Space Invaders [END]

[nutella]

Hoping that aliens double stacked on nutes to bury KP cause people wasting bunker saves is honestly bad

Sighs

Alright well might as well claim protects last nights, I think it’s bad but whatever I’m clearly not winning mechanics arguments this game for some reason

hmmmm... if they were paying attention they'd have known that I assigned four people to me (even if both wolves were in that group I'd be guaranteed to survive)

so either the wolves weren't paying attention and wasted a shot, or somebody successfully saved somebody else.


either way that's cool

wolves assume tsp goes for some fancy play if they have two in the four tbh

can you spell this out for me a bit


are you saying, if the aliens were two of dunya/dizzy/proto, they think you'd FPS and skip the protection as some kind of test? and is this based on them having meta on you doing weird mechanical stuff (like maybe dunya specifically based on what you did at the end of ziggy?) or am I way off on understanding what you meant here

[Epignosis]

I'm not so sure about Epi anymore either, after thinking about a few things. Making us believe that Nutella is protected when she is not is one of the best strategies that aliens can use.

So level 1.

[Epignosis]

I predict Epi is going to do the same thing again and get townread again. Its so frustrating.

[Alison]

A contributing factor to my semi-slanking is also that I don’t really think reads matter this game? What matters are preserving enough protects to keep nutella and her being able to find us as town, our actual reads don’t really mean anything.

I disagree with this post for reasons I've already stated (it's a total waste of bunker brainpower if you just potato and let nutella carry you, and nutella can miss stuff without other pairs of eyes helping her), but also reading this in the context of his ISO it looks even worse because he's spent a reasonable amount of time talking about reads. How does "bunker reads don't matter, just project town to nutella" and "bimbo and mac have 1.5 scum between them" come from the same person? It feels like a pre-emptive excuse for having bad or scummy reads, by going "oh, I don't care about reads this game" to dismiss people questioning their reads.

[MacDougall]

I'm not so sure about Epi anymore either, after thinking about a few things. Making us believe that Nutella is protected when she is not is one of the best strategies that aliens can use.

So level 1.

Epi is finally using mafia lingo from outside TS lmfao

[nutella]

also like imagine thinking there could be such a thing as "projecting town" that doesn't include giving reads

[Alison]

nutella town
im town
proto town
you town

i believe dizzy saying he wouldnt kill hally

epi towny for being a solo agent and didnt he also say the same about killing hally?

tony i finally warmed up to and i think i understand him more now. i no longer "scumread his personality". personally i dont care about the soneji thing wrt tony

long con for his day 2, i think it was much better than his d1
(long con town i meant)

macD for his emotion on d1, and his "redemption arc" where he then started firing off cool sounding posts

alison im lowkey paranoid for being a mafia mastermind, but, thats only if she hard bussed carotte (and if carotte is maf in the first place) so i dont wanna think about it

so from my pov poe is nanook + rej + carotte

The big thing here is Alison, especially that Alison is being pushed as a busser of carrotte...but then they're...not aligned? What? I can accept bringing LC out of the POE over 12 hours without talking about it, but like...this is the kind of thing that doesn't make sense and is relatively commonly a thing mafia does cause they forget their reads/the worlds they've built.

So yeah, it's not exactly a smoking gun, but I'd say somewhat >rand mafia.

I think tutuu's wording ("lowkey paranoid... that's only if... i dont wanna think about it") makes it clear that at the time of this post she did townread me and this "Alison is bussing Carrotte" theory is just a tinfoil that she may not take super seriously. I'm not sure what to make of nanook misinterpreting it that hard, could be town just having a hard time tracking the progression or misreading the tone, could be scum trying to make up something to cast shade on tutuu. I guess it's a wash, but I'd appreciate an answer as to how nanook interpreted tutuu's statement there.

[Epignosis]

I'm not so sure about Epi anymore either, after thinking about a few things. Making us believe that Nutella is protected when she is not is one of the best strategies that aliens can use.

So level 1.

Epi is finally using mafia lingo from outside TS lmfao

I have also taken to telling my children I will yeet them out the window if they don't behave.

(The beauty in that is that I get to make it a learning moment for them. "The proper phrase, boys and girls, is that 'I will defenestrate your asses if you don't shut the fuck up.'"

[nutella]

I'm not so sure about Epi anymore either, after thinking about a few things. Making us believe that Nutella is protected when she is not is one of the best strategies that aliens can use.

So level 1.

Epi is finally using mafia lingo from outside TS lmfao

I have also taken to telling my children I will yeet them out the window if they don't behave.

(The beauty in that is that I get to make it a learning moment for them. "The proper phrase, boys and girls, is that 'I will defenestrate your asses if you don't shut the fuck up.'"

this is the funniest thing I've read all week

[Alison]

The rest of nanook's iso is just being insistent on mechanic stuff/yelling at people to follow the protection scheme. Not much else to say wrt that. I'm pretty uncomfortable with some of the sketchy stuff I saw in his ISO and the initial townread of him for tone and insistence on mechanics has mostly faded away (especially since they've returned to the thread but are still generating low amounts of content beyond a push on tutuu which I think is bad and more mechanics stuff). I still think Carrotte is probably scummier since there's some towny content in nanook's iso but nanook is in my PoE for sure.

