Radishes & other folks:
(Caveat to all points is that I'm only look at people in relation to Radishes. Obviously anyone who looks great in relation to him can still be a member of the other team)
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:12 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:08 am
Master Radishes, this is our first game together since the champs finale of 2015. I think you're the only one from that game I've ever been in a game with since (i.e. right now). It brings a tear to me aged old eye.
Let's spend the entire game annoyingly reminiscing like two old people.
OT banter with the Jay. Nothing from this, but other game progressions paint Jay very favorably in relation to the Radish man.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:08 pm
Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:39 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:10 am
Actually, all your words are washing over me. I'm taking nothing in.
One time on my home forum I spent the entire first round just gif-posting a handful of times and not engaging in the game at all because I was busy. I got myself mislynched D1. But before I went, I made a final serious post in which I named the entire scum team.
Sometimes looking at something from the corner of your eye allows you to see more. /deep thoughts
Scum tbqh
You jelly there's another root veg in town? Don't worry, the game's big enough for both of us.
Some vegetable-on-vegetable aggression. Good look for TH on both ends of this exchange, imo. One point for calling out radishes early, another point for Radishes' stiff, forced-casual response.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:28 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:27 pm
So much text. I can't wait until most of us die. But also I love you all. And also also hi to the, I think, three players I haven't played with before. Apart from that I have at least some idea or a lot of ideas about the others.
Hi.
Salutations @ Dyslexicon. Okay.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:44 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:29 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:28 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:27 pm
So much text. I can't wait until most of us die. But also I love you all. And also also hi to the, I think, three players I haven't played with before. Apart from that I have at least some idea or a lot of ideas about the others.
Hi.
Wait. Let's make that four. I'm sure I've seen your name around here and probably at MU (?)
Glad my celebrity status precedes me.
There's no reason this exchange can't exist between teammates, but I'm not inclined to see it that way. Very slight townie point for Dizzy.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:50 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:48 pm
Regarding strong reads, I think civs need to be hyper aggressive this game becasue of this:
Hosts with the most said:
Ghosts
When a player dies, their ghost remains in the thread for three more phases. A ghost may post on-topic thrice-twice-once, in successive phases, in dead-red text. A ghost can claim its Win Condition.
Have you ever had that moment in a game, right after you died, when suddenly, it was all clear. Yeah, we all have. The baddies are gonna have to try harder to be blendy this game becasue of this, not be over aggressive, becasue it's gonna be harder for them to blow off a mislynch with the victim still in the thread. It's gonna be harder for them to just NK people who get up in their grilles if the victim is still in the thread.
I am always a pretty aggressive civ, but I tend to try to hold reads close to the vest becasue I don't want to paint targets on civs or give a baddie the heads up that they are under suspicion; sometimes I like to watch and draw them out, to see if they slip. But I think this is the game for full reads.
I want to see how the Zero poll plays out. Right now I like Nanook, I like sig, I like Nutella. I don't dislike Jules, TH, Jay, or Ted. I am not feeling Chuck so much or Sloonei. Sloonei getting all aggressive with sig rubs me the wrong way, becasue this is something I seem to recall seeing Sloonei doing fairly often, getting in sigs face. It's an easy stance for Sloonei to fall into. My thoughts on Chuck are wrapped up in his poll vote
Most everyone else is gray for me, or someone I am actively waffling about like Jack or G Man. I know G Man is hiding from G Woman, which I know was always a thing with him, but what little he wrote, meh. So him and Jack aren't really grey, but I could go either way. Some of the gray people, like Epi, Mac, and Tranq, are people I like to sort early, but it's Zero, so
I don't think I played with Michelle before; I did play with Dyslexicon, but not enough to have a basis of comparison.
I also see that Dom, Colin, Dragomir and Sabie have not checked in yet.
What am I to you, a turnip?
It looks like SVS left Radishes out of a big long post in which she mentions most everyone else, and Radishes points this out. This in itself is a slightly good look for SVS (the omission appears to be a genuine mistake, which is less likely to happen if they're partners), but I'll also note that SVS was one of three folks (along with Jay and I) to vote for Radishes on both Days 1 & 2. So I feel good about her.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:53 pm
This is two posts from SVS now that have felt like they could be written by a scum. Not that they are, just that they could be.
Alright yeah svs is not on this team. Skipping all future interactions to save time unless something reallllly catches my eye.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:29 pm
sig wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:28 pm
Can anyone give me a run down of Radishes Meta?
