X-Men [ENDGAME]

[Joe Who?]

it looks like both rasputin and hawkeye were attacked last night and both survived... interesting...

isn't that rasputin's 2nd night survival?

Yes, now we have had three people survive, and only two roles in the list that show that

Hmmm, maybe all NK survivals are not role related?? In addition to the two roles that can survive NKs, we have a baddie blocker (to of them, actually), at least one civ role with secrets, a civ who can protect, oh prizes, indys with secrets. Yeah. So lots of ways to survive an NK other than being one of to roles.

In any case, I read the night post as he potentially got a gift from the Sentinels. Becasue that is what the post said, lol.

Mikhail Rasputin was attempting to study the topography of The Savage Land when a missile struck the top of a rocky formation. The resultant landslide buried him. When he dug his way out, he found a microchip. “This was a gift from a sentinel,” he said.

You may be right and it was an NK, but I am not so sure of that.

a gift that causes rocks to fall on your head is a pretty shitty gift lol.

you may be right though.

[dodo]

And finally, you can try to rationalize what Rasputin said all you want. It was still a threat to make a case on me. That's what he did. He threatened to make a case on me and convince others to vote for me as well. Civvies don't threaten to make cases. They make cases.

BULLSHIT. I'm sorry, but STOP FUCKING SAYING THIS. I HAD FINALS!

Pfft. No you didn't.

That being said, I'm a civvie and I don't make cases. I have too much on my plate ruling the Morlocks to be bothered with your surface-dweller affairs.

[Joe Who?]

Correction, Longshot, not Banshee. Longshot was quoting Banshee; Longshot said he thought the attempt on Hawkeye was by Apocalypse, and I am not sure how he would know that. Because the post certainly does not say that.

Sorry Banshee

lol, it's cool, i was just confused for a second.

[Joe Who?]

If we're going to remain split down two rough lines, with Team Havok and Team Mikhail, I'll take Team Havok.

See... that's exactly what's making me nervous, there's very clearly 2 bands forming, and one of them contains people I feel are probably civ based on various things that have happened in the thread, while the other side seems to be getting more support and is disregarding those previously mentioned indications.

I'm getting nervous about this because it seems equally possible that either side of the line could be the result of the influence of a large baddie team. Big teams can allow a baddie group to easily set up themselves to look civvie mechanically, but they can also allow a baddie group to maintain and generate support for their ideas.

[Snapshot]

Bansheee, I know what you mean, and it's a serious concern. In the comics, Apocalypse always found 4 mutants and amped them up, heightening their powers and calling them his "four horsemen".

Considering that Apocalypse can't be lynched or nk'd, I think it is a logical guess that he had to recruit some players to be his horsemen, and I think he will only die when they are gone.

So with two split lines, it could be Brotherhood on one side, horsemen on the other, with the rest of us spread amongst them, siding with whichever side seems civ. I know that I believe Havok to be civ, but he technically could be former civ, aka a horseman.

So yeah, I hear you. I know which side I'm supporting, but I have hesitated a bit recently to be too strident about it, because I do have some small doubts about all of it.

And if push too heavily against the brotherhood and leave Apocalypse to the side, we could end up unable to stop him later. I do feel, though, that if one side IS brotherhood and the other IS apocalypse-based, we have a good shot of lynching someone worth lynching today. I think it likely both sides are trying to weaken the other atm.

[dodo]

I'm on your team, Vision! You can count on me!

Banshee, how suspicious do you find me on a scale of one to Morlock?

[Joe Who?]

Bansheee, I know what you mean, and it's a serious concern. In the comics, Apocalypse always found 4 mutants and amped them up, heightening their powers and calling them his "four horsemen".

Considering that Apocalypse can't be lynched or nk'd, I think it is a logical guess that he had to recruit some players to be his horsemen, and I think he will only die when they are gone.

So with two split lines, it could be Brotherhood on one side, horsemen on the other, with the rest of us spread amongst them, siding with whichever side seems civ. I know that I believe Havok to be civ, but he technically could be former civ, aka a horseman.

