Willow [Endgame]

[DharmaHelper]

Just kidding, voted Llama ;P

Explanation requested.

We can change our votes and I wanted to give the appearance of participation.

That's the best answer anyone has given to anything this game. Thank you. (I do hope you decide to change it though. You and I are on the same side this time.)

I'll change it so hard.

[bea]

And I'm caught up. That goes much faster when one has their full mental capabilities.

I get that seemed weird things to pull fz, I was trying to comment as I was reading along, but I was fail. I miss the k-site multi-quote. It's ever so handy when catching up.

Reading back through, it does kinda seem like there was a last minute push to save SVS, I'm just not sure what to make of it. I can see a scenario where svs is bad and her team tried to save her. I can also see a scenario where SVS is good, and the "save" is a nice frame for today's vote. Then there's two civs down with little effort.

[thellama73]

And I'm caught up. That goes much faster when one has their full mental capabilities.

I get that seemed weird things to pull fz, I was trying to comment as I was reading along, but I was fail. I miss the k-site multi-quote. It's ever so handy when catching up.

Reading back through, it does kinda seem like there was a last minute push to save SVS, I'm just not sure what to make of it. I can see a scenario where svs is bad and her team tried to save her. I can also see a scenario where SVS is good, and the "save" is a nice frame for today's vote. Then there's two civs down with little effort.

So who are you planning to vote for?

As for me, I'm voting SVS.

[DharmaHelper]

Out of the ones pushing the SVS agenda TH sticks out most to me.

[DharmaHelper]

Rest in piggiedom, BWT.

Of the Dom voters, SVS is still the one I'm looking at for today. I think the pigging of BWT might have been an attempt by the baddies to try and "prove" that the push to vote Dom wasn't the baddies' doing. 5 Dom voters, only 3 baddie roles. Obviously at least a couple of the Dom voters were civs. But BWT was an odd choice to turn into a pig unless the baddies were hoping to make some sort of point by choosing him. I'm surprised they didn't choose someone more random.

SVS, where do you think the baddies might have placed their votes yesterday? You said yesterday that you would read back to see what you had missed. Are you suspicious of anyone based on what you read?

I'm not sure what to make of the rest of the Dom voters yet, I feel the situation with them will become clearer based on what happens today. I appreciated FZ changing her mind about me; she had some questions about my gameplay, we talked it out and she changed her opinion. That seemed genuine to me. Flip flopping is not an inherently baddie trait. I'll be keeping an eye on her, but I came out of that conversation feeling better about her.

In particular this post seems to be laying a lot of ground work.

[Turnip Head]

Out of the ones pushing the SVS agenda TH sticks out most to me.

I'm not pushing any agenda. I'm suspicious of SVS, I've been suspicious of her all game, and I've done the best I can to talk through that suspicion with her. I haven't tried to influence anyone else's opinion. It is not my fault that no one else brought up any of their own suspects today.

I'm not seeing SVS's civvie game. She would be accusing me more, i think, if she were a civvie, or she would at least try to get me to stop derailing the thread with suspicion against her if she was a civvie, because she would want to put the focus on players she thinks are baddies. But I think she knows I'm a civ.

I think she's a baddie, so I hope she gets lynched.

Are you suspicious of me because I'm suspicious of SVS? Do you think my suspicion of her is disingenuous?

[Turnip Head]

And I'm caught up. That goes much faster when one has their full mental capabilities.

I get that seemed weird things to pull fz, I was trying to comment as I was reading along, but I was fail. I miss the k-site multi-quote. It's ever so handy when catching up.

Reading back through, it does kinda seem like there was a last minute push to save SVS, I'm just not sure what to make of it. I can see a scenario where svs is bad and her team tried to save her. I can also see a scenario where SVS is good, and the "save" is a nice frame for today's vote. Then there's two civs down with little effort.

My suspicion of SVS has very little to do with whether or not she was saved yesterday. I have a gut feeling that she's bad: if I'm right, I'll be looking more closely at people who might have tried to save her. But I'm not pushing that connection, I've tried to keep my thoughts about SVS focused solely on HER behavior this game.

