Take Me Out at the Ballgame! [DAY 3]

[Michelle]

@nutella come tell me about your recent reads please

Jack's flip threw me off but I still think you are scum out of the remaining candidates, along with probably LC?

You think bad. Jack's flip is a bad surprise for me.and idk what to think about his wagon, I was voting LC and I am villager, Nanook was voting you and so both scum are inside Jack's wagon.

So. Who voted Mac in day 1? With 3 mins before Eod, M7 and Nanook, and piled on him after were LC and Jay.
Off wagon were you on Epi and Epi on me. I was on you as well.
Where is scum, in Mac's wagon or off wagon?
How do you see this?

[Epignosis]

Any motherfucking cop who gets a real check is going to make sure his motherfucking allies know what that motherfucking check is before the Day phase ends.

Does anybody disagree with that?

Nanook didn't do that.

JJJ didn't abuse him or push him for failing to provide the civilians with the one piece of fucking information crucial to making a smarter decision.

Why not?

We're at Night 2, and none of us know what Nanook's cop check was. That is horseshit.

Conveniently, his Night 0 check was MP7. The dead guy. Terrific. What a coinkydink.

Take a look at the Matrix on the front page.

JJJ has put is in UNIVERSE 1 because he does not dispute the existence of Nanook's claim (which he should, because fuck that Day 2 "cop" play).

I believe we are actually in UNIVERSE 3.

In this scenario, the mafia has two role checks. If mafia role-checked Jack, they would know they could safely fake UNIVERSE 1.

Nanook claims cop with a Night peek and plays games with everyone else all fucking Day 2.

JJJ plays games with him and never pushes him for an actual claim, meanwhile facepalming at everyone who doesn't understand matrices (which, at the time, I thought was kind of funny, but I digress).

If I am correct, the actual mafia knows there's no goddamned "1-shot cop w/n0 peek" and Nanook faked it. No one could dispute the claim, because "1-shot tracker" is compatible with "1-shot cop w/n0 peek."

Nanook and JJJ are mafia.

[Michelle]

I have to sleep it's 2 am. more than 5-10 mins i can't stay awake, sorry about that.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Doesn't count. Votes were for SVS.

[Michelle]

Doesn't count. Votes were for SVS.

[Michelle]

Epi i read your post. I will say something in the morning.

[nutella]

Any motherfucking cop who gets a real check is going to make sure his motherfucking allies know what that motherfucking check is before the Day phase ends.

Does anybody disagree with that?

Nanook didn't do that.

JJJ didn't abuse him or push him for failing to provide the civilians with the one piece of fucking information crucial to making a smarter decision.

Why not?

We're at Night 2, and none of us know what Nanook's cop check was. That is horseshit.

Conveniently, his Night 0 check was MP7. The dead guy. Terrific. What a coinkydink.

Take a look at the Matrix on the front page.

JJJ has put is in UNIVERSE 1 because he does not dispute the existence of Nanook's claim (which he should, because fuck that Day 2 "cop" play).

I believe we are actually in UNIVERSE 3.

In this scenario, the mafia has two role checks. If mafia role-checked Jack, they would know they could safely fake UNIVERSE 1.

Nanook claims cop with a Night peek and plays games with everyone else all fucking Day 2.

JJJ plays games with him and never pushes him for an actual claim, meanwhile facepalming at everyone who doesn't understand matrices (which, at the time, I thought was kind of funny, but I digress).

If I am correct, the actual mafia knows there's no goddamned "1-shot cop w/n0 peek" and Nanook faked it. No one could dispute the claim, because "1-shot tracker" is compatible with "1-shot cop w/n0 peek."

Nanook and JJJ are mafia.

Oh shit this is spicy.

I have to think about this. I had gotten the impression that Nanook didn't actually have a peek, but still figured there was some town-4d-chess motivation for the lie to bait something out. I hadn't considered this angle.

[nutella]

Doesn't count. Votes were for SVS.

Sorry man

[Epignosis]

In before "Yes, but the doctor should have claimed to prove we're in Universe 3."

That's called hunting power roles, and JJJ was doing exactly that without pushing for Nanook to give a hard claim one way or the other. Notice how many times JJJ tried to shame someone for not coming through with a counter-claim.

