Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

There’s a bus driver, talking about vig targets is bad

[TonyStarkPrime]

There’s a bus driver, talking about vig targets is bad

Me and Jack both made the same mistake of thinking that role was either town or dead. I have since apologized for my errors.

DONT TRY TO SHOOT SIG

[TonyStarkPrime]

There’s a bus driver, talking about vig targets is bad

Me and Jack both made the same mistake of thinking that role was either town or dead. I have since apologized for my errors.

DONT TRY TO SHOOT SIG

Actually I don’t know exactly what Jack thought but presumably it was one of those

[Jackofhearts2005]

Yeah, when you were like “Oh yeah, really don’t shoot Sig” I went back and checked the roles, saw the reflector and was about to be like “yeah definitely don’t shoot Sig” and then I was like “oh wait but he got votes.” Forgot it was that role who died.

[Michelle]

There’s a bus driver, talking about vig targets is bad

good point

[Michelle]

voted for Lurch ^^

Some wagonomics may help, I will try on pc later to think at them. On phone is a pain...

[JaggedJimmyJay]

remarkable

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Ima do what I did last time: review everyone's posts about Mac. I should have time for that tonight. Someone else needs to get in there and assess business from the Mac side. Hi Sloonei.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Maybe my reads are actually good this game tbh

[JaggedJimmyJay]

How did people treat MacDougall

ColinIsCool

Spoiler: show

Of the present multi-vote wagons (Colin, Mac, Radish) I think Radish is the best lynch.

I am inclined to agree with this. Tonally I do feel like Radishes is playing a similar game to Inception. Also, question for him or for the thread, but when he ISO’d a bunch of people nobody else was talking about, why did he pick those people? Was it prompted?

Yeah okay. Enjoy your Mac free paradise Dom. Typical shit.

What the fuck is this?

You know exactly what this is.

No seriously, what is this? Is angry!Mac a thing? Never seen it before.

It is definitely a thing

Cause town has perverse incentive to cooperate with scum that have good SRs on the opposite team, so you see mac as doing that and think it’s a townie mindset

Would be my guess anyways

I really really really really dislike his flip flop on how he read me and Nutella. He declared me a wolf and Nutella one we should follow after the two of us started battling. Then like 12 hours later, I was town and Nutella was scum because I read her perfectly.

His argument for Nutella being scum exists in its entirety at the time he expressed a strong townread on her. His read change does not come from a town perspective. It comes from a scum perspective mimicking townplay, ie trusting Jack's Nutella read.

Why would baddie Mac express a strong townread on nutella and then flip flop just as soon? Why would a bad guy do that? It's a townie maneuever, just like your exact opposite flip flop was (I assume) townie.

More inclined to believe this than to believe Mac is scum, right now

Not to make everything about me but I am pretty pinged by the moment everybody moved off me and jumped onto Mac or whatever. Feels fishy, independent of Mac’s flip

Not to make everything about me but I am pretty pinged by the moment everybody moved off me and jumped onto Mac or whatever. Feels fishy, independent of Mac’s flip

although I guess “everybody” just means NANOOK and Dom, I don’t remember if there were more.

expand

I wasn't around when it happened, but it felt like it all just vanished and quickly. I didn't even do anything to address the concerns people had of me other than say I was leaving the thread for a while so I don't see why people would have moved their votes off of me if they truly think I'm a bad dude

Would lynch based on Radishes flip: sabie, Jack

Would not lynch based on Radishes flip: Sloonei, Jay, Mac

I’m leery of Dom. A lot of his posts seem to be making points/arguments that expose someone’s bad logic but are not actual scumhunting. This in tandem with his tendency to just say “you’re scum” to people, in place of a crafted argument, gives me heeby jeebies. It is entirely possible I’m projecting because I butted heads with him so I’d like others to check him out.

Basically I’m mindmelding pretty hard with the rainbow list Mac made earlier this phase. The biggest exception is that I don’t scumread sprit, BUT ... Mac is historically great at reading sprit and I think they both would say that so there might be merit there.

I pulled up these two posts to respond to them but never did while I was catching up. A minor colin gripe:

Would lynch based on Radishes flip: sabie, Jack

Would not lynch based on Radishes flip: Sloonei, Jay, Mac

I’m leery of Dom. A lot of his posts seem to be making points/arguments that expose someone’s bad logic but are not actual scumhunting. This in tandem with his tendency to just say “you’re scum” to people, in place of a crafted argument, gives me heeby jeebies. It is entirely possible I’m projecting because I butted heads with him so I’d like others to check him out.

"Would not lynch" is language for a 1-scum-team game. It's forgivable if Colin simply reverted back to normal habits here, but the word choice caught my eye and I want to highlight it. I agree with the assessment that Jay and Mac (and me) are not likely to be on Radishes' team, but that's not the same as saying I "would not lynch" either of the other two. I probably won't vote to lynch myself today.

This is a good enough point that I wondered if I was, in fact, scum, but it’s just me being imprecise with language. What I should have said was “Based on how Radishes’ lynch went down, these are not his teammates” and not “would not lynch” because the latter implies an ultimate townread when in reality it’s not.

Does anyone have anything to say about Tranq's contributions? They seem like your common scum slank style play.

Agreed

Lest I encourage bad behavior, I want to point out that Dom gets more emotional as a townie and I need some smart sounding reads right now for my own ego.

I hate to tell you that this isn't true.


But he's saying what my point against Colin has been from day 1. Colin's participation only increases when his team tells him he's in hot water.

I talk more when I have something to say.
When people are talking to me or asking me questions, I have more things to say.
I get it if people agree with you/Mac/etc but my activity is and forever will be NAI these days and a lot of y’all should know better.

Honestly I don’t even super buy the slip business, but....I also don’t mind sig dying today

This is where I’m at. Sig says stuff that makes no sense to me all the time. I think his Mac theorizing is more him getting carried away and going down that rabbit hole, than it is a genuine slip. But the interactive reports on Sabie and Radishes are compelling. Not opposed to his lynch.

Lest I encourage bad behavior, I want to point out that Dom gets more emotional as a townie and I need some smart sounding reads right now for my own ego.

I hate to tell you that this isn't true.


But he's saying what my point against Colin has been from day 1. Colin's participation only increases when his team tells him he's in hot water.

I talk more when I have something to say.
When people are talking to me or asking me questions, I have more things to say.
I get it if people agree with you/Mac/etc but my activity is and forever will be NAI these days and a lot of y’all should know better.

What’s the single most compelling point about either sig or mac that you have seen?

For sig it is the interactive read that I think you made re: him and sabie.

For Mac, I don’t think I’ve been persuaded by any point yet. It’s true that he’s mostly been extremely defensive up to this point but I don’t think that’s indicative of scum Mac. TBH if I had to pick something it would be him buddying me early on and seemingly changing his mind on me as a possible deflection, but. I don’t want to lynch Mac.

I've had a suspicion of Sig since D1, before the whole slip biz. I really don't care much whether he or Mac get sacked first.

What’s your beef with Mac based on?

I guess that question (why Mac?) is for the thread if anybody else wants to share.

I guess that question (why Mac?) is for the thread if anybody else wants to share.

1) Mac has flipped his reads with zero progression
2) Sig accidentally claimed a failed nightkill on Mac, who would not have been protected by the town, pointing to Mac being the bulletproof wolf on the Master’s team.
3) Several players are defending Mac or pressing for alternative lynched to Mac. If Mac is a wolf, he has three teammates.

If I had to rank these I would say 2 > 1 > 3 as good reasons. In particular I don’t see why people defending Mac in and of itself makes him scummy. That’s operating as if Mac has been proven to be scum, in order to prove that he’s scum.

There's a lot here, and I feel next to nothing reading it. Colin was pro-Mac consistently -- that's not an automatic problem. I am reminded though of the way juliets treated Radish (I think she was just wrong), and Colin's commentary doesn't inspire the same confidence in me. The posts exist. He didn't provide a reason for supporting Mac until Night 2 with the rainbow list mindmeld and assessment of the Radish lynch. This stuff doesn't make me want to set Colin on fire, but I have no credit to award either. They're compatible enough.

Compatibility: Decent

Dom

Spoiler: show

Domwolf

I can see Mac has decided to not take this game seriously

Really though Mac, I draw zero inspiration from calling you an orange boy given that you've done nothing. Show me that I don't have to default.

In due time you sexy voiced man. If you can help me by giving me an outline of your current thoughts that might give me something to chew on. I am a very busy boy sadly so I'm probably gonna be less dog with a bone than most are acquainted with.

Mac is a dog confirmed

Probably also a bounty hunter

what the fuck does this mean?

sprit, glad to see you too.

Mac and nutella seem to be pissed to be playing with me, but that's their MO.

Btw Jack is always right about Nutella. It's canon. So either he's town and she's wolf or he's wolf and she's wolf, or he's wolf and she's town. But one of them is always a wolf so we should lynch Nutella.

This is nothing pretending to be something.
This boils down to this is not civ v civ.

Under duress when immediately forced to observe it and then lolkekked his vote to a wagon that has 0% chance of ever forming.

Nutella
Jay
Radishes

Teammates.

And you are on the other team then, I presume?

This actually isn't nuts.

I was toying with voting mac right before he appeared, now if I do so it'll look like omgus lmao.

Mac do better pls.

Would a civilian nutella care how it looks?

A civilian nutella does. A civilian nutella might do it anyway if mac's pattern of behavior continues.

A civillian nutella does what she wants and takes no prisoners.

@Michelle and @Dom probably should have the same read as me on this.

I don't remember what you're talking about. I'll need more.

These sound like the musings of someone who is only reading posts about themselves, is that a fair assessment?

No.
You're on some special bullshit, though.

You are dealing with two coffee Mac. God-like being.

And he thinks he just avoided accountability for the question I asked earlier.
Answer it.

Mac, I once again am asking you to clarify why you wanted someone you claim is baddie (me) to corroborate a piece of evidence for you.

There are many more posts that I could include in that spoiler. I don't think it's necessary. This will show you the beginnings of Dom's read on Mac as it quickly turned south and stayed south. Throughout their interaction I think Dom looks like someone who is legitimately hounding a suspect, getting pissed when he doesn't feel his perspective is getting proper notice, and leaving his foot on the gas in the face of every protest. I don't get any distancing impressions from Dom.

Compatibility: Low

Dragomir / nutella 2

Spoiler: show

Hey bitches I'm back in the land of the living!!

After that eod i am thinking I may have been wrong about mac and I have liked his engagement/analysis since. He could still be on the non radishes team and be genuinely hunting,but with how the votes stayed in him like that it seems unlikely.

I agree with the assessments that gman and sabie look like radish teammates. Sprit's vote was also quiiiiite bad but I town read him otherwise so more hesitant to make a hard and fast judgment there.

I would have to be super, super wrong about Jack for him to be bad.

Ditto. I’m open to the possibility, and I hope to ISO him myself soon, but I can’t bring myself to shake off my town read.

I keep noticing you earnestly replying to drivel you should be ignoring or eviscerating and I think I've caught you this way before.

L o v e T h i s

Like... That post and a handful of others-- I've started to see the Mac mindmelds I've been waiting for.

juliets jack did in fact mean that literally, that mac's chances of being scum are only half of what they were, because he's clearly not on the radish team.

Jack and Sprityo are both super compatible imo

Any ideas for the other team tho? Or no bc you're on it?

Mac's entire response to people has just reeked.

His team utilized the strong man kill in case he was lynched today.

It's just a janitor not a strongman unless I am missing something

Convince me on tranq and michelle. I feel nothing about the former and townread the latter (though less so than before as I haven't seen much from her lately)

I can't remember why I thought tranq was bad. I probably was just piggy backing someone elses suspicions. Michelle is just not on her meta.

As the resident expert on her meta i thought she was on it early game but has definitely fallen off, so I could be persuaded. Though at this time I still doubt I'd vote for her this phase, i have other priorities. Things can change though.

Mac's entire response to people has just reeked.

His team utilized the strong man kill in case he was lynched today.

It's just a janitor not a strongman unless I am missing something

My mistake, but point still stands they wanted it gone.