[Alison]

ok, time to do a catchup...

[MacDougall]

ISO's nook before catch up... weird

[MacDougall]

weird weird weird

[Alison]

tbh I kinda don't wanna overthink the mechanics and just do the only protect nutella thing

My only issue with that is I feel that proto is gonna get shot and I wanna keep him

I want to keep proto too. Why do you think proto is going to get shot?

[Alison]

ISO's nook before catch up... weird

I was supposed to do it on Day 2, I've procastinated and put it off for 2 game phases.

[MacDougall]

whatever who is alien?

[Epignosis]

we shouldnt let aliens bias nutella into picking them, this means we should also shun townies for trying to bias nutella into picking them

lets all listen to proto and nanook, true pioneers of mafia. lets take it a step fruther, lets all stop posting. by posting, the aliens are potentially tricking nutella. therefore, if we all stop posting, the aliens cant trick nutella

[Epignosis]

What if they scumread Rej for having a low postcount? Its kinda how you got scummier that one day you were afk.

i don't theorize on why a player could be scum reading another player. if they list them in bottom three of their POE and repeatedly shade them and pair them with our flipped mafia, they should have made it OBVIOUS why they scum read them. otherwise, this looks like distancing to me.

I am less inclined to suspect rej due to his admission that he protected Epi last night.

bitch lied

[Alison]

God, I'm stuck in Thursday afternoon. It's Friday evening here.

Oh well. Time to make the doughnuts.

dunya, I mentioned above a bit that I had basically the whole game as null or town. Caro is one of the players I think is suspicious, based on what I raised above about her progression on me. I might have better/firmer scumreads for you after I re-eval but as it stands my PoE is something like [Caro, LC, Rej] or something. Basically just Caro + two people I can't read. Everyone says Rej is scummy but frankly my eyes glaze over so hard when I read the stuff he writes I can't form an independent opinion on him so.

can you take the player list and gun to your head, assign each player as either town or scum?

its a neat exercise where we decide GTH without lots of facts and evidence to back up our reads, what our intuition says.

i love it tbh

This is very far from my usual style but, gun to my head: LC scum, Caro scum, Rej town out of that PoE. For some reason I want to say Dizzy scum even though their mindmeld with me makes me townread them and my feeling towards them is town in general. I don't know why. Everyone else is town probably.

Don't ask me to justify any of this, it's pure guesswork. :P

Qualifier here.

"This is very far from my usual style but"

Note the very and the formula of the phrase. Already it's a hedge.

"Rej town out of that PoE"

I get this is in response to a "GTH" prod, but I don't care. The "Don't ask me to justify any of this, it's pure guesswork. :P" creates a hedge sandwich. These are ideas delivered while begging to escape scrutiny or accountability. I don't think a civilian who has nothing to worry about as long as nutella trusts him or her has any need to give a shit about what anybody else thinks. This looks like shits are given. This looks like a Rej teammate.

I'm posting this. I'll be back with the weather at 11.

You're absolutely correct - I'm hedging and I don't want people to hold me accountable for my GTH reads. Because GTH reads suck. I did it because dunya asked me to, and if it helps her solving style so be it. But the GTH are purely intuition based reads that have 0 connection to any kind of logic or reasoning, so I absolutely don't want people to ask me to justify them, or hold me accountable for them because I don't endorse them. Hold me accountable for my actual reads, but not this free-association stuff. I also wrote LC scum and Dizzy scum in that GTH - both reads I don't currently endorse. If you want to ask me to give a list of reads off the top of my head without engaging in any kind of logical thought or analysis, don't also expect me to stand by them.

[Epignosis]

LC attacking Epi and tutuu for horrible reasons here is super bad and I think it is the scummy kind of bad. Town tunnels tend to be one person just going in like a freight train and dredging up 10 reasons why someone is scum and building a case, while the scum version tends to be a lot of shade-throwing while leaving plausible deniability, and LC's attack on tutuu for a post that I think is frankly innocuous (and I explained why there is nothing wrong with it) rubs me the wrong way.

Didn't you ask me to share my reads more? Now I shared a read and suddenly it's anti town and I'm not behaving like Town should with massive tunnelling.

Why was my post a massive attack , and not the statement of a suspicion? Did I just try to rally everyone to yeet a suspect without question or something?

Part of the reason I asked you to share your reads was to get a better read on you. You shared your reads - now I have a better read on you. I think your reads are bad and the way you went about attacking tutuu was bad. You're correct that it wasn't a massive attack - that's what a town tunnel would look like (like I said in my post). Yours felt way sketchier because it was like twisting a completely innocuous statement by tutuu ("I'm going to protect nutella") into some nonsense about subverting nutella's protection. That is why I thought it was scummy.

