Assassin's Creed Mafia (OVER!)

[speedchuck]

Turnip Head having 0 votes in this vote spread is curious. If he were town one would think scum would find his button a satisfying resting place.

What's the difference between this and TSP?

[Master Radishes]

TonyStarkPrime

Starting with TSP, because his wagon of two is the one that carries the most cumulative suspicion in my books.

To jump to my conclusions: I like TSP here. It's just a few little things, admittedly, but:

-His style seems to be to make short, unexplained posts/reads, but when he's questioned (seemingly exclusive by Sloonei) he backs them up well. Whether you agree with him or not, his thought process is made clear. There's no scrambling for justification post-hoc, nor is there an obvious desire to make himself understood to avoid scrutiny in the first place.

Spoiler: show

Sloonei is town. There was absolutely nothing wrong with him talking mechanically. It's not pro anything and doesn't deter the game at all. An argument could be made that it is beneficial towards the game and lets you understand what could be going on. That newfound understanding can better your reads.

Why was Sloonei being voted for mechanical talk? Ts why are you gungho about it? I can't help but agree with Sloonei that suspecting someone over mechanical is suspicious in of itself. It's lazy and never actually feels like a genuine read. Furthermore, scum use this too much to get by with their fake suspicions. Thus why it feels lazy and not genuine.

I don’t like this post from Drago. Ironically it’s seems like something I’d post but that’s irrelevant.

Tell me more

The defense hinges on what amounts to a non-existent part of the case. It seems like Drago is more focused on earning town cred

I could use the same logic against you. You have only played a fraction of the amount of mafia games that exist so you can't truly know that mechanical talk is widely considered a scumtell. It might have been from the games you've played but not the many others have.

So basically, trying to say that mechanical talk is a scumtell is bullshit. It's not a universal opinion. I want you to explain to me what really makes mechanical talk a bad thing.

There exists somewhere a big imaginary book of mafia. When players are good enough, they get a chance to write a chapter of the book. In some footnotes, you will find clear references to mechanical discussion being a scumtell. I do not know what to tell you beyond this. I am not the one who decides what are and aren't considered scumtells, though I do have a few scumtells of my own that I have not seen other players share.

Generally, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will struggle to generate content. This is the closest thing you can get to objective in mafia- sort by postcount will almost always win more games than any individual player's reads, it has been tested. As a result of this, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will latch onto low-hanging talking points. In mystery games especially, mechanical discussion is inevitable from any alignment, but scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) are happy to engage in this discourse, as it means they don't have to provide fake content.

Happy?

I like this post.

Why do you like it?

I’m on the side that continuing on this point is a good look for the one being called Mikey for one. Further, I think the reasoning is sound.

Funnygurl earlier said that Ted was townish for voting Leetic because the vote was spicy. I like the reasoning. But I don’t like that for 2 reasons:
1) Leetic was one of only four people who had votes already
2) thats it

I do not understand what you like and dislike here.

I like the argument that spicy voting = town. But I think it’s a little suspicious that 1) voting for Leetic could be considered spicy and 2) she didn’t say anything about me, the other Leetic voter. Unless I missed something.

-He's not afraid to be sassy. Considering he only pulls this side of him out now and then, it suggests to me he's comfortable, not worried about his agenda.

Spoiler: show

Funnygurl earlier said that Ted was townish for voting Leetic because the vote was spicy. I like the reasoning. But I don’t like that for 2 reasons:
1) Leetic was one of only four people who had votes already
2) thats it

Hot take: mafia have not made any of the last ~50 posts (last ~16 hours real time).

It was this guy, roughly. Sloonei takes his scum read’s game building theory?

Big Fart.

Just sayin

I was unaware that that comment had been made.
Qualifying Master Radishes as my “scum read” singular is a completely inadequate way to frame my position on him or anything else in this game. I had a vote on him. That is all.
And third, why does this even matter?

1) wasnt aware who made the original comment when I asked. Thought it was \interesting\ that you had taken a position that had been discussed previously when you hadn’t been involved in the original conversation. Could be harmless mind meld, could be scum looking to build an agenda.
2) cool
3) see 1

-He's not afraid to go against the grain on little things. Scum don't mind being contrarian, of course, but usually in macro-level ways - a post like below seems unnecessary for a scum to make.

Spoiler: show

All Role PMs have been sent! It is now D1, which will end at a majority vote or by April 2, 7pm EDT.

For somebody opposed to mechanics discussions, you're quick to point out mechanics to people like me.

This is the worst post I've read today.

I liked it

(Note that others also expressed dislike of the post in question, which TSP would later brush off.)

