Jack Attack Mafia (Day 5)

[Epignosis]

I'm alive and all good!

Glad to hear it.

[Epignosis]

i don't think the kitsu is town case is believable, especially if they have experience playing the game. i'm all for derp clears and all, but i wouldn't derp clear her for that. js

I don't think anyone is "clearing" her. I see people saying she's not worth lynching Day 1 and I agree (not that I would advocate for that anyway).

[Epignosis]

Honestly, being ok with your death is probably the dumbest thing as any alignment, outside very special circumstances, especially on day 1, since for the most part, you know one thing, "your alignment"

so what information does it bring? does it point out mafia or town on their train? no, because we can find that out by other means, so all it is, is a waste and varying degrees of NAI or scummy. I am not going to even pretend to call it towny, cause it's not

I don't agree with that at all. As a vanilla civilian, I strive to draw a Night kill.

[DrWilgy]

I like LC's case.

[VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

how do you read lc?

I like his case. Saw an argument against LC being meta based regarding his frustration? I think that's NAI. That's pretty much all I got ta say about that.

[DrWilgy]

Hard meta call based entirely on the past 4 pages.

Nanook is bad.

[Epignosis]

if jays role is exactly as he claims it is—and this is obviously a big “if”—i think its always a town or maybe 3P role. mafia’s voting power is very important given their small numbers and i dont really believe a host would saddle one of their members with a role that requires them to vote where theyre told. nullifying the voting power of a mafia member is rarely done ime unless theres some catch to it

Can't a mafia member just tell JJJ the teammate what to do in that scenario?

[Millium]

I'll wait to see if Nanook falls off
I've decided to judge him based on how wrong he is or continues to be, same with JJJ

When I was saying things about Epi looking bad, "But meta."
Now I'm not interested, if Con knows Epi, then this push is worse, given everyone else's read on Epi's meta...
meh

[Millium]

if jays role is exactly as he claims it is—and this is obviously a big “if”—i think its always a town or maybe 3P role. mafia’s voting power is very important given their small numbers and i dont really believe a host would saddle one of their members with a role that requires them to vote where theyre told. nullifying the voting power of a mafia member is rarely done ime unless theres some catch to it

Can't a mafia member just tell JJJ the teammate what to do in that scenario?

the problem with his "role", is that we don't know if its real, but if its confirmed, its probably more like to be in the hands of town, because in a wolf slot it gates the mafia all for the sake of wifom?

[KitsuShel]

Quick question. What does NAI stand for?

[Epignosis]

Ah, here we are.

Spoiler: show

@Long Con what is your read on Epignosis?

Monday he was mostly mechanics and jokes. Questions Nanook's townlean on him, nothing much to work with.
Tuesday he calls you out for not posting... I think that happened in a recent game or something? Were you scum in that? I forget. Still pretty level 0 null read.
Throws a vote on Colin the nonposter, which doesn't really impress me with towniness, I guess it's an extension of the mindset that called you out earlier. Still mostly banter.
Town read on Nanook, pretty uncontroversial, some issue I have with all of Kitsu's reads.

Says Nanook is unlynchable on Day 1.

I don't like that. I don't know if town Epignosis just accepts someone being unlynchable, let alone proposes it. I expect an "I'll lynch anyone, any day, if I think they're bad, and if you don't like it, stick it" attitude from Epignosis, so this rings fake on a reread.

"Alison has a 23 posts to 0 instances of the word "pure" ratio." Half joke, half possibly-apt analysis. I like this post a little more than I disliked the last one.

His response to the sauces is okayish. Toe the party line on town reads, and question the ones with less aggressive early solving, maybe?

Questions FG's post in a pretty neutral way. Feels like he should have something more to say, or at least engage with it a little more. Is it an FG suspicion?

Tosses bad reads on low posters in GTH, the only mildly interesting call is his bad on FG, which I guess is based on the line above this one. More funnygurl shade soon follows, for posting but "saying nothing".

Then he votes for DrWilgy, which is, as I said yesterday when looking over Wilgy's meagre ISO, super-weak. What happened to the almost 100% funnygurl-only suspicion line? Was that just for w/w show?

