Assassin's Creed Mafia (OVER!)

[TonyStarkPrime]

Seems those Mac posts Life cereal just highlighted are compatible with him shooting ted in the ass

ted ain’t got no ship

so

Mac didn’t shoot him

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Alright gang, let's start filling 'er out. The game can be completely solved here:



I failed to darken one line and that's really disappointing, but we forge onward.

[TonyStarkPrime]

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] 1/3 of your posts D3 have been about getting people to flavorclaim. This is after we found out that Mac's protection in his role could be subverted by flavor (if he were only attacked or visited by characters with boats, probably from ACIV: Black Flag).

Tell me why we should empower all the roles that rely on flavor-related things, and I'll consider a flavor claim.

It looks like I did not miss much and yet I missed quite a lot. It is worth checking funnygurl, epignosis, and MacDougall character wikis for mentions of ships or aquatism or anything of the like, I think. I am also curious to know why Tony would like people to be character claiming.

I know something about a character. I want to know who that character is.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Seems those Mac posts Life cereal just highlighted are compatible with him shooting ted in the ass

ted ain’t got no ship

so

Mac didn’t shoot him

I don't follow. As far as I saw, the ships only influence the player targeted -- Mac can still act upon others, but not be acted upon himself when he is doing a pirate ship.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Some of this seems silly to me.

We have a dead body. tedxtr is dead. Someone killed tedxtr. These truths are irrefutable.

Nobody has claimed that shot. Mac's role kills people. Is there a reason we need to keep talking about this?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Two problems

[TonyStarkPrime]

Good news:

[TonyStarkPrime]

Mac flips:
Edward Kenway

Pirate Ship: You have a pirate ship! That’s awesome, dude. Using your pirate ship, you can make yourself untargetable to anyone that doesn’t also possess a ship. You can only use this ability every other night though, cause you have to restock your food and supplies. While on your ship, you can target someone to try and kill.

(Clarification: the kill only works on other players that possess a ship. The kill and ship action are tied together, meaning they happen on the same night. Any watchers and/or trackers that may exist in the game will still receive results if someone attempts to target you on a night you use your ship.)

You are a Righteous Warrior and win when all the Heathenous Spies have been eliminated.




See the first line of clarification

[TonyStarkPrime]

Bad news:
Ted has a ship

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Bad news:
Ted has a ship

k so good then eh

[Sloonei]

I still feel like mac targeting ted makes little sense, but all evidence seems to point there. Maybe there was a redirection, or maybe mac earnestly thought ted should be killed. I dunno, there’s not much to argue about now.

Let’s find epi’s teammates.

[TonyStarkPrime]

in my defense I’m pretty sure he didn’t have a ship yesterday

One thing this means is that Ted 100 percent had BTSC with Mac day 1

[TonyStarkPrime]

Rather, day 2

[Sloonei]

in my defense I’m pretty sure he didn’t have a ship yesterday

One thing this means is that Ted 100 percent had BTSC with Mac day 1

Yes, which is part of the reason that kill makes no sense.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If I am in BTSC with someone I suspect, I have no issue shooting them in the ass.

[Funnygurl555]

Alright gang, let's start filling 'er out. The game can be completely solved here:



I failed to darken one line and that's really disappointing, but we forge onward.

I dont get what the graph means

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I dont get what the graph means

The idea is to assess the interactive compatibility of each pair of suspects. For example:

Review Long Con and Epignosis relative to one another. Do they seem compatible as teammates? Do they not? Indicate that on the chart where their names intersect, with a word or a color or whatever.

Do every pairing.

This helps to solidify world theories and potentially to eliminate names if they don't fit with anyone else.

[Sloonei]

Alright gang, let's start filling 'er out. The game can be completely solved here:



I failed to darken one line and that's really disappointing, but we forge onward.

I dont get what the graph means

it means nothing so far. We’re supposed to fill it in.

[Funnygurl555]

Alright gang, let's start filling 'er out. The game can be completely solved here:



I failed to darken one line and that's really disappointing, but we forge onward.

I dont get what the graph means

it means nothing so far. We’re supposed to fill it in.

what do the gray cells mean?

[Funnygurl555]

I dont get what the graph means

The idea is to assess the interactive compatibility of each pair of suspects. For example:

Review Long Con and Epignosis relative to one another. Do they seem compatible as teammates? Do they not? Indicate that on the chart where their names intersect, with a word or a color or whatever.

Do every pairing.

This helps to solidify world theories and potentially to eliminate names if they don't fit with anyone else.

oh ok. but why are half the cells gray and half white?

[TonyStarkPrime]

I dont get what the graph means

The idea is to assess the interactive compatibility of each pair of suspects. For example:

Review Long Con and Epignosis relative to one another. Do they seem compatible as teammates? Do they not? Indicate that on the chart where their names intersect, with a word or a color or whatever.

Do every pairing.

This helps to solidify world theories and potentially to eliminate names if they don't fit with anyone else.

oh ok. but why are half the cells gray and half white?