I have an issue with your characterization of tutuu's statement as "completely innocuous" and my response as "some nonsense". You sound like you know that this is a weak suspicion, so you need to add flowery language to predispose others to agree.

ohh this is good. and i agree w/r/t alison

what is w/r/t?

width/radius/tangent

It's a math thing. You wouldn't understand.

[Alison]

Rej is actually a null read for me, but dunya asked me to read people gun to head so I just blurted out the first word that comes to mind (town or scum) when I think of their name, without thinking too hard about it. Like I said, don't ask me to justify any of those reads.

Just in case anybody is really concerned about that Rej opinion, here's a quick followup (buttressed by an adverb "actually") that essentially tells us that Alison doesn't want anybody to take it seriously.

This isn't trying to figure Rej out. This is "Shit, I have to say something about Rej."

You're correct again. I did, in fact, have to say something about Rej, because Hally questioned me about my GTH read. Rej was in fact a null read for me at the point in time I wrote that post, and I even wrote a post saying that Rej/LC/TSP were players I couldn't get a lock on because my eyes kept glazing over when I looked at their posts. I put Rej as town on my GTH, and Hally went "I don't understand why anyone would townread Rej", so I explained to her my thought process. You're right when you say that I don't want people to take my GTH seriously. I don't, because GTHs are logically unsound, and historically speaking my "intuition" reads have been a lot less correct than my logic-based ones.

[Alison]

* Overall I dislike how Alison went from having like exactly 3 scumreads to townreading everyone to being nitpicky to shade people. That's the global vibe I get.

This is a very lazy push.

1) Where is your promised followup responding to my issues with your progression on me?
2) What exactly makes you think that going from 3 scumreads -> townreading everyone -> being nitpicky (I assume you're referring to the argument between me and LC here) is a scummy thing to do? If you townread everyone, wouldn't you be nitpicky and try to look for small signs of scum to see who's tricking you (because clearly there are no low hanging fruit wolves to be caught here)?
3) "Overall I dislike"... "that's the global vibe I get" is an extremely vague and low-effort way of attacking a player who is supposedly your strongest scumread and who you've been scumreading all game.

[Carotenoid]

* Overall I dislike how Alison went from having like exactly 3 scumreads to townreading everyone to being nitpicky to shade people. That's the global vibe I get.

This is a very lazy push.

1) Where is your promised followup responding to my issues with your progression on me?
2) What exactly makes you think that going from 3 scumreads -> townreading everyone -> being nitpicky (I assume you're referring to the argument between me and LC here) is a scummy thing to do? If you townread everyone, wouldn't you be nitpicky and try to look for small signs of scum to see who's tricking you (because clearly there are no low hanging fruit wolves to be caught here)?
3) "Overall I dislike"... "that's the global vibe I get" is an extremely vague and low-effort way of attacking a player who is supposedly your strongest scumread and who you've been scumreading all game.

I did answer, keep catching-up

[Alison]

I think I understand what Epi is trying to do here and if my theory is correct he's town

Found the reference. Can you share?

Found answer. You thought they were reaction checking you so you flipped your read of them to town. Epi then confirms they weren't doing anything of the sort. Why do you hold a townread on them?

@Alison

response still pending - reminder to self

Don't understand the question. Epi said they were throwing shit around to see what sticks, which is congruent with my theory that they were attacking me to try to see if I'd crack or show some kind of alignment-indicative reaction. It's a cruder way of putting it, but it's the same basic principle.

[Epignosis]

I am now realizing WHY this should be run as a Burglary and not a Heist. Pages and pages of the same stuff.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Hoping that aliens double stacked on nutes to bury KP cause people wasting bunker saves is honestly bad

Sighs

Alright well might as well claim protects last nights, I think it’s bad but whatever I’m clearly not winning mechanics arguments this game for some reason

hmmmm... if they were paying attention they'd have known that I assigned four people to me (even if both wolves were in that group I'd be guaranteed to survive)

so either the wolves weren't paying attention and wasted a shot, or somebody successfully saved somebody else.


either way that's cool

wolves assume tsp goes for some fancy play if they have two in the four tbh

can you spell this out for me a bit


are you saying, if the aliens were two of dunya/dizzy/proto, they think you'd FPS and skip the protection as some kind of test? and is this based on them having meta on you doing weird mechanical stuff (like maybe dunya specifically based on what you did at the end of ziggy?) or am I way off on understanding what you meant here

that's exactly what I mean. I am insinuating this very thing. it can be two of them or just one, maybe they think me and proto or something aren't likely to follow along. Maybe there's something else. NKA is wifom in the best of times, it's moreso here. But let's say it is dunya/dizzy, a team that isn't in immediate danger but feels the poe closing quickly. Two of them are positioned as protects, but another is added on late. But I've been borderline inactive and they know that I might try something else. The narrative lines up.

[Epignosis]

I'm not picking in a vacuum.

Thank God.

That would suck.

[Alison]

Shoot I completely forgot to answer that sorry!
I'm gonna answer in the quote it feels less complicated.

