Willow [Endgame]

[Turnip Head]

FZ and bea, I am disappointed that neither of you voted.

[S~V~S]

Why are you afraid that you will be the target?

OK, of the two of you, I will vote llama, .

That's why.

What? I would vote for Mother theresa to save myself, but between you & TH, I feel better about him.

Are you saying it's personal? Welcome to my world, that is how I have felt the entire game.

[Turnip Head]

I've literally been sneaking mafia breaks every few minutes at work. I think I'm addicted. This is not a healthy obsession especially when I usually end up getting lynched anyway >.<

[FZ.]

FZ and bea, I am disappointed that neither of you voted.

OMG, I didn't realize it was over. I stayed up just to make a decision before deadline. I swear I thought we had more time

[bea]

craptastic. I fricking missed it. Sorry. Gah. I crumbled under the pressure and couldn't make up my mind.

linki - tbh TH, I'm pretty disappointed in my self.

I was second and third and fourth and fifth guessing myself the whole way along.

[FZ.]

So it's a tie? What happens now? I'm really sorry I didn't vote. Dang

[Andrew]

Lynch fz

[thellama73]

So it's a tie? What happens now? I'm really sorry I didn't vote. Dang

Rob usually has no-lynch ties, which is good because I might not die, but bad because SVS might not either.

[Marmot]

I've literally been sneaking mafia breaks every few minutes at work. I think I'm addicted. This is not a healthy obsession especially when I usually end up getting lynched anyway >.<

Sounds like we need to lynch you just to save your job. :P

[FZ.]

Lynch fz

Hello to you too

[Epignosis]

Who made bacon out of bird?

Poll ended at Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:54 pm

Andrew
0
No votes

bea
0
No votes

DharmaHelper
0
No votes

Elohcin
0
No votes

FZ.
0
No votes

insertnamehere
0
No votes

Kate
0
No votes

Metalmarsh89
0
No votes

Sorsha
0
No votes

S~V~S
3
insertnamehere (2), Turnip Head (3), thellama73 (5)
30%

thellama73
3
Kate (7), Metalmarsh89 (9), S~V~S (10)
30%

Turnip Head
2
DharmaHelper (6), Sorsha (8)
20%

Val Kilmer (The Host, the Non, the Dead)
2
Epignosis (1), juliets (4)
20%


Total votes : 10

[Epignosis]

Lynch fz

Due to technical issues, this is a valid vote.

[thellama73]

Lynch fz

Due to technical issues, this is a valid vote.

The ageist favoritism continues.

[Epignosis]

Day 2: Brownies! I Hate Brownies!

The road toward the Dikini crossroads was not peaceful, and where the fragrance of wildflowers should have pleased the travelers’ senses, the odor of impending death was among them.

thellama73 uttered his last words when someone decided that he was a lizard who should be taken out and drowned.

“Lizards? Who you calling lizards? Grrr! Grrr! Your mother was a lizard!”

The sad travelers engraved this on his pebble tombstone after burying him in a matchbox.

thellama73 has been lynched. He was Rool.

[S~V~S]

Yeah, that was what I thought

Sorry Llama, but I had to self preserve.

[Epignosis]

Night 2: Give Me Some Water, Peck

The Dikini Crossroads reeked of death, and there was good reason for that.

It was peppered with gibbets and cages. Some of the supposed dead within still moved.

One of them snatched a traveler into the air and pressed his face against the rusty iron bars. “Give me some water, you miserable little peck, or you die.”

In order to free his companion, someone opened the cage. The man fell out from the bottom and so dropped his captive.

He was a rough-looking sort, with missing teeth and an eye-patch.

“My friends! You have done the right thing! I have a reward for the person who freed me.”

The former prisoner looked around. In his thirstiness and anger, he had not seen who let him out.

“Who freed me?” he asked.

It is now Night 2. You have 23 hours to send in your PMs.

[thellama73]

It wouldn't be mafia if I weren't killed off in the first couple of days

[Epignosis]

My fellow mods, do kindly note that the thread is locked in between phases.

