Coronavirus Mafia [ENDGAME]

[juliets]

[mention]Hyena[/mention] I've read through your posts and I didn't see an explanation for what happened at EOD - the vote for Radish who was in your town core and then replacing Radish with DDL in the town core. I don't know what led you to mistrust Radishes and then trust DDL all of a sudden. If you have already explained this and I overlooked it just send me back to your ISO. At the time I chalked it up to a cultural difference in how EOD's are handled but I'm not sure about that anymore. Could you address this issue for me?

[juliets]

I'm off to get lunch and do more more chores. Back later.

[speedchuck]

Nanook also has the most reason to kill 112 probably. I mean there's a whole team making the decision but he's one of the people that might benefit from it.

Tbh I probably just kill you, idk why 112 is a bigger threat to scumNanook than you?

I meant that you have more reason to kill 112 than most others do. A lot of his last posts were about suspecting you. Not that you have more reason to kill nanook than to kill me.

[nutella]

Here is the main string of Hyena posts I didn't like. His progressions just seem random.

Speedchuck, talk to me about DDL. If you can convince me that DDL's town, I might be open to considering MR as an option, too.

[VOTE: Nanook] aubergine
I feel disgusting doing this, lol.

Honestly, I'd still go for Tony if anybody's interested.

Actually, Nanook, would you go for MR for self-preservation purposes?

Actually, Nanook, would you go for MR for self-preservation purposes?

I like the people on MR way more than I do the other wagons.

Actually, Nanook, would you go for MR for self-preservation purposes?

Obviously I’ll go anyone for self prez if it comes to it lol

Okay, cool. I'll settle for MR then.
[VOTE: Master Radish] aubergine

DDL, welcome to my towncore. You're taking MR's spot.

And here are his responses to my gripes
[mention]juliets[/mention] I see you're asking him again, this is all he's said so far which is not very satisfying lol

Actually, Nanook, would you go for MR for self-preservation purposes?

Obviously I’ll go anyone for self prez if it comes to it lol

Okay, cool. I'll settle for MR then.
[VOTE: Master Radish] aubergine

DDL, welcome to my towncore. You're taking MR's spot.

Uh ohhhhh


Nutella no likey


Im high btw

This was a huge moment, and not just because I was high lol. This was an awful look on Hyena, and made me think I had misplaced my trust in him. I think it's possible he's teammates with Nanook and was looking for a reason to justify joining the MR train to save his teammate. Why did he suddenly decide to trust DDL of all people? It made no sense. Hyena explain yourself.

DDL was going to take MR's place in my town circle since I couldn't keep MR there if were going to all vote for him. :P Since MR is still here though, DDL is back out and MR is back in.

Speedchuck, talk to me about DDL. If you can convince me that DDL's town, I might be open to considering MR as an option, too.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME this is the last thing he said about DDL before welcoming him into his towncore. I haven't looked at what speed or DDL posted in between those, but regardless I don't know how you could call that well-developed.

Oh. Yeah, it wasn't well-developed. Can't deny that, lol. I just made a decision on the fly and decided to roll with it.

Lol yeah speed wasn't convincing and ddl hardly said anything relevant, Hyena just decided to townread him somewhere in there without explaining why.

Actually, Nanook, would you go for MR for self-preservation purposes?

I like the people on MR way more than I do the other wagons.

It really makes no sense.

Yeah, basically this!

[Hyena]

@Hyena I've read through your posts and I didn't see an explanation for what happened at EOD - the vote for Radish who was in your town core and then replacing Radish with DDL in the town core. I don't know what led you to mistrust Radishes and then trust DDL all of a sudden. If you have already explained this and I overlooked it just send me back to your ISO. At the time I chalked it up to a cultural difference in how EOD's are handled but I'm not sure about that anymore. Could you address this issue for me?

It wasn't mistrust of Radish that led me to voting for Radish. It was my unwillingness to vote the other two wagons and my inability to make a wagon on the other two people I would've voted for (112 and Tony) that led to me compromising with other people. I wasn't ready to vote Nanook that day, and I was afraid to join the Sig wagon due to how fast it grew. The only other available wagon was Radish.

