Jack Attack Mafia (Day 5)

[ColinIsCool]

So the rules say there are fake claims given to anti-town players. How do we imagine Wisp's role interacts with those?

we dont know, thats what we’re talking about now

I have to imagine there's a good chance that Wisp sees the fake-claim. Otherwise, it's a pretty damn powerful role.

[Alison]

So the rules say there are fake claims given to anti-town players. How do we imagine Wisp's role interacts with those?

we dont know, thats what we’re talking about now

I have to imagine there's a good chance that Wisp sees the fake-claim. Otherwise, it's a pretty damn powerful role.

your attempt to shift LC out of the lock town pool has been denied

[Hally]

i mean, that makes sense

having a town role that can peek at the true role card of anyone kinda like... defeats the point of giving wolves fake role cards in the first place

idk man. i trust wisps result on lc though

[JaggedJimmyJay]

imo the % of a role that can fool wisp in this game is roughly the same as the % of a godfather in any game with a cop

agreed

[Alison]

i mean, that makes sense

having a town role that can peek at the true role card of anyone kinda like... defeats the point of giving wolves fake role cards in the first place

idk man. i trust wisps result on lc though

I don't think it defeats the point. Fake role cards exist to stop mass claiming, not to protect from cops

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Anyway, that's the extent to which I am willing to solve the host -- especially a host that has explicitly said it's a bad idea in his games.

[Alison]

To be clear I believe that it is correct for us to treat all of Wisp's investigation results as correct until we have hard evidence that they are wrong (eg. everyone in the game has been checked green by Wisp but the game has not ended), or until very late in the game where we have to make endgame decisions. Until then I will not accept attempts to cast doubt on players who have been rolecop checked green in a game where our strong confirmed-town core is our best asset

[Hally]

maybeeee

this is not a normal game though, expect the unexpected, etc

jack literally said in the op not everything he tells us is necessarily true

[JaggedJimmyJay]

To be honest, Long Con's appeals in Night 1 were kinda pulling me away from that mafia read anyway. So when Wisp revealed, it just made sense.

[Alison]

maybeeee

this is not a normal game though, expect the unexpected, etc

jack literally said in the op not everything he tells us is necessarily true

I don't believe in eating our own tail in an attempt to play WIFOM against the host.

If you are paranoid about rolecop-Godfather deepwolfing in the town core, catch them at F3. Before then, focus on catching their buddies.

[Hally]

To be honest, Long Con's appeals in Night 1 were kinda pulling me away from that mafia read anyway. So when Wisp revealed, it just made sense.

same. i was already waning on that read so im not surprised at the result at all. plus how lc handled the claim was good

but like, if wisp got back a green on like pawn, i would be doubtful of that tbh

[Hally]

maybeeee

this is not a normal game though, expect the unexpected, etc

jack literally said in the op not everything he tells us is necessarily true

I don't believe in eating our own tail in an attempt to play WIFOM against the host.

If you are paranoid about rolecop-Godfather deepwolfing in the town core, catch them at F3. Before then, focus on catching their buddies.

i mean, i am doing that but i dont think we can be too cautious even if we dont do anything with that right now or for a long time

[JaggedJimmyJay]

These are the things towns talk about when they don't feel much controversy about who to chop.

[Hally]

These are the things towns talk about when they don't feel much controversy about who to chop.

true lol

[Alison]

EoD is in 6 hours, yes? I won't be around. Please try to make it more orderly than the last one.

[ColinIsCool]

Yeah I'm not saying I think Long Con in particular is scum now or even that he deserves greater scrutiny, just that, let's not get too ahead of ourselves and forget about fakeclaims down the road. And in saying so I guess I am getting ahead of myself.

[Hally]

i already have 650 posts

having open nights is not good for me. i need enforced silence

remind me never to do this again

[Alison]

I like open nights because it means I'm never stuck waiting around for the night to end when I'm a VT or whatever

[Hally]

its now been almost 72 hrs since wilgy last posted

ive seen his name at the bottom of the thread at least once recently

i know hes alive

where oh where art thou wilgy?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I wish to bless this game with holy energies.

