Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[juliets]

Maybe it’s Tranq and Juliets

But it's not. See Jack's, Dom's, Epi's and Jay's reads.

[speedchuck]

Tranq, if I recall, spent a large portion of the midgame with a laser like focus on Sloonei. No one really picked up the case, but that’s either strong teammate protection or Tranq isn’t scum

I'll look. He only has 40-some posts, shouldn't be hard to find.

It'd be surprising for Jay to have missed that in his analysis.

[juliets]

There is something else you are missing about Tranq but I don't want to make him a NK target.

[Tranq]

I don’t think it’s Ted so now I’m 50/50 even with my other town reads on the table.

Jay really wanted to clear speed for the AtE thing but I’m not buying it.

Speed and ... Juliets?
Or you but I think focusing on the second kill is really weird and I like it

Can you explain why you don't think it's Ted?

[speedchuck]

Tranq, if I recall, spent a large portion of the midgame with a laser like focus on Sloonei. No one really picked up the case, but that’s either strong teammate protection or Tranq isn’t scum

I went back and looked.

Heck no.

Tranq placed Sloonei consistently 3rd in his top scumreads and associated Jay with him later. Textbook distancing and soft-scumreading. No reasons ever given, really. No.

[speedchuck]

There is something else you are missing about Tranq but I don't want to make him a NK target.

Would you rather him be a lynch target?

[TonyStarkPrime]

There is something else you are missing about Tranq but I don't want to make him a NK target.

Nice work

[speedchuck]

At this point in the game, it doesn't matter who gets nightkilled. It matters that we narrow down who scum is.

[speedchuck]

What?

[juliets]

There is something else you are missing about Tranq but I don't want to make him a NK target.

Would you rather him be a lynch target?

No. He is trying to tell you though why he is civ.

[speedchuck]

I'm assuming it's role related and thus I'm not getting it at all.

I'll try to figure it out.

[juliets]

I'm assuming it's role related and thus I'm not getting it at all.

I'll try to figure it out.

Ok good. I think you will see it.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Alright.

[mention]S~V~S[/mention].

You probably haven’t been tracking much, but can you look at the current player list and give me the name of one person on that list who is town. Or tell me that Juliets was wrong and Dys was town if you would prefer.

[tedxtr]

Juliets, my most recent game is one in which I got lynched Day one as scum. I could give it to you but I don't think it really helps you with anything, still want it?

[juliets]

Juliets, my most recent game is one in which I got lynched Day one as scum. I could give it to you but I don't think it really helps you with anything, still want it?

No, that's ok ted I think you're right it wouldn't help me much.

[speedchuck]

Possible remaining roles: (for myself)

Civilians

The Monitor - You cannot be nightkilled by regular means. By the end of Day 1, you will choose two players to be Harbinger and Pariah. They will know who you are. If Harbinger is alive, and has not been found by the Anti-Monitor at the start of Day 6, she will choose one player to resurrect.

Vanilla role - You are vanilla until a player tries to use an ability on you. The ability will appear to be blocked, and you will absorb it for a single use. If multiple abilities are used on you during a night, you will absorb the last one used, and the rest will affect you normally.

King Dedede - If the final vote tally is tied when the Day phase ends, you will decide which player, within the tie, is lynched.

Bill Rawls - Each night, you will give a Civ role an order on how to use their power. If they comply, you will know the result, if any.


The Master's Team

Bari Artzain - You appear town to alignment checks. *secrets*

Serena van der Woodsen - Each night, you will give a Civ role an order on how to use their power. If they comply, you can control their power the following night.


Independent

Akechi - Each night, you can appear as the role of your choice to information roles. *secrets*

[TonyStarkPrime]

I'm gonna do a GTH post, not a rainbow. I will only comment on some and expand after work tonight (Saturday is my long, difficult day at work, so it is very unlikely I will post during the day today). Bad is kind of a default position (see: Dragomir) for "no opinion" I should have an opinion by now.

Colin, bad, I have to reread him, but I don't remember much he has said. So bad as a default position.

