Jack Attack Mafia (Day 5)

[Hally]

ok if thats true theres no way thats a scum role lmao

[TonyStarkPrime]

I understand why. But like. You allow your role to be taken advantage of as quickly as possible for no discernable value.

My role has no discernible value. It is explicitly crippled. If I have to go off explaining it later in a game then people like TonyStarkPrime think I'm a bullshitter and I just don't want to deal with that. That's not healthy for the civilian faction.

I mean I'm gonna think that anyways. I think the way you've played it makes sense. But you'll forgive me if I don't... quite... believe you. I don't really know what else to do with your role as claimed.

[Hally]

it honestly does seem fake in the sense of like... why does it exist

but like... how could that be made up

[TonyStarkPrime]

Like. I get your logic. I think it's in profile for you too. But understand that if anyone else did it this way I'd probably be voting for them right now.

[Hally]

it could be a fake claim ig but i see no reason to care about that rn

jay is townish on play

[Hally]

Like. I get your logic. I think it's in profile for you too. But understand that if anyone else did it this way I'd probably be voting for them right now.

id do the same as jay ftr

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Non-zero chance it was designed specifically for me.

Anyway I don't want to speculate. It's my role. I claimed it. I'm Supertown Jimmy. I don't have to do what y'all tell me because you'll do what I tell you.

[TonyStarkPrime]

so if someone gives you an order right before EOD and you miss it what happens

[TonyStarkPrime]

not that I want to get you modkilled, but

[Hally]

so if someone gives you an order right before EOD and you miss it what happens

literally was just thinking this

i assume he has to have had a reasonably chance to act on it in order to be penalized

[TonyStarkPrime]

do you just have to obey the most recent command?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

so if someone gives you an order right before EOD and you miss it what happens

Host's whims I guess. I don't want to speculate about Jack.

If that happens and I explode, be sure to murder whoever did that to me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

do you just have to obey the most recent command?

Yes.

It is anti-town to keep talking about this. Stop please.

[TonyStarkPrime]

so if someone gives you an order right before EOD and you miss it what happens

Host's whims I guess. I don't want to speculate about Jack.

If that happens and I explode, be sure to murder whoever did that to me.

[Alison]

Y'all know what we need?

It's Exercise Time. Everyone get out your sweat bands and change into your tanktops. We're about to get sweaty.

It's a Trustfall

Please, if you would, copy this player list into a post (or quote it). Then, for each player listed, indicate briefly what you feel are the best reasons you can think of to call that player a civilian.

ColinIsCool
Long Con
TonyStarkPrime
DrWilgy
Spacedaisy
Wisp
KitsuShel
sabie12
Epignosis
Alison
JaggedJimmyJay
Hally
sprityo/Pawn Lelouch

my quota for indulging in exercises I don't believe in has been reached this game

really though this takes a lot of effort and I feel like half the results are going to be forced because you're trying to positive bias your responses

[Alison]

Counter to the vigilante argument:

Nobody has claimed it

if I was town vigilante here I wouldn't claim it, fyi

[Alison]

Does ColinIsCool know JaggedJimmyJay's alignment?

Spoiler: show

I don’t believe it’s W/W

Long Con comes from an older generation of mafia in this community. We come from the same mafia background. It’s my experience that he tends to protect teammates rather than call attention to them.

I think it’s either a genuine town rage or he’s a wolf who is overreacting about something that I don’t think many of us were thinking much about.

Does this post TMI Jay to be town or nah

JJJ - seems like a duh at this moment

I continue to feel great about the state of the game. I am comfortable with my civilian reads; indeed that is only becoming more true as Day 1 progresses.

My clear POE pool remains: ColinIsCool, DrWilgy, sprityo, Long Con, and Funnygurl555. I said earlier in the phase that my goal was a pool of seven, so I have room for two more on the tinfoil side. I’d look first to Alison and TonyStarkPrime for that “tier”.

Anyone who has severe misgivings about this arrangement (ideally beyond “I’m on the list, how dare you”) should speak up.

Jay is checking off all of the boxes on the classically scum list. It makes me... uncomfortable.

what

Yeah this was a weird post for me too.

Whatever our setup preferences, let's try to refrain from groaning about the setup. That's never fun for a host to read. We all come from different backgrounds and are accustomed to different norms.

Anyone is always free to send a PM to Sloonei though with grievances. He's our moderator on duty.

Jay, vote for ... whoever you want

is this a real question

Yes.