I'm not sure if you're able to read SVS, bea, but I think you might be able to. Do you think we're seeing SVS's civvie game? Do you think we're seeing her baddie game?

[Sorsha]

I almost typed the whole word too. [/ot]

you meant to say fudge, right?

Yes ma'am.

TH, the main thing I focused on with Dom was him saying that S~V~S had been spending more time on people she thought were bad than people who were civs (paraphrasing here). I referred to it as "outright lying" because it was, well, outright lying. S~V~S had spent so much time on Andrew, that most of the rest of her posts were her trying to defend herself. I know it's not much, but it was a Day 1 vote, and it was what felt strongest to me at the time. I was clearly wrong, but there's not a whole lot I can do to change it now. And I stand by my justification for it at the time.

So sorry, but not everyone who voted for Dom did so for the reason you claimed. I just proved otherwise. I will say that I felt FZ, Kate, and Sorsha gave the weakest reasons for voting for him. So I can safely rule out giving them a vote tonight.

I didn't even vote for Dom

Why did you vote for TH (was it him you voted for)? He didn't have any other votes and you had to know that vote would just go to waste. If you didn't mind Dom getting the votes, why not just vote him instead? Could it be that you knew he wasn't a baddie and wanted to look better later on?

If you know that I said "I don't mind Dom getting the votes" then you should know my explanation for voting TH.... It was in the same post.

[DharmaHelper]

Out of the ones pushing the SVS agenda TH sticks out most to me.

I'm not pushing any agenda. I'm suspicious of SVS, I've been suspicious of her all game, and I've done the best I can to talk through that suspicion with her. I haven't tried to influence anyone else's opinion. It is not my fault that no one else brought up any of their own suspects today.

I'm not seeing SVS's civvie game. She would be accusing me more, i think, if she were a civvie, or she would at least try to get me to stop derailing the thread with suspicion against her if she was a civvie, because she would want to put the focus on players she thinks are baddies. But I think she knows I'm a civ.

I think she's a baddie, so I hope she gets lynched.

Are you suspicious of me because I'm suspicious of SVS? Do you think my suspicion of her is disingenuous?

I think it'd be easy enough for baddies to use SVS as a scapegoat.

[FZ.]

I think TH has been making some good points this day, and for me, what has changed is that while it was too early to say she was focusing on civvies last day, SVS is still not really bringing anything to the table, and she's also being very gentle with TH, so I'm actually considering voting for her. I still have doubts but it's an option

I didn't even vote for Dom

Why did you vote for TH (was it him you voted for)? He didn't have any other votes and you had to know that vote would just go to waste. If you didn't mind Dom getting the votes, why not just vote him instead? Could it be that you knew he wasn't a baddie and wanted to look better later on?

If you know that I said "I don't mind Dom getting the votes" then you should know my explanation for voting TH.... It was in the same post.

I know why you said you voted for TH, it just didn't make sense to me. It was between two people for the lynch at that point: SVS and Dom. You thought SVS was a civvie and said you didn't mind Dom getting the votes. There was still a chance SVS could have gotten more votes, so if you thought she should be saved, and didn't think Dom was a bad lynch, logic says you should have voted him to seal the lynch.
So I'm wondering if maybe you didn't care who got lynched, but still wanted to make yourself look better when one of them got lynched and came out a civvie. You wouldn't be under the public's eye

[thellama73]

I know why you said you voted for TH, it just didn't make sense to me. It was between two people for the lynch at that point: SVS and Dom. You thought SVS was a civvie and said you didn't mind Dom getting the votes. There was still a chance SVS could have gotten more votes, so if you thought she should be saved, and didn't think Dom was a bad lynch, logic says you should have voted him to seal the lynch.
So I'm wondering if maybe you didn't care who got lynched, but still wanted to make yourself look better when one of them got lynched and came out a civvie. You wouldn't be under the public's eye

That's actually a really good point. Not wanting to get your hands dirty on a lynch where you know what the outcome will be is something I see exceptionally frequently with baddies. Worth keeping an eye on her.

