Radiohead Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Poison]

Solid Town
tutuu
mac
tedxtr
sprityo
samusamu
poison

towny, some paranoia
Alison
DrWilgy
dyachei
Dizzy
Hally
Nanook
Tim
Oddmerta

Null
Colin
Long Con

Wafflin
Herm
Radish
spf

Slight scumlean
Jpic
FP-juliets


hm. I ended up putting more people in paranoia tier than I thought I would

can you talk to me about your reads, at least a line maybe for each of them?
specially , JPIC, juliet and tim, odd. and why do you have me higher than a lot of people who have posted more contents, say alison.?

I need to sleep so no not writing stuff for every player rn lol
I've talked about juliets. Jpic has just been sort of weird in the sense that he's either caught scum semi-lolcatting or town who doesn't feel like playing seriously. Tim I feel like is in town meta from my experience of him but it's a bit of a shakey read. Oddmerta idk I don't know him at all but just remember some early takes seeming organic, plus I'm sorta sheeping tutuu there.

I have you high due to my (limited) sense of your meta and your posts just feel genuine. why do you think I should have alison higher than you? I talked earlier about her meta being really strong as either alignment hence some deepwolf paranoia

i see thank you. and good night if you are going to sleep.

[tutuu]

my ideal wagons are spf vs nutella vs juliets but its fine if u guys dont wanna wagon spf d1 i dont wanna insist

[nutella]

just realized that juliet replaced into fallen prince. i would gth scumread her and i dont feel like explaining why rn

Let's not play this game.

I think juliets is just town. Catchup was good. Nothing amazingly standout but had a thread of town purity to it. I'm not going to gamble my life savings on this read, but she's done a good job redeeming the slot.

SPF is like, there are some reasons to read her town, but the energy hasn't come back yet and the un-asked for GTH is slightly scummy in a vacuum unless there's meta there. (Town just does whatever, scum feels more of a need to pigeonhole their reads so they can remember what those reads are and act in accordance to them. It simplifies matters for them when their goal is play-acting out the reads.) Let's say... still in the POE, but near the top of it.

Will catch up more as I go.

(hehe 1610)

yeah the gth thing is definitely a significant part of what set me off about spf. didn't feel natural to me

why did you not mention or point that out until right now if this is the case?

I....thought I did? but maybe I'm mixing up your gth post with a different catchup post that I disliked first and never specified disliking the gth one as well

[staypositivefriend]

just realized that juliet replaced into fallen prince. i would gth scumread her and i dont feel like explaining why rn

Let's not play this game.

I think juliets is just town. Catchup was good. Nothing amazingly standout but had a thread of town purity to it. I'm not going to gamble my life savings on this read, but she's done a good job redeeming the slot.

SPF is like, there are some reasons to read her town, but the energy hasn't come back yet and the un-asked for GTH is slightly scummy in a vacuum unless there's meta there. (Town just does whatever, scum feels more of a need to pigeonhole their reads so they can remember what those reads are and act in accordance to them. It simplifies matters for them when their goal is play-acting out the reads.) Let's say... still in the POE, but near the top of it.

Will catch up more as I go.

(hehe 1610)

yeah the gth thing is definitely a significant part of what set me off about spf. didn't feel natural to me

why did you not mention or point that out until right now if this is the case?

I....thought I did? but maybe I'm mixing up your gth post with a different catchup post that I disliked first and never specified disliking the gth one as well

i am p sure that you did not but feel free to correct me if im wrong

[tutuu]

cant we like just vig JPIC or something (i still think he's town) instead of wasting a day of wagoning him idk

surely town has KP in a 22 player game so

[Alison]

my ideal wagons are spf vs nutella vs juliets but its fine if u guys dont wanna wagon spf d1 i dont wanna insist

Will you believe me if I said I'm inclined to townshield juliets?

Here's where I'm at with all of the proposed wagons.

juliets - Never voting this.
sprityo - Probably not voting this. Mac had a good case and everyone else seems to think they are just town. I can be wrong on this read.
SPF - I'm fine pushing here.
nutella - Gut says she's town, but not so strongly that I'd hardshield her against a wagon on her.
ted - Probably not voting this. I think tutuu made a good case on why the stuff we felt was scummy from him was actually not scummy. I agree he's capable of bursts of townie content but on the balance of probabilities, I think he's just more likely to be town.
JPIC - I'm fine pushing here.

[VOTE: JPIC] aubergine

[nutella]

just realized that juliet replaced into fallen prince. i would gth scumread her and i dont feel like explaining why rn

Let's not play this game.

I think juliets is just town. Catchup was good. Nothing amazingly standout but had a thread of town purity to it. I'm not going to gamble my life savings on this read, but she's done a good job redeeming the slot.

