Philosophers' Mafia [ENDGAME]

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Oh yeh

Hm

[Hally]

idk how you think me/radishes is w/w ever. that is what you’re suggesting here right?

we already established that we were willing to believe in bussing early on, yes? sure radishes contributed a hell of a lot more than KZA, but he was a highly consensus scumread by basically the entire game. if radishes thought he was dead and buried, it makes sense for his teammates to bus him and go deep.

but radishes was also pushing hard on sc from the start and then also me. like, you think that was all theater and we were cross-bussing? and then in that world, i tried to nk lc because ???

idk like, i’m not sure how you think that’s likely. i don’t think radishes would ever push me/sc like that as w/w and i wouldn’t push him like that either. i can’t prove that but like... idk i’m not sure how one comes to that conclusion when reading D1

also why does tutuu redpeek a teammate as a wolf? i don’t understand. she was under zero pressure to have to do that

bob also felt fairly consensus? tbh this is the part of my tutuu tinfoil that i'm least sure of. i'd have to reread from d1, probably, because i do agree that there's little motivation to do that. the issue is that if i clear her i start running out of wolves. somebody's gotta be a wolf.

i don’t see why tutuu would do that idk but maybe i totally am misconstruing her scum range

the mech thing iaafr has going for him is that if he was the last wolf alive wwh would have died instead of colin due to my redirect. i suppose he can be a second wolf in some world but idfk what that is

yes i noted this above. i'm not 100% sure who rabbit would fit as a wolf with; tbh i lean town on rabbit anyways? but he's not out of the PoE off a single redirect. i honestly just refuse to believe the game is imbalanced enough that there's only 4 wolves with THIS much apparent town power running around. it doesn't make sense.

idk there can be at most two and i’m not sure what the possible worlds there are

here’s the thing: i’m town. to me radishes is lock scum and nut and lc are always town. always

who is a wolf then?

let me see if i can humor you

in a world where you/nut/lc are all confirmed town and radishes is scum... throw nanook and WWH onto the townpile for reasons i've already stated. that leaves exactly iaafr/tutuu. which off the top of my head doesn't seem like an IMpossible world? but it'd be odd for sure. it at the very least checks out that tutuu would be the one carrying kp in that pairing; if that's the world you buy into, you'd always flip tutuu over iaafr anyways because you have mech confirmation that iaafr can't be the last wolf. tutuu either ends the game or you can then proceed to flip iaafr afterwards

a question for you, and forgive me if you've already answered: why did you redirect colin away from you? i understand that you potentially didn't even think about colin's ability to clear you as a villager, but why did you think that was the best use of the redirect that night?

i don’t even remember. iirc it was because i had him very high on my possible wolves list and wanted to see if i could catch him killing by redirecting him to wwh, who was also in the poe at the time and was never gonna die at night except via my redirect. the other thing i considered was redirecting wwh to colin. idr why i didn’t do that

i didn’t think the point of the plan was to clear me or else i wouldnt have done it. as i understood it the point was to confirm colin had a track so that’s what i did. if i had known i was supposed to be getting checked i wouldn’t have done it but idk it made sense to me at the time so i could see if he had kp since he could be a mafia tracker and still give a real result

[Amy]

going to try very briefly entertaining a town radishes, 3 wolves remaining world

if radishes is a villager, there is ALWAYS at least 1 wolf between nutella/hally; either hally lied about their redirect, or nutella is not town vig.

if nutella is a wolf, tutuu is almost certainly one; i'm not sold on the existence of godfathers and i somewhat think they're even more unlikely in the 5 wolf world.

is nutella/hally/tutuu a possible world, mechanically speaking? maybe. it would essentially mean they've been hard powerwolfing the entire game. nutella is obviously who i would flip last there.

i think you also have to reintroduce LC as a potential wolf if hally flips wolf and we think we're in the 3 wolf world, but i think he's less likely

weirdly enough i think iaafr doesn't really fit here? given how hard he's gone after both nutella AND hally, it seems like a weird place for a partner to position himself if the plan is powerwolfing

nanook and wwh probably still clear

conclusion: sure do hope we're not in this world tbh

15/30

link: i see your post but i want a beverage, gimme a bit

[Long Con]

Full disclosure: I have been nightkilled on Night 1 before.

[Long Con]

link: i see your post but i want a beverage, gimme a bit

Nice... I am on my 5th or 6th beverage, I think.

