Assassin's Creed Mafia (OVER!)

[TonyStarkPrime]

Some stuff that hits slightly different if he sometimes has immunity. Can’t decipher if he expected to be immune night one or night two.

I'm sorry, but I do not get the same analysis here as you do. It looks to me like he is just including himself in the PoE. I would also expected MacDougall to have claimed the shot.

If he had shot night 1?

[ts account]

okay I’ve had enough
Vote FG

it’s Epi FG Speed lock it in

If you believe it to be both, will you commit to lynching Epignosis today?

[ts account]

Some stuff that hits slightly different if he sometimes has immunity. Can’t decipher if he expected to be immune night one or night two.

I'm sorry, but I do not get the same analysis here as you do. It looks to me like he is just including himself in the PoE. I would also expected MacDougall to have claimed the shot.

If he had shot night 1?

Specifically, if he had shot Dragomir.

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: funnygurl] aubergine

but why

Well you claim to have watched Mac on Night 1. You also answered my question about when Mac would have been more likely to use his pirate ship ability by saying that Night 1 makes more sense.

If Mac used his pirate ship on Night 1, you can't have watched him unless you also had a pirate ship. You've already said that you do not.

i have an eagle

And? What does the eagle do?

my eagle's the watcher technically, not me

well now we're getting into a tricky gray area, because this raises the question of whether or not there is anything in the language of your role card that implies this would be the case, but asking that feels unethical and I wouldn't want to do anything that could possibly break the game. All I will say is that Mac's role card indicates firmly that no one should be able to target him unless they also have a pirate ship and are using it at the same time as he is. There is no hint of exceptions in his role card. You've already told us you don't have a pirate ship.

[TonyStarkPrime]

okay I’ve had enough
Vote FG

it’s Epi FG Speed lock it in

If you believe it to be both, will you commit to lynching Epignosis today?

If it gets to that point, yes

[ts account]

well now we're getting into a tricky gray area, because this raises the question of whether or not there is anything in the language of your role card that implies this would be the case, but asking that feels unethical and I wouldn't want to do anything that could possibly break the game. All I will say is that Mac's role card indicates firmly that no one should be able to target him unless they also have a pirate ship and are using it at the same time as he is. There is no hint of exceptions in his role card. You've already told us you don't have a pirate ship.

It is super easy to justify flavorfully, and the role PMs have already shown to have unclear wording at times.

[Sloonei]

moved my vote back to no one. I don't want to put us in a position where mafia can rush a hammer. I'm still eyeballing funnygurl.

[Funnygurl555]

[VOTE: funnygurl] aubergine

but why

Well you claim to have watched Mac on Night 1. You also answered my question about when Mac would have been more likely to use his pirate ship ability by saying that Night 1 makes more sense.

If Mac used his pirate ship on Night 1, you can't have watched him unless you also had a pirate ship. You've already said that you do not.

i have an eagle

And? What does the eagle do?

my eagle's the watcher technically, not me

well now we're getting into a tricky gray area, because this raises the question of whether or not there is anything in the language of your role card that implies this would be the case, but asking that feels unethical and I wouldn't want to do anything that could possibly break the game. All I will say is that Mac's role card indicates firmly that no one should be able to target him unless they also have a pirate ship and are using it at the same time as he is. There is no hint of exceptions in his role card. You've already told us you don't have a pirate ship.

yeah i don't have one

[ts account]

There, I know I am town, so the wolves can go ahead and hammer. They are not doing so, so I cannot help but be certain that Epignosis is mafia (and furthermore that funnygurl is not).

[TonyStarkPrime]

Some stuff that hits slightly different if he sometimes has immunity. Can’t decipher if he expected to be immune night one or night two.

I'm sorry, but I do not get the same analysis here as you do. It looks to me like he is just including himself in the PoE. I would also expected MacDougall to have claimed the shot.

If he had shot night 1?

Specifically, if he had shot Dragomir.

I agree with this as well.

[Sloonei]

well now we're getting into a tricky gray area, because this raises the question of whether or not there is anything in the language of your role card that implies this would be the case, but asking that feels unethical and I wouldn't want to do anything that could possibly break the game. All I will say is that Mac's role card indicates firmly that no one should be able to target him unless they also have a pirate ship and are using it at the same time as he is. There is no hint of exceptions in his role card. You've already told us you don't have a pirate ship.