[Kate]

I spent the day in court and just read though kinda fast. I would not and did not try to save svs. I'm a better player than that even my head is half in a game. I think bea alluded to this earlier. Not me specifically but anyone. And I don't think svs would let or encourage her team to do so.

I'm not sure why llama is so hot on her trail but it seems like a personal vendetta.

I'm voting llama or th (just because you seem bad and I don't think you should have gotten the acorns).

For now at least it's llama.

[thellama73]

I'm not sure why llama is so hot on her trail but it seems like a personal vendetta.

I can assure you it's not a personal vendetta. I started out this game specifically trying to avoid that, since we always end up going after each other. However, my intuition, plus the way the votes fell yesterday leads me to believe strongly that she is bad. Please don't make the mistake of saving her twice.

[Turnip Head]

All I've done this game is express my suspicions. You can disagree with my suspicions, but I don't see how expressing them makes me a baddie. It makes me a civ who is actually trying.

[Sorsha]

Just because there are two front runners for a lynch doesn't mean I have to vote for one.

I don't know if SVS is civvie or not... All I have seen is her being under the knife from the very start of the game, I don't see the case on her, I don't find her suspicious so I'm not voting for her. And the suspicion on Dom came up pretty close to the end of the day and (IMO) what he was accused of doing was the same thing I saw from TH..... (jumping on the suspicion of SVS). The fact that Dom garnered the suspicion for it and not TH justified my suspicion of TH to myself, so I voted him... And will do so again today.

Linki- that's how I'm seeing it too kate

[Turnip Head]

Why are you planning to vote for me Sorsha? Because I expressed suspicion of SVS?

[DharmaHelper]

All I've done this game is express my suspicions. You can disagree with my suspicions, but I don't see how expressing them makes me a baddie. It makes me a civ who is actually trying.

You're as free to express your suspicions as I am to express my suspicions of your intentions.

[Sorsha]

Why are you planning to vote for me Sorsha? Because I expressed suspicion of SVS?

Phrase it however you like. I am voting for you for the same reason I voted you yesterday... A vote you never even bother to address btw

[Turnip Head]

What did you want me to say about it?

[FZ.]

Isn't it funny that more than a few people are finding TH and llama suspicious for going so strongly after SVS, yet she doesn't? Hmm, I wonder what to make of that. Maybe, that they are actually right?

Then, there's INH who voted SVS and she said she was suspicious of them. Looks a little like they might be working together and trying to distance themselves.

Who did Metalmarsh say he was suspicious of and who did he vote for yesterday?

[Turnip Head]

To DH, Kate, Sorsha et al. :

Take a step back from your interpretation of my intentions. If I'm a civ who is suspicious of SVS, how would you expect me to play?

[thellama73]

I'm not getting the attack on TH either, unless it is another attempt to save SVS. He has been nothing but logical and straightforward this game.

[FZ.]

I'd be happy if someone answered me. Do people here tend to throw their scum buddies under the bus or do they tend to save them even when when it puts them at risk?

[thellama73]

I'd be happy if someone answered me. Do people here tend to throw their scum buddies under the bus or do they tend to save them even when when it puts them at risk?

We see plenty of both.

[Marmot]

All I've done this game is express my suspicions. You can disagree with my suspicions, but I don't see how expressing them makes me a baddie. It makes me a civ who is actually trying.

Anything that makes a civ makes a very good baddie.

[FZ.]

I'd be happy if someone answered me. Do people here tend to throw their scum buddies under the bus or do they tend to save them even when when it puts them at risk?

We see plenty of both.

Thanks, I just wonder, if SVS is really the baddie you believe her to be, wouldn't one of her buddies vote for her by now since she's getting so much heat?

[Marmot]

Isn't it funny that more than a few people are finding TH and llama suspicious for going so strongly after SVS, yet she doesn't? Hmm, I wonder what to make of that. Maybe, that they are actually right?

Then, there's INH who voted SVS and she said she was suspicious of them. Looks a little like they might be working together and trying to distance themselves.