Dom, civ with caveats: he can fool me, he knows it, I know it. So he makes me paranoid, but so far I see civ Dom. *IF* he is bad, I don't think he's bad with G or Jay. That "queen" thing kinda freaked me a bit, not gonna lie, but it was also sweet and totally a Dom thing to do

Drago: bad (last post asking about host posts, I don't know that anyone ever answered him. This is, like Colin, a default position, I don't know his game, and I know walking into a 30+ page thread is intimidating, but asking a question and leaving it hang seems kinda sketch to me.

Dyslexicon: bad, I have complex feels on this. She was a civ read then I shaded her down. She says and does things that feel/sound civ, but then she also is pushing low level minor shade at me and never giving me anything to work with. Early on, she, along with Radishes, asked the thread more than once, why people were town reading me. Aside from the fact that she was mirroring Radishes who I think is bad bad bad, it, along with all of her "Alas, I want to town read SVS but I am not sure why, someone else tell me what to think about this" hand wringing, it just strikes me as her wanting to find me bad. What she is doing is a play I have in my baddie book, too. Drop a crumb, see if anyone picks it up. Sowing the seeds of suspish. Disclaimer, I would feel this if she were doing it to someone else, too. Plus her Radishes suspish feels like distancing to me, tbh.

Epignosis: Civ. I am not seeing bad Epi, unless his game radically changed since I last played with him. Anyone have recent bad/civ Epi games I can look at? For me, "Bad Epi" is more obvious that "Good Epi", and I have not seen that scary person yet.

G Man: bad, I thought so for days, no change. I don't see a curse role (cursed objects is the closest thing) and doing self imposed posting gimmicks is a G Man thing, it is known. Not buying it. This is probably my first vote today unless I convince myself otherwise later in this post.

Jack: light civ; I thought he was bad bad until he backpedalled on nutella, I see no reason for him to have done that if he was bad. Before that he was close to the top of my bad list, though, so

Jay: civ, I feel like I do on Epi here, he seems civ to me, using my Jay barometer, but the barometer may need calibration.

Juliets: Jules is a civ, fight me if you don't agree.

MacDougall: bad, his play on the nutella lynch felt bad to me, and he has not returned since then. How he spins that situation will aim how I slot him. This is his last post (I am generally not posting posts in this post, but this one kinda counterpoints my thoughts on Dsy, so, breaking my own rules! I'm a rebel!)

It's from Day one, no reaction to the nutella lynch as of yet. Macdougall, come and tellme how you feel about how Day One ended.

I don't know why I feel resistance to read S-V-S as town. Cause she probably very well could be.

Good read

What? This is a terrible read. What does it even mean?

Master Radishes: He's bad, he's bad. You know it, he's bad.

[VOTE: Master Badishes] aubergine

Michelle: civ but could flip to bad, she gave me good feels early on, and I have seen nothing to change it, and therein lies the problem. I need moar Michelle. Gimme that content.

Nanook: civ, I though Nanook 1 was bad, not gonna lie. I reacted to him not unlike how I reacted to Chuck defending supabad LC in that other game. The way he came into his second life made me see commonality between his games so far, I liked him going right on the attack. I think if he were bad he would have pulled his punches a bit.

S~V~S: She is as civ as they come

sabie: bad, she seems a bit wishy washy so far, but I remember thinking she was bad in the past for that, and she wasn't. Putting bad as a default position.

sig; town, one of my civvier reads. I would actively fight a sigwagon.

Sloonei: civ, of the big three (Jay, Epi, Sloonei) I feel most confident in his civness. In their case I defeulted to civ not so much becasue I have seen their civ game as I haven't seen their bad. With Sloonei, I think I have seen both.

speedchuck: bad, this is more of a default position, I have not seen anything to think he is good, but then I am not a speedchuck reader. He is on my list for a reread tonight.

sprit: bad, I read him yesterday and it was meh. He is the opposite of nutella and epi for me, he has a bit of a mean feel for me when he is civ, maybe mean is the wrong word, maybe "biting"is better. Not gonna lie, I blew him up a few years ago and I try to avoid him since then. He says he is going home, maybe he will have more time. He has not said much topical so far.

tedxtr: civ, I like the cut of his jib so far. I like how he explains himself. He's higher on the list for me.

