Amdibals at the Zoo! [END]

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Broseph has embraced the 451 style and I for one welcome our new overlord

[MacDougall]

Spoiler: show

112
Voters: nutella, Amy, ColinIsCool

Alison
Voters: NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, tutuu, Urist

Amy
Voters: Turnip Head

ColinIsCool
Voters: TonyStarkPrime

MacDougall
Voters: protocultures

nutella
Voters: tedxtr

TenThousandCalories
Voters: 112

tutuu
Voters: Alison

Urist
Voters: MacDougall

Why are so many people still on vanity wagons? I'm getting flashbacks to Lion King already. EoD is going to be a shit show.

When are you gonna actually make content that is designed to solve people as mafia as opposed to this kinda busy for busy sake stuff you keep pooping onto my thread?

[Alison]

Urist is and continues to be absurdly obvious mafia. Like naked mafia. Dick hanging out of pants mafia.

do you really think the mafia team is me/112/urist

Firstly, I haven't ever entertained that world.

Secondly, I don't need for the three of you to be mafia for one individual of you to be mafia.

Thirdly, you talk like there is something inherently illogical about that being the team that I should know. Might I remind everyone here that I'm not meticulously reading and analysing all the content for clues in this game. If you feel that there is something inherently illogical about that team being accurate please do tell me lol.

Urist made the wagon on me from a vanity wagon by tutuu that not even Carotte was voting on into a legitimate one and probably(?) influenced nanook to vote on it as well (do correct me if I am wrong about this nanook, your refusal to give clear explanations for your actions means that they're going to be misinterpreted sometimes). I don't think that's a W/W interaction. Like it's not something you should be holding at F3, but if you really think Urist is just omega obvious outed wolf you should be doubting your scumread on me to some extent given this interaction between us.

[MacDougall]

If you are town, think I am town and don't know what to do, objectively, empirically just sheep me on urist and make the game ez for yourself.

I'm right, urist is mafia, you get cred too ... how amaze
I'm wrong, urist is town, you get to troll me for being wrong and maybe even yeet me ... always a fun time

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’ve been scumreading you from before Urist was IIRC

[Urist]

I'd be down to pivot onto Turnip Head tbh

[MacDougall]

Urist is and continues to be absurdly obvious mafia. Like naked mafia. Dick hanging out of pants mafia.

do you really think the mafia team is me/112/urist

Firstly, I haven't ever entertained that world.

Secondly, I don't need for the three of you to be mafia for one individual of you to be mafia.

Thirdly, you talk like there is something inherently illogical about that being the team that I should know. Might I remind everyone here that I'm not meticulously reading and analysing all the content for clues in this game. If you feel that there is something inherently illogical about that team being accurate please do tell me lol.

Urist made the wagon on me from a vanity wagon by tutuu that not even Carotte was voting on into a legitimate one and probably(?) influenced nanook to vote on it as well (do correct me if I am wrong about this nanook, your refusal to give clear explanations for your actions means that they're going to be misinterpreted sometimes). I don't think that's a W/W interaction. Like it's not something you should be holding at F3, but if you really think Urist is just omega obvious outed wolf you should be doubting your scumread on me to some extent given this interaction between us.

I have a "meh could be scum" read on you. Which is more because I've never played with town you. Have no idea what your scumrange is relative to your town range, and ergo cannot clear you off anything you've done so far.

Don't worry about my read on you. I'll solve you if you're town. Just play the game. You're not who I'll be pushing today unless someone in the game sends me the mafia playerlist and it has your name on it.

[Urist]

I’ve been scumreading you from before Urist was IIRC

were you scumreading her before or after her turnip head vote?

[Alison]

Can you elaborate a bit more about what exactly they've done that you believe is justifiably scummy? Like I'm sorry if you answered this before and I just didn't see or something but I've received no good answers when I ask these questions of anyone else so

Like I get some vague pointing at how proto is saying something they disagree with or making pushes they don't like (despite him doing this every single game), or how Amy being voted produces "wagonomics" and I'm just incredibly unsatisfied with all of those answers. If you think you have better ones feel free to make them explicit to me

Allison I don't want to get into a two page back and forth with you like you did with Tutuu it's unproductive. If you're gonna unravel and make me answer to every accusation, gut read, random thought or random observation I make this game will end up sucking for you, me and anyone who reads it.