With regard to DDL, it was a spontaneous decision. Radish was in my towncore at that point, but if I lynched him, that would mean I'd be losing someone in my towncore. I personally don't like when that happens, so I wanted to fill in the space that Radish would leave with someone else. Thus, I briefly looked at DDL, went with my gut, and chose him over, for example, Nanook, Sig, and MP7, most of whom I suspected a little bit even if I wasn't voting them. Does that make more sense?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Keep in mind we need a consensus suspect to agree to lynch on top of the normal lynch.

[nutella]

I think my main problem is how you were so willing to vote for someone who was in your towncore rather than try to get a better wagon going. MR was one of your top townreads from how I saw it, and you decided to throw that away on a whim and trust DDL instead whom you had previously suspected I think. Like I understand the words you're saying in your explanation but I don't understand the sentiment/motivation behind it.

[nutella]

Keep in mind we need a consensus suspect to agree to lynch on top of the normal lynch.

Yeah. Other people should make lists like mine or something to indicate who is the best candidate for that. I'm guessing Wilgy will be a fine choice for most but let's see if anyone else arises as a good choice.

[Jackofhearts2005]

As much as lynching Wilgy again for not playing sucks, Idk what to do with him otherwise. He's got 4 posts.

It frustrates me every time because he's an excellent mafia player when he gives a damn.

[Hyena]

Alright, I'll break this down for you Nutella,

Speedchuck, talk to me about DDL. If you can convince me that DDL's town, I might be open to considering MR as an option, too.

At this point, my wagon on 112 failed, and nobody was going for Tony in spite of me saying I'm open to wagoning him. Thus, the three options I had are Nanook, Sig, and Radish. I had already decided at this point that I didn't want to vote Sig after Tony increased Sig's votecount to four. Mind you, Sig's wagon grew wildly after Speedchuck(?) pointed out the false dichotomy Sig made between you and MP7 where he said one or the other HAD to be wolf. That made me feel uncomfortable.

[VOTE: Nanook] aubergine
I feel disgusting doing this, lol.

In the previous post, my desire to keep Nanook alive was winning out over my desire to keep my town core intact. Here, things turn around because of indecisiveness.

Honestly, I'd still go for Tony if anybody's interested.

Again, I put out an offer to wagon Tony over the other three. Going for Tony would, 1.) keep my town circle intact, 2.) keep Nanook alive for another day, and even better, 3.) get rid of someone that I was actually suspecting to be mafia.

Actually, Nanook, would you go for MR for self-preservation purposes?

This post came very shortly after the last. Basically, I came to the conclusion again that #3 would probably not happen and that I'd only be able to achieve one of #1 and #2 -- back at square one for me. However, just me going for MR would not be enough to save Nanook, so I ask him to come along with me since I was trying to save him anyway. As for why I choose Nanook over my town core? It was just how I was feeling at that moment. Nanook started winning out again over my town core.

Actually, Nanook, would you go for MR for self-preservation purposes?

I like the people on MR way more than I do the other wagons.

There is nothing false here. I strongly townread Speed, and even though I had a null on DDL, I didn't suspect him as heavily as I did, say, MP7 or Nanook. This is also why I didn't choose Nanook to be in my towncore over DDL. :P

[Hyena]

I think my main problem is how you were so willing to vote for someone who was in your towncore rather than try to get a better wagon going. MR was one of your top townreads from how I saw it, and you decided to throw that away on a whim and trust DDL instead whom you had previously suspected I think. Like I understand the words you're saying in your explanation but I don't understand the sentiment/motivation behind it.

Did you see how successful I was getting a 112 wagon going? :P

[nutella]

Yeah, when he is allowed to make it to later game he can do very well but as of now he feels like dead weight If anyone has better ideas I'm listening though.

(E.g. if enough people agree on a more substantial candidate like nanook or hyena that would be fun)

[nutella]

Okay, thanks Hyena. I think a major sticking point for me is the fourth section there -- Nanook winning out over your towncore. Can you elaborate any more on that? If he was "winning out" over your towncore does that not make him your towncore??

[Hyena]

Like, the only wagon that I've started that gained any bit of traction was the one on Long Con, which everybody apparently saw as a joke wagon, even though I was serious about it at the time. :P

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I think he just likes playing with me and prioritized that over TRs.