You don’t need two cells for Epi/FG and you don’t need any cells for Epi/Epi

[Funnygurl555]

d1 eod should show that me and mikey aren't linked with lc. at least I dont bus people that hard. dont think mikey does either. the one time I was wolf with him he defended me p hard and was why I didnt die (i was mia a lot due to irl things).

[Funnygurl555]

I dont get what the graph means

The idea is to assess the interactive compatibility of each pair of suspects. For example:

Review Long Con and Epignosis relative to one another. Do they seem compatible as teammates? Do they not? Indicate that on the chart where their names intersect, with a word or a color or whatever.

Do every pairing.

This helps to solidify world theories and potentially to eliminate names if they don't fit with anyone else.

oh ok. but why are half the cells gray and half white?

You don’t need two cells for Epi/FG and you don’t need any cells for Epi/Epi

OH. wow thank you

[Funnygurl555]

i took easy stats in college idk man graphs are always hard

[ts account]

d1 eod should show that me and mikey aren't linked with lc. at least I dont bus people that hard. dont think mikey does either. the one time I was wolf with him he defended me p hard and was why I didnt die (i was mia a lot due to irl things).

Darn tootin.
We are never partners from my day 1, that is for sure.

[Sloonei]

d1 eod should show that me and mikey aren't linked with lc. at least I dont bus people that hard. dont think mikey does either. the one time I was wolf with him he defended me p hard and was why I didnt die (i was mia a lot due to irl things).

Darn tootin.
We are never partners from my day 1, that is for sure.

[speedchuck]

@TonyStarkPrime 1/3 of your posts D3 have been about getting people to flavorclaim. This is after we found out that Mac's protection in his role could be subverted by flavor (if he were only attacked or visited by characters with boats, probably from ACIV: Black Flag).

Tell me why we should empower all the roles that rely on flavor-related things, and I'll consider a flavor claim.

It looks like I did not miss much and yet I missed quite a lot. It is worth checking funnygurl, epignosis, and MacDougall character wikis for mentions of ships or aquatism or anything of the like, I think. I am also curious to know why Tony would like people to be character claiming.

I know something about a character. I want to know who that character is.

I don't believe that's worth the risk. Convince me otherwise.

[Sloonei]

While it’s lylo and we might assume that a massclaim automatically helps us, I also am considering that we still have a long way to go. Even with a successful claim today, we still need two more. That’s at least two more nights guaranteed. A mass claim could effectively nullify the remaining civilian roles those two nights.

[Sloonei]

ebwop: “even with a successful lynch today”

[TonyStarkPrime]

@TonyStarkPrime 1/3 of your posts D3 have been about getting people to flavorclaim. This is after we found out that Mac's protection in his role could be subverted by flavor (if he were only attacked or visited by characters with boats, probably from ACIV: Black Flag).

Tell me why we should empower all the roles that rely on flavor-related things, and I'll consider a flavor claim.

It looks like I did not miss much and yet I missed quite a lot. It is worth checking funnygurl, epignosis, and MacDougall character wikis for mentions of ships or aquatism or anything of the like, I think. I am also curious to know why Tony would like people to be character claiming.

I know something about a character. I want to know who that character is.

I don't believe that's worth the risk. Convince me otherwise.

I don’t know what the worst thing that could happen is. And 4? players have already given a name. I don’t know what kind of risk there is based on my role for town, I imagine the only risk is for mafia who I assume will be scared and lie.

[nutella]

An announcement:

A clarification has been made to Mac's role PM. This is a clarification that should have been included in his flip.

In addition, it has come to my attention that ship owners were not all notified that they own a ship. If you own a ship and were not notified, you have now been told that you do.

I sincerely apologize for both oversights.

Oh, lol.

(Clarification: the kill only works on other players that possess a ship. The kill and ship action are tied together, meaning they happen on the same night. Any watchers and/or trackers that may exist in the game will still receive results if someone attempts to target you on a night you use your ship.)

....Oh, huh. K.

So FG could have gotten all those results of people who tried to target Mac even if he used the ship N1. (I still think it's most likely that he used it N2 and killed Ted anyway. Ted did have a ship, it was added to his flip.)

[nutella]

Bad news:
Ted has a ship

Why's this bad. This makes stuff make sense. ??

[TonyStarkPrime]

Bad news:
Ted has a ship

Why's this bad. This makes stuff make sense. ??

It means I was wrong for the right reasons

[ts account]

I finished editing the image, but all it really is is a full row of red by my name, and some weird interactions between TSP/Long Con/Speedchuck.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I may have to go full JJJ for this one. I might have to be my worst self.

[Sloonei]

I’ll get out my crayons eventually. But today’s a grocery stockpiling day, and I neglected schoolwork yesterday. Priorities are elsewhere for the moment.

[Long Con]

I may have to go full JJJ for this one. I might have to be my worst self.

Whatever gets us the win, my Lord.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Are Epignosis and Long Con compatible as mafia teammates?

Epignosis' stuff

Spoiler: show

Sometimes you have to vote without giving a reason. You've got to tickle their balls a little.

LC especially needs ball tickling. His first couple of posts looked fun, but after he voted for Sloonei and got questioned for it his energy just died. Ever since then each post has been ineffectual defense without any of that town spark.