[WerewolfHunter]

9

I'm more jusr currently waiting for night to be over right now. I'm really just hoping we aren't so far off track with choosing who to yeet yet I still think we will ultimately win in the end

talk to me very briefly. what does the gamestate look like from your point of view? where do you think we should go next?

13/30

10

I think we can mechanically solve this game. Except for nks we should have stuck closer to the order I had a day or so ago

[Amy]

An open letter to the wolfteam, regardless of your number or identity:

Kill me. You know you want to. It fits with your pattern of nightkills: Tim and Colin were both mechanically unconfirmed and fairly firmly in the PoE, and if you tried to kill Long Con, he fits the bill too. You know I'm on the right track, or nearly there; given that I'm the only mechanically "unconfirmed" player remaining, you and I both know that you've pulled some shenanigans to make the mechanics align in your favor, and you must not like that I'm sticking my nose where it's currently being stuck. But that's life.

Killing me was your win condition anyways - you simply wanted to do it in the cold light of day. Give into temptation and do it under cover of darkness. Not only will it throw the town into chaos, but it'll boost my ego to dangerous levels, which would objectively be extremely entertaining.

Of course, now that I've written this open letter, you don't want to kill me. You see this as a challenge. You could be boring and kill Nanook, sure - but Nanook supports your paradigm. Nanook's been pushing the quickhammer gamestate, and judging by the pattern of nightkills, you're perfectly happy with the quickhammer gamestate and see no reason to challege it. Killing Nanook and leaving me alive challenges your gamestate.

But is that what I really think? You must be asking yourselves whether or not I actually want to die. Do I think the continued survival of a cleared slot is worth trying to draw a nightkill over? Or is this all a game of reverse psychology? If Tutuu is town, this game is doubly dangerous, because she's an alignment cop... that I think is mafia. Any possible permutations involving a v!Tutuu world must be even more interesting and nerve-wracking.

But what do I know? I simply want you to kill me.

Enjoy your wine.

- Amy A. Ampharos, esq.

16/30

[nutella]

i........ can see iaafr and/or tutuu worlds yeah. but we always resolve you first <3

[Amy]

i........ can see iaafr and/or tutuu worlds yeah. but we always resolve you first <3

hally's redirecting me, yeah? so we should know tomorrow morning that we're not in the "amy's the last wolf and has just been cruising" world; furthermore, the nightkills are completely asinine in that world

the fact that anyone itg thinks that i wouldn't just kill benson n2 and tutuu n3 as the last wolf left is frankly pretty absurd. killing tim and colin would hurt me more than it would help me, because it both narrows the PoE and helps maintain a threadstate where non-mech-cleared players are just getting conveyor belt dunked one after another. there's no way for me to win off those kills. unless you think i drank an entire bottle of WIFOM, there's no reason for me to make those kills as a lone wolf - and i'm not a wifom killer. i don't think it ever really works.

tbh though i don't particularly care what your read on me is. i just need you to realize that SOMEONE is deep, and i need you to figure out who it is

please remind me why you're hard clearing hally.

17/30

[Amy]

every path my brain wanders down ends up on a team with tutuu on it, because i don't know how to FULLY explain the nightkills otherwise

so barring new information drastically shifting worldviews, that's where i go tomorrow aorn

18/30

[nutella]

hally is where i would go if you-iaafr-tutuu fails ig

i just don't see their perspective on like anything theyve posted in this entire game ever coming from a wolf

[iaafr]

ngl Amy tutuu thunderdome sounds kinda hype

[Long Con]

Nutella, were you cleared last night somehow?

[Long Con]

Also! In light of Amy's open letter, I would like to also invite the scum team to try to kill me. Maybe you would be successful. Why not give it a go, and make this interesting?

[nutella]

tutuu peeked me green


tutuu could be a wolf though lol

[iaafr]

inb4 wwh the godfather votestealer

[iaafr]

(still think its amy tho)

[iaafr]

or nanook tbh

maybe redir nanook to amy lets get wild

[iaafr]

Three town (IAAFR tutuu radishes) down, too many more to go

just gonna note randomly that this pinged me as potentially scum with radishes (because i dont think radishes has been nearly as towny as me and tutuu and this kind of early declaration of 3 townreads comes from scum a decent amount) but this is like

an extremely weak read

posting it anyway because why not

I wasn’t actually planning to pay attention to this game until like D3 but are you guys nutso IAAFR is like hard clear