So yeah, I hear you. I know which side I'm supporting, but I have hesitated a bit recently to be too strident about it, because I do have some small doubts about all of it.

And if push too heavily against the brotherhood and leave Apocalypse to the side, we could end up unable to stop him later. I do feel, though, that if one side IS brotherhood and the other IS apocalypse-based, we have a good shot of lynching someone worth lynching today. I think it likely both sides are trying to weaken the other atm.

Holy shit, I hadn't even been considering the possibility of horsemen. D: *even more fretting*

All of that does make a lot of sense though storywise... So that means it's entirely possible that WQ's side is the apocalypse side and the Rasputin side is fuelled by the brotherhood? :-?

Most importantly, can we win with apocalypse?

[Joe Who?]

I'm on your team, Vision! You can count on me!

Banshee, how suspicious do you find me on a scale of one to Morlock?

Um... 1 I think? Or uh... Morlock?

[Operator]

All of that does make a lot of sense though storywise... So that means it's entirely possible that WQ's side is the apocalypse side and the Rasputin side is fuelled by the brotherhood? :-?

Most importantly, can we win with apocalypse?

Oh my god! I am NOT Brotherhood. I have survived 2 NKs.

This is getting soooo frustrating. I don't know how people are not seeing what I'm seeing, or how to communicate my ideas any more clearly than I have been. I can't believe people are still getting suckered by this stuff.

I'm on your team, Vision! You can count on me!

Banshee, how suspicious do you find me on a scale of one to Morlock?

Thanks for the levity, Avalanche. I LOL'ed.

[Joe Who?]

All of that does make a lot of sense though storywise... So that means it's entirely possible that WQ's side is the apocalypse side and the Rasputin side is fuelled by the brotherhood? :-?

Most importantly, can we win with apocalypse?

Oh my god! I am NOT Brotherhood. I have survived 2 NKs.

This is getting soooo frustrating. I don't know how people are not seeing what I'm seeing, or how to communicate my ideas any more clearly than I have been. I can't believe people are still getting suckered by this stuff.

Sorry, I'm just thinking out loud. I don't necessarily believe that you personally are brotherhood, but I think that if WQ is Apocalypse, and some of her supporters are horsemen trying to weaken the brotherhood, then it makes logical sense that members of the brotherhood might be part of the other party that's forming.

Rasputin, what do you think about the idea that Apocalypse may be gathering horsemen?

[Snapshot]

I'm not in favor of lynching you Mikhail, I'm not sold 100% yet against you. My problem is more with some of the people around you.But for the moment, my main question for you is this. You said that we now know wq is Apocalypse. Show me hoe we know this. Pretend I just subbed in or something, and I know nothing. How do we know this?

[Jack Shephard]

And finally, you can try to rationalize what Rasputin said all you want. It was still a threat to make a case on me. That's what he did. He threatened to make a case on me and convince others to vote for me as well. Civvies don't threaten to make cases. They make cases.

BULLSHIT. I'm sorry, but STOP FUCKING SAYING THIS. I HAD FINALS!

Pfft. No you didn't.

That being said, I'm a civvie and I don't make cases. I have too much on my plate ruling the Morlocks to be bothered with your surface-dweller affairs.

I'm on your team, Vision! You can count on me!

Banshee, how suspicious do you find me on a scale of one to Morlock?

You don't act like you're on our team, you act like you have your own agenda to look after.

[Jack Shephard]

To everyone wondering about Apocalypse

X-Men Mafia

Whereas Masters of the Universe took us all over a planet, X-Men will keep us...in one room.

Expect heavy manipulation.

X-Men
Must defeat The Brotherhood, The Sentinels, and Apocalypse

etc.

So yes, we need to defeat him.

[Operator]

I think the horsemen thing actually makes a surprising amount of sense. It would be a pretty cool role to have an unkillable indy that can only be defeated if its minions are taken down.