-He had his vote on leetic, but in the post below admitted leetic was 'putting in real work'. I think what's key here is he didn't go on to try to gain town-cred off leetic's eventual lynch or anything - he commented on something he saw happening, and moved on. He wasn't around EoD (I believe) and his vote remained where it was (on leetic). He wasn't concerned about setting himself up for next round in any of his actions surrounding leetic's lynch.

Spoiler: show

Leetic is putting in real work here.

-He knows he's a possible lynch but isn't worried, and stays focused on his own hunt.

Spoiler: show

while i'm rambling i think tsp's a hit. anyway i'll go back into the thread. grumble grumble

Finger to the pulse I’m probably the second or third most likely person to be lynched today, so the vote isn’t purposeless as scum. But I think I’m comfortable enough with this much tunneling to move my vote to Speed

All in all, TSP's play doesn't seem scummy to me. I'm sure I could cherry-pick a couple posts and say 'this could be a wolf...' but you can do that with anyone. He seems to me like a low-posting townie who is is neither forcing his reads nor worried about how he comes across.

[Master Radishes]

Here's a fun one: A readlist based only on people's current votes:

Good votes - MacDougall, Sloonei, Funnygurl, ts account, Epignosis
Not Good Votes - Turnip Head, Master Radishes, Long Con, TSP, Ted

That's...completely subjective and therefore useless.

The spread is 2/2/2/2/1/1/1. How did you decide whose vote was good and whose was bad?

[speedchuck]

Here's a fun one: A readlist based only on people's current votes:

Good votes - MacDougall, Sloonei, Funnygurl, ts account, Epignosis
Not Good Votes - Turnip Head, Master Radishes, Long Con, TSP, Ted

That's...completely subjective and therefore useless.

The spread is 2/2/2/2/1/1/1. How did you decide whose vote was good and whose was bad?

The target of the vote.

And yes it's subjective, it's a readlist.

I'm not sure how anyone could sincerely vote for funnygurl after her play the latter half of today. And voting for tedxstr is just wrong.

[Master Radishes]

Here's a fun one: A readlist based only on people's current votes:

Good votes - MacDougall, Sloonei, Funnygurl, ts account, Epignosis
Not Good Votes - Turnip Head, Master Radishes, Long Con, TSP, Ted

That's...completely subjective and therefore useless.

The spread is 2/2/2/2/1/1/1. How did you decide whose vote was good and whose was bad?

The target of the vote.

And yes it's subjective, it's a readlist.

I'm not sure how anyone could sincerely vote for funnygurl after her play the latter half of today. And voting for tedxstr is just wrong.

-Epi is voting Ted, but you have him as a good vote.

-You're not taking into account the context of the vote. E.g. my vote on FG was back when she hadn't posted in ages and the thread had slowed to a crawl. TS' vote on me was for a completely different reason, and completely separate of, the wagon of Mac/Sloonei/Ted that formed on me later. Etc.


Analyse votes if you want to, but this just clogs the thread with lazy busywork that doesn't lead anywhere.

[Master Radishes]

Coincidentally, speedchuck is my next ISO.

[Long Con]

Here's a fun one: A readlist based only on people's current votes:

Good votes - MacDougall, Sloonei, Funnygurl, ts account, Epignosis
Not Good Votes - Turnip Head, Master Radishes, Long Con, TSP, Ted

Ok, is this better? [VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

[Funnygurl555]

you ever gonna change your vote radishes?

why am i met with so much resistance when it comes to voting tsp?

[speedchuck]

you ever gonna change your vote radishes?

why am i met with so much resistance when it comes to voting tsp?

I mean. He explained the townread on TSP.

[Funnygurl555]

Actually TSP doesn't have a single read on me in his ISO that is accompanied by reasons.

Does he have reasons for anyone else?

he had some reasons for suspecting me but it didn't warrant his voting me yesterday

i think he's scummy do you think he's scummy?

you're really hung up on this vote

I mean additionally of all the people I've voted for this game I've given the most sustained reasoning for why I suspected for you and then voted for you. You just reread and you saw I was expressing suspicion of you early day one and I kept it. If you expect me to have detailed reasoning each time I want to vote someone early in the day, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

this ain't about early day stuff it's about your reads changing without explanation while they coincidentally mesh with the game state

also what is that speedchuck read

what is that

[Funnygurl555]

you ever gonna change your vote radishes?

why am i met with so much resistance when it comes to voting tsp?

I mean. He explained the townread on TSP.

oh i don't just mean radishes

[Master Radishes]

you ever gonna change your vote radishes?

Does it bother you?

[Funnygurl555]

you ever gonna change your vote radishes?

Does it bother you?

yeah 'cause even you don't like it and by not placing a real vote you're not contributing to the vc

it's like you're withholding your voice when it matters

[Master Radishes]

you ever gonna change your vote radishes?

Does it bother you?

yeah 'cause even you don't like it and by not placing a real vote you're not contributing to the vc

it's like you're withholding your voice when it matters

And you are creating a narrative that doesn't exist.