Epignosis is not a town read.

Comments coming soon.

Spoiler: show

I don't put much stock in this exercise either, but LC has one "bad" and it's Kitsushel? Over Colin and Wilgy?

@Long Con please tell me about this post.

It appears that Epignosis believes, like the majority of the thread, that Kitsu is a clear townread, and that he thinks that Colin and Wilgy are better options for suspicion.

The issue I see with this post is that I asked him right away, "Why should I think Colin and Wilgy are bad?" and he didn't respond to it or try for further dialogue. That increases my suspicion of him.

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

He yelled obnoxiously about the concern I stated regarding his 9:1 good:bad GTH reads ratio. He has treated me like confirmed mafia and refused to budge a hair without talking to me on the level about any of it.

Epignosis ripped LC for the same 9:1 ratio. LC responded to that with a joke about KitsuShel’s username.

LC’s suspicion of me is fake. It is driven by an agenda to challenge me and disrupt the game state I have helped to construct.

First of all, Epignosis asked a question. He didn't even accuse me of anything or try to put suspicion on me. There is not much similarity between your two posts except that they both discuss my GTH results.

Second, I didn't just give the reason I badded KitsuShel, I directly asked Epignosis about his post in an attempt to engage him, and he didn't reply.

Third, there's nothing fake about anything I'm doing, and I do not have an agenda. You can't conceive of someone suspecting you without it being a big fake agenda. My reasons are out there very clearly.

Naw, I said my piece, NANOOK just reinforced what I claimed. I see it as bad. That my opinion. I’m keeping my vote here

Maybe I missed something but your vote is on yourself. What gives lad

That's a scumtell I've not seen for a long time... a long time.

A few words:

I never said "Nanook is unlynchable" or whatever.

This is what I said:

I think all three miller claims are town!

Council of millers ftw

I don't believe you believe this.

I don’t believe I care

Nanook is bad

Disagree.

nah you should definitely join this
I kept the seat warm for you

his combination of "trying to do stuff", and "meming"
just feels really gross

You must be new here.

Nanook isn't getting removed Day 1 even if he is bad.

I was asked about it and replied:

You must be new here.

Nanook isn't getting removed Day 1 even if he is bad.

Why not?

I've never seen it happen.

My statement was not one of judgement, but one of observation. And I had already said I thought Nanook was good.

"Tosses bad reads on low posters in GTH"

Hello "GTH on Day 1."

"Then he votes for DrWilgy, which is, as I said yesterday when looking over Wilgy's meagre ISO, super-weak. What happened to the almost 100% funnygurl-only suspicion line? Was that just for w/w show?"

My vote is in no way final.

I'm not responding to everything. If there's something specific you want from me, I'll speak about it. Moving on.

[Epignosis]

Quick question. What does NAI stand for?

"Not alignment indicative," meaning that it's "meaningless" for determining whether a person is good or bad/

[Epignosis]

@Epignosis im curious where you’re at with things atm

Page 33.

But seriously, I'll be with you in a moment with something more comprehensive. I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[Hally]

Hard meta call based entirely on the past 4 pages.

Nanook is bad.

why?

[Epignosis]

[VOTE: epi] aubergine

I'll follow this for now.

Why is Epi not in Jay's POE?

I suppose @JaggedJimmyJay

why are you following it? how do you read epi and lc?

both are probably around 35% wolf.

How did you arrive at this percentage?

[Hally]

if jays role is exactly as he claims it is—and this is obviously a big “if”—i think its always a town or maybe 3P role. mafia’s voting power is very important given their small numbers and i dont really believe a host would saddle one of their members with a role that requires them to vote where theyre told. nullifying the voting power of a mafia member is rarely done ime unless theres some catch to it

Can't a mafia member just tell JJJ the teammate what to do in that scenario?

theoretically yeah but its way more likely his vote gets controlled by town than scum at least early on just because of how many more town there are

this is all assuming its not a fake role btw

[Epignosis]

woooooooooooooooooooo look at that epi case

Tell me what parts you liked best about it.

