Philosophers' Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Benson]

In case anyone wanted to know what the radish flip was once more

Spoiler: show

[iaafr]

Look it’s not 100% lock

But realistically it’s like 95-99% lock and that’s more than good enough for this game state imo

if this is your attitude hammering amy should be no different from hammering protocultures rn right

[Benson]

Rabbit you have like 2 posts left lmao

Unless I mathed bad

[iaafr]

Rabbit you have like 2 posts left lmao

Unless I mathed bad

yes i've been aware of this

[nutella]

im drinking an absolutely monstrous creation of a frankencocktail and im giggling uncontrollably and im ready to yeet amy into the sun

[tutuu]

here is a picture of amy IRL

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Look it’s not 100% lock

But realistically it’s like 95-99% lock and that’s more than good enough for this game state imo

if this is your attitude hammering amy should be no different from hammering protocultures rn right

I think Proto is strictly better tbh

But yes I will absolutely drop a hammer lulz

[nutella]

here is a picture of amy IRL

dkafhlgdjhadhsf;asdlhfas;dlfkhd this is the content im here for rn

[tutuu]

omg ilysm nutella

[iaafr]

case enclosed:

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

didnt realize zack was a philosopher

i've always preferred the classics

anyways: hello and sorry and advance to those who don't know me. i help run mafia universe and i assure you it's not a position i attained through prowess at the game

there's like a 70% chance i'm legit just gonna fuck off until d1 glgl

SCUMCLAIM LMFAOOO

[tutuu]

LOL

[nutella]

holy shit ahahhaha

[Hally]

i’m gonna take a break from posting here for a while, sorry

almost capped anyway

gl

[Amy]

these memes are fucking hilarious and also i'm town

and i have a really fucking stupid way of proving it

i just want dizzy to check in first

11/60

[Amy]

did anyone ever compile a full list of flavor claims? ping me if so

otherwise gonna get a snack and dig in myself

12/60

[Amy]

changed my mind it's 4 am and words are running together

so let's do thid

i have mechanical information that is potentially relevant; i will not be claiming it until dizzy checks in

i would STRONGLY ADVISE you not hammer me before then

13/60

[Dyslexicon]

I’m checking in now.

I also have a piece of intel.

[Dyslexicon]

ok i buy this

wwh town

I have a 100% knowledge that wwh is town and also her whole role. I didn’t know she would be investigated by Tutu, so it feels kind of wasted now.

I have no more powers so you can all yeet me if you must. But I’m town.

[Amy]

dizzy please claim your full flavor

14/60

[Dyslexicon]

Omg what if I could’ve targeted a dead player with my power, I could’ve checked MR. Too late, but that would probably be better.

I’m playing this on my tiny phone in between holiday. I know it’s annoying/not very helpful, but I decided to keep playing, though I have minimal knowledge about what’s going on in the game.

I feel the poe is wrong though. I don’t know proto’s alignment, but he really don’t seem like scum to me. I don’t know the reasons people are cleared or not, but something is probably wrong. Unless there actually is only one mafia left and that is randomly proto, but I have my doubts.

I would look into both Hally and Nut, but I don’t have much basis for that. I might be able to have a couple of hours with my computer this night, but I won’t say «wait for me» cause that’s not fair. Not your fault I don’t have minimal time to put into this game.

[Dyslexicon]

dizzy please claim your full flavor

14/60

What am I allowed to claim? I’ll check lol

[Amy]

dizzy please claim your full flavor

14/60

What am I allowed to claim? I’ll check lol

name, country, school

15/60

[Dyslexicon]

Ok, I’m Søren Kirkegaard, Danish existentialist. I have investigative abilities. Did not go with my original role.

