Radiohead Mafia [GAME OVER]

#6801

juliets wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:53 pmIt seems like he would know he was vanillarized because the night was open and thus not go to visit tutuu but I'm guessing. Something definitely happened and it could have been along those lines.

Maybe. He might've not gotten notified, just noticed that night was open and still tried to target someone the following night. I have no idea. It's just speculation at this point. But it seems that if night was open and mechanically "shouldn't have been", and also if Wilgy is indeed telling the truth about JPIC targeting Tutu, then it looks like JPIC's role had been kind of turned off, stolen or whatever else. It's kind of impossible to know for sure in role madness setups. But that is one explanation I can immediately think of. In which case, that is a potential of what the 3p does, unless town has such an action unclaimed, since mafia obviously wouldn't target themselves with such a role, at least not on purpose. But that is going either further into speculation I guess. =p

#6802

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:26 pm Yeah, I mean, I get it. I guess the 3p thing is just speculation. I also saw Tim pissing off people, so I guess that is a thing lol. I don't mind either way. I'm honestly confused why Tim would choose to fake a roleblock action, when that is an action pretty easy to verify by the one you roleblock. Seems strange to make up, but what do I know. I only know my result.

I think there are a few reasons to doubt Wilgy as well. He said only one person visited Ted, which is wrong unless Tim is lying outright about both target and action. And I guess he saw JPIC target Tutu. Also a weird lie, if it's lie?

Things kind of don't stack up. But what are supposedly lies are weird and unnecessary lies to make? Does this make sense?

@Alison What do you think?

From my POV there are three really weird things.

1) I did use a roleblock on Ted. When I flip that will be obviously true. But you tracked Ted so my roleblock did not work. Also Wolgy only saw one person at Ted's. This can be explained by you and Wilgy lying, but you seem to really have no reason to do so regardless of alignment.

2) Wilgy tracked JPIC to Tutuu. JPIC's postcapper did not hit Tutuu. Sloonei has verified that getting vigged would NOT stop JPIC's action. This CAN be explained by Wilgy lying.

3) JPIC had a passive power to kill night chat as long as he was alive, and yet we had open night chat N2 and he was alive.

IMO when multiple really weird things are happening there is usually some common thread to them that explains them all. It's not "well a mysterious role blocker blocked Tim, and some mysterious power cancelled JPIC on the night chat, and yet another mysterious power immunized Tutuu.

Wilgy might have just lied, fine. That allows for JPIC to have just not visited Tutuu and it is okay for him only seeing one of us at Ted's...but it doesn't explain your track or JPIC's power failure.

I might have just lied (pro tip, I didn't) and that clears up everything at Ted's...you tracked, Wilgy only saw you, I was out doing evil deeds. But it doesn't connect to either of the other mysteries.

If Wilgy somehow flips green, and I have flipped green as I know I will, I genuinely can't explain any of these three things. So good luck with that.

#6803

juliets wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:38 pm It is true that for me everything does not fit together perfectly. Something is up with JPIC for example. His living should have made us not have Night 2 open thread but we did. Host says it wasn't host error. Night 2 was also the night Wilgy says he tracked JPIC to tutuu. So the whole JPIC N2 thing is just weird. Maybe there was some crazy day action that caused the open night and Wilgy just lied like most people are saying. But the whole thing is suspect to me.

Could he have been put on the lift, his action delayed, and we won't have night 3 chat instead? I ask this with only a loose understanding of whether or not that is possible.

#6804

Tim - Both 2) and 3) can be explained by someone turning off

Regarding 1) Ted visiting you is the track result I got. I really don't know what happened there if you're telling the truth about a block. You would've had to get blocked or redirected yourself. That is kind of a separate issue though. The thing that is connected to it is Wilgy claiming only one person visiting Ted. That person would be me, cause I did get a result.

I don't think any of the flipped scum had a roleblocker ability? It's the most common scum role, so it would not be strange for them to have one.