He’s also probably town


Tutu is also pretty town based off the three posts of hers I read


I’m doing it dad I’m doing a mafia

nanook my dude are you wolfing

Three town (IAAFR tutuu radishes) down, too many more to go

wow ok so you are wolfing

seriously nanook, there is no way you have a town read on radishes for what he posted up to here

just... no

just finished page 4

tutuu seems like obvious town!tutuu to me. she’s just overflowing with towniness in the same way as space invaders

iaafr idk yet even though he posted a fair bit. same with tim

benson i wanna say is town. alison i also wanna say is town even though she is a scary wolf. she seems really towny to me so far though

nanook is actually giving me really wolfy vibes off his first two posts

that’s all that sticks out atm

@hally what if we were just right here

30/30

amy nanook thunderdome? even though amy just kinda softcleared nanook?

[iaafr]

maybe the sole purpose of amys role was to misclear nanook

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Hi, I’m nanook, well known user of silent day vig shots on my partners, AMA

[Amy]

rabbit what the flying fuck are you doing

i understand you can't answer this question but jesus christ dude

19/30

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

rabbit what the flying fuck are you doing

i understand you can't answer this question but jesus christ dude

19/30

Whenever people sus me for let’s say questionable reasons I like to pretend it’s to keep me from being NKed


Thanks rabbit I appreciate you boo

[Amy]

nanook where are you at

does any of the shit i've posted make sense?

20/30

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

nanook where are you at

does any of the shit i've posted make sense?

20/30

Tbh with you’ve ive only really skimmed it

I’ll try to take a closer look before night is over but I’m not gonna promise anything lol

Assuming I’m not Nked I will take a closer look at some time tomorrow real time tho

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Fuck it, can't sleep anyways.

I reserve the right to go "well that was dumb, nvm" in the morning

And the caveat that for this exercise I'm just assuming you're town for the sake of argument

here's a potential solve: radishes wolf. hally wolf. tutuu wolf. this solves a lot of the issues we've been having with regards to "holy balls there's a lot of town power". hally's really a redirector, but a wolf redirector; tutuu's role is something else entirely, god only knows what it is. i think the speed at which the game is progressing can largely be attributed to those two (and iaafr, but iaafr feels pretty antiligned with hally lol) and the lack of reevaluation fits. if wolves are killing strong PRs, why are they alive? why are they killing from the bottom of the PoE with a fucking ALIGNMENT COP still alive? cause the alignment cop's a wolf

Emphasized is the most compelling thing here for me tbh. Like...you're not wrong there's a lot of town power claimed. Tutu and Hally being mafia, with hally being a redirector and tutu being...something, would solve a lot of that. It's also kinda janky to have your role and tutu's in the same setup. If this is the case, tutu may be a rolecop-esque thing that gets nationality as part of her role check, if she outed someone before they claimed on D3...which I actually can't remember if she did or not. If she didn't tho that would lend a good deal of strength to this theory imo. I'm too lazy to go digging rn, encourage you or someone else to look into it tho.

You're also right the kills make sense for scum that doesn't care about checks, i.e. a team of two including tutu and/or a solo scum with a godfather-esque role. Tim I can kinda get if they thought he was lying about what he could invent, but like...Colin is a *fine* kill, he was a tracker, but it's certainly a kill that says scum is more worried about track results than cop ones. Benson never being NKed after claiming doc is also pretty uh...well I guess it worked out for them in the end but it's pretty fucking weird.


Reading further I think I agree with you about Nutella, I've been at a similar place for a day or two now. Nutella being mafia is just...it's a really fucking weird world, to the point I probably wouldn't consider it until f3.


Not particularly interested in entertaining three mafia alive worlds, for similar reasons that I think Nutella is probably just town. Like...if there's three mafia alive and Nutella is one of them I probably just lose to that shit, gg ezclap get em next time.



So yeah, some of your shit definitely makes sense, and assuming Hally clears you from being lone surviving scum*, I'm probably going to have to explore tutu/rabbit**/hally worlds, despite otherwise having hard town reads on all three of them. Which would be pretty lolme tbh. If I'm alive tomorrow I'll probably explore some of this with you, but uh...I also have to weigh you potentially being in a team of two as well, which I haven't really thought about at all, so. probably gonna do that until a potential tomorrow though I'm not that tired kek


Also mostly unrelated but as I was writing this I realized that rabbit is maybe not hard confirmed not last remaining scum, if his unclaimable role is in fact a block of some variety it's possible he blocked hally the night she redirected him and thus "cleared" himself. Rule 11c suggests this is possible. I still think he's likely not scum, especially not last remaining scum, but uh...purely mechanically he's not as clear as I thought he was.