Do you have any general theory of the game, or are you just spouting random takes to maintain some image of involvement?

This latter portion of the post describes my feelings toward Tony and I might vote there.

If you’re scum bub I’m probably not catching you so have fun.

let's execute this

[Alison]

Epi and Pawn are both mafia. He doesn’t give a shit until I bring Pawn up and the suddenly he’s worth defending.

idk if epi and pawn are both mafia but I think "alison is more worthy of being executed than pawn" is not a valid take under any metric and town epi should be smart enough to know this

maybe nanook was wrong

[Alison]

Epi’s fine.

I don’t agree about Pawn though.

?

[Alison]

Nanook wasn’t shot. He was cut up. Sounds malicious and overkill, which is part of what JTR was known for.

nanook's kill flavor (being pinned to a wall by a pair of scissors with BLOODLUST written over him) is in line with the MO of "Genocide Jack", a character from Danganronpa

[Alison]

Kill in the POE pool flips or not, I think.

really? i kinda want to see flips in the poe pool

Flips are certainly preferable. If the civilians were giving killing power though, then the balance of the game is designed with that in mind. Refusing to use it does not strike me as wise. If the POE pool is slaughtered and the game isn't over, we proceed accordingly.

agree with this (and this is why I wouldn't claim if I was town vig, I want to use my KP, not die at night)

[Alison]

For those still concerned about Epignosis, I think your best bet is to review his ISO with a specific objective: determine who would fit as his mafia teammates. When I reviewed them all in speed mode at EON1 (link), I determined he could be a compatible teammate of seven players:

ColinIsCool
Pawnyo -- these two are in the POE, and are co-compatible. So technically Epignosis, Colin, Pawnyo is a plausible team.
Spacedaisy
Wisp
Kitsu
sabie12 -- fitting with these players is irrelevant if they're civilians.
Nanook

If the team isn't exactly Epignosis/Pawn/Colin, then it's more difficult to see a mafioso in Epi. If any among you investigate for yourselves you may feel differently. I think this is ideal though as opposed to the vaguer notions of suspicion with which he has been cased for the most part.

This is an extremely bad way of sorting people but also Pawn and Colin are in the POE so I'm not really sure why this makes you townread Epi

In conclusion I think you should sort Epi by looking at what he does not by speculating about what scum teams he could or couldn't be in since that is shaky and unreliable.

I think Epi is the scummiest player outside of the POE I provided because of his extremely weird push on me and defense of Pawn after coming back to the thread. I want to respect nanook's legacy but I think it may just be wrong here

[Alison]

it could be a fake claim ig but i see no reason to care about that rn

jay is townish on play

agree with this

[Alison]

lock town tier: wisp, hally, SD, LC

obvtown tier: kitsu, sabie, JJJ

suspicious but probably not the kill for today tier: TSP, epi

kill today: pawn, wilgy, colin

colin is the most suspicious because I think the "if you're scum I'm not catching you so have fun" post was extremely bad

[Alison]

I didn't intend to order the tiers but upon looking at the readslist it is coincidentally already ordered

[Alison]

If anyone disagrees with me or thinks I have a serious chance of being mafia I encourage you to come to me and tell me why.

If nobody disagrees with me then we should just shoot in the POE that I and everyone else seem to agree on. I really think this day has been immensely unproductive after the roleclaim (apart from a few posts that made me adjust people's positions on my reads list) because a lot of it has been just speculation on flavor and repetition of established reads. This is tedious and makes it pointlessly difficult to catch up so I would prefer to see less of this content going forward unless you really think it helps your solving for some reason.

[TonyStarkPrime]

If anyone disagrees with me or thinks I have a serious chance of being mafia I encourage you to come to me and tell me why.

If nobody disagrees with me then we should just shoot in the POE that I and everyone else seem to agree on. I really think this day has been immensely unproductive after the roleclaim (apart from a few posts that made me adjust people's positions on my reads list) because a lot of it has been just speculation on flavor and repetition of established reads. This is tedious and makes it pointlessly difficult to catch up so I would prefer to see less of this content going forward unless you really think it helps your solving for some reason.

I don't think it's immensely helpful but really we should have just taken some time before early claims day 2 to deal with write ups. That would have helped.

[Alison]

It's sufficiently tedious that I'm dashing out posts in a more concise/stream of consciousness way than properly formatting stuff because I cbf to properly format my responses when it seems like a lot of the content generated in the thread isn't really relevant and I am pretty confident about this POE

I assume this is how nanook feels all the time

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This is an extremely bad way of sorting people

No it isn't.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I take close to nothing from dialogue on flavor, probably less than I should. I do value the exchanges today anyway, as they reinforced my confidence in KitsuShel.

