Jack Attack Mafia (Day 5)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JaggedJimmyJay, I want to specifically apologize for being cross with you yesterday. I'm very tired and a little bitter about something Mafia-related but that something has nothing to do with you or anybody else here.

I took no offense, no worries.

[KitsuShel]

@KitsuShel
there is no way you can't have some sort of town PoE, you can't honestly still suspect "everyone"
show me where you got shot down?

I don’t suspect *everyone*, but I’m not outright ruling anyone out on Day Two. Results can be faked or doctored. It’s just part of the game.

And maybe shot down isn’t quite the right turn of phrase. Moreso how I felt basically being told that trying to figure out the write up didn’t matter, but it mattered to me, because that’s the playstyle I’m used to. Mods oftentimes leave small clues in a write up to help figure out the puzzle. Because that’s exactly how I view a mafia game: like it’s one big puzzle to sort out.

[KitsuShel]

I will say, I’ve never once played in a game where the Night Phase was open and each whole day/night was 36 hours long. It makes it feel like we’ve been at this a week instead of not quite two “days.”

[ColinIsCool]

Believing everything is no different than believing nothing
#ChangeMyMind

Won’t hear an argument from me

[ColinIsCool]

So you can’t keep throwing out there that I haven’t “offered any insight”, this my list/ranking atm. Likely town, from top to bottom.

Hally
JJJ
Wisp
Spacedaisy
Sabie
Nutella
Epi
ColinIsCool
Alison
Long Con
TonyStarkPrime

What is it about Tony that makes him your biggest suspect right now?

[KitsuShel]

So you can’t keep throwing out there that I haven’t “offered any insight”, this my list/ranking atm. Likely town, from top to bottom.

Hally
JJJ
Wisp
Spacedaisy
Sabie
Nutella
Epi
ColinIsCool
Alison
Long Con
TonyStarkPrime

What is it about Tony that makes him your biggest suspect right now?

The bottom 4 are almost interchangeable for me right now, some of those because of their view of me. Like, if a few people can view me as town but you can’t, that strikes me that your possible end game may be different than theirs. I know I’m town, so I’m more trusting of those who show that they have good instincts.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don’t suspect *everyone*, but I’m not outright ruling anyone out on Day Two. Results can be faked or doctored. It’s just part of the game.

And maybe shot down isn’t quite the right turn of phrase. Moreso how I felt basically being told that trying to figure out the write up didn’t matter, but it mattered to me, because that’s the playstyle I’m used to. Mods oftentimes leave small clues in a write up to help figure out the puzzle. Because that’s exactly how I view a mafia game: like it’s one big puzzle to sort out.

For those who are unfamiliar, this is the HCRealms way. Their games are heavily flavored, the flavor itself is often relevant to the game, and their setups are extremely mechanical -- so much so that behavioral hunting is often squelched or doesn't even exist. It's almost a different game. This is not meant to disparage, but rather to describe. This is the core difference to The Syndicate [and many other sites]; while our games do often have mechanical wrinkles, the primary motion to solve them is still in the assessment of behavior. In some games revealing night actions is even against the rules.

I tried to review the mafia game you linked Kitsu, but it didn't tell me much for this reason. You played that game per the culture within which you were situated. Everything is about roles, flavors, and actions. There's very little for me to interpret that isn't related to [the puzzle], and I don't know how to apply that to this game (even if this one seems to carry some of those [the puzzle] elements over in its own right).

[sabie12]

I don’t suspect *everyone*, but I’m not outright ruling anyone out on Day Two. Results can be faked or doctored. It’s just part of the game.

And maybe shot down isn’t quite the right turn of phrase. Moreso how I felt basically being told that trying to figure out the write up didn’t matter, but it mattered to me, because that’s the playstyle I’m used to. Mods oftentimes leave small clues in a write up to help figure out the puzzle. Because that’s exactly how I view a mafia game: like it’s one big puzzle to sort out.

For those who are unfamiliar, this is the HCRealms way. Their games are heavily flavored, the flavor itself is often relevant to the game, and their setups are extremely mechanical -- so much so that behavioral hunting is often squelched or doesn't even exist. It's almost a different game. This is not meant to disparage, but rather to describe. This is the core difference to The Syndicate [and many other sites]; while our games do often have mechanical wrinkles, the primary motion to solve them is still in the assessment of behavior. In some games revealing night actions is even against the rules.

