Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay: Pushes three bad lynches in a row.
Also Jay: People who townread Epi are clueless.


That's not a townie mindset.

Oh I may absolutely be clueless, but so are people who let the winningest mafioso in Syndicate history glide through a game fast asleep despite there being plenty of evidence against him and a gaping hole in the Dom theory.

[Jackofhearts2005]

[mention]Michelle[/mention] [mention]juliets[/mention] [mention]Sloonei[/mention] [mention]tedxtr[/mention]

Like look at the things Jay says and ask yourself

"Is this a player who is getting fooled left and right and is about to lose the game after his teammate basically gave the whole team the middle finger or is this a player that is trying to push the next mislynch/antispew?"

Because I'm seeing Juliets being upset. I'm seeing Michelle being upset. I'm seeing Speed being upset. Maybe those things are faked but Jay's throwing out smiley emojis and giving life advice like everything's going according to plan. Cause it is. Cause he's a wolf and he can't help it.

I don't know how to be any more convincing than this. It's right in front of your faces. Probably two of you have alignment reasons to not listen but the other two of you ought to.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What an absolute blunder by me

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The greatest source of my current pleasure is that, despite the miserable state of this game, I know that when it's over Jack is going to feel like a dope. I can be petty too.

[Sloonei]

If the POE insists that I must be bad then the POE is wrong.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If the POE insists that I must be bad then the POE is wrong.

Could be. I sort of expected you to yell at me, at least with your Sloonei voice, about that out-of-nowhere read. So I'm probably right

[Jackofhearts2005]

The greatest source of my current pleasure is that, despite the miserable state of this game, I know that when it's over Jack is going to feel like a dope. I can be petty too.

I wouldn't even feel like a dope if you were town.

I'd just be like



But if I let you lynch 4 townies in a row, boy would I feel stupid.

[juliets]

What an absolute blunder by me

Why aren't you incensed by someone on your team self-voting like that, at that point of the game? I'm pretty low key about most things but I'm beside myself over that move.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In truth, it's demoralizing to be in a thread filled with people who are preparing to pitchfork me, knowing full well that it will lose the game and that I am not entirely sure how to fix it. So I cope by being silly. I'm a silly boy.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What an absolute blunder by me

Why aren't you incensed by someone on your team self-voting like that, at that point of the game? I'm pretty low key about most things but I'm beside myself over that move.

I was upset last night. We have to move on with our lives. It's a game, and I like G-Man. He's good people. Whatever. I don't want this shitty Mafia attitude overshadowing that.

[Sloonei]

If the POE insists that I must be bad then the POE is wrong.

Could be. I sort of expected you to yell at me, at least with your Sloonei voice, about that out-of-nowhere read. So I'm probably right

I am yelling. Look how angry I am.

I don't see it as out-of-nowhere. I've been forced to reconsider my read on you. It makes sense to reconsider me as well. The POE is wrong if it includes me, and you may be fully aware of that. Walk me through why speedchuck can't be bad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If the POE insists that I must be bad then the POE is wrong.

Could be. I sort of expected you to yell at me, at least with your Sloonei voice, about that out-of-nowhere read. So I'm probably right

I am yelling. Look how angry I am.

I don't see it as out-of-nowhere. I've been forced to reconsider my read on you. It makes sense to reconsider me as well. The POE is wrong if it includes me, and you may be fully aware of that. Walk me through why speedchuck can't be bad.

He "can" be. I don't know. This is one of those shit sandwiches where an unfortunate incident incites an emotional response skirting the boundaries of Standard Mafia Posts, and it impacts reads. speedchuck despises appeal to emotion as a mafioso move more than anyone, and his outburst last night would represent a serious violation of that principle. I am not sure he allows himself to say what he said if he is evil, or if the G-Man lynch benefits him.

[Sloonei]

Jay, Sloonei, and probably Ted are still mafia. My reads are the same. Screw this game. Screw the unwillingness of anyone on this stupid forum to lynch Jay when he's pumping out worthless content because 'other players are posting less'.