TonyStarkPrime: civ, I reread him yesterday, and expected to think him bad, but I like his posts, they are consice but get his point across, and I found nothing iffy or opportunistic feeling.

Tranq: civ, someone had said civ Tranq doesn't post much and that is true. Tranq with a chatroom banters more in thread. Tranq is like Dom, though, in that it is easy for him to charm me. Some of his opinions, when he started posting them, surprised me, like his thoughts on TH (see below). Tranq, TH and I all come from the same figurative home town, and I was surprised to see that read on TH.

Turnip Head: civ, this is my waffliest read, town TH can be a mad oracle, but like the words of most oracles, it requires interpretation. I *think* I am interpreting him in the correct way but I would like to see more words, plz, K, TH?

And I gotta go take a shower gonna post this without further ado.

This is all I got

[TonyStarkPrime]

Can someone explain the whole inception mechanic? We keep killing people until there’s 2 left or?

We’re here in the top layer.

There’s at least one more layer, I’d guess just one more based off player count.

Killing someone here kills them. “Killing” someone in the lower layer sends them to the top layer. Eventually the layers will merge back together.

Or that’s how it worked in the Inception game at least

How do you know this is the top layer? Becasue we're still in the main thread? I did not play that one. If this is the case, I am guessing they send us sig. They get the same posts as we do, they know who died and got the Oracle reveal, I hope? Anyone know if, based on the original game, this would be the case?

The person I suspect the most is sprityo. Look at his ISO. His Nanook vote was awful, and after that lynch he just dropped his suspicion. He was going to be my reveal, but at the last second I switched it to sig becasue I KNEW DIZZY WAS RIGHT ABOUT HIM!!! I am kinda surprised I was NKed, though. I expected that I would be an easy lynch. Not sad I was NKed, I wasn't looking forward to a lynch fight, and I got to use my power.

Even though he "feels" civ to me, I have some grave reservations about Turnip Head. The whole thing that led me down the awful "Macs Progressions Seems Civ!" garden path was a post of theirs. Again, not a bad ISO to read.

Colin doesn't say much, and he was the person sprit was freaking out that Nanook suspected. BUT if we think sprit could be sigs partner, Colin might just be a red herring. @ColinIsCool , who are your suspects in this thread? I don't (STILL) much remember any of your suspects. Maybe becasue we weren't in the thread together much. This smaller thread should give us better reads on at least this group.

Dom is so angry, I don't see him other than as a civ. Bad Dom is smoother, takes it less personally, his righteous indignation feels more stagey. But Dom fools me all the time.

Epignosis feels pretty town to me, and I am not sure why. I am going to reread his this phase.

Jack I have complex feels about, his feel for me is civ, but his words all feel bad to me, lol. He is also a reread.

Based on how he came back, I would doubt Nanook is bad. The way he came into the thread,swinging, and the way he held onto his suspects, (me, Colin) all felt civ to me. I have not agreed with almost anything he has said all game, but that doesn't mean he's bad.

ted, I have VERY complex feels on. For themost part, he "feels" civ to me, although he has a similar tone to Radishes about how awesome he is at Mafia which I tend to view as bad. But I hate almost everything he has said after the first few (rl) days,look at this:

After endless debates I have concluded that Dys' slip analysis isn't an actual thing. Also their G-Man read makes little to no sense, although I'd like them to elaborate on how G-man treating their slot was townie. Also, G-man didn't engage with you at all dizzy, he just said "night phase went well except for dys dying" and that's it. @Dyslexicon

People that are claiming sig has to be scum and aren't questioning why he couldn't have just TMI as a town role (which is the only thing dys' case can be even pointed to, but I don't think that's even a viable probability) is weird. Juliets' vote stuck out like a sore thumb. She went hard on him for no reason, just based off this nonsensical case, and her calling sig desperate so early feels really fake. Moreso, claiming she read his ISO but holding him accountable ONLY for this slip thing is wolfy.

Sig's basically saying that a protective role WOULDN'T have targeted mac and thus, he would have other tools at his disposal to survive the night. scummy ones.