The mechanics are a lot of speculation, though: Would Apocalypse have chosen the players at the beginning of the game, or recruited as time went on? Would they have BTSC? Would their powers be augmented? (Someone mentioned this as a possibility based on the show.)

So I think the idea is very plausible and interesting, but I don't see much actionable about it, other than we shouldn't keep trying to kill WQ, which I had pretty much already figured.

Viz, I don't know that she is. However, I suspect it, and I am extremely confident I have very good, thread-based reasons to think I'm right. WQ has now stated that she can survive both lynches and NKs, and at least the lynch protection has been verified by host posts. There is one civ role that can survive lynches, Apocalypse, and some secrets. Only Apocalypse of those can also survive NKs. However, maybe that's not enough evidence. As WQ pointed out, there are prizes and such.

Then I'd add to it that 2 players who have been trying to get WQ killed because we thought she was bad, Hawkeye and I, have both had mysterious, apparently-sourceless NK attempts directed at us within the past 3 nights. Too much of a coincidence to be random, if you ask me, and WQ has not denied any of this, which is what you'd expect if she were not Apocalypse and were civ aligned.

Again, I think all this, I don't know it, so you're free to draw different conclusions, but to my mind the pieces fit too well for it to be anything else.

Linki: Thanks for that, Polaris. So we do need to find WQ's henchmen, and probably quick.

I think baddies should also be aware: it's possible WQ turned one of you. I'd say you should beware of your teammates who she may have defended in-thread; they may not have your win condition any more.

[Rachel Green]

it looks like both rasputin and hawkeye were attacked last night and both survived... interesting...

isn't that rasputin's 2nd night survival?

Yes, wasn't the other an attach by Apocalypse? Also, Banshee or anyone, does the part of this post about the sentinel make sense to anyone? I'm obviously missing something about how they operate because i don't understand the reference.

Can you point out to me where it says the other was an attack from Apocalypse?

No, I went back and looked at the post just now and it does not say. I didn't check before I wrote that which is why it is in the form of a question. In my memory it was Apocalypse but I obviously didn't remember correctly.

[Jack Shephard]

I'm not in favor of lynching you Mikhail, I'm not sold 100% yet against you. My problem is more with some of the people around you.But for the moment, my main question for you is this. You said that we now know wq is Apocalypse. Show me hoe we know this. Pretend I just subbed in or something, and I know nothing. How do we know this?

On Night 5, it looked like White Queen avoided a NK here. She later claims that she knows why she survived here, here, here, here, and here.

On Day 6, this was the result of the lynch. Kinda mysterious, and we don't know what exactly happened, but based on the fact that the lynch was not a tie, thanks to Epi's confirmation here we know someone survived the lynch. White Queen then states here that she was sure that the lynch was redirected onto her. She also confirms it here.

It doesn't appear that White Queen won any prizes, but just a curious thing I noted.

Select a book for studying.

The Universal Atlas: A Mutant’s Guide, by Charles Little Sky
4
White Queen (6), Longshot (8), Avalanche (10), Sebastian Shaw (14)
16%

The four players who selected this book are all still alive. Probably just a coincidence.

Anyway, there's what I have on the White Queen possibly being Apocalypse. I think she said there are other ways for one player to survive both a NK and a lynch, but I haven't come across any other possibilities yet.

[Rachel Green]

Correction, Longshot, not Banshee. Longshot was quoting Banshee; Longshot said he thought the attempt on Hawkeye was by Apocalypse, and I am not sure how he would know that. Because the post certainly does not say that.

Sorry Banshee

I have been out all day since posting this morning. You did not even give me a chance to explain myself from your first post before you posted this. You are trying to force an interpretation of my original post that is simply not true. My statement was not a comment it was a question.

[Jack Shephard]

Linki: Thanks for that, Polaris. So we do need to find WQ's henchmen, and probably quick.

I think baddies should also be aware: it's possible WQ turned one of you. I'd say you should beware of your teammates who she may have defended in-thread; they may not have your win condition any more.