And screw self-voting as well.

I assume this is what you are talking about. I'm less familiar with speedchuck's anti-emotional stance. This post is not enough to remove him from my POE, and it's possible the emotion is genuine but he's still bad in a multiball game. I'm not sure if he'd be aligned with mac in that scenario though. So I guess if the POE is just for that team then it might make sense.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay, Sloonei, and probably Ted are still mafia. My reads are the same. Screw this game. Screw the unwillingness of anyone on this stupid forum to lynch Jay when he's pumping out worthless content because 'other players are posting less'.

And screw self-voting as well.

I assume this is what you are talking about. I'm less familiar with speedchuck's anti-emotional stance. This post is not enough to remove him from my POE, and it's possible the emotion is genuine but he's still bad in a multiball game. I'm not sure if he'd be aligned with mac in that scenario though. So I guess if the POE is just for that team then it might make sense.

That's the post. His stance on that issue stems largely from the first Phenon: Origins game, where I won as a mafioso at the very last minute by hurling out desperate pleas. So it fits perfectly that his anger here would be so incited when specifically JaggedJimmyJay is the one perceived to be "pumping out worthless content". I don't think the multiple mafia teams angle even works. Neither mafia team would be genuinely outraged by the G-Man lynch or the Not-JJJ lynch. Even if it doesn't play to their advantage (it definitely does), the mindset underlying their hunt is very different.

[juliets]

Jay, Sloonei, and probably Ted are still mafia. My reads are the same. Screw this game. Screw the unwillingness of anyone on this stupid forum to lynch Jay when he's pumping out worthless content because 'other players are posting less'.

And screw self-voting as well.

I assume this is what you are talking about. I'm less familiar with speedchuck's anti-emotional stance. This post is not enough to remove him from my POE, and it's possible the emotion is genuine but he's still bad in a multiball game. I'm not sure if he'd be aligned with mac in that scenario though. So I guess if the POE is just for that team then it might make sense.

So you think he is the Anti-Monitor or just faking it? It doesn't sound fake to me but what do I know.

[Sloonei]

Jay, Sloonei, and probably Ted are still mafia. My reads are the same. Screw this game. Screw the unwillingness of anyone on this stupid forum to lynch Jay when he's pumping out worthless content because 'other players are posting less'.

And screw self-voting as well.

I assume this is what you are talking about. I'm less familiar with speedchuck's anti-emotional stance. This post is not enough to remove him from my POE, and it's possible the emotion is genuine but he's still bad in a multiball game. I'm not sure if he'd be aligned with mac in that scenario though. So I guess if the POE is just for that team then it might make sense.

So you think he is the Anti-Monitor or just faking it? It doesn't sound fake to me but what do I know.

I doubt it was faked. Even without knowing speedchuck has a specific objection to emotional pleas, he doesn't seem like the type to say unkind things for the sake of scoring points in a game. But given the situation right now I'm not totally willing to dismiss him as a suspect for this. To be clear, it helps his case. It just does not completely absolve him in my eyes.

I don't have an answer to things right now. This game has kind of been back-burnered for me the last few days. I hope I have a chance to do solving things later. This isn't unwinnable.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I would like to pat myself on the back for never using that silly term for multiple mafia teams in this game or any other game. Crusty curmudgeon for life.

[Sloonei]

Jack and juliets are never teamed with Mac. That's about all I'm comfortable saying at this point.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I feel like I have a very difference feeling about what is fair in mafia.

I just want players to do their best to play to their wincon and to the spirit of the game and if I'm hosting, for them to do whatever I'm trying to psychologically manipulate them into doing.

Like if someone fools me, that's impressive, that's fun. Basically no matter how they did it.

I only get upset when my team doesn't play to their wincon or when players break the spirit of the rules like "not claiming" wink wink.

If I can't convince people a baddie is mafia, then they outplayed me. It's frustrating now but it's not frustrating when the game ends. It shows their skill and everyone involved (hopefully) becomes a better player for it. If a wolf fools me here, they outplayed me. Hopefully I become a better player for it.