SPF is like, there are some reasons to read her town, but the energy hasn't come back yet and the un-asked for GTH is slightly scummy in a vacuum unless there's meta there. (Town just does whatever, scum feels more of a need to pigeonhole their reads so they can remember what those reads are and act in accordance to them. It simplifies matters for them when their goal is play-acting out the reads.) Let's say... still in the POE, but near the top of it.

Will catch up more as I go.

(hehe 1610)

yeah the gth thing is definitely a significant part of what set me off about spf. didn't feel natural to me

why dont u hop on her wagon

sure why not

[VOTE: spf] aubergine

pretty wacky of you to join my counterwagon immediately after i suggest that im okay with lynching you

also pretty wacky that you join a counterwagon that already has 2 votes when there's four votes on you

I hadn't even seen your post about me yet, totally unrelated

and sure it's nice, I'd like to not die d1

[Poison]

i feel like I've been catching up for 10 years.

[Justplayingitcool]

I am bulletproof

[Samusamu]

Good morning dudes.

Okay, samu is not the powerwolf Radiohead mafia deserves. So pure. Lock town

I'm ambivalent on Samu. He seems to be approaching this game in a very blunt way, which is >rand town in my experience. But I also don't like the way he throws out reads like they're obligatory rituals he has to do, without real conviction in them or followup. I could just be biasing the latter because he's halfway through catchup and doesn't have much chance to do a followup though. But compare to eg. Hally's read progressions/convictions during her catchup.

I think Samu is fairly towny this game, his approach is sort of similar to the game I played with him. And he is actually trying to scum hunt and questions around. Although it would be rather bold of me to call him town without seeing his mafia play, but I think he has an overall towny aura so far.

But are you actually reading me or just pretending to pocket me?

[nutella]

like what is wacky about me voting for someone i've stated concerns with, and what is wacky about changing my vote from a lone non-wagon to someone that literally my two top townreads are voting for lol

[Alison]

I am bulletproof

Is this a serious claim?

[MacDougall]

I feel like this list has high town equity and have seen significant self clearing posts from all of them:

Alison
Dyslexicon
Juliets
Hally
Master Radishes
Poison Chan
Samusamu
staypositivefriend
Timsup2nothin
tutuu

I think this list is probably town, but I have reservations:

DrWilgy - Specifically I cannot resolve some of the angles he's taken in the game, and DrWilgy appears to have finally regathered his wim from years gone by which makes him probably the best player in the entire game ergo foolish to ever trust.
dyachei - I cannot help but feel like they would have towncleared themselves to me if they were town. Have played the game quite myopically.
Herm - The ratio that is the frequency with which I have seen them post, or mentioned vs. the impact they have left on me leaves some to be desired. I would like to see some more reasoned perspectives.
Oddmerta - Despite early clears, appears to have been overwhelmed in a way that can be struggling to find legitimate pathways as mafia, or simply just town that is coasting on being largely townread.
sprityo - Has been scummy in their meta way but I feel they have been spewed clear through TMI.

This list is essentially pure null avocado assholes that should have their feet tickled until they show us their role cards:

ColinIsCool - I don't remember a thing.
Long Con - I can't recall them even posting.

This list is the current POE:

Justplayingitcool - Has been scummy since the start and done really nothing to warrant a clear besides lolcat. Clearing this guy for that behaviour is ridiculous.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - Meta read. Hasn't been mindmelding. Hasn't been talking to me much at all. Feels like someone who is struggling to find legitimate paths to take.
nutella - Meta read. Hasn't been mindmelding. Ignoring the fact I am scumreading her (generally when I scum read her as town she gets mad and either omgussing me or calls me out for being a dumbass).
tedxtr

@MacDougall why is dizzy, spf and tim so high up in your list? can help me read them?

also, i think there's a few players you have been reading in terms of midmeld ratios, is that the only way you should look at them?

you are playing with me for the first time, should you really trust me to put that high up in your list?

Dizzy feels town and is being townread by other townreads. Tim doesn't feel like he is motivated by anything other than trying to solve the game. SPF and I have very similar reads both town and mafia.

Mindmelding with some players I have meta on is a reliable way for me to solve them. Certainly not everyone. We have no flips or anything empirical yet so I am just using the tools I have.

I do believe I've played with you. Also hosted you. Also you seem town and are being town read by some of my townreads. I don't have any issues with you.

[tutuu]

my ideal wagons are spf vs nutella vs juliets but its fine if u guys dont wanna wagon spf d1 i dont wanna insist

Will you believe me if I said I'm inclined to townshield juliets?

Here's where I'm at with all of the proposed wagons.

juliets - Never voting this.
sprityo - Probably not voting this. Mac had a good case and everyone else seems to think they are just town. I can be wrong on this read.
SPF - I'm fine pushing here.
nutella - Gut says she's town, but not so strongly that I'd hardshield her against a wagon on her.
ted - Probably not voting this. I think tutuu made a good case on why the stuff we felt was scummy from him was actually not scummy. I agree he's capable of bursts of townie content but on the balance of probabilities, I think he's just more likely to be town.
JPIC - I'm fine pushing here.

