Jack Attack Mafia (Day 5)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'll be around, still at work, and focusing on another game for a bit
Don't touch Long Con please

Cool with me at the moment. Pawn's my first priority.

[Hally]

why pawn in particular?

[TonyStarkPrime]

do poll titles usually carry such significance here?

let me tell you a mafia story. One time I was eleven, and we had just dealt out the cards assigned for mafia. It was a night start, so mafia (let's say player 8) killed someone (let's say player 7), and we woke up to the introductory flavor. In the introductory flavor, I presented in some detail how the mafia had plans to kill all of players 1-6. Then I killed player 7 and opened the day. Immediately:
Player 1: "so [player 8]'s the wolf, right"
Me: "okay redeal"

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I was kinda hoping to die. I am swamped with work and cannot keep spending so much time in this game. It could probably use some space without my spamming anyway. I am going to step away for a bit and let this thing develop.

[Spacedaisy]

I'll be around, still at work, and focusing on another game for a bit
Don't touch Long Con please

Why?

[KitsuShel]

Have any of you ever read 100 Bullets? I’m guessing not, because I’m 99% certain that the first boul was Jack Daws.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

why pawn in particular?

I had zero reasons to trust sprityo and at least non-zero reasons to suspect him. Pawn has not done anything to improve that dynamic. Every time I look at my POE group, my eyes divert to that slot.

[Hally]

do poll titles usually carry such significance here?

let me tell you a mafia story. One time I was eleven, and we had just dealt out the cards assigned for mafia. It was a night start, so mafia (let's say player 8) killed someone (let's say player 7), and we woke up to the introductory flavor. In the introductory flavor, I presented in some detail how the mafia had plans to kill all of players 1-6. Then I killed player 7 and opened the day. Immediately:
Player 1: "so [player 8]'s the wolf, right"
Me: "okay redeal"

lol

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Tony I have no idea what your character claim is.

[TonyStarkPrime]

pawn's just probably an easy enough poe spot.

[Hally]

Have any of you ever read 100 Bullets? I’m guessing not, because I’m 99% certain that the first boul was Jack Daws.

huh

[Spacedaisy]

I'll be around, still at work, and focusing on another game for a bit
Don't touch Long Con please

Cool with me at the moment. Pawn's my first priority.

Also why is Pawn your first priority?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Tony I have no idea what your character claim is.

anime jack the ripper. that's all.

[Hally]

why pawn in particular?

I had zero reasons to trust sprityo and at least non-zero reasons to suspect him. Pawn has not done anything to improve that dynamic. Every time I look at my POE group, my eyes divert to that slot.

ah ok

[Epignosis]

I'm saying that if LC's thing with you didn't exist in the game, I would read you as town. But LC's thing does exist, so I read you as scum with LC. But I can't be sure LC himself is scum (although I think the probability is high), so it makes sense to me to sort LC first and then look at his associatives with you with a fresh eye. My read on you is not "null". It is "in limbo while LC is alive".

I don't get the impression you're trying to develop a read on me, and instead you're just saddling responsibility for my alignment on Long Con. Worse, you're hinging that association on one outburst made by one person. If Long Con is a mafioso, then you are playing directly into his hands by allowing what was his exclusively his own behavior to dictate your read on me. What do you think of the rest of the interaction between Long Con and I?

I have no reason to develop a read on you because I really just think you'll self resolve once LC flips. Even if you disagree with this I think it makes total sense for me to come back and think about your alignment after I know LC's alignment and can read your interactions with that knowledge, rather than thinking "what does this mean if LC is town? and what does it mean if LC is scum" for every word he and you write. I just have no interest in you right now sorry.

I doubt wolf!LC intended to get themselves killed and flipped. It's possible they came at you in a very "bussy" way to cast shade on you if they ever flipped but this seems like drawing attention to themselves for no reason. At any rate even if that's the case I'm not just going to hard tunnel you the moment LC flips wolf, I'm going to actually go through your interactions and re-read them and think about what alignment you are. So unless LC's plan was for me to read the game and think about what alignment you are then I doubt I'm playing into his hands.

That's bullshit.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Have any of you ever read 100 Bullets? I’m guessing not, because I’m 99% certain that the first boul was Jack Daws.

also something I'd bet good money jack would be familiar with.
this probably doesn't matter since town fake claims exist

[Epignosis]

I'm saying that if LC's thing with you didn't exist in the game, I would read you as town. But LC's thing does exist, so I read you as scum with LC. But I can't be sure LC himself is scum (although I think the probability is high), so it makes sense to me to sort LC first and then look at his associatives with you with a fresh eye. My read on you is not "null". It is "in limbo while LC is alive".