I'm perfectly happy to lose when I'm outplayed. I don't like losing to someone who isn't playing by the rules or because someone on my team threw.

That is to say, I don't mind emotional outbursts from wolves.

I'm not Speedchuck though. Not entirely.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In Fallout 1 you can convince The Master to blow himself up at the end of the game. I recommend we give that a try.

[Sloonei]

In the original Fallout Mafia Tony, mac, and sabie were the mafia team. Two out of three down.

[juliets]

It occurs to me I'm been called incompetent, stupid, and clueless all in this one game.

[Jackofhearts2005]

It occurs to me I'm been called incompetent, stupid, and clueless all in this one game.

See, me suspecting your is a compliment.

[juliets]

It occurs to me I'm been called incompetent, stupid, and clueless all in this one game.

See, me suspecting your is a compliment.

Lol

[speedchuck]

I feel like I have a very difference feeling about what is fair in mafia.

I just want players to do their best to play to their wincon and to the spirit of the game and if I'm hosting, for them to do whatever I'm trying to psychologically manipulate them into doing.

Like if someone fools me, that's impressive, that's fun. Basically no matter how they did it.

I only get upset when my team doesn't play to their wincon or when players break the spirit of the rules like "not claiming" wink wink.

If I can't convince people a baddie is mafia, then they outplayed me. It's frustrating now but it's not frustrating when the game ends. It shows their skill and everyone involved (hopefully) becomes a better player for it. If a wolf fools me here, they outplayed me. Hopefully I become a better player for it.

I'm perfectly happy to lose when I'm outplayed. I don't like losing to someone who isn't playing by the rules or because someone on my team threw.

That is to say, I don't mind emotional outbursts from wolves.

I'm not Speedchuck though. Not entirely.

It's not so much that I hate them and hate people for doing them. It's that I always lose when people listen to them.

Jay has me pretty much right on the number. I don't remember most of the mafia games I've played, but I am still salty that I ruined Phenon Mafia by handing the entire scumteam over on a silver platter in the best-used role I've ever had, and then Jay won by saying 'please don't lynch me I don't wanna lose.'
Ever since then I have despised AtE, not hating the player for the strategy, but desperately against listening to it.

And yes that makes me a giant freaking hypocrite that I emotioned about Jay skating by. There were a lot of things piled up at that point.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Lol Imma try something.

"Please lynch Jay I don't want to lose."

[juliets]

Maybe everyone is just tense because of rl and that's affecting our play.

[juliets]

Also, cute kitty.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay won by saying 'please don't lynch me I don't wanna lose.'

Hey now, my pleas were more sophisticated than that.

[juliets]

[mention]Long Con[/mention] when will the night end?

[speedchuck]

Jay won by saying 'please don't lynch me I don't wanna lose.'

Hey now, my pleas were more sophisticated than that.

'So much effort c'mon guys we can't let it end like this please I'll buy you a milkshake'

[Epignosis]

I refuse to buy anybody a milkshake.

[Michelle]

@Michelle @juliets @Sloonei @tedxtr

Like look at the things Jay says and ask yourself

"Is this a player who is getting fooled left and right and is about to lose the game after his teammate basically gave the whole team the middle finger or is this a player that is trying to push the next mislynch/antispew?"

Because I'm seeing Juliets being upset. I'm seeing Michelle being upset. I'm seeing Speed being upset. Maybe those things are faked but Jay's throwing out smiley emojis and giving life advice like everything's going according to plan. Cause it is. Cause he's a wolf and he can't help it.

I don't know how to be any more convincing than this. It's right in front of your faces. Probably two of you have alignment reasons to not listen but the other two of you ought to.

I am thinking at the 3 townies who litteraly gave up and the last one threw the game for a reason I don't understand.
I can't see a good part in JJJ now. Not at all.