I don't understand why everyone in this game is so diametrically opposed to the act of justifying the actions they take tbh. I honestly feel like if you don't want to explain your thoughts and actions to others you should just pick a different game to play, because nobody can understand you if you do this and you're at best coasting along on tone or meta without actually trying to impart your thoughts on other players. In this case it wasn't even an offhand thought or whatever, it was literally your focal point for refuting my case on the Amy/proto voters, so if you genuinely feel like offering explanations for your reads is nitpicking or whatever then there's nothing I can do to really engage w/ you sorry

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’ve been scumreading you from before Urist was IIRC

were you scumreading her before or after her turnip head vote?

Before I think

Off like her third post or something like that

[Urist]

I’ve been scumreading you from before Urist was IIRC

were you scumreading her before or after her turnip head vote?

Before I think

Off like her third post or something like that

ok congrats you win

[Urist]

if anyone votes for TH or TSP i will join them
just saying

[Alison]

Spoiler: show

112
Voters: nutella, Amy, ColinIsCool

Alison
Voters: NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, tutuu, Urist

Amy
Voters: Turnip Head

ColinIsCool
Voters: TonyStarkPrime

MacDougall
Voters: protocultures

nutella
Voters: tedxtr

TenThousandCalories
Voters: 112

tutuu
Voters: Alison

Urist
Voters: MacDougall

Why are so many people still on vanity wagons? I'm getting flashbacks to Lion King already. EoD is going to be a shit show.

I agree that vanity wagons at EOD is a terrible idea but we still have quite a ways to go before EoD so it's probably fine

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’ve been scumreading you from before Urist was IIRC

were you scumreading her before or after her turnip head vote?

Before I think

Off like her third post or something like that

ok congrats you win

It was like her first ten or so posts

I wouldn’t like

Call it a lock read or whatever

But I think it’s better than you or 112 so

[Alison]

if anyone votes for TH or TSP i will join them
just saying

Sounds good

[VOTE: Turnip Head] aubergine

[Urist]

ok anyone other than alison

[Alison]

ok anyone other than alison

it's unclear to me why TH becomes magically more scummy if voted by someone other than me

[Urist]

ok anyone other than alison

it's unclear to me why TH becomes magically more scummy if voted by someone other than me

you answered your own question
_-~*magic*~-_

[Alison]

I've been using the phrase "it's unclear to me" a lot in this game I've noticed, and it's probably because a lot of players in this game seem determined to make their play as unclear as inhumanly possible for reasons unknown

linki: exhibit A

[nutella]

Omg people keep saying words and they're all nai this is boring

[Urist]

actually Alison would you be down for TSP instead?

[Alison]

I do tend to be a fairly pragmatic player and I'd rather adapt to a playstyle than try to get someone to change via brute force but I there are in fact limits to my adaptability and "5 players just randomly decide not to give any rationale behind any of the things they do say or think and scumread anyone who tries to ask them to" crosses that line so I'm just going to do my best to read you accurately, act accordingly and refrain from trying to engage you or convince you of anything from now on

linki: no, TSP hasn't done anything wrong

[Urist]

I do tend to be a fairly pragmatic player and I'd rather adapt to a playstyle than try to get someone to change via brute force but I there are in fact limits to my adaptability and "5 players just randomly decide not to give any rationale behind any of the things they do say or think and scumread anyone who tries to ask them to" crosses that line so I'm just going to do my best to read you accurately, act accordingly and refrain from trying to engage you or convince you of anything from now on

linki: no, TSP hasn't done anything wrong

who is scumreading people for asking them to explain rationale?