Before we get too caught up in the idea of the Horsemen, could we try to confirm this with Epi that such a thing would exist? These theories coming in from left field based on the X-Men stories could just be seen as fear-mongering, and I was under the impression that X-men knowledge was not needed to play this game.

[Joe Who?]

That's a large part of why i think WQ is probably Apocalypse, she keeps mentioning prizes but most of the possible prizes are poll related and she hasn't actually won any of those.

Linkitis: but would epig actually confirm something that's secret related?

[Snapshot]

True, the horsemen idea is just a working theory of mine. How else could he die though? He has to die for us to win, but he can't die by lynch or NK, so I'd bet I'm right.

@White Queen, I'm mulling over the last few posts regarding you and your various survivals. Can you elaborate at all on how you've been surviving, if a) only Apocalypse seems to have protection from both NK and lynch built into his role and b) it doesn't seem as if you've won any of the various night polls, etc?

@Longshot, Avalanche, Sebastian Shaw, who chose the same book as WQ back on Night 1 or whenever that was, can any of you, without blurting out details, say whether that book could possibly have something to do with WQ's survivals? Or, if you don't want to even touch on that, do you support her atm, or do you feel she is bad?

Thanks.

[Rachel Green]

True, the horsemen idea is just a working theory of mine. How else could he die though? He has to die for us to win, but he can't die by lynch or NK, so I'd bet I'm right.

@White Queen, I'm mulling over the last few posts regarding you and your various survivals. Can you elaborate at all on how you've been surviving, if a) only Apocalypse seems to have protection from both NK and lynch built into his role and b) it doesn't seem as if you've won any of the various night polls, etc?

@Longshot, Avalanche, Sebastian Shaw, who chose the same book as WQ back on Night 1 or whenever that was, can any of you, without blurting out details, say whether that book could possibly have something to do with WQ's survivals? Or, if you don't want to even touch on that, do you support her atm, or do you feel she is bad?

Thanks.

Vision, let me check with the host regarding answering your question. At this moment the evidence seems to point to WQ being Apocalypse so that's what I feel. I just don't see another role and don't think the prizes alternative explains things either.

[Gunther]

I'm not in favor of lynching you Mikhail, I'm not sold 100% yet against you. My problem is more with some of the people around you.But for the moment, my main question for you is this. You said that we now know wq is Apocalypse. Show me hoe we know this. Pretend I just subbed in or something, and I know nothing. How do we know this?

I'm not 100% sold on Mikhail being Brotherhood, either. I have been approaching 100% for the last couple of days. The recent failed NK gives me pause. What makes me continue to believe he is brotherhood, however, is his in thread posts. He seems to ignore logic a lot of times.


Mikhail Rasputin: You haven't addressed the ending of Day 6 yet. All you did was say "Nice turnaround, bro". You didn't address what happened, though. What do you make of Shadowcat, Polaris, and Hawkeye coming in in the last 30 minutes of the lynch and decide that White Queen needed a couple of votes. They ended up moving 2 votes over to White Queen...I dunno perhaps in some hopes that 3 votes would see her lynched over 2 players that had 5 votes. Do you think that's a little strange? Like, maybe they knew that Magneto was involved and that those 2 votes would be enough to lynch her?

[Ned Flanders]

True, the horsemen idea is just a working theory of mine. How else could he die though? He has to die for us to win, but he can't die by lynch or NK, so I'd bet I'm right.

@White Queen, I'm mulling over the last few posts regarding you and your various survivals. Can you elaborate at all on how you've been surviving, if a) only Apocalypse seems to have protection from both NK and lynch built into his role and b) it doesn't seem as if you've won any of the various night polls, etc?

@Longshot, Avalanche, Sebastian Shaw, who chose the same book as WQ back on Night 1 or whenever that was, can any of you, without blurting out details, say whether that book could possibly have something to do with WQ's survivals? Or, if you don't want to even touch on that, do you support her atm, or do you feel she is bad?