Fair enough, ball tickling is legit.

I'm not usually the high-energy star of Day 1, either alignment. Too many divas out there to compete with, I listen more than I talk.

What are your thoughts on the Sloonei/ts account drama?

I need to go over it again, my initial recollection is Much Ado About Nothing.

Plagiarist.

Banter

Spoiler: show

I'm not voting Sloonei and I'm not voting leetic.

Do better.

What about Long Con, the other person with at least two votes?

Is there a reason I should vote for LC?

Spoiler: show

LC playing scummy on purpose is not his civ MO

Disagree.

k

Spoiler: show

LC playing scummy on purpose is not his civ MO

This is just blatantly not true. It's something I have done many times in the past, mostly due to the "you-die-you-don't-win" rule we used to go by around here... when you have to survive to win, you learn to not look TOO Civvish. I still hold the lessons dear to my heart, because dying sucks either way, and if you want to survive the night, the baddies have to believe you can be lynched.

This is true.

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

There is no reason you should have to explain this to Turnip Head. TH was around during that time.

Bullshit reason to vote LC.

Spoiler: show

I am officially vetoing Long Con suspicion for the remainder of this day.

You don't have that authority.

k

Spoiler: show

I don't understand anything anyone is saying about me. Normally I love being talked about, but you guys have some dark imaginations. How does FunnyGurl even have an expectation about how I play?

Not that hard when you are the one setting the bar for expectation level.

Why aren't you voting for LC?

Dunno what this question is. A lot of these posts are bad, but they're bad in a way that is purely about Epignosis -- LC's name doesn't seem connected necessarily.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

So, leetic... I'll do this like counting cards in Blackjack. Start at 0, +value for towny, -value for wolfy.

First post (beyond guitar vid) is criticising the level of Day 1 activity in the thread. A valid criticism, we were 7 hours into Day 1, and not one player had tried to get serious. I liked this opener. +2 (2)

Second post votes Sloonei for having three posts, 100% dedicated to setup speculation. 4 hours AFTER telling the thread to get going, with still no serious responses. I liked this as well, which is why I decided to double down the vote. +2 (4)

Third post is a little sketchy. It's nice to see the genesis of the Mikey-Sloonei thing, but leetic's calling Mikey's post "weird" doesn't check out, because Mikey isn't "calling out Sloonei for setup speculation", he's criticising Sloonei's speculation with a hypothetcal designed to reveal the pointlessness of Sloonei's discussion. -1 (3)

Post 4:

Y'know, this post is a bit weird. Mikey is calling out Sloonei for setup speculation, yet when you look at the first paragraph, that's exactly what he's doing here

Care to explain?

I would like to know from you. Are you worried about me pocketing you?

Mikey's behavior is weird, last game when he was town he wasn't going after the people doing setup speculation despite the fact that there was a lot going on. And what's with this business about pocketing, like of course I'm not going to discount the possibility of someone being scum just because they townread me. Now I'm voting Mikey for this reason.

I quoted this one because Mikey's post is something I don't really understand. I don't see how that is, in any way, a response to leetic's question. It's a really weird response.

THEN leetic responds to Mikey... but in third person, like he's presenting Mikey's post to everyone else rather than responding to it. Also just weird, I don't really like that he specifically disengaged from the conversation, but it makes them look less than teammate-compatible, so there's that. Vote switch does please me, and makes sense, if Mikey's departure from previous town behaviour is accurate, it's a better reason to vote than Sloonei's speculation. +0 (3)... -1 for ts account.

Post 5 continues the meatiness that I am so far liking in leetic's posts. The "pocketing" discussion so far is just randomly generated by Mikey, and leetic's response to his pressing on the subject is the right response to the odd curveball.

Suspicion of tedxtr's early towncore feels good.

Radishes calls leetic out on the casual (too casual?) talk, leetic gives a reasonable response. Maybe Radishes is right, I wouldn't have noticed such a thing if he hadn't pointed it out. Slight minus on this post's score, a la Radish.

The tedxtr interactions, I don't agree with tedxtr's criticism of leetic's... whole game so far, I guess. +1 (4)

Post 6 leetic gives a list of reads with some explanation. Looks like genuine solving. +1 (5)

Post 7 Dragomir responded negatively to leetic's assessment that he was just sheeping Sloonei with no original thoughts. Dragomir's reaction to the accusation was mild defensive hostility, which is a -1 for him, and leetic's reply was a reasonable explanation and a prod toward fixing the apparent problem. Dragomir would have looked better if he had given original thoughts instead of just bristling at leetic's observation. +1 again for leetic (6)

Post 8 Dragomir doubles down on the idea that leetic is prodding him to "create random thoughts out of thin air so [he] could be original". Like, where do thoughts come from usually? Amazon? You have to, like, think about things to get thoughts. leetic shames Dragomir and casts a vote that I judge to be valid. +1 (7) Is leetic still in the lead for votes? He looks really town so far, where are the suspicions coming from?

leetic cont'd...