[VOTE: JPIC] aubergine

of course i believe you, that doesnt mean im convinced to agree tho!

[staypositivefriend]

just realized that juliet replaced into fallen prince. i would gth scumread her and i dont feel like explaining why rn

Let's not play this game.

I think juliets is just town. Catchup was good. Nothing amazingly standout but had a thread of town purity to it. I'm not going to gamble my life savings on this read, but she's done a good job redeeming the slot.

SPF is like, there are some reasons to read her town, but the energy hasn't come back yet and the un-asked for GTH is slightly scummy in a vacuum unless there's meta there. (Town just does whatever, scum feels more of a need to pigeonhole their reads so they can remember what those reads are and act in accordance to them. It simplifies matters for them when their goal is play-acting out the reads.) Let's say... still in the POE, but near the top of it.

Will catch up more as I go.

(hehe 1610)

yeah the gth thing is definitely a significant part of what set me off about spf. didn't feel natural to me

why dont u hop on her wagon

sure why not

[VOTE: spf] aubergine

pretty wacky of you to join my counterwagon immediately after i suggest that im okay with lynching you

also pretty wacky that you join a counterwagon that already has 2 votes when there's four votes on you

I hadn't even seen your post about me yet, totally unrelated

and sure it's nice, I'd like to not die d1

sure, i'm just skeptical of your intentions because of how vague/unclear your read has been on me and how it seemed to grow stronger when you needed someone to counterwagon

[tutuu]

like what is wacky about me voting for someone i've stated concerns with, and what is wacky about changing my vote from a lone non-wagon to someone that literally my two top townreads are voting for lol

i will agree that this line from spf "also pretty wacky that you join a counterwagon that already has 2 votes when there's four votes on you" was odd. idk why these numbers matter (2 and 4)

[Alison]

[Super Town]
Alison
Oddmerta
MacDougall
Master Radishes
tutuu
Timsup2nothin
Poison Chan
Hally
Herm
Fallen Prince/juliets
Samusamu

[Town]
Wilgy
nanook
nutella
tedxtr
Dizzy
dyachei

[POE]
Long Con
Colin
SPF
JPIC
sprityo

I'm going to be bold enough to say I think there's a good chance there really are 0 wolves in my super town list. Quote this post after the game to either embarass or kowtow to me.

[MacDougall]

3 votes on spf has me intrigued. I don't think I've seen a single post of hers that bothered me.

[Alison]

Oh I forgot to move sprityo up to town. Pretend sprityo is in the town category.

[nutella]

[Poison]

Read list, might change as I ISO.

Towns and town leans : [not in proper order]
Alison
Master Radishes
Samu
Sprityo
Herm
Tutuu
Mac

null to towny:
hally

Null :
Ted
JPIC
Nanook
nutella

null to scummy:
juliet
spf (?)

scummy:
Dizzy
Dya
Odd

i'll be talking about my scum reads in the next post.

[staypositivefriend]

like what is wacky about me voting for someone i've stated concerns with, and what is wacky about changing my vote from a lone non-wagon to someone that literally my two top townreads are voting for lol

i will agree that this line from spf "also pretty wacky that you join a counterwagon that already has 2 votes when there's four votes on you" was odd. idk why these numbers matter (2 and 4)

im pointing out that fmpov it looked like nutella was opportunistically joining an already existing wagon for the purpose of self-preservation

[staypositivefriend]

3 votes on spf has me intrigued. I don't think I've seen a single post of hers that bothered me.

yeah it's weird

[nutella]

3 votes on spf has me intrigued. I don't think I've seen a single post of hers that bothered me.

let me find the 2(I think) main ones that bothered me

[MacDougall]

I think the fact that Nutella claims Tedxtr to be one of her two top town is pretty wild frankly.

[tutuu]

I think the fact that Nutella claims Tedxtr to be one of her two top town is pretty wild frankly.

ted is in my top town too!

[Alison]

like what is wacky about me voting for someone i've stated concerns with, and what is wacky about changing my vote from a lone non-wagon to someone that literally my two top townreads are voting for lol

i will agree that this line from spf "also pretty wacky that you join a counterwagon that already has 2 votes when there's four votes on you" was odd. idk why these numbers matter (2 and 4)

im pointing out that fmpov it looked like nutella was opportunistically joining an already existing wagon for the purpose of self-preservation

Do you think town nutella wouldn't self-pres?

[MacDougall]

Top 2? Really?

[Poison]

Good morning dudes.