Try this one instead: in the middle of a dead thread where you hadn't posted in a long while, I voted you as I felt someone amongst the non-talkers was a scum. You did not make your appearance until much later. In the time since, I've been online twice: once where I focused on the wagon that I woke up to find on me, and now where I am ISOing a few of the other wagon options before re-evaluating my reads.

Why aren't you harassing TS or Epi for their single-wagon votes?

[Master Radishes]

And for the record, I never said I didn't like my vote on you.

[speedchuck]

you ever gonna change your vote radishes?

Does it bother you?

yeah 'cause even you don't like it and by not placing a real vote you're not contributing to the vc

it's like you're withholding your voice when it matters

And you are creating a narrative that doesn't exist.

Try this one instead: in the middle of a dead thread where you hadn't posted in a long while, I voted you as I felt someone amongst the non-talkers was a scum. You did not make your appearance until much later. In the time since, I've been online twice: once where I focused on the wagon that I woke up to find on me, and now where I am ISOing a few of the other wagon options before re-evaluating my reads.

Why aren't you harassing TS or Epi for their single-wagon votes?

Or Turnip Head

[Master Radishes]

My ISO of Speedy has been interrupted. It is time for my daily quarantine promenade.

[Master Radishes]

you ever gonna change your vote radishes?

Does it bother you?

yeah 'cause even you don't like it and by not placing a real vote you're not contributing to the vc

it's like you're withholding your voice when it matters

And you are creating a narrative that doesn't exist.

Try this one instead: in the middle of a dead thread where you hadn't posted in a long while, I voted you as I felt someone amongst the non-talkers was a scum. You did not make your appearance until much later. In the time since, I've been online twice: once where I focused on the wagon that I woke up to find on me, and now where I am ISOing a few of the other wagon options before re-evaluating my reads.

Why aren't you harassing TS or Epi for their single-wagon votes?

Or Turnip Head

Yes, or TH.

[Funnygurl555]

you said you were going to change it

so in the midst of your isos, any good leads?

[Master Radishes]

you said you were going to change it

so in the midst of your isos, any good leads?

Did I? You might be right, but I don't really remember saying that.

Not TSP. Haven't done Speedy or TH yet. So no.

[Epignosis]

Here's a fun one: A readlist based only on people's current votes:

Good votes - MacDougall, Sloonei, Funnygurl, ts account, Epignosis
Not Good Votes - Turnip Head, Master Radishes, Long Con, TSP, Ted

What makes my vote a good one?

[Epignosis]

Here's a fun one: A readlist based only on people's current votes:

Good votes - MacDougall, Sloonei, Funnygurl, ts account, Epignosis
Not Good Votes - Turnip Head, Master Radishes, Long Con, TSP, Ted

That's...completely subjective and therefore useless.

The spread is 2/2/2/2/1/1/1. How did you decide whose vote was good and whose was bad?

The target of the vote.

And yes it's subjective, it's a readlist.

I'm not sure how anyone could sincerely vote for funnygurl after her play the latter half of today. And voting for tedxstr is just wrong.

I'm voting ted. You said my vote was a good vote. What?

[Epignosis]

I should finish reading everything before I post.

[TonyStarkPrime]

If MR is scum they're scum with TH I think. FG said in one of her longer posts that that was unlikely. Conclusion: not scum?

Qualify this. What would MR be scum with TH?

MR argued that current lynch options were weak — something as scum you can do to get town cred (notable since MR had votes earlier) or if you have scum partner among the 5ish people with votes. Notably MR left TH off the lowest posters list though TH is fifth, and MR/LC doesn’t make sense with day 1.

[Funnygurl555]

well... godspeed town

[TonyStarkPrime]

Here's a fun one: A readlist based only on people's current votes:

Good votes - MacDougall, Sloonei, Funnygurl, ts account, Epignosis
Not Good Votes - Turnip Head, Master Radishes, Long Con, TSP, Ted

Speed is a clever player, but I don’t think I can see him doing something like this as scum. It has a very “I’m town and here’s what’s up” vibe and it’s something that scum has to pause on the submit button and look at. Thoughts?

[speedchuck]

I should finish reading everything before I post.

I got some names mixed up from multitasking while sleep-deprived. Your vote is bad.

[Epignosis]

Here thar be shite:

[VOTE: leetic ] aubergine

leetic is my strongest town read at the moment.

Drag me into the darkside... Why?

this

Other than talking about a few other people, there isn't much interaction between that and then this:

I was about to move my vote to leetic but I saw he already has 4 votes.