[Alison]

This is an extremely bad way of sorting people

No it isn't.

It really is but I'm not going to convince you on something that you won't budge on so all I'm going to say is that my read on Epi is that he has high wolf equity and I will strongly resist all attempts to give him a pass or move him into the towncore regardless of what you think

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This is an extremely bad way of sorting people

No it isn't.

It really is but I'm not going to convince you on something that you won't budge on so all I'm going to say is that my read on Epi is that he has high wolf equity and I will strongly resist all attempts to give him a pass or move him into the towncore regardless of what you think

I can be moved on Epignosis. I'm not utterly convinced that he is a civilian.

You don't have to agree with my methodology. I've won a million games anyway.

[Alison]

This is an extremely bad way of sorting people

No it isn't.

It really is but I'm not going to convince you on something that you won't budge on so all I'm going to say is that my read on Epi is that he has high wolf equity and I will strongly resist all attempts to give him a pass or move him into the towncore regardless of what you think

This post came out more hostile than i intended it to because I'm dealing with some extremely annoying circumstances IRL so my temper is short

I apologize if this came off as slighting your playstyle. I understand you have your own methods of sorting players, even if they are unconvincing to me. Many players use their gut as a primary tool to solve and that is also unconvincing to me but that doesn't me it's an invalid way of playing

A better way to rephrase this would be: "I'm unconvinced by your case on epi as town and still think he's scum"

[Alison]

This is an extremely bad way of sorting people

No it isn't.

It really is but I'm not going to convince you on something that you won't budge on so all I'm going to say is that my read on Epi is that he has high wolf equity and I will strongly resist all attempts to give him a pass or move him into the towncore regardless of what you think

I can be moved on Epignosis. I'm not utterly convinced that he is a civilian.

You don't have to agree with my methodology. I've won a million games anyway.

why do you think town epi thinks alison has more wolf equity than pawn

do you really think he's the kind of player to be swayed by a few logical sounding sentences put together?

[Alison]

Also I just realized JJJ's role is a massive liability at endgame so we need to find a way to deal with that at some point

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm dealing with some extremely annoying circumstances IRL so my temper is short

Me too! I hate graduate school.

I'm enjoying playing Mafia with you Alison, it's all groovy.

why do you think town epi thinks alison has more wolf equity than pawn

do you really think he's the kind of player to be swayed by a few logical sounding sentences put together?

If I presume a civilian brain inside Epignosis's head, I'd figure that he has active suspicion of you and not of Pawn. Epignosis has sometimes played with a POE mindset, but he is also more inclined toward raw suspicion than someone like me. If he has a beef, that will probably mean more to him than the lack of trust in Pawn would mean.

That doesn't account for his actual vote of confidence in Pawn, which I would agree is off-putting. I exaggerated in my initial "they're teammates" response to that, but it is still a read I did not expect to see. Epignosis can conceivably be moved by any old thing whether it's logical or emotional in character -- usually I think his reasoning is appropriate. In this case, no, I don't get it. I don't think that's a "good" Pawn post.

I incur a slight bias in this dynamic given that I was the one that posed the general question to the game: "why should Pawn live?" So Epignosis is justified to groan when he provides an answer and then I give him a hard time for it. There's a clash of intuition and reason there that leads me to a "he's fine" shrug. He's not a Day 2 chop for me, but he's not exonerated.

[Alison]

I can see why civillian Epi would suspect me but the defense of Pawn simply for having a few words that make sense put together in one post seems to be extremely out of character

In a world where Epi was a civillian I'd expect him to just put me and Pawn in a bucket and say we are both scum and should be shot. That makes sense to me. "Alison is scum, Pawn is town, kill Alison and definitely not Pawn" doesn't.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]Epignosis[/mention] himself should address the matter.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: ColinIsCool] aubergine knows I'm a civilian.

[Alison]

I wasn't very convinced by your case on Colin being TMI but I suspect him for unrelated reasons anyway so I'm happy with a Colin execute

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Alison looks authentic on this page.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Of COURSE that post shows up on a new page.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Actually it's probably not a new page for y'all. I'm the weirdo at 90 ppp. N/M

[Alison]

is there an easy way to ISO all the posts where JJJ and LC are talking to each other so I can read through their interactions again?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

is there an easy way to ISO all the posts where JJJ and LC are talking to each other so I can read through their interactions again?