Post 9, follow-up thoughts on Dragomir's bristly rebuke of leetic's suggestion that he could share some original thoughts. 0 (7)

Post 10 leetic challenges the "growing LC wagon" because no one was defending me. If leetic were bad, then he should have no problem at all with a growing town lynch. This looks very good, and I'm fine with the TMI bias I'm obviously showing. +2 (9)

Post 11 I don't really understand what tedxtr is saying here, I don't know the term "town blocking". leetic's response I don't get either... where is the monopolization of discussion happening? 0 (9)

Post 12 to clarify to Sloonei the Post 10 position on the LC votes. Casts some suspicion on speedchuck, but I don't really like the word "opportunistic" all that much. It's a big word that's pretty easy to throw around to put suspicion on people, and it's one I've used as a wolf in fake cases before. leetic says it twice here. -1 (8)

Post 13 again with the "opportunistic", and there's an "interesting" in there to boot. Dislike. -1 (7)

Post 14 is meh. Not too solvey, definition discussion and slight prod. 0 (7)

Post 15 was directed at me, asking my opinions on Mikey-Sloonei. Pretty basic. 0 (7)

Post 16 Drago and leetic snapping at each other a little, and it looks genuine to me, in that I don't think they are w/w. Drago's criticism is valid; two votes doesn't really make for wariness of a growing wagon. The "taken out of context" thing is weak. -1 (6)

Still well in the positives, a town lean at this point on leetic.

LC, can you point to any instance of your doing this exercise with anybody in the history of ever?

And why just leetic?

Giving LC for this sort of work seems unnecessary given my understanding of the Epignosis mafioso playbook if they're teammates.

Spoiler: show

Long Con was the competing wagon to leetic. They ended up tied. Nobody sprang to save him. What does this mean? I can go either way on it.

What do you think it means?

Listen punk, I'm the one who asks questions here!

I am of two minds.
Scenario 1) The mafia team had no preference over who was lynched and was content to let two civilians face the coin flip of destiny. I've never seen a tie where things were so stagnant. Long Con's self-vote made it 4 to 4 several minutes ahead of the deadline, and then nobody else moved. Lots of people were around, but the leetic camp was entrenched on leetic, and the LC camp was entrenched on LC (and the TH/non-committed camp was farting around like losers). Mafia members have no reason to stick their necks out to determine one lynch or another when either one will do just fine.

Scenario 2) Long Con is mafia. This one comes with a couple other variables, none of which I'd bank on.

• 2.1) Long Con is mafia, his self-vote put his partners in a very awkward position wherein they need to leap to save him. Long Con is an experienced and adept mafia player. He knows better than to do that to his partners.

• 2.2) Long Con is mafia, but his team possesses some sort of mechanic which would have prevented him from being lynched yesterday (maybe they control a tiebreaker, maybe they have a member with a vote addition/subtraction power, etc.). This is baseless speculation. I cannot assert it with any confidence.

Scenario 3, I guess, is that no mafia members were present at the end of the day with the potential exception of Long Con. Why he'd endanger himself like that, I cannot say.

I have more confidence in scenario 1 than anything else.

Or Long Con is mafia and just hosted a game where a civilian threw it and he's well aware of that recency bias.

Epignosis egging on suspicion of Long Con based upon a self-vote is the world's greatest display of equine feces. I don't think that looks teammed.

~~~

Long Con's stuff not already covered

Spoiler: show

Epi is bringing an unnecessarily hostile tone to an otherwise reasonable thread, idk what that means really just an observation

I hope it doesn't mean he's a jerk.

Bringing the bantz.

Spoiler: show

LC playing scummy on purpose is not his civ MO

This is just blatantly not true. It's something I have done many times in the past, mostly due to the "you-die-you-don't-win" rule we used to go by around here... when you have to survive to win, you learn to not look TOO Civvish. I still hold the lessons dear to my heart, because dying sucks either way, and if you want to survive the night, the baddies have to believe you can be lynched.

This is true.

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

There is no reason you should have to explain this to Turnip Head. TH was around during that time.

I was explaining it to the thread, quoting Turnip Head was simply to show what I was talking about.

Somewhat forgiving response to Epi's bullshit. Similar

~~~

Conclusion

I am inclined to ignore the near-hammer vote when I consider this interaction. That occurred within the take-emergency-action time frame and I have seen mafia hammer their own anyway. Just considering the behavioral interactions, I lean away from them being teammates. Epignosis treated Long Con in a manner that I think is indicative of capitalizing on an easy target. Long Con's responses leave something to be desired, so I'll temper it a bit.

Light green

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Are Epignosis and speedchuck compatible as mafia teammates?

Epignosis' stuff

Spoiler: show

My mouse is broken.

Use your phone

Can't, I'm at work and phones aren't allowed in here

How are you posting then?

Sometimes you have to vote without giving a reason. You've got to tickle their balls a little.

LC especially needs ball tickling. His first couple of posts looked fun, but after he voted for Sloonei and got questioned for it his energy just died. Ever since then each post has been ineffectual defense without any of that town spark.

Sign of a happy marriage.

Sometimes you have to vote without giving a reason. You've got to tickle their balls a little.

LC especially needs ball tickling. His first couple of posts looked fun, but after he voted for Sloonei and got questioned for it his energy just died. Ever since then each post has been ineffectual defense without any of that town spark.