Thanks.

I am not going to out myself; draw your own conclusions.

[Ned Flanders]

Apocalypse has secret win conditions. Focusing on a role that cannot be lynched or NKed will not help anyone, and the baddies are using it as a distraction.

[Ned Flanders]

All of that does make a lot of sense though storywise... So that means it's entirely possible that WQ's side is the apocalypse side and the Rasputin side is fuelled by the brotherhood? :-?

Most importantly, can we win with apocalypse?

Oh my god! I am NOT Brotherhood. I have survived 2 NKs.

This is getting soooo frustrating. I don't know how people are not seeing what I'm seeing, or how to communicate my ideas any more clearly than I have been. I can't believe people are still getting suckered by this stuff.

I'm on your team, Vision! You can count on me!

Banshee, how suspicious do you find me on a scale of one to Morlock?

Thanks for the levity, Avalanche. I LOL'ed.

Three people have survived NKs; there are obviously non role related ways to survive NKs.

[Joe Who?]

WQ, what do you think about the theory that the role apocalypse having horsemen?

Regardless of whether you are that role or aren't, I am interested in your thoughts on this subject.

[Ned Flanders]

I do not know a great deal about the XMen, the research I have done tells me that Apocalypse the role may have Horsemen. His win conditions are secret. One of the other Indy roles needs 4 roles dead, I believe. Perhaps Apocalypse needs 4 roles alive. It is a matter of conjecture, yes?

Recruitment is possible, but so are other options. In any case, unless the host reveals what the win cons are for Apocalypse, focusing on that role will not be helpful when we have not lynched a single baddie

[Ned Flanders]

To clarify; regardless of what role you think i might be, I want to lynch baddies.

[Snapshot]

focusing on that role will not be helpful when we have not lynched a single baddie

We have lynched one. We just don't know which it is, lol. Frankly, figuring out which Gambit was the fake would go a LONG way towards figuring this game out.

[Rachel Green]

Vision, I have the hosts permission to tell you that my book option did not have anything to do with players.

[Snapshot]

Vision, I have the hosts permission to tell you that my book option did not have anything to do with players.

Interesting. Okay, I can get on board the idea that WQ could be Apocalypse. I'm not going to say it's for sure, but it seems like a pretty decent idea, anyway. I've got to put some thought to this...

[Ned Flanders]

focusing on that role will not be helpful when we have not lynched a single baddie

We have lynched one. We just don't know which it is, lol. Frankly, figuring out which Gambit was the fake would go a LONG way towards figuring this game out.

Yeah, good point. I meant a single KNOWN baddie. it does not change that focusing on an unlynchable role helps no one but the baddies, tbh. Apocalypse assuredly has win conditions, and can die somehow, but the civvies still have to get rid of the baddies. We should focus there. Should we choose to do otherwise and lynch the unlynchable repeatedly, we will just hand this over to the baddies. Since the baddies are so overpowered, and this site has a rep for the civvies never winning, I think we need to lynch baddies. The only people focusing on Apocalypse at this point would have to be baddies. Had we lynched a few baddies by now, I might not think so. But we have not.

Several of them have gotten overconfident, painfully so, and exposed themselves. We need to lynch them.

[dodo]

You don't act like you're on our team, you act like you have your own agenda to look after.

Ian McKellen acts like a wizard, but in reality he's a gay Englishman. Acting is just another word for pretending.

[Rachel Green]

Vision, I have the hosts permission to tell you that my book option did not have anything to do with players.

Interesting. Okay, I can get on board the idea that WQ could be Apocalypse. I'm not going to say it's for sure, but it seems like a pretty decent idea, anyway. I've got to put some thought to this...

Yes, I'm theorizing that she could be Apocalypse but frankly I think WQ makes a good point that we need to look for baddies and not get too tied up over Apocalypse at this moment because we don't know how to kill him/her. Maybe in looking for baddies we would find some recruits for Apocalypse too.

[dodo]

Vision, I have the hosts permission to tell you that my book option did not have anything to do with players.