[Dyslexicon]

I already quoted Kirkegaard if that matters

[Amy]

ok

my mechanical information is not relevant

i would prefer not to elaborate further as it may become relevant in the future

good night

16/60

[Dyslexicon]

Wonder if I’m Søren just because I have an ø on my keyboard already =p

[Dyslexicon]

LOL

Tutu, sorry I have to ask you, but any directon to or writing of a recap post about who’s clear for what reason, claims etc, would be helpful.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Well

Now I’m probably moving into tinfoil worlds cause like

This is almost certainly too much town power for what tony promised pre game lulz

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

[mention]Dyslexicon[/mention] who was your N1?

[Dyslexicon]

@Dyslexicon who was your N1?

I didn’t have a N1. I also don’t have any more powers.

[Dyslexicon]

I’m unclear about the claiming rules tbh.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Ah so it was a one shot?

Ok. What is WWH’s role?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’m unclear about the claiming rules tbh.

You can claim everything except the N0 decision

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

And obvious stuff like don’t quote the GM of course

But flavor and role and results can be claimed

[Dyslexicon]

I think I straight out wasted my ability =( Sorry you all had to deal with this rare low effort Dizzy this game. I feel extra useless cause it seems the game is wrapped up in claims and powers and who did what, and I don’t know what’s going on with that.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I think I straight out wasted my ability =( Sorry you all had to deal with this rare low effort Dizzy this game. I feel extra useless cause it seems the game is wrapped up in claims and powers and who did what, and I don’t know what’s going on with that.

It’s cool, would be good if you can claim what result you got though, just to be thorough

[Dyslexicon]

Ah so it was a one shot?

Ok. What is WWH’s role?

Vote stealer. I’m thinking about roles that would be typically more scum sided, like post count reduction (Amy) and redirection (Hally) and this vote stealing. Don’t know if assuming alignment from roles like that will work.

[Dyslexicon]

I don’t know what more I can do to help. Please let me know what. Hopefully I’ll have the time to sit down and at least do some isos or something this rl night (it’s like mid day here now). Right now I’m going on an excursion again.

Think I’m at
13/30 right now.

[Benson]

Dizzy can you hard claim everything about your role. I know we can infer already but I think it should be clear.

[Benson]

I'm curious about what mechanical info Amy could have even have had

[protocultures]

Dont vote me yet pls, I have a wall post in progress setting it all out

[Benson]

You have like two votes on you and no one's here lol

[TonyStarkPrime]

Dyslexicon has been modkilled for discussing decisions. This sucks, it was completely accidental and a minor error, but the decisions rule is important to game integrity. He was Søren Kierkegaard - TOWN.

This is not ideal. Please do not discuss modkills. With 11 players left, 6 is majority. If anyone wants to discuss this further, please message me or the MoD for the game.

[Benson]

Maybe we should also not just write Colin off yet.

[Benson]

Yikes
I was about to say I was feeling good about him too

[Benson]

I think hammering this morning isn't a terrible idea because I'm running out of posts, and so is rabbit (if not already).

Colin, if you are town I think you have to make a sacrifice. Nothing you can do will get you out of the PoE and the other roles in the game are in conflict with yours. Maybe Proto has pocketed me hard but I think we check you first out of the two. You may say that you're a confirmed tracker. You may say that trackers are underpowered on wolf teams. Both true. But I think it's just clear that unless we are in my tin foil world the wolves were neutered anyways.

[VOTE: Coliniscool] aubergine

Signal that you're okay with this by voting yourself.

[protocultures]

Lets break down Night 1 claims again.

Please dont skim or glaze over this post and work through it all.

I want to make a distinction between who is mechanically cleared and who is not.

We also need to make a distinction between individual internal POV and objective external POE, because we have no way of knowing whether your claim is real or not.

This might be important later when we get flips of specific people, because there ARE links that can be made. I suspect when I die, people will read this again.

We assume at least 1 mafia KP in the night.

Where did it go?

1. LC claims vest ping - unconfirmed
2. Benson claims save on Tutuu - unconfirmed
3. Alison claims save on Tim through RNG. - confirmed
4. Master Radishes dies. – confirmed

Now, Nutella claims Vigi Jan shot onto Master Radishes.