[DharmaHelper]

Well I am starting to feel sketched out by the whole "self preserve" schtick by SVS. >_>

[S~V~S]

Sorry, did not notice that

Will be more careful in the future

Linki~ why? You would not vote whomever to save yourself? This is the norm, everyone does it.

[DharmaHelper]

Sorry, did not notice that

Will be more careful in the future

Linki~ why? You would not vote whomever to save yourself? This is the norm, everyone does it.

It just seems like a fool me twice, shame on me scenario.

[Elohcin]

A little of both, it depends on the person. llama, for instance, or MP, distances HARD, throws them under the bus sometimes before the bus is even in the terminal, lol. Some others have problems doing that to teammates until it is down to the wire.

This is a sidebar and not really relevant to the current game, but you always assert this about me, and it is not really true. I think I did it once in a game you hosted so I have that reputation with you, but honestly it is pretty rare for me to throw teammates under the bus.

Carry on.

I have been bad with Llama. He never threw any of us under the bud. TH, however...he will .

RIP Llama. I feel really bad about your lynch for two reasons. I figured you were civ. I think you were targeted b/c of the way you spoke your mind on the Andrew situation. And...even though I agree with your opinion, I think others (including SVS) may have felt you came off a bit harsh and without much tact. I am someone who understands this as I, myself, have very little tact :/. It is a weakness. But, I feel extra bad b/c if I hadn't forgotten this was a 24 hour lynch instead of 48, I could have helped save you. So, I am sorry for that.

[Kate]

Lynch fz

Due to technical issues, this is a valid vote.

The ageist favoritism continues.

seriously? Why don't you educate yourself before insulting an 8 year old? Or better yet mind your business and trust the host's word?

[FZ.]

Wow, I'm really sorry llama. I feel even worse for missing the vote
This sucks.
SVS, you just said you thought you knew what TH was, not llama, if I'm not mistaken, and you said that out of the two you trusted TH more. So why are you suddenly saying that's what you thought?


But what happened. SVS got three votes before llama did. Why would she survive and not him?

I need to go to sleep

[bea]

RIP Llama.

Wow, I'm really sorry llama. I feel even worse for missing the vote
This sucks.
SVS, you just said you thought you knew what TH was, not llama, if I'm not mistaken, and you said that out of the two you trusted TH more. So why are you suddenly saying that's what you thought?


But what happened. SVS got three votes before llama did. Why would she survive and not him?

I need to go to sleep

Might as well ask the host...

Dearest Host with the Most: How are ties decided?

[Epignosis]

Dearest Host with the Most: How are ties decided?

With caution.

[Elohcin]

Dearest Host with the Most: How are ties decided?

With caution.

:P

[Turnip Head]

Rest in peace llama.

[thellama73]

Lynch fz

Due to technical issues, this is a valid vote.

The ageist favoritism continues.

seriously? Why don't you educate yourself before insulting an 8 year old? Or better yet mind your business and trust the host's word?

Why don't you learn to take a joke? Also, I didn't insult an 8 year old. I insulted the host. And the fact that he is 8 has no bearing on whether or not I insult him, because I treat children like people, not fragile little porcelain dolls.

[insertnamehere]

I am getting nervous about how few people have voted. If there is a sudden rush to save SVS and I end up dying, I hope the rest of you will realize why.

Welp.

[insertnamehere]

Guess who I'm going to be looking at tomorrow? Also, Andrew, what are your thoughts on the situation? Why did you vote for FZ?

[Turnip Head]

Citizens of Nelwyn,

Another tragedy has befallen us today.

Vote for me to receive the freed prisoner's reward, and I will use it to continue the fight against the evil that threatens to consume us.

I look forward to doing battle once more tomorrow.

I will not give up.

[insertnamehere]

Lynch fz

Due to technical issues, this is a valid vote.

The ageist favoritism continues.

seriously? Why don't you educate yourself before insulting an 8 year old? Or better yet mind your business and trust the host's word?

This was Kate's only post after the Llama lynch. No "Whoops, I lynched a civ! I'm so wacky like that!", just her misinterpreting a joke.

[insertnamehere]

Also, voted TH.