It is super easy to justify flavorfully, and the role PMs have already shown to have unclear wording at times.

Why do you believe funnygurl over epi?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Some stuff that hits slightly different if he sometimes has immunity. Can’t decipher if he expected to be immune night one or night two.

I'm sorry, but I do not get the same analysis here as you do. It looks to me like he is just including himself in the PoE. I would also expected MacDougall to have claimed the shot.

If he had shot night 1?

Specifically, if he had shot Dragomir.

I agree with this as well.

Though if he took a shot and FG is telling the truth, it would have failed as Epi would have blocked it.

[Sloonei]

There, I know I am town, so the wolves can go ahead and hammer. They are not doing so, so I cannot help but be certain that Epignosis is mafia (and furthermore that funnygurl is not).

multiple players are not here right now.

[Sloonei]

Some stuff that hits slightly different if he sometimes has immunity. Can’t decipher if he expected to be immune night one or night two.

I'm sorry, but I do not get the same analysis here as you do. It looks to me like he is just including himself in the PoE. I would also expected MacDougall to have claimed the shot.

If he had shot night 1?

Specifically, if he had shot Dragomir.

I agree with this as well.

Though if he took a shot and FG is telling the truth, it would have failed as Epi would have blocked it.

Unless epi is lying about being a roleblocker.

but... yeah, this is true. BUT also if he took a shot then the only way epi could have blocked it is if he also had a pirate ship.

[Funnygurl555]

Some stuff that hits slightly different if he sometimes has immunity. Can’t decipher if he expected to be immune night one or night two.

I'm sorry, but I do not get the same analysis here as you do. It looks to me like he is just including himself in the PoE. I would also expected MacDougall to have claimed the shot.

If he had shot night 1?

Specifically, if he had shot Dragomir.

I agree with this as well.

Though if he took a shot and FG is telling the truth, it would have failed as Epi would have blocked it.

but epi said he targeted no one n1

[ts account]

Why do you believe funnygurl over epi?

There is a potential for me to be biased, but I do believe funnygurl has played the townier and more cooperative game up to this point. Upon being made aware of the dichotomy, Epignosis has not done any favors for himself, threatening to self-hammer (which if he truly was a villager would throw the game on the spot), refusing to provide information or deliberately being obfuscating, being unwilling to case Funnygurl or show why he is town, and being caught in lies beyond that (such as whether or not he had targeted anyone N1).

[ts account]

I... really think massclaiming is the right thing to do. If JJJ disagrees, then I cannot really push the issue further, but I believe it would increase our odds of winning, however slight.

[Sloonei]

Why do you believe funnygurl over epi?

There is a potential for me to be biased, but I do believe funnygurl has played the townier and more cooperative game up to this point. Upon being made aware of the dichotomy, Epignosis has not done any favors for himself, threatening to self-hammer (which if he truly was a villager would throw the game on the spot), refusing to provide information or deliberately being obfuscating, being unwilling to case Funnygurl or show why he is town, and being caught in lies beyond that (such as whether or not he had targeted anyone N1).

Devil's advocate to all of these points:
Appearing cooperative is something a member of the mafia team would want to do. It would be one of their primary goals.
Epi's response is one of frustration because he is a civilian and he's being lied about.
He has not been clear on the language of his role card, but I would not leap to say that is "refusal to provide information." It could just as easily be miscommunication.
Epi is not caught in a lie if funnygurl is the one who is lying.

[Sloonei]

I... really think massclaiming is the right thing to do. If JJJ disagrees, then I cannot really push the issue further, but I believe it would increase our odds of winning, however slight.

Why?

[ts account]

Devil's advocate to all of these points:
Appearing cooperative is something a member of the mafia team would want to do. It would be one of their primary goals.
Epi's response is one of frustration because he is a civilian and he's being lied about.
He has not been clear on the language of his role card, but I would not leap to say that is "refusal to provide information." It could just as easily be miscommunication.
Epi is not caught in a lie if funnygurl is the one who is lying.

Your first two lines are pretty stupid, so I will ignore them.
If Epignosis' communication of his role PM is poor, then he has a responsibility to communicate with the host to elucidate him on the nature of his abilities. Even if Funnygurl is lying, Epignosis is still caught in a lie, for both saying, "I forgot to submit any night actions for night 1," and, "I targeted Mac night 1 but got 'limited'."

[Funnygurl555]

Epi is not caught in a lie if funnygurl is the one who is lying.