In this world, we need to try and find where the other KP went then.

LC claims ping, could be legit - unconfirmed

Alison could have saved Tim - unconfirmed

Benson could have saved Tutuu - unconfirmed

Unless mafia have more than 1KP at night, now it means Mafia and Nutella could NOT have stacked onto Master Radishes because LC claims ping. Where does the 3rd KP come from?

Now after Nutella claims the shot, and LC claims the ping, Hally claims they redirected Radishes to LC.

Why did Hally select Radishes? Would MR carry the factional KP? Meh, arguments re why they select MR. I can maybe buy it, sure.

Why did they redirect to LC instead of Bob or someone else? Meh, arguments for why LC, I can maybe buy it too. Not super great, but I am not wanting to suspect Hally yet. Remember, I hard townread Hally day 1.

Now lets break down their posts in order.

I used my 1 shot doc on tutuu if we're all claiming everything

Hoping he was the MK?

No, I was.

wdym?

I mean they broke my vest.

you were informed of that?

ok radishes was a wolf then and you’re lock clear

@Timsup2nothin why did you lie about your peek?

Notice they LOCK CLEAR LC. How can they do this without mechanically confirming that MR was mafia. Hally cannot. It’s a pocket onto LC.
No info is out yet that proves MR was mafia.

hard claim town redirector

i redirected radishes to long con last night. radishes was mafia and i jacked his kill

GOTTEM

Again, how does Hally know MR is mafia? They still don’t, nobody does. Even if Nutella is real, there is a 30% chance MR was town. If MR is town, LC is not cleared at all. Town Hally should be careful about lock clearing LC if they aren’t 100% sure that MR was mafia, however that throws shade on their self clearing claim.

i love how i somehow redirected the maf kill to the one town with a vest

I mean uh

Given amount of town KP around having a vest isn’t necessarily clearing imo

it’s clearing because my role specifies that if i try to redirect mafia to another mafia my action will fail

my action went through, thus lc is town because radishes was not

So they claim LC is clear on the basis that their power would fail if it redirected mafia to mafia. Hally COULD clear LC from an internal POV if they knew MR was actually mafia. However nobody knows whether MR is mafia. Its all a guess on Hally’s part. Again, why do they clear LC here?

i love how i somehow redirected the maf kill to the one town with a vest

Town redirector sounds so OP. Like isn't that just a wolf role usually.
Not calling you a liar (yet), but that role is whack to give to the town.

So does this mean that MR could only have submitted the kill? Like he couldn't be a PR otherwise that would've been redirected in stead, yeah? Perplexing.

how could i be lying

lc says his vest broke. i made radishes target him. radishes was carrying the kill and i made him kill lc

i’m literally lock clear

Again, we have zero corroboration that Hally even targeted MR in the first place.

LC can be both town or mafia, they aren’t necessarily linked to Hally, but their mafia equity goes up if Hally flips red.

Nutella can be both town or mafia, and aren’t necessarily linked to Hally, but their mafia equity also goes up if Hally flips red. I say these two are more linked, because they are both pushing hard for the world where MR is “obviously mafia”.

Trying to define the large but finite worlds with 1 mafia KP (might have missed a few)

• Nutella is town vigi and shot mafia MR. Mafia (not MR) shot town LC. Hally claim is fake because they claim redirected MR and they confirm the redriect worked.
• Nutella is town vigi and shot mafia MR. Mafia (not MR) shot town LC. Hally claim is real because they claim redirected MR but the redirect did nothing and they think the redirect worked.
• Nutella is town vigi and shot mafia MR. Mafia (not MR) shot town Tutuu (saved by Benson). Hally claim is fake because they claim redirected MR and LC is fake re ping.
• Nutella is town vigi and shot mafia MR. Mafia (not MR) shot town Tim (saved by Alison). Hally claim is fake because they claim redirected MR and LC is fake re ping.
• Nutella is town vigi and shot mafia MR. MP is carrying faction KP and shot town LC. Hally claim is fake because nothing to redirect.
• Nutella is town vigi and shot mafia MR. MP is carrying faction KP and shot someone else. Hally claim is real because they claim redirected MR to LC who claims ping.

