Jack Attack Mafia (Day 5)

#5201

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:47 am
Wisp wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:46 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:45 am LET IT RAND * assuming sabie is lying which could be the case
Why would u say this if you are town...
See what I’m saying? He says stuff that just leaves a Wolf impression, but the soft evidence is in his favor. Meh.

if it doesn't rand on a 3-3-3 it means there are presumably wolfy night actions at play. If it does, it means Jack's coin has fate in its hands. Rand better.

#5202

Guess sabie has a chance to prove her role after all.

#5203

Wisp wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:48 am wait no I am staying, nvm
[VOTE: Sabie] aubergine

fuck this site

This site is fine.

#5204

Alison is probably yelling at us

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #5205

Ok i regret that

#5206

Wisp wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:48 am wait no I am staying, nvm
[VOTE: Sabie] aubergine

fuck this site

#5207

(maybe) dying words: chop nutella for being suspicious

#5208

please give me spec chat

#5209

ohh its time, guess we pray

#5210

oh and sign up for philosopher's mafia everyone! Starts sunday night 8:30ish eastern. It'll be a blast. Light game, so post count limits.

#5211

I'm retired after this.

#5212

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:53 am I'm retired after this.

can't blame ya tbh

#5213

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:55 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:53 am I'm retired after this.
can't blame ya tbh

I'm the moderator on duty for Philosophers anyway.

#5214

Much suspense.

#5215

Day 4

The demon struggled against the golden chains. Several of copies of it lay dead all around. They looked less like demons and more like pincushions for all the swords and spears stuck in their corpses.

The blonde man smiled. “Most amusing, mongrel. It’s rare that I find a weapon I do not possess but you had two. You truly are from hell.”

“You’re not a Jack,” the demon managed to choked out. “Your presence here... This is against...the rules.”

The blonde man turned his back on the demon and shook his head. “Fool. I AM the rules.”

And with that, the blonde man used a final portal to kill his opponent, leaving not a pile of corpses but a wristwatch, shattered.

Tonystarkprime has been executed. He was False Berserker aka Jack the Ripper. Alignment: Town.

Meanwhile, an action packed Jack began to giggle, then chuckle, then cackle. His body was found with glazed over eyes and a smile on his face.

SpaceDaisy has died. She was Jack Ryan. Alignment: Town.

#5216

Probably one non-civilian in the game, a poisoner.

It isn't me.

Okay. Thanks for your efforts [mention]Spacedaisy[/mention] and [mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention]

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #5217

#5218

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:51 am (maybe) dying words: chop nutella for being suspicious

Maybe. interesting he chose to say this at the end rather than earlier.
Sigh maybe I should have gone for jay instead? I don't know.
RIP guys you both played well.

I'm falling asleep this end of day time is late for me.

#5219

There might be insight in Daisy being the poison choice. I’ll check later.

#5220

To my knowledge, the last “possible” three-player mafia team by classical POE would have to be:

JaggedJimmyJay
KitsuShel
sabie12

It’s not that. Maybe Wisp can clear that up.

Those two are the most plausible poisoners at face value, if we just follow raw mechanics. It’s not me and if I must I can provide a defense on numerous dimensions. I understand being in the pile anyway. I don’t know wtf else y’all are supposed to do.

#5221

Unless folks want to hold out hope on FG/Colin. I’m not holding my breath.

#5222

If there is a mafia, Kitsu is on it. That’s the only current night kill source, and it’s janitored. Makes perfect sense mechanically.

Given that I also think Kitsu could be 3P, that might be the most obvious choice staring me in the face.

#5223

[mention]Epignosis[/mention] if you interfered with a poisoning on N3, your target should be clear of poisoning. It still happened.

#5224

Or do you protect rather?

#5225

I suppose it's possible a tiebreak (e.g. sabie) is a decent 3P survival mechanism, in lieu of something more generic like a bulletproof vest.

#5226

I'm Tony now

#5227

M A P H I A

#5228

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:04 am I suppose it's possible a tiebreak (e.g. sabie) is a decent 3P survival mechanism, in lieu of something more generic like a bulletproof vest.

It's town in this instance as I've stated before. It's cool I can feel good I've played an honest game even if Jack didn't make an honest game.

Thanks Jack, super trollin'.

How can kitsu be a janitor killer and a poisoner?
Do you 100 percent believe wisps claims are all accurate and there isn't a godfather role?
Why should we believe you aren't the poisoner?

#5229

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:12 amHow can kitsu be a janitor killer and a poisoner?

Dunno. Limited shots of each perhaps. It'd be a relatively fitting design for a hostile independent role with a survival win condition.

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:12 amDo you 100 percent believe wisps claims are all accurate and there isn't a godfather role?

I believe Wisp, but I don't 100% trust that his results are perfectly accurate. There are too few suspects remaining. It's not hard to believe there are shenanigans there, but it's extremely hard to guess at which one(s) would be off if any are.

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:12 amWhy should we believe you aren't the poisoner?

You have no proof that I am not, and I cannot provide it. It would seem that you and I are in a very similar position. I can provide defenses for myself that folks would have to take or leave. A few that I could quickly summarize, in no particular order:

~ Jack gave non-civilians fake role claims. The role I have claimed makes a pretty terrible fake given that it does not inherently lend me any kind of "trust". It's a nonsense role that doesn't exist in 99.9% of Mafia games and will eventually lead to me drawing suspicion just because my role is weird. I also cannot prove it to be true without literally killing myself. Moreover I did not make this role up myself; it is a completely random assortment of concepts that I quite simply do not come up with. I don't join a game, immediately decide I want to fake a claim in my first post, and then come up with this shit. Folks can play WIFOM with that all they want, but from my perspective that's pretty self-explanatory. It was also something Tony seemed to understand about my style -- I don't tend to make *zany wacky moves* when I can just do my thing the normal JJJ way and usually win anyway.