That's so he could kill your ass.

[Epignosis]

I hope our civilian power roles are paying close attention to today’s developments. If Nanook goes unchallenged then we’re going to trust his claim. Someone out there should know if he is lying. If you don’t understand the matrix, let me know. I wrote it. I want to avoid silly shenanigans.

To be clear: if anyone out there is a doctor or a cop, Nanook is lying. Don’t hide if that’s you.

"Step right out into the firing squad folks! Pay no attention to the fact that I don't care that Nanook never told us what his cop read was for Day 2!"

[Long Con]

Doesn't Nanook have until the end of Night 2 to share the real check?

[Epignosis]

Doesn't Nanook have until the end of Night 2 to share the real check?

Doesn't matter. It's irresponsible cop play. A civilian JJJ wouldn't tolerate that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't feel I can rely on the MP kill as a guide now. It still could be Michelle/nutella, but I haven't felt that. I'll review again. If it isn't, then either LC or Epignosis was a fucking coward.

That's a shitty thing to say.

If something has value, it has value regardless. You walking this back smells.

I don't care if it smells. I have to adapt with the game. When I get around to it I'll see how I feel about all you goons.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In before "Yes, but the doctor should have claimed to prove we're in Universe 3."

That's called hunting power roles, and JJJ was doing exactly that without pushing for Nanook to give a hard claim one way or the other. Notice how many times JJJ tried to shame someone for not coming through with a counter-claim.

That's so he could kill your ass.

You have never quite understood these things. No.

I entered Day 2 with Nanook as a top suspect. At various points folks have evidenced in this thread that they're not entirely clear on how the matrix works. I had to reiterate for my own comfort, repeatedly, that if Nanook is lying then there should be a mechanical means of knowing that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Doesn't Nanook have until the end of Night 2 to share the real check?

Doesn't matter. It's irresponsible cop play. A civilian JJJ wouldn't tolerate that.

Setup 1 has a roleblocker.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If Nanook has another civilian peek, we kept it safe by lynching from within a pool of suspects he had blessed.

If Nanook does not, then he didn't use the shot or he got blocked. There's no reason to freak out, and it's not "irresponsible".

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In before "Yes, but the doctor should have claimed to prove we're in Universe 3."

That's called hunting power roles, and JJJ was doing exactly that without pushing for Nanook to give a hard claim one way or the other. Notice how many times JJJ tried to shame someone for not coming through with a counter-claim.

That's so he could kill your ass.

Also this doesn't make mechanical sense. If I am trying to woo out counters so that I may kill them, then that means Nanook is lying. I think it's clear that Nanook's claiming on Day 2 reached beyond the realm of "cop cover", so we're left with a dichotomy: Nanook is the civilian cop, or Nanook is a mafioso. If he's the latter in the world you've theorized, then his teammate is me.

In this world then I must be trying to draw out the other power(s) I know to exist.

None of them came. They don't exist. Jack was a tracker and falls in line with cop in setup 1 anyway.

[Epignosis]

In before "Yes, but the doctor should have claimed to prove we're in Universe 3."

That's called hunting power roles, and JJJ was doing exactly that without pushing for Nanook to give a hard claim one way or the other. Notice how many times JJJ tried to shame someone for not coming through with a counter-claim.

That's so he could kill your ass.

Also this doesn't make mechanical sense. If I am trying to woo out counters so that I may kill them, then that means Nanook is lying. I think it's clear that Nanook's claiming on Day 2 reached beyond the realm of "cop cover", so we're left with a dichotomy: Nanook is the civilian cop, or Nanook is a mafioso. If he's the latter in the world you've theorized, then his teammate is me.

In this world then I must be trying to draw out the other power(s) I know to exist.

None of them came. They don't exist. Jack was a tracker and falls in line with cop in setup 1 anyway.

No one came. That doesn't mean one doesn't exist. You know that.

Luckily this is very easy to sort out Day 3.

[Epignosis]

JJJ, why didn't you urge Nanook to produce a solid check?

Nanook, why didn't you produce a solid check?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ, why didn't you urge Nanook to produce a solid check?

The only thing that matters is assuring we don't lynch a civilian check. We took care of that. Nanook can reveal any other information if he has it tonight.