[Urist]

anyway i guess i'm fine with this
[VOTE: Turnip Head] aubergine

[Urist]

tsp's popping in to change the vote from mac to colin is bad tho

[Alison]

I do tend to be a fairly pragmatic player and I'd rather adapt to a playstyle than try to get someone to change via brute force but I there are in fact limits to my adaptability and "5 players just randomly decide not to give any rationale behind any of the things they do say or think and scumread anyone who tries to ask them to" crosses that line so I'm just going to do my best to read you accurately, act accordingly and refrain from trying to engage you or convince you of anything from now on

linki: no, TSP hasn't done anything wrong

who is scumreading people for asking them to explain rationale?

I was referring to tutuu with that remark, since "Alison is nitpicky by asking me to explain myself and this fits her scum meta in Space Invaders" was a big part of her case against me

The rest of you don't necessarily scumread me for what I'm saying you just ignore or deflect my requests and you really aren't giving me anything to work with here

I did consider that maybe I was being extraordinarily inflexible or affected by cognitive bias in wanting people to play the same way I do but I also observed that I did not experience with problem with people like Carotte who I may strongly disagree with but who at least try to articulate their reasoning, and that historically I have not really had much of a problem with nanook's style of play in the past as long as he makes some effort to get across what he thinks and why to me. Unfortunately I don't see this happening here and while it's true that you can't all be scum you're also unsortable to me because you persist in sticking to your guns. I'm more than willing to accomodate playstyle differences and I think I've shown in past games that I don't just go off on anyone who plays differently to me but there has to be some attempt to engage with what I'm saying and thinking or there cannot be any communication

Also I think there's a nonzero chance that mafia is aware I'm annoyed by this and is intentionally trying to inflame me because stuff like the tutuu/me thunderdome is probably bad for the thread regardless of tutuu's alignment, which is why I'm choosing to just focus on more productive lines of engagement rather than beat my head uselessly against a brick wall

[Urist]

ok anyone other than alison

it's unclear to me why TH becomes magically more scummy if voted by someone other than me

your AtE is getting to me so i'll explain that i do have some reservations about voting with you on TH considering my reason for voting you in the first place was mostly based on your vote for TH.
but it's d1 and i've proven that i'm terrible at reading you in general sooooooo whatever

[Alison]

tsp's popping in to change the vote from mac to colin is bad tho

hm

I agree that Colin does fall loosely into the "easy, riskless push for mafia to make" category like Amy/proto are like I was arguing earlier. I suppose he has been townread quite a bit this game but I can believe your point that this vote move is suspicious. I wasn't really paying close attention to it but I didn't find anything from TSP that was baldly objectionable so I did not have a strong suspicion on him

[Urist]

tsp's popping in to change the vote from mac to colin is bad tho

hm

I agree that Colin does fall loosely into the "easy, riskless push for mafia to make" category like Amy/proto are like I was arguing earlier. I suppose he has been townread quite a bit this game but I can believe your point that this vote move is suspicious. I wasn't really paying close attention to it but I didn't find anything from TSP that was baldly objectionable so I did not have a strong suspicion on him

mhm, and i have difficulty believing that tsp is just lazy town not reading colin properly, because i'd expect him to simply hop on the 112 wagon in that case (tsp's earlier posts indicate a strong conviction that this is 112's wolf meta).

[Alison]

ok anyone other than alison

it's unclear to me why TH becomes magically more scummy if voted by someone other than me

your AtE is getting to me so i'll explain that i do have some reservations about voting with you on TH considering my reason for voting you in the first place was mostly based on your vote for TH.
but it's d1 and i've proven that i'm terrible at reading you in general sooooooo whatever

I don't really understand what's so scummy about my vote for TH but we'll shelve that aside.

I think my points about TH's scumminess are fairly straightforward and easy to understand. TH has been anti-town; TH knows they're anti-town and refuse to change. TH has voted a very easy/lazy push for bad reasons. TH ghosted the thread for a bit and then came back to defend themselves when I called them out. These are behaviors that are, in a vacuum, objectively scummy. Any one of them could be defensible (especially the anti-town bit if that's just their meta like people said) - but taken altogether, it paints a poor picture of TH. Whatever you think about me and my vote for TH, these are facts about TH's behavior that you can evaluate the truth of for yourself.