When I want to do a similar task, I just open both individual ISOs and CTRL+F the username/nicknames of 'A' in 'B's ISO and 'B' in 'A's ISO. We don't have a multi-ISO feature at this time unfortunately.

[Alison]

I've decided that if LC is just lock town then reading his side of the interactions doesn't matter as much and I assume JJJ will quote whatever he's directly responding to so I can probably follow the convo anyway. So I am just going to ISO JJJ and ctrl + f "LC" and "Long Con" and see what I can find

[Alison]

I think I tend to believe JJJ is town from the interactions with LC, if we begin from the assumption that LC is town. I think that:

1) If JJJ/LC was indeed W/V, then the only reasonable interpretation of their interaction was scum trying to get an easy execute on a civillian who came in with a bad entrance.

2) If that was the goal wolf JJJ had, he would be well served sitting back and letting LC incriminate himself, or even better, fanning the flames by provoking him. This would also have the pleasant side effect of disrupting the thread by making it all about the JJJ/LC fight.

3) Instead, JJJ made repeated attempts to try to get LC to calm down and cut down on the behavior that was getting him scumread (the melodrama) and redirect the conversation to other avenues before the JJJ/LC dispute could take over the thread.

I did not really get a vibe that JJJ was sitting there rubbing his hands together and letting a townie dig a deeper hole for themselves, which would be the attitude that scum would have there if that interaction was indeed V/W, I think. So this interactions leaves JJJ coming off looking pretty townie.

[ColinIsCool]

Does ColinIsCool know JaggedJimmyJay's alignment?

Spoiler: show

I don’t believe it’s W/W

Long Con comes from an older generation of mafia in this community. We come from the same mafia background. It’s my experience that he tends to protect teammates rather than call attention to them.

I think it’s either a genuine town rage or he’s a wolf who is overreacting about something that I don’t think many of us were thinking much about.

Does this post TMI Jay to be town or nah

JJJ - seems like a duh at this moment

I continue to feel great about the state of the game. I am comfortable with my civilian reads; indeed that is only becoming more true as Day 1 progresses.

My clear POE pool remains: ColinIsCool, DrWilgy, sprityo, Long Con, and Funnygurl555. I said earlier in the phase that my goal was a pool of seven, so I have room for two more on the tinfoil side. I’d look first to Alison and TonyStarkPrime for that “tier”.

Anyone who has severe misgivings about this arrangement (ideally beyond “I’m on the list, how dare you”) should speak up.

Jay is checking off all of the boxes on the classically scum list. It makes me... uncomfortable.

what

Yeah this was a weird post for me too.

Whatever our setup preferences, let's try to refrain from groaning about the setup. That's never fun for a host to read. We all come from different backgrounds and are accustomed to different norms.

Anyone is always free to send a PM to Sloonei though with grievances. He's our moderator on duty.

Jay, vote for ... whoever you want

is this a real question

Yes.

Do you have any general theory of the game, or are you just spouting random takes to maintain some image of involvement?

This latter portion of the post describes my feelings toward Tony and I might vote there.

If you’re scum bub I’m probably not catching you so have fun.

let's execute this

Look, there’s an old evergreen I like to bandy about in times like these ...

I’m not bad, I’m bad at Mafia.

The only times I can ever remember myself “catching“ Jay as mafia were not games (might have just been one, actually) where he was directing activity in the thread, forming POEs, serving as morale captain, etc. I just don’t see scum Jay there, and if there is scum Jay there, it’s beyond my abilities right now to sort through his ISO and make that case. Is that defeatist? Hi, I’m Colin, nice to meet you.

I’ve gotten in trouble as scum for TMIing Jay in games past so I see where the accusation is coming from, but here it’s just a read.

[ColinIsCool]

I think it can easily be you / epi but otherwise came to the same conclusion on epi earlier.

I'll be frank. One of the biggest reasons why I am struggling to see a civilian in you is that you keep saying I'm a suspect. I realize I am not confirmed, but I feel like I have been pretty damned obvious in my civilian game here. You even noticed in Ziggy when I was very much not that, so the difference ought to be stark. No pun intended.

Here’s Jay saying out loud why I (and everyone else in the thread) think he’s a civ but I’m the only one getting shushed over it

[Millium]

Called into work earlier, rip...
Will be around for EoD though

[mention]ColinIsCool[/mention]
#3249 pretty much amounts to "I am getting scumread for the things that other people are doing," and means very little to me