Yeah, this does lend credence to your theory that Mac is exactly Saitama. There's always the "but that's what they want you to think" argument, but given how so few people paid/drew attention to your theory and given how Mac plays, i think it's fairly likely it's just true.

[VOTE: mac] aubergine for now. I wanted to reconsider from how he played yesterday, but I know he's capable of doing that to wriggle his way out of a lynch as scum, and he's very capable of being manipulative and imitating his town game out of desperation.

Worst case Mac isn't mafia we have one mislynch.

BUT say we don't lynch him and let him keep rolling along, they'll keep killing civs and eventually we won't be able to win at all. This is when we still have a margin of error.

More importantly there are 2 roles Sprityo has at this point. If Mac isn't mafia (Very slim chance) Then Sprityo is one of the last members of Anti-Monitors. Potentially last since I still think it's possible Dizzy was mafia.

I mean Sprityo is definitely mafia, so you can go ahead and lynch me and flip that fool afterwards. I am comfortable with death at this point.

Yeah because you used your role LMAO


Oopsie

The irony of this all is that you're gonna wagon me to near death within an hour of the day starting, but by the day's end we'll lynch someone else. You'll see.

Ok Jack.

Oh gee guys we've got two scumflips to work through! I know! Let's lynch exactly the only player who literally cannot be teammates with either of them!

Yeah duh we don't want your team to skate to the end because we only focused on the other one.


Guys we got him.

I don't understand any of this. "Janitor", how this proves Mac is bad, any of it.

I feel ignorant. Can someone explain this to me like I'm an ignoramus cause obviously I am.

Read the saitama role.

I don't understand any of this. "Janitor", how this proves Mac is bad, any of it.

I feel ignorant. Can someone explain this to me like I'm an ignoramus cause obviously I am.

Basically saitama has a one time janitor (hides flip) which was clearly used on dizzy (otherwise default is roles flip, i know yours not used to that). The theory is mac is saitama and used his one time ability bc he is in danger of being lynched. And it just adds to sig's pre-existing theory that Mac one-posted him.

I don't understand any of this. "Janitor", how this proves Mac is bad, any of it.

I feel ignorant. Can someone explain this to me like I'm an ignoramus cause obviously I am.

Basically saitama has a one time janitor (hides flip) which was clearly used on dizzy (otherwise default is roles flip, i know yours not used to that). The theory is mac is saitama and used his one time ability bc he is in danger of being lynched. And it just adds to sig's pre-existing theory that Mac one-posted him.

I'm not one for NKA but why would I kill dyslexicon?

Why not? They were a common townread and a force in the thread.

Uh, but the prevailing argument is that you're on the radish/sabie team, not the team that killed dizzy.

I still haven't sorted out if i buy that though, but I have seen some points worth noting (like the one epi made about sabie). I definitely prioritize mac over you, and if i had to identify a radishsabie teammate I'd probably name gman or maybe sprityo first. But you're definitely not off the hook.

Neither is epi for that matter though and he could be trying to paint you as bad with his teammate sabie.

Epi is like idk my 5th to 8th highest scumread. He’s not even really on the menu. I’d rather get GMan or Mac.

Yeah, agreed

And with him going hard after Mac who likely is bad on the other team, will net him a pelt and some credit.

Yeah I'm turning around fast on sig.

And with him going hard after Mac who likely is bad on the other team, will net him a pelt and some credit.

Yeah I'm turning around fast on sig.

Fuck yeah let's do it. [VOTE: sig] aubergine

Holy shit I really have to make this decision. I have to listen to Wolf A telling me to lynch Wolf B, or listen to Wolf B telling me to lynch Wolf A.


Fuckin multiball, man.

Also G-Man is the fool's wagon imo. It's gonna be Mac vs Sig.

And by extension how bad it is that Mac is for realzies voting him?

I'm still probably staying on Mac bc I have more consistently backed up reasons on him, whereas I just 180ed on sig and should probably second guess that. But honestly I feel so free, as if I put on new glasses and was able to see the dark truth of someone I had squirreled away as a top townread.

This is the weirdest situation I've ever found myself in. I feel like I'm being gaslighted.

How and by whom?

No matter what I say or do sig, Dom, Nanook, Jack, Sprityo and you are just constantly repeating that I am bad and some of you are layering it with personally attacking me and I'm just super confused and starting to not enjoy myself. I'm used to having to defend myself but this is truly obscene.

I'm excited and kind of tunneling because of it. You know how that is. I am still reading your posts and trying to be reasonable. Like I said I thought you looked good around/after eod yesterday, so maybe I'm overblowing sig's theory. Keep doing your thing.

Mac is bad because Mac isn't his usual self
Mac is bad because mac is salty
Mac is bad because mac is voting sig
Mac is bad because mac is what?
Mac is toxic.
Mac is attacking people.
Oh gee how bad is it that Mac has legs.
Did you guys notice Mac has arms? Fucking gotem.
Mac has a beard. That's awfully suspicious, don't you think?
Mac isn't a dog. By deduction he is Mafia.
Mac is an abstract concept, pretty much a red peek.
It's fucking ridiculous.

Literally none of this has anything to do with why I'm voting you. I think you're mafia. Fair and square. That's the game. Sorry champ, it be like that sometimes.

I do think dom at the least has been a bit unfair and perhaps toxic.

But otherwise this is a misrepresentation. You are being suspected for entirely game related reasons. Take it like a champ, fight back, hunt.

By comparison jack your flip on Nutella Day 1 doesn't look natural, it looks designed

I disagree. Hard. I believe mac's progression was way more unnatural. Jack's was based on my content and his smart gut. Mac will argue that his was too, but I don't know how you view his as natural.

I have been calling TH one of my top townreads on gut, but I can't deny they're compatible with mac

I have been calling TH one of my top townreads on gut, but I can't deny they're compatible with mac

Aaaand ditto for juliets.

I stopped short here as well. You can see the development of nutella's read from the moment she occupied Drago's body onward. I think judgment of nutella can be reduced to two core questions or points: 1) did she flip her read on Mac when she came back to life for nefarious reasons and 2) did she vote for sig to protect Mac? I am inclined to answer both questions with no. I get no impression from nutella's content that she was interested in keeping Mac alive. Indeed, when she started by exploring the possibility of a civilian Mac, she dropped that soon after and returned to hardball. That's not the kind of progression I'd anticipate from a teammate. I suspect nutella would be more inclined to just pick a lane. I won't exonerate her entirely on the basis of the aforementioned points. I doubt she's Mac's teammate.

Compatibility: Minor

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Inb4 I get “decent equity”

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Inb4 I get “decent equity”

I promise not to use that stupid facking word

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

It’s my favorite terrible mafia word tbh

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epignosis

Spoiler: show

Confirmation that Jay is Radishes teammate

Eh?

Jay made readslist.

I copied it and replaced my name with his.

My post was about 3 posts after Jay's.

Radishes calls me scum for doing something Jay did three posts before me for realsies that I did as a joke.

Radishes avoided calling Jay scum.

Because they are teammate.

I'll wait.

Lol I feel like there are quite a few people who are just falling in love with the idea of catching me and not actually reading my play. Namely Dom, Nanook, Jack and now Nutella. Dom especially only really amped it up on me when I came back to thread live and a bunch of others (Jay, Nanook, Sloonei) all simultaneously started hounding me. It was too opportunistic and I do not trust.

I'm not really one who generally believes/trusts when people make self meta reads but if you've seen my GoC play, or really the vast majority of my mafia play, before (and I have been mafia in multiple), I can't see how you look at this game and think you're seeing the mafia version of Mac.

I'm not saying that I'm playing well or anything, quite the contrary, but mislynching me today would be a poor result. We should lynch someone who sucks more at Mafia ergo if they are mislynched would be no loss. Someone like Jay, Epi, or Sloonei.

Stop defending yourself.

Who's bad? Why?

Jack isn't town here. If there's one read you should come back to if/when I die it should be this one. I can best summarise it by saying that he feels like he is only half attempting to scum hunt when compared to his actual range. Which would be forgiveable if he wasn't also ever present. He is holding back. Actually this is probably explains why I've had suspicion on a range of other players too. Jay, Sloonei, S~V~S, TSP, Dyslexicon all fit the bill.

I mean, besides Jack.

I've also not been a fan of TH this game I just read the ISO. My first issue with them at the beginning of the game was making reads with no real explanation. Then their treatment of colin was weird to me like they were so sure its gotta be colin and anyone who thought maybe give colin a chance must be bad too. Now all of a sudden since no one was following that he's onto something else. Shrug idk I don't feel great about him so far.

I think right now though I feel worse about mac. I'm not seeing him as civ and in looking back at other games I could see his responses as a scum mac. He is trying to get people off himself without trying to make cases elsewhere. His blindly following jack on nutella was meh. I know he has a way of trying to sneakily get suspicion in different directions without directly saying it.
[VOTE: mac] aubergine

This is a classic scum vote. Talk about someone else first. But ultimately have little reason to have even brought it up because the goal is to get your vote on the mislynch.

I agree with Mac here. This is shite.

Steaming the tamales, which I've never made before and am unlikely to make again. What a pain in the ass. Who came up with the idea of putting dough in corn husks?

I'm here for half an hour.

move your vote

Why?

Because Jay's town and we're not about to lynch him in the last half hour of the day with several viable options on the board.

Yesterday ruined me for this day phase. I can't keep up and shit keeps piling up.

Why is your preference Radishes over Mac?

Dizzy's proposed hot potato on my is not a bad look. There were several established counterwagons already on the board, including Mac who does not look like a compatible Radish partner. If anyone wanted to save Radishes, all they needed to do was vote Mac.

Agreed.

Mac hasn't tried to find a baddie for a second. He only cared about lynching anyone not named Mac.

I have refrained thus far from commenting on Dom vs Mac, but this is a silly thing to say. Come on now.

To answer Dyslexicon:

I just tied it up.

Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:33 pm

That's the when.

The why was mostly fucking around. I had an early suspicion of Radishes ages ago. No suspicion of Mac. So I did a thing.

To answer Dyslexicon:

I just tied it up.

Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:33 pm

That's the when.

The why was mostly fucking around. I had an early suspicion of Radishes ages ago. No suspicion of Mac. So I did a thing.

Thank yous.

So what you are saying is that you are not on the Radish team, but you are on the Mac team?

Yes.

And If Mac is mafia, Epi is a teammate for sure since he tied it up.

If.

Also food for thought that I'm workshoping:

N1 there was no kill

This is correct.

and Sprityo/Dom started to pursue Mac more heavily.

I'll take your word for it.

Now there were a few things floating around about that,

I'm not sure what you mean here. What things?

but given some of the voters on his wagon and how Sabie flipped I think Team 1 tried to kill Mac and it didn't work since he has the one night kill protection. Which led to a push from some of the players on his wagon to flip him to gain civ credit.

This bit is begging the question. Your assumption is that Mac was the N1 kill target and that the Night 1 killing team went after him, which is why Mac is bad. There are also a host of reasons why someone could survive a kill. I doubt very seriously Mac was the Night 1 kill target. I wouldn't kill him. He was doing fuck all.

I am not opposed to lynching MacDougall. I need to be convinced. This doesn't do it for me.

Epi is like idk my 5th to 8th highest scumread. He’s not even really on the menu. I’d rather get GMan or Mac.

G-Man I get. I have my own grievance.

I have read so much shit about Mac and I still don't understand what people see there. I see an angry old man who yells at anything that yells back.

Meanwhile, Radishes is dead. sabie is dead. There's shit to work with there.

I think we should hunt as if we don't have a great lead and then assess as we go?

How does one do that exactly?

...not by ruling out someone simply because they aren't on one of the two baddie teams.

I think we should hunt as if we don't have a great lead and then assess as we go?

This is not someone trying to actually solve the game.
This is someone looking to antagonize anyone who disagrees into exhaustion.

You literally just said to abandon all of our leads?

Dare I suggest that Mac and Dom ignore each other for the time being? There's plenty of mafia to go around. Just a suggestion.

Epignosis - Does not appear to be earnestly attempting to achieve a civilian wincon.

Go on.