Hmn okay I think protocultures is town.

Alison is still alien.

This is weird. Why bring me up? I wasn't involved in that conversation, I hadn't posted recently. Because for some reason many people townread and I just don't see why. It was a "hey don't forget that this person exist".I looked through your ISO to see if this was some progression of your read on me and noticed that in #634 you write "I feel like my reads haven't really changed and I'm not too sure what to think about that." In that very same post you interrogate me about my meta trawling of Dizzy and in #681 you say you directly feel that meta trawling, as well as my suspicion of Mac, were solid grounds to suspect me on. That doesn't jive with "my reads haven't changed, and I'm unsure how to feel about that" - it sounds to me like your read on me deepened greatly, and you feel sure and convicted of that.The keyword here is "really". This is either really nitpicky or deforming my words here. You're acting as if I said "hey my reads are exactly exactly exactly the same than before" when I was referring to a general/big picture that feels similar. Also like 681 comes after 634 so ??? what is the problem lol

In #1000 Mac asks you about your reads and you just go "still think Alison is alien". It's a very brief mention, but it also is phrased in such a way that it makes me think you hold basically the same views you had before. Did your opinion of me not develop at all in those hundreds of posts? For context, the portion of the thread where I meta trawl Dizzy and attack Mac was around #550. Are you really saying your opinion of someone you evidently consider to be your top (and only?) scumread has no changed for better or worse in 450 posts of content? Keyword here is that this is what makes *you* think of. You made that up. To answer your questions I don't really remember and 450 posts of content =/= 450 posts of content regarding you specifically so that's just irrelevant.

The progression of your read on me has felt extremely weird. You say the read on me has stayed mostly the same and that you're indecisive about it I'm pretty sure I was referring to general gamestate when I said that, then harshly attack me for the meta trawl and push on Mac I don't think I was that harsh but ok. Then you completely stagnate your read for 450 posts That would have been relevant if you did 450 posts, and then bring me up as a "oh by the way Alison is scum" completely out of the blue. Why haven't you been making more of an effort to push me hard and convince everyone I'm scum if you really scumread me that badly? Do you think "oh by the way Alison is scum" is likely to convince nutella to laser me if you really think I am scum? I don't understand any of your behavior regarding your stance on me tbh Don't you think I would push you more if I was scum?

Overall your case on me feels really "meh" and OMGUS.

ok, cut out 1) from my criticism of Carotte above, she did respond and I just didn't see because it was later on. Responses to her response:

a) I believe #634 is after the meta trawling that you claim you suspected me for. This isn't a nitpick - seeing the person you scumread most dig a hole for themselves/do something you consider openly scummy shouldn't merit a "I guess nothing has really changed" reaction - it should lead to you actively going on the offense and trying to expose them, especially if people are townreading them for it. Everyone plays their own way and some players are more passive than others, but I'm having a hard time thinking of any town player who just sits back and goes "nothing has changed really, carry on" when their top scumread is incriminating themselves in front of everyone's faces. It's the same issue I had with your "general vibe" push on me. There is a severe disconnect with the intensity of your push vs the alleged strength of your read. How is it that the most interaction/argument you have with the person you scumread the most comes about from them coming to you and asking you to justify your read, rather than you attacking them in the first place?

b) "Oh I just meant something different" isn't a defence that's going to cut it. "Still think Alison is alien" is, on a plain reading, meaning that your read on Alison hasn't changed. That's what "still" means. If you meant something different from that, I expect you to explain what you meant and justify it, just like everyone else does. If by "still think Alison is an alien" you actually meant "my read on Alison has developed" - ok, so what has it developed to and why? Then you later offer a defense for stagnating your reads by saying "that 450 posts of content has nothing to do with you" - so you're defending the notion that your reads haven't changed, in which case why exactly are you criticizing for me interpreting your post as saying your reads haven't changed?

[Alison]

* Overall I dislike how Alison went from having like exactly 3 scumreads to townreading everyone to being nitpicky to shade people. That's the global vibe I get.

This is a very lazy push.

1) Where is your promised followup responding to my issues with your progression on me?
2) What exactly makes you think that going from 3 scumreads -> townreading everyone -> being nitpicky (I assume you're referring to the argument between me and LC here) is a scummy thing to do? If you townread everyone, wouldn't you be nitpicky and try to look for small signs of scum to see who's tricking you (because clearly there are no low hanging fruit wolves to be caught here)?
3) "Overall I dislike"... "that's the global vibe I get" is an extremely vague and low-effort way of attacking a player who is supposedly your strongest scumread and who you've been scumreading all game.

I did answer, keep catching-up

Do you have a response to 2) and 3) of this post?

[TonyStarkPrime]

LC attacking Epi and tutuu for horrible reasons here is super bad and I think it is the scummy kind of bad. Town tunnels tend to be one person just going in like a freight train and dredging up 10 reasons why someone is scum and building a case, while the scum version tends to be a lot of shade-throwing while leaving plausible deniability, and LC's attack on tutuu for a post that I think is frankly innocuous (and I explained why there is nothing wrong with it) rubs me the wrong way.