[Sorsha]

Voted dh

[Marmot]

I voted bea for the reward. I'm going off the main grid and voting someone who seems generally trustworthy.

[S~V~S]

Wow, I'm really sorry llama. I feel even worse for missing the vote
This sucks.
SVS, you just said you thought you knew what TH was, not llama, if I'm not mistaken, and you said that out of the two you trusted TH more. So why are you suddenly saying that's what you thought?


But what happened. SVS got three votes before llama did. Why would she survive and not him?

I need to go to sleep

The way they came out of the gate, in tandem, I thought it was a strong possibility that they had BTS. but becasue I just played against them in Harry Potter, and you would never have guessed that they were teammates, it looked more like civ BTS to me than bad BTS. BUT, I was guessing, I did not know it for a fact, so since I was forced to choose one of them to save myself, Llama felt a bit "sinister" to me. TBH, he always feels sinister, and TH almost never does, but MM, I believe it was voted to tie the two of them so close to the end of the lynch, I had to make a fast decision. Before that, TH had more votes, and I was ready to vote for him, too.

I had to vote for one of them, or be assured of death. So I felt llama was more likely of the two to be bad, if either of them were, which i doubted. But like i said, i had to make a choice. If it were simple baddie self preservation, I would have voted TH, his arguments are more organized and less intuitive in nature. He is harder to argue against. He is a more formidable enemy, at least for me, but I also felt that, if i were wrong about who they were, TH was more likely to be civ. The more hyperbolic his language, in my experience, the more likely he is to be civ, and he kept saying stuff like "Young Andrew", and how I needed a "sap". He has a self righteous tone when hes a civ, he just sounds earnest when hes bad, IMO.

But again, i would have voted for him too, if i had had to.

I am also gonna go with DH, since I don't want to give someone who wants to kill me another prize, and DH seems to be his most serious rival, and i have to go to work.

[Elohcin]

I'm not a big fan of self voters, but I do think TH is the most obvious civ. I haven't agreed with much of what SVS has said this game, perhaps only one thing really and that is I believe she may have been correct about llama and TH having civ btsc. Llama's unfortunate death has only made this idea more believable. *votes TH*

[Turnip Head]

First of all, I have to admit that I've made some mistakes this game. My strong and focused suspicion of SVS has made me look like I have a one track mind, like I'm on some sort of mission. In a way, I am.

I assumed that my suspicions would be given a certain benefit of the doubt, that players would at least believe that I myself believed firmly in my suspicions. I assumed that players would look at what I was saying and decide for themselves whether or not they agreed with the things I was pointing at, with the behavior I've observed. This is not at all how people reacted to my posts about SVS: people only wanted to look at whether my intentions were pure or not, and did not focus on the actual points I was trying to raise.

I tried to open a dialogue with SVS so that others would see the same things I was seeing. I was hoping players would read between the lines as I have done.

I'm also not very good at sounding convincing, it seems. I like to play a clean game: I don't get into shouting arguments with players I'm playing against, I don't take cheap shots. Mafia should be fun, and in my opinion it gets too harsh sometimes, especially in the heat of the moment. I try to always be cool and collected when making my points against other players: perhaps this causes people to not trust me, or to doubt my intentions, or to think that my suspicions are not genuine.

This was my mistake. I've been making this mistake from pretty much the minute I set foot onto The Syndicate, after a mafia hiatus of a few years. People do not play mafia the same way they used to. People do not play mafia the same way that I do.

I was able to play a good baddie game in Harry Potter because I was able to figure out what indicators people look for in a civilian.

I have yet to figure out what people look for in baddies.

It is much easier to FAKE being a civilian than it is to actually be one. It is much more difficult to be a civvie these days than it used to be. Baddie games have gotten slicker and harder to pin down with "evidence". And as a civvie, you have your own team working against you, doubting your every word as you try to pursue your suspicions and catch baddies. Paranoia floods the civvie mindset. Some civvies sit back and do not contribute toward their team's efforts. Baddies sit back and avoid suspicion altogether. In a speed game setting especially, where there is not much time to discuss what's happening, it's difficult for the civilians to make the right moves. The baddies hold all the cards.