*technically you could have some kind of roleblock maybe, but a godfather/odd night post adder/even night post reducer that also has blocking power is like...weird. Seems unlikely.

**still think rabbit's breaking post count was super townie indicative tho, tbh

[tutuu]

26/30

Hally can redirect Amy to me to flip me tonight to clear me

I can also peek LC (who hasnt claimed nationality) to confirm my role

Thing is I wanna peek Hally tonight

So if Amy is town she is sabotaging by pushing me over Hally

Regardless I dont think she is, she was AFK for the first 3 days due to devastating start for mafia, now shes tryharding because she has a chance to shine. Me and Hally have been way more consistent in our energy

[Amy]

you understand that redirecting me to you does not flip you if hally doesn't reveal their target

because redirecting me to someone does not kill them

because i am not a wolf

in the current gamestate literally the only way i'd expect you to die overnight is if you're town and if wolves try to predict hally's redirect to frame me

which would require hally to also be town, i guess

or i guess hally could be a wolf and lie about it for the intentional frame

but look either way. i'm not looking to sabotage here. if you're town i sincerely hope you do get a peek off on hally. hally's redirect should clear me anyways unless they set me up or wolves get lucky

i do apologize for being largely afk but the long and short of it was... i got complacent. thought we could win without me investing effort. i no longer believe this to be the case, because i see a gamestate that's about to sleepwalk into dunking me tomorrow with no real plan for what to do after i flip green

idk just from a gamestate perspective... fmpov nanook p much has to be town. nutella p much has to be town. if you're town and hally's also town... where the fuck do i go after that? iaafr with wwh as a godfather? that seems like a weird fucking world

it just seems very hard to me for one of you/hally to not be a wolf based solely on my own mechanical perspective

and your current dismissiveness towards me doesn't really scream "villager attempting to solve my alignment"

like a lot of why i started entertaining this tinfoil on you in the first place is that you've largely been mowing down the PoE without really taking a moment to reassess, even after you hit villager after villager

if you're town, it's time to accept that you don't live in the easy world, because i'm a villager, and if you're a villager and you misdunk me you're probably in LYLO and your peeks are probably worthless, because i cannot FATHOM a wolfteam that keeps you alive this long without having some level of investigation falsification.

i don't remember how many posts this is it's 5 am/30

[Amy]

that was probably a waste of a post, tutuu's post really just looks wolfy to my confbiasing brain so i'm probably rambling to a brick wall

this, on the other hand, is DEFINITELY a waste of a post

/30

[tutuu]

Yes from ur pov mechanically me or Hally has to be wolf

Thats why it makes 100 times more sense for u to shade Hally. They can be maf with LC. They can be maf with iaafr. They can be maf with me. They can be the last solo maf

Not gonna read or respond to ur other stuff its just sillyness

[tutuu]

Mafia was created by Dimitri Davidoff in 1986. Since then, there have been tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands Mafia games played throughout the world, in IRL, Forums, Video, Voice chat and more.

From all of these millions, billions, and even trillions Mafia games, there has not been a single town who has been more towny than tutuu has been this game. Take that scumread back and be ashamed of yourself, sis.

[tutuu]

29/30

[mention]Hally[/mention] i know there is 99.99999% chance u wont do this, but for my own sanity ... please dont redirect me tonight. i wish to peek you and get a "chinese" result and live my life in peace. i sincerely doubt u will do this anyway but ... please, lol. like even if u tinfoil me i hope there are other mechanical solutions

[WerewolfHunter]

11

I think my paranoia is if we have two evils left

[Long Con]

If one believes in a five mafia universe, then maybe radishes was town, and there are three left.

[WerewolfHunter]

If one believes in a five mafia universe, then maybe radishes was town, and there are three left.