I don't get the impression you're trying to develop a read on me, and instead you're just saddling responsibility for my alignment on Long Con. Worse, you're hinging that association on one outburst made by one person. If Long Con is a mafioso, then you are playing directly into his hands by allowing what was his exclusively his own behavior to dictate your read on me. What do you think of the rest of the interaction between Long Con and I?

I have no reason to develop a read on you because I really just think you'll self resolve once LC flips. Even if you disagree with this I think it makes total sense for me to come back and think about your alignment after I know LC's alignment and can read your interactions with that knowledge, rather than thinking "what does this mean if LC is town? and what does it mean if LC is scum" for every word he and you write. I just have no interest in you right now sorry.

I doubt wolf!LC intended to get themselves killed and flipped. It's possible they came at you in a very "bussy" way to cast shade on you if they ever flipped but this seems like drawing attention to themselves for no reason. At any rate even if that's the case I'm not just going to hard tunnel you the moment LC flips wolf, I'm going to actually go through your interactions and re-read them and think about what alignment you are. So unless LC's plan was for me to read the game and think about what alignment you are then I doubt I'm playing into his hands.

I'm sorry, that's bullshit too.

[Long Con]

So ends the short and tumultuous saga of Jack "funnygurl" Sparrow.

Thanks for believing in me.

why do you say the last line if you dont know she was town?

Because whether I was getting pocketed or not, it meant something to me that at least someone believed in me. I wasn't thinking about her alignment when I type that last night, I was thinking she was dead and there is no better time to say it.

[Alison]

On Day 1 it's easy to see whom people say is good and whom people say is bad. Alison "coaching" people Night 1 in such a longwinded way looks like fishing.

What am I fishing for Epi? I make that post, 5 people who think they're gonna be nightkilled drop their reads list. What do I gain as scum?

[Long Con]

"Who killed Nanook and FG?"

suggests we should be voting for the source(s) of both deaths

I think it is vague enough to be interpreted in multiple ways. It could mean one entity or team killed them both, or it could mean that two different people killed them, why do you automatically interpret it as too?

[KitsuShel]

Have any of you ever read 100 Bullets? I’m guessing not, because I’m 99% certain that the first boul was Jack Daws.

also something I'd bet good money jack would be familiar with.
this probably doesn't matter since town fake claims exist

I know him from HCRealms, which is a HeroClix forum, which was mainly comic book based for the first decade. So yeah, I’d definitely say 100 Bullets has a hella strong chance of being in Jack’s wheelhouse.

[Long Con]

Two, sorry voice to text

[Hally]

i hate how i said fg should get vig’d so we have her flip and then she didnt flip

i want a refund

[Epignosis]

POE is not "slow burn". POE murders mafia on Days 1 all the time.

Let me put it in a simpler manner.

To me, gamesolving = catching and killing scum.

You have been more focused on finding town and building rapport and trust with them than in directly catching and killing scum. This may have the pleasant effect of helping to kill scum, but it is not, by itself, killing scum.

Therefore, when I say, "JJJ is not gamesolving", I mean "JJJ does not have the intent of killing scum right now". In a vacuum this is scummy, because I generally expect townies to try to do both things, not just one.

There are two things that make this not-scummy in the context of this game. Firstly, you have a well-established meta of doing these things as town because you believe it is the best way to play the game. I am uninterested in debating whether it is the best way to play the game in general - the only important thing to me is that you believe it is. Secondly, I believe that this game happens to be particularly well-positioned for your strategy. In other words, focusing primarily on building a towncore is a stronger strategy than usual because the game has a bunch of townie-ish people who all roughly townread each other to some degree or another and a bunch of distrusted people who everyone (more or less) think is sketchy. This means that it is by definition less scummy to focus only on one of the things town should be doing, because that thing happens to be very productive for town this game.

You are shitting JJJ while also excusing yourself from shitting on him.

[Alison]

On Day 1 it's easy to see whom people say is good and whom people say is bad. Alison "coaching" people Night 1 in such a longwinded way looks like fishing.

im not sure i follow

fishing how?

Meaning "we haven't decided on a Night kill, so let's fish for a good one."