Okay, samu is not the powerwolf Radiohead mafia deserves. So pure. Lock town

I'm ambivalent on Samu. He seems to be approaching this game in a very blunt way, which is >rand town in my experience. But I also don't like the way he throws out reads like they're obligatory rituals he has to do, without real conviction in them or followup. I could just be biasing the latter because he's halfway through catchup and doesn't have much chance to do a followup though. But compare to eg. Hally's read progressions/convictions during her catchup.

I think Samu is fairly towny this game, his approach is sort of similar to the game I played with him. And he is actually trying to scum hunt and questions around. Although it would be rather bold of me to call him town without seeing his mafia play, but I think he has an overall towny aura so far.

But are you actually reading me or just pretending to pocket me?

If i was to pocket people by town reading them, I think I'll run out of pockets!

but yea read on you.

[tutuu]

Top 2? Really?

hes on 3rd place after u and alison

[nutella]

ok it's 3 posts that stand out really and the gth one was much later than I thought hence me not realizing I hadn't commented on it


but [mention]MacDougall[/mention] these catchup posts and gth reads all felt sort of unnatural/manufactured to me

Spoiler: show

Alright, I've decided I'm not going to get misexed again. Wolves, I hope you have your finger on the trigger to gun me down, because you sure as hell aren't getting rid of me any way else. I've worked hard to clear up my IRL distractions so I can focus on this game, and my WIM is pretty damn high right now.

Let's start with some raw facts.

The following players are town: DrWilgy, Dyslexicon, Hally, Herm, MacDougall, Master Radishes, Oddmerta, Poison Chan, sprityo, SPF and tutuu. You might be asking yourself how I've managed to confirm 10 people as town in 6 pages. If so, you didn't read the game. If you're skeptical about my reads, remember that in nearly half a dozen games on the Syndicate, I've only towncored 1 person wrong, ever. When I get killed N1 for my reads, remember this post and trust everyone I said to trust.

Skeptical indeed.

Hey guys Sprityo and JPIC are naked mafia.

When am I not mafia in your eyes Mac? At this point it's more of an inevitability you say something along those lines

i dont like spirityo playing off mac's fos on them by going: "you always sr me" instead of trying to engage with mac. this feels almost TMI-y in that spirit is replying to mac like they think mac is definitely town

I have a genuine townread of Sprit

Someone send help

why?

hi! i wont be able to dig into this game until tomorrow but i expect my mafia partners to have swept by then

i’m working on it! currently trying to pocket tutuu, mac and alison. i think it’s going pretty good!

excellent job, partner!

@staypositivefriend hey frand was the tim read actually packing any heat or was it a tongue-in-cheek read

I am willing to support you on that train if you were actually serious

it was partially serious but i dont have enough to substantiate it yet

why do u sr him?

not to community bash but mafia scum was one of the more unenjoyable mafia communities ive been at. epic mafia still probably worse for me but i remember this one dude from ms who was playing with me in a newbie game (he was the experienced player) who told me im delusional cuz i made a readslist with everyone included on day 1. "wow ur actually so delusional to think that u can solve the game d1" yeah man great thing to say to an enthusiastic player trying to learn the game

as someone from epicmafia i can confirm that it's nearly as terrible as mafiascum

Yeah Hally my general point is that it's very easy to feel intimidated as wolf and just lowpost when you see town have this much energy and make reads at so rapid a pace. And it wouldn't even be wrong because one of the best strategies to combat a bunch of town finding each other early on is to just do nothing, let the game stagnate as they pick off the active posters in the POE first because of recency bias and then fall apart into squabbling because they start to suspect a deepwolf amongst themselves and nobody wants to be the one to say "okay, let's gun down the afks". That's one of the best ways to beat a pure towncore that finds itself very early, so I'm comfortable with saying "maybe the mafia are just all in the lurkers".

town

I wasn't gonna post this after Alison chose the good approach, but I'm deciding to keep that line in this spoiler just in case it helps her in future games, maybe it will help.

it's like scattered thoughts, maybe it helps people see where I'm at or something, just jotted down things I think about

Spoiler: show

I thought tutuu's backlash at me was pretty whatever, looked like a slip at first but town do dumb stuff all the time, especially when they misunderstand things.

It's pretty uncharacteristic of her but I'll pass it off as an issue outside the game.

Alison's sluggish push on me is annoying but not really AI I think. If I were to say anything wise, I'd say if you were going to go for a PoE approach as you call it and solve the game as if only 10 people are playing it, you're kinda doing it wrong.

Also remember that I have a temper and we both have a pretty high chance of being town and you're doing nothing by discouraging me from posting, apart from making me not want to post myself clear and hating my villa team and then probably you're the one that's gonna call that out post-game anyway despite actively working against your wincon.

You aren't getting anything AI worth when you make comments like "I can never get to town on ted if he posts like this". You're only setting the grounds for a fight out of which I'm probably gonna come as clean as a soap bar and the fact that I didn't take that opportunity should tell you that I'm town here. If you're genuinely interested in discerning my AI, wait for more posts or ask me about specific posts. Otherwise you're doing nothing but picking fights and those fights rarely end up in a reliable read.