Interesting. Okay, I can get on board the idea that WQ could be Apocalypse. I'm not going to say it's for sure, but it seems like a pretty decent idea, anyway. I've got to put some thought to this...

Yes, I'm theorizing that she could be Apocalypse but frankly I think WQ makes a good point that we need to look for baddies and not get too tied up over Apocalypse at this moment because we don't know how to kill him/her. Maybe in looking for baddies we would find some recruits for Apocalypse too.

Question: if you were a baddie being accused of being apocalypse, wouldn't that be a very opportunistic and clever thing to say?

I mean, it DOES make sense, but still...

[dodo]

Vision, I have the hosts permission to tell you that my book option did not have anything to do with players.

Interesting. Okay, I can get on board the idea that WQ could be Apocalypse. I'm not going to say it's for sure, but it seems like a pretty decent idea, anyway. I've got to put some thought to this...

Yes, I'm theorizing that she could be Apocalypse but frankly I think WQ makes a good point that we need to look for baddies and not get too tied up over Apocalypse at this moment because we don't know how to kill him/her. Maybe in looking for baddies we would find some recruits for Apocalypse too.

Question: if you were a baddie being accused of being apocalypse, wouldn't that be a very opportunistic and clever thing to say?

I mean, it DOES make sense, but still...

In case it wasn't clear, I was referring to White Queen, not Longshot or Vision here.

[Operator]

I'm not in favor of lynching you Mikhail, I'm not sold 100% yet against you. My problem is more with some of the people around you.But for the moment, my main question for you is this. You said that we now know wq is Apocalypse. Show me hoe we know this. Pretend I just subbed in or something, and I know nothing. How do we know this?

I'm not 100% sold on Mikhail being Brotherhood, either. I have been approaching 100% for the last couple of days. The recent failed NK gives me pause. What makes me continue to believe he is brotherhood, however, is his in thread posts. He seems to ignore logic a lot of times.

Funny, I feel exactly the same way about you.

Mikhail Rasputin: You haven't addressed the ending of Day 6 yet. All you did was say "Nice turnaround, bro". You didn't address what happened, though. What do you make of Shadowcat, Polaris, and Hawkeye coming in in the last 30 minutes of the lynch and decide that White Queen needed a couple of votes. They ended up moving 2 votes over to White Queen...I dunno perhaps in some hopes that 3 votes would see her lynched over 2 players that had 5 votes. Do you think that's a little strange? Like, maybe they knew that Magneto was involved and that those 2 votes would be enough to lynch her?

Actually, for once you and I agree on something. I do think it's mighty odd. Switching votes last-minute is always kinda suspicious, and it upgrades to really suspicious if it changes the result and the lynchee isn't a baddie. Honestly, I kinda doubt all 3 of them are bad, but it seems possible at least one of them could be.

Problem is, I don't see how the math works from a baddie perspective, there. If 1 or more of them were bad, why not just vote for me and get me killed (or you for that matter, if you're civ like you say)? That seems just as good as getting White Queen. Maybe she was just kind of a random target, though, and they knew we'd both be on the chopping block again tomorrow anyway? Or if they had targeted White Queen as a primary and only one of us as a secondary, she'd have died anyway if they voted the secondary target, and they could just be all, "Well gol-darn, we didn't get him! Shucks." That actually makes the most sense to me, I think, because a secondary target was more likely to be a baddie, and they could use it as distancing later if necessary. If they targeted her and both of us, the whole thing was a useless exercise, in which case all the WQ voters are likely good.

Basically, I do think it's weird. I'm just having trouble explaining to myself why they risked the exposure to make sure WQ died, if it was indeed baddie-led. Nothing really seems to fit perfectly without being real convoluted. You got any theories on that?

Three people have survived NKs; there are obviously non role related ways to survive NKs.