Who did Metalmarsh say he was suspicious of and who did he vote for yesterday?

I self-voted yesterday, didn't have time to read the thread before the poll ended. To be honest, I probably would have voted for dom as well if I had a little more time to read.

[Turnip Head]

All I've done this game is express my suspicions. You can disagree with my suspicions, but I don't see how expressing them makes me a baddie. It makes me a civ who is actually trying.

Anything that makes a civ makes a very good baddie.

Well then how am I supposed to play?

Am I just supposed to keep my mouth shut?

[thellama73]

I'd be happy if someone answered me. Do people here tend to throw their scum buddies under the bus or do they tend to save them even when when it puts them at risk?

We see plenty of both.

Thanks, I just wonder, if SVS is really the baddie you believe her to be, wouldn't one of her buddies vote for her by now since she's getting so much heat?

I thought the save yesterday was a dumb move. I can only assume that they view her role as so valuable that they were unwilling to lose it so early.

[Marmot]

I'd be happy if someone answered me. Do people here tend to throw their scum buddies under the bus or do they tend to save them even when when it puts them at risk?

We see plenty of both.

Thanks, I just wonder, if SVS is really the baddie you believe her to be, wouldn't one of her buddies vote for her by now since she's getting so much heat?

Probably, if she is bad.

Then again, the votes are piling on llama and TH instead, the two instigators. I'm trying to figure out if that would make SVS more or less bad.

[S~V~S]

I'd be happy if someone answered me. Do people here tend to throw their scum buddies under the bus or do they tend to save them even when when it puts them at risk?

A little of both, it depends on the person. llama, for instance, or MP, distances HARD, throws them under the bus sometimes before the bus is even in the terminal, lol. Some others have problems doing that to teammates until it is down to the wire.

I just got home, gotta catch up.

Linki @ Llama~ there was no save, except from people who think I might not be bad for the ridiculous reason you have outlined.

Linki @MM~ I am not so sure Llama or TH are bad, but I will vote for them if i have to save again.

[Marmot]

All I've done this game is express my suspicions. You can disagree with my suspicions, but I don't see how expressing them makes me a baddie. It makes me a civ who is actually trying.

Anything that makes a civ makes a very good baddie.

Well then how am I supposed to play?

Am I just supposed to keep my mouth shut?

Off-topic - I do wonder why so many people on this site like to state and drop hints that they are civvie. I just find it a little redundant sometimes. Everyone's supposed to be acting civvie (almost always). Anyway, that's why I said that.

Back on task. - Just do whatever the heck you want and I'll vote you if I don't like it.

[thellama73]

A little of both, it depends on the person. llama, for instance, or MP, distances HARD, throws them under the bus sometimes before the bus is even in the terminal, lol. Some others have problems doing that to teammates until it is down to the wire.

This is a sidebar and not really relevant to the current game, but you always assert this about me, and it is not really true. I think I did it once in a game you hosted so I have that reputation with you, but honestly it is pretty rare for me to throw teammates under the bus.

Carry on.

[Turnip Head]

If she's not bad, you can lynch me next.

I made this post on Day 1. The offer still stands.

If SVS is a civ, the baddies should have been chomping at the bit to take me up on it.

But if she's bad I'm sure they'd much rather lynch me first, hmmm?

[Turnip Head]

You guys can lynch me if you want, I'm tired of defending the way I play mafia. I'm an active involved player who gets lynched simply for talking. I won't make that mistake anymore.

[S~V~S]

Out of the ones pushing the SVS agenda TH sticks out most to me.

I'm not pushing any agenda. I'm suspicious of SVS, I've been suspicious of her all game, and I've done the best I can to talk through that suspicion with her. I haven't tried to influence anyone else's opinion. It is not my fault that no one else brought up any of their own suspects today.

I'm not seeing SVS's civvie game. She would be accusing me more, i think, if she were a civvie, or she would at least try to get me to stop derailing the thread with suspicion against her if she was a civvie, because she would want to put the focus on players she thinks are baddies. But I think she knows I'm a civ.

I think she's a baddie, so I hope she gets lynched.