That's pretty gay. Are you coming out the closet?

Nope, still firmly in the closet. With my wife.

And me.

Banter.

Spoiler: show

Is there a reason I should vote for LC?

I don't believe so, his behavior reads more unmotivated than scummy

Why the fuck do you have four votes?

Beats me.

What's your issue with speedchuck?

He hasn't done much of note and what he has done (jokey posts, slight ts shade when the thread climate was against the former, going after LC (an easy target) is easy for scum to do.

That doesn't concern me. speedchuck has a new baby and new work from home shit. I'm not concerned.

This post is not classically Epignosian in a way that interests me and may not interest others.

Epignosis values concision. Superfluous/redundant language is to be shunned. Here, he said something twice that did not need to be said twice. "I'm not concerned". It almost reads like he is trying to convince himself of what he is saying as much as he is trying to convince leetic. I think there might be something revealing in the psychology of this duplication.

Even if you don't care about that, log it as a defense of speedchuck over essentially nothing.

Spoiler: show

Right now the way you are behaving gives me the sense you want to be in control for the EOD, and all I can say is that does not make me feel so good about you. I do not think I would hang you today, however.

What's wrong with wanting that? Civilians should want that.

Townies usually have preferred outcomes and push toward those, whereas Dragomir's tone is the inverse and seems to be guiding people away from their unfavorable outcomes. It is something either alignment could do, but here I am leaning it wolf.

In other words Dragomir doesn't care about the roof.

This is the best terminology to come out of a mafia game ever.

What is?

Epi misses a reference to his own line.

Spoiler: show

speed's only notable contribution d1 was a turnip head read

when he comes back and tries to throw reads, he didn't note turnip head

bad.

I have no idea what this means.

This is at least incidentally defensive of speedchuck in that it questions the sense of a post describing a grievance with speedchuck.

Spoiler: show

Here's a fun one: A readlist based only on people's current votes:

Good votes - MacDougall, Sloonei, Funnygurl, ts account, Epignosis
Not Good Votes - Turnip Head, Master Radishes, Long Con, TSP, Ted

What makes my vote a good one?

Here's a fun one: A readlist based only on people's current votes:

Good votes - MacDougall, Sloonei, Funnygurl, ts account, Epignosis
Not Good Votes - Turnip Head, Master Radishes, Long Con, TSP, Ted

That's...completely subjective and therefore useless.

The spread is 2/2/2/2/1/1/1. How did you decide whose vote was good and whose was bad?

The target of the vote.

And yes it's subjective, it's a readlist.

I'm not sure how anyone could sincerely vote for funnygurl after her play the latter half of today. And voting for tedxstr is just wrong.

I'm voting ted. You said my vote was a good vote. What?

I should finish reading everything before I post.

This was almost an accusation until the last post.

Spoiler: show

I should finish reading everything before I post.

I got some names mixed up from multitasking while sleep-deprived. Your vote is bad.

What about now?

This question strikes me as pointless.

~~~

speedchuck's stuff

Spoiler: show

All Role PMs have been sent! It is now D1, which will end at a majority vote or by April 2, 7pm EDT.

For somebody opposed to mechanics discussions, you're quick to point out mechanics to people like me.

This is a horrible post for Epi.

You're the second person to say this and I don't know whether either of you are serious.

This inherently implies an accusation of Epignosis is dubious enough that it is difficult to take seriously.

Spoiler: show

ok speeds here.

if not th then which person would you also wanna see die? I dont disagree with your th analysis but the wagon coming out of nowhere along with your sudden endorsement of it is sketchy

If not TH...

I'm not entirely against LC dying, but he looks better to me now that he's been at it longer. Dragomir's not a bad option, neither is Epi or TSP. Leetic... I'm not sure why the thread turned on him after he was most towny in the first few pages. I read sloonei's reasons, but I just haven't read closely enough to catch that I guess.

Spoiler: show

Here's a fun one: A readlist based only on people's current votes:

Good votes - MacDougall, Sloonei, Funnygurl, ts account, Epignosis
Not Good Votes - Turnip Head, Master Radishes, Long Con, TSP, Ted

Okay.

Spoiler: show

I should finish reading everything before I post.

I got some names mixed up from multitasking while sleep-deprived. Your vote is bad.

Oh really?

Spoiler: show

I should finish reading everything before I post.

I got some names mixed up from multitasking while sleep-deprived. Your vote is bad.

What about now?

Better.

Oh really.

~~~

Conclusion

I see minimal-to-no evidence that either of these players has made an effort to get a read on the other. They're floating through space, colliding at random on a few occasions leaving only the faintest of scuffs -- and in each such case they bandaged one another. It's all extremely safe.

Red

[nutella]

^Add onto that the observation that speedchuck has done very little this phase. He's tiptoed around the whole Epi situation. His few posts feel out of touch, like he's avoiding getting involved. And I don't mean that in a way that can be waved away with "he's busy" -- he has had plenty of opportunity to comment on what's been going on, and he has not really said anything susbstantial about Epi other than saying he's "lolcatting/obvscumming" -- easy thing for a wolf to say about a teammate whose lynch is nearly a done deal at this point, and avoiding getting himself into particular trouble with regards to the discussion surrounding said teammate.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Are Epignosis and TonyStarkPrime compatible as mafia teammates?