So it's either just a) you're lying for nefarious reasons, but it's a really bad lie or b) something happened to your night action leaving us with kind of an unfortunate mess. Both are pretty possible.

You, me and Wilgy all being town is pretty possible actually. =p

#6805

Keep in mind, I haven't updated myself on all the claims in the thread. So I don't know what other actions might be relevant here, but I'm assuming someone will let me know if I make assumptions that doesn't fit.

#6806

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:47 pm Oh. JPIC was the reason thread wasn't open on N1. And here I was hoping Cindy Kate had finally come to its senses. What if someone vanillarized JPIC or some similar action, making his whole role useless? Night was open and Tutu wasn't capped. Looks like he was out of function. Does that make things make more sense?

If that happened it MIGHT produce a "JPIC goes to Tutuu's but nothing happens" which would make it possible for Wilgy to be telling the truth about his track. It is also possible that if I were lying and off doing evil deeds he could be telling the truth about seeing one person (you) at Ted's. And if I am the evil 3P with this mysterious day power to disable JPIC that would solve all the mysteries.

I'm not, but for everyone else that's a workable theory. It calls for me to have done a number of wildly dumb things, but that's plausible in most people's view.

#6807

[mention]Timsup2nothin[/mention] It should say "Both 2) and 3) could be explained by someone turning off JPIC's powers in some way."

#6808

Yaaaas, I vote Tim is the 3p vanillarizer that actually targeted JPIC and not Ted, cause that would make everything make sense instantly. =p

I don't feel that's the case though.

#6809

But yeah, there are several issues going on here. There's the JPIC/Wilgy stuff and then there's my claim result conflicting with Tim's claim of a block.

All of these supposed lies makes little sense to make, ngl. So that's not a great sign. I honestly don't feel the "I'm just going to yeet Tim and Wilgy and not think about it" stance is unsatisfying. But then I also haven't contributed much anything to get three mafia off already, so take my opinion with a grain of salt I guess. =p

#6810

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:05 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:38 pm It is true that for me everything does not fit together perfectly. Something is up with JPIC for example. His living should have made us not have Night 2 open thread but we did. Host says it wasn't host error. Night 2 was also the night Wilgy says he tracked JPIC to tutuu. So the whole JPIC N2 thing is just weird. Maybe there was some crazy day action that caused the open night and Wilgy just lied like most people are saying. But the whole thing is suspect to me.
Could he have been put on the lift, his action delayed, and we won't have night 3 chat instead? I ask this with only a loose understanding of whether or not that is possible.

The lift is Tutuu and she targeted Hally, not JPIC. Her action is also a night action, so...that just doesn't work. Sloonei knew we had night chat as soon as night started...not whenever Tutuu sent in her action.

#6811

Alternative solution: This is secretly a bastard game.

#6812

Could there be a misdirector in the mafia or the rogue who misdirected Tim's role block? To who though. Hmm.

Actually it could have been misdirected to me and I would have never known it because two protectives were on Alison if I remember correctly, and tutus protect protected against all things.

#6813

Doesn't solve the JPIC part but I'm not convinced the JPIC stuff doesn't just stand on it's own.

#6814

juliets wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:17 pm Could there be a misdirector in the mafia or the rogue who misdirected Tim's role block? To who though. Hmm.

Actually it could have been misdirected to me and I would have never known it because two protectives were on Alison if I remember correctly, and tutus protect protected against all things.

Switch/redirect is possible. Kind of unfortunate if it happened if Tim is town, cause it makes my result conflict with his claim of action.

#6815

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:47 pm Oh. JPIC was the reason thread wasn't open on N1. And here I was hoping Cindy Kate had finally come to its senses. What if someone vanillarized JPIC or some similar action, making his whole role useless? Night was open and Tutu wasn't capped. Looks like he was out of function. Does that make things make more sense?

that vanillarizer would have to be 3P then. all towns have made their claims, those that haven't have indicated they know nothing about what was going on with JPIC. scum wouldn't hurt their own. so it would have to be 3P. vanillaizer effect makes sense for a 3P in a role madness game though.