I have yet to see you take control of the game in the way that I am used to. I have seen the same tone that I am used to but not the same impact.

Not going to happen. I'm here maybe a couple of hours in the evening. I work two jobs and have three kids. Games on the Internet that don't make me any cash draw the short straw.

But ... Mafia is life?

Debt is slavery. I eliminate the former and I am a free man.

Okay- I have a game with my family and then Walrus III. After that if I'm not drunk and passed out, I'll finish reading and hopefully do something that satisfies Mac "I have nipples so I'm bad" Dougall.

What are you asking me, nutella? I'm quite behind and don't know the context.

If sig is bad, there’s a 50% chance he starts the day with -2 votes. A tie doesn’t do much and may just be ensuring a mac lynch.

And then MacDougall gets lynched instead, which is apparently the itinerary for Day 4 as I understand it. What's it matter?

I think sig is a better lynch than Mac.

Why?

Inb4 the masters team is sum bs like Jay/Nut/Sloo/Epi.

Shit, if it was, we'd have already won this shit.

Worms time. I'll be back before the poll locks. I like my vote where it is. sig can hang. Mac can hang. I don't give a shit.

The word that comes to mind here is "empty". These posts go nowhere, and that is a concern. I don't see evidence that Epignosis was doing anything on his own to learn Mac's alignment. I highlighted two bits toward the middle of the spoiler that I do not care for. Epi was "not opposed" to lynching Mac, but still needed some kind of "convincing" -- whatever that means -- and then he told us about his non-suspicion of Mac relative to the "convincing" that others had provided. If he didn't see the case, why was he "not opposed"? This is soft shit for Epignosis. It all looks aimless.

Compatibility: High

G-Man

Spoiler: show

~mega snip~

"I need to go back and read through the poll leaders. (This was Mac and Radish at the time. I never circled back to that. Shocker, I know!)

~snip~

Okay so the fact that I have had 6 unmoved votes on me for the past 2 hours approaching deadline is a pretty solid indication that both scum teams are on my wagon imo.

The fact that Jack/TH/G-Man and Radishes wagons have all had no momentum strongly indicates at least 1, probably more of them are solid wagons.

I am not letting you lynch me today. So figure out where to put your vote that isn't me. This ain't happening.

Okay, I don’t trust Sloonei, so I can’t vote for Radish. I’m not crazy enough to vote for myself (yet). That leaves TH. I don’t have a handle on the case for lynching him, so care to share? There’s too much post-vomit to sift through and I’ve got ironing to do.

@G-Man what's your read on Mac? Hurry

Overall, Mac is hard for me to read. Nutella thinking he is bad from beyond the grave could sway me. I’m also glad she shares my distrust of Sloonei.

Other than Dyslexicon dying, that was a good night post. I hope my idiocy didn’t help put a target on your back.

I’m not following the team compatibility here, and I need to try to go back and find some of it. Is it being suggested that when it was Mac vs Radish that it was trains on two people from the same team?

I'll be ISOing and laying things out about Mac again later, if everyone else doesn't pursue it then meh whatever.

G-man yea different teams.

Opposing teams because Saitama’s team killed on even nights. I see it now. In that case, lynching someone on the even-night team today would make for some interesting analysis of Day 2. Shucking and jiving on both sides could expose at least one more on each team if we’re lucky.

I don't understand any of this. "Janitor", how this proves Mac is bad, any of it.

I feel ignorant. Can someone explain this to me like I'm an ignoramus cause obviously I am.

Basically saitama has a one time janitor (hides flip) which was clearly used on dizzy (otherwise default is roles flip, i know yours not used to that). The theory is mac is saitama and used his one time ability bc he is in danger of being lynched. And it just adds to sig's pre-existing theory that Mac one-posted him.

Or in a game with this much potential for cross-kills and vig action, they figured to use it early on principle so as to not let it go to waste. I see how it fits the proposed Mac scenario though. It feels a little tidy, but that’ll happen when the jig is up.

[VOTE: GMan] aubergine
Let him and Mac fight it out.

Oh, you sillyhead. I’m a lover, not a fighter.

It seems I am very rusty,looking at my earlier GTH list, after reading last nights conversation, it sucks lolol.

I will redo one tonight, maybe doing in thread GTH reads might be a good exercise if lots of us are here?

G-Man what are your thoughts on sig and Mac, and TSP and ted if you have caught up to last nights discussion?

Overreacting G-Man would pounce on the ‘ted is scum and using G-Man as an easy target’ line, but overreacting G-Man isn’t here right now Mrs. Torrence. I’m not familiar enough with ted’s content this game to read into it very far.

I have no opinion on TSP for similar reasons.

Regarding sig and Mac, it seems like people think they’re on opposite teams. The Mac train and Mac’s reactions to it are making me weary due to how long it’s been going on. I’m leaning pretty hard on the work of others when it comes to taking a stand on sig. Dyslexicon feels like sig is bad, and that’s good enough for me I think. But what does sig flipping civ tell us about anyone else? Similarly, what does Mac flipping baddie tell us about anyone else?

Also, are we assuming Mac is on the full team or the team with only two members left? I see references to Team A and Team B, bit help me start to wrap my brain around it. Which team do we think Mac is on and which team do we think sig is on? Sorry if this is out there already. Skimming is a bugger.

I’ll change my vote to Mac to keep things closer for now. I won’t likely be around much after 5:30 est.

@G-Man Mac is on the full remaining (Master) team, sig is on the Radish/Sabie (Anti-Monitor) team

Ok. That helps a little. I wouldn’t expect much teammate shenanigans if Mac is baddie and exposed like this. Sig’s hypothetical teammate is keeping quiet too. I think civs are going to make most, if not all of the noise through EoD.

Overall, I’d rather not hear Mac ranting against the world for another day. Plus, if he’s on the team that has a full roster right now, then we should pare them back a little. Don’t want them getting overconfident.

There's some stuff in here that feels like a wet noodle to me -- suspicions of Mac stated with what looks like timidness (yellow highlight). I would like this more without wet noodles. I also highlighted an orange thing that slightly jiggled my intuitions in a positive way. That does look more like a G-Man with no clue what's going on than a G-Man trying to get clarity about why his teammate is getting railroaded. It's something. G-Man's vote did land on Mac today, and that's also something. This is a mixed bag.

Conclusion: Decent

I'm skipping Jack for now. Ain't nobody got time for dat

[nutella]

Lol don't let this exercise fool you. Jay is Mac's teammate.





(I say this based on him being so quick to dismiss my Mac "equity" as if he knows I'm innocent. I'm not sure I actually think this yet but I thought it would sound smart. I'll do some homework on it tomorrow.)

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Dom went fairly hard after teammate jack in the wire. Wouldn’t say it’s out of their range.

That said the volume is pretty noticeably different.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

juliets

Spoiler: show

I'm going to look at Master Radish next and then nutella.

Any reason for the order here considering Nutella is present and Radishes is not?

nutella will take me longer and I don't know that I can finish her tonight. I guess I could do as much of her as I can tonight and post it and finish her in the morning, so I'll do that.

ISO @nutella continued:

Here's the rest of what I see in Nutella's ISO. I tried to concentrate more on what I think/feel about her comments.

There are puts and takes but overall I don't see this as bad nutella. She says some things that make me feel not good about her and Mac's forceful suspicions made me more wary about her than Jack's but overall I just don't think this is bad nutella. As I just said in my response to S~V~S her tone is missing the snark and thread of meaness that I have seen when she's bad.

Also, after reading her thoroughly and thinking about Jack's ISO overnight and seeing his comments after my Iso I feel better about him this morning. Not ready to clear him but feeling better than I did yesterday.

Off to breakfast and then ISO Radish and speed.

~snip ISO spoiler~

Nice summary Radishes. The part about Mac is curious. He was adamant she was bad but didn't vote for her - I didn't notice when I read it. But I'm trying to think through how it would make him bad to NOT vote nutella. Does anyone understand what I'm trying to ask? I'll think about it for awhile.

I'm going to spend some time taking a look at Mac.

Ok, I know I said I was going to look at Mac and I am but I got sidetracked to Turnip Head for a few minutes. I looked up the Firefly game to see if I was remembering his scum behavior correctly and what I find is it is radically different from the way he's behaving here. He's lighthearted in that game especially in the beginning but really peppered all the way through and his posts appear more frequently. I did not look at our team chat (I'm not even sure there's a link to it) but I saw enough in the game thread. I'm posting the link here: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/search ... only&ch=-1

Take a look at it, read through some of his posts, it doesn't take long to read a few pages. Look at page 5 where he welcomes me on board his ship (I believe I subbed in that game) - it's an example of why I said earlier I found him charming.

I don't think I can support a full town read here based on this one game but if he is scum here his behavior has changed a lot.

There are some things about MacDougall that I could read as scum but I really need to see more behavior. I really don't want to say any more about it until I do see more. It's odd to me that he hasn't yet come into the thread after the early lynch but it's not unheard of for Mac to miss a day. He did say early on in the thread that he's a very busy guy.

One thing I'd like to know from Mac is why there was the turn around on Jack. On one day he is saying Jack is lying and nutella should be our leader and then this:

Jack is exhibiting his "I am scum" tell. I bet he keeps doing it too.

and then his very next post about the subject comes the next day when he says:

Btw Jack is always right about Nutella. It's canon. So either he's town and she's wolf or he's wolf and she's wolf, or he's wolf and she's town. But one of them is always a wolf so we should lynch Nutella.

and then he was off and running with his badgering of nutella regarding her comment in another game that Jack always reads her correctly.

Mac, can you explain your turnaround from thinking Jack was scummy with his nutella suspicion to thinking Jack had hit the nail on the head with respect to her? What happened in between that changed your mind?

I apologize if someone already asked this and I don't remember.

Townish people:
G-man
Turnip (?)
Juliets (?)
Nook (?)
Ted (?)
Sig?

Scum:
Almost everyone else?

Jack town
Mac town
Jimmy town
Dom town

Turnip, I can agree with Jack, Jay, and Dom but can you talk about why you read Mac as town?

Good morning everyone.

I'm caught up and have to say Mac made me burst out laughing. He hasn't displayed the behavior I was looking for to be certain that he's scum so at this moment neither he nor Radish strike me as good candidates for a lynch today. Further, he now has me antsy about Jack. I don't need to be reminded how easily I can be taken in by Jack. And finally, I know he said he's not pushing Drago but wth is going on with Drago anyway. He's a complete non-entity.

This morning I'm going to take a look at Sloonei and see if I can indentify why I have had trouble seeing him as town. I see nutella has been having some similar feelings about him so I'm not alone. Then unless something else has come up I'll look at Tony. He hasn't responded to my response to his voting me but maybe he hasn't been online since then.

To Michelle: I'm not positive about Nanook's greeness but I don't suspect him at this time (note I haven't looked at his ISO I'm just going by his tone since he's returned).

Master Radishes spend time with your wife.

Sorry, S~V~S I am jumping in the shower and out the door to the gym. Quickly though, there were debates about Colin and Mac so I would look at them in ISO's if you can.

Sorry, S~V~S I am jumping in the shower and out the door to the gym. Quickly though, there were debates about Colin and Mac so I would look at them in ISO's if you can.

Thanks, Jules. I tend to have better comprehension reading thread exchanges than ISOs in general, I find I miss less nuance that way, but I will ISO them as well. Colin was a red read for me, but only as a default since I did not remember much of what he had said, and Mac was a red as well since he had not had anything to say after nutella flipped non-baddie, and his whole thing there reminded me of bad Mac (although I tend to baddie read him in general, so my opinion is not always the most valuable there), so they were both on my list.

Also, if there is anything I have to address, let me know.

Also, can anyone give me their take on why sprit voted for Nanook? Out of all the votes I see up there, that is the one that surprises me the most.