In the time since I joined The Syndicate, the civilians have not won a single game.


________________________________________________________________
You know what bothers me the most about your behavior the past 24 hours, SVS? You have not even tried to look like you were hunting for baddies. I know that if you were a civilian, you would not have let the lynch get to the point where it was between you and 2 people you believed were civvies. At the very least, I think you would have been more upset about how we let it get to that point. This is a game where we can change our votes; you had plenty of opportunity to help find a baddie yesterday, to swing the lynch in another direction, away from me, you and Llama. In all of your posts towards the tail end of the lynch, there is not one single mention of a player that you find suspicious. Your posts are just explanations and justifications; no pondering the motives of other players, no questioning their intentions or their tone. You're not interested in finding baddies to lynch; you're content to lynch civilians, as long as you're able to come out of it looking blameless. You don't want to accuse your teammates, because duh, and you don't want to accuse civilians either because you want to keep them on your side.

Your only suspicions this game, SVS, have been half-hearted at best. "I did not love INH's vote for Sorsha"; "I thought bea and MM's self-votes on Day 1 were unnecessary". Those are, to my knowledge, the ONLY suspicions you've voiced all game. I know you've been under fire since the start, but I also know that as a civvie you are capable of so much more. Even if your name is being bandied around as a lynch prospect, you would want to be voicing your suspicions, you would have gut instincts that you simply wouldn't be able to ignore. And you would want to prove your civvieness by helping lynch a baddie. You would want to help your fellow civilians win.

I asked you to further develop your case against INH, when there was still plenty of time to swing the lynch against someone you thought was a baddie. But you dropped that suspicion completely and focused only on defending yourself while trying to make my suspicion of you look misplaced.

I enjoy playing with you as a civvie (at least when I'm a civvie too), I trust your gut and your intuition, I value your reading of other players.

But I hate playing against you when you're a baddie. I do not enjoy having to make arguments against you, or trying to convince others that I might be right about you; I'm not a masochist.

That said, this is why I play mafia. The battles of wits. The struggle. The need to be proven right. The desire to win and to be an important part of that victory.

________________________________________________________________
I have not forgotten about Burglekutt, who likely had a hand in yesterday's lynch. Unless his victims missed the vote (a possibility, and I'm not sure what the punishment would be), Burglekutt either made DH and Sorsha vote for me, or he made Kate and Metalmarsh vote for Llama.

THIS IS ALL SPECULATION, OBVS: It is my current belief that Kate might be SVS's teammate, and if Kate had not been successful in helping to lynch llama yesterday, perhaps SVS's team would have lost access to one of their powers... potentially tonight's kill. That's why I think SVS voted for Llama yesterday and not me. Llama's suspicion of SVS was much different than mine, and his points against her were easier to refute. I think she'd much rather have me dead and gone, tbqh. Perhaps she'll get her wish tonight. The baddies can't afford to keep me around much longer.

Between the time that Day 2 started and when it ended, Kate made exactly one post:

I spent the day in court and just read though kinda fast. I would not and did not try to save svs. I'm a better player than that even my head is half in a game. I think bea alluded to this earlier. Not me specifically but anyone. And I don't think svs would let or encourage her team to do so.

I'm not sure why llama is so hot on her trail but it seems like a personal vendetta.

I'm voting llama or th (just because you seem bad and I don't think you should have gotten the acorns).

For now at least it's llama.

I think she was forced to vote for Llama. If she had had her own way, I think Kate would have wanted to voted for me yesterday, it certainly seemed like she wanted to in that post. I think she's jealous of my nuts.

We've lynched 2 civs in a row, obviously we're doing something wrong so far. If you are a civilian, you know that we HAVE to get a baddie tomorrow.

I want everyone to be aware of the fact that Burglekutt will probably have a hand in tomorrow's proceedings as well, and we need to be watching out for his influence.

My intention tomorrow, if I'm still alive, is to continue to work through my suspicion of SVS. And despite my speculation about Kate above, I am not currently looking to lead any case against Kate tomorrow. I would have to be successful against - and correct about - SVS before I went chasing after anyone else. So if my thoughts wander in some other direction, hopefully it will be clear why.