I've hosted a lot, and I've seen plenty of mafia do it.

believe me, if I was scum here I'd just immediately shoot one of the people who's widely townread. There's quite a few of them this game, so very easy to decide.

[TonyStarkPrime]

alternatively, who out of poe is the least likely to be turned on once the poe breaks down

[Alison]

You are shitting JJJ while also excusing yourself from shitting on him.

Not really. I'm pointing out what he has/hasn't done as objective fact whilst explaining my read of him based on that

[KitsuShel]

"Who killed Nanook and FG?"

suggests we should be voting for the source(s) of both deaths

I think it is vague enough to be interpreted in multiple ways. It could mean one entity or team killed them both, or it could mean that two different people killed them, why do you automatically interpret it as too?

I definitely think that it was 2 different killers. The flavor and aesthetic seem different.

[Hally]

i never understood the idea of “wolves need people to post reads lists so they know who to kill”

wolves arent stupid, they can read. they already know which players are widely town read and good kills

[Epignosis]

As I scour Epi's posts, the easiest case I can find for his being a mafioso is as Nanook's teammate.

That's a good thing. Nanook is a civilian.

I don't think Epi/nanook is the team if Epi is mafia, no. I don't understand why Epi can't be mafia with people that aren't nanook though.

Like he really has done nothing if you look at his posts. IMO if you're going to jam people who've done nothing into your POE (which is fine given the state of the game), you should also not TR Epi this hard.

Maybe I skimmed over a page where Epi did some serious gamesolving? Feel free to highlight it to me if you feel that's the case.

I've done nothing? Jesus.

[Long Con]

"Who killed Nanook and FG?"

suggests we should be voting for the source(s) of both deaths

I totally agree, I just want to understand what he got out of the poll title that I'm not seeing.
I think it is vague enough to be interpreted in multiple ways. It could mean one entity or team killed them both, or it could mean that two different people killed them, why do you automatically interpret it as too?

I definitely think that it was 2 different killers. The flavor and aesthetic seem different.

[Millium]

[mention]Alison[/mention]
LONG CON IS TOWN, now what?
Sorry I didn't mean to post in capts lol

[Alison]

Can someone explain why either Wisp or Hally are town?

Hally is floating on an early day 1 claim of what appears to be a town theme before anyone else could say anything. Wisp is a general read via meta translated in from Nanook plus some micro stuff

how do you know millers is a town theme tony?

[Epignosis]

As I scour Epi's posts, the easiest case I can find for his being a mafioso is as Nanook's teammate.

That's a good thing. Nanook is a civilian.

I don't think Epi/nanook is the team if Epi is mafia, no. I don't understand why Epi can't be mafia with people that aren't nanook though.

He "can" in that the word "can" refers to all of the things in the universe that are "possible". I mean that Nanook was the most visible connection that appeared compatible, and given that I don't think Nanook is a mafioso this reflects well on Epignosis. If time permits tonight I may expand my previous blind interactions to account for everyone else including Epi.

seems weird to scumread me for my "associative" reads and then go "epi is probably town because the most likely scum buddy for epi to have is nanook and nanook is town"

but also this logic doesn't even make sense. Like let's say we think that Epi has 20% chance to be partnered with nanook if he is indeed scum and 15% chance to be partnered with the next-highest percent. Why can't we be living in that 15% world? It's not that unlikely. For the chances of Epi/nanook not being the case to significantly affect your read on Epi, you have to really be sure that Epi is very likely to be scum with nanook if he is scum. Like 60/20 instead of 20/15. Then maybe it makes sense.

You're making up numbers instead of trying to figure me out. You're mafia.

[Long Con]

i never understood the idea of “wolves need people to post reads lists so they know who to kill”

wolves arent stupid, they can read. they already know which players are widely town read and good kills

I agree with this. The idea of fishing is something I've never seen on a mafia team.

[TonyStarkPrime]

i never understood the idea of “wolves need people to post reads lists so they know who to kill”

wolves arent stupid, they can read. they already know which players are widely town read and good kills

I think I agree but like also. It's still weird.

[Hally]

i never understood the idea of “wolves need people to post reads lists so they know who to kill”

wolves arent stupid, they can read. they already know which players are widely town read and good kills

I think I agree but like also. It's still weird.

i dont think its weird at all to want the towniest voices to post a legacy before we die?