Tim and Odd's brawl felt kind of squint.gif, both sides ended up kinda looking elsewhere after the fact, it felt weird. I thought Tim's posts aren't AI at all and his push on Odd specifically isn't, I think him as a wolf would know what happened the last time he got into a brawl and I heard he thrives in tunnels either way + the context of the push was literally the same as his last villager game. I'll take it a step further and actually note that I didn't really like his position in the "war" - it felt like he was pushing Odd for something that looks scummy as opposed to something that actually made Odd more likely to flip scum, ergo, his insistence on why Odd wants me to respond to stuff. I struggle to buy the fact that you think that is gonna make him more likely to flip wolf and I think it was actually more of a pretext for getting into the tunnel itself and "looking good".

I will go over Tim's posts again and see if I buy into that, those are just my initial thoughts as I've seen them. My initial reactions to reading the whole thing as I remember them.

Odd's ISO was fine upon a glance but, as I said, it felt like he kind of wanted to pull a switcheroo for something that I still fail to comprehend but I'm waiting for a response.

On that note, I will say that I don't intend to engage with any of my wolf suspects - so please be respectful and don't throw a tantrum if I don't reply to your queries if I feel like they are agenda driven or you're just looking to pick a fight for the fun of it. My reads are my reads, if I get your feelings hurt by scum reading you then I'm sorry. If you're town then trust that I will calibrate my reads and if you're scum, I'm not gonna convince you that you have a wolf role PM so I just deem it a waste of time to directly engage with wolves, especially replying to their defence of potential cases. Just wanted to get that out of the way.

wew since when does ted write walls


this is either super town or super wolf lol

hedging. i do not like it

early townreads are tutuu, alison, and oddmerta

early scumreads are nutella, tim, and spirit

about to do some work but ill be here ~in the moment~ this evening

i am reading the ISO of everyone here and giving my short thoughts. to keep it interesting, i will out a GTH read on every player i ISO

alison - good vibes. good reads. confident and assertive without being reckless. gth town

coliniscool - good luck on your new job. you have no content. gth town for calling me open scum, i guess

drwilgy - playing very loosely. hard to tell what his thought process is. i like his response to alison's pressure in this post:

From where I'm at (page 8) tutuu's feels more content forcing than genuine generation that I saw in the last game. Mac doesn't have the same tang.

Yours feels different from Hally's as well.

Why Mac and Hally specifically?

Because Mac and Hally townread us?

Like surely if you think Mac and Hally are obvtown and both of them are telling you that tutuu/Alison are obvtown, you should pay a little attention to it unless you think they're awful at reading us, which they aren't.

I have quite abit of experience with Mac being incorrect.

And don't get me wrong. I'm not ignoring their reads, but I'm not going to be swayed away from my own reads without proper reason.

Even now Hally has made me feel better about Tutuu.

I must say, I dislike your opposition to differing opinions here. It feels like you are invalidating mine by means of reads of others. In a world where the others are also town, are our reads not all of equal value?

it's notable that drwilgy's motivation here isn't to discredit alison for attacking him - it's to defend the validity of his own reads. i like that he's standing his ground without overreacting or making it into something bigger. gth town

dyachei - asks a bunch of softball questions and then outs a list of reads. i have no idea how they went from point A to point B with their thought process. i liked their thoughtful reply to alison's sr on samu. gth town

Dyslexicon - openly not reading the game. my initial thought is that dys scum would probably be trying to assert their presence more instead of openly declaring that they have no intent to try. the laziness might point to them being town. gth town

fallenprince - no content

hally - this is the initial post from hally that pinged me:

im blindly sheeping mac, alison and tutuu this game. they will lead us to the promised land

it felt like hally's focus was to get themselves integrated into the townbloc & pocket them as opposed to genuinely scumhunting. i did not like how quickly hally townread the main people who were asserting their presence

but their iso isn't as bad as i remember it being - their read on tutuu actually seems pretty genuine and i liked their thoughts about me. maybe gth town

herm - not much substance yet. i am whelmed. gth town though

justplayingitcool - big reaction to being sr'd early in the game. from then, their tone became incredibly casual and relaxed. their casual tone does not align with their stressed out reaction to being scumread at the beginning of the game. gth scum

long con - hasn't posted

MacDougall - confident tone while being coy about his thought process. at the very least, i feel that there are gears turning in macdougall's head. his solving does not strike me as fake so far and i like his pressure on justplayingitcool. gth town

master radishes - i do not like any of his posts. reads align with the consensus. boring. gth scum