I was also busy yesterday but I had a chance to read up on what's been happening. Colin has been getting suspicion for not doing much of anything. A few people namely sloonei and spirit said colin often gets mislynched for this so they were wary of voting him so soon. TH said they're suspicious for defending him. I didn't see that as defending him as much as just being cautious of voting him too early without giving him a chance. I understand this because I get mislynched for my weird playstyle too sometimes but I haven't seen anything from colin that convinces me he's town. I had pointed out that sloonei and spirit haven't been their usual selves in the beginning of the game but I feel like sloonei has been more towny than spirit. Sloonei questioned me on my post and what I meant was if TH was suspecting him because of his difference in playstyle I could have understood that more than sayi g he's bad fir defending colin. I realize I worded that weird.


Sig had a big long post saying he was limited to one post and he thought mac did it. Mac disappeared for awhile and when he came back to find suspicion on him he was in full force mac mode and saying he's going to be mislynched and saying he won all these sockys so he is a good player and how could anyone accuse him and usual mac jokey stuff. He gave some reads and threw some suspicion at jack. I plan to read through his ISO and compare to some other games. He can be pretty tricky to read and as he pointed out he is a good player. I'm wondering if the more emotional mac is a scummy mac that got annoyed he was caught or just a civ mac being annoyed that anyone would suspect him.

I'm trying to enjoy my weekend but I plan to read through the ISOs and I'll be around in and out.

sabie for what it's worth I read those posts about the sockys and other beating his own drum things as him joking. Maybe that's what you're saying here. In Inception when I engaged him about being bad (and he was) he didn't joke around at all. I see that as a good sign for him in this game.

S~V~S I don't have much of a memory of sprityo's vote for Nanook but I'll take a look at it now.

Some notes:

- I feel Colin is more likely town than scum for his righteousness. "Lynch me and I'll laugh at you". Annoying attitude, but probably likelier town than scum.

- I don't feel like lynching Mac is a good idea. I don't know. I kind of buy his defense, and i also feel like how he's giving out reads and thoughts rapidly, but then at the same time warns against "you should probably not listen to these" is more town. It's town doubt that he doesn't want to be fully responsible for those reads. That's my feeling.

- I'm honestly getting cold feet on Radish, but that is just because it would suck so much if he's town here.

- I can't follow the convo between Juliets and Sloonei at all.

I agree with you on Colin, I'm not certain but after all the discussion I'm leaning town.

I also agree on Mac. His reaction to being suspected is much different than his reaction from Inception where he was bad.

Sorry about the convo between me and Sloonei being unfollowable. I was trying to put into words a tone read and it was hard.

lots of linki

Am I blinded to scum Mac? I'm not seeing the behavior I saw in Inception and his response to being scum read is different here than he was there.

Dizzy can you talk about Jack if you're here?

Am I blinded to scum Mac? I'm not seeing the behavior I saw in Inception and his response to being scum read is different here than he was there.

Dizzy can you talk about Jack if you're here?

How would you describe that difference between the two games? I do believe Mac is not a binary character, but I am open to whatever you have in mind.

I was trying to not talk about what I saw when he was bad because he'll just not do it but that is hampering me being able to discuss him. In Inception his style was chaos posting. He was all over the place with his reads and thoughts and at one point even said that when he's bad he tends to post like iaafr (who is a chaos poster regardless of alignment). I haven't seen him doing that here. He flipped on nutella/Jack but someone - I can't remember who this game is so flooded - walked through that flip and it made sense to me. Anyway, it wasn't chaos posting.

In Inception when I finally confronted him he didn't make jokes that I recall like he did here. He was more "serious" (if I can use that word in relation to Mac) than he was here when he was arguing about his innocence.

The primary difference though is his posting style. I just see a different Mac here.

What do you mean when you say he is not binary? Do you mean his meta is not clearly "good" Mac and "bad" Mac?

Thanks JaggedJimmyJay I will read back on Mac and decide if that's where I should be. I'm so annoyed with G-Man for taking up so much time getting the Oompa Loompa's right when he could have been sharing more thoughts, asking questions, etc. but I don't think my annoyance is worth a vote. His content lacks but there are others whose content is even more lacking.

sabie12 it still wasn't the kind of chaos posting he did in Inception but I'm going back now to his posts in this game and rethink him. Jay's comment about him not being binary has helped.

Like beyond Mac’s teammates dogpiling, I haven’t a clue why I’m being voted for. I’m insanely town here. Did a bunch of stuff yesterday I wouldn’t have done as a wolf.

Like what?

Could we lynch Sabie?

Thanks for reminding me that I wanted to ask MacDougall what he saw as Sabie's scum tell.

Could we lynch Sabie?

Thanks for reminding me that I wanted to ask @MacDougall what he saw as Sabie's scum tell.

She worked too hard to quantify tossing a vote on me. She wrote a prep post for it, then in the vote post she wrote a wall of drivel to justify voting there. It's what nervous scum do especially when voting to block progression of a teammate wagon.

I'm looking for that now.

I've also not been a fan of TH this game I just read the ISO. My first issue with them at the beginning of the game was making reads with no real explanation. Then their treatment of colin was weird to me like they were so sure its gotta be colin and anyone who thought maybe give colin a chance must be bad too. Now all of a sudden since no one was following that he's onto something else. Shrug idk I don't feel great about him so far.

I think right now though I feel worse about mac. I'm not seeing him as civ and in looking back at other games I could see his responses as a scum mac. He is trying to get people off himself without trying to make cases elsewhere. His blindly following jack on nutella was meh. I know he has a way of trying to sneakily get suspicion in different directions without directly saying it.
[VOTE: mac] aubergine

This is a classic scum vote. Talk about someone else first. But ultimately have little reason to have even brought it up because the goal is to get your vote on the mislynch.

There are two things in sabie12's post that I question. One is what scum games did you look at sabie? Also, why are you saying he "blindly" followed Jack? He had a conversation with nutella where she told him Jack reads her well and I don't remember her denying that she did that (correct me if I'm wrong). I don't see that as blindly following.

I'm back.

sabie12 did you see the question I asked earlier about what scum games of mac's you are comparing him to here? I didn't see an answer but maybe I missed it.

Now I like sabie.
Is Mac or Jack a good lynch?

I could lynch Mac. I think lynching Jack is a bad move.

Sloonei are you seeing bad Mac or just not seeing good Mac? It's probably in your ISO but I've been in too many ISO's today and it's drowning me in a river of words.

I'm back.

sabie12 did you see the question I asked earlier about what scum games of mac's you are comparing him to here? I didn't see an answer but maybe I missed it.

I was thinking of world asunder and the fallout game. In the fallout game he was on my team so I felt like he's been acting similar here in this game. As opposed to when he's been town like in all my circuits.

Ok, I didn't play or spectate Fallout and all I remember about Asunder is how he managed to skate by .

@JaggedJimmyJay I like your points about G-Man's post.

which point stands out the most to you?

The point about why you are the worst offender and the point about why exactly S~V~S and I are a problem. So for example, I'm not troubled that he finds me a problem but he didn't explain it and didn't answer me when I asked about it.

Are you clear on why you are the worst offender?

I am not. I'm not even clear why I'm on the list at all (I get what he has said, I just don't understand why he regards it as a bad thing). I believe I've asked him about this already.
I see that your vote is currently on G-man. How confident is that read? What other names are you considering?

I don't ever have high confidence in a read in early game, and it's been a while since I played with G-Man but out of the people I have looked at I have more confidence in him being bad than others. I thought I was going to move my vote but I can't find someone I feel as strongly about. sabie12 may be bad, I thought Mac had a good point, but I feel like I would just be voting for her because I should move. Should is the operative word - should in who's eyes?

God, am I going to have to choose between MR who I've had a town read on for 2 days or Mac who I don't see as scum at this time? This is impossible.

I have read through everything since I got off last night but I haven't assimilated all the theories yet. Plus I was not able to go through Sloonei's long post - I want to do that when I have more time to think about it which is not now. I start this day (Monday) out feeling bad about sabie so I will take a look at her more closely (again) this afternoon. I'm most confused on Mac, Jack and TH. I should just forget about trying to read Jack as he is right, I suck at it. I can't count on Mac being town yet even though I want to and with TH I know I'm seeing him as town because of meta and feel like I need to take a closer look. I'm not going to name my top towns right now because it's night and I'm old school. I'll work toward publishing a rainbow or GTH after day starts.

One other thing I want to say, I am rethinking my G-Man position based on his post last night. The theory that G-Man and Radishes were teammates really clicked with me last night and made me see voting for G-Man and voting for Radishes was basically the same thing. But his post leaves me believing he is town after all. I empathize with his feeling of the game being overwhelming and wanting to die soon if he's going to die - I have more time than he does and can barely keep up.

I have to be at work early this morning and probably have to stay late though I will get away as soon as I can because I have a lot to process here. And finally for now, welcome back @nutella I hope you are town because your thoughts help me a lot.

I'm finally home and caught up except I haven't read all of Jay - will finish that momentarily. I want to read through EOD again, painful as that may be, but I will keep this window open and check back frequently for current discussion.

Just some thoughts/questions while reading through -

S~V~S posted that she would be mad if G-Man's AtE turned out to be baddie motivated but she doesn't think it is because he couldn't live with the guilt. That describes what I felt when I read it too but I'm having misgivings after seeing that others aren't giving him an inch of ground on that because he's so compatible with Radish. Reading that post again about not voting for Radishes because of Sloonei was definitely ugh. I'll revisit this issue at some point today.

ColinIsCool you said you would lynch Jack based on the Radish flip - anything specific you can talk about?

tedxtr you asked why nutella seems off tonally but so far I'm not seeing that. Can you be more specific?

Jackofhearts2005 you made a comment that the chances of Mac being scum are cut in half after the Radish flip. Maybe I'm taking that too literally but could you talk more about why?

I do agree with the suspicion thats out there about sabie but I need to look at the details to explain it (this thought was triggered by Dizzy's post about her).

I laughed when I got to Dizzy's post about being more confident now - I feel exactly the opposite. I will keep trying though.

Jay's finding about sig being decently compatible with Radishes was a surprise so I want to look into that more. I have avoided looking at sig's ISO because I perceive there's so much.

@juliets jack did in fact mean that literally, that mac's chances of being scum are only half of what they were, because he's clearly not on the radish team.

Ok so it really is the math - thanks, I can't think that quick through math (sooo embarrassing).

I don't understand any of this. "Janitor", how this proves Mac is bad, any of it.

I feel ignorant. Can someone explain this to me like I'm an ignoramus cause obviously I am.

sig theorized before that Mac was Saitama and targeted him so he could only post one post during the day. Mac almost got lynched yesterday so now sig is saying that Mac as Saitama used his other power on Dizzy last night, janitoring the kill (making it so that Dizzy's role wasn't revealed) because he or the team feels like he (Mac) will be lynched today so he needed to use the power last night. Somebody correct this if I've got it wrong.

Here is the Saitama role:

Saitama - Each night, you will choose one player to be limited to a single post during the next day. You have a one-time nightkill survival, and once in the game you can janitor a kill you perform, giving you alone the result.

SVS Jay and Sloonei probably the Radish voters I’m most interested in as bussers

I’d probably kill between them and tranq today

Maybe nutella/drago if I’m ignoring my desire to play with Nutella

Tbh I’d probably kill the other three over sloonei too

No interest in Mac today in lieu of sig's theory?

I'm running a little late this morning with my post. I decided to try posting thoughts as I go. From here I need to read through Mac and sig while I'm fresh.

Okay I gotta go for real. I have a ride along for a job all day tomorrow, a quiz, case study, and test that I haven't studied enough for. Then like 2 more tests and a paper. So i'll only be popping in.

linki: Rude my theory makes perfect sense paired with an ISO read of Mac.

And for that reason I will be ISOing Mac this morning.

The theory fits together nicely but I want to see bad Mac for myself.

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine I'm not seeing town fire in her

I haven't seen it either which worries me. When we were bad together she posted much less than her normal town meta.

So much for the thunderdome then

I don't know what that means either.

Thank goodness, I was feeling dumb for not knowing what thunderdome means.

I think we should hunt as if we don't have a great lead and then assess as we go?

This is not someone trying to actually solve the game.
This is someone looking to antagonize anyone who disagrees into exhaustion.

I haven't done the ISO yet but my perception matches that Mac hasn't tried to solve the game.