I know. But two of them, on nonconsecutive nights, when I haven't won any prizes? Again, c'mon. You are really reaching here.

focusing on that role will not be helpful when we have not lynched a single baddie

We have lynched one. We just don't know which it is, lol. Frankly, figuring out which Gambit was the fake would go a LONG way towards figuring this game out.

Yes indeed. It's more or less the fundamental issue of the game. It's why I started suspecting you, WQ, and Havok, and why the other two started suspecting me. Frankly, I'm starting to feel like the issues arising from that are taking over the game, and that if we somehow manage to reconcile what we believe on that, we'll all stand a much better chance of actually getting baddies. Anyone down to take a fresh look at it with me?

Linki: WQ, what baddies have exposed themselves? I mean, I'm pretty confident I've found 2-3, but there's still a lot of debate. It's not like they've popped out and gone, "Here I am, lynch me please everyone because I'm so guilty!"

[Ned Flanders]

OK, assuming I am Apocalypse, then, keep lynching me, and let the baddies NK all the civvies, lol. See how far that gets you. After doing it a second time, they will say, "Lynch her three times, that must be it". Then "Four times, yeah, that's the ticket".

Not very far, that is how far that will get you.

There is a way to defeat Apocalypse, everyone would not be required to do so in order to win if there was not. But the civs still have to defeat the baddies as well. The baddies have been running this thread very seriously. The civs need to step up.

[Ned Flanders]

Linki, I think all the vote switchers, and you, Rasputin, exposed themselves the last lynch.

[Ned Flanders]

The baddies have been running this thread, you need to take it back. true story.

[Ned Flanders]

Oh, and i also thing Longshot exposed himself as bad for claiming to know Apocalypse tried to kill Hawkeye.

[Rachel Green]

Here is my post WQ. Do you see that I am asking a question? Do you see that I am not making a declarative statement? The reason is my memory was hazy on the fact, I remembered him being targeted and remembered something about Apocalypse, probably having to do with something eles. I'm asking the question "wasn't the other an attack by Apocalypse?". Once again, because I've already covered this twice today, this is a question not a declarative statement.

That being said, look at me all you want. I'm civ.

it looks like both rasputin and hawkeye were attacked last night and both survived... interesting...

isn't that rasputin's 2nd night survival?

Yes, wasn't the other an attach by Apocalypse? Also, Banshee or anyone, does the part of this post about the sentinel make sense to anyone? I'm obviously missing something about how they operate because i don't understand the reference.

[Ned Flanders]

But you never explained why you thought that, did you?

[Rachel Green]

But you never explained why you thought that, did you?

Yes, I have explained it at least twice. I thought i remembered that Mikhail was targeted. I also had a vague memory of Apocalypse in a post and believed it might connected. That's the way the mind works. I was trying to confirm my memory - I wouldn't have tried to confirm it if I knew it were true. I would have just stated it.

[Ned Flanders]

Okay

[Gunther]

I'm not in favor of lynching you Mikhail, I'm not sold 100% yet against you. My problem is more with some of the people around you.But for the moment, my main question for you is this. You said that we now know wq is Apocalypse. Show me hoe we know this. Pretend I just subbed in or something, and I know nothing. How do we know this?

I'm not 100% sold on Mikhail being Brotherhood, either. I have been approaching 100% for the last couple of days. The recent failed NK gives me pause. What makes me continue to believe he is brotherhood, however, is his in thread posts. He seems to ignore logic a lot of times.

Funny, I feel exactly the same way about you.

Mikhail Rasputin: You haven't addressed the ending of Day 6 yet. All you did was say "Nice turnaround, bro". You didn't address what happened, though. What do you make of Shadowcat, Polaris, and Hawkeye coming in in the last 30 minutes of the lynch and decide that White Queen needed a couple of votes. They ended up moving 2 votes over to White Queen...I dunno perhaps in some hopes that 3 votes would see her lynched over 2 players that had 5 votes. Do you think that's a little strange? Like, maybe they knew that Magneto was involved and that those 2 votes would be enough to lynch her?