Didn't you ask me to share my reads more? Now I shared a read and suddenly it's anti town and I'm not behaving like Town should with massive tunnelling.

Why was my post a massive attack , and not the statement of a suspicion? Did I just try to rally everyone to yeet a suspect without question or something?

Part of the reason I asked you to share your reads was to get a better read on you. You shared your reads - now I have a better read on you. I think your reads are bad and the way you went about attacking tutuu was bad. You're correct that it wasn't a massive attack - that's what a town tunnel would look like (like I said in my post). Yours felt way sketchier because it was like twisting a completely innocuous statement by tutuu ("I'm going to protect nutella") into some nonsense about subverting nutella's protection. That is why I thought it was scummy.

I have an issue with your characterization of tutuu's statement as "completely innocuous" and my response as "some nonsense". You sound like you know that this is a weak suspicion, so you need to add flowery language to predispose others to agree.

ohh this is good. and i agree w/r/t alison

what is w/r/t?

width/radius/tangent

It's a math thing. You wouldn't understand.

sigh. children.

with (reference/regard/respect) to

[Epignosis]

Voting the Mathemagician proto to see the poll.

[Alison]

In relation to Alison, my understanding of where they are at in the game is they need to find more scum, because they townread too many people. If you find the suspicion meh, maybe chalk it up to that? I dunno. They are looking to lower their threshold of what is scummy behaviour to push a case.

Alison made 1 post at SoD and then vanished. When she did her first catching-up, she reacted to a few posts as she did and threw some people in a wolf team and I think she had like 3 names she scumread most. Then she spent lots of time on Epignosis and Dyslexicon and her conclusion was to townread them. Then at her next catching-up she townreads almost everyone as she goes which felt really weird considering their first approach. That's my "big picture" view of Alison and I'm not liking it.

"Alison finds three people town, then townreads Epi and Dizzy. Later she townreads everyone." is not the inconsistency of approach you're trying to paint it as. It just means that three people appeared scummy to me at first pass, and later on everyone seemed more townie to me. Note that early game scumreads are by definition weaker because you're working off less material, so it shouldn't be surprising to you that I reversed my opinions on those reads. Nor should it be surprising to you that I townread Epi and Dizzy after engaging with them and spending time on them, since the point of doing so is to determine their alignment.

[Alison]

Iso on Alison focus on Rej. No links out of pure laziness. If any specific bit interests you, I can probably dig it up from the iso if you cant find it.
Day 1 – reads Rej Null. Seems fine. I did too I think.
Don’t see anymore on Rej from Alison in an iso.

I'm quite certain she talked a lot about townreading him (like on n1/d2)?

I think I had Rej null all the way, except for my GTH read on him which was town. I don't recall this at all, which posts made you think I was townreading Rej?

[MacDougall]

Voting the Mathemagician proto to see the poll.

you didn't self vote? lol nerd

[Epignosis]

actually is it allowed to ask for ages of players in the game or is that not allowed/frowned upon. People can not choose not to answer obviously.

helps me get a point of reference as to what i should be expecting.

What should you be expecting based on people's ages?

Sounds very... mathematical.

[Alison]

Like if it's something like Proto/Mac, maybe they can do whatever the heck they want

If the wolf team is players who are deep in the towncore, you should not be like "let's roll over and accept this loss". You should be trying to find who the scum team area, whether or not they are well positioned.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Sorry Mac I think drago is scum for stuff entirely out of your control. Sorry you subbed into the wrong slot, it sucks


Semi related I’m saying 1.5 scum between Mac and bimbo

This post confused me. Nanook spent most of his time talking about mechanics prior to this, but comes out with a strong read on Dragomir scum in this post. Could be a reaction test, but... "1.5 scum between Mac and bimbo"? At the time, bimbo (Hally's slot) had no posts, so I'm just super confused why there was a relationship drawn between the slots or why a completely null slot is 50% to be a wolf.

75% actually, not 50

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

God damn it I didn't want to care about this game...

mac wolf?

Don’t think so tbh

Sorry this is wrong

Yes he probably is but not cause of anything he’s done, cause of drago

This post reads to me like scum forgetting their reads. Earlier, nanook already wrote "sorry you subbed into a wolf slot Mac", so he's already drawn a mental connection between Mac and the Dragomir slot (which he scumread), and thinks of Mac as wolf. This "don't think so tbh" feels like scum forgetting that they're "supposed" to scumread Mac, and then an attempt at correcting the mistake.

I actually forgot what game I was posting in for a sec lol

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

A contributing factor to my semi-slanking is also that I don’t really think reads matter this game? What matters are preserving enough protects to keep nutella and her being able to find us as town, our actual reads don’t really mean anything.