I tried to review the mafia game you linked Kitsu, but it didn't tell me much for this reason. You played that game per the culture within which you were situated. Everything is about roles, flavors, and actions. There's very little for me to interpret that isn't related to [the puzzle], and I don't know how to apply that to this game (even if this one seems to carry some of those [the puzzle] elements over in its own right).

Sounds like maybe I would like the game style over there.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

A mafia Kitsu would almost always be teamed with Epignosis and/or Alison, I think. Those are the interactions that would clearly fit.

[Millium]

I will say, I’ve never once played in a game where the Night Phase was open and each whole day/night was 36 hours long. It makes it feel like we’ve been at this a week instead of not quite two “days.”

ya that is kinda turn off for me to be fair
I think Day 3 is definitely deep enough to have some idea of where to look

[Millium]

revealing night actions is against the rules???

[TonyStarkPrime]

I claimed my results first, I don't recall who full claimed first

Okay I’ll have to reread how that played out.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

revealing night actions is against the rules???

In some games it is (primarily/exclusively open setups with no vanilla players). It used to be a norm and a standard. Now we have just about every kind of game, and many of them are claim-friendly.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That's how we were forged in the hellfire to build us into indomitable machines of analytic hunting and "WIM".

[KitsuShel]

I don’t suspect *everyone*, but I’m not outright ruling anyone out on Day Two. Results can be faked or doctored. It’s just part of the game.

And maybe shot down isn’t quite the right turn of phrase. Moreso how I felt basically being told that trying to figure out the write up didn’t matter, but it mattered to me, because that’s the playstyle I’m used to. Mods oftentimes leave small clues in a write up to help figure out the puzzle. Because that’s exactly how I view a mafia game: like it’s one big puzzle to sort out.

For those who are unfamiliar, this is the HCRealms way. Their games are heavily flavored, the flavor itself is often relevant to the game, and their setups are extremely mechanical -- so much so that behavioral hunting is often squelched or doesn't even exist. It's almost a different game. This is not meant to disparage, but rather to describe. This is the core difference to The Syndicate [and many other sites]; while our games do often have mechanical wrinkles, the primary motion to solve them is still in the assessment of behavior. In some games revealing night actions is even against the rules.

I tried to review the mafia game you linked Kitsu, but it didn't tell me much for this reason. You played that game per the culture within which you were situated. Everything is about roles, flavors, and actions. There's very little for me to interpret that isn't related to [the puzzle], and I don't know how to apply that to this game (even if this one seems to carry some of those [the puzzle] elements over in its own right).

Thank you for eloquently putting what I was trying to say. It’s literally almost a different game. I’ve never played where I’m trying to figure out people’s behaviors, and it’s especially hard when I have no context or knowledge of what player’s “normal” behaviors are.

I almost feel like Jack is laughing at me from his mod-seat.

[Millium]

I mean given that its my first time on this site, it feels just as different for me
but I still play more or less the same, maybe a little less because I tend to get absorbed by my town clear lol

[KitsuShel]

I mean given that its my first time on this site, it feels just as different for me
but I still play more or less the same, maybe a little less because I tend to get absorbed by my town clear lol

But is the playstyle similar to where you usually play? Because that would make sense that you’re still able to play your normal way.

I tried to do what was normal for me, but wasn’t normal for here, and it doesn’t seem to mesh well. So now I’m adapting.

[Long Con]

LOL at the newcomers who miss their naptime at night. Like JJJ said, we come from a strange land where the thread never closes, every night kill is janitored, always role madness, and no one can share info they have publicly.

[sabie12]

LOL at the newcomers who miss their naptime at night. Like JJJ said, we come from a strange land where the thread never closes, every night kill is janitored, always role madness, and no one can share info they have publicly.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter.

[Long Con]

LOL at the newcomers who miss their naptime at night. Like JJJ said, we come from a strange land where the thread never closes, every night kill is janitored, always role madness, and no one can share info they have publicly.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter.

Yes! Thought of Calvinball at first, but then I knew WLIIA!

[Millium]

Hell no, this game is insanely mechanical, and borderline bastard, if I had known this, I would have probably never joined the game
I can't speak on the posts because people in my site tend to lurk, and wolves tend to always fall in the lurkers, outside a few average wolves, and a few notable town players, like Crossbell aka Prophylaxis

[ColinIsCool]

[VOTE: Tony] aubergine

for now. not 100% satisfied with Kitsu’s answers but eh

[KitsuShel]

Hell no, this game is insanely mechanical, and borderline bastard, if I had known this, I would have probably never joined the game
I can't speak on the posts because people in my site tend to lurk, and wolves tend to always fall in the lurkers, outside a few average wolves, and a few notable town players, like Crossbell aka Prophylaxis

Ah, see, on our site, it’s harder to figure out scum that way. There’s always at least one mafia player who posts just as much as the townies.