Also also, the "what is ted doing on g-man" when I haven't posted in like 24 hours or something is really bad. Especially when I don't remember juliets even saying anything about G-man, so why even say that?

I can follow sig's train of thought actually.

I'll probably look at TH's push on me at some point but it isn't on my priority list.

I could get behind a ted lynch as well. He seems to be falling back on G Man alot, which bizaarely makes me want to back off G Man. I have VERY complex feels on G Man, and am happy he is not in here, so i don't have to think about them, lol.

So my, "Probably Bad" list includes sprit, ted and TH in that order. Maybe Colin, but just maybe.

My i dunno list (bonus about being a dead civ, no one cares if I have null reads) is Dom, Epi, Jack.

I feel OK about Nanook, but that is mainly for mechanical reasons and tone, I could be wrong.

I'm gonna read tonight after work, and will prolly post again in the AM. Good Luck civvies

*Rattle Chains at Ghostie MacDougall*

So not Epi or ted

[speedchuck]

What the heck is a GOAT kill anyway? Greatest Of All Time?

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think it’s Juliets. It could be Tranq but I have something else in mind for Tranq. If it’s Juliets then the lie Juliets has on Dizzy probably has to deal with Harbinger. Which on reread follows but isn’t immediately clear. But it would mean Juliets is right, Dizzy wasn’t town. That’s a huge non town in nature lie.

[juliets]

What the heck is a GOAT kill anyway? Greatest Of All Time?

Yes.

[tedxtr]

I'm not sure whether anything is going to sway you at this point, because you're clearly reaching for the read on me. Your case is saying I was wrong and that's why I'm scum, even though you agreed with me on 2 out of 3 reads. I am trying to wrap my head around whether it's scum level of "how is this fucker alive and why is he so hard to mislynch" or town level of "i'm so lost so that's why I'll sit on a Day 6 read and go nowhere with it, even if there's plenty of evidence there to clear him as not compatible with either team"

I don't understand how you can possibly see Tranq as town here. Yeah I've been wrong on G-Man, but look at all the evidence there is, look at Sloonei's interactions with tranq.

I also don't understand how you're more confident on him and not doubting me at all even though your perception of me is clearly skewed and you looking so care-free about it is disturbing on a scum level. You can't tell me that when you typed up your read on me you went "yeah, that's a scum, lock em up boys" when you say I was the one that re-kindled your passion for a G-Man lynch (so you also scum read him).

[juliets]

I'm not sure whether anything is going to sway you at this point, because you're clearly reaching for the read on me. Your case is saying I was wrong and that's why I'm scum, even though you agreed with me on 2 out of 3 reads. I am trying to wrap my head around whether it's scum level of "how is this fucker alive and why is he so hard to mislynch" or town level of "i'm so lost so that's why I'll sit on a Day 6 read and go nowhere with it, even if there's plenty of evidence there to clear him as not compatible with either team"

I don't understand how you can possibly see Tranq as town here. Yeah I've been wrong on G-Man, but look at all the evidence there is, look at Sloonei's interactions with tranq.

I also don't understand how you're more confident on him and not doubting me at all even though your perception of me is clearly skewed and you looking so care-free about it is disturbing on a scum level. You can't tell me that when you typed up your read on me you went "yeah, that's a scum, lock em up boys" when you say I was the one that re-kindled your passion for a G-Man lynch (so you also scum read him).

Who are you talking to? Me?

[tedxtr]

yes.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Also re the first SVS post, that’s gotta be on the line for role hinting

[TonyStarkPrime]

So that leaves us with Speed and Epi. Final answer.

[Tranq]

I think it’s Juliets. It could be Tranq but I have something else in mind for Tranq. If it’s Juliets then the lie Juliets has on Dizzy probably has to deal with Harbinger. Which on reread follows but isn’t immediately clear. But it would mean Juliets is right, Dizzy wasn’t town. That’s a huge non town in nature lie.

I'm reading Dizzy's lie (if we're talking about the same thing) as a way to protect juliets.

[juliets]

I think it’s Juliets. It could be Tranq but I have something else in mind for Tranq. If it’s Juliets then the lie Juliets has on Dizzy probably has to deal with Harbinger. Which on reread follows but isn’t immediately clear. But it would mean Juliets is right, Dizzy wasn’t town. That’s a huge non town in nature lie.