Ok, I’ve gotta take off unfortunately. I really pretty strongly think nutella is a better kill today than Michelle but do what you want I guess

Assuming LC is town I’d guess teams that make most sense are like Nutella/jack, jack/Michelle, Epi/jay, something like that.

Would you lynch Jack then? We all seem to agree on that one.

I think Nutella is strictly better tbh

I’d probably do jack over Michelle tho

Idk it’s on you guys now I’ve gotta go for realsies.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

No one came. That doesn't mean one doesn't exist. You know that.

Read the thread and tell me they exist. Unless it's you and you ignored my alarms, then there's nobody left for it to be.

[Epignosis]

JJJ, why didn't you urge Nanook to produce a solid check?

The only thing that matters is assuring we don't lynch a civilian check. We took care of that. Nanook can reveal any other information if he has it tonight.

Ok, I’ve gotta take off unfortunately. I really pretty strongly think nutella is a better kill today than Michelle but do what you want I guess

Assuming LC is town I’d guess teams that make most sense are like Nutella/jack, jack/Michelle, Epi/jay, something like that.

Would you lynch Jack then? We all seem to agree on that one.

I think Nutella is strictly better tbh

I’d probably do jack over Michelle tho

Idk it’s on you guys now I’ve gotta go for realsies.

That's hogwash. Nanook could have avoided wasting our time and just said an hour before the deadline (or so), "It isn't XYZ. Green check."

I don't buy this convoluted bullshit. I even asked you about it, and you gave me some wild answer.

The correct answer is always this: If you claim cop, give your results the same Day.

There is no other strategy that makes any sense. And you know this.

I'm calling Penn & Teller because this is

[Epignosis]

No one came. That doesn't mean one doesn't exist. You know that.

Read the thread and tell me they exist. Unless it's you and you ignored my alarms, then there's nobody left for it to be.

Still fishing, eh old man?

[Epignosis]

I do need to revise my accusation though:

If I am correct, JJJ is NOT trying to hunt for the doctor to kill him or her. JJJ is trying to avoid that since roles are revealed after kills. Minor thing, but I am determined to be thorough and fair and I will acknowledge any mechanical point against my view.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That's hogwash. Nanook could have avoided wasting our time and just said an hour before the deadline (or so), "It isn't XYZ. Green check."

I don't buy this convoluted bullshit. I even asked you about it, and you gave me some wild answer.

The correct answer is always this: If you claim cop, give your results the same Day.

There is no other strategy that makes any sense. And you know this.

I'm calling Penn & Teller because this is

It isn't convoluted bullshit. It's the answer to your question.

If you still believe in the MP kill, then remember the correct conclusion you already drew. There's no way in hell I kill the founder of the site, who passed the baton to me, on Night 1 of his first game in about a year. Just no dude. The end. My read is over.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

No one came. That doesn't mean one doesn't exist. You know that.

Read the thread and tell me they exist. Unless it's you and you ignored my alarms, then there's nobody left for it to be.

Still fishing, eh old man?

I don't need to fish. If you're a doctor and we're only getting a whiff of that right now, then you royally fucked up.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If you're not a doctor, then Nanook is a cop and this conversation is asinine.

[Epignosis]

If you're not a doctor, then Nanook is a cop and this conversation is asinine.

Kill me and find out.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Gonna go on record right now and say that if for any reason I end up lynched in this game, it will be the dumbest lynch I have ever suffered. Ever.

[Epignosis]

Gonna go on record right now and say that if for any reason I end up lynched in this game, it will be the dumbest lynch I have ever suffered. Ever.

And I'm going to go on record right now and say that if I am right, this will be the greatest upset in history since David.

[Epignosis]

Gonna go on record right now and say that if for any reason I end up lynched in this game, it will be the dumbest lynch I have ever suffered. Ever.

And anyway, I'd prefer to lynch the cop who didn't provide any useful information Day 2 whatsofuckingever.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I didn't even see your "Universe 3" post until just now. Joy.

[Epignosis]

I didn't even see your "Universe 3" post until just now. Joy.

You wrote Universe 3 though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You seriously better not be a doctor with this kind of glorious Day 2 fuck up and then follow it up by telling me I'm the mafioso for knowing how the setup works.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I told you to TK Nutella.