Sloonei, I know what your answer was to Dragomir, but why did you feel it was necessary to say this if you didn't move it?

leetic "justifying suspicion rather than developing reads"

Spoiler: show

Y'know, this post is a bit weird. Mikey is calling out Sloonei for setup speculation, yet when you look at the first paragraph, that's exactly what he's doing here

Care to explain?

I would like to know from you. Are you worried about me pocketing you?

Mikey's behavior is weird, last game when he was town he wasn't going after the people doing setup speculation despite the fact that there was a lot going on. And what's with this business about pocketing, like of course I'm not going to discount the possibility of someone being scum just because they townread me. Now I'm voting Mikey for this reason.

Mikey's behavior is weird, last game when he was town he wasn't going after the people doing setup speculation despite the fact that there was a lot going on. And what's with this business about pocketing, like of course I'm not going to discount the possibility of someone being scum just because they townread me. Now I'm voting Mikey for this reason.

That's cool. Are you in particular worried about me pocketing you? Just answer the question. It's not like it could hurt you to answer, right?

No, and any player who knows me will tell you that I'm not particularly easy to pocket. But why even ask me in the first place, this seems like a weird question to ask to someone who asked a question to you

I think I'm fine making a town core of Sloonei and Mikey for now. Perhaps my more confident town reads / the only ones I feel like I have some reason for.

By the way, full disclosure, I will be aiming for accuracy over stating reads for the sake of being town read for them, which, surprisingly, is what I was usually doing.

I don't know why you want to make a towncore this early in the game. Even ignoring that it's still too early to say for sure whether they're both town, at this point in the game everyone should be participating.

The activity comment felt out of place, it's perfectly reasonable to ask about the absence of 2 players when it could be an issue that may cause a re-rand, it wouldn't be an issue if, on the other hand, he knew what was going on or his scum buddy wasn't missing. Although that's reaching a bit. Or maybe not. After all, in what world would a scum care if two townies weren't put in the main thread. Kudos to the mod!

I don't really like this post or the post succeeding it. It seems to make the assumption that the two missing players are town, without even considering the possibility that either might not be. I mean, if you operate under the opposite assumption, then you can make the opposite point just as easily ("Scum would be much more concerned about the missing players because their scumbuddy might be missing!"). Overall, it's grasping at straws for a reason to suspect.

Has anyone actually tried to defend LC? I'm a bit wary of the growing LC wagon at the moment as D1 wagons with little resistance rarely land on scum.

I didn't even notice that he had votes. Why are you worried about the growth of his wagon? Do you have any particular thoughts on Drago or speedchuck regarding their votes?

Speedchuck joining the wagon seems a bit opportunistic, he had one post that was sort of shading LC but wasn't too enthusiastic (that was a followup from a question by Drago) and then just voted. Judging by the response to your and Dragomir's posts about LC, no one is really defending them, which makes it seem an opportunistic wagon to join on.

@ts account never voted Sloonei through all of this.

Why not?

I do think this is an interesting point, though. Considering that there were already two votes on Sloonei at the time, he may have not wanted to appear too opportunistic. His constant tunneling that day was a waste of time especially for someone who wanted more interaction.

I'll stop there.

Unrelated thought: This list of reads feels arbitrary, and a couple of the reads fit the mold of this post's main premise.

I can see a lot of my civ play in what you're scumreading Leetic for.

I wouldn't say I'm scum reading him.

I don't get why any of this exists.

At the beginning of Day 1, you said:

This mini progression:

Spoiler: show

C'mon guys, I'm here, why are y'all not doing anything

1. leetic wants to get the action started.

Spoiler: show

Usually much more has happened by now. This feels weird.

Right now, [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine. He is usually one of the more active people who tries to get stuff going, but right now his only contributions have been setup speculation. I'm not really seeing him trying to get any meaningful discussion going so I have to be suspicious.

2. Frustrated at the lack of action, leetic makes something happen. He specifically targets a player he expects to be vocal.

Spoiler: show

The intention of the posts themselves was not to speculate about mechanics. That particular post was me realizing that it was probably not a host error, and a search for answers among the folks who knew the theme better than I do. I don’t actually give a shit what the speculative mechanics might be. I just care that the possibility for mechanics exists.

Now explain why my mindset is not indicative of an honest civilian.

Suppose you were given the information that a mechanic exists that removes the two players from the player list, they cannot be voted on or targeted with actions, and they cannot post.
Where do you go from there?

Funnygurl, please tell me you are not a wolf.

Y'know, this post is a bit weird. Mikey is calling out Sloonei for setup speculation, yet when you look at the first paragraph, that's exactly what he's doing here

Care to explain?

3. leetic follows up on the events he has set in motion.


All of this looks good to me. leetic looks engaged and thoughtful. He's generating content, but he's not forcing reads.