I disagree with this post for reasons I've already stated (it's a total waste of bunker brainpower if you just potato and let nutella carry you, and nutella can miss stuff without other pairs of eyes helping her), but also reading this in the context of his ISO it looks even worse because he's spent a reasonable amount of time talking about reads. How does "bunker reads don't matter, just project town to nutella" and "bimbo and mac have 1.5 scum between them" come from the same person? It feels like a pre-emptive excuse for having bad or scummy reads, by going "oh, I don't care about reads this game" to dismiss people questioning their reads.

I didn’t say we should all potato, I said our individual reads don’t matter, just Nutella’s ability to read us.

I don’t think my reads particularly matter but I can’t help myself sometimes. I have an ego you know. I also don’t think anyone needs to post more than 50-70 times a day in most mafia games, yet I usually go over that. Knowing the correct theory and not following it aren’t mutually exclusive

[nutella]

Hoping that aliens double stacked on nutes to bury KP cause people wasting bunker saves is honestly bad

Sighs

Alright well might as well claim protects last nights, I think it’s bad but whatever I’m clearly not winning mechanics arguments this game for some reason

hmmmm... if they were paying attention they'd have known that I assigned four people to me (even if both wolves were in that group I'd be guaranteed to survive)

so either the wolves weren't paying attention and wasted a shot, or somebody successfully saved somebody else.


either way that's cool

wolves assume tsp goes for some fancy play if they have two in the four tbh

can you spell this out for me a bit


are you saying, if the aliens were two of dunya/dizzy/proto, they think you'd FPS and skip the protection as some kind of test? and is this based on them having meta on you doing weird mechanical stuff (like maybe dunya specifically based on what you did at the end of ziggy?) or am I way off on understanding what you meant here

that's exactly what I mean. I am insinuating this very thing. it can be two of them or just one, maybe they think me and proto or something aren't likely to follow along. Maybe there's something else. NKA is wifom in the best of times, it's moreso here. But let's say it is dunya/dizzy, a team that isn't in immediate danger but feels the poe closing quickly. Two of them are positioned as protects, but another is added on late. But I've been borderline inactive and they know that I might try something else. The narrative lines up.

idk that feels far fetched to me

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

also like imagine thinking there could be such a thing as "projecting town" that doesn't include giving reads

I mean I find most of my townreads on things that aren’t directly related to people making reads lol

So yeah I think this is very much a thing, idk why you don’t

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

nutella town
im town
proto town
you town

i believe dizzy saying he wouldnt kill hally

epi towny for being a solo agent and didnt he also say the same about killing hally?

tony i finally warmed up to and i think i understand him more now. i no longer "scumread his personality". personally i dont care about the soneji thing wrt tony

long con for his day 2, i think it was much better than his d1
(long con town i meant)

macD for his emotion on d1, and his "redemption arc" where he then started firing off cool sounding posts

alison im lowkey paranoid for being a mafia mastermind, but, thats only if she hard bussed carotte (and if carotte is maf in the first place) so i dont wanna think about it

so from my pov poe is nanook + rej + carotte

The big thing here is Alison, especially that Alison is being pushed as a busser of carrotte...but then they're...not aligned? What? I can accept bringing LC out of the POE over 12 hours without talking about it, but like...this is the kind of thing that doesn't make sense and is relatively commonly a thing mafia does cause they forget their reads/the worlds they've built.

So yeah, it's not exactly a smoking gun, but I'd say somewhat >rand mafia.

I think tutuu's wording ("lowkey paranoid... that's only if... i dont wanna think about it") makes it clear that at the time of this post she did townread me and this "Alison is bussing Carrotte" theory is just a tinfoil that she may not take super seriously. I'm not sure what to make of nanook misinterpreting it that hard, could be town just having a hard time tracking the progression or misreading the tone, could be scum trying to make up something to cast shade on tutuu. I guess it's a wash, but I'd appreciate an answer as to how nanook interpreted tutuu's statement there.

I didn’t misinterpret it.

“Alison is a tinfoil read and only if she’s bussing carrot” doesn’t make sense combined with “there’s only one scum between Alison and carot.”

Read her posts closer.

[Epignosis]

Day 2

Hally died. Shame on you aliens for killing in a new player AND substitute.

Alien

Epignosis: Seems like a case of omgus from them, and tried to make 2 lengthy cases as to why I am an alien while I was asleep. Both of them got dismissed as being spurious logic by people paying attention to the game.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 00#p618818 – the case that I am partners with Soneji from a one line read on Day 1.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 00#p618828 – internally inconsistent with his own read

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 50#p619015 – sorry I don’t have a time machine to know things that happen in the future

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 00#p618825 – more open wolfing

Still hoping this might be some 5head play where they intentionally play scummy to see who townreads them, or where they make weaksauce accusations to see where it gets support from to identify aliens. Havent seen any evidence of it though, so just an alien. Nothing they are doing is to towns wincon that I have seen.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 65#p618693 – prob wont respond because was just randomly throwing scum

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 50#p618832 – iso his posts and just skim them, do you agree with my summary or not?

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 50#p618853 – openly anti town. @Nutella, please send a cease and desist request

I know I've been your pet "suspect."

But there's something you should know about me.