Also if it helps you understand my decision to ask you to sheep me on TH better, I simply figured that taking a vote from someone I know to be town and putting it on someone I heavily suspect of being scum is definitely a positive development.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Idk why you’d think “yes, this game is the game that nanook will start going into minute detail about the reasoning behind his reads, definitely and for sure, this will be the game”

I have my reads, I’ll explain in a cursory manner for the most part, occasionally I’ll go into more detail when I want to run it by someone. This is normal

[Alison]

tsp's popping in to change the vote from mac to colin is bad tho

hm

I agree that Colin does fall loosely into the "easy, riskless push for mafia to make" category like Amy/proto are like I was arguing earlier. I suppose he has been townread quite a bit this game but I can believe your point that this vote move is suspicious. I wasn't really paying close attention to it but I didn't find anything from TSP that was baldly objectionable so I did not have a strong suspicion on him

mhm, and i have difficulty believing that tsp is just lazy town not reading colin properly, because i'd expect him to simply hop on the 112 wagon in that case (tsp's earlier posts indicate a strong conviction that this is 112's wolf meta).

ok, thank you for trying to articulate your reasons; this makes me understand your read on TSP better. the points are valid; I'm going to sleep on the TSP read for a bit and see if I come around on this.

[Urist]

I don't really understand what's so scummy about my vote for TH but we'll shelve that aside.

tutuu voted for TH in the midst of your argument with her, and you quickly followed. That's what I find scummy about it, there was no pause to consider the intentions of the person you were following onto that wagon.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Maybe tony and 112 are partners and he pocketed me by making me chuckle

An alarmingly realistic possibility

[Alison]

Idk why you’d think “yes, this game is the game that nanook will start going into minute detail about the reasoning behind his reads, definitely and for sure, this will be the game”

I have my reads, I’ll explain in a cursory manner for the most part, occasionally I’ll go into more detail when I want to run it by someone. This is normal

i don't think you're behaving particularly out of character ftr and I have no real expectation that you'll go into minute detail about reasoning this game (this is why I'm not really scumreading you or directing the majority of my annoyance at you in particular). I was mostly saying that while I am flexible enough to accomodate/adapt to the playstyle of one nanook in most games I play, I don't think I'm ready to adapt to 5 nanooks in the same game, and that's what it felt like for a bit there

[Urist]

I think my points about TH's scumminess are fairly straightforward and easy to understand. TH has been anti-town; TH knows they're anti-town and refuse to change. TH has voted a very easy/lazy push for bad reasons. TH ghosted the thread for a bit and then came back to defend themselves when I called them out. These are behaviors that are, in a vacuum, objectively scummy. Any one of them could be defensible (especially the anti-town bit if that's just their meta like people said) - but taken altogether, it paints a poor picture of TH. Whatever you think about me and my vote for TH, these are facts about TH's behavior that you can evaluate the truth of for yourself.

meh, i'm more concerned about the vote on amy for "wagonomics" reasons followed by keeping the vote on amy despite the wagon evaporating.

[Turnip Head]

I'm not anti-town, Alison, I'm just a casual

[Turnip Head]

I think my points about TH's scumminess are fairly straightforward and easy to understand. TH has been anti-town; TH knows they're anti-town and refuse to change. TH has voted a very easy/lazy push for bad reasons. TH ghosted the thread for a bit and then came back to defend themselves when I called them out. These are behaviors that are, in a vacuum, objectively scummy. Any one of them could be defensible (especially the anti-town bit if that's just their meta like people said) - but taken altogether, it paints a poor picture of TH. Whatever you think about me and my vote for TH, these are facts about TH's behavior that you can evaluate the truth of for yourself.

meh, i'm more concerned about the vote on amy for "wagonomics" reasons followed by keeping the vote on amy despite the wagon evaporating.