All that he says is fitting a wolf profile from what i learned from my mentor. It's interesting how Jack used similar words without knowing this.

Jay putting my name in orange and working with a fake Poe is a bad thing. He is not teamworking with any villager, he is dictating reads. It would be sad to be a villager with this kind of behaviour.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay putting my name in orange and working with a fake Poe is a bad thing. He is not teamworking with any villager, he is dictating reads. It would be sad to be a villager with this kind of behaviour.

You may not be mafia Michelle. I dunno. I just have to identify a Master team of three in a limited field. Contrary to popular belief, I'm not in there.

[Michelle]

Jay won by saying 'please don't lynch me I don't wanna lose.'

Hey now, my pleas were more sophisticated than that.

Since you recognise this, it's obvious they were fake pleas

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay won by saying 'please don't lynch me I don't wanna lose.'

Hey now, my pleas were more sophisticated than that.

Since you recognise this, it's obvious they were fake pleas

I was referring to a different game

[Michelle]

Jay putting my name in orange and working with a fake Poe is a bad thing. He is not teamworking with any villager, he is dictating reads. It would be sad to be a villager with this kind of behaviour.

You may not be mafia Michelle. I dunno. I just have to identify a Master team of three in a limited field. Contrary to popular belief, I'm not in there.

Just don't. I may not be? Why not? Why "may"?
Why couldn't you notice that with accusing me I am the 4th villager you want killed? A villager can't do this.
After I asked you to self press you should know I didn't do this with ill intention and as mafia. My play was villagery in an obvious way. Still, you Poe me. You have no choice but to Poe me because you need to.
Gosh you got me mad -_-

[JaggedJimmyJay]

When I just flat as myself "do I believe it's reasonably likely this players is mafia?"

Epi - yes
Jack - no
juliets - no
Michelle - yes
Sloonei - yes
speedchuck - no
tedxtr - yes
TonyStarkPrime - yes
Tranq - yes

3 of those 6 yes names are probably Masters, and it's not easy to indicate which ones. There are avenues to explore compatibility within that field, and I figure I'll give it a shot assuming I'm left alive here. I don't know if it will matter in the end given that I appear to be a walking corpse, but you never know. Maybe the game will somehow still be winnable given two-team dynamics.

[Michelle]

is 4:22. am. sorry if have typos or grammar errors.

[Michelle]

When I just flat as myself "do I believe it's reasonably likely this players is mafia?"

Epi - yes
Jack - no
juliets - no
Michelle - yes
Sloonei - yes
speedchuck - no
tedxtr - yes
TonyStarkPrime - yes
Tranq - yes

3 of those 6 yes names are probably Masters, and it's not easy to indicate which ones. There are avenues to explore compatibility within that field, and I figure I'll give it a shot assuming I'm left alive here. I don't know if it will matter in the end given that I appear to be a walking corpse, but you never know. Maybe the game will somehow still be winnable given two-team dynamics.

You and your avenues man..
tell me how you changed your speed read.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay putting my name in orange and working with a fake Poe is a bad thing. He is not teamworking with any villager, he is dictating reads. It would be sad to be a villager with this kind of behaviour.

You may not be mafia Michelle. I dunno. I just have to identify a Master team of three in a limited field. Contrary to popular belief, I'm not in there.

Just don't. I may not be? Why not? Why "may"?
Why couldn't you notice that with accusing me I am the 4th villager you want killed? A villager can't do this.
After I asked you to self press you should know I didn't do this with ill intention and as mafia. My play was villagery in an obvious way. Still, you Poe me. You have no choice but to Poe me because you need to.
Gosh you got me mad -_-

If you're telling me that I should see a clear civilian in you, I do not. I do think you look authentic, and your hunt has been valuable. Still, the only thing I can absolutely say about you is that you're not the Anti-Monitor.

If you're a civilian then you'll understand where I'm coming from when the game is over. I know something very important that no other civilians know right now -- that I am not on the Master team. That means my attempts to solve the game are going to look different, and they are going to be challenged by the circumstances. Whoever those three are, they've done a great job. It's going to be difficult to identify them.