#6816

juliets wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:19 pm Doesn't solve the JPIC part but I'm not convinced the JPIC stuff doesn't just stand on it's own.

Yeah, I think it does tbh.

My favorite would be Tim is scum, but is actually also telling the truth and that's why he's so desperate about it. =p

#6817

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:19 pmthat vanillarizer would have to be 3P then. all towns have made their claims, those that haven't have indicated they know nothing about what was going on with JPIC. scum wouldn't hurt their own. so it would have to be 3P. vanillaizer effect makes sense for a 3P in a role madness game though.

Yup. I don't find any other immediate explanation that I can think of. It would solve the JPIC stuff. But it's still a pretty huge assumption.

#6818

juliets wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:17 pm Could there be a misdirector in the mafia or the rogue who misdirected Tim's role block? To who though. Hmm.

Actually it could have been misdirected to me and I would have never known it because two protectives were on Alison if I remember correctly, and tutus protect protected against all things.

why would misdirector target tim here?

#6819

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:19 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:17 pm Could there be a misdirector in the mafia or the rogue who misdirected Tim's role block? To who though. Hmm.

Actually it could have been misdirected to me and I would have never known it because two protectives were on Alison if I remember correctly, and tutus protect protected against all things.
Switch/redirect is possible. Kind of unfortunate if it happened if Tim is town, cause it makes my result conflict with his claim of action.

I never know the right name for roles. I had to look up jester in the MU wiki when it came up! Also voyeur -

#6820

imo we're never going to solve this by debating setup speculation in endless circles so let's just flip tim -> wilgy, see if their roles shed any light on the matter, and if we still can't figure it out we play it mountainous and just straight up ignore night weirdness and exe scummy people. it doesn't matter how twisty the rogue or whatever made the night actions if they get caught on scummy play.

#6821

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:10 pm Yaaaas, I vote Tim is the 3p vanillarizer that actually targeted JPIC and not Ted, cause that would make everything make sense instantly. =p

I don't feel that's the case though.

See I was kinda thinking 3P with a day power vanillarizer targets me day one and JPIC day two...but that means JPIC was vanillad but still traveled so Wilgy could track him, but I did not travel because Wilgy didn't see me.

It also would call the question of why the heck would a 3P vanillarizer target me and JPIC, of all people.

BTW, if I was a 3P vanillarizer I wouldn't have targeted JPIC. Hally was an outed watcher so most dangerous to a 3P skulking in the night, but I might have been willing to assume the wolves would get her. If so I'd have vanillad some other claimed investigative role, like Mac.

#6822

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:22 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:17 pm Could there be a misdirector in the mafia or the rogue who misdirected Tim's role block? To who though. Hmm.

Actually it could have been misdirected to me and I would have never known it because two protectives were on Alison if I remember correctly, and tutus protect protected against all things.
why would misdirector target tim here?

I don't know Alison, I was just brainstorming possibilities. I guess it doesn't make much sense motive wise.

When I have the time I just like to twist and turn suspicions to make sure I'm looking at all angles.

#6823

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:23 pm imo we're never going to solve this by debating setup speculation in endless circles so let's just flip tim -> wilgy, see if their roles shed any light on the matter, and if we still can't figure it out we play it mountainous and just straight up ignore night weirdness and exe scummy people. it doesn't matter how twisty the rogue or whatever made the night actions if they get caught on scummy play.

Ok, but I have a pretty huge problem with why Wilgy would make up weird lies that can be checked. Or why Tim would make up a roleblock he didn't make. So what if we're all town here, what then? Should we just yeet Tim and yeet Wilgy, and what if they flip town? Are you going to spend a day just "having to" yeet me too to see if I made a totally unnecessary lie? That is kind of my problem, if I only think about the claims. And the claims are pretty much the only things I have for context right now myself.