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - likes lobster biqsue. lock town. i like that they are actively rejecting opportunities to become a de-facto leader of the game. gth town

nutella - this might just be a playstyle difference but i have not loved her reads or her tone yet. a lot of her posts feel hedgy. i don't always see how she goes from point a to point b in her reads. eh. gth scum

odmderta - i do not like his reads but i think his reads are genuine. gth town

poison chan - i like her energy and her inquisitiveness. only concern is that she is being overly diplomatic. gth town

Samusamu - theyve said a lot but have concluded very little. waiting for them to post more content before i make a decision. gth scum because i feel that they're struggling to integrate themselves into the game a bit

sprityo - awkward reaction to mac's push. i like their follow up reads a little bit but nothing has stood out to me much. gth scum

tedxtr - "i am playing scummy on purpose" felt a little fake to me but i like their frustration and their change in tone since that point. i also kind of tr their push on me. gth town i guess

Timsup2nothin - it was kind of scummy when he asked me why he would sheep my avatar reads when those reads were clearly not serious. his tone feels overly concerned with how people are perceiving him but i do like his more recent analysis. gth scum

tutuu - locktown because of the chika avi. i also think her frustration with ted + her subsequent tr on him felt really genuine. gth town

[staypositivefriend]

like what is wacky about me voting for someone i've stated concerns with, and what is wacky about changing my vote from a lone non-wagon to someone that literally my two top townreads are voting for lol

i will agree that this line from spf "also pretty wacky that you join a counterwagon that already has 2 votes when there's four votes on you" was odd. idk why these numbers matter (2 and 4)

im pointing out that fmpov it looked like nutella was opportunistically joining an already existing wagon for the purpose of self-preservation

Do you think town nutella wouldn't self-pres?

she would. i would too. the issue is that it felt like the read suddenly became stronger when it became a convenient time for her to vote

[MacDougall]

I have about 8 players I near lock clear and Ted isn't one of them. So I struggle to believe any actual town could say he's top 2 with a straight face. There's townreading him. Then there's top 2 reading him.

[Justplayingitcool]

I am bulletproof

Is this a serious claim?

About as serious as all of my other posts

[staypositivefriend]

@nutella -

do you have any specific grievances with those posts other than feeling that they are "manufactured"? i don't want to lock myself into a push against you if you are town but i cant really do all that much with vague reads like that

[Alison]

nanook can be scum for this Hally push tbh

I've been thinking back and forth about it, I hated it on first sight but I didn't want to be biased and automatically scumread someone just because he scumreads my townread. But I was thinking about the way wagons were forming and how Mac helped a lot in consolidating the wagons, and his vanity wagon on Hally seriously stuck out to me. I think he's hiding there because there's a lot of uncertainty surrounding nutella/SPF/JPIC/whoever and he doesn't want to take a stance on his buddy until it becomes clearer which way the wind is blowing.

I think I'm down for a nook wagon as well.

[nutella]

Top 2? Really?

idk maybe that's an exaggeration, there are probably a couple people I could put above him but he's in like the top tier

[Poison]

I feel like this list has high town equity and have seen significant self clearing posts from all of them:

Alison
Dyslexicon
Juliets
Hally
Master Radishes
Poison Chan
Samusamu
staypositivefriend
Timsup2nothin
tutuu

I think this list is probably town, but I have reservations:

DrWilgy - Specifically I cannot resolve some of the angles he's taken in the game, and DrWilgy appears to have finally regathered his wim from years gone by which makes him probably the best player in the entire game ergo foolish to ever trust.
dyachei - I cannot help but feel like they would have towncleared themselves to me if they were town. Have played the game quite myopically.
Herm - The ratio that is the frequency with which I have seen them post, or mentioned vs. the impact they have left on me leaves some to be desired. I would like to see some more reasoned perspectives.
Oddmerta - Despite early clears, appears to have been overwhelmed in a way that can be struggling to find legitimate pathways as mafia, or simply just town that is coasting on being largely townread.
sprityo - Has been scummy in their meta way but I feel they have been spewed clear through TMI.

This list is essentially pure null avocado assholes that should have their feet tickled until they show us their role cards:

ColinIsCool - I don't remember a thing.
Long Con - I can't recall them even posting.

This list is the current POE:

Justplayingitcool - Has been scummy since the start and done really nothing to warrant a clear besides lolcat. Clearing this guy for that behaviour is ridiculous.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - Meta read. Hasn't been mindmelding. Hasn't been talking to me much at all. Feels like someone who is struggling to find legitimate paths to take.
nutella - Meta read. Hasn't been mindmelding. Ignoring the fact I am scumreading her (generally when I scum read her as town she gets mad and either omgussing me or calls me out for being a dumbass).
tedxtr

@MacDougall why is dizzy, spf and tim so high up in your list? can help me read them?

also, i think there's a few players you have been reading in terms of midmeld ratios, is that the only way you should look at them?

you are playing with me for the first time, should you really trust me to put that high up in your list?