[Hally]

I wish to bless this game with holy energies.

hahahaha hopefully this one goes that well

[TonyStarkPrime]

I understand why. But like. You allow your role to be taken advantage of as quickly as possible for no discernable value.

My role has no discernible value. It is explicitly crippled. If I have to go off explaining it later in a game then people like TonyStarkPrime think I'm a bullshitter and I just don't want to deal with that. That's not healthy for the civilian faction.

You don't get plasmids or anything? Not even a wrench?

Like. I get your logic. I think it's in profile for you too. But understand that if anyone else did it this way I'd probably be voting for them right now.

Eh?

I don't think Jay's claim holds up; if he weren't valuable to the town by the work he's doing AND if his claim didn't specifically fit into his playstyle I would consider it a mechanical reason to vote for him.

[sabie12]

its now been almost 72 hrs since wilgy last posted

ive seen his name at the bottom of the thread at least once recently

i know hes alive

where oh where art thou wilgy?

At what point do you think he'll end up getting replaced? Unless he was silenced for the day?

[Hally]

its now been almost 72 hrs since wilgy last posted

ive seen his name at the bottom of the thread at least once recently

i know hes alive

where oh where art thou wilgy?

At what point do you think he'll end up getting replaced? Unless he was silenced for the day?

i dont know, thats not for me to speculate about. its up to jack

i dont know why wilgy would be silenced in particular when he hardly talked to begin with

[TonyStarkPrime]

I’m a miller, so investigating me is useless.

good excuse

luckily we have a role that isn't fooled by millers.

We do?

yup! wisp's role allows them to obtain the actual rolecard of the target, not simply a guilty/innocent result. not only is this claimed, but hally's voyeur role (see what actions are performed on a target) has confirmed that wisp can indeed do this.

ftr, im somewhat worried that wisp’s role may give him fake roles as a result instead of a real role card for at least some of the wolves

his role seems too powerful on its face for it to not be nerfed in some way. wolves have to have a way to counter that

he's also jack torrance why are we trusting his abilities. A better option is that wisp chooses a target, that target confirms a target, hally watches the target's target and sees the action, and wisp sees if that action matches up with the role card.


Hally and Wisp should not target the same player regardless.

[Hally]

I’m a miller, so investigating me is useless.

good excuse

luckily we have a role that isn't fooled by millers.

We do?

yup! wisp's role allows them to obtain the actual rolecard of the target, not simply a guilty/innocent result. not only is this claimed, but hally's voyeur role (see what actions are performed on a target) has confirmed that wisp can indeed do this.

ftr, im somewhat worried that wisp’s role may give him fake roles as a result instead of a real role card for at least some of the wolves

his role seems too powerful on its face for it to not be nerfed in some way. wolves have to have a way to counter that

he's also jack torrance why are we trusting his abilities. A better option is that wisp chooses a target, that target confirms a target, hally watches the target's target and sees the action, and wisp sees if that action matches up with the role card.


Hally and Wisp should not target the same player regardless.

that only works if the person has an active ability that i can see with my voyeur

also they could just get redirected to someone else, in which case i wont know anything

[Hally]

also it requires us to out the persons ability

[TonyStarkPrime]

Wisp's claim is both a role cop and a cop, so I'd call it extremely powerful. I'm not concerning myself with that at the moment though.

Wait has it been established that it's a cop?

[TonyStarkPrime]

also it requires us to out the persons ability

yes this and the active ability thing are thing's I've thought of. It's a stupid plan which is largely unnecessary. You guys shouldn't target the same people though

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Wisp's claim is both a role cop and a cop, so I'd call it extremely powerful. I'm not concerning myself with that at the moment though.

Wait has it been established that it's a cop?

He sees the entire role card, yes. Role and alignment.

[TonyStarkPrime]

[VOTE: pawn lelouch] aubergine

town colin has no reason to oppose a lelouch execute there btw. i think they are buddies now

arbitrary

[TonyStarkPrime]

So the rules say there are fake claims given to anti-town players. How do we imagine Wisp's role interacts with those?

we dont know, thats what we’re talking about now

I have to imagine there's a good chance that Wisp sees the fake-claim. Otherwise, it's a pretty damn powerful role.

your attempt to shift LC out of the lock town pool has been denied

meh

[TonyStarkPrime]

i already have 650 posts

having open nights is not good for me. i need enforced silence

remind me never to do this again

just don't post. self enforced silence.