But I mean, whoever is directing this town is doing a better job than I am, I'm just sharing a perspective here.

#6824

Basically,

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#6825

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:23 pm imo we're never going to solve this by debating setup speculation in endless circles so let's just flip tim -> wilgy, see if their roles shed any light on the matter, and if we still can't figure it out we play it mountainous and just straight up ignore night weirdness and exe scummy people. it doesn't matter how twisty the rogue or whatever made the night actions if they get caught on scummy play.

Ok I'll stop. I need to do some work anyway.

#6826

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:27 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:23 pm imo we're never going to solve this by debating setup speculation in endless circles so let's just flip tim -> wilgy, see if their roles shed any light on the matter, and if we still can't figure it out we play it mountainous and just straight up ignore night weirdness and exe scummy people. it doesn't matter how twisty the rogue or whatever made the night actions if they get caught on scummy play.
Ok, but I have a pretty huge problem with why Wilgy would make up weird lies that can be checked. Or why Tim would make up a roleblock he didn't make. So what if we're all town here, what then? Should we just yeet Tim and yeet Wilgy, and what if they flip town? Are you going to spend a day just "having to" yeet me too to see if I made a totally unnecessary lie? That is kind of my problem, if I only think about the claims. And the claims are pretty much the only things I have for context right now myself.

But I mean, whoever is directing this town is doing a better job than I am, I'm just sharing a perspective here.

i really doubt they're both town so it's not a big issue with me. All I know is that excessive setup spec in a closed game with unusual mechanics isn't the right call. You're too unlikely to arrive to the correct answer with this little information and so much conflicting data. We nailed three scum by catching them on their day play. We should continue doing that.

#6827

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:29 pmi really doubt they're both town so it's not a big issue with me. All I know is that excessive setup spec in a closed game with unusual mechanics isn't the right call. You're too unlikely to arrive to the correct answer with this little information and so much conflicting data. We nailed three scum by catching them on their day play. We should continue doing that.

Alright. I'm convinced. =p

I will say, it's > rand scummy of Tim to be this insistent that Wilgy is for sure a dirty liar who should definitely be yeeted before him when it doesn't take me a lot of mental energy to come up with solutions or ways Wilgy could be telling the truth.

So from Tim's pov, when he learns that I have a result that says Ted targeted Tim N1, and Wilgy has a result that says only 1 player targeted Ted. Tim says he believes me, but he doesn't believe Wilgy and takes issue with his 1 player visited Ted-claim. Well, if I have a result that shows that Tim's supposed block wasn't successful, then why is that 1 player part of the claim still an issue? Because my claim and Wilgy's claim are actually compatible on that issue. The one player Wilgy would've seen is me, and not Tim.

Probably thinking to hard about it. Yeet Tim, I trust you/the thread.

#6828

yeah, the attitude that wilgy had makes me trust him more. not enough to not exe him unless something happens, but enough to not make me want to exe him first. he was like "okay, np, let's thunderdome and I'll flip town and out tim", and tim was like super insistent on trying to stay alive and trying to push a specific worldview

#6829

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:23 pm imo we're never going to solve this by debating setup speculation in endless circles so let's just flip tim -> wilgy, see if their roles shed any light on the matter, and if we still can't figure it out we play it mountainous and just straight up ignore night weirdness and exe scummy people. it doesn't matter how twisty the rogue or whatever made the night actions if they get caught on scummy play.

Yeah well I'm about to die so I really don't have anything else to offer. If I were to flip red you can just ignore everything I said.

And the majority of "scummy play" comes from interactions...w/w interactions or w/v interactions trying to push mischops. The 3P isn't involved in that at all so your whole theory falls apart.

The 3P can be totally towny town, so long as they are not so towny that they attract the NK. So the only limit on the 3P at this point is that they cannot have made a claim that makes them an absolute lock early NK target. That's Hally, you, and Tutuu...maybe Mac. If Mac is #P with a wincon he thinks he can hit by day five MAYBE he expects his nebulous "I can't talk about it" investigative role puts him off far enough.