Then you voted leetic for this:

I want to return to this post as well:

Reads on a few more active players:

Dragomir: I think a lot of his posts have been more CWAC. I mean, there's very little that he has posted that Sloonei hadn't already posted, and he's only interacting with the same people that Sloonei had been. GTH scum, because I do not see him making his own content.

Funnygurl: Likely town, seems similar to her town play in the hydra game.

Master Radishes: I do like their posts so far, does seem like they are trying to solve the game and approaching multiple players, so town read.

Sloonei: I'd say town, as he is now trying to get discussion going.

tedxtr: I honestly am not a fan of this slot, I explained why their vote for me was kinda lame and I don't really like his "Was to shoot shit around, I wanted to bait a reaction or something", it seems like backtracking given that his initial vote for me was laden with the same amount of reasoning. Scum read for sure.

ts account: His play in this game is much different than what I'm used to, he's much more tunnelly than he usually is and is much less casual during D1. I haven't seen his scum play yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is it.

No one asked for this and it did not seem like it had any direction to it. leetic just plopped down six reads on six sporadically-selected names. I could see this being the product of a big bad wolf who wants to look proactive. The reads are all pretty superficial, and we can see the seeds of his ted vote which he is still clinging to at this very moment, and which I've just highlighted as the basis for my current vote. The dragomir suspicion also seems arbitrary, and the ts read is the kind of loosely-held suspicion that I could see as a mafioso putting a pin in a case in the event that it gains momentum later on.

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

[speedchuck]

Basically Ted was pompous as scum in the other game and blustered his way to endgame.

He's not like that in this game.

It's a meta read but I think it's a good one, considering how much time I spent pursuing and being screwed over by him a couple weeks ago.

[Epignosis]

I should finish reading everything before I post.

I got some names mixed up from multitasking while sleep-deprived. Your vote is bad.

What about now?

[Master Radishes]

Speedchuck

To jump to my conclusions: everything in Speedchuck's ISO could easily be produced by a wolf. It's surface-level, it's more questions than answers, it does little to advance the game state, etc. Is it a hard scumread? No. It wouldn't be the first time a lost villager is mistaken for a wolf, if that's what this is. But if you're looking for scum, this sure looks like one...


-The bulk of his play has been very basic questions and statements. There's plenty in his ISO - plenty - if you want to check, but just a few examples:

Spoiler: show

I don't see ts as civ anymore.

What changed?

All Role PMs have been sent! It is now D1, which will end at a majority vote or by April 2, 7pm EDT.

For somebody opposed to mechanics discussions, you're quick to point out mechanics to people like me.

This is a horrible post for Epi.

You're the second person to say this and I don't know whether either of you are serious.

Leetic feels cornered

What's the point you're making? He's civilian because he's being pushed into a wall or is he scum because he reacts poorly?

Which one do you think I meant? If you had to guess

I don't get the point of this.

I'd rate my confidence on Sloonei, Tedxtr, TS Account and Funnygirl being town, right at this second, as 9.9/10 on all four. So it'd be nice if y'all spent the time to find each other so we can dominate this shit.

convince me on the gal and the ted. I've seen nothing from ted that would be incompatible with the version of him we just played with in the goc.

Really? He seems completely different to me.

-At other times he's been a bit hesitant, a bit waffley.

Spoiler: show

Okay forgive me if my memory is playing tricks on me but didn't Mac self-vote as mafia just last game? Then survived that day? And was scum?

It's the self-votes that survive, those are the scummy ones.

This did not happen. Mac might have self-voted at some point in the middle of a day, but he never left it there as a final vote.

Does that make the difference to you (assuming that he did)?

@MacDougall If you would indulge me, did you self vote in LC's game and why?

I mean, I don’t think Long Con is mafia in this instance, so I don’t follow this premise to the same conclusion as you regardless.

But also yes, there’s a clear difference. A self-vote in the middle of the day is purely for show. It means nothing in the end. A self-vote that remains in place tells us that self-sacrifice was a legitimate possibility for the player. Or at least it would appear so on the surface.

In a game with role madness, I'm more interested in the end result. Maybe mafia has a doublevoter and they wanted to run a gambit. Even then it's within one vote, but it's different.

Then again, I lynched G-man too, so maybe I'm just expecting optimal play and it's not happening.

How confident are you in your Long Con vote?

Maybe 60%? I'm not married to it, but I also think it bears talking about.

-The closest he's come to scumhunting have been...lacklustre, e.g. just saying 'This bad'.

Spoiler: show

I'm not really considering it seriously, just entertaining a reality where it exists

This bad.

Leetic feels cornered

What's the point you're making? He's civilian because he's being pushed into a wall or is he scum because he reacts poorly?

Which one do you think I meant? If you had to guess

This bad.

Something is wrong with Long Con. He doesn't usually play with this tight of a grip. Like a rattlesnake getting all coiled up. He often gets suspected early and I'm one of the first to rush to his defense because I recognize his town game but this is off-meta for him and I think he knows it

This bad.