[TonyStarkPrime]

[VOTE: epi] aubergine

I'll follow this for now.

Why is Epi not in Jay's POE?

I suppose @JaggedJimmyJay

why are you following it? how do you read epi and lc?

both are probably around 35% wolf.

How did you arrive at this percentage?

I looked at a table and then made up numbers

[TonyStarkPrime]

also the Epi case sucks

[TonyStarkPrime]

but I’m voting for Epi anyways

[Epignosis]

I like LC's case.

[VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

And what did you like about it?

[Spacedaisy]

but I’m voting for Epi anyways

Why?

[Hally]

also the Epi case sucks

but I’m voting for Epi anyways

[Epignosis]

Consolidating onto LC for now

Will hard shield Epi tbh

[Hally]

im very uninterested in yeeting epi tbh

[TonyStarkPrime]

but I’m voting for Epi anyways

Why?

I want to.

[Long Con]

if jays role is exactly as he claims it is—and this is obviously a big “if”—i think its always a town or maybe 3P role. mafia’s voting power is very important given their small numbers and i dont really believe a host would saddle one of their members with a role that requires them to vote where theyre told. nullifying the voting power of a mafia member is rarely done ime unless theres some catch to it

Can't a mafia member just tell JJJ the teammate what to do in that scenario?

theoretically yeah but its way more likely his vote gets controlled by town than scum at least early on just because of how many more town there are

this is all assuming its not a fake role btw

I don't think that it's JJJ's style to pull flaunty fake roleclaims when he's bad. I was bad with him recently, and I proposed a risky fakeclaim that directly challenged the actual owner of the role by pre-claiming it before he could. Jay was hesitant to commit to that plan, he's more comfortable and familiar with status quo straight play. My suspicion level of him decreases.

[Epignosis]

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

Why are you moving off LC?

Because the day phase is long and there are more players to solve. Voting is a part of making that happen.

When it comes to actually removing a player from the game, the only vote that matters is the last.

I'll give you a pass for this because I think town JJJ does genuinely hop his vote around to try to solve people but if your vote doesn't end up back on LC by EoD and he flips scum I will make it my personal mission to get you lynched

I don’t know if I am supposed to interpret this as a vote demand, but I’m not taking chances with my role. Refer to my very first post.

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

I thought you were joking.

You must know how much this tempts me so.

I don't believe that for a second. You don't have a chip on your shoulder regarding yeeting me.

I don't know what you're saying here.

[Spacedaisy]

but I’m voting for Epi anyways

Why?

I want to.

Ok then

[Millium]

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention]
are you open wolfing?
also you arent voting Epi

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epignosis what is your take on Long Con?

[Hally]

if jays role is exactly as he claims it is—and this is obviously a big “if”—i think its always a town or maybe 3P role. mafia’s voting power is very important given their small numbers and i dont really believe a host would saddle one of their members with a role that requires them to vote where theyre told. nullifying the voting power of a mafia member is rarely done ime unless theres some catch to it

Can't a mafia member just tell JJJ the teammate what to do in that scenario?

theoretically yeah but its way more likely his vote gets controlled by town than scum at least early on just because of how many more town there are

this is all assuming its not a fake role btw

I don't think that it's JJJ's style to pull flaunty fake roleclaims when he's bad. I was bad with him recently, and I proposed a risky fakeclaim that directly challenged the actual owner of the role by pre-claiming it before he could. Jay was hesitant to commit to that plan, he's more comfortable and familiar with status quo straight play. My suspicion level of him decreases.

well if maf were given fake roles to claim its not risky to claim that role

i dont think jay is maf anyway though

[Epignosis]

Hard meta call based entirely on the past 4 pages.

Nanook is bad.

Hard disagree.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I continue to feel great about the state of the game. I am comfortable with my civilian reads; indeed that is only becoming more true as Day 1 progresses.