Dizzy feels town and is being townread by other townreads. Tim doesn't feel like he is motivated by anything other than trying to solve the game. SPF and I have very similar reads both town and mafia.

Mindmelding with some players I have meta on is a reliable way for me to solve them. Certainly not everyone. We have no flips or anything empirical yet so I am just using the tools I have.

I do believe I've played with you. Also hosted you. Also you seem town and are being town read by some of my townreads. I don't have any issues with you.

okay although i don't and can't sheep your reads because i think most of them are coming from some sort of meta and sheeping other consensus town reads?! but thanks for telling me how you came to that conclusion.

[Alison]

nanook can be scum for this Hally push tbh

I've been thinking back and forth about it, I hated it on first sight but I didn't want to be biased and automatically scumread someone just because he scumreads my townread. But I was thinking about the way wagons were forming and how Mac helped a lot in consolidating the wagons, and his vanity wagon on Hally seriously stuck out to me. I think he's hiding there because there's a lot of uncertainty surrounding nutella/SPF/JPIC/whoever and he doesn't want to take a stance on his buddy until it becomes clearer which way the wind is blowing.

I think I'm down for a nook wagon as well.

He was hiding on the nutella wagon too when it looked like she wasn't going to get pushed at all, and then things changed, she became a wagon target, Mac called him out for hiding, and he just goes straight to Hally with only a slightly more plausible case than the joke read he had on nutella.

[nutella]

like what is wacky about me voting for someone i've stated concerns with, and what is wacky about changing my vote from a lone non-wagon to someone that literally my two top townreads are voting for lol

i will agree that this line from spf "also pretty wacky that you join a counterwagon that already has 2 votes when there's four votes on you" was odd. idk why these numbers matter (2 and 4)

im pointing out that fmpov it looked like nutella was opportunistically joining an already existing wagon for the purpose of self-preservation

Do you think town nutella wouldn't self-pres?

she would. i would too. the issue is that it felt like the read suddenly became stronger when it became a convenient time for her to vote

it didn't actually become stronger, no

but juliets doesn't seem to be happening as a wagon as of now, while yours is, and I'm down for it

[MacDougall]

nanook can be scum for this Hally push tbh

I've been thinking back and forth about it, I hated it on first sight but I didn't want to be biased and automatically scumread someone just because he scumreads my townread. But I was thinking about the way wagons were forming and how Mac helped a lot in consolidating the wagons, and his vanity wagon on Hally seriously stuck out to me. I think he's hiding there because there's a lot of uncertainty surrounding nutella/SPF/JPIC/whoever and he doesn't want to take a stance on his buddy until it becomes clearer which way the wind is blowing.

I think I'm down for a nook wagon as well.

I'm not sure it doesn't make him obvious town actually.

Why would a mafia manufacture this unless specifically all the main wagons are mafia? What benefit to going after Hally of all people? From a position of vulnerability in the POE especially.

I will add that it came after I saw a post Hally made than made me sceptical of her too so the timing was somewhat of a mindmeld.

[tutuu]

u guys should know that spf is amazing as wolf. she is amazing as town too as proven by her champs games but on em she has like a 54% winrate as mafia last time i checked (which at least imo is huge, i have like 25% winrate as mafia, its rly hard to wolf in those setups) and i remember skimming a few of her games once and like, her tone, her emotions, everything, its all there. like if she is a wolf she wouldnt just roll over and die, just saying!

[nutella]

@nutella -

do you have any specific grievances with those posts other than feeling that they are "manufactured"? i don't want to lock myself into a push against you if you are town but i cant really do all that much with vague reads like that

why does it need to be more specific than that? if I feel like you're manufacturing reads, that's a scumread baby

[Alison]

u guys should know that spf is amazing as wolf. she is amazing as town too as proven by her champs games but on em she has like a 54% winrate as mafia last time i checked (which at least imo is huge, i have like 25% winrate as mafia, its rly hard to wolf in those setups) and i remember skimming a few of her games once and like, her tone, her emotions, everything, its all there. like if she is a wolf she wouldnt just roll over and die, just saying!

Why would she roll over and die if she was town?

[MacDougall]

I feel like this list has high town equity and have seen significant self clearing posts from all of them:

Alison
Dyslexicon
Juliets
Hally
Master Radishes
Poison Chan
Samusamu
staypositivefriend
Timsup2nothin
tutuu

I think this list is probably town, but I have reservations:

DrWilgy - Specifically I cannot resolve some of the angles he's taken in the game, and DrWilgy appears to have finally regathered his wim from years gone by which makes him probably the best player in the entire game ergo foolish to ever trust.
dyachei - I cannot help but feel like they would have towncleared themselves to me if they were town. Have played the game quite myopically.
Herm - The ratio that is the frequency with which I have seen them post, or mentioned vs. the impact they have left on me leaves some to be desired. I would like to see some more reasoned perspectives.
Oddmerta - Despite early clears, appears to have been overwhelmed in a way that can be struggling to find legitimate pathways as mafia, or simply just town that is coasting on being largely townread.
sprityo - Has been scummy in their meta way but I feel they have been spewed clear through TMI.