But by far the most intriguing thing on these joint lists is the placement of sig on both occasions. On the surface sig feels like a comfortable town read, but Jay and I both approached Radishes' interactions from different ends of the spectrum, and we both came out of our respective exercises with negative opinions of sig.

[VOTE: sig] aubergine for now while I do some more digging.

This was surprising to me because there has been so much talk about sig being good. If sig is bad then maybe G-Man is right and sig's theory is "too tidy". Another ISO to do, after Mac.

3 for 3 deal? Hmmmm

Ted whatcha talking about here?

Like honestly, Epi, what are you doing.

Your best effort and genuine feeling won’t get me lynched. You know just repeating shit like “Jack is bad” or “Jack should be lynched” isn’t going to do the trick.

What? Are you treading water or something?

I'm not town reading Jack (I'm still sorting him) but the middle paragraph is a good point. Epi, please give some thoughts on why you see him as bad (I haven't done your ISO so if you have and I missed it just point me there).

Like Sig gets lynched every damn game he’s in. He got a universal townread for two days.

Sig didn’t spontaneously generate Juliets level fake purity. He’s just town.

What? Fake purity?

I'm skipping Sloonei's sig ISO until I can do my own, then I'll go back to his.

SVS--
I think he could be, yes. And that makes me very nervous.
G-Man is not one to be underestimated.

I agree. I don't want to believe it but I am also thinking he could be trying to manipulate with that post. Edit: aaaaaand then he makes another post that sounds genuine. The skeptic in me is just too strong though. I'll let this simmer.

That sounds stupid so let’s phrase this differently:
If Mac is scum, is there anyone who is surely also scum?
Lynch them instead.
Mac has a very limited range of possibilities and if we lynch him on autopilot and we’re wrong we risk having no leads on what will soon be a fully powered scum team.

So you are saying lynch someone for being bad with Mac even though we don't know whether Mac is bad? That feels wrong but I'll ponder it while I ISO some people.

linki: Tony, did you already talk about why S~V~S is number 1 on your list? And I guess you must have posted a list that I don't remember so I'll look back for it.

This is not finished. juliets talked about Mac so much that I literally exceeded the maximum post length quoting everything.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

juliets continued

Spoiler: show

MacDougall thoughts -

After finishing this ISO I have to admit I didn't find much, no smoking gun for me that he is bad, so if you want skip this and go to the last paragraph. Sorry part of this is squished together I couldn't get my spacing right.

I'm starting in Day 2 because I read him as town for his N1 posts.

- I said earlier I had the perception that Mac hadn't done much hunting but he did point out specifics about sabie12 being bad. I realize she's on "the other team" but I want to acknowledge that he did that at least.

- There are a sequence of posts during EOD where Mac sounds desperate. He says people should move to another wagon and includes TH in the list and then turns around and tells G-Man that he doesn't suspect TH at all. This post is indicative of the desperate tone I see:

I want to vote mac but dont know why

OMG scum everywhere

- I don't understand where this Dizzy read comes from:

G-Man is outed imo. Dyslexicon looks like a teammate too.

- I don't understand this post - he pointed out specifics that made sabie bad. She's on Radish's team though so I guess this doesn't really matter.

Nanook, Jack and Dom were all on Nutella and me.

Mac cares nothing about facts.
Nanook literally had a civ role when thye voted nutella.

Mac and Sabie should be our priorities tomorrow.

Why Sabie?

- This was Mac's red list after the lynch. I can see argument for most of these though I'm not reading Dom as scum at the moment and sprityo I'm up in the air about.

Michelle (a)
Tranq (a)
Jackofhearts2005 (b)
sabie12 (a/b)
Dom (b)
G-Man (b)
sprityo (b)

- And herein lies the problem ( he did point out right afterwards that now that he has feelers in the game he can start hunting):

Mac hasn't tried to find a baddie for a second. He only cared about lynching anyone not named Mac.

I mean, I did try for some seconds but you are mostly right.

- This is more of a Jack thing but I am paying attention Mac:

I'm not dying as long as people vote for me during the day and I'm not getting lynched as long as I'm me.

Yeah you kept saying this in Inception and you were right and won us the game.

Cautionary tale for those paying attention.

- Here's some hunting and I think his points were pretty good:

Spoiler: show

Not that I suspect Mac but I’ll be voting him anyways [VOTE: mac] aubergine

Absolute scenes as sprityo outs himself as scum

Let's talk about how Sprityo voted for someone he says he didn't suspect over someone who flipped scum and then count the ways how this makes him scum.

Way number 1. He actually did suspect me.

ColinIsCool green
Dom green
Dragomir green
Dyslexicon green
Epignosis green
JaggedJimmyJay green
juliets green
Michelle green
sabie12 green
Sloonei green
tedxtr green
TonyStarkPrime green
Tranq green

G-Man red
Jackofhearts2005 red
MacDougall red
Master Radishes red
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME 2.0 red
S~V~S red
sig red
speedchuck red
Turnip Head red

I’m comfortable with this personal GTH

By default I put anyone I had no opinion on due to lack of voting as green

Way number 2. He also suspected MR. See above. So if he actually didn't suspect me, he did suspect MR, but he voted me who didn't suspect over MR who he did.

Way number 3. This post, along with the rest of the Jack tunnel.

I see the reasons for voting speedchuck, radishes, Nutella and they all work, I guess.

I just really want to vote jack.

Sprityo has been attacking Jack for much of the game, but in this post he "sees the reason" for voting radishes, yet finds his vote on me at the end of the day. His Jack sus is not legitimate because he's not genuinely pushed it, he's just repeatedly said "Jack is scum". When Jack was near to tying me, Sprityo wasn't pushing his Jack suspicion at all. Just took a back seat until the Jack wagon disappeared enough for him to vote for me instead. The only way his Jack sus could read as illegitimate is if they are teammates. Guess who was on non MR wagons both days. Jack.

- More hunting:

Spoiler: show

Jack on Radish Day 1

Jack mention of Radish #1. Echoes a Jay read.

Radish has made a decent number of posts and none of them have inspired any feeling in me, so that's a net negative.

This mirrors my thoughts as well.

#2 asks TH to clarify his Radish suspicion. Goes nowhere with it/drops it.

I for one hate looking terrible but I'd rather lynch radish

I’m unlikely to move my vote today (especially to a player I’ve mostly see play 3p) but talk to me about Radish anyway.

Can't figure out where to vote. Maybe Radishes but provides a weak reason not to and then doesn't.

I have no idea where I’d put my vote now. Maybe on Radishes but that feels like a cop out because I don’t suspect Radishes I just don’t see anything townie in him and he’s probably the player here whose game I have the weakest grasp of.

Wants an explain on Radishes wagon, tries to push Dom instead (that sure went places).

Somebody explain the Radishes wagon.

I kinda want to lynch Dom.

Has Radishes red in a readslist. Apologies if this is just Jay's list copied again lol.

I think this is about where I'm at atm.


Dyslexicon
Epignosis
juliets
Michelle
nutella
S~V~S

Sloonei
tedxtr
TonyStarkPrime
sprityo
Tranq
Turnip Head

ColinIsCool
Dom
Dragomir

G-Man
Jackofhearts2005
JaggedJimmyJay
Master Radishes
NANOOK
sabie12
sig
speedchuck

Ends up voting for Nutella over Radishes in a straight tie.

I see no reason to disqualify them as partners on this evidence.

Night 1 Stuff

Out of time. Okay, let’s do this quickly - no links, soz. But trust me on my interpretation.

After Jack initiated the Nutella vote (bottom of page 11), it gained little traction. In fact, he mostly got flack at first – Mac and Sloonei both dismissed it, especially Mac (who called Nutella town and Jack scum in the space of a few posts.) Nutella counter-votes, and Epi and Sprit both join the Jack vote in their own time. But everyone was focusing on Nanookian satire instead.

Jack wouldn’t let it go, and as the discussion over Nanook wanes, Ted votes Nutella (‘page 12 was yucky’), whilst SVS and Dom vote Jack. It becomes the thread’s main focus for a couple pages. The Radish wagon picks up and kills it off, eventually. (Ted switches off at some point.)

Jack still doesn’t let it go, and some pages later Mac now (despite his earlier stance) declares Jack often right about this and nutella’s defence bad (but doesn’t vote there). Turnip Head, seemingly going off of Mac’s posts, votes Nutella (but only says ‘why not’). Epi questions Jack’s logic, but then a page later also votes Nutella (no reason given). Sig quickly also votes Nutella (‘reactions’). A bit later, Dom (reason unclear, but I think about ‘back peddling’) and Sabie (scum!Jack wouldn’t do this) also vote Nutella.

The wagon goes a bit stale, and Epi and Sig both jump off it.

--

At its peak moment, the voters, by my count and in order, were: Jack, TH, Epi, Sig, Dom, Sabie [6]. It’s at this moment that there is very likely at least one scum on the wagon. The Nutella vote gained momentum fairly quickly, and was a duelling wagon with the one on me. Scum mentality is to nudge these sort of wagons, and I think it’s perfectly reasonable to work under the assumption there is at least one in this group.

All 5 non-Jack voters can appear to be opportunistic. TH, Epi, and Dom gave no reasons, whilst Sig and Sabie gave lacklustre reasons. (Also notable is Mac, who nudged it along without ever landing there.)

Of those names, I’m not sure one in particular stands out. I think Sig’s vote was the most egregious, but his macro play of all those names has been the greenest. At the moment I’m not entirely sure where I’d place a vote (and obviously can’t anyway), but GTH I’d say Sabie. Also not a fan of Mac’s play on this – inconsistent and never landed on the wagon or, conversely, showed progression away from it. Just blew on the sparks a bit.



And off to bed I go.

This is all fair (but I don’t have to give you cred for it cause lolmultiball) and I think Dom and Mac look worst off it.

Can teammates reply like this? Of course.

Day 2 Stuff

Cause town has perverse incentive to cooperate with scum that have good SRs on the opposite team, so you see mac as doing that and think it’s a townie mindset

Would be my guess anyways

I really really really really dislike his flip flop on how he read me and Nutella. He declared me a wolf and Nutella one we should follow after the two of us started battling. Then like 12 hours later, I was town and Nutella was scum because I read her perfectly.

His argument for Nutella being scum exists in its entirety at the time he expressed a strong townread on her. His read change does not come from a town perspective. It comes from a scum perspective mimicking townplay, ie trusting Jack's Nutella read.

Why would baddie Mac express a strong townread on nutella and then flip flop just as soon? Why would a bad guy do that? It's a townie maneuever, just like your exact opposite flip flop was (I assume) townie.

Cause he forgot about his townread on her cause it was fake. Or cause Nutella was suddenly more appealing as a lynch considering she was counterwagon to his buddy Radish (which would be convenient considering our top wagons) than she was when I was the only player voting for her.

My progression is out there for everyone to see. Mac's progression doesn't exist on the thread.

Explains why I am bad through aligning me with Radishes. Fairly thoroughly debunked since I reckon. Null on whether that makes him teammates with Radishes. Probably a slightly good look but really if you have a weakened teammate you're gonna tie anyone you can to them.

Doesn't mention Radishes again the entire day.

Each of these are enough to suspect Sprityo in their own right. Too much smoke. The guy is bad.

- Mac why do you see this post as bad?

I have no clue if Jack is town or not. My gut reaction would be town, but I think the only evidence to that end is the WIFOM “oh Jack wouldn’t go after Nutella if he were scum” to which I’ll point out that 1) he might and 2) he backed off.

This is a bad post regardless of Jack's alignment.

-Somebody else, maybe Epi, brought this up too, I am not sure what you are saying here Mac.

IF Mac is mafia then both teams are effectively done. We can piece together the entire other baddie team based off yesterday.

We should be able to find the remaining two Anti-Moniter people based off the two flips as well.

Yes because if I was mafia I would not have anti-spewed the fuck out of things when I looked done for all money. Simple, simple sig.

Worst case Mac isn't mafia we have one mislynch.

BUT say we don't lynch him and let him keep rolling along, they'll keep killing civs and eventually we won't be able to win at all. This is when we still have a margin of error.