I’ve got GM stuff to do and dinner to take care of, will explain what I’m doing after.

[Epignosis]

You seriously better not be a doctor with this kind of glorious Day 2 fuck up and then follow it up by telling me I'm the mafioso for knowing how the setup works.

I am accusing you of being a mafioso for knowing precisely how the setup works.

I mean, the rest of us are morons, right?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My fancy play allergies are exploding.

I'm going to calm myself. It's the night phase. Get your theoretical rocks off now gang, just be ready to straighten your heads when it counts please. The game is still very winnable if we avoid very stupid shit.

[Epignosis]

Agreed. And lynch Nanook.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You seriously better not be a doctor with this kind of glorious Day 2 fuck up and then follow it up by telling me I'm the mafioso for knowing how the setup works.

I am accusing you of being a mafioso for knowing precisely how the setup works.

I mean, the rest of us are morons, right?

If there's no doctor, Nanook's a cop. The end. Good night.

If there is a doctor, he's not. If that's our reality, Nanook's continued heartbeat right now is offensive to common sense. This should not be a Night 2 conversation.

[Epignosis]

You seriously better not be a doctor with this kind of glorious Day 2 fuck up and then follow it up by telling me I'm the mafioso for knowing how the setup works.

I am accusing you of being a mafioso for knowing precisely how the setup works.

I mean, the rest of us are morons, right?

If there's no doctor, Nanook's a cop. The end. Good night.

If.

If there is a doctor, he's not. If that's our reality, Nanook's continued heartbeat right now is offensive to common sense. This should not be a Night 2 conversation.

If.

[Epignosis]

JJJ, why don't you want to talk about the existence of role cops in not one, not two, not three, but four of the universes you said you wrote?

[Epignosis]

Mafia role cops, that is.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

So we’re in world C

I’m the 2 shot doc, MP got strongmanned N1. I thought fake claiming a red and seeing how things broke would open up the game, especially as I knew two people would know the check wasn’t real. My plan was to then claim tracker at night and try to get my second save off.

Which is partly why I wanted nutella TKed, the way she jumped on the check smelled like someone setting up “TK the ‘red’ check then murder the fake cop.”

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ, why don't you want to talk about the existence of role cops in not one, not two, not three, but four of the universes you said you wrote?

They should not be relevant. The game is quite simple. If the claim is a lie we have a clear built-in mechanism to discern that. If the civilians ignore or overlook that mechanism, that's because they failed. The role cop ability does not change that. Numerous setups have a tracker. If the mafia know it's not #1 and want to fake a claim from #1, then the civilian power role not fitting that setup knows the claim is junk. The onus is then on him or her to do something about it.

The primary function of the role cop in this matrix is to identify a power role and then kill it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So we’re in world C

I’m the 2 shot doc, MP got strongmanned N1. I thought fake claiming a red and seeing how things broke would open up the game, especially as I knew two people would know the check wasn’t real. My plan was to then claim tracker at night and try to get my second save off.

Which is partly why I wanted nutella TKed, the way she jumped on the check smelled like someone setting up “TK the ‘red’ check then murder the fake cop.”

I'm gonna need a minute to absorb that one.

[Epignosis]

Get the fuck out.

[nutella]

So we’re in world C

I’m the 2 shot doc, MP got strongmanned N1. I thought fake claiming a red and seeing how things broke would open up the game, especially as I knew two people would know the check wasn’t real. My plan was to then claim tracker at night and try to get my second save off.

Which is partly why I wanted nutella TKed, the way she jumped on the check smelled like someone setting up “TK the ‘red’ check then murder the fake cop.”

..........

brain explodey emoji

Well I guess that's an explanation. Gonna take a bit to reorder my thoughts here.

I had no reason not to believe your claim though, why do you think my reaction "smelled" bad?

[Epignosis]

I won this game for the civilians.

You're all welcome. Move on with your lives.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I won this game for the civilians.

You're all welcome. Move on with your lives.

If you don't turn around you lost it. I don't entirely blame you though, because this is the epitome of Fancy Play Syndrome.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I mean there is literally no reason for me to do this as scum, I just stick to my cop claim and claim my green is on my partner at EOD