[Michelle]

Jay won by saying 'please don't lynch me I don't wanna lose.'

Hey now, my pleas were more sophisticated than that.

Since you recognise this, it's obvious they were fake pleas

I was referring to a different game

it fits here too. Glad you posted it

[juliets]

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] this afternoon when you published your list you said you would be surprised if Tony was Masters. Now you are saying he is likely to be mafia. What changed?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You and your avenues man..
tell me how you changed your speed read.

My "avenues". Hell, that speed read is a good indicator that I am really trying here. He's not going to feel any better about me for that. He's not going to be "pocketed". I can't worry about that. I can only provide the best reads that I have been able to make at present.

speedchuck is unlikely to be a mafioso because it would fly in the face of one of his core standards about how the game should be played. His outburst last night is not his mafia style. It's the dead opposite.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JaggedJimmyJay this afternoon when you published your list you said you would be surprised if Tony was Masters. Now you are saying he is likely to be mafia. What changed?

That's an error. Tony is my top civilian read.

[Michelle]

Jay putting my name in orange and working with a fake Poe is a bad thing. He is not teamworking with any villager, he is dictating reads. It would be sad to be a villager with this kind of behaviour.

You may not be mafia Michelle. I dunno. I just have to identify a Master team of three in a limited field. Contrary to popular belief, I'm not in there.

Just don't. I may not be? Why not? Why "may"?
Why couldn't you notice that with accusing me I am the 4th villager you want killed? A villager can't do this.
After I asked you to self press you should know I didn't do this with ill intention and as mafia. My play was villagery in an obvious way. Still, you Poe me. You have no choice but to Poe me because you need to.
Gosh you got me mad -_-

If you're telling me that I should see a clear civilian in you, I do not. I do think you look authentic, and your hunt has been valuable. Still, the only thing I can absolutely say about you is that you're not the Anti-Monitor.

If you're a civilian then you'll understand where I'm coming from when the game is over. I know something very important that no other civilians know right now -- that I am not on the Master team. That means my attempts to solve the game are going to look different, and they are going to be challenged by the circumstances. Whoever those three are, they've done a great job. It's going to be difficult to identify them.

I'm villager.
Why are you not in master team yourself?

[juliets]

@JaggedJimmyJay this afternoon when you published your list you said you would be surprised if Tony was Masters. Now you are saying he is likely to be mafia. What changed?

That's an error. Tony is my top civilian read.

Ok thanks.

[Michelle]

You and your avenues man..
tell me how you changed your speed read.

My "avenues". Hell, that speed read is a good indicator that I am really trying here. He's not going to feel any better about me for that. He's not going to be "pocketed". I can't worry about that. I can only provide the best reads that I have been able to make at present.

speedchuck is unlikely to be a mafioso because it would fly in the face of one of his core standards about how the game should be played. His outburst last night is not his mafia style. It's the dead opposite.

I see you're saying Speed gave you his towntell.
I reffuse to believe you think I am mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm villager.
Why are you not in master team yourself?

It's not what my role card says. I can attempt to provide a more useful answer to that question, but the onus will be on you to actually listen to me and check my content.

I did not vote for Mac because I felt both Radishes and sig were more suspicious. And they both flipped mafia -- I wasn't "wrong". However, if you review the things I said to and about Mac (and the reverse) up to the point that he died, there is evidence available to you that I am not his teammate. I was never in his camp, and I harbored plenty of suspicion of him too. You'll have to take it or leave it, but only once you've looked at it.

[Michelle]

Ok. So Jay is wolf based on behaviour and you suspect Sloonei as his team mate.
These were exactly my town reads and now I have to change them to trust you.

Talk to me about everyone please. I have to read few pages and I should return to reread, I dropped that because I worked yesterday and I am sorry.

Forget Sloonei.

Why do you trust Jay?

aI trusted his effort to be villagery. But i see is not relevant