More importantly there are 2 roles Sprityo has at this point. If Mac isn't mafia (Very slim chance) Then Sprityo is one of the last members of Anti-Monitors. Potentially last since I still think it's possible Dizzy was mafia.

I mean Sprityo is definitely mafia, so you can go ahead and lynch me and flip that fool afterwards. I am comfortable with death at this point.

Mac, I don't believe you are comfortable with death at this point. (I do see your explanation later as to why but I still don't believe it. Evidence: World Asunder where you clung to life with your last gasp.)

- Mac, are you seriously saying your vote was a joke? It didn't sound like a joke.

And by extension how bad it is that Mac is for realzies voting him?

I'm sorry I didn't realise the deadline was approaching so fast that there wasn't time for memes.

Oh? Was your Sig vote a joke?

I thought it would be funny but apparently it's just another reason why I'm bad lol

- This post about sig caught my eye because in it he says Dom is town under a certain set of circumstances. I have avoided the whole Dom vs. Mac thing because there is history there and I can't trust what I read when one talks about the other which in this game has been all bad (to my memory) except for this post. To me this is a good look for Mac both because of the Dom thing and because he is dealing with his thoughts about the facts with sig, not just being snarky about him (I need to read sig which I will do next to get a better feel for whether I buy what Mac's saying).

Spoiler: show

Allow me.

Sig's first mention of Sabie. Replies to Dizzy to provide some neither here or there thoughts but has her in her civ meta at this point.

Spoiler: show

Players who knows Sabie much better than I, please talk about Sabie.

I've got some experience with her, but not alot.

She generally starts slow and doesn't post much but doesn't post fluff when around. Right now she seems to be within her normal civ meta.

Also a Pre-ISO (minus Michelle) breakdown of my thoughts.

Super duper Civ:
Sig

Civ Reads:
Epi: Playing within Civ meta, active.
SVS: Good tone and activity push. I like how she clarified her Radish Slip thing seemed very civvie.
tedxtr: This may change after I ISO him, but based off D0/early D1 liked him.


Civ Leans:
Sloonei
TH
sprityo
sabie12

Null:
juliets
G-Man
Dyslexicon
TonyStarkPrime
Dom

Need more posts:
Colins
Drag
Tranq


Mafia Lean:
nutella
MacDougall
Jackofhearts2005
JaggedJimmyJay
Master Radishes
speedchuck
Michelle


Mafia:
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Tried to minimize my null reads. My Jack/Nutella reads are based off their back and forth so I really didn't know where to stick them, but they're both pinging me right now.

First reads list has Sabie as a civ lean, which is inline with previous post, but I suppose counteracted by the fact that she was in fact, bad.

Spoiler: show

Dizzy, Mac, SVS, and TH/Colins are one team
Gman, Sabie, Radish, and (???) on other

linki: Yea sure tunneling since there's just one team whatever.

Next mention is on day 2 and suddenly has Sabie on a team with Radish and G-Man. Fails to provide a fourth option for that team (because he's in it?). There was no explanation as to why Sabie was suddenly mafia to Sig.

Sig


Dom
Epignosis
Jackofhearts2005







NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME 2.0
Sloonei
tedxtr
JaggedJimmyJay
juliets
TonyStarkPrime
Michelle



Dragomir
Tranq




Dyslexicon
ColinIsCool
Turnip Head
S~V~S
speedchuck



G-Man
MacDougall
sprityo
sabie12

Suddenly Sabie is the absolute red. Even more red than me. Still hasn't really explained his read at all. Interesting to note that he has sprityo and G-Man here too. If Sig is team radishes, then I doubt either of them are. It'd be some bullshit to throw 2/3 of your remaining partners into the deep red here.

D1 Nanook is confirmed you dipstick

Anyways, sabie and Dom are likely radish partners. Possibly one between jay/SvS/sloonei as well cause syndicate likes to bus.

Why Dom?

The only other thing close to a Sabie discussion point. He replies to Nanook to ask how Nanook has rationalised Dom as a scum partner of Radishes. Fmpov it seems pretty clear, so I don't actually buy that he really wanted to know. More just wanted to steer Nanook down the wrong path. If Sig is in team radishes/sabie this is a good look for both Dom, and Nanook not being Radishes partner. Dom because this "Why Dom" would be genuine surprise, and perhaps opportunism. Eliminating Dom and Nanook as the final partner would be a good result because until now I had them pretty much locked there.

The worst thing going for sig being teammates with Sabie is that she was apparently deep red to him but he spent literally no time talking about her outside of readslists. Like not even a "I think Sabie might be with Radishes", just literally nothing. There was no explanation about how she went from civ read to scum read either. So explaining how you went from civ read to scum, and specifically what about her play caused this would be helpful sig. I am aware you didn't have a chance to talk on day 2, but you did on night 1 and night 2. Obviously the implication is that you changed your read of her on day 2 when you were unable to speak much. I would have thought that one of your civ reads dropping to hard scum read would be something you'd enter the thread primed to talk about, but you instead have spent almost the entire content of your game attacking me instead.

Overall I'm a little torn because a lot of the other players that have radishes compatibility that aren't flipped (Dom, Nanook, G-Man, Sprityo) don't look very likely to be Sig partners. But as a Sabie partner he definitely profiles based on his content.

I wish I had read through all of this and could say I unequivocally see Mac as scum but I can't say that. I'm not seeing the smoking gun. I will go through the thread though and search for comments about Mac to remind myself the reasons people are so sure he is bad. The best argument for me comes from sig, the whole Saitama theory so maybe my read of sig will help me out. @Jackofhearts2005 also reminds me about the day 1 turnaround on he and nutella. That bothered me and I posted about it back on Day-something, then I got over it but I can't remember why. I'll revisit the discussion around this.

I'll read sig next after a short break.
[/quote]

Mac is self voting? Idgi. Does anyone remember him doing this before in a game?

Dizzy didn't say mac was town at all lmao?

I looked back at my sentence structure and I can see why you are seeing that. I mean't "As Dizzy pointed out, this doesn't mean Mac is town."

I don't see anyone pointing out a flaw in Dizzy's logic so I'm voting. Normally I would wait to hear from sig but this looks black and white to me. I can't think of an explanation that would make this go away.

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

Can't think of any explanation.......But doesn't bother to finish ISO.

Again mac teammates rushing onto another wagon.

Who said I didn't finish your ISO? I read the whole thing. The point Dizzy made that I say I can't think of an explanation for was the point that I quoted where you spoke about Mac being targeted for the kill as the only option for what happened and why he wouldn't have been protected or wasn't the civ. You acted as if you knew it was him that was targeted and not someone else who could have been protected or was the civ. You spoke from the POV that he was targeted. From Dizzy's analysis:

When SVS suggests that the no kill on N1 may have been for many reasons, Sig answers with the knowledge that Mac was the actual kill target.

Read it. Sig says he doubts the protective role would target Mac (so that couldn't be the reason why the kill failed.) And then Sig says that he considered that Mac could be the civ role, but that he thinks that Mac is just much more likely mafia (again revealing that Mac was targeted for a NK.)

And trying to intimidate me by calling me a Mac teammate when I vote for you looks desperate.

@MacDougall talk about players who aren’t voting for/heavily suspecting you. Who are your town reads? Is there anyone you think isn’t getting enough attention?

A great deal of people. The constant focus on myself (and now Sig) is very much allowing for a game environment where people who are absolutely failing in their basic civilian duty, or not living up to their usual standards are receiving little to no pressure. I have reservations about all the below;

Epignosis - Does not appear to be earnestly attempting to achieve a civilian wincon.
ColinIsCool - Only appears to be trying when there is pressure on him.
Michelle - Does not match her meta. Hasn't helped the civ cause really at all.
speedchuck - Does not appear to be the same speedchuck that I am used to seeing.
sprityo - Appears to be totally laying low outside of intermittently FPS reading me scum.
Tranq - Has literally made 5 posts or something.

Mac can you talk about speedchuck? Is it that he isn't posting frequently or something else/combination of things?

Ok thanks Mac. I haven't seen him as a force in this game like I remember but I wonder if that's because he is so busy. I do understand you're focused on his content not so much his frequency so I will take a better look at that.

lots of linki

I've looked over Dizzy's accusation of sig and sig's general responses. Thoughts:

~ I do think there is contextual space to say it's not a "slip" -- when sig referred to Mac in his response to S~V~S, it was an extension of the theory he had previously presented. This may be semantic depending upon what we define a slip to be -- maybe TMI is the better term.

I don't know if I can express my thought without getting convoluted but here goes. I see where you are saying sig referenced Mac being the target of the night kill prior but this example doesn't explain his comment to S~V~S. In that comment he spoke from the pov of someone who knew Mac was targeted with the kill because he did not entertain the thought that someone else besides Mac could have been targeted and saved or someone else might be the civ role. Instead, he talked about Mac being protected or Mac being the civ. I'm not saying it wasn't an extension of the theory he had but it was an extension that named Mac as the only possible target. If you want to call that TMI as opposed to a slip that's fine with me. Anyway, my point here was I don't think his prior mention helps him. If you think I have this wrong please let me know.

What if Dizzy's ghost was possessed by someone else tho

TH could you explain what you mean? I didn't see a mechanic like this in the OP.

The way I am reading it is that TSP is attempting to use some sort of probability to justify his vote as opposed to actually taking personal accountability for a read, which is a scum mentality generally.

I’ll take personal accountability into account: I think Sig is town. I’m indifferent on you. I’m voting for you.

Tony, how do you read his take on Mac being the one who was targeted that Dizzy brought up? I'm actively looking for someone to refute the logic that Dizzy put out there but until that happens I see sig as bad.

Anybody got thoughts about ted?

I'm used to him being more involved than he is in this game but I haven't seen anything that said "bad ted". Though I've never seen bad ted so take that for what it's worth. I'll read his posts if I have time today (working all day). Also, don't know why he's still voting G-Man.

Masters team = Sloonei, nutella + +
Anti monitor team = Jack +

There are a range of players who could go either way. Dom, Nanook, Jay, Epi. Heaps more tbh.

Actually piqued by the idea of Sloonei and nutella being teammates now that I've said it. They've sparred like teammates do iirc.

You're blowing up my brain so close to EOD. I haven't looked closely at Jack because I'm shit at reading him. Maybe I have time to look at him now though, or at least his ties to Radish and sabie.

My smoking gun with sig is a specific moment in his handling of Radishes: during sig’s lone Day 2 post, he suggests that he had laid out his thoughts on Radishes in an ISO somewhere, but a thorough investigation of sig’s posts reveals absolutely no substantiated read on Radishes. If there’s a slip, it’s that. It has the feel of a player who had intended to produce a bullshit case on his teammate, but then never got around to it and simply forgot that was the case.

Sloonei, just playing devils advocate, I liked this point when you first made it but couldn't it be that town sig had started making notes on a Radish case but then never presented it and thought he had? I'm just trying to make sure, Mac has shaken my resolve a bit.

MacDougall I just did a command F through Jack's ISO looking for mentions of sabie. The first mention I found of her he is saying he can't read her until late game which could be a way to avoid talking about her but then he goes on to suspect her, mentioning her in several different posts. There is one post that gives me pause even though he was joking when he replied to her by saying "Be quiet and get under the bus". Funny but hmmm.

Is your thought that he was trying to distance from her or did you have something specific in mind with regard to their connection that I couldn't see in his ISO?

lots of linki

@MacDougall I just did a command F through Jack's ISO looking for mentions of sabie. The first mention I found of her he is saying he can't read her until late game which could be a way to avoid talking about her but then he goes on to suspect her, mentioning her in several different posts. There is one post that gives me pause even though he was joking when he replied to her by saying "Be quiet and get under the bus". Funny but hmmm.

Is your thought that he was trying to distance from her or did you have something specific in mind with regard to their connection that I couldn't see in his ISO?

lots of linki

Now read her

ok

Ok Mac I read sabie. She draws the conclusion that Jack is good and votes nutella it seems without a lot of evaluation. She mentions that she will read through both their ISOs but indicates she read through Jack's and then voted for nutella (I saw nothing about her reading Nutella's ISO). When he changes his mind about nutella she says she's not surprised and she knows he sometimes does that for reaction, he's tricky like that. I'll stop there but say that I definitely see how she sides with Jack without giving due diligence to nutella.