Six worlds where Nutella is town vigi and shot mafia MR (not carrying KP). Hally can be mafia in 4 of 6 them, and LC mafia in 2 of them.

• Nutella is town vigi and shot town MR. Mafia shot town LC. Hally claim is real and and thinks they redirected to LC.
• Nutella is town vigi and shot town MR. Mafia shot town LC. Hally claim is fake.
• Nutella is town vigi and shot town MR. Mafia shot town Tutuu (saved by Benson). Hally claim is fake because they claim redirected MR and LC is fake re ping.
• Nutella is town vigi and shot town MR. Mafia shot town Tim (saved by Alison). Hally claim is fake because they claim redirected MR and LC is fake re ping.

Four worlds where Nutella is town vigi and shot town MR. Hally can be mafia in three of the four worlds, and LC mafia in 2 of them.

• Nutella is mafia and shot town MR. Mafia (not MR) shot town LC. Hally claim is fake.
• Nutella is mafia and shot town MR. Mafia (not MR) shot town Tutuu (saved by Benson). Hally claim is fake because they claim redirected MR and LC claim is fake re ping.
• Nutella is mafia and shot town MR. Mafia (not MR) shot town Tim (saved by Alison). Hally claim is fake because they claim redirected MR and LC claim is fake re ping.
• Nutella is mafia and shot town MR. Mafia (not MR) shot town LC. Hally claim is real and thinks they redirected KP to LC.

Four worlds where Nutella is mafia. Hally can be mafia in three of them, and LC can be mafia in 2 of them. Here Hally and Nutella are linked because Hally being town requires MR to actually have KP to redirect.

I have counted worlds where MR had no active KP role, mafia hit LC, and Hally *thinks* they redirected MR to LC, but from how they said their role works, I infer they would receive a message saying redirect failed – not too sure.

• Nutella is mafia and shot town MR (vigi). MR shot town LC. Hally claim is real KP was redirected to town LC.
• There is a world where Nutella is mafia and Hally is town, but this requires MR to be a town vigi, and we have too many vigis in this world.

Some of these worlds have Nutella, Hally AND LC being mafia. I don’t like those worlds because this means TSP rolled 5 mafia into the game. As such, we should discount those worlds too.
Then there is the world which everyone currently thinks is real and most likely

Town vigi Nutella hits mafia MP, which just happens to clean thekill, and MP just happens to be carrying faction KP, who also just happened to be targeted by town Hally who just happens to redirect to town LC who just happens to be BP.

This is the extremely neat little world that we are being force fed

The chance of THIS happening is the real tin foil imo, not one of the many many other possible words with any combo of fake claims contained therein. Everyone seems to be buying into it, and I don’t like it.

Hally claims this is a complicated fake claim and they couldn’t do it. I say this is nonsense, the claim is child’s play once Nutella claims the shot and LC claims the ping. It makes town look for one less mafia for a start (great) and then you are “cleared” from your claim.

There are ALL of these possible scenarios and Hally is saying Nutella is lock cleared and LC is lock cleared. This ONLY happens in the exact world explained above where MP was carrying faction KP.

Also -

Where are the fake claims in this game? Why would mafia just roll over and make weak claims and wait to be picked off one by one in POE while town all clear themselves? I haven’t played with most of this lobby, but from the sounds of it, its full of people who play in champs. I cant see a mafia team rolling over and waiting to die in POE. Especially on back to back hits of mafia. They need to go deep deep in the game to win. They need to hide. They need to try and clear themselves and watch town eat eachother. They need a credible clearing claim that puts them above suspicion.