[bea]

I'm voting TH -

also - I really really liked that post up there sir.


MM - you are sweet k?

[Kate]

Yea, I still don't trust anyone, except Andrew (coincidentally for a lot of the reasons SVS has posited). I have no info on anyone and no idea if SVS is civ or not. She's posting like a civ, if that makes any sense. But I haven't had my head in the game enough to stake my life on it.

No, TH, I was happy with my vote for llama. Turns out I was wrong, but that was where I decided I wanted to vote. "Feces" happens.

I'd like to do a reread of Elo in the day.

[FZ.]

TH,
First of all, let me say that I really appreciate the way you play. This is exactly what I expect when I play mafia. I want people to voice their thoughts and be active, not take the easy way out, and you're delivering, no matter which side you're on.
Second, I did regard the content of your statements and not just consider your good or bad intentions, It just didn't feel enough for me at that point because of the timing, which is everything in this game. What I expect from people in the first day, is not what I expect from them in later days. Here, it's really hard to make a thorough decision because we only have 24 hours, where the site I come from, plays days for 5 RL days, which can make you feel comfortable lynching the first day, and even then, we often get it wrong.

Bottom line is, the more time passes, the more I'm leaning on agreeing with you, but I couldn't vote without feeling comfortable about it. If I'd known I had no time left, I would have probably voted for her, but felt really uncomfortable about it.

The thing is, in my book, if I have two people I'm not comfortable voting for, I'd choose the one who's contributing less, and that would be my reason for voting her, and not because I was convinced you were right. There's no point in discussing it any further, but I wanted to explain where I was coming from, if it makes any difference to you.

A part of me still thinks the baddies are letting us do the dirty job ourselves and keeping clean, but SVS is not helping me maintain my initial civvie feel of her, because I completely agree that she's not trying to find baddies at all....and I'm not going to go into the WIFOM logic that I would expect her to actually try and find baddies if she were scum, because that's what we expect from civvies

[FZ.]

By the way, gave TH my vote.


I'm worried about Sorsha. It's like she's ignoring everything that's going on in the thread, and her previous votes were weird. Why are people giving DH their vote? What has he done that's garnered any trust?

[Turnip Head]

Yes FZ, I forgot to make mention of it in my previous post, but you are one player I feel has considered the content of my posts and not just my intentions behind posting them. It's one of the reasons I've been feeling good about you so far.

I understand your hesitation to vote yesterday. And I agree that some things can only become clearer with the passing of time.

I'm unsure about Sorsha so far. It seems to me she's playing her own game, which has me leaning civ for her. Sorsha and I almost never see eye to eye in mafia, so I'm not surprised that she's voted for me twice now.

[FZ.]

Yes FZ, I forgot to make mention of it in my previous post, but you are one player I feel has considered the content of my posts and not just my intentions behind posting them. It's one of the reasons I've been feeling good about you so far.

I understand your hesitation to vote yesterday. And I agree that some things can only become clearer with the passing of time.

I'm unsure about Sorsha so far. It seems to me she's playing her own game, which has me leaning civ for her. Sorsha and I almost never see eye to eye in mafia, so I'm not surprised that she's voted for me twice now.

Shhhh, don't say that at night time, I don't want to be NK , but good to know.

I don't get Sorsha, but I'm not used to playing with her, so I don't know.
Okay, then who else don't you trust other than SVS? What's your take on DH? MM and INH? Do you think one of the baddies is now sucking up to you, after it seems like you're being more trusted by people?

[Turnip Head]

DH seems to be playing with a clear head. I don't have a read on him but I appreciate how he's approaching the game so far. I like INH's perspective in the game as well and I think he's working towards a civ victory.

I haven't played much with Marshy. I don't think she has been manipulative at all, and I've found her perspective to be genuine.

The players I'm watching the closest are (in order) SVS, Kate, Elohcin, Sorsha, Andrew. Sorry for putting the 8 year old on that list but I'm not giving him a free pass, and if placed on a team with SVS and Kate they would be truly dangerous, so I wish we could get more of his perspective. Elo in particular I'm worried about conning me. She is so nice and always seems genuine to me, but I know she's learned a thing or two about being a baddie They can't all be bad but they're the ones I'm watching the closest right now.