So?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Can you imagine star playing a game here kek

I’d laugh so hard

[Urist]

This is normal

pls no

[Turnip Head]

For the record I shouldn't respond to any of this because my name is Percival "Percy" Penguin, Private Eye and my name is not TH

[Alison]

I don't really understand what's so scummy about my vote for TH but we'll shelve that aside.

tutuu voted for TH in the midst of your argument with her, and you quickly followed. That's what I find scummy about it, there was no pause to consider the intentions of the person you were following onto that wagon.

I don't really believe in taking that kind of thing too far into consideration. I found TH scummy for reasons X; reasons X still exist whether or not tutuu votes TH. What if I have a scumread on tutuu as well? Well, perhaps my scumread on tutuu is wrong. Perhaps tutuu is distancing from her buddy. I certainly don't intend to let the voting patterns of someone I think is scum sway me from voting based on objectively scummy behavior or following logic I think is sound.

This isn't to say that I completely ignore the actions of people I scumread, but if I start townclearing people I would ordinarily scumread simply because someone else I scumread is voting them, then not only does this give mafia an undesirable amount of control over my reads, it also creates a house of cards situation where if I'm wrong about tutuu I become wrong about everything else (because then I have no reason to clear TH, and any of the other people tutuu was voting, and the house of cards crumbles). This isn't really an absolute law but the long and short of it is that if I have a good reason to scumread someone another scummy player voting them won't change my mind because it does not change the reason.

[Urist]

Can you imagine star playing a game here kek

I’d laugh so hard

it's pretty fun listening to him talk about his adventures on other sites.

you should invite him!

[Alison]

I think my points about TH's scumminess are fairly straightforward and easy to understand. TH has been anti-town; TH knows they're anti-town and refuse to change. TH has voted a very easy/lazy push for bad reasons. TH ghosted the thread for a bit and then came back to defend themselves when I called them out. These are behaviors that are, in a vacuum, objectively scummy. Any one of them could be defensible (especially the anti-town bit if that's just their meta like people said) - but taken altogether, it paints a poor picture of TH. Whatever you think about me and my vote for TH, these are facts about TH's behavior that you can evaluate the truth of for yourself.

meh, i'm more concerned about the vote on amy for "wagonomics" reasons followed by keeping the vote on amy despite the wagon evaporating.

Sure; my overall point is that there are objective reasons to scumread TH and you should not ignore or downplay those reasons just because I voted TH also.

(kinda like how I did not ignore or downplay my own reasons for voting TH just because tutuu voted them!)

[nutella]

Maybe tony and 112 are partners and he pocketed me by making me chuckle

An alarmingly realistic possibility

this tbh

[Turnip Head]

I'm pretty okay with you finding my play scummy, Alison, but I'm not really okay with you arguing that my play is objectively scummy.

[Alison]

"Refuses to do anything to help town, only comes into thread to meme/defend themselves when called out, votes player who can't effectively defend herself for sketchy at best reasons and then leaves the vote on her" is like, a list of textbook scummy behavior. If this isn't objectively scummy then I don't know what is.

Give me a good interpretation of your behavior that shows me the town mentality coming from you.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Can you imagine star playing a game here kek

I’d laugh so hard

it's pretty fun listening to him talk about his adventures on other sites.

you should invite him!

Maybe I’ll get him to play my avatar game kek

Watching him and people new to him is almost as watching people discover elli for the first time tbh

[Urist]

Can you imagine star playing a game here kek

I’d laugh so hard

it's pretty fun listening to him talk about his adventures on other sites.

you should invite him!

Maybe I’ll get him to play my avatar game kek

Watching him and people new to him is almost as watching people discover elli for the first time tbh

we certainly are a group of characters, aren't we?? :laugh track:

[Turnip Head]

"Refuses to do anything to help town, only comes into thread to meme/defend themselves when called out, votes player who can't effectively defend herself for sketchy at best reasons and then leaves the vote on her" is like, a list of textbook scummy behavior. If this isn't objectively scummy then I don't know what is.

Give me a good interpretation of your behavior that shows me the town mentality coming from you.

I'm not good at being town, so I kinda just wing it. There's always one person who just totally hates it, but idk how to play any differently