[Funnygurl555]

Devil's advocate to all of these points:
Appearing cooperative is something a member of the mafia team would want to do. It would be one of their primary goals.
Epi's response is one of frustration because he is a civilian and he's being lied about.
He has not been clear on the language of his role card, but I would not leap to say that is "refusal to provide information." It could just as easily be miscommunication.
Epi is not caught in a lie if funnygurl is the one who is lying.

Your first two lines are pretty stupid, so I will ignore them.
If Epignosis' communication of his role PM is poor, then he has a responsibility to communicate with the host to elucidate him on the nature of his abilities. Even if Funnygurl is lying, Epignosis is still caught in a lie, for both saying, "I forgot to submit any night actions for night 1," and, "I targeted Mac night 1 but got 'limited'."

i think he didn't mean to say he targeted mac tho

[Sloonei]

If Mac used his ship last night, the mafia team would have needed to guess/know that he was using it and used their own player who also has a pirate ship to specifically target him.

If Mac didn't use his ship last night then he used it on Night 1. If Mac used his ship on Night 1, I maintain that funnygurl is probably lying.

[ts account]

I... really think massclaiming is the right thing to do. If JJJ disagrees, then I cannot really push the issue further, but I believe it would increase our odds of winning, however slight.

Why?

It gives us a clearer mechanical picture of what happened on nights 1 and 2, it has a chance for us to structure a plan of action to lock a winning night phase, and it gives mafia a small chance to out themselves.

[ts account]

If Mac used his ship last night, the mafia team would have needed to guess/know that he was using it and used their own player who also has a pirate ship to specifically target him.

If Mac didn't use his ship last night then he used it on Night 1. If Mac used his ship on Night 1, I maintain that funnygurl is probably lying.

Not necessarily. It did not say Macdougall could only target players on pirate ships, so it is entirely possible that the person making the nightkill was on a pirate ship to strategically make the odds of the nightkill going through higher.

[Sloonei]

Devil's advocate to all of these points:
Appearing cooperative is something a member of the mafia team would want to do. It would be one of their primary goals.
Epi's response is one of frustration because he is a civilian and he's being lied about.
He has not been clear on the language of his role card, but I would not leap to say that is "refusal to provide information." It could just as easily be miscommunication.
Epi is not caught in a lie if funnygurl is the one who is lying.

Your first two lines are pretty stupid, so I will ignore them.

Can you please stop dismissing things like this? It can be insulting, but on top of that I think it's actively harmful to the game. I am making these points for the sake of conversation. Saying "I'm not responding to this because it's stupid" stops that in its tracks.

If Epignosis' communication of his role PM is poor, then he has a responsibility to communicate with the host to elucidate him on the nature of his abilities. Even if Funnygurl is lying, Epignosis is still caught in a lie, for both saying, "I forgot to submit any night actions for night 1," and, "I targeted Mac night 1 but got 'limited'."

Epi has already corrected himself (multiple times) from when he said he targeted Mac night 1. He claims to have misspoke.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I misread Mac’s role.

[ts account]

Is it bad if I still wolf read you for tone, behavior, and asking terrible questions all day?
I just have to keep in mind that if you were a wolf, you would have already won last night.

[Sloonei]

If Mac used his ship last night, the mafia team would have needed to guess/know that he was using it and used their own player who also has a pirate ship to specifically target him.

If Mac didn't use his ship last night then he used it on Night 1. If Mac used his ship on Night 1, I maintain that funnygurl is probably lying.

Not necessarily. It did not say Macdougall could only target players on pirate ships, so it is entirely possible that the person making the nightkill was on a pirate ship to strategically make the odds of the nightkill going through higher.

This is true. There's still a lot more variables involved if we think that mac used his ship last night, though.

[Sloonei]

Is it bad if I still wolf read you for tone, behavior, and asking terrible questions all day?
I just have to keep in mind that if you were a wolf, you would have already won last night.

Yes it is.

[Funnygurl555]

Is it bad if I still wolf read you for tone, behavior, and asking terrible questions all day?
I just have to keep in mind that if you were a wolf, you would have already won last night.

this ain't nice to say man :/

[Sloonei]

I misread Mac’s role.

What did you think it said?

[TonyStarkPrime]

And before anyone pulls out the magnifying glass, Epi’s mistake isn’t necessarily scummy. For proof, I know there have been at least a few examples in this game of people typing the thing opposite what they mean.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I misread Mac’s role.

