Jack Attack Mafia (Day 5)

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Which Jack must go?

Poll ended at Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:00 pm

Long Con
0
No votes
nutella
1
9%
Wisp
0
No votes
KitsuShel
3
27%
sabie12
3
27%
Epignosis
0
No votes
JaggedJimmyJay
0
No votes
I don't give a hee ho (host/dead/non)
4
36%
 
Total votes: 11
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3401

Post by ColinIsCool »

Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:11 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:10 pm So the rules say there are fake claims given to anti-town players. How do we imagine Wisp's role interacts with those?
we dont know, thats what we’re talking about now
I have to imagine there's a good chance that Wisp sees the fake-claim. Otherwise, it's a pretty damn powerful role.
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3402

Post by Alison »

ColinIsCool wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:14 pm
Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:11 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:10 pm So the rules say there are fake claims given to anti-town players. How do we imagine Wisp's role interacts with those?
we dont know, thats what we’re talking about now
I have to imagine there's a good chance that Wisp sees the fake-claim. Otherwise, it's a pretty damn powerful role.
your attempt to shift LC out of the lock town pool has been denied
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3403

Post by Hally »

i mean, that makes sense

having a town role that can peek at the true role card of anyone kinda like... defeats the point of giving wolves fake role cards in the first place

idk man. i trust wisps result on lc though
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3404

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Alison wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:01 pm imo the % of a role that can fool wisp in this game is roughly the same as the % of a godfather in any game with a cop
agreed
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3405

Post by Alison »

Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:20 pm i mean, that makes sense

having a town role that can peek at the true role card of anyone kinda like... defeats the point of giving wolves fake role cards in the first place

idk man. i trust wisps result on lc though
I don't think it defeats the point. Fake role cards exist to stop mass claiming, not to protect from cops
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3406

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Anyway, that's the extent to which I am willing to solve the host -- especially a host that has explicitly said it's a bad idea in his games.
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3407

Post by Alison »

To be clear I believe that it is correct for us to treat all of Wisp's investigation results as correct until we have hard evidence that they are wrong (eg. everyone in the game has been checked green by Wisp but the game has not ended), or until very late in the game where we have to make endgame decisions. Until then I will not accept attempts to cast doubt on players who have been rolecop checked green in a game where our strong confirmed-town core is our best asset
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3408

Post by Hally »

maybeeee

this is not a normal game though, expect the unexpected, etc

jack literally said in the op not everything he tells us is necessarily true
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3409

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

To be honest, Long Con's appeals in Night 1 were kinda pulling me away from that mafia read anyway. So when Wisp revealed, it just made sense.
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3410

Post by Alison »

Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:24 pm maybeeee

this is not a normal game though, expect the unexpected, etc

jack literally said in the op not everything he tells us is necessarily true
I don't believe in eating our own tail in an attempt to play WIFOM against the host.

If you are paranoid about rolecop-Godfather deepwolfing in the town core, catch them at F3. Before then, focus on catching their buddies.
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3411

Post by Hally »

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:24 pm To be honest, Long Con's appeals in Night 1 were kinda pulling me away from that mafia read anyway. So when Wisp revealed, it just made sense.
same. i was already waning on that read so im not surprised at the result at all. plus how lc handled the claim was good

but like, if wisp got back a green on like pawn, i would be doubtful of that tbh
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3412

Post by Hally »

Alison wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:25 pm
Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:24 pm maybeeee

this is not a normal game though, expect the unexpected, etc

jack literally said in the op not everything he tells us is necessarily true
I don't believe in eating our own tail in an attempt to play WIFOM against the host.

If you are paranoid about rolecop-Godfather deepwolfing in the town core, catch them at F3. Before then, focus on catching their buddies.
i mean, i am doing that :p but i dont think we can be too cautious even if we dont do anything with that right now or for a long time
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3413

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

These are the things towns talk about when they don't feel much controversy about who to chop. :grin:
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3414

Post by Hally »

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:29 pm These are the things towns talk about when they don't feel much controversy about who to chop. :grin:
true lol
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3415

Post by Alison »

EoD is in 6 hours, yes? I won't be around. Please try to make it more orderly than the last one.
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3416

Post by ColinIsCool »

Yeah I'm not saying I think Long Con in particular is scum now or even that he deserves greater scrutiny, just that, let's not get too ahead of ourselves and forget about fakeclaims down the road. And in saying so I guess I am getting ahead of myself.
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3417

Post by Hally »

i already have 650 posts

having open nights is not good for me. i need enforced silence

remind me never to do this again
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3418

Post by Alison »

I like open nights because it means I'm never stuck waiting around for the night to end when I'm a VT or whatever
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3419

Post by Hally »

its now been almost 72 hrs since wilgy last posted

ive seen his name at the bottom of the thread at least once recently

i know hes alive

where oh where art thou wilgy?
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3420

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

I wish to bless this game with holy energies.