This list is essentially pure null avocado assholes that should have their feet tickled until they show us their role cards:

ColinIsCool - I don't remember a thing.
Long Con - I can't recall them even posting.

This list is the current POE:

Justplayingitcool - Has been scummy since the start and done really nothing to warrant a clear besides lolcat. Clearing this guy for that behaviour is ridiculous.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - Meta read. Hasn't been mindmelding. Hasn't been talking to me much at all. Feels like someone who is struggling to find legitimate paths to take.
nutella - Meta read. Hasn't been mindmelding. Ignoring the fact I am scumreading her (generally when I scum read her as town she gets mad and either omgussing me or calls me out for being a dumbass).
tedxtr

@MacDougall why is dizzy, spf and tim so high up in your list? can help me read them?

also, i think there's a few players you have been reading in terms of midmeld ratios, is that the only way you should look at them?

you are playing with me for the first time, should you really trust me to put that high up in your list?

Dizzy feels town and is being townread by other townreads. Tim doesn't feel like he is motivated by anything other than trying to solve the game. SPF and I have very similar reads both town and mafia.

Mindmelding with some players I have meta on is a reliable way for me to solve them. Certainly not everyone. We have no flips or anything empirical yet so I am just using the tools I have.

I do believe I've played with you. Also hosted you. Also you seem town and are being town read by some of my townreads. I don't have any issues with you.

okay although i don't and can't sheep your reads because i think most of them are coming from some sort of meta and sheeping other consensus town reads?! but thanks for telling me how you came to that conclusion.

What reads do you disagree with?

[staypositivefriend]

@nutella -

do you have any specific grievances with those posts other than feeling that they are "manufactured"? i don't want to lock myself into a push against you if you are town but i cant really do all that much with vague reads like that

why does it need to be more specific than that? if I feel like you're manufacturing reads, that's a scumread baby

it doesn't need to be more specific, but i'm looking for something to engage w/you on. i can't get more clarity on whether or not your thought process is genuine if your thought process is akin to a "gut" read

[tutuu]

u guys should know that spf is amazing as wolf. she is amazing as town too as proven by her champs games but on em she has like a 54% winrate as mafia last time i checked (which at least imo is huge, i have like 25% winrate as mafia, its rly hard to wolf in those setups) and i remember skimming a few of her games once and like, her tone, her emotions, everything, its all there. like if she is a wolf she wouldnt just roll over and die, just saying!

Why would she roll over and die if she was town?

im not saying that, and im not saying that she is rolling over and dying right now regardless of her alignment

im bringing light on the fact that ppl should be wary of her scum game imo

[Alison]

nanook can be scum for this Hally push tbh

I've been thinking back and forth about it, I hated it on first sight but I didn't want to be biased and automatically scumread someone just because he scumreads my townread. But I was thinking about the way wagons were forming and how Mac helped a lot in consolidating the wagons, and his vanity wagon on Hally seriously stuck out to me. I think he's hiding there because there's a lot of uncertainty surrounding nutella/SPF/JPIC/whoever and he doesn't want to take a stance on his buddy until it becomes clearer which way the wind is blowing.

I think I'm down for a nook wagon as well.

I'm not sure it doesn't make him obvious town actually.

Why would a mafia manufacture this unless specifically all the main wagons are mafia? What benefit to going after Hally of all people? From a position of vulnerability in the POE especially.

I will add that it came after I saw a post Hally made than made me sceptical of her too so the timing was somewhat of a mindmeld.

I appreciate how you and I have been quoting the same posts and forming exact opposite reads off them the entire game, Mac.

I'll put the nook suspicion on the back burner for now. It's not happening today anyway. The response I have is that if it's like one mafia and two town in the mix of people who could die, he doesn't want to get caught on the wagon of the dead townie especially if he's already in the POE, but he doesn't want to bus and potentially help exe a buddy unless he really has to either. Hiding on vanity wagons in a contentious wagon situation is definitely a scummy move. Ted did it last game.

[staypositivefriend]

u guys should know that spf is amazing as wolf. she is amazing as town too as proven by her champs games but on em she has like a 54% winrate as mafia last time i checked (which at least imo is huge, i have like 25% winrate as mafia, its rly hard to wolf in those setups) and i remember skimming a few of her games once and like, her tone, her emotions, everything, its all there. like if she is a wolf she wouldnt just roll over and die, just saying!

i appreciate the flattery. i think i have a pretty good scumgame. it's still not very clear why you think im wolf, though

[MacDougall]

Regarding Nanook I tend to read him well. Nanook makes activity. If that activity lacks self preservation it's >rand town.