What did you think it said?

Switch between untargetable and kill

[Sloonei]

dev·il's ad·vo·cate
/ˈˌdevəlz ˈadvəkət/
noun

a person who expresses a contentious opinion in order to provoke debate or test the strength of the opposing arguments.

[ts account]

I will amend to say that by terrible I mean they are not questions that I think you should be asking, which is certainly similar to my gripe with you day 1.

[Sloonei]

I misread Mac’s role.

What did you think it said?

Switch between untargetable and kill

Do you believe funnygurl's claim?

[Sloonei]

I will amend to say that by terrible I mean they are not questions that I think you should be asking, which is certainly similar to my gripe with you day 1.

Which questions should I not be asking? Why are there any questions that should be off limits at this stage?

[Funnygurl555]

i know no one asked but i was an unwanted child

[Funnygurl555]

i know no one asked but i was an unwanted child

but if you were to ask then that would prolly be a terrible question

[Funnygurl555]

i'm also town

[TonyStarkPrime]

I misread Mac’s role.

What did you think it said?

Switch between untargetable and kill

Do you believe funnygurl's claim?

Makes it more likely that Mac was targetable night 1, I think, since he didn’t claim the kill and would have had no reason to. But would have required him to shoot Ted night 2. Best guess, failed kill night 1. Which means Epi is lying about the boat.

Unrelated, Sloonei, have you claimed a character?

[ts account]

A good example is your line of questioning on Funnygurl. If you were not mechanically town I would wolf read you for it.

[Sloonei]

I misread Mac’s role.

What did you think it said?

Switch between untargetable and kill

Do you believe funnygurl's claim?

Makes it more likely that Mac was targetable night 1, I think, since he didn’t claim the kill and would have had no reason to. But would have required him to shoot Ted night 2. Best guess, failed kill night 1. Which means Epi is lying about the boat.

Unrelated, Sloonei, have you claimed a character?

A failed kill is a possibility on either night. We have no way of knowing for sure.

I have not claimed a character or a role for that matter. Just an item I received and a shot I took with it.

[Sloonei]

A good example is your line of questioning on Funnygurl. If you were not mechanically town I would wolf read you for it.

Why? I have concerns and I’m going to see them through.

[ts account]

They start off fine, but arriving at the conclusion that Funnygurl must be lying... because eagles... or something... doesn't feel like honest solving to me.

[ts account]

Whatever, you aren't a wolf. You do you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am only barely here at present. Regarding a "mass claim" -- I don't see a problem with it off-hand assuming all rules are respected. The game hangs in the balance after all, and if some key information is withheld too carefully that would otherwise influence reads, then that's not ideal.

Such an action really depends upon the roles in question and how individuals feel they may be able to take advantage of them. I only advise that too much caution right now is of little benefit. LyLo.

[Sloonei]

They start off fine, but arriving at the conclusion that Funnygurl must be lying... because eagles... or something... doesn't feel like honest solving to me.

I never brought up eagles. That was all funnygurl. Which part of the progression do you dislike or not follow?

>Mac’s pirate ship makes him immune to abilities by players who are not also on pirate ships.
>funnygurl claims to have targeted Mac on Night 1.
>funnygurl says she thinks Mac used his pirate ship Night 1.
>funnygurl confirms she does not have a pirate ship, in which case she would not have been able to target Mac had he been on his ship Night 1.

Do you disagree that there is potential for her to be caught in a lie here? It is not confirmed and I do not intend to act like it is. But this absolutely should he explored before we make a decision. I don’t see how we could justify not talking about it.

[nutella]

Master Radishes [4]: Funnygurl, Epi, Long Con, Turnip Head
Turnip Head [4]: MacDougall, Master Radishes, Sloonei, speedchuck
speedchuck [3]: tedxtr, ts account, TonyStarkPrime

speed's town now right? he was that last vote for turnip 8 min before eod

Eh, I'm not taking this as a clear, could always be a hard bus for cred or just a gamble he took hoping it would work out. Also, there's still a possibility that he knew TH would be safe due to some votecount-or-tie-affecting mechanic known only to the mafia. So I wouldn't totally clear him based on that. Especially if he knew this, he'd know Radish would be mislynched and he'd get to look like he was on the right side of history there. Maybe you're thinking exactly what he wanted you to think.