So I do see some evidence that they are connected but I don't think it's overwhelming and it's too late in the day for me to evaluate Jack's ISO. I'm going to stay on sig today.

linki - wait did sig hint he was Lassie?

There is a ton to unpack here. I felt the need to include everything, because the sheer mass of content is itself an important factor in this assessment. juliets worked extremely hard to come to a perspective of Mac. And the result of that work looks familiar -- she stood in his corner in a way that recalls her having stood in Radish's corner. So we're left with essentially the same interaction analysis for juliets, but this time it's a lot more extensive. I straight up do not think juliets would devote this much of her time and energy to assessing her own teammate in a game where she could be hunting for real. It doesn't fit her personality as I know it, and it's not what I see here in general. I think she was wrong. Shit happens.

Compatibility: Low

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Lol don't let this exercise fool you. Jay is Mac's teammate.

(I say this based on him being so quick to dismiss my Mac "equity" as if he knows I'm innocent. I'm not sure I actually think this yet but I thought it would sound smart. I'll do some homework on it tomorrow.)

I sure do read you as innocent.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Michelle

Spoiler: show

@Michelle and @Dom probably should have the same read as me on this.

to search this "this" at 4 am is not actually possible, can you quote it please?

You played scum with Nutella when Jack nailed her out of the box on day 1 in the Aussie game. It should mean something to you because you know how she feels about it. Does what you know line up with how she is dealing with him here to you? Looking at before I called her out on it specifically.

Solely from vibe she puts more feeling here. There it was faked. Usually villagers emotions are stronger.
I would not lynch her today.
For analysing content I need day time reading and now I can't, i barely can stay with the eyes open.

I’m on record as being willing to kill drago as well

Holy shit.

Welcome Drago.

Hi, what's going on here? I'm not gonna read 35 pages.

@Nanook except he is not playing, what looks like scum for Drago?

Wait how is Nanook alive?

is this a derp attempt? o.o

Started to Iso Mac on pc but I will have to leave it so I have to post what I picked up

I put all the names in Random.org and Master Radishes came up and he's already got the most votes. Universe 1 - MR - 0.

This is awful for a champion.

Dyslexicon
Epignosis
juliets
Michelle
nutella
S~V~S

Sloonei
tedxtr
TonyStarkPrime
sprityo
Tranq
Turnip Head

ColinIsCool
Dom
Dragomir

G-Man
Jackofhearts2005
JaggedJimmyJay
Master Radishes
NANOOK
sabie12
sig
speedchuck

rainbow reads. tells to Sig they are with meme purpose

bbl at this, sorry short conclusion, I am confused by Mac

I just noticed, Radishes didn't vote in his big counter wagon on Mac. I think is important to know Mac's alignament because of that.

on Mac . .
i am idiot

Anyway I like more that wagon's composition

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

Good morning, a good one indeed ^^

Jack is bad. Sig is town.

Talk to me about these reads.

The primary reasons for reading Sig as scum are by virtue of knowing I am scum, which I am not and through interactions with dead scum, which I agree look bad but I think Jack and a few others look bad by this measure too.

Jack is revelling in this dichotomy and has somehow skated by again. I think he's bad and fostering this false dichotomy. If Sig is not Jack's partner then he is not Mafia, and I don't think Jack would be playing this way if his partner was up for lynch.

Sig is right about how it's strange that people who have tunneled me are now voting him. It reminds me of another game I played where the Mafia kept the primary mislynch bait alive and kept knocking off other civilians. I think that lynching Sig is being led by the other scum faction.

Is this a slip? Not his, but the other scum faction.

Sorry if someone said this already

I'm not getting much from this. Their interactions have been few, and that reflects Michelle's quiet game to this point. Her accusations of Mac don't make me feel anything. I highlighted the reason she provided for voting Mac; I don't entirely understand it. Her vote came about 5 hours prior to EOD. Eh. I'm not inclined to dissociate them.

Conclusion: Decent

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm gonna have to pick this up tomorrow. It's 3 in the damned morning. What am I even doing here

[Michelle]

Michelle

Spoiler: show

@Michelle and @Dom probably should have the same read as me on this.

to search this "this" at 4 am is not actually possible, can you quote it please?

You played scum with Nutella when Jack nailed her out of the box on day 1 in the Aussie game. It should mean something to you because you know how she feels about it. Does what you know line up with how she is dealing with him here to you? Looking at before I called her out on it specifically.

Solely from vibe she puts more feeling here. There it was faked. Usually villagers emotions are stronger.
I would not lynch her today.
For analysing content I need day time reading and now I can't, i barely can stay with the eyes open.

I’m on record as being willing to kill drago as well

Holy shit.

Welcome Drago.

Hi, what's going on here? I'm not gonna read 35 pages.

@Nanook except he is not playing, what looks like scum for Drago?

Wait how is Nanook alive?

is this a derp attempt? o.o

Started to Iso Mac on pc but I will have to leave it so I have to post what I picked up

I put all the names in Random.org and Master Radishes came up and he's already got the most votes. Universe 1 - MR - 0.

This is awful for a champion.

Dyslexicon
Epignosis
juliets
Michelle
nutella
S~V~S

Sloonei
tedxtr
TonyStarkPrime
sprityo
Tranq
Turnip Head

ColinIsCool
Dom
Dragomir

G-Man
Jackofhearts2005
JaggedJimmyJay
Master Radishes
NANOOK
sabie12
sig
speedchuck

rainbow reads. tells to Sig they are with meme purpose

bbl at this, sorry short conclusion, I am confused by Mac

I just noticed, Radishes didn't vote in his big counter wagon on Mac. I think is important to know Mac's alignament because of that.

on Mac . .
i am idiot

Anyway I like more that wagon's composition

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

Good morning, a good one indeed ^^

Jack is bad. Sig is town.

Talk to me about these reads.

The primary reasons for reading Sig as scum are by virtue of knowing I am scum, which I am not and through interactions with dead scum, which I agree look bad but I think Jack and a few others look bad by this measure too.

Jack is revelling in this dichotomy and has somehow skated by again. I think he's bad and fostering this false dichotomy. If Sig is not Jack's partner then he is not Mafia, and I don't think Jack would be playing this way if his partner was up for lynch.

Sig is right about how it's strange that people who have tunneled me are now voting him. It reminds me of another game I played where the Mafia kept the primary mislynch bait alive and kept knocking off other civilians. I think that lynching Sig is being led by the other scum faction.

Is this a slip? Not his, but the other scum faction.

Sorry if someone said this already

I'm not getting much from this. Their interactions have been few, and that reflects Michelle's quiet game to this point. Her accusations of Mac don't make me feel anything. I highlighted the reason she provided for voting Mac; I don't entirely understand it. Her vote came about 5 hours prior to EOD. Eh. I'm not inclined to dissociate them.

Conclusion: Decent

You found me a decent compatibility with scum Mac?

My only problem is I didn't have time to play and read. For this I know I can be pushed and mislynched at any moment in this game.
However, I am villager and I was pushing and voting for Radishes and voted for Mac.
My short explanation for voting Mac was because I thought he may be another member of Radishes team because he avoided to self press by voting Mac who was his counter wagon. My conclusion was wrong but doesn't make me wolf.
And my play time in day 3 for finding the wagon to vote in was 22 mins until I voted and around 30 mins overall in the moment I voted - and little presence at Sod, being a potato for all the day. I let the vote parked on Mac and went to sleep. What evidence do you need for me never being scum with Mac than this?
I also looked at the wagons and I trusted more the players who voted for Mac, mostly because of the gut reads I have from what I read.
The decision to vote was genuine and I am ok with your mistrust, because I know I am innocent. My flip would prove this but I hope you don't need it and you will keep search for scum.

[Turnip Head]

A Close Call

The heroes made their way through the Anti-matter realm until they found one of the Anti-Monitor's fortresses. Stealthily, they entered, making their way to a control room.

"Look at these screens," said Agatha. " I think that they are monitoring different places in our universes. Look, I can see Castle Heterodyne!"

"Maybe there's a way for us to get back when we're done here," suggested Abed tentatively.

The Jack of all trades chuckled grimly. " I'm not sure any of us ever getting back there, my friend. Let's complete the mission in save the Multiverse first."

"Look!" cried the Awards Presenter. "He's even got one in the Monitor's base!" As they watched, they could see Mac creeping through the shadows, a wicked knife in his hands.

"We have to try and get a warning to the Monitor!" cried the Oracle. "One of these buttons or levers has to do something, right?"

She began pushing and twisting difference knobs and buttons, as Mac crept closer and closer to the Monitor's exposed back. Just before he was close enough to attack, one of the levers caused bright flare within the Monitor's base.

The monitor turned around just in time, and his eyes widened as he held up a hand and blasted Mac to tiny particles with a bright flare of energy.

The heroes breathed a collective sigh of relief, and moved on with their mission to find and destroy the Anti-Monitor.

Macdougall has been lynched! He was Saitama, a baddie on the Master's team, from One Post Mafia by speedchuck.

Night 3 has begun!

[S~V~S]

While I am glad Mac was bad, I think it's gonna be a tough row to hoe now to lynch sig, and I think Dizzys theory is 100% true. I think it would have been easier to lynch sig first, then Mac. But meh.

Manipulate away manipulators, last night was kinda demoralizing for me, I will be back after the night post, maybe even tomorrow AM.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’m not sure why mac flipping the exact role that he is required to be for the “sig slipped” theory to make sense makes it harder to kill Sig, not easier?

I also don’t super understand the demoralization given we just killed a pretty nasty scum role, tbh

[Michelle]

But we need it to be more than that.

Michelle? speedchuck?

What?

we were looking for people to join the sig wagon for mechanical reasons.

I'm pressed for time. I'd like more than 'mechanical reasons' as an explanation.

but [VOTE: Sig] aubergine

If sig is mafia he has a 50% chance of starting the day with -2 votes on him. If we are inclined to lynch him and neutralize his team today, it is ideal to give him a comfortable lead in the poll.

Was this a way to try to save Mac from the lynch? I have to read to understand but I think it's better to ask.

[Michelle]

I’m not sure why mac flipping the exact role that he is required to be for the “sig slipped” theory to make sense makes it harder to kill Sig, not easier?

I also don’t super understand the demoralization given we just killed a pretty nasty scum role, tbh

Who is demoralized? Game state is good, we have to keep it up!

[Michelle]

Timing is good. Audrey (my first born) just got admitted to hospital. Good luck to my team. Well done to my adversaries.

Wish your kid to be well, this is worrisome

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’m not sure why mac flipping the exact role that he is required to be for the “sig slipped” theory to make sense makes it harder to kill Sig, not easier?

I also don’t super understand the demoralization given we just killed a pretty nasty scum role, tbh

Who is demoralized? Game state is good, we have to keep it up!

SvS said they were.

Personally I’m at the point where I start getting impatient and wanting to move the game along lol

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I kinda still think SvS is mafia tbh

[juliets]

sig's still a top suspect.

I don't understand Sloonei.

Nothing about mac’s flip changes anything about my read on sig. Why would this have changed?

I'm tired, I'll think it through tomorrow.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] I don't know what I was thinking last night. I shouldn't mafia when I'm so tired.

Now I'm going to catch up.