I do not think the 3P is in the lower POE, because they are not being towny enough. I guess randing 3P wouldn't automatically make someone try hard, but it sure seems like it should.

You're gonna follow this "flip Tim, flip Wilgy" plan, and that's fine. I think the reverse order would be better since Wilgy seems obv wolf and this assigning me as 3P seems pretty speculative but with the conflict between my actions and Dizzy's it's understandable. When I flip green there will be suss about Dizzy. I think that's unfortunate because he seems pretty towny other than this action conflict. Whatever you do, please don't go haring off after Dizzy and put Wilgy off AGAIN.

#6830

don't think it's true that scummy play comes from interactions. JPIC and sprityo came under fire really fast and nutella was pushed for meta reasons. I agree that people like Oddmerta who are otherwise clear from interactions have some 3P equity, and have alrady acknowledged that. I have no intention of flipping Dizzy even if you and Wilgy flip town unless I have extra information to prove Dizzy is bad.

I'm not convinced that randing 3P automatically makes someone tryhard, and I'm not convinced that tryharding automatically makes you look townie to the extent that you won't be suspected or put in the POE.

#6831

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:36 pm yeah, the attitude that wilgy had makes me trust him more. not enough to not exe him unless something happens, but enough to not make me want to exe him first. he was like "okay, np, let's thunderdome and I'll flip town and out tim", and tim was like super insistent on trying to stay alive and trying to push a specific worldview

Yeah, well, "trust me even though in this case I'm wrong...just lay down and die and leave the game in my capable hands" is not something I'm really good about. You're the one who wants me dead so bad, and I have no interest in thunderdoming you. You're wrong, and you're reasoning is absent, but you're still on the very very short list of people I think are not only not wolves but not 3P either.

#6832

i doubt mac is 3P, he's townsided too much.

#6833

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:47 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:36 pm yeah, the attitude that wilgy had makes me trust him more. not enough to not exe him unless something happens, but enough to not make me want to exe him first. he was like "okay, np, let's thunderdome and I'll flip town and out tim", and tim was like super insistent on trying to stay alive and trying to push a specific worldview
Yeah, well, "trust me even though in this case I'm wrong...just lay down and die and leave the game in my capable hands" is not something I'm really good about. You're the one who wants me dead so bad, and I have no interest in thunderdoming you. You're wrong, and you're reasoning is absent, but you're still on the very very short list of people I think are not only not wolves but not 3P either.

the truth is that my reasoning is present and has been acknowledged by everyone else in the thread so clearly it exists and you repeatedly asserting it doesn't does not make your claim true. I also don't care whether or not you think I'm wrong - I'm taking the action that leads to the best probability of town winning, and "I know I'm town so don't execute me" is not a defense that affects that calculation.

#6834

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:35 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:29 pmi really doubt they're both town so it's not a big issue with me. All I know is that excessive setup spec in a closed game with unusual mechanics isn't the right call. You're too unlikely to arrive to the correct answer with this little information and so much conflicting data. We nailed three scum by catching them on their day play. We should continue doing that.
Alright. I'm convinced. =p

I will say, it's > rand scummy of Tim to be this insistent that Wilgy is for sure a dirty liar who should definitely be yeeted before him when it doesn't take me a lot of mental energy to come up with solutions or ways Wilgy could be telling the truth.

So from Tim's pov, when he learns that I have a result that says Ted targeted Tim N1, and Wilgy has a result that says only 1 player targeted Ted. Tim says he believes me, but he doesn't believe Wilgy and takes issue with his 1 player visited Ted-claim. Well, if I have a result that shows that Tim's supposed block wasn't successful, then why is that 1 player part of the claim still an issue? Because my claim and Wilgy's claim are actually compatible on that issue. The one player Wilgy would've seen is me, and not Tim.