[nutella]

I just don't see why your desire not to lynch Nanook outweighed your desire not to lynch in your towncore. You kept saying you weren't "ready" for Nanook to die. What does that mean exactly and what made him a separate thing from your towncore concept?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

That’s how I read it anyways

[nutella]

I think he just likes playing with me and prioritized that over TRs.

If it's just that, or some combination of that and giving you another phase to prove yourself, I guess I can understand that but I still find it sketchy

[nutella]

Like, if I count player A as being in my towncore/top town reads and player B as someone who I enjoy playing with and/or would like to see more from to get a read on, I think I always would rather lynch player B than player A.

[Hyena]

Okay, thanks Hyena. I think a major sticking point for me is the fourth section there -- Nanook winning out over your towncore. Can you elaborate any more on that? If he was "winning out" over your towncore does that not make him your towncore??

The best way I can explain how I feel about Nanook is... I -want- him to be town. Basically like how I wanted Elephant to be town in the Inception game and how I almost pushed for my own lynch over his, even though he ended up being scum. It doesn't mean that Nanook necessarily is, and I don't feel like he's left his scum range, but, like, I just didn't want to lynch him yet. Not at that point in time. There was absolutely no logic in my decision. It was just straight up emotion and gut.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I think he just likes playing with me and prioritized that over TRs.

If it's just that, or some combination of that and giving you another phase to prove yourself, I guess I can understand that but I still find it sketchy

It’s literally the same as “I haven’t played with MP in a long time so I’m not TKing him D1.”

[nutella]

You know, unless player B is my scumbuddy.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Why is what you would do a valid way to read hyena?

[nutella]

Okay, thanks Hyena. I think a major sticking point for me is the fourth section there -- Nanook winning out over your towncore. Can you elaborate any more on that? If he was "winning out" over your towncore does that not make him your towncore??

The best way I can explain how I feel about Nanook is... I -want- him to be town. Basically like how I wanted Elephant to be town in the Inception game and how I almost pushed for my own lynch over his, even though he ended up being scum. It doesn't mean that Nanook necessarily is, and I don't feel like he's left his scum range, but, like, I just didn't want to lynch him yet. Not at that point in time. There was absolutely no logic in my decision. It was just straight up emotion and gut.

Ok

[Hyena]

I think he just likes playing with me and prioritized that over TRs.

If it's just that, or some combination of that and giving you another phase to prove yourself, I guess I can understand that but I still find it sketchy

It’s literally the same as “I haven’t played with MP in a long time so I’m not TKing him D1.”

Exactly.

[Hyena]

Like, don't get me wrong. If I thought Nanook, like, scumslipped hard somewhere in D1, I would've had no guilt voting him, because like, 'lol, he's scum', but what I had on him was NOT a strong scumread. It was suspicion, mostly stemming from gut.

[nutella]

Why is what you would do a valid way to read hyena?

I'm just trying to make sense of it. I can't really argue against "it was just a gut-based/emotional snap decision" as I've probably done things like that before that I couldn't really defend logically either, so maybe my "what I would do" isn't even sound. I'm trying to see it his way but I'm missing whatever emotional component led him to spontaneously follow DDL. I can see a world in which he made that decision from a townie perspective. I can also see a world in which he is scum.

[Hyena]

Why is what you would do a valid way to read hyena?

I'm just trying to make sense of it. I can't really argue against "it was just a gut-based/emotional snap decision" as I've probably done things like that before that I couldn't really defend logically either, so maybe my "what I would do" isn't even sound. I'm trying to see it his way but I'm missing whatever emotional component led him to spontaneously follow DDL. I can see a world in which he made that decision from a townie perspective. I can also see a world in which he is scum.

The other thing you have to remember is that there was only two hours left before day ended. I didn't have much more time to get interactions in with DDL and others to judge how I really feel about them. I basically made the decision off of the info I had at that very moment.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Reading someone based off “I would do X but they did Y” is very rarely an accurate or good way to read someone. Especially someone that’s as markedly different as hyena is from nutella.

It’s lazy at best and a cheap way to build a fake case if you’re mafia.