Nope, no one can. Half have never played with me, half have only played one game, and only Nook has played two games.
I'm an enigma to you.
sig's one post and subsequent eruption at the end of this last phase have me feeling very strongly that he is a civilian, but if I look at this post in a vacuum I can see room to suspect something here. The meta request is standard, a nice touch between partners to sow soft distancing seeds. Radishes' response is goofy and playful in a way that would feed into that idea. I do not need to read this exchange in that light, but I can see it and it doesn't strike me as outlandish.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:37 pm
This post caught my eye.
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:55 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:26 pm
Independent of all this: how do we all feel about master radishes?
Not great. I get the feeling that his presence is a bit flashy/comes across as performative. It's something I've seen with experienced players that they want to be a bit edgy/go against the grain give the impression that they are confident and have nothing to hide when they are scum. Compensating. Like when they asked "are we all seriously reading into ice cream flavors" (<-- from memory, might not be exact) or something like that. I don't know if I explain this right, but "performative" is what comes to mind and it feels not great.
I get what you mean about this completely; you're just misinterpreting where the 'performative' bit (maybe not the right word - more like adopting a persona?) comes from. I'm playing in a game with a bunch of people I don't know but who know each other, but have the confidence to 'go against the grain' as you say, as this isn't my first rodeo. I'm not consciously adopting a persona (okay, that was also the wrong phrase) but, yeah, my internet/mafia style tends towards dismissive and sarcastic in the early stages of games, especially on sites I'm not familiar with.
I singled this post out as well, though, because the thought process to me seems good. It's easy for scum looking to slip onto a wagon to pile on me today (I'm the third, less noticed wheel) but this isn't the way a scum would do it. This is an actual attempt to parse my behaviour.
I'm hesitant to declare anyone a green read in a multiball game where I don't know anyone's meta, but so far Dizzy (you gave permission!) is nudging upwards the most in my books with this thought process and general solid enough play.
Good look for dizzy. This is one of the first posts that really started to sell me on Radishes. His response to Dizzy's pressure is sheepish, almost apologetic. It has the look of a player who knows he's been caught and is trying to spin the case in another direction. This point alone is almost enough to make me dismiss Dyslexicon as a potential teammate.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:12 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:09 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:06 pm
Yeah, okay, I don't have the time or will to slog through the thread again. Just...give me someone(s) to ISO or summat.
Sloonei and Ted pops into my head as interesting ISOs for what it's worth.
Okie dokie.
Pre-ISO impressions:
Ted - liked his opening; I'd lean towards saying it's townie, with the caveat of a scum working hard to find the other team
Sloonei - when initially catching up on opening posts, I felt good about him; as I interacted with him in real time, I wasn't sure why; he feels quite reserved and prone to asking questions rather than help scumhunt - maybe that's his meta?
Abstaining from analyzing myself in this exercise, of course. Focusing squarely on ted instead I could see room for a partnership here. He offers some tentative support before walking it back a little due to multiball. It's the sort of throat-clearing non-read I might expect from a mafia member straining not to say the wrong thing about their partner.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:15 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:11 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:43 pm
I've not played a game with multiple mafia teams in...at least 6 years?
Everytime I get a thought about a player I have to add a caveat to it. I don't like so many caveated thoughts.
I’d like to hear those thoughts, caveats and all
The caveats are pretty much the same caveat, e.g. 'Player X seems to be working hard to solve the game; this is a good look for them...except if they're just on scum team 1 and are looking for scum team 2.'
Ted and Sig pop into mind when I think of this.
Another example: normally I'd say Turnip's vote on me feels natural enough, as he hinted at it in earlier posts; but then again, if he's Scum A who wants to slip onto a non-leading wagon he thinks could be Scum B, then he's played it exactly right.
Radishes names sig, ted, and turnip as players who fit the mold of "potential scum who are actually hunting for the other teams", for some reason. I wish I'd asked him to explain why those names in particular stood out to him. Either way, two of those names have already collected (slight) negative points from me in this exercise, and the third has collected a (moderate) plus point. If we follow the silly rule that 1 player in any group of 3+ named by a mafia member is their partner, then I'd pick ted out of this bunch, but that's based on the reads I have independent of the present exercise.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:19 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:15 pm
I also don't get Jack's so sure read on you. Is that normal for Jack, anyone? I seem to remember a more tempered town!Jack.