Epignosis' stuff

Spoiler: show

Usually much more has happened by now. This feels weird.

Right now, [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine. He is usually one of the more active people who tries to get stuff going, but right now his only contributions have been setup speculation. I'm not really seeing him trying to get any meaningful discussion going so I have to be suspicious.

I would also say the same about JaggedJimmyJay, but he's Schrödinger's player right now. I'll join you on the Sloonei vote, he has three posts and they're all about an issue that's above his pay grade as a player. In A World Asunder, town Sloonei opened Day 1 with two town reads and a vote on a suspect. [VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

This is perhaps worse than the Leetic but it’s heart is in the right place

Can you clarify this remark?

Sloonei is town. There was absolutely nothing wrong with him talking mechanically. It's not pro anything and doesn't deter the game at all. An argument could be made that it is beneficial towards the game and lets you understand what could be going on. That newfound understanding can better your reads.

Why was Sloonei being voted for mechanical talk? Ts why are you gungho about it? I can't help but agree with Sloonei that suspecting someone over mechanical is suspicious in of itself. It's lazy and never actually feels like a genuine read. Furthermore, scum use this too much to get by with their fake suspicions. Thus why it feels lazy and not genuine.

I don’t like this post from Drago. Ironically it’s seems like something I’d post but that’s irrelevant.

Tell me more

The defense hinges on what amounts to a non-existent part of the case. It seems like Drago is more focused on earning town cred

From what I've seen, Dragomir is a civilian. I don't care that he is trying to earn "town cred." Civilians SHOULD be doing that. Noble enterprise.

These exchanges are rather token and soft. I don't view them as necessarily alarming, but they're easy enough for teammates anyway.

Spoiler: show

tsp's posts have been forgettable to me but we're on the same wagon so sure i guess i can hold off on reading him for now

Tony has twelve posts. Why do they need to be memorable? You can read them in under sixty seconds. Why does this post exist?

At least incidentally defensive of Tony.

Spoiler: show

TonyStarkPrime has twelve posts and and I count only one opinion that is expressed without hedging language.

This one is a concrete accusation and almost in direct opposition to the prior defense. At twelve posts Tony is an easy target, so this is a decent look for dissociation.

Spoiler: show

I voted for funnygurl again

Why not TSP?

I voted for funnygurl again

Why not TSP?

Why do people keep asking other people why they're not voting for other other people?

I can't answer for other people.

In my mind, funnygirl and TSP are linked. The difference is that funnygirl talks more. TSP doesn't. All things being equal, I'd rather lynch TSP.

Epi drew a link between Funnygurl and Tony, presumably on the basis of the prior exchange. The connection is itself junk, but I think it's telling that he focused his aggression first upon Tony for "not talking more". Epignosis doesn't give a shit about that.

Spoiler: show

I voted for funnygurl again

Why not TSP?

Why do people keep asking other people why they're not voting for other other people?

I can't answer for other people.

In my mind, funnygirl and TSP are linked. The difference is that funnygirl talks more. TSP doesn't. All things being equal, I'd rather lynch TSP.

If two players are equally suspicious, I'd rather go after the active one, since active scum are more dangerous

Perhaps. I like when mafia talk. It gives civilians things to talk about.

This is bullshit on foremost, but even if it's accepted I'd argue it evidences a mindset hole after the previous thing. "I want to lynch Tony over Funnygurl" next to "I like when mafia talk" just tells me Epignosis doesn't have this suspicion in the first place. That's a terrible reason to lynch Tony over Funnygurl even if the connection is taken seriously.

Spoiler: show

Nutella scum

Go on.

"Sure, I guess I'll prod the guy who cast suspicion upon the voiceless ghost" -- just a post for the sake of a post

Spoiler: show

Tony voted leetic and it doesn't look like he ever took his foot off the gas.

Leetic is putting in real work here.

Okay then.

Tony voted leetic and it doesn't look like he ever took his foot off the gas.

Leetic is putting in real work here.

Okay then.

Lynch on cruise control

What?