[KitsuShel]

[VOTE: Tony] aubergine

for now. not 100% satisfied with Kitsu’s answers but eh

Super for you. Would you like a cookie? There’s really nothing else I can say to change your mind, if your mind is made up already that you don’t like my “tone.”

[ColinIsCool]

[VOTE: Tony] aubergine

for now. not 100% satisfied with Kitsu’s answers but eh

Super for you. Would you like a cookie? There’s really nothing else I can say to change your mind, if your mind is made up already that you don’t like my “tone.”

My answer would depend on what kind of cookie

[ColinIsCool]

I’m still going to poke through Epi’s posts but that will probably have to wait until tomorrow.

[ColinIsCool]

Somebody else do some stuff too. This thread is awwwwwwwfully quiet for a game in which we’ve yet to nab scum.

[nutella]

I've been, uh, otherwise occupied today


liking colin more and kitsu less, sabie still meh


epi still my #1 choice for elim

[Hally]

idk what to do tbh

[KitsuShel]

[VOTE: Tony] aubergine

for now. not 100% satisfied with Kitsu’s answers but eh

Super for you. Would you like a cookie? There’s really nothing else I can say to change your mind, if your mind is made up already that you don’t like my “tone.”

My answer would depend on what kind of cookie

Our house favorites are snickerdoodle, chocolate chip, and oatmeal raisin, so those and banana muffins are my specialty. But I’m a baker, so anything is on the table, lol.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] please tell me what you think of Colin.

[KitsuShel]

idk what to do tbh

You and Nanook were my #1s right from the start, and I’ve listened to everything you’ve said in this thread. But I can appreciate that this is not an easy game. I’ll vote with you. I’ve openly welcomed any investigation other than straight alignment copping since that wouldn’t help since I’m a miller.

And if I live through the night, I’ll happily name claim during the next day phase.

[Hally]

idk what to do tbh

You and Nanook were my #1s right from the start, and I’ve listened to everything you’ve said in this thread. But I can appreciate that this is not an easy game. I’ll vote with you. I’ve openly welcomed any investigation other than straight alignment copping since that wouldn’t help since I’m a miller.

And if I live through the night, I’ll happily name claim during the next day phase.

....why are you telling me this?

[Millium]

"live through the night"
kek

[ColinIsCool]

I’m like 24 hours away from opening up some big honking boxes of tinfoil

[Long Con]

What does kek mean?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

[Millium]

What does kek mean?

a memey "LOL"

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Estimated number of times Epignosis has voiced suspicion of Alison: 9-11

Estimated number of times Alison has voiced suspicion of Epignosis: 6-8

Numbers vary because I don't want a single discussion of numerous posts to count more than once.

Number of votes either has placed for the other: 0

maybe b/c we're both intelligent players who understand that the other person is not getting exed d1 or d2 and prefer to use voting agency in more productive ways?

(also, if this is meant to imply an epi/alison wolf team, do you really think epi "i do not bus" gnosis treats his teammate the way he has treated me?)

This answer rubs me the wrong way. It doesn't look like Alison is referring to a player she actually finds "suspicious" (and Epignosis is central in her POE pool). Also that question about bussing does not reflect what has occurred in this game. They've never promoted a lynch of one another -- indeed that parenthetical stands in opposition to the question directly above it. Distancing is not bussing.

I don't understand why we would ever want Wisp and Daisy checking the same person. Neither of you need to say anymore than you want to say about this/who you're going for, but @Alison please clarify. That strikes me as a major waste.

because we suspect there is a scum redirector in the game. let's say wisp and daisy target whoever they want. the redirector hits wisp and redirects them, making their result useless. daisy targets [someone of their preference] and gets a result on that.

now consider the alternative idea. daisy and wisp both target the same person. this time, the scum redirector can't target both daisy and wisp. they'll still target wisp to deny max info, but daisy gets the check on the target anyway, and ends up targeting [target of town's preference].

in both cases, wisp gets redirected to someone else, so it's the same there. the difference is daisy's target. if you believe that [target of town's preference] is superior to [target of daisy's preference] - ie. if you believe that town combing through the POE and establishing the towncore over the past few dozen pages can come up with a better value investigation target than whoever daisy chooses to investigate, which I do, simply because town working together is better than one person working alone - then my strategy is superior.

you may be tempted to ask: why not have daisy investigate the target of our choice, and wisp investigates whoever they want to? Because then daisy gets redirected, and wisp investigates [target of their choice], while the investigation status of the person that town chose daisy to investigate is still unknown. so it's still [target of wisp's choice] vs [target of our choice] being better as an investigation target.