Epi is bringing an unnecessarily hostile tone to an otherwise reasonable thread, idk what that means really just an observation

This bad.

None of these would be bad alone, but there is no good in between them.

I am about halfway through my post, but so much has changed in the last two pages that it's now all outdated lol

That's why you gotta just spew

Hey speed, do you have any reads? Ever since you came back online you made several posts lacking substance.

Mac, Ted, ts account town. TH scum. LC back around null. Those are the ones I've been gnawing on.

I want to believe funnygurl is town because she seems like she's having fun, but I don't know enough about her.

ok speeds here.

if not th then which person would you also wanna see die? I dont disagree with your th analysis but the wagon coming out of nowhere along with your sudden endorsement of it is sketchy

If not TH...

I'm not entirely against LC dying, but he looks better to me now that he's been at it longer. Dragomir's not a bad option, neither is Epi or TSP. Leetic... I'm not sure why the thread turned on him after he was most towny in the first few pages. I read sloonei's reasons, but I just haven't read closely enough to catch that I guess.

(He immediately follows this up immediately with a post acknowledging his 'player salad'. It's very self-aware of what he's done and how he'll look from it.)

Here's a fun one: A readlist based only on people's current votes:

Good votes - MacDougall, Sloonei, Funnygurl, ts account, Epignosis
Not Good Votes - Turnip Head, Master Radishes, Long Con, TSP, Ted

All this is very nitpicky, I freely admit. A lurky townie could do this sort of thing.

But what I particularly don't like is how he looks coming out of last round's vote.

He starts with an awfully waffley reads list:

ok speeds here.

if not th then which person would you also wanna see die? I dont disagree with your th analysis but the wagon coming out of nowhere along with your sudden endorsement of it is sketchy

If not TH...

I'm not entirely against LC dying, but he looks better to me now that he's been at it longer. Dragomir's not a bad option, neither is Epi or TSP. Leetic... I'm not sure why the thread turned on him after he was most towny in the first few pages. I read sloonei's reasons, but I just haven't read closely enough to catch that I guess.

It's very fence-sitting on a few names, and his 'read' on leetic is particularly bad in this regard. Keep in mind, this is only 4ish hours to EoD.

Then, with only 2 hours left:

I've heard the case on leetic, even though I don't put much stock in it.

What's the supposed case on Ted? He's one of my stronger townreads.

...And that's the last we hear from speedchuck before EoD. He sits on his LC vote, which he is 'not entirely against'.

Keep in mind leetic was sort of the lead wagon, with LC and Ted as the viable alternatives in this time frame. Speed has basically absolved himself of being blamed for any of them, and is even angling for some post-vote cred where no one else was really defending leetic.


As I say, there's room for error in calling Speed mafia, but nothing I'm reading in his posts comes close to convincing me he's town.

[Master Radishes]

I have TH to ISO still. Dinner first.

[Epignosis]

Actually, don't worry about it. It'll just be 'I read it this way' 'but I meant it this way' sort of discussion, which I don't find particularly useful, myself.

Ted, why did you vote Leetic? I know it's a common enough tactic for civs to vote without reasoning, but 'this feels good for now' is a sort of pseudo-justification that sends sirens off for me. Why does/did it feel good?

Radishes gave ted shit about voting for leetic but ended up voting leetic himself. Mind you ted had three votes and leetic had four.

I'm in mild agreement with suspicions about leetic, but his list of voters is uninspiring.

Here the tide starts to turn. "Mild agreement" "Voters uninspiring."

What the hell is an inspiring voter? What does that mean?

So, leetic... I'll do this like counting cards in Blackjack. Start at 0, +value for towny, -value for wolfy.

First post (beyond guitar vid) is criticising the level of Day 1 activity in the thread. A valid criticism, we were 7 hours into Day 1, and not one player had tried to get serious. I liked this opener. +2 (2)

Second post votes Sloonei for having three posts, 100% dedicated to setup speculation. 4 hours AFTER telling the thread to get going, with still no serious responses. I liked this as well, which is why I decided to double down the vote. +2 (4)

Third post is a little sketchy. It's nice to see the genesis of the Mikey-Sloonei thing, but leetic's calling Mikey's post "weird" doesn't check out, because Mikey isn't "calling out Sloonei for setup speculation", he's criticising Sloonei's speculation with a hypothetcal designed to reveal the pointlessness of Sloonei's discussion. -1 (3)

Post 4:

Y'know, this post is a bit weird. Mikey is calling out Sloonei for setup speculation, yet when you look at the first paragraph, that's exactly what he's doing here

Care to explain?

I would like to know from you. Are you worried about me pocketing you?