[TonyStarkPrime]

i never understood the idea of “wolves need people to post reads lists so they know who to kill”

wolves arent stupid, they can read. they already know which players are widely town read and good kills

I think I agree but like also. It's still weird.

i dont think its weird at all to want the towniest voices to post a legacy before we die?

i hate janitors

[Alison]

Complete Blind Interactions

Spoiler: show

Quick notes as time is short:

My primary takeaway from this is that the players generally being trusted the most are also difficult to place on coherent mafia teams. That tells me that the collective effort to form a strong core group and play process of elimination has been effective, and that we aren't in a place where paranoia is wise. There are some isolated "orange" blocks speckled about the non-POE space; this doesn't mean those interactions do or should supersede the POE pool. These are things to be mindful of if the game ever demands it later, and to investigate for yourselves to sort your own feelings. Also note that when there is less content to assess, "yellow" blocks become inherently more likely -- there is simply less material to help me make a determination. This is why you see a lot of that for players like sabie and Spacedaisy.

Stay the course.

This chart is super confusing to me. Why am I green with LC? Do you not think a bus is possible with the way I attacked him? How does a bunch of towncore players having yellow all over support your conclusion that towncore can't be mafia? I don't understand how you made this chart or how you drew the conclusions you drew from it

[Epignosis]

POE is not "slow burn". POE murders mafia on Days 1 all the time.

And loses the game on The Syndicate always in 2020.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This chart is super confusing to me. Why am I green with LC? Do you not think a bus is possible with the way I attacked him? How does a bunch of towncore players having yellow all over support your conclusion that towncore can't be mafia? I don't understand how you made this chart or how you drew the conclusions you drew from it

Explaining these blocks in detail would require me to completely drown the thread in myself. I will refrain. I can speak to any individual intersection if asked though, like you and Long Con. The most telling moment of your interaction to me that I think looks separable was when Long Con said this:

Honestly, most of my posts don't get read. If I want people to vote for you, a little extra is sometimes needed.

Do you genuinely think that people are more likely to read your posts when you use a lot of all caps and post walls of text about how JJJ is definitely scum?

I think you know very well that people just skim over the specifics of posts like that and just leave with the general impression that LC was violently attacking JJJ without thinking too deep about the details of how and why it happened. Which is why I'm starting to suspect that it is W/W.

I'll take it. Lynch him first though.

This doesn't look like Long Con dealing with his own mafia teammate. If he is a mafioso here, he is trying to haggle his continued lifespan with someone not on his team who needs convincing.

[Alison]

Jay is riding this towncore-POE stuff too hard because he knows it gets applause from the upper class. Becauuuuuuse he's a wolf!

hard disagree

nanook and JJJ have espoused the sentiment a couple of times that people on this site don't like the towncore + POE strategy and prefer to go cowboy and I think it's largely true.

but also it seems pretty clear that JJJ is just a massive fan of this strategy in general so no clue how you are differentiating between normal JJJ and overdoing it as wolf JJJ

[JaggedJimmyJay]

POE is not "slow burn". POE murders mafia on Days 1 all the time.

And loses the game on The Syndicate always in 2020.

Folks need to be more vigilant later in games.

[Long Con]

Jay is riding this towncore-POE stuff too hard because he knows it gets applause from the upper class. Becauuuuuuse he's a wolf!

hard disagree

nanook and JJJ have espoused the sentiment a couple of times that people on this site don't like the towncore + POE strategy and prefer to go cowboy and I think it's largely true.

but also it seems pretty clear that JJJ is just a massive fan of this strategy in general so no clue how you are differentiating between normal JJJ and overdoing it as wolf JJJ

Experience.

[Hally]

my immediate poe for today is

colin
wilgy
pawn

[Epignosis]

@Alison
LONG CON IS TOWN, now what?
Sorry I didn't mean to post in capts lol

Explain this to me.

LONG CON IS TOWN, now what?

"Sorry I didn't mean to post in capts lol"

Here on the Syndicate, we have a feature that allows you to preview your posts, and if someone posts before you, you get held up.

I would love to know how in the same damn post you did ALL CAPS and apologized for all caps.

[Hally]

i believe wisp

not touching lc today or maybe ever

[Hally]

[VOTE: drwilgy] aubergine

[Epignosis]

i believe wisp

not touching lc today or maybe ever

What do you believe Wisp about?

[Long Con]

i believe wisp

not touching lc today or maybe ever

Hey don't try to predict what happens on tequila night around here