[nutella]

Reading someone based off “I would do X but they did Y” is very rarely an accurate or good way to read someone. Especially someone that’s as markedly different as hyena is from nutella.

It’s lazy at best and a cheap way to build a fake case if you’re mafia.

You are willfully misinterpreting the way I am approaching this.

I never said that he is bad because he did something I wouldn't have done. I just posed that as a way of asking and trying to think about why he might have done it.

[nutella]

Also I don't think Hyena and I are that different? I feel a kinship with his style in general

[nutella]

You seem rather quick to attack me for trying to puzzle this out though

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Reading someone based off “I would do X but they did Y” is very rarely an accurate or good way to read someone. Especially someone that’s as markedly different as hyena is from nutella.

It’s lazy at best and a cheap way to build a fake case if you’re mafia.

You are willfully misinterpreting the way I am approaching this.

I never said that he is bad because he did something I wouldn't have done. I just posed that as a way of asking and trying to think about why he might have done it.

WOW the irony and/or hypocrisy, ok

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’m going back to ignoring this now, that’s what I get for trying to engage

[nutella]

Reading someone based off “I would do X but they did Y” is very rarely an accurate or good way to read someone. Especially someone that’s as markedly different as hyena is from nutella.

It’s lazy at best and a cheap way to build a fake case if you’re mafia.

You are willfully misinterpreting the way I am approaching this.

I never said that he is bad because he did something I wouldn't have done. I just posed that as a way of asking and trying to think about why he might have done it.

WOW the irony and/or hypocrisy, ok

Sorry, what?

I don't follow.

I feel like you're being jumpy at the oddest things lol.

[nutella]

Are you calling me a hypocrite for saying you read my intentions incorrectly?

I shouldn't have assumed it was willful misinterpretation, I apologize for that word choice, but otherwise there is some severe miscommunication here.

[nutella]

Stepping back from the confrontation and commenting on it externally: In games I've played with Nanook where we were both town, I don't think we butted heads nearly this much; in fact I think I often understood his perspective better than others did when he was under scrutiny. Here we've had multiple arguments/miscommunications/disagreements about our approaches to the game (as they have applied specifically in this game) and he's been really eager to shit on me for petty differences in perspective. Not the kind of interactions I'd personally expect to have with a town Nanook. I think he is extra touchy on the details because he is scum and I'm catching on.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Let's just lynch Nanook and Nutella and call it a day.

[nutella]

Let's just lynch Nanook and Nutella and call it a day.

Why do you still want to lynch me lol

[Jackofhearts2005]

TonyStarkPrime - townlean
MPlus7 - townlean
speedchuck - townlean
Hyena - townlean
Master Radishes - a smidge north of null
Dragon D. Luffy - null
juliets - null and why is her tone always so good god damn I'm borderline jealous and I have a pretty consistent tone across alignments
Dr. Wilgy - null but also he's always getting POEd at some point
sloonei - a smidge south of null cause he hasn't done anything as two slots lolol
Long Con - scumlean
nutella - scumlean
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - scumlean

[Jackofhearts2005]

Let's just lynch Nanook and Nutella and call it a day.

Why do you still want to lynch me lol

Desperation.

[nutella]

Actually though, you are either faking a scumlean on me because you're scum, or your magic nutellameter is broken again. You haven't elaborated on your read of me at all, can you do that? And also explain your scumlean of LC while you're at it.

[nutella]

[mention]juliets[/mention] Talk about your current feelings on Nanook please and thank you.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Actually though, you are either faking a scumlean on me because you're scum, or your magic nutellameter is broken again. You haven't elaborated on your read of me at all, can you do that? And also explain your scumlean of LC while you're at it.

It's gut and fear over misreading you all game.

Like read half a game -> misread you -> start new game and read 2/3rds of it -> scumread you for fear of being fooled again.

But seriously I'm feeling bad vibes from your pushes. I don't see anything that looks dishonestly though, which is your tell. Idk. I really don't know what to do with you. I ought to just leave you alone and let the read come at its own pace.

[nutella]

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] Talk please and thank you.