Probably thinking to hard about it. Yeet Tim, I trust you/the thread.

Please point out this "easy way that Wilgy is telling the truth." Brother I TRIED to find a way that Wilgy could be telling the truth. I went looking for "JPIC gets vigged AFTER Wilgy tracks but BEFORE he postcaps Tutuu because that made sense...but Sloonei shot that down. I went looking for "JPIC gets roleblocked but tracker still reads his intent." Sloonei shot that down too.

I'm at "Tutuu's lift power makes her immune to non lethal powers but it isn't mentioned in her role card" or "someone with a power like Juliet's that has not claimed it protected Tutuu." Neither of those seem nearly as simple as Wilgy is just a wolf. Like not even in the same order of magnitude.

At the same time, I know I at least tried to go to Ted's on N1. It seems unlikely that you would lie about it, so Wilgy's other result seems false as well. What went wrong with my roleblock is a hard question (for me, I understand that from out there I can just be lying) but Wilgy still looks like this part of his claim isn't true either.

So I have actually put in a whole lot of mental energy looking for ways Wilgy could be telling the truth.

#6835

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:49 pm
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:47 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:36 pm yeah, the attitude that wilgy had makes me trust him more. not enough to not exe him unless something happens, but enough to not make me want to exe him first. he was like "okay, np, let's thunderdome and I'll flip town and out tim", and tim was like super insistent on trying to stay alive and trying to push a specific worldview
Yeah, well, "trust me even though in this case I'm wrong...just lay down and die and leave the game in my capable hands" is not something I'm really good about. You're the one who wants me dead so bad, and I have no interest in thunderdoming you. You're wrong, and you're reasoning is absent, but you're still on the very very short list of people I think are not only not wolves but not 3P either.
the truth is that my reasoning is present and has been acknowledged by everyone else in the thread so clearly it exists and you repeatedly asserting it doesn't does not make your claim true. I also don't care whether or not you think I'm wrong - I'm taking the action that leads to the best probability of town winning, and "I know I'm town so don't execute me" is not a defense that affects that calculation.

Yeah, no kidding...maybe that's why I never have and never would say something so flat stupid...but thanks.

#6836

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:59 pmPlease point out this "easy way that Wilgy is telling the truth." Brother I TRIED to find a way that Wilgy could be telling the truth. I went looking for "JPIC gets vigged AFTER Wilgy tracks but BEFORE he postcaps Tutuu because that made sense...but Sloonei shot that down. I went looking for "JPIC gets roleblocked but tracker still reads his intent." Sloonei shot that down too.

I'm at "Tutuu's lift power makes her immune to non lethal powers but it isn't mentioned in her role card" or "someone with a power like Juliet's that has not claimed it protected Tutuu." Neither of those seem nearly as simple as Wilgy is just a wolf. Like not even in the same order of magnitude.

At the same time, I know I at least tried to go to Ted's on N1. It seems unlikely that you would lie about it, so Wilgy's other result seems false as well. What went wrong with my roleblock is a hard question (for me, I understand that from out there I can just be lying) but Wilgy still looks like this part of his claim isn't true either.

So I have actually put in a whole lot of mental energy looking for ways Wilgy could be telling the truth.

Isn't JPIC's role not working consistent with both there being N2 chat and Wilgy's claim?
I kind of see the JPIC stuff and your block stuff as unrelated issues. At least that seems most likely.

What is Wilgy's motivation for claiming that JPIC targeted Tutu if it didn't happen? Couldn't he just have like ...not done it, if he knew it wasn't true? =p

#6837

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:35 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:31 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:24 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:20 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:52 pm Answering several privately asked questions all at once:

I am not currently aware of any Host errors occurring on Night 2.
Ok this was my question and was targeted at whether Sloonei would tell us if he made an error reporting results. So, this means Wilgy saying "JK, it was a host error" is not true. The host didn't make an error in notifying Wilgy of results of his "JPIC track". This makes me much more suspicious of Dr. Wilgy. @DrWilgy do you have another explanation you want to offer regarding why you first said JPIC didn't move and then changed that to JK, JPIC visited tutuu?