This looks like Epignosis trying to pin Tony for inconsistency the same way he did with Sloonei. Looking for a lynch.

~~~

TonyStarkPrime's stuff not already covered

Spoiler: show

All Role PMs have been sent! It is now D1, which will end at a majority vote or by April 2, 7pm EDT.

For somebody opposed to mechanics discussions, you're quick to point out mechanics to people like me.

This is a horrible post for Epi.

could be that only I liked it

k

Spoiler: show

TonyStarkPrime has twelve posts and and I count only one opinion that is expressed without hedging language.

I’ve been taking the maybes and perhapses out of my emails today. It’s an overall problem.

Accomodating response. This is a frustrating trend across this game so far. Y'all have been so nice to people who are trying to kill you.

Spoiler: show

Okay it’s not Sloonei, LC, Drago, TS
Probably not Mac, Epi, MR, FG
Could be Leetic, Speed, Ted, TH
rainbow

Dunno what this read is, but sure.

Spoiler: show

I'm not caught up but I'm kinda surprised I would need to quantify that self-voting is scummy. Especially in a close situation like this. Does self-voting accomplish anything other than gambling for town cred?

This gets on what Epi was saying. LC was there when G-Man self voted, he knows if he’s town and dies he’s getting shredded. If LC has a negative vote it would make sense as town or scum.

Pro-Epi take.

Spoiler: show

I think we lost our momentum after the weird end to the lynch and then 24 hours of radio silence.

Something I wanted to mention was TonyStarkPrime, none of us have discussed him. He was around at the end of the lynch but most of his contributions were about the hammer. Not much actual gamesolving from TSP yet which is quite different from what I remember in GoC where he was flinging out reads with a high degree of proficiency. He was never the loudest voice in the room in that game, but he did enough for other towns to know he was there and doing his best.

Radish town
Sloonei town
Ted town
Mikey town
Mac town
Turnip borderline
Epi borderline
Whoever I missed probably borderline
Speed scum
FG scum
Nutella scum

When I am in charge, "borderline" as a read will be a capital offense.

Spoiler: show

Tony voted leetic and it doesn't look like he ever took his foot off the gas.

Leetic is putting in real work here.

Okay then.

Lynch on cruise control

What?

It's fair. I left my vote on Leetic and spent the rest of the day trying to get something out of Drago.

This dialogue went nowhere either way.

~~~

Conclusion


It's a mixed bag. Some of Epignosis' beefs were decent looks, but Tony handled them so gently that it kills much of that credit for me. I wouldn't call them incompatible.

Light orange

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This is the moment ts account has been waiting for his entire life.

[ts account]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVGdSFlU8AE ... name=large

:)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Are Epignosis and ts account compatible as mafia teammates?

Epignosis' stuff

Spoiler: show

I don't see ts as civ anymore.

I never did. That entire exchange gave me the impression that ts was inflating his thread presence. Much ado about nothing.

This looks like an accusation Epignosis has hurled at Sloonei and I eight hundred times each over the years.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: tsaccount] aubergine

k

Spoiler: show

sloonei and ts being w/w is my new favorite conspiracy theory

Sloonei wouldn't be comfortable with that. He'd try if you asked, but he's not. This is not bad Sloonei and bad TS.

This looks more like getting buddy buddy with Sloonei than something about Michelangelo.

Spoiler: show

I just...completely disagree with everything TS says. I don't know what to do about that.

I do.

Epi's implying that he means to keep the pedal to the metal against ts account.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: tsaccount] aubergine

My concerns about ts have not been addressed, but I am now having a harder time reading his utter frustration with me as anything but genuine.

My vote stands. Convince me otherwise.

Sloonei gave Epignosis a reason to call ts account a civilian, and Epignosis responded by saying "my vote stands until you give me a reason to call ts account a civilian.

I don't see much space anymore for Epignosis to be a civilian with crap like this, and I think it's a decent look for Mickey.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: tsaccount] aubergine

My concerns about ts have not been addressed, but I am now having a harder time reading his utter frustration with me as anything but genuine.

My vote stands. Convince me otherwise.

Why does your vote stand where it stands? Is this a social distancing thing?

I'll make this real simple for you. Ready?

I think ts is

Spoiler: show

mafia

This is starting to reek of opportunism.

Spoiler: show

I don't know the answer to that. What would satisfy you? I've already said I think ts is engaging in bullshit discussion about mechanics and people who talk about mechanics. ts looks nervous. Like someone who bit off more than he can chew and is trying to make himself out to be the big fish regardless.

I paid about 25% attention to this game before this day phase, and even I can say that this is absolute crap. ts account "looks nervous"? What the fuck?

Spoiler: show

All Role PMs have been sent! It is now D1, which will end at a majority vote or by April 2, 7pm EDT.

For somebody opposed to mechanics discussions, you're quick to point out mechanics to people like me.

GOTCHA

No.

Spoiler: show

Come on ts. Advocate for my lynch. Vote for me. Show everyone why I'm mafia.

Taunting and antagonism usually reserved for the good boys.

Spoiler: show

Right now the way you are behaving gives me the sense you want to be in control for the EOD, and all I can say is that does not make me feel so good about you. I do not think I would hang you today, however.

What's wrong with wanting that? Civilians should want that.

Sure, true, whatever.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall presented an idea in a recent game he was good in. He said I was bad because I refused to talk to my teammates. Mac didn't say shit about that here. There are plenty of people I've not engaged with.

What is your point with this?

I'd expect him to fling the same shit here. He's not doing it.

Is your conclusion that he is scummy for it?

I gave you some data. I want to know your interpretation of it. I know what I think and I'll comment on it directly.

Here's Epi wiggling around some pretty basic ts account questions. Doesn't look like the stuff of teammates.

Spoiler: show

In before ts account accuses me of being mean.