This strategy frees up the hypothetical mafia redirector to target someone other than the Wisp/Daisy pairing. If those two target different people, the mafia are forced to target one of them to limit the damage to one check. If they both target the same person, the civilians still only get one check and the mafia are free to tamper with someone else. This dynamic regarding "their choice" vs. "town's choice" is a red herring.

[Millium]

Thank you! That cleared a lot up, thankfully. And yeah, I guess y’all can add me to the Miller list then.

The above is one of the top reasons to think this slot is town, “Why?”, simply because she didn’t know what she was by name, which makes her claim for trustworthy, is she the time of person that could fake it? I don’t know

Gut feeling might be that sprityo, long con, and tony are scum. I feel really good about you and Nanook, but that might also be because you’ve been the most welcoming/informative for me.

Scum!Kit worlds, rule of 3, probably isn’t able to avoid putting a buddy in here?
Kit/Tony wolf/wolf ?

Quick Iso Dive:
Overall post is fine, can’t expect much this early in the game
Questions some early fluffy posts, good? Doesn’t assume malice good?
Gets defensive at first vote on them
Calls out Funny’s unusual claim
Kit not the redirector?
A lot of questions that don’t do much, meta gaming and such, but this game is highly mechanical
Makes an easy vote on Wigly
“all of you are suspect to me” kinda bothers me

Notes:
1. They don’t seem to focus anywhere in particular,
2. pretty NAI questions,
3. somewhat defensive at votes on them,
5. No “real” thoughts since forever really, except some tinfoils on me
6. Possible wolves with Tony

Conclusion:
If I ignore the miller “slip” I hate her, which honestly given the possibility of fake claims, that claim could very much be that, then there is nothing that screams townie to me. If someone says they feel “pure” I will fight you
Wolf Leaning

[VOTE: Kitsu] aubergine

[Millium]

Voiced suspicion is not really "bussing" anyways
Bussing is when you hard bury your partner to "look good"

[Millium]

ohh you already made that point
Nevermind

[Hally]

i could see the team being like exactly epi/alison/kitsu if kitsu is a wolf

[Millium]

i could see the team being like exactly epi/alison/kitsu if kitsu is a wolf

I dig it

[sabie12]

i could see the team being like exactly epi/alison/kitsu if kitsu is a wolf

I mean I thought alison and colin could be but hey either way I'm down with an alison vote.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i could see the team being like exactly epi/alison/kitsu if kitsu is a wolf

That's where I'm at (and it's why I wouldn't be inclined to chop Kitsu first among them). I don't particularly care about the "rule of three" [mention]Wisp[/mention], particularly given that at the time all three of those people were bottom-tier POE.

I think Epignosis and Alison can be validly linked to one another and then potentially to non-Kitsus, so there's still room for discussion there.

[Hally]

idk what to do tbh

You and Nanook were my #1s right from the start, and I’ve listened to everything you’ve said in this thread. But I can appreciate that this is not an easy game. I’ll vote with you. I’ve openly welcomed any investigation other than straight alignment copping since that wouldn’t help since I’m a miller.

And if I live through the night, I’ll happily name claim during the next day phase.

this post is honestly very weird

first post kitsu made that really struck me this way

[Hally]

i could see the team being like exactly epi/alison/kitsu if kitsu is a wolf

I mean I thought alison and colin could be but hey either way I'm down with an alison vote.

im honestly still not feeling colin as a wolf

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Colin and Tony are both in this annoying place for me where I don't really feel it, but if it's not them then I have to contend with a rougher game state. But Epignosis and Alison still work I think. If either or both is correct that then opens a door for Kitsu.

[Hally]

i could see the team being like exactly epi/alison/kitsu if kitsu is a wolf

That's where I'm at (and it's why I wouldn't be inclined to chop Kitsu first among them). I don't particularly care about the "rule of three" @Wisp, particularly given that at the time all three of those people were bottom-tier POE.

I think Epignosis and Alison can be validly linked to one another and then potentially to non-Kitsus, so there's still room for discussion there.

yea i’d wanna yeet alison and epi before kitsu i think

who else do you think fits as a third in a epi/alison world?