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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3421

Post by Hally »

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:36 pm I wish to bless this game with holy energies.

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hahahaha hopefully this one goes that well
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3422

Post by TonyStarkPrime »

Epignosis wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:59 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:21 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:01 am I understand why. But like. You allow your role to be taken advantage of as quickly as possible for no discernable value.
My role has no discernible value. It is explicitly crippled. If I have to go off explaining it later in a game then people like TonyStarkPrime think I'm a bullshitter and I just don't want to deal with that. That's not healthy for the civilian faction.
You don't get plasmids or anything? Not even a wrench?
Epignosis wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:01 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:31 am Like. I get your logic. I think it's in profile for you too. But understand that if anyone else did it this way I'd probably be voting for them right now.
Eh?
I don't think Jay's claim holds up; if he weren't valuable to the town by the work he's doing AND if his claim didn't specifically fit into his playstyle I would consider it a mechanical reason to vote for him.
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3423

Post by sabie12 »

Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:36 pm its now been almost 72 hrs since wilgy last posted

ive seen his name at the bottom of the thread at least once recently

i know hes alive

where oh where art thou wilgy?
At what point do you think he'll end up getting replaced? Unless he was silenced for the day?
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3424

Post by Hally »

sabie12 wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:42 pm
Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:36 pm its now been almost 72 hrs since wilgy last posted

ive seen his name at the bottom of the thread at least once recently

i know hes alive

where oh where art thou wilgy?
At what point do you think he'll end up getting replaced? Unless he was silenced for the day?
i dont know, thats not for me to speculate about. its up to jack

i dont know why wilgy would be silenced in particular when he hardly talked to begin with
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3425

Post by TonyStarkPrime »

Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:50 pm
Alison wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:48 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:46 pm
Alison wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:45 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:44 pm I’m a miller, so investigating me is useless.
good excuse

luckily we have a role that isn't fooled by millers. :)
We do?
yup! wisp's role allows them to obtain the actual rolecard of the target, not simply a guilty/innocent result. not only is this claimed, but hally's voyeur role (see what actions are performed on a target) has confirmed that wisp can indeed do this.
ftr, im somewhat worried that wisp’s role may give him fake roles as a result instead of a real role card for at least some of the wolves

his role seems too powerful on its face for it to not be nerfed in some way. wolves have to have a way to counter that
he's also jack torrance why are we trusting his abilities. A better option is that wisp chooses a target, that target confirms a target, hally watches the target's target and sees the action, and wisp sees if that action matches up with the role card.


Hally and Wisp should not target the same player regardless.
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3426

Post by Hally »

TonyStarkPrime wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:48 pm
Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:50 pm
Alison wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:48 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:46 pm
Alison wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:45 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:44 pm I’m a miller, so investigating me is useless.
good excuse

luckily we have a role that isn't fooled by millers. :)
We do?
yup! wisp's role allows them to obtain the actual rolecard of the target, not simply a guilty/innocent result. not only is this claimed, but hally's voyeur role (see what actions are performed on a target) has confirmed that wisp can indeed do this.
ftr, im somewhat worried that wisp’s role may give him fake roles as a result instead of a real role card for at least some of the wolves

his role seems too powerful on its face for it to not be nerfed in some way. wolves have to have a way to counter that
he's also jack torrance why are we trusting his abilities. A better option is that wisp chooses a target, that target confirms a target, hally watches the target's target and sees the action, and wisp sees if that action matches up with the role card.


Hally and Wisp should not target the same player regardless.
that only works if the person has an active ability that i can see with my voyeur

also they could just get redirected to someone else, in which case i wont know anything
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3427

Post by Hally »

also it requires us to out the persons ability
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3428

Post by TonyStarkPrime »

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:59 pm Wisp's claim is both a role cop and a cop, so I'd call it extremely powerful. I'm not concerning myself with that at the moment though.
Wait has it been established that it's a cop?
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3429

Post by TonyStarkPrime »

Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:51 pm also it requires us to out the persons ability
yes this and the active ability thing are thing's I've thought of. It's a stupid plan which is largely unnecessary. You guys shouldn't target the same people though
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3430

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

TonyStarkPrime wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:52 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:59 pm Wisp's claim is both a role cop and a cop, so I'd call it extremely powerful. I'm not concerning myself with that at the moment though.
Wait has it been established that it's a cop?
He sees the entire role card, yes. Role and alignment.
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3431

Post by TonyStarkPrime »

Alison wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:12 pm [VOTE: pawn lelouch] aubergine

town colin has no reason to oppose a lelouch execute there btw. i think they are buddies now
arbitrary
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3432

Post by TonyStarkPrime »

Alison wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:20 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:14 pm
Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:11 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:10 pm So the rules say there are fake claims given to anti-town players. How do we imagine Wisp's role interacts with those?
we dont know, thats what we’re talking about now
I have to imagine there's a good chance that Wisp sees the fake-claim. Otherwise, it's a pretty damn powerful role.
your attempt to shift LC out of the lock town pool has been denied
meh
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3433