The Day 2 tone has shifted from accusatory to neener neener.

~~~

ts account's stuff not already covered

Spoiler: show

Dragomir- scum lean
Epignosis- null
Funnygurl555- scum lean
leetic- town
Long Con- light town
MacDougall- null
Master Radishes- null
Sloonei- scum lean
speedchuck- null
tedxtr- light town
ts account- town
TonyStarkPrime- null
Turnip Head- null

There are a few players who are likely town who simply have not posted enough for me to get a reasonable read on them- speedchuck and epignosis I would GTH town.
Ted is a problem because their reads don't make sense. Radishes sounds towny in a vacuum but this weird concept of me backtracking must have come from somewhere and I am leery of that. I am probably wrong on sloonei but I will take to task the dismantling of his case anyway. Overall I see a lot of "probably town" simply doing scummy things.

Every time I see a "null" read I snuff an angel out from my heavenly throne.

Spoiler: show

All Role PMs have been sent! It is now D1, which will end at a majority vote or by April 2, 7pm EDT.

For somebody opposed to mechanics discussions, you're quick to point out mechanics to people like me.

This is the worst post I've read today.

It's pretty terrible. I'm not sure why Mikhail didn't pursue this harder. Eventually this became "I wouldn't lynch you today though" for some damn reason. Everyone in this game is so forgiving.

Spoiler: show

Dragomir- scum
Epignosis- null
Funnygurl555- null
leetic- town
Long Con- null
MacDougall- town
Master Radishes- town lean
Sloonei- scum lean
speedchuck- null
tedxtr- town lean
ts account- town
TonyStarkPrime- null
Turnip Head- town lean

Are you fucking kidding me

Spoiler: show

Dragomir- scum
Epignosis- null
Funnygurl555- town lean
leetic- town
Long Con- scum
MacDougall- town
Master Radishes- town
Sloonei- scum lean
speedchuck- null
tedxtr- town lean
ts account- town
TonyStarkPrime- null
Turnip Head- town lean

I am feeling a lot better about my reads today. I have plenty of town to work with, that I am confident in. I still do not commit to the hard ted town read, even though it is probably my strongest town lean of the three I have. But ted is an extraordinarily good player if they are able to fake the mindset they have been showing while solving. Epignosis plays similarly to Mantichora, in my opinion, but possibly without the pedigree of the latter? Speedchuck is a curious case, because I remember liking both their tone and them as a person, yet I do not feel so emotionally attached to them here.
I would like to see more from Tony as I believe the null read there is due to their content not really impressing upon me. I find that they have made a few good points but lack any sort of followup or worldbuilding.

Spoiler: show

So, I still do not like Long Con's behavior last EOD. I also do not like the leetic wagon very much; however... I believe speedchuck is likely to be mafia just due to the tendency for a single mafia to stay off lead wagons. Epignosis or Turnip Head could both be mafia as well for this reason, but I have liked Epignosis' play much less.

Okay great so why is he fucking null all the time

Spoiler: show

I don't understand why people think effort is automatically indicative of civility.

"More than is required to defend a partner."

How much effort is required? I didn't know there were regulations in place about these things.

Are they in that imaginary book?

Instead of being snarky you could, perhaps, look at a case ted recently made defending a scum partner and arrive at the same conclusion. You are not being enjoyable to play with. Mafia are expending effort in other places than making massive towncases. It is not the level of effort that distinguishes the alignments, it is where it is spent.

And yes, it is probably in the book.

That's a bad assumption.

In this setup:

The Sit Down
Play a current Special Game here!
- Any number of players
- Any number of non-vanilla roles
- Any time length for Day/Night cycles
Moderators: Game Facilitators, Sit Down Host

So you are saying that a player who flipped PR in a game, with the potential to be role madness, was unlikely to have softed or slipped PR? Get out of here.

This is a bit more recognizable as civilian earnestness, though it's still do freaking forgiving. I am so frustrated reading this game lol.

Spoiler: show

Hi.

could u pls drop some thoughts

Could you please speak English?

Forsooth, mayest thou divine upon us thy reads?

Generic prod

Spoiler: show

I am feeling a little bit dizzy, but not physically. I know that does not make sense. I suppose I will try to share some in depth reads tomorrow, but I do not currently feel inclined to lynch either of the vegetables. However, yesterday we did not get roleclaims from either of the wagons. I suggest we change that today.
Right now I am looking at Epignosis or speedchuck to lynch.

We seem to be trending doward, hopefully to somewhere concretely south of "null".

~~~

Conclusion

I think Epignosis' posts tend to look quite nice for ts account. I wish I could say the same of Miguel's own posts. I badly want to take vengeance out and call this interaction "null yellow".

On balance though, I'll call it a net positive. Sorta.

Light green

[ts account]

I had Epignosis at null because they had zero content. Everything was one liners and snark. In fact, that Old English you call "generic prod" was simply me being snarky back. It is the same question Funnygurl asked, but in english.

[ts account]

[Sloonei]

red = bad, usually

got em

[ts account]

red = bad, usually

got em

Red = bad, as in bad partner equity.

[TonyStarkPrime]

My association charts all have red as “definitely not paired”

[nutella]

Jay uses colors the opposite way. Green is a good-looking interaction, red is a bad interaction ie they look like teammates.