Actually, for once you and I agree on something. I do think it's mighty odd. Switching votes last-minute is always kinda suspicious, and it upgrades to really suspicious if it changes the result and the lynchee isn't a baddie. Honestly, I kinda doubt all 3 of them are bad, but it seems possible at least one of them could be.

Problem is, I don't see how the math works from a baddie perspective, there. If 1 or more of them were bad, why not just vote for me and get me killed (or you for that matter, if you're civ like you say)? That seems just as good as getting White Queen. Maybe she was just kind of a random target, though, and they knew we'd both be on the chopping block again tomorrow anyway? Or if they had targeted White Queen as a primary and only one of us as a secondary, she'd have died anyway if they voted the secondary target, and they could just be all, "Well gol-darn, we didn't get him! Shucks." That actually makes the most sense to me, I think, because a secondary target was more likely to be a baddie, and they could use it as distancing later if necessary. If they targeted her and both of us, the whole thing was a useless exercise, in which case all the WQ voters are likely good.

Basically, I do think it's weird. I'm just having trouble explaining to myself why they risked the exposure to make sure WQ died, if it was indeed baddie-led. Nothing really seems to fit perfectly without being real convoluted. You got any theories on that?

I agree that it's very unlikely that both you and I were both targeted by Magneto yesterday. If that had been the case, then there would have been no need to put votes on White Queen. To me, it looks like their stunt was either a save of a team mate, or they used it as a means of keeping me and you around for future lynch discussion while adding the White Queen is Apocalypse mayhem to it. That would be if they had previously guessed that WQ was Apocalypse.

[Ned Flanders]

[Nicol Bolas]

[Nicol Bolas]

it would b real fly if team havok and team mikhail both put there best cases forward on who we shud lynch today. ill vote w/ whoever is makin the most sense. i c a lot of arguin goin on but not sure what it all means. i trust no1 and im gettin frustrated tryin to figure it all out so i defer to the ones who seem 2 have a clue

[Operator]

I agree that it's very unlikely that both you and I were both targeted by Magneto yesterday. If that had been the case, then there would have been no need to put votes on White Queen. To me, it looks like their stunt was either a save of a team mate, or they used it as a means of keeping me and you around for future lynch discussion while adding the White Queen is Apocalypse mayhem to it. That would be if they had previously guessed that WQ was Apocalypse.

I feel the same way. Honestly, the teammate-saving stunt looks a bit more likely to me right now. However, I am trying to look at things from all angles here, as we're obviously not getting far right now.

This probably sounds hypocritical since I called BS on QS for his "the baddies killed Tbird so I would be lynched tomorrow" story. But it seems as least plausible to me in this case, even though I think it's not the most likely scenario. The baddies wouldn't have to know White Queen was Apocalypse, they'd want her dead either way because she's not on their team. So the theory can work even if they hadn't figured out her role.

So I still think you're probably not civ, but I would like to look over our arguments again and see exactly where our differences lie. It'll help me out, anyway, and maybe we'll get new leads.

it would b real fly if team havok and team mikhail both put there best cases forward on who we shud lynch today. ill vote w/ whoever is makin the most sense. i c a lot of arguin goin on but not sure what it all means. i trust no1 and im gettin frustrated tryin to figure it all out so i defer to the ones who seem 2 have a clue

Read the freaking thread. Or better yet, make up some suspicions of your own. They don't even have to be grounded in fact to generate discussion, which can be helpful. And really, you're only looking at 2 people, and they happen to be the ones everyone is talking about? AND you plan to vote and then be able to say "Well it wasn't my fault! I was confused and so-and-so made the most sense!" This makes me sick.

If you're just going to vote for whoever posts the best case (or, more likely, whoever posts a case closest to when you feel like voting) you would be doing everyone a favor by not voting.

I'm not going to jump through hoops because you haven't been reading. This has been going on for days. If others want to, that's fine.

I do think looking at people like Shaw, Marrow, and Deadpool, who are active but not contributing anything, might be useful now. Avalanche also fits this category, more or less.