Its possible Hally is just town and their reads were great and I am a giant PITA. What I dislike is how they keep saying they and various other people are LOCK clear from things where they simply are not. Its like gaslighting town by saying it over and over again to push them out of potential POE. If Hally were town, they wouldn’t be saying this imo.

@Dyslexicon ppl incorrectly think you softed doc. can you tell them that you didn’t

can you also get in here we killed three wolves already and mech cleared like 5 ppl

life is good and i want u to be here to experience it

Nutella, Hally and LC are most certainly NOT mech cleared. At all.
Look at Hally’s iso. They keep repeating it like brain washing. They sussed Radishes, radishes was the kill, they redirect to LC, it clears Nutella and LC. Nothing is cleared and nothing is corroborated, except by LC’s ping claim.

there's a world where like

town has so much powerful roles

and mafia has low power roles

but its 5 of them. 5 mafia

and like there is a combination of mafia team combination like nutella + hally + LC (and MR being town) and it just makes my head spin

like, we should probably consider a world where there are 5 maf cuz it becomes a completely different game? idk, should we?

i mean look at all this town power

Tomorrow I'm going back to considering my theories where the wolves came in ready with their game changing fake claims.
Because we really shouldn't just base the rest of this game on those claims being legit. Like what if MR *was* town? We're probably fucked but I at least want to talk about it.

Anyways, good night.

if ppl start tinfoiling that me/nut/lc is the exact world and we all came up with fake claims to win as maf i like... dont know what to say

all three of us would have to be maf in that world

it’s not possible

Pushing agenda that this is tinfoil. There can be 0, 1, 2 or even 3 maf in this scenario. It absolutely does NOT need to be all 3 of them in on it. Its why it’s a good claim. You end up pocketing the town who corroborate your fake claim. Nutella could be town vigi and LC could have a vest pinged. Does not mean MR was mafia or that Hally redirected MR to LC or that MR was even mafia.

What I do know is that Dizzy has a sus on Hally and/or Nutella, and Dizzy has lots of meta on Hally.

I feel the poe is wrong though. I don’t know proto’s alignment, but he really don’t seem like scum to me. I don’t know the reasons people are cleared or not, but something is probably wrong. Unless there actually is only one mafia left and that is randomly proto, but I have my doubts.

I would look into both Hally and Nut, but I don’t have much basis for that. I might be able to have a couple of hours with my computer this night, but I won’t say «wait for me» cause that’s not fair. Not your fault I don’t have minimal time to put into this game.

I tend to agree, something feels off here, and I want to look at Hally first. Not a kill, just a cop check.

Also, nobody has even tested Hally’s redirection power is real. One way to do this is to ask Hally to redirect from confirmed town to confirmed town. Maybe something like Tutuu to Nanook?

Why is this good? It helps to clear Hally partially, since currently there is currently zero corroboration for them even having this redirection power in the first place. Literally anyone can make this claim. It’s a free claim for mafia to make. At least by checking they have the power, it would have to mean that mafia rolled this power to begin with AND that Hally is fake claiming it.

Colin could also do this to confirm who Hally redirected.

TL;DR people regret not killing me already and wish I would shut up.

[protocultures]

[mention]Amy[/mention]

Dizzy has claimed... you should probably claim to reduce chances of being yeeted today. Just my opinion.

Would be helpful if Tutuu and Nanook pushed for Amy full claiming or not full claiming.

[Benson]

Thank you for writing out some of the things I was too lazy to.

Btw Colin kinda confirmed Hally's role. He tracked Hally, who redirected his action to WWH, who visited Dizzy; Colin received a result of just "Dizzy".
They could be in cahoots but that's unlikely I suppose. Also, I have no doubt Hally is a redirector of some sort.

Why are you advocating to waste tutuu's peek? That wouldn't be good.

[tutuu]

honestly dizzy getting flipped is pro-town. him being in the poe and all. free yeet