Tony, I conceded this morning on Dizzy. Tranq brought something up I hadn't thought of.

[juliets]

I think it’s Juliets. It could be Tranq but I have something else in mind for Tranq. If it’s Juliets then the lie Juliets has on Dizzy probably has to deal with Harbinger. Which on reread follows but isn’t immediately clear. But it would mean Juliets is right, Dizzy wasn’t town. That’s a huge non town in nature lie.

I'm reading Dizzy's lie (if we're talking about the same thing) as a way to protect juliets.

That was absolutely the gist of what I got from you.

[TonyStarkPrime]

This is going to get gritty.
Irrelevant.
Irrelevant. Speed and Epi.

[TonyStarkPrime]

The thought crossed my mind. Makes sense that you would bring it up.

[juliets]

[mention]tedxtr[/mention].

Juliets: Jules is a civ, fight me if you don't agree.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Alright Jules back it up a bit

[speedchuck]

tedxtr.

Juliets: Jules is a civ, fight me if you don't agree.

Alright Jules back it up a bit

What do you mean by this Tony?

And also why are we giving SVS this much credit? She doesn't have an inforole or anything?

[tedxtr]

tedxtr.

Juliets: Jules is a civ, fight me if you don't agree.

Is this supposed to mean anything to me? This is a Day 3 read or something.

TSP, how'd you jump from Juliets and possibly tranq to dead to rights on Speed and Epi?

I feel like I'm missing something obvious here but someone's going to have to spell it out for me

[TonyStarkPrime]

tedxtr.

Juliets: Jules is a civ, fight me if you don't agree.

Is this supposed to mean anything to me? This is a Day 3 read or something.

TSP, how'd you jump from Juliets and possibly tranq to dead to rights on Speed and Epi?

I feel like I'm missing something obvious here but someone's going to have to spell it out for me

I can spell it out. I have no information that assists in this at all.
SVS is the permanent ghost, so they know the identity of the Monitor. I pinged SVS so they’d tell us who the monitor is, but best guess it’s Juliets. Juliets don’t say anything about this. If it’s wrong revel in your mafia victory to the bank. Juliets then would be positive who the identity of the Harbinger is. I’d already assumed it was Dys. Considering that Juliets keeps thinking that Dizzy is not town because of a lie Dizzy may or may not have told, that follows. That’s been discussed this day.
Also consider that Tranq was tracking on this before I was. That might suggest some extra knowledge or just smart. Tranq might be bluffing one of two other roles but could be anything.

[juliets]

I'm not sure whether anything is going to sway you at this point, because you're clearly reaching for the read on me. Your case is saying I was wrong and that's why I'm scum, even though you agreed with me on 2 out of 3 reads. I am trying to wrap my head around whether it's scum level of "how is this fucker alive and why is he so hard to mislynch" or town level of "i'm so lost so that's why I'll sit on a Day 6 read and go nowhere with it, even if there's plenty of evidence there to clear him as not compatible with either team"

I don't understand how you can possibly see Tranq as town here. Yeah I've been wrong on G-Man, but look at all the evidence there is, look at Sloonei's interactions with tranq.

I also don't understand how you're more confident on him and not doubting me at all even though your perception of me is clearly skewed and you looking so care-free about it is disturbing on a scum level. You can't tell me that when you typed up your read on me you went "yeah, that's a scum, lock em up boys" when you say I was the one that re-kindled your passion for a G-Man lynch (so you also scum read him).

Who are you talking to? Me?

ted, my main concern is that you or Epi have to be bad because of Inception Day. Maybe it's not you, maybe it's Epi. In my head I'm saying neither of the things you are attributing to me.

You don't understand why I see Tranq as town because 1) you don't know Tranq and I have played with him for 10 years and 2) you are not getting what he is laying down.

I never said I didn't have doubt. I am trying to solve today. I've had two "aha" moments already today. You need to think about why I'm even here listening to you if I've written you off.

I have no clue what you mean about me looking so carefree about you.

You need to think hard about that SVS post.

[tedxtr]

Ok, that quote of the post makes sense now.