My clear POE pool remains: ColinIsCool, DrWilgy, sprityo, Long Con, and Funnygurl555. I said earlier in the phase that my goal was a pool of seven, so I have room for two more on the tinfoil side. I’d look first to Alison and TonyStarkPrime for that “tier”.

Anyone who has severe misgivings about this arrangement (ideally beyond “I’m on the list, how dare you”) should speak up.

Jay is checking off all of the boxes on the classically scum list. It makes me... uncomfortable.

what

[Long Con]

Why are you moving off LC?

Because the day phase is long and there are more players to solve. Voting is a part of making that happen.

When it comes to actually removing a player from the game, the only vote that matters is the last.

I'll give you a pass for this because I think town JJJ does genuinely hop his vote around to try to solve people but if your vote doesn't end up back on LC by EoD and he flips scum I will make it my personal mission to get you lynched

I don’t know if I am supposed to interpret this as a vote demand, but I’m not taking chances with my role. Refer to my very first post.

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

I thought you were joking.

You must know how much this tempts me so.

I don't believe that for a second. You don't have a chip on your shoulder regarding yeeting me.

I don't know what you're saying here.

I mean, you're not eagerly waiting for the Big Chance To Yeet Long Con. Is that not the temptation of which you speak?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Jay, why did you bring up your role at all?

[Epignosis]

im very uninterested in yeeting epi tbh

You'd probably throw out your back trying.

[Hally]

Why are you moving off LC?

Because the day phase is long and there are more players to solve. Voting is a part of making that happen.

When it comes to actually removing a player from the game, the only vote that matters is the last.

I'll give you a pass for this because I think town JJJ does genuinely hop his vote around to try to solve people but if your vote doesn't end up back on LC by EoD and he flips scum I will make it my personal mission to get you lynched

I don’t know if I am supposed to interpret this as a vote demand, but I’m not taking chances with my role. Refer to my very first post.

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

I thought you were joking.

You must know how much this tempts me so.

I don't believe that for a second. You don't have a chip on your shoulder regarding yeeting me.

I don't know what you're saying here.

lc misunderstood what you were saying. he thought your comment was re: jays vote on him, not jays role in general

[Long Con]

if jays role is exactly as he claims it is—and this is obviously a big “if”—i think its always a town or maybe 3P role. mafia’s voting power is very important given their small numbers and i dont really believe a host would saddle one of their members with a role that requires them to vote where theyre told. nullifying the voting power of a mafia member is rarely done ime unless theres some catch to it

Can't a mafia member just tell JJJ the teammate what to do in that scenario?

theoretically yeah but its way more likely his vote gets controlled by town than scum at least early on just because of how many more town there are

this is all assuming its not a fake role btw

I don't think that it's JJJ's style to pull flaunty fake roleclaims when he's bad. I was bad with him recently, and I proposed a risky fakeclaim that directly challenged the actual owner of the role by pre-claiming it before he could. Jay was hesitant to commit to that plan, he's more comfortable and familiar with status quo straight play. My suspicion level of him decreases.

well if maf were given fake roles to claim its not risky to claim that role

i dont think jay is maf anyway though

That is right... I could see that role coming from Jack. I was imagining it from Jay's playbook, and it didn't compute.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay, why did you bring up your role at all?

Alison had just [deliberately or not] ordered me to place a vote. I wanted to make it clear to 1) anyone that didn't see my claim already and 2) any would-be trolls, overconfident civilians, or mafia that deliberate abuse of my crippled role would be met with severe repercussions.

I can literally have my voting agency stolen from me. That's a majorly shitty thing, and I am not letting anyone forget it's there.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That is right... I could see that role coming from Jack. I was imagining it from Jay's playbook, and it didn't compute.

I claimed it in my first post. Where was this perspective before?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Jay, why did you bring up your role at all?

Alison had just [deliberately or not] ordered me to place a vote. I wanted to make it clear to 1) anyone that didn't see my claim already and 2) any would-be trolls, overconfident civilians, or mafia that deliberate abuse of my crippled role would be met with severe repercussions.

I can literally have my voting agency stolen from me. That's a majorly shitty thing, and I am not letting anyone forget it's there.