Are you suspicious of me because I'm suspicious of SVS? Do you think my suspicion of her is disingenuous?

Why would I be accusing you more? The way you are, i have a role in mind for you, and I don't think Llama is bad based on his full frontal thread association with you, I don't think he would do that if bad, although i have seen him do it with a civ in another game, but then so did you, and i don't think you would fall for it if he was bad.

Are you getting my drift here? That is why I am being "gentle" with you, as I believe FZ said.

Linki @ Llama~ In Grimm, where we were teammates, you threw our teammate under the bus "just in case" since he was low posting. That is what I was thinking of, although I really did not understand why you kept suspecting your CIV recruit in AG, tbh.

[thellama73]

If she's not bad, you can lynch me next.

I made this post on Day 1. The offer still stands.

If SVS is a civ, the baddies should have been chomping at the bit to take me up on it.

But if she's bad I'm sure they'd much rather lynch me first, hmmm?

I think you'll find the expression is "champing at the bit."

[S~V~S]

Also Linki @TH~ no, not becasue you are talking, becasue you are manufacturing a case to fit your belief. Like i said, i have a role in mind for you, but will vote you to save myself.

[FZ.]

If she's not bad, you can lynch me next.

I made this post on Day 1. The offer still stands.

If SVS is a civ, the baddies should have been chomping at the bit to take me up on it.

But if she's bad I'm sure they'd much rather lynch me first, hmmm?

Let's say you're right. Two voted for you: Sorsha and DH. Which one is more suspicious to you?

Linki @ TH, you will continue to be this way because you can't help yourself. Believe me I've tried

[thellama73]

I am getting nervous about how few people have voted. If there is a sudden rush to save SVS and I end up dying, I hope the rest of you will realize why.

[Turnip Head]

Also Linki @TH~ no, not becasue you are talking, becasue you are manufacturing a case to fit your belief. Like i said, i have a role in mind for you, but will vote you to save myself.

I manufactured nothing. But that's okay SVS, I know you're bad and I know you have to say these things even if you don't believe it. You win this round

[Marmot]

I am getting nervous about how few people have voted. If there is a sudden rush to save SVS and I end up dying, I hope the rest of you will realize why.

Why are you afraid that you will be the target?

[FZ.]

At this point, I think both TH and SVS are civvies, so I don't feel comfortable voting for either. I'm wondering about Insertaname

Linki@ llama and TH, you are confusing me, lol. How sure are you that she's a baddie. I can't pretend to know how she plays as good as you do. I'm just not getting enough baddie vibe. But maybe I'm being blind

[thellama73]

I am getting nervous about how few people have voted. If there is a sudden rush to save SVS and I end up dying, I hope the rest of you will realize why.

Why are you afraid that you will be the target?

Because I have been leading the charge against her, and because I so frequently am the target.

[Marmot]

Anyway, I'm voting llama. I don't feel comfortable on either SVS or TH, and there aren't really any other options at the moment.

[thellama73]

Linki@ llama and TH, you are confusing me, lol. How sure are you that she's a baddie. I can't pretend to know how she plays as good as you do. I'm just not getting enough baddie vibe. But maybe I'm being blind

Vote your conscience, but I am pretty sure I can read her at this point.

[thellama73]

Why are you afraid that you will be the target?

Anyway, I'm voting llama.

That's why.

[S~V~S]

Linki@ llama and TH, you are confusing me, lol. How sure are you that she's a baddie. I can't pretend to know how she plays as good as you do. I'm just not getting enough baddie vibe. But maybe I'm being blind

Vote your conscience, but I am pretty sure I can read her at this point.

No you can't. At all, lol.

OK, of the two of you, I will vote llama, becasue tbh, I feel better about TH than about you. Although his arguments against me are better organized, and he is more dangerous to me, i think.

We'll see what happens next.

[thellama73]

Why are you afraid that you will be the target?

OK, of the two of you, I will vote llama, .

That's why.

[Marmot]

Why are you afraid that you will be the target?

Anyway, I'm voting llama.

That's why.

I wanted to see SVS' reaction too.