[nutella]

Actually though, you are either faking a scumlean on me because you're scum, or your magic nutellameter is broken again. You haven't elaborated on your read of me at all, can you do that? And also explain your scumlean of LC while you're at it.

It's gut and fear over misreading you all game.

Like read half a game -> misread you -> start new game and read 2/3rds of it -> scumread you for fear of being fooled again.

But seriously I'm feeling bad vibes from your pushes. I don't see anything that looks dishonestly though, which is your tell. Idk. I really don't know what to do with you. I ought to just leave you alone and let the read come at its own pace.

Lol ok.

What specifically about my "pushes" has felt bad? You seemed to agree with me at least partially on Nanook. What about the Hyena stuff?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Stepping back from the confrontation and commenting on it externally: In games I've played with Nanook where we were both town, I don't think we butted heads nearly this much; in fact I think I often understood his perspective better than others did when he was under scrutiny. Here we've had multiple arguments/miscommunications/disagreements about our approaches to the game (as they have applied specifically in this game) and he's been really eager to shit on me for petty differences in perspective. Not the kind of interactions I'd personally expect to have with a town Nanook. I think he is extra touchy on the details because he is scum and I'm catching on.

Massive eye roll. 3/4 of your “case” is that I’m lying about mafia philosophy combined with completely twisting what I said into something else.

So yes I’m pretty frustrated with you.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Remember when I was good at reading LC? That was when I thought passive LC was baddie LC.

I do really need him to do more pushing [mention]Long Con[/mention]

Even my Nanook read is pretty gut based. And my townleans area almost all based on one thing for each player. The exception is Speedchuck, who I am nodding along with everything he's said. He's never been mafia when I felt that way. He's been antitown neutral tho. Regardless, if he's town, he'll manage to defend wolves and look like the perfectly fitting puzzle piece and then I'll turn the piece upside down and townread him.

[nutella]

Stepping back from the confrontation and commenting on it externally: In games I've played with Nanook where we were both town, I don't think we butted heads nearly this much; in fact I think I often understood his perspective better than others did when he was under scrutiny. Here we've had multiple arguments/miscommunications/disagreements about our approaches to the game (as they have applied specifically in this game) and he's been really eager to shit on me for petty differences in perspective. Not the kind of interactions I'd personally expect to have with a town Nanook. I think he is extra touchy on the details because he is scum and I'm catching on.

Massive eye roll. 3/4 of your “case” is that I’m lying about mafia philosophy combined with completely twisting what I said into something else.

So yes I’m pretty frustrated with you.

I don't think you're lying. I just haven't understood where you were coming from, and in some cases felt you were misinterpreting something. I'm not trying to twist anything.

And I suspected you before all this stuff anyway.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Actually though, you are either faking a scumlean on me because you're scum, or your magic nutellameter is broken again. You haven't elaborated on your read of me at all, can you do that? And also explain your scumlean of LC while you're at it.

It's gut and fear over misreading you all game.

Like read half a game -> misread you -> start new game and read 2/3rds of it -> scumread you for fear of being fooled again.

But seriously I'm feeling bad vibes from your pushes. I don't see anything that looks dishonestly though, which is your tell. Idk. I really don't know what to do with you. I ought to just leave you alone and let the read come at its own pace.

Lol ok.

What specifically about my "pushes" has felt bad? You seemed to agree with me at least partially on Nanook. What about the Hyena stuff?

Nothing! Nothing specific. That's why I'm not actually lynching you today. Just like a tingling sensation. Like spider sense if someone is trying to hit you with a pie but not murder you. I'd understand if someone thought that was a fake thing to say but idgaf.

I agree with you on Nanook. I feel like talking to a player I have caught always always always makes them look worse and me look better. And a lot of the time, talking to a player I incorrectly suspect leads to me turning around my read. I get that Nanook has a different play style than some folks but I feel like I have a decent idea of how he plays (like just instinctively knowing that he'd fake a red peek) and I feel like I'd have picked up on the idea that he doesn't talk to his scumreads. That's such a weird play quirk.

I've kinda skimmed your Hyena stuff because he feels pure and I love his avatar and I want him to be town. I haven't personally felt pinged by anything he says. Disclaimer: I've only seen town Hyena.