12
Please do not go there.

I prob will need to reconsider at some point but I really think Radishes was evil

[Hally]

it will be funny when i’m peeked town. i’m sure i will be i n f o y e e t e d anyway. good times

[Amy]

it will be funny when i’m peeked town. i’m sure i will be i n f o y e e t e d anyway. good times

i don't infoyeet

if you're peeked green i always push for tutuu over you on the off chance that i'm high

but like. i really struggle to conceptualize the game if you/tutuu is v/v

would have to be like exactly iaafr, maybe with WWH as a godfather, and that... doesn't feel like it explains the threadstate

maybe i'm bad at mafia shrug

[iaafr]

starting to lean towards going nutella first

amy posting that she wouldve just done the level 1 n2 benson n3 tutuu thing makes me wonder why the scum didnt

maybe its cause they actually have a gf

maybe their wincon was to get nutella peeked

tutuu's noted that nutella still feels the least villagery outside of mech

dizzy was scumreading nutella a bit on d1

amy thought nutella's d1 sus of amy was the worst



nutellas been lowkey pinging me all game by basically permanently having a poe of all town and seeming not very attached to reads in general


i still think the not-amy world has to involve nutella/hally; tutuu still seems towniest independent of mech rn

[WerewolfHunter]

starting to lean towards going nutella first

amy posting that she wouldve just done the level 1 n2 benson n3 tutuu thing makes me wonder why the scum didnt

maybe its cause they actually have a gf

maybe their wincon was to get nutella peeked

tutuu's noted that nutella still feels the least villagery outside of mech

dizzy was scumreading nutella a bit on d1

amy thought nutella's d1 sus of amy was the worst



nutellas been lowkey pinging me all game by basically permanently having a poe of all town and seeming not very attached to reads in general


i still think the not-amy world has to involve nutella/hally; tutuu still seems towniest independent of mech rn

14

Where would I stand?

[Amy]

submitting action on tutuu; i expect this gets redirected anyways

if anyone has a better target am willing to swap

[iaafr]

starting to lean towards going nutella first

amy posting that she wouldve just done the level 1 n2 benson n3 tutuu thing makes me wonder why the scum didnt

maybe its cause they actually have a gf

maybe their wincon was to get nutella peeked

tutuu's noted that nutella still feels the least villagery outside of mech

dizzy was scumreading nutella a bit on d1

amy thought nutella's d1 sus of amy was the worst



nutellas been lowkey pinging me all game by basically permanently having a poe of all town and seeming not very attached to reads in general


i still think the not-amy world has to involve nutella/hally; tutuu still seems towniest independent of mech rn

14

Where would I stand?

tutuu
nanook

wwh/amy/lc

hally
nutella


something like this, independent of mech as of this moment

with mech, you'd be a second godfather unless exactly with tutuu which would be kind of wild

[iaafr]

actually wait you have the dizzy clear

im just gonna hardclear you on the dizzy clear and blame tsp if wrong tbh

[Amy]

tangential: no idea why i'm using so many goddamn semicolons this game. some combination of avatar aesthetic+site aesthetic, i guess. my tone is somewhat fluid depending on environment. psychology is wack

[iaafr]

tangential: no idea why i'm using so many goddamn semicolons this game. some combination of avatar aesthetic+site aesthetic, i guess. my tone is somewhat fluid depending on environment. psychology is wack

what do you think of the "they didnt nk benson and tutuu because nutellas a gf" theory

[Amy]

actually wait you have the dizzy clear

im just gonna hardclear you on the dizzy clear and blame tsp if wrong tbh

deadass forgot about this

ok i. don't think you make sense as a lone wolf, which pretty much means there HAS to be one in tutuu/hally fmpov

linki: lemme marinate on it. the idea of there being a gf specifically to fool a country-of-origin cop seems weird? seems like it'd have to be an extremely specific flavor

what was nutella's flavorclaim again?

[iaafr]

Dietrich Bonhoeffer

[iaafr]

wait who else alive is german

how do we know hally isnt just mafia redirector who redirected tutuu to a living german

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

wait who else alive is german

how do we know hally isnt just mafia redirector who redirected tutuu to a living german

Nobody claimed is

[tutuu]

Stop with the gf tinfoil reeeeeeeeeeeeeee

All mafia being of the same nationality (written on their REAL role pms AND confirmed by the host himself when they die as u can see with KZA and Colonialbob) is a mech info that i possess. It cant be a lie.

If there is "gOdFaThEr" then not only
1) i am explicitly lied about someones nationality by the host
AND
2) i am explicitly lied to about the mech info that all mafia have the same nationality

Like its double bastard

30/30

[iaafr]

ok well if all the mech info is correct its still just amy?

who is tryharding on a day she is mech locked for fun?