That just makes me more certain of Tranq tbh.

juliets if you're the monitor you have to listen to me because your town core's flawed. please re-evaluate on me.

tranq is scum.

[tedxtr]

I've briefly skimmed Sloonei's tranq posts and I've concluded he actually has decent odds at a partner with him. Whenever I read a Sloonei post that has tranq in it, I just can't help but think that it's a wolf trying to get his lurker wolf into the game. At times, he has taken a stance on him (which was defending him against Nanook's accusation) and what I later found out to be spicy was that, even though Sloonei mentioned not having any game experience with Tranq, he still spent most of his time trying to get him to play the game as if he had experience with Tranq and wanted to sort him - he even took a further step of mentioning him and asking him to come play - and when you take that into account, the "this is a wolf helping a wolf post" is just so out there. What would be the motivation to get Tranq, a lurker, in a 26 player list or how many it was, to post in order to sort him - even though you have no past meta with him - instead of tailing down your own reads?

Just think about it, when has a town ever expressed interest in wanting to hear from a lurker if they had no past experience with them? You only do if there's an underlying reason. Sure, you may do this in later stages of the game, but so early? There's a lot more other things to focus on.

[juliets]

Ok so I'm ready to consider Epi and speedchuck as possibilities.

[tedxtr]

OHHHHHHHH THIS IS SPICY.

[mention]Long Con[/mention] if someone is janitored and they were harbringer, would the harbringer identity be revealed to the scum?

[Tranq]

I'm voting speedchuck for now.

[mention]speedchuck[/mention] can you give us your thoughts on Epignosis?
[mention]Epignosis[/mention] can you give us your thoughts on speedchuck?
[mention]tedxtr[/mention] can you please name one other suspect other than me? Don't "it could be literally anyone" me. This is Day 9 in a Champions game, potentionally the last day if we lynch wrong. Take a stance.

[tedxtr]

I think speed has better odds at flipping scum than Epi to be honest.

[speedchuck]

I feel like I can't even engage with the thread right now.

My questions are met with 'Tranq is town because reasons' even though there's no town role or item set that clears him from what he's said and when I ask why people townread Tony I get nothing from anyone.

I'll answer your questions later Tranq. I'll be giving everyone a read before the end of this phase.

[TonyStarkPrime]

OHHHHHHHH THIS IS SPICY.

@Long Con if someone is janitored and they were harbringer, would the harbringer identity be revealed to the scum?

OH

[TonyStarkPrime]

I feel like I can't even engage with the thread right now.

My questions are met with 'Tranq is town because reasons' even though there's no town role or item set that clears him from what he's said and when I ask why people townread Tony I get nothing from anyone.

I'll answer your questions later Tranq. I'll be giving everyone a read before the end of this phase.

I’m Town because of my wonderful personality

[juliets]

Jay was pretty adamant about Epi being bad so I'm going to revisit his posts. One thing I know made me uncomfortable is how hard Epi has fought against the notion that either he or ted is bad because of Inception Day. It seems so logical to me that the baddies would have been spread between levels.

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] is there anything you see about Epi right at the moment that causes you concern?

[speedchuck]

You guys are scumreading me without any reason and POE townreading everyone without reason (except for Juliets, I got that one) and it's going to lose town the game.

At least, lose the game for me, Juliets and whoever the one other townsperson is.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Jay was pretty adamant about Epi being bad so I'm going to revisit his posts. One thing I know made me uncomfortable is how hard Epi has fought against the notion that either he or ted is bad because of Inception Day. It seems so logical to me that the baddies would have been spread between levels.

@TonyStarkPrime is there anything you see about Epi right at the moment that causes you concern?

No. He’s played a clean game. I’ll reread his interactions with Sloonei.

[tedxtr]

You guys are scumreading me without any reason and POE townreading everyone without reason (except for Juliets, I got that one) and it's going to lose town the game.

At least, lose the game for me, Juliets and whoever the one other townsperson is.

Fwiw I'm kind of juggling between who last one could be and can be suaded but I think I'm locking it on tranq for the rest of the phase and feel like he's the single person who makes the most sense as scum to me right now.