In my single game (Inception, a few months ago) Jack looked like he was
trying to play like he is now, but without being too noticeable. He was scum in that game, so in retrospect I feel like he was trying to imitate his town game as he perceives it.
This makes me hesitate to vote Jack right now, as much as his overall play has been a bit questionable.
Null on Dizzy. +1 for Jack.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:34 pm
@Dyslexicon
ISO on Ted in some random order:
(There's no specific post that I find particularly AI, so I won't quote anything, but...)
-He bounces his reads around a bit (claims his page 2 reads based on 'swag' are serious, but never comes back to it; suddenly drops a vote on Nutella and only gives a reason for it later; then switches to vote me, again without justification), but doesn't try to justify his progression. Maybe a bouncy scum, but I get the impression he just doesn't care how he comes across. Good look.
-His tone is consistent - loose and carefree and not afraid to be a bit fun, but easily switches back to serious gameplay when necessary. Another good look of someone who isn't worried about how they come across.
-He isn't trying to stand out or lead a charge or anything, but equally isn't afraid to engage in discussions, even ones that don't involve him. No waffling on reads, just straight to the point. Also something I consider a good look.
Overall, ISOing Ted has made me nudge him from null+ to a lightish green. Macro play is decent so far, in the sense he doesn't seem concerned about his image.
Ted ISO. The first paragraph has a little bit of the awkward "I'm analyzing my teammate and trying to walk a fine line" feel, but the rest isn't objectionable. I could see this reflecting a genuine effort to read a player.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:36 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:30 pm
I'm really not sure how I feel about Jimmaaay. He seems kind of controlled or something, which is possibly oof. ButwhatdoIknownothing.
I sort of liked his play from what I'd noticed, but his vote on me is very wagony.
Jay is not on this team.
Dizzy is not on this team
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:34 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:24 pm
We should wagon Dom as well.
[VOTE:
Dom] aubergine
Eh, I liked Dom's limited posts. They seem to fit the little I know of town!Dom.
Soft defense of Dom. Not a great look.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:36 pm
What about TSP? He's done nothing.
Linki: Oh, Sloonei has that thought too.
Unprompted "what about TSP?" Good look for tony.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:37 pm
Nah, nevermind, I don't like going after LHF.
I dunno. I hate D1s.
Immediately walks it back. I don't know if this says more about Tony or Radishes. The Tony perspective is that Radishes wanted to throw empty shade at his partner for posterity's sake, but backed off when he saw another player (me) also naming said partner at the same time. The Radishes perspective is that he reconsidering the optics of the position he just put himself in and wants to reverse course. I do not struggle to believe either of those cases, but I think they are partially exclusive. Hm.
Mac is not on this team, but we already knew that.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:13 pm
Actually I'm not going to bother finding the posts and quoting them. Sloonei and juliets, my response:
Idk what exactly juliets said to him that required a response, but I'll throw a slight townie point her way for this limp response since it's conjoined with me and I think the limpness was twofold.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:22 pm
And Juliets, I did read your ISO of me. Obviously I think you've read me better than anyone else so far, but of course I'm biased there. It is, however, a lot of work for a scum to do - you could easily have hopped on the wagon and/or thrown out a casual 'eh I don't get it' instead, but you didn't. It's a good look on you, in my eyes, regardless of the subject matter.
Context would suggest that this is a somewhat exasperated response to some pestering from juliets (I vaguely remember that happening), which would be another good look for juliets (acknowledging that I'm apparently only looking at one half of an exchange here). I think this is a continuation of the above post. But the response looks like he was trying to avoid juliets, or at least not actively seeking her out, which prompted her to hound him. If they're teammates this whole thing doesn't exist.
nutella wagon analysis. My takeways:
sabie looks the worst. In one paragraph Radishes frames hers as one of the less-bad votes on the Day 1 nutella wagon ("H, Epi, and Dom gave no reasons, whilst Sig and Sabie gave lacklustre reasons."), but in the next paragraph he singles her out as his "GTH vote" out of all the options ("I’m not entirely sure where I’d place a vote, but GTH I’d say Sabie.). He immediately follows this by singling out Mac, for the second time in as many paragraphs, as looking particularly bad. Mac is Radishes' main target here and the whole thing is designed to paint him unfavorably. The suggestion of a vote on sabie is weak and arbitrary (this post also marks her first mention anywhere in his ISO, I think). The other names he frames negatively are Turnip, Epi, Dom, and kinda sig. Jack seems to be treated most favorably as the originator of the nutella wagon, an analysis that I agree with (I have to remind myself here that some of Radishes' work is honest. That's a wrinkle I keep forgetting about.). I'm a bit surprised that this is the third time in this exercise that I've been pinged by sig's presence. Coming into this, sig felt like a slam dunk civilian.