I still have my vote on Tim right now much for the same reason as tutuu in that I consider him a higher risk to be 3P but I could change it to Wilgy before the day is out. Chances seem good to me that Wilgy is mafia and Tim is 3P, though I guess Tim could be town. My 3P suspicion is born mostly from Tim's heated arguments that he should live.

@dyachei I'm very interested in your opinion of Tim here as to whether you see the 3P possibility or just how you feel about that possibility. The way I read you last night you are seeing him as town but I just want to make sure.
Nope. Got a message saying JPIC didn't visit anyone then shortly afterwards got a message that said there was a correction and JPIC visited Tutuu.
So @DrWilgy how do you explain Sloonei's comment that no host errors were made?
I can't, nor am I going to pretend to try.

Tbh tbh

#6838

Dizzy, I was wrong when I surmised that Sloonei said that and was talking about the JPIC thing. If you keep reading you'll see where I recanted.

#6839

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:27 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:23 pm imo we're never going to solve this by debating setup speculation in endless circles so let's just flip tim -> wilgy, see if their roles shed any light on the matter, and if we still can't figure it out we play it mountainous and just straight up ignore night weirdness and exe scummy people. it doesn't matter how twisty the rogue or whatever made the night actions if they get caught on scummy play.
Ok, but I have a pretty huge problem with why Wilgy would make up weird lies that can be checked. Or why Tim would make up a roleblock he didn't make. So what if we're all town here, what then? Should we just yeet Tim and yeet Wilgy, and what if they flip town? Are you going to spend a day just "having to" yeet me too to see if I made a totally unnecessary lie? That is kind of my problem, if I only think about the claims. And the claims are pretty much the only things I have for context right now myself.

But I mean, whoever is directing this town is doing a better job than I am, I'm just sharing a perspective here.

My concern is that even if Wilgy flips wolf as I expect you will still be next because your claim is still going to conflict with mine unless Wilgy flips something that explains how our results conflict here.

I had no reason to lie...in fact I had a perfectly good lie going when I claimed MD instead of RB and could have stuck with it. I'm gonna flip and that will put paid to any "well Tim just lied" theories. You have no reason to lie as 3P, and as W with Wilgy your claim is outright counterproductive so I just assume you aren't lying. But you're gonna get the "well you're in the POE anyway so may as well flip you rather than think about it" treatment.

So that gets town through day five with (hopefully) four wolves down but still really nothing to go on with regards to the 3P. If Wilgy somehow flips green it's even worse, but that already seems not great to me. I hate dying when winning looks like a sketchy prospect.

#6840

juliets wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:13 pm If you keep reading [...]

NOPE!

=p

Also, sorry, everyone. I'm not usually a slanker, but it happens. Sometimes I sign up for games having the time to play it at that moment. And then it starts like a month later when I absolutely don't have the time to keep up.

I'll just continue sheeping the thread and doing whatever night actions I can. Seems to be working out pretty good so far.

#6841

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:14 pmBut you're gonna get the "well you're in the POE anyway so may as well flip you rather than think about it" treatment.

Meh. I would need more than that.

#6842

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:03 pm
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:59 pmPlease point out this "easy way that Wilgy is telling the truth." Brother I TRIED to find a way that Wilgy could be telling the truth. I went looking for "JPIC gets vigged AFTER Wilgy tracks but BEFORE he postcaps Tutuu because that made sense...but Sloonei shot that down. I went looking for "JPIC gets roleblocked but tracker still reads his intent." Sloonei shot that down too.

I'm at "Tutuu's lift power makes her immune to non lethal powers but it isn't mentioned in her role card" or "someone with a power like Juliet's that has not claimed it protected Tutuu." Neither of those seem nearly as simple as Wilgy is just a wolf. Like not even in the same order of magnitude.