I'm also not sure about bea but I hope she's civvie and so far I'm thinking she is. Most of her participation so far has come when she's been Irish lol.

My thoughts on other players are extremely fluid, and I get a better grasp on players the more I talk with them and not just about them.

[FZ.]

DH seems to be playing with a clear head. I don't have a read on him but I appreciate how he's approaching the game so far. I like INH's perspective in the game as well and I think he's working towards a civ victory.

I haven't played much with Marshy. I don't think she has been manipulative at all, and I've found her perspective to be genuine.

The players I'm watching the closest are (in order) SVS, Kate, Elohcin, Sorsha, Andrew. Sorry for putting the 8 year old on that list but I'm not giving him a free pass, and if placed on a team with SVS and Kate they would be truly dangerous, so I wish we could get more of his perspective. Elo in particular I'm worried about conning me. She is so nice and always seems genuine to me, but I know she's learned a thing or two about being a baddie They can't all be bad but they're the ones I'm watching the closest right now.

I'm also not sure about bea but I hope she's civvie and so far I'm thinking she is. Most of her participation so far has come when she's been Irish lol.

My thoughts on other players are extremely fluid, and I get a better grasp on players the more I talk with them and not just about them.

The last line is so true, which would be easier if most players actually said something instead of throwing in a line about them being busy or their head not being in the game.
Elo feels more involved in this game, than I've experienced her in the two games she's played before and she was a civvie then. But that has dropped now as well. Also, she's been agreeing with me, which I'm not sure how to take.
I get the Andrew part. We can't rule him out. All he's said so far this day was lynch me. He said that in the first day as well, because of what I said I wouldn't let my kid play. I felt he was just keeping with the same notion of day 1. Not sure what to make of him not being active at all. On the one hand, maybe he's finding it hard to lie and prefers avoiding. I've seen enough baddies do that. On the other hand, maybe it's his reaction to being talked about so much in the beginning, which to be honest, was not fair or objective. So until I hear more from him, I don't know what to think of him. Kate seems to trust him. I doubt she'd be using him if she was a baddie, so I wonder why she trusts him, and what it tells about either one's alignment.

[FZ.]

why did people have to go and vote for llama? Now there's no one here to talk to

[bea]

DH seems to be playing with a clear head. I don't have a read on him but I appreciate how he's approaching the game so far. I like INH's perspective in the game as well and I think he's working towards a civ victory.

I haven't played much with Marshy. I don't think she has been manipulative at all, and I've found her perspective to be genuine.

The players I'm watching the closest are (in order) SVS, Kate, Elohcin, Sorsha, Andrew. Sorry for putting the 8 year old on that list but I'm not giving him a free pass, and if placed on a team with SVS and Kate they would be truly dangerous, so I wish we could get more of his perspective. Elo in particular I'm worried about conning me. She is so nice and always seems genuine to me, but I know she's learned a thing or two about being a baddie They can't all be bad but they're the ones I'm watching the closest right now.

I'm also not sure about bea but I hope she's civvie and so far I'm thinking she is. Most of her participation so far has come when she's been Irish lol.

My thoughts on other players are extremely fluid, and I get a better grasp on players the more I talk with them and not just about them.

Fair point TH, I'm trying a bit more. Between the holiday, a VERY long weekend and the speed game time frame, I'm having a rough time wrapping my head around this one. I used to be really good at speed games but this is the second one I've played in in like 5 years - the pacing the reading is different. That *and* coming off the WAY long time frame of the k-site game, I'm just a bit wonkajeeby.

I do see what you are saying about SVS not bringing suspicions to the table. I have a rough time with her though in general. She is (even more than my hubby) my mafia blind spot. I always want her to be civ so much, that often when she's bad, I'm the last person to see it.

I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary from Sorsha to make make think she might be bad.

And my guests just showed up so I'm afraid it's time for me to go for a bit.

BBL.

[Epignosis]

A reminder that Night 2 ends at 6:23pm EST.