Mikey's behavior is weird, last game when he was town he wasn't going after the people doing setup speculation despite the fact that there was a lot going on. And what's with this business about pocketing, like of course I'm not going to discount the possibility of someone being scum just because they townread me. Now I'm voting Mikey for this reason.

I quoted this one because Mikey's post is something I don't really understand. I don't see how that is, in any way, a response to leetic's question. It's a really weird response.

THEN leetic responds to Mikey... but in third person, like he's presenting Mikey's post to everyone else rather than responding to it. Also just weird, I don't really like that he specifically disengaged from the conversation, but it makes them look less than teammate-compatible, so there's that. Vote switch does please me, and makes sense, if Mikey's departure from previous town behaviour is accurate, it's a better reason to vote than Sloonei's speculation. +0 (3)... -1 for ts account.

Post 5 continues the meatiness that I am so far liking in leetic's posts. The "pocketing" discussion so far is just randomly generated by Mikey, and leetic's response to his pressing on the subject is the right response to the odd curveball.

Suspicion of tedxtr's early towncore feels good.

Radishes calls leetic out on the casual (too casual?) talk, leetic gives a reasonable response. Maybe Radishes is right, I wouldn't have noticed such a thing if he hadn't pointed it out. Slight minus on this post's score, a la Radish.

The tedxtr interactions, I don't agree with tedxtr's criticism of leetic's... whole game so far, I guess. +1 (4)

Post 6 leetic gives a list of reads with some explanation. Looks like genuine solving. +1 (5)

Post 7 Dragomir responded negatively to leetic's assessment that he was just sheeping Sloonei with no original thoughts. Dragomir's reaction to the accusation was mild defensive hostility, which is a -1 for him, and leetic's reply was a reasonable explanation and a prod toward fixing the apparent problem. Dragomir would have looked better if he had given original thoughts instead of just bristling at leetic's observation. +1 again for leetic (6)

Post 8 Dragomir doubles down on the idea that leetic is prodding him to "create random thoughts out of thin air so [he] could be original". Like, where do thoughts come from usually? Amazon? You have to, like, think about things to get thoughts. leetic shames Dragomir and casts a vote that I judge to be valid. +1 (7) Is leetic still in the lead for votes? He looks really town so far, where are the suspicions coming from?

I think you're being a bit generous in giving out your +s. E.g. his opener was okay, but +2? That's an opening post a wolf could definitely make. And with the last couple posts, I actually felt leetic's insistence that Drago come up with reads on me/Ted was a bit contrived - Drago had explained he wasn't going to and didn't need to, and leetic tried to make it sound like that was unthinkable, which I don't think it is.

But overall, I agree that leetic's play has been fine on reflection. I wouldn't place him out of the PoE by any means, but other than a couple of circumstantial details (casual tone, pressing of Drago over something inconsequential) I don't see any red flags.

leetic is fine again. No red flags.

I'm in mild agreement with suspicions about leetic, but his list of voters is uninspiring.

Can you elaborate? This feels like the most wishywashy read you've posted all game

I can make far wishierwashier posts, don't you worry.

To elaborate: I was trying to say that, sure, I don't particularly townread you myself, but the people currently voting for you are players I'm equally iffy on (TSP has done nothing, Ted I've made my thoughts clear on, Funnygurl has posted a lot but hasn't said very much). Do I really want to follow the lead of three players I'm null, at best, about?

leetic expressed a negative viewpoint against Radishes.

At least I see what "uninspiring voters" means. It's a way to make others responsible for the lack of conviction behind your own vote.

Leetic - similarly to LC, there was an early post of his I felt was iffy based on its tone/phrasing; in Leetic's defense, he has continued to talk in the same way, so I think my argument there is invalid. Beyond that, I feel that I generally don't mind his posts individually, and I feel I see an attempt to gamesolve. But at the same time, I feel as if he's...on his own. Like, he's not really tussling with others, just sort of floating by on the fringe of what's going on. And that rings an alarm bell for me.

Why would leetic being on his own set off alarm bells? Wouldn't that be a civilian indicator?

Let’s maj leetic

Since I cased you, could you at least have the decency to case me? Your current case stinks

There's no world where you believe in your scum read on me as a town here.

To jump off of this, a long while back I noticed my two early mild suspicions (you and leetic) did not seem aligned. It's D1 so I wasn't concerned about that, figuring it would sort itself out as time went on, and in the moment I decided you were more suspicious so voted there first.

But I do feel like leetic has stuck to his scumread of you and I don't really remember why he thinks you're scum. Basically, his read feels static. I know to you, ted, this must sound rich coming from me, but I didn't actually keep harping on about you the entire time - it only came up again once I re-voted you later and you asked why. (And I've already said I'm shifting away from that read.)