When I'm bad, I never kill someone new Night 1. It's a rule I've adhered to as long as I can remember. I also don't vote someone new out Day 1. That's another one.

Moreover, I prefer to fool my prey rather than outright kill them if I can help that. It's more satisfying.

Now over and over you have bemoaned how people will think I'm good despite my "antitown" behavior. This information should point you in the direction that I'm a good guy.

If you are willing to concede those points and you still believe I'm bad, then it means I'm not the alpha dog in the mafia chatroom with Nine-post-Soneji and "Oh-hey-I-listened-to-your-music-Rej" (thanks for listening, [mention]Rej [/mention] by the way!). I've been present each period, so you can't argue I've been absent and needed teammates to submit the kill.

I seem to get you so upset that I went "maverick" as you called me. A "maverick" civilian has a protection to waste. An alien doesn't. I can't be both. I'm either a liar and you have no concern about me wasting protections, or I'm exactly what I say I am.

Can't be both, Slick.

[Alison]

Sorry Mac I think drago is scum for stuff entirely out of your control. Sorry you subbed into the wrong slot, it sucks


Semi related I’m saying 1.5 scum between Mac and bimbo

This post confused me. Nanook spent most of his time talking about mechanics prior to this, but comes out with a strong read on Dragomir scum in this post. Could be a reaction test, but... "1.5 scum between Mac and bimbo"? At the time, bimbo (Hally's slot) had no posts, so I'm just super confused why there was a relationship drawn between the slots or why a completely null slot is 50% to be a wolf.

75% actually, not 50

So why did you think there was a relationship between Mac and bimbo and why is a slot with 0 posts 75% to be wolf?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Sorry Mac I think drago is scum for stuff entirely out of your control. Sorry you subbed into the wrong slot, it sucks


Semi related I’m saying 1.5 scum between Mac and bimbo

This post confused me. Nanook spent most of his time talking about mechanics prior to this, but comes out with a strong read on Dragomir scum in this post. Could be a reaction test, but... "1.5 scum between Mac and bimbo"? At the time, bimbo (Hally's slot) had no posts, so I'm just super confused why there was a relationship drawn between the slots or why a completely null slot is 50% to be a wolf.

75% actually, not 50

So why did you think there was a relationship between Mac and bimbo and why is a slot with 0 posts 75% to be wolf?

I don’t think I’m allowed to talk about why I thought 1.5 between them, not 100% sure what the rules here are actually

As for the dragomac slot I thought drago slanking then subbing was kinda scummy.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Like if it's something like Proto/Mac, maybe they can do whatever the heck they want

If the wolf team is players who are deep in the towncore, you should not be like "let's roll over and accept this loss". You should be trying to find who the scum team area, whether or not they are well positioned.

I'm not rolling over, I am denoting this as an option that can have a no kill night.

[Epignosis]

I think I understand what Epi is trying to do here and if my theory is correct he's town

Found the reference. Can you share?

I assume this was answered, but in case not:

Since the conversation has moved on, I see no reason in saying my theory about Epignosis. I think he was trying to be intentionally provocative to try to squeeze some kind of reaction out of me. It would explain the rapid escalation of hostility as well as the weird hangup about me "judging" people despite doing the same thing himself. I thought it was just scummy at first, then I thought maybe it was a part of his personality, but the fact that he kept prodding and poking at me specifically eventually made me suspect that he was doing it as a reaction test of some kind. After I disengaged he moved onto wanting to shoot Mac instead of me and had a much calmer tone which makes me think I was right in suspecting this.

If this theory is correct, and I think it is, then Epi is a pretty solid townread of mine. Scum don't pull this kind of convoluted reaction test in general, and when they do they do it in order to get towncred, which was not what Epi did (since I realized what he was doing independently, without him pointing it out or otherwise trying to claim "credit" for it).

Well the fact is I'm not trying to do much of anything. I get drunk and say crazy things and let people dig their own graves and I figure things out in the morning. Write drunk, edit sober. I've been doing that for ages.

I don't suspect you either at this juncture. I'll just say that.

[Carotenoid]

Shoot I completely forgot to answer that sorry!
I'm gonna answer in the quote it feels less complicated.

Hmn okay I think protocultures is town.

Alison is still alien.

This is weird. Why bring me up? I wasn't involved in that conversation, I hadn't posted recently. Because for some reason many people townread and I just don't see why. It was a "hey don't forget that this person exist".I looked through your ISO to see if this was some progression of your read on me and noticed that in #634 you write "I feel like my reads haven't really changed and I'm not too sure what to think about that." In that very same post you interrogate me about my meta trawling of Dizzy and in #681 you say you directly feel that meta trawling, as well as my suspicion of Mac, were solid grounds to suspect me on. That doesn't jive with "my reads haven't changed, and I'm unsure how to feel about that" - it sounds to me like your read on me deepened greatly, and you feel sure and convicted of that.The keyword here is "really". This is either really nitpicky or deforming my words here. You're acting as if I said "hey my reads are exactly exactly exactly the same than before" when I was referring to a general/big picture that feels similar. Also like 681 comes after 634 so ??? what is the problem lol

In #1000 Mac asks you about your reads and you just go "still think Alison is alien". It's a very brief mention, but it also is phrased in such a way that it makes me think you hold basically the same views you had before. Did your opinion of me not develop at all in those hundreds of posts? For context, the portion of the thread where I meta trawl Dizzy and attack Mac was around #550. Are you really saying your opinion of someone you evidently consider to be your top (and only?) scumread has no changed for better or worse in 450 posts of content? Keyword here is that this is what makes *you* think of. You made that up. To answer your questions I don't really remember and 450 posts of content =/= 450 posts of content regarding you specifically so that's just irrelevant.