~ I have been the game's loudest proponent of the theory that a mafia team does not even exist. This theory, whether it is right or wrong, inherently demands civilians place greater priority in their consideration of third party threats. If I am the poisoner, that's me waving at everyone screaming instead of allowing them to quietly mow through the original POE group uninterrupted. Again, I am just not the type to add that kind of unnecessary adventure to my play.

~ I played my arse off in the early and middle stages of this game trying to solve for the mafia team. If I am an independent poisoner, I am not aware when the game begins that there is no mafia team. I played very loudly and in direct threat to what I perceived to be their most likely players -- meaning I was not concerned with the potential repercussions. I could have been night killed, something a hostile independent never wants, and I played with that energy anyway. You'll note particularly in night phases how I have crammed as much analytic effort as possible into the game to isolate possible team combinations and eliminate suspects. That is legacy work and is meant to guide my teammates if I drop dead.

My teammates. Civilians.

There is WIFOM for its own sake and there is just trying to solve a game. I think it's visibly evident that I have been doing the latter.

#5230

Wisp can hopefully provide some crucial guidance here, whoever he decides to check.

#5231

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:37 am Wisp can hopefully provide some crucial guidance here, whoever he decides to check.

He now says that was a limited shot power.

#5232

Oh yeah that's right.

Well if we choose to take those checks as they are the pool of suspects is pretty small here (for me, just you and Kitsu). If I can find a moment to dedicate to a poisoner-specific hunt, I will see if I can glean anything about the more difficult realities where a Wisp check is wrong (or Wisp himself is a poisoner).

#5233

Lolololol

Y’all really had me fooled. Fabulous actors. One person finds out that there’s a role specifically mentioning poisoning and doesn’t reveal it. Person who has poison preventing role doesn’t say anything, and leaves us in the dark. Now two people have been poisoned in a row.

Maybe it’s a slow effect/delayed kill. The maf has potentially lost two people in the ones I vigged. Best case scenario, there’s one left. Worst cases there’s half of y’all, and I’m flabbergasted.

#5234

I also don’t buy that there are two characters with the same name, when there are a plethora of Jacks out in the universe to be used. If JJJ is scum, you’ve played an absolutely brilliant game, sir. If you’re truly town, I’ma laugh at your POE lists and first couple of day antics. (I’m being playful and mean absolutely nothing disrespect by that)

#5235

That’s the most annoying thing. Folks are going to act like it’s somehow POE’s fault that this game isn’t even *Mafia*. If Colin and/or FG really were mafia, then POE is why they are dead.

#5236

Alison, Wisp, Epi

#5237

That's who I protected. Going back to the wilderness till tomorrow. Sending in protect now.

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #5238

[mention]Wisp[/mention] are you out of shots? If so who do you think I should target? LC?

#5239

in the off chance a real kill happens? Long con is my best bet?
[mention]nutella[/mention]

I have no reason to believe I still dont have my vest, so long con can protect Epi/Kitsu?
Epi's action is a day action, so I will wait there

#5240

like im just at a loss right now

#5241

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:40 pm Here's a rainbow list for all you wondering:

hally
wisp

long con
jaggedjimmyjay

sabie
kitsushel

epignosis
nutella

Alison
TonyStarkPrime
ColinIsCool

[SNIP]

I was looking for any potential motivators for a poisoner to take out Daisy before Wisp. I don't see much given that a lot of her recent play was mechanically-driven. This rainbow list is from Night 2 and is the only half-relevant thing I can find. She may have just been seen as less likely to draw any kind of protection.

#5242

That's the shitty thing about trying to hunt for independents: there is really no good way to go about it. Often the best you can do is kill analysis, for all of its flaws, and even that hardly applies here. So we're left with vague notions of "who seems off" or "whose claim seems the most fake".

Things to consider in your future game design outings, gang. Civilians can't read minds.

#5243

Wisp wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:56 pm like im just at a loss right now

Pretty much how I'm feeling at this point. I wondered if I should have picked jay in the tie, but if he is town then I'd be saying the same thing about tony. Sighhhh

#5244

Is there a good reason I should believe Kitsu is not an enemy of the civilian faction?

#5245

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:35 pm Is there a good reason I should believe Kitsu is not an enemy of the civilian faction?

I've shared my thoughts on this. I feel like her role sounds like 3p or mafia more than town.

#5246

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:48 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:35 pm Is there a good reason I should believe Kitsu is not an enemy of the civilian faction?
I've shared my thoughts on this. I feel like her role sounds like 3p or mafia more than town.

And I responded each and every time that I’m the town vig, and I can only make a kill every other night. I’d suggest that you reread the flavor in the write ups, but then I’m sure I’d just hear about how much you guys here don’t “do”/“like” that sort of thing.

I’m going to constantly kicking myself for not keeping my vote on Epi. I had such a strong feeling that if Alison flopped town, then Epi was maf. I’m mad that I let myself be swayed.

#5247

Also, if I had been maf or 3P, I certainly wouldn’t have chosen those particular targets.

#5248

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:33 am @Epignosis if you interfered with a poisoning on N3, your target should be clear of poisoning. It still happened.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:34 am Or do you protect rather?

I treat during the Day.

#5249

KitsuShel wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:28 am I also don’t buy that there are two characters with the same name, when there are a plethora of Jacks out in the universe to be used. If JJJ is scum, you’ve played an absolutely brilliant game, sir. If you’re truly town, I’ma laugh at your POE lists and first couple of day antics. (I’m being playful and mean absolutely nothing disrespect by that)

To be fair

Spoiler: show

#5250

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:56 pm Civilians can't read minds.

I guess you're not on my level.

Which Jack must go?