Mac ain't on this team. I doubt TH is. Epi and Dom are just sort of incidentally here and I can't get much out of it. sig is separated from the main class as having given a "lacluster" reason to vote nutella, as opposed to "no reason". My opinion is that sabie looks bad, but I might be getting tunnel vision there and I'm open to alternate opinions.
(I'll note here that I believe TH and Dizzy were among the first, along with moi, to call out Radishes for analyzing nutella's wagon before his own. Good look for them if I'm remembering correctly.)
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:58 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:11 am
Master Radishes, I know you said it is hard to pick the most suspicious vote for nutella but in your opinion it is sabie. Is there something specific you saw there that causes you to pick her? I have trouble reading her at this point in a game so would like to know what you saw. My apologies if you've answered this somewhere and I missed it.
All nute voters except Jack have the potential to be scum joining the wagon, IMO. I felt that as per given justification, sig's was the poorest, but since I've actually felt his play overall has been solid, then sabie comes in second, since she was a clear hop-on towards the 'end' of the wagon (not that we knew it would be the end, of course). Dom fits there too, but I've liked his play, at least based on my single-game meta of Dom from Inception. I don't know what to think of TH yet, I've expressed my conflicted feelings about Mac, and Epi I'm giving the benefit of the doubt because he sort of strikes me as the type to vote without saying why when town.
So somewhat by PoE but also positioning within wagon, I'd give sabie the side-eye first.
As others have pointed out, this is an unusual wagon to analyse, though, so I'm hesitant to commit to any such read. We need more from her first.
I may or may not be suffering from full-blown tunnel vision now, but: juliets asks Radishes to elaborate on why he singled sabie out (good look for juliets) among the nutella voters. Radishes offers a brief justification, but then sandwiches that between a lot of shade at everybody else on the wagon. Radishes has had very little (almost nothing) to say about sabie in these two posts, but has devoted a lot more energy to shading others. The "GTH vote" thing on sabie looks like it was supposed to be distancing, with the actual content of this post skewing others as bad instead. I don't think sabie looks good here.
He finally gets around to analyzing his own wagon
here. My takeaways:
I escape unscathed along with Dizzy and SVS. I'm inclined to read this as Radishes not wanting to provoke the three of us any further.
He gives ted a pass, which is a bit worrying in conjunction with his previous treatment of the xter. Turnip Head and Jay get the harshest criticism here. I've already dismissed Jay as being a potential teammate and I'm about ready to do the same for TH.
Michelle is incidentally here. I'll call that a negative look for the sake of offering a read. He brushes over her without much care.
"Definite scum lean" after ISOing TH. Yeah, this is not a devious pair of vegetables.
Michelle ISO (why did I switch from quotes to URL links?)
I might be inclined to say this looks like a sincere effort to read Michelle, and not a hand-waving teammate defense. The middle paragraph regarding Michelle's treatment of nutella reads as particularly nuanced in a way that reflects genuine thought.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:32 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:07 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:03 pm
Of the present multi-vote wagons (Colin, Mac, Radish) I think Radish is the best lynch.
I am inclined to agree with this. Tonally I do feel like Radishes is playing a similar game to Inception. Also, question for him or for the thread, but when he ISO’d a bunch of people nobody else was talking about, why did he pick those people? Was it prompted?
They were the wagon voters on me last round, ergo potential scum slots.
If I sound similar to Inception, are you saying I'm 3P again?
Quick exchange with Colin.
I'm back to using quotes, look at that. I could see this as a casual attempt at distancing. Colin comes out of the woodwork to "agree" with a conditional Radishes suspicion, then asks Radishes a somewhat inconsequential question about his activity, which Radishes promptly answers. The whole thing could very easily be staged to make it seem like Colin A) is down to lynch the vegetable and B) they aren't overly familiar with one another. Actually the question from Colin in conjunction with the support of a Radish lynch might even suggest as much (Colin is missing a prominent detail from Radishes' activity, but says he's okay lynching him anyway), but I'm hesitant to commit to that read given my lousy track record of suspecting Colin for goofy shit. Slight negative look for him, but I'm gun-shy about it. Someone else look at this for me please.