No, why did you bring it up in the first place?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay, why did you bring up your role at all?

Alison had just [deliberately or not] ordered me to place a vote. I wanted to make it clear to 1) anyone that didn't see my claim already and 2) any would-be trolls, overconfident civilians, or mafia that deliberate abuse of my crippled role would be met with severe repercussions.

I can literally have my voting agency stolen from me. That's a majorly shitty thing, and I am not letting anyone forget it's there.

No, why did you bring it up in the first place?

All it takes is someone casually saying to me "you should vote for X", and my role is publicly triggered. I'm not setting myself up to have to claim my role after I've already been stuck obeying it -- that creates unnecessary doubts that I don't think would be healthy for this town. I'm laying it out in my first post much like a miller would. I value transparency.

[Hally]

its always the right play for town roles like miller and whatever jay has to claim upfront. it leads to too much confusion otherwise. if jay is town and claiming his real role, doing it right away was the correct move

[Epignosis]

Epignosis what is your take on Long Con?

Would lynch.

Long Con isn't trying to figure me out. That big ass post (that everybody keeps calling a "case") is a bunch of observations, some of which are wrong, and I showed as much. I would understand his issue with being treated in a polar opposite way as Kitsu, but LC wants to harp on "I play differently and you aren't respecting that people play differently," which is horse manure. Nanook, Wisp, and (to lesser extent) I all go about this thing differently than say JJJ or Hally or

waves hand in the air to provide another name.

LC looks caught to me.

He has plenty of votes though, and I have time after supper to consider the other side of the coin.

[Epignosis]

Because the day phase is long and there are more players to solve. Voting is a part of making that happen.

When it comes to actually removing a player from the game, the only vote that matters is the last.

I'll give you a pass for this because I think town JJJ does genuinely hop his vote around to try to solve people but if your vote doesn't end up back on LC by EoD and he flips scum I will make it my personal mission to get you lynched

I don’t know if I am supposed to interpret this as a vote demand, but I’m not taking chances with my role. Refer to my very first post.

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

I thought you were joking.

You must know how much this tempts me so.

I don't believe that for a second. You don't have a chip on your shoulder regarding yeeting me.

I don't know what you're saying here.

I mean, you're not eagerly waiting for the Big Chance To Yeet Long Con. Is that not the temptation of which you speak?

The notion of just telling JJJ to vote someone different every 37 seconds is the temptation of which I speak.

[DrWilgy]

I like LC's case.

[VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

And what did you like about it?

His reads sound like they come from a real place. If the "Nanook is unlynchable d1" thing is a true statement and was left at that, then I don't see that coming from a civ mindset. The notion shuts down discussion of potential suspects.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It appears that Epignosis believes, like the majority of the thread, that Kitsu is a clear townread, and that he thinks that Colin and Wilgy are better options for suspicion.

The issue I see with this post is that I asked him right away, "Why should I think Colin and Wilgy are bad?" and he didn't respond to it or try for further dialogue. That increases my suspicion of him.

---

Second, I didn't just give the reason I badded KitsuShel, I directly asked Epignosis about his post in an attempt to engage him, and he didn't reply.

Responses to these points, Epignosis?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I like LC's case.

[VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

And what did you like about it?

His reads sound like they come from a real place. If the "Nanook is unlynchable d1" thing is a true statement and was left at that, then I don't see that coming from a civ mindset. The notion shuts down discussion of potential suspects.

I like LC's case.

[VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

how do you read lc?

I like his case. Saw an argument against LC being meta based regarding his frustration? I think that's NAI. That's pretty much all I got ta say about that.

Is Long Con a civilian?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Hard meta call based entirely on the past 4 pages.

Nanook is bad.

Hard disagree.

Channeling your inner Nanook to defend Nanook. I laughed.


Going back to sleep now hopefully, keep on keeping on.


Oh and someone make sure to tell jay to vote whomever he wants to vote right before he leaves for the day, I don’t want his agency stolen.

[Millium]

[mention]Long Con[/mention]
whats your thoughts on kitsu again?