Post by TonyStarkPrime »

Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:32 pm i already have 650 posts

having open nights is not good for me. i need enforced silence

remind me never to do this again
just don't post. self enforced silence.
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3434

Post by Alison »

TonyStarkPrime wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:53 pm
Alison wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:12 pm [VOTE: pawn lelouch] aubergine

town colin has no reason to oppose a lelouch execute there btw. i think they are buddies now
arbitrary
???
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3435

Post by Alison »

TSP I can't tell what the hell you've been saying for the past few posts, please try to explain yourself a bit more
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3436

Post by Hally »

TonyStarkPrime wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:53 pm
Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:51 pm also it requires us to out the persons ability
yes this and the active ability thing are thing's I've thought of. It's a stupid plan which is largely unnecessary. You guys shouldn't target the same people though
if we dont target the same people how do we know wisp is actually peeking who he says

ig he can quiz them to see if they know the rolecard he saw

but they can just play dumb if theyre a wolf and be like “no you mustve gotten redirected im not a wolf”

my ability sucks. voyeur is the weakest investigative role by far. its only purpose really is to verify that actions were actually performed on a given target and thats what i should use it for
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3437

Post by Hally »

i think me verifying that cop investigations actually peek who they intended to peek is about the best use of my role possible if we assume wolves have a redirector

voyeur is pretty useless otherwise lol
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3438

Post by sabie12 »

Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:58 pm i think me verifying that cop investigations actually peek who they intended to peek is about the best use of my role possible if we assume wolves have a redirector

voyeur is pretty useless otherwise lol
I mean it's at least giving us some info to go off of. I wouldn't say it's completely useless
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3439

Post by Alison »

voyeurs are surprisingly useful with a bit of creativity. by combining your night results with people's behavior in thread, you can often identify who is the investigative or protective, and also figure out their results (for the investigative), all without them having to expose themselves in the thread

you can also do stuff like fakeclaim tracker and tell X player that you followed them to the person killed at night, then when they claim that they were investigating them or doing something else harmless, you reclaim voyeur and reveal that the only action they were targeted with was a killing role

lots of fun stuff if you think out of the box a little
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3440

Post by Hally »

yeah but like

right now, with the claims on the table and the info we have

the optimal use of my role is to verify cop checks
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3441

Post by Alison »

Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:10 pm yeah but like

right now, with the claims on the table and the info we have

the optimal use of my role is to verify cop checks
yeah i agree and I think you should target whoever wisp targeted just to make sure it's not a misdirect

also which people in our POE have claimed miller and which haven't?
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3442

Post by Alison »

prioritize investigating those without miller claims. that way SD can get a useful check on them too and then the redirector can't target both wisp and SD so we're bound to get something useful
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3443

Post by ColinIsCool »

[VOTE: Pawn] aubergine

Don't know if I'll be around for the rest of the phase so y'all have fun now
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3444

Post by Hally »

Alison wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:12 pm
Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:10 pm yeah but like

right now, with the claims on the table and the info we have

the optimal use of my role is to verify cop checks
yeah i agree and I think you should target whoever wisp targeted just to make sure it's not a misdirect

also which people in our POE have claimed miller and which haven't?
colin has claimed miller

i dont think wilgy and pawn have claimed anything
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3445

Post by Hally »

epi has also not claimed anything
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3446

Post by Alison »

at this stage in the game I am not going to believe any late miller claims. anyone who hasn't claimed miller yet will be assumed to not be a miller and any red checks on them by SD will be treated as legitimate
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3447

Post by TonyStarkPrime »

Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:56 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:53 pm
Hally wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:51 pm also it requires us to out the persons ability
yes this and the active ability thing are thing's I've thought of. It's a stupid plan which is largely unnecessary. You guys shouldn't target the same people though
if we dont target the same people how do we know wisp is actually peeking who he says

ig he can quiz them to see if they know the rolecard he saw

but they can just play dumb if theyre a wolf and be like “no you mustve gotten redirected im not a wolf”

my ability sucks. voyeur is the weakest investigative role by far. its only purpose really is to verify that actions were actually performed on a given target and thats what i should use it for
okay then do that
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3448

Post by TonyStarkPrime »

Alison wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:55 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:53 pm
Alison wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:12 pm [VOTE: pawn lelouch] aubergine

town colin has no reason to oppose a lelouch execute there btw. i think they are buddies now
arbitrary
???
It's one post, town colin has no reason to support a pawn chop just the same, and all he said was that he didn't want to consolidate, which doesn't seem ai.
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3449

Post by TonyStarkPrime »

dead
air
ded
viaalagerg
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Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 2)

#3450

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

TonyStarkPrime wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:24 pm dead
air
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viaalagerg
Does this concern you?
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