The progression of your read on me has felt extremely weird. You say the read on me has stayed mostly the same and that you're indecisive about it I'm pretty sure I was referring to general gamestate when I said that, then harshly attack me for the meta trawl and push on Mac I don't think I was that harsh but ok. Then you completely stagnate your read for 450 posts That would have been relevant if you did 450 posts, and then bring me up as a "oh by the way Alison is scum" completely out of the blue. Why haven't you been making more of an effort to push me hard and convince everyone I'm scum if you really scumread me that badly? Do you think "oh by the way Alison is scum" is likely to convince nutella to laser me if you really think I am scum? I don't understand any of your behavior regarding your stance on me tbh Don't you think I would push you more if I was scum?

Overall your case on me feels really "meh" and OMGUS.

ok, cut out 1) from my criticism of Carotte above, she did respond and I just didn't see because it was later on. Responses to her response:

a) I believe #634 is after the meta trawling that you claim you suspected me for. This isn't a nitpick - seeing the person you scumread most dig a hole for themselves/do something you consider openly scummy shouldn't merit a "I guess nothing has really changed" reaction You're acting as if I said "hey my reads are exactly exactly exactly the same than before" when I was referring to a general/big picture that feels similar. - it should lead to you actively going on the offense and trying to expose them, especially if people are townreading them for it. Alright you right should have pushed you more back then Everyone plays their own way and some players are more passive than others, but I'm having a hard time thinking of any town player who just sits back I did mention it so I didn't do nothing and goes "nothing has changed really, carry on" You're acting as if I said "hey my reads are exactly exactly exactly the same than before" when I was referring to a general/big picture that feels similar. when their top scumread is incriminating themselves in front of everyone's faces. It's the same issue I had with your "general vibe" push on me. There is a severe disconnect with the intensity of your push vs the alleged strength of your read. How is it that the most interaction/argument you have with the person you scumread the most comes about from them coming to you and asking you to justify your read, rather than you attacking them in the first place? That's because you're making stuff up to shade me. Also, PoE is a thing

b) "Oh I just meant something different" isn't a defence that's going to cut it. "Still think Alison is alien" is, on a plain reading, meaning that your read on Alison hasn't changed. That's what "still" means. If you meant something different from that, I expect you to explain what you meant and justify it, just like everyone else does. I meant I thought you're scum and that I still did. You said it was a problem because 450 posts happened and it should have somehow made my read change so it's really just an issue you made up. If by "still think Alison is an alien" you actually meant "my read on Alison has developed" - ok, so what has it developed to and why? Then you later offer a defense for stagnating your reads by saying "that 450 posts of content has nothing to do with you" - so you're defending the notion that your reads haven't changed, in which case why exactly are you criticizing for me interpreting your post as saying your reads haven't changed?Because you were not criticizing that my read didn't change, you criticized that my read didn't change despite the 450 posts, which is irrelevant.

[Epignosis]

I think I understand what Epi is trying to do here and if my theory is correct he's town

Found the reference. Can you share?

Found answer. You thought they were reaction checking you so you flipped your read of them to town. Epi then confirms they weren't doing anything of the sort. Why do you hold a townread on them?

"Epi then confirms"

[Carotenoid]

* Overall I dislike how Alison went from having like exactly 3 scumreads to townreading everyone to being nitpicky to shade people. That's the global vibe I get.

This is a very lazy push.

1) Where is your promised followup responding to my issues with your progression on me?
2) What exactly makes you think that going from 3 scumreads -> townreading everyone -> being nitpicky (I assume you're referring to the argument between me and LC here) is a scummy thing to do? If you townread everyone, wouldn't you be nitpicky and try to look for small signs of scum to see who's tricking you (because clearly there are no low hanging fruit wolves to be caught here)?
3) "Overall I dislike"... "that's the global vibe I get" is an extremely vague and low-effort way of attacking a player who is supposedly your strongest scumread and who you've been scumreading all game.

I did answer, keep catching-up

Do you have a response to 2) and 3) of this post?

Yes. I think you're right and that it's time that I build a case on you. I'm just busy and these take time so gahhh but I'll try to make that happen anyway.
Briefly:
2) As in going from finding people scummy to "ahhh shoot I need to have reads" to "ack I townread everyone"
3) true I have been low-efforing this