[Michelle]

Wagons of the lynches - the days final vote counts here:

Day 1 :
1 Dizzy - Tony
1 Jack - Spityo
1 JJJ - Radishes
6 Radishes - JJJ, Ted, Svs, Michelle, Sloonei, Dizzy
1 Nanook01 - Sig
6 Nutella01 - Nanook01, Turnip, Sabie, Jack, Mac, Dom
2 Speed - Epi, Nutella01

Day 2

1 GMan - Ted
7 Mac - Speed, Sig, Jack, Dom, Sabie, Sprityo, Nanook02
9 Radishes - Tony, JJJ, Svs, Sloonei, Epi, Juliets, Mac, Colin, Turnip
2 Sloonei - Dizzy, GMan
3 Turnip - Michelle, Tranq, Radishes

Day 3

2 Jack - Turnip, Mac
10 Mac - Ted, Tony, GMan, Jack, Michelle, Nanook, Sig, Sprityo, Epi, Tranq
8 Sig - Colin, Svs, Sloonei, Dom, Speed, Nutella02, JJJ, Juliets

[sprityo]

Wagons of the lynches - the days final vote counts here:

Day 1 :
1 Dizzy - Tony
1 Jack - Spityo
1 JJJ - Radishes
6 Radishes - JJJ, Ted, Svs, Michelle, Sloonei, Dizzy
1 Nanook01 - Sig
6 Nutella01 - Nanook01, Turnip, Sabie, Jack, Mac, Dom
2 Speed - Epi, Nutella01

Day 2

1 GMan - Ted
7 Mac - Speed, Sig, Jack, Dom, Sabie, Sprityo, Nanook02
9 Radishes - Tony, JJJ, Svs, Sloonei, Epi, Juliets, Mac, Colin, Turnip
2 Sloonei - Dizzy, GMan
3 Turnip - Michelle, Tranq, Radishes

Day 3

2 Jack - Turnip, Mac
10 Mac - Ted, Tony, GMan, Jack, Michelle, Nanook, Sig, Sprityo, Epi, Tranq
8 Sig - Colin, Svs, Sloonei, Dom, Speed, Nutella02, JJJ, Juliets

While I don’t doubt dizzy was likely town, she isn’t confirmed town because of the janitor kill.

[juliets]

If you think progression makes no sense that I'm on other team with my reads. People are set to tunnel and mislynch me it seems


I called out Mac sinde I knew for a fact he'd be the type to silence me then looking over roles I brought up that theory if his exact role. I also knew he'd be the most likely to direct his power.

Again this was paired with who started to pursue him even more after night 1 was up.

The fact I'm still only being suspected for a fake slip is shit honesty. Especially since people keep saying it isn't that but rolling right back to it and it alone. When there are so many other more obvious reasons.

sig, to make sure I understand here, when you say there are "so many other more obvious reasons" you are alluding to info roles that would tell you both Mac was the one being targeted. Are there any other obvious reasons that I'm not thinking about?

Anyone that still wants to turn around and just lunch me after a combination of being on mac forever. And probably being pushed by his teammates plus the fact the scum read on me is bad to begin with. Anyone who wants to focus on me is probably scum over Mac and his team.

I want to lynch you. Your argument is invalid.

No town role could know what you knew.

I'm stuck on this point so if there's anyone who can explain how he knew what he knew from a town perspective I need you to help me understand it. sig can't really help because he can't tell us what town role would know that if it's him.

Hey guys just wanna catch up here a bitty bit.

Mac is still a person who could survive a nightkill but isn't who sig 'slipped' him to be? Or even on the same team?

How would we parse that? My sig suspicion remains independent of the 'slip', but it's a lot weaker without it.

This is actually a terrible look for Speed.

I'm not concerned about that. I've kept up with the game enough to think Mac was going to flip Anti-Monitor. I was surprised to see Saitama.

Saitama is exactly the role sig said he thought Mac was though back on d2 and the one that makes sense with all the theories. But ok.

Yea it reeks for speed honestly. I've been going after this and specifically this role forever.

And you expect me to have read any of those posts... why?

I skimmed Dizzy's post, then voted. After the lynch, I saw Sloonei and Juliets having a conversation like this:

"Sloonei is still a prime suspect."
"I don't get it, why?"

And I'm like WTF did something not go as planned? Mac seems to have flipped scum. What's going on?

So I asked.

I'm sorry speed, my brain was just fogged in. I completely understand why Sloonei would say sig is still the prime suspect. I confused you with my tiredness.

Hey @Sloonei

Sig is a foregone conclusion.

I wanna know what you think about Turnip Head.

Town. Reasons well documented.

Wrong answer.

I mean really gets the WIFOM ball rolling on the Mac/Sloonei/TH/Juliets team thing.

This makes me laugh.

Jack is literally just harping nonsense at this point not surprising.

Sloonie yea you have a case and I'll cop to nutella using that. However, you can't ignore that most ppl are voting based off dizzy and in doing so ignoring meta.

sig, I don't remember anything about your meta except that you get lynched a lot early game. I will happily look at other games you have played where you are civ and bad to compare. I think the only game were you've been bad here was Girl Genius. Name me a game that you think is representative of your civ play especially with respect to saying the kind of thing you said about Mac. I am willing to reassess my stance on you today since I have the time and your appeals are many but I need someone also to help me with my question above about you're knowing about Mac. Edit: I just see where you posted the role analysis of how info could have been had on Mac so I will review those options.

Also re roles I'm not saying I had one or jad info but I'm dispelling this right now since it really seems like ppl here are just flat out ignoring shit to push my lybch.
You could.
1. Cop check mac
2. Track Mac
3. Track his killer
4. Watch mac
5. Use an item.
6. Watch myself

There off the top of my head 6 things which is like 7 roles and the one item.

So let's dispel the whole TMI shit. Since really that's shit that multiple people are going back to.

On top of that and I feel like a broken clock here. Is the meta thinG around the slip. Which is a big thing and falls within civ meta.

I'll address sloonie post tomorrow and clear that angle up as well.

Linki: lots of them.

And absolutely none of that says what role Mac is or that he was targeted for a kill.

Hmm ok. I'll still take an independent look so I can see for myself.

I'm going to go back and look at Jay's analysis. I skipped it for the moment.

I'm not working today so I just have the gym mid-day so I should be around a lot. I do need to try and get a few things done around the house, this game really sucks up my time.

[ColinIsCool]

The absolute scenes when Mac/Sig join forces against the real enemy.

Fun!

@all

Let's have a trustfall exclusively for Jack. Do more people if you want, but I'm asking about Jack. What's the best argument that he is a civilian?

That emotional outburst of his at the beginning of the game.

I have wavered on it some as evidence has linked him to radishes/sabie. The emotion could have been a result of having a genuine suspicion as scum in a multiball game, but being suspected for it anyway.

I am almost positive Jack had a similar emotional outburst (against Glorfindel?) in a game where he turned out to be scum. Almost positive, maybe somebody else remembers? So I don’t think it points to him as town at all.

[Michelle]

I think is not a crime I colored Dizzy green

[Jackofhearts2005]

I disagree with [mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention]’s Epi read.

The highlighted parts in particular are aimed at Sig, calling him unconvincing which he was and aimed at me saying that he hadn’t seen the Mac case which seems to be before I really put my foot on the gas pedal.

I’m not 100% ruling out Epi as Mac’s partner but I’m sure there are better suspects to be had there.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Doing this janky cause I’m on my phone

[mention]juliets[/mention]

Haven’t read the rest of your post yet, but this part sticks out:

“I'm stuck on this point so if there's anyone who can explain how he knew what he knew from a town perspective I need you to help me understand it. sig can't really help because he can't tell us what town role would know that if it's him.”

We already talked about the potential for him to be lassie, right?

[Jackofhearts2005]

The absolute scenes when Mac/Sig join forces against the real enemy.

Fun!

@all

Let's have a trustfall exclusively for Jack. Do more people if you want, but I'm asking about Jack. What's the best argument that he is a civilian?

That emotional outburst of his at the beginning of the game.

I have wavered on it some as evidence has linked him to radishes/sabie. The emotion could have been a result of having a genuine suspicion as scum in a multiball game, but being suspected for it anyway.

I am almost positive Jack had a similar emotional outburst (against Glorfindel?) in a game where he turned out to be scum. Almost positive, maybe somebody else remembers? So I don’t think it points to him as town at all.

Yeah, that was a thing. Glor grinds my gears. He does not play the game in my personal concept of the spirit of the game and in particular, his play lead to him imo unfairly escaping lynch and my teammate LC unfairly being lynched in his place.

So you can pull that into two bits. I am capable of exhibiting emotional outbursts as scum. I had an emotional outburst when something bad happened to my wolf team.

Inform year read with that.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

There’s also just the chance that sig was so sure that mac was the only one who could’ve/would’ve silenced him* that the rest followed from there. It’s not unlike sig to be utterly convinced of a bit of an out there theory.


*it might be possible he self watched with the watcher dingbot too, but idk if self watching is a thing here or not

[juliets]

Doing this janky cause I’m on my phone

@juliets

Haven’t read the rest of your post yet, but this part sticks out:

“I'm stuck on this point so if there's anyone who can explain how he knew what he knew from a town perspective I need you to help me understand it. sig can't really help because he can't tell us what town role would know that if it's him.”

We already talked about the potential for him to be lassie, right?

Yes but tell me if I am thinking about this wrong. The Lassie role would tell him who Mac was but it wouldn't tell him Mac was targeted on the night no one died would it? What am I missing?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Oh. I twisted my emotional outburst to be

I am annoyed Glor was imo cheating because it screwed my team over -> I am annoyed Glor was imo cheating because it spoils what looked like a potential clean win.

I think the former shone through. That might inform your read here.

This was in DDL’s Hogwarts game.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Lol don't let this exercise fool you. Jay is Mac's teammate.





(I say this based on him being so quick to dismiss my Mac "equity" as if he knows I'm innocent. I'm not sure I actually think this yet but I thought it would sound smart. I'll do some homework on it tomorrow.)

Lol yeah this sounds really smart.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Dom went fairly hard after teammate jack in the wire. Wouldn’t say it’s out of their range.

That said the volume is pretty noticeably different.

?

When I replaced in, it was just me and you?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Doing this janky cause I’m on my phone

@juliets

Haven’t read the rest of your post yet, but this part sticks out:

“I'm stuck on this point so if there's anyone who can explain how he knew what he knew from a town perspective I need you to help me understand it. sig can't really help because he can't tell us what town role would know that if it's him.”

We already talked about the potential for him to be lassie, right?

Yes but tell me if I am thinking about this wrong. The Lassie role would tell him who Mac was but it wouldn't tell him Mac was targeted on the night no one died would it? What am I missing?

No, but it’s a logical leap to make. Like, once you know mac is scum it’s not all that big of a leap for Sig to be like “oh I got silenced, mac is mafia and would 100% silence me....wait he probably got targeted N1 and that’s why nobody died.”

Like it’s not that big of a jump to make once he knows mac is mafia

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Dom went fairly hard after teammate jack in the wire. Wouldn’t say it’s out of their range.

That said the volume is pretty noticeably different.

?

When I replaced in, it was just me and you?

I thought you were there from the beginning?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’m reasonably sure you were and jay replaced out for sloonei

[juliets]

Doing this janky cause I’m on my phone

@juliets

Haven’t read the rest of your post yet, but this part sticks out:

“I'm stuck on this point so if there's anyone who can explain how he knew what he knew from a town perspective I need you to help me understand it. sig can't really help because he can't tell us what town role would know that if it's him.”

We already talked about the potential for him to be lassie, right?

Yes but tell me if I am thinking about this wrong. The Lassie role would tell him who Mac was but it wouldn't tell him Mac was targeted on the night no one died would it? What am I missing?

No, but it’s a logical leap to make. Like, once you know mac is scum it’s not all that big of a leap for Sig to be like “oh I got silenced, mac is mafia and would 100% silence me....wait he probably got targeted N1 and that’s why nobody died.”

Like it’s not that big of a jump to make once he knows mac is mafia

Ok I'll look at it again with that in mind.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Idk I mean I’m wary of hard defending sig just because I had a very similar situation in Inception that fooled me, but like....it honestly doesn’t seem like that huge of a leap to me.

Especially since nobody cared about sig insisting that mac silenced him, but it’s a slip when he says Mac was probably NKed N1? Like...it’s a really small step from one to the other, especially for someone like sig that loves a good conspiracy theory

Then again maybe I’m the idiot arguing that the outed mafia isn’t outed, idk

[Jackofhearts2005]

I straight up do not think juliets would devote this much of her time and energy to assessing her own teammate in a game where she could be hunting for real.

Generally agreed. In particular, when Mac was in deep trouble and not likely to get out of it for being busy with Audrey, she continued to make honest sounding inquiries of him. It could be staged but it would have had to be a one woman play, which is difficult wolf theatre.