[Alison]

[VOTE: pawn lelouch] aubergine

town colin has no reason to oppose a lelouch execute there btw. i think they are buddies now

arbitrary

???

[Alison]

TSP I can't tell what the hell you've been saying for the past few posts, please try to explain yourself a bit more

[Hally]

also it requires us to out the persons ability

yes this and the active ability thing are thing's I've thought of. It's a stupid plan which is largely unnecessary. You guys shouldn't target the same people though

if we dont target the same people how do we know wisp is actually peeking who he says

ig he can quiz them to see if they know the rolecard he saw

but they can just play dumb if theyre a wolf and be like “no you mustve gotten redirected im not a wolf”

my ability sucks. voyeur is the weakest investigative role by far. its only purpose really is to verify that actions were actually performed on a given target and thats what i should use it for

[Hally]

i think me verifying that cop investigations actually peek who they intended to peek is about the best use of my role possible if we assume wolves have a redirector

voyeur is pretty useless otherwise lol

[sabie12]

i think me verifying that cop investigations actually peek who they intended to peek is about the best use of my role possible if we assume wolves have a redirector

voyeur is pretty useless otherwise lol

I mean it's at least giving us some info to go off of. I wouldn't say it's completely useless

[Alison]

voyeurs are surprisingly useful with a bit of creativity. by combining your night results with people's behavior in thread, you can often identify who is the investigative or protective, and also figure out their results (for the investigative), all without them having to expose themselves in the thread

you can also do stuff like fakeclaim tracker and tell X player that you followed them to the person killed at night, then when they claim that they were investigating them or doing something else harmless, you reclaim voyeur and reveal that the only action they were targeted with was a killing role

lots of fun stuff if you think out of the box a little

[Hally]

yeah but like

right now, with the claims on the table and the info we have

the optimal use of my role is to verify cop checks

[Alison]

yeah but like

right now, with the claims on the table and the info we have

the optimal use of my role is to verify cop checks

yeah i agree and I think you should target whoever wisp targeted just to make sure it's not a misdirect

also which people in our POE have claimed miller and which haven't?

[Alison]

prioritize investigating those without miller claims. that way SD can get a useful check on them too and then the redirector can't target both wisp and SD so we're bound to get something useful

[ColinIsCool]

[VOTE: Pawn] aubergine

Don't know if I'll be around for the rest of the phase so y'all have fun now

[Hally]

yeah but like

right now, with the claims on the table and the info we have

the optimal use of my role is to verify cop checks

yeah i agree and I think you should target whoever wisp targeted just to make sure it's not a misdirect

also which people in our POE have claimed miller and which haven't?

colin has claimed miller

i dont think wilgy and pawn have claimed anything

[Hally]

epi has also not claimed anything

[Alison]

at this stage in the game I am not going to believe any late miller claims. anyone who hasn't claimed miller yet will be assumed to not be a miller and any red checks on them by SD will be treated as legitimate

[TonyStarkPrime]

also it requires us to out the persons ability

yes this and the active ability thing are thing's I've thought of. It's a stupid plan which is largely unnecessary. You guys shouldn't target the same people though

if we dont target the same people how do we know wisp is actually peeking who he says

ig he can quiz them to see if they know the rolecard he saw

but they can just play dumb if theyre a wolf and be like “no you mustve gotten redirected im not a wolf”

my ability sucks. voyeur is the weakest investigative role by far. its only purpose really is to verify that actions were actually performed on a given target and thats what i should use it for

okay then do that

[TonyStarkPrime]

[VOTE: pawn lelouch] aubergine

town colin has no reason to oppose a lelouch execute there btw. i think they are buddies now

arbitrary

???

It's one post, town colin has no reason to support a pawn chop just the same, and all he said was that he didn't want to consolidate, which doesn't seem ai.

[TonyStarkPrime]

dead
air
ded
viaalagerg

[JaggedJimmyJay]

dead
air
ded
viaalagerg

Does this concern you?