Big late anti-ted post 
If this had happened earlier I'd say this is a strong point against ted being on this team. I still think I'm inclined to say this is a point in that direction, but I have to walk that back a little behind a layer of wifom: Radishes and his teammates have to recognize at this stage that he's at risk to be lynched, so some deliberate distancing would presumably be on the table. There's no reason this can't be that. But I have to also consider that Radishes is genuinely looking for scum so that he can push alternative lynches to his own, so... gun to my head I'll stick with this being a good look for ted. My head is spinning. Thank god I'm nearing the end.
A big shrug of a Colin ISO. I maintain a dose of skepticism about Colin here, as Radishes doesn't really say anything too meaningful here and comes out with a "town lean" on Colin. I could see it as a teammate trying to sow seeds of confusion for doofuses like me down the road, or I could see it as an earnest read. Tacking another slight negative onto Colin, I guess. I am running out of steam right as these posts are being shrouded in three additional layers of WIFOM.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:26 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:16 am
How convinced is everyone that Nanook came back in green slot?
I'm letting this sit in the back of my mind. I do feel Nook's playing a bit differently, but there could be a few reasons for that. Also, despite this being my third game with him, we've not played more than, I think, 3 or 4 rounds together due to our various demises.
+1 nanook 2.0
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:30 am
I kind of wanted to do ISOs of Sabie, Dom, and Mac for their votes on nutella, but I also kind of wanted to spend my weekend with my wife.
I also think one of my perpetual cling-ons, e.g. Sloonei, Dizzy, SVS, are likely scum riding the wave of anti-Radishism this game, knowing they won't get blowback for it and/or thinking I'm on scum team B. But looking there is lower priority at the moment.
Throws a lot of names out without doing much about it. sabie, dom, and mac are wannabe iso targets. Me, Dizzy, SVS are potential scum "riding the wave". I think the bottom paragraph constitutes an earnest read from Radishes given that I've dismissed SVS and Dizzy as potential partners. The top paragraph and its three names amounts to absolutely nothing. He's dreaming of having something to say about those tree players. Blah. Mac is not on his team. sabie might be the #1 teammate candidate based on this massive exercise. Dom has been on the fringes a couple times with no major mentions, which is a bit conspicuous.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:11 pm
@Ted - not going to go re-quote everything, because I think Nook already expressed what I had been trying to say. I think we were mis-communicating with each other re: Inception!Mac and derpclears. I misunderstood you a bit at first.
Still, I don't agree with your takes, and your confident tone came across to me as TMI about Mac's alignment. I can see you don't filter, so maybe that accounts for it? But I don't find your reasons for townreading Mac convincing.
I'm out of steam. I'll end this here unless I see something glaring in the remaining posts. Idk what to do with ted here. He's been the biggest rollercoaster in here, though he hasn't really been a prominent figure by any means.
Ugh fuck man, come on.
Radishes drops a rainbow on us and I'm not gonna touch it at all right now, but I think it's important to look at so I'll leave it here and come back to it later. How much is WIFOM, how much is earnest? I don't know, I'm not gonna think about it for now.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:53 pm
[VOTE:
Turnip Head] aubergine
Not feeling the Jack or G-man wagons.
Will check in later.
Votes for turnip head and bounces. He's "not feeling" the Jack or G-man wagons. Outside of the above-mentioned rainbow, in which G-man was given the non-entity treatment, this is the first and only mention of G-man in Radishes' ISO. That is conspicuous. I guess I'll subtract a point from Jack to be fair as well, but I'm feeling less inspired to look in that direction for a partnership. There is something buried way up there that was a good point for Jack, and there's my overall unrelated townread on Jack.
Sweet merciful crap, it's over! That was over an hour and a half of analysis with new and unfamiliar wrinkles. Uh. Major takeaways time!
Definitely not Radishes' partner
Jay
Turnip Head
Dyslexicon
Mac
SVS
Probably not Radishes' partner
juliets
Jack
Michelle
Nanook
Incidentally present
Epi
Dom
Mildly suspicious/conflicting viewpoints/confusing
Colin
tedxtr
Tony
sig
Compatible partner with Radishes
sabie
I think he's bad but he's conspicuously absent
G-man
Absent or overlooked
sprityo
dragomir
tranq
speedchuck
(all of this group appears in the gray pile of his rainbow, which I skipped)
the linki is even longer than this post