When I read leetic's posts I like them well enough, but then later (like now) I can't remember what he's thinking. That might be my own failing, but it's also something I'm a bit uncertain about with regard to his presence in the game.

I hesitate to lynch someone who's been on the lynch list for most of D1 - in general, I prefer some movement as the day evolves - but of all the ongoing wagons this is the one I'm still most okay with existing.


(Feel free not to respond to me, ted, since you made clear you don't want to play with me. And FYI my vote is coming off you at some point, I just haven't found a landing spot yet.)

This is the last thing Radishes had to say about leetic before voting.

But I still have more things to say. The perfectionist in me wants to lay out my case for leetic in full, among other things.

Go for it. I'm willing to vote leetic, but I'll hold off.

[VOTE: Leetic] aubergine

I have to go soon. Bed time for radishes.

I hope you slept well.

God I wish I had two votes to cast.

[speedchuck]

I should finish reading everything before I post.

I got some names mixed up from multitasking while sleep-deprived. Your vote is bad.

What about now?

Better.

[Epignosis]

I'm trying to read ted's leetic stuff but I'm not understanding half of it. Will revisit.

[Long Con]

[VOTE: radish] aubergine

I've been thinking about it, and I'm feeling a TMI vibe from radishes, he is too sure that I'm Civ.

[Epignosis]

Tony voted leetic and it doesn't look like he ever took his foot off the gas.

Leetic is putting in real work here.

Okay then.

[Master Radishes]

Blah blah blah making a big deal out of nothing.

So basically I was uncertain about leetic's alignment and adjusted my stance slightly a few times over 72 hours? Wow. Thank god we have you on the case.

As you like to say, do better.

[Master Radishes]

[VOTE: radish] aubergine

I've been thinking about it, and I'm feeling a TMI vibe from radishes, he is too sure that I'm Civ.

Are you a civ?

[Master Radishes]

People are moving votes without calling it in thread. I thought that was bad etiquette.

[Turnip Head]

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine I feel reasonably confident with this vote

[Master Radishes]

Okay, one person did. And now he's done it. Never mind, I was just too quick to notice.

[Epignosis]

Blah blah blah making a big deal out of nothing.

So basically I was uncertain about leetic's alignment and adjusted my stance slightly a few times over 72 hours? Wow. Thank god we have you on the case.

As you like to say, do better.

My vote is on Sloonei. Am I doing better?

[Long Con]

[VOTE: radish] aubergine

I've been thinking about it, and I'm feeling a TMI vibe from radishes, he is too sure that I'm Civ.

Are you a civ?

[Master Radishes]

Blah blah blah making a big deal out of nothing.

So basically I was uncertain about leetic's alignment and adjusted my stance slightly a few times over 72 hours? Wow. Thank god we have you on the case.

As you like to say, do better.

My vote is on Sloonei. Am I doing better?

You're voting for someone no one else is voting for with a few hours left, and meanwhile throwing shade in a couple other directions. Is that better?

[Master Radishes]

[VOTE: radish] aubergine

I've been thinking about it, and I'm feeling a TMI vibe from radishes, he is too sure that I'm Civ.

Are you a civ?

Then maybe I'm just good at playing this game and I figured out you were a civ.

[Master Radishes]

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine I feel reasonably confident with this vote

This is...ehhh.

I need to find time to complete my ISO of Turnip.

[Epignosis]

Blah blah blah making a big deal out of nothing.

So basically I was uncertain about leetic's alignment and adjusted my stance slightly a few times over 72 hours? Wow. Thank god we have you on the case.

As you like to say, do better.

My vote is on Sloonei. Am I doing better?

You're voting for someone no one else is voting for with a few hours left, and meanwhile throwing shade in a couple other directions. Is that better?

If that's your concern, I can remedy that.

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

[Master Radishes]

Blah blah blah making a big deal out of nothing.

So basically I was uncertain about leetic's alignment and adjusted my stance slightly a few times over 72 hours? Wow. Thank god we have you on the case.

As you like to say, do better.

My vote is on Sloonei. Am I doing better?

You're voting for someone no one else is voting for with a few hours left, and meanwhile throwing shade in a couple other directions. Is that better?

If that's your concern, I can remedy that.

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

Yeah, if you prefer.

[Epignosis]

Blah blah blah making a big deal out of nothing.

So basically I was uncertain about leetic's alignment and adjusted my stance slightly a few times over 72 hours? Wow. Thank god we have you on the case.

As you like to say, do better.

My vote is on Sloonei. Am I doing better?

You're voting for someone no one else is voting for with a few hours left, and meanwhile throwing shade in a couple other directions. Is that better?

If that's your concern, I can remedy that.

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

Yeah, if you prefer.

You're voting for someone else no one else is voting for with a few hours left.

Spoiler: show

Got his ass.