At the same time, I know I at least tried to go to Ted's on N1. It seems unlikely that you would lie about it, so Wilgy's other result seems false as well. What went wrong with my roleblock is a hard question (for me, I understand that from out there I can just be lying) but Wilgy still looks like this part of his claim isn't true either.

So I have actually put in a whole lot of mental energy looking for ways Wilgy could be telling the truth.
Isn't JPIC's role not working consistent with both there being N2 chat and Wilgy's claim?
I kind of see the JPIC stuff and your block stuff as unrelated issues. At least that seems most likely.

What is Wilgy's motivation for claiming that JPIC targeted Tutu if it didn't happen? Couldn't he just have like ...not done it, if he knew it wasn't true? =p

I guess there might be a consistency there, though I would have thought that if JPIC were so totally blocked up that even his passive power was shut down that he wouldn't have been able to move. Seems odd that his passive power was cancelled, but he still got to go out and then his power just didn't work.

It seems especially odd to me because I tried to apply the same power to explain my roleblock on Ted apparently failing...but that would mean I would still have moved and Wilgy would have seen two not one. So from my POV the theory that gets Wilgy possibly true on JPIC makes his other result even more likely false.

My only theory for why he does it involves it being planned while JPIC was alive. Say at SoD2 JPIC the claimed alignment cop says "okay, I checked Tutuu last night and she's green." That has really no chance to get JPIC off the hook. We all knew Tutuu was green anyway. But someone who was not really suss claiming "yeah, I didn't trust JPIC so I tracked him, and hey he did go visit Tutuu" would have made it pretty sticky to hold the case on JPIC. At that point Tutuu not being post capped basically means tht JPIC is not the post capper, and Nanook becomes the catch of the day. Wilgy is gonna get asked "well, who did you track N1?" and he has this complex power with a random watcher and saw me visit Ted...that was already known so okay fake.

This is pretty squishy motivation since it doesn't put JPIC off forever and it ties Wilgy to JPIC, but sometimes buying time is worth it depending on who the last wolf in that scenario is. I dunno.

#6843

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:18 pm
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:14 pmBut you're gonna get the "well you're in the POE anyway so may as well flip you rather than think about it" treatment.
Meh. I would need more than that.

Pro tip...when they start saying it don't tell them they are just being dumb.

#6844

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:30 pmPro tip...when they start saying it don't tell them they are just being dumb.

I will mock them. =p

#6845

But like, has Wilgy, Dya and me all claimed some sort of Tracker ability? That's a lot of Tracking ability.

#6846

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:34 pm But like, has Wilgy, Dya and me all claimed some sort of Tracker ability? That's a lot of Tracking ability.

And Hally was definitely a watcher...and even if Wilgy is randomly targeting TWO watchers is a WHOLE lot of watchers. One watcher basically blew up two wolves. Two trackers, a watcher, a conditional watcher/tracker...Alison is an alignment cop, Mac has some nebulous investigative role he can't talk about...it's a ton of town PR. Heck, it's a ton of town PR WITHOUT Wilgy.

#6847

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:14 pmI hate dying when winning looks like a sketchy prospect.

"winning looks like a sketchy prospect" does not seem like a natural attitude for town to have given the events of this game

#6848

Can someone explain Herm's role to me? I don't understand the results we have for him which are 1) Amnesiac - no result and 2) Kid A - no result. These roles that have to do with song titles are mashing together in my mind so I want to be clear on them.

#6849

juliets wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:16 pm Can someone explain Herm's role to me? I don't understand the results we have for him which are 1) Amnesiac - no result and 2) Kid A - no result. These roles that have to do with song titles are mashing together in my mind so I want to be clear on them.

Every night, Herm selects an album. If any song in that album contains a song used by a member of scum, they are informed of it. As best as I can tell, that is what their role does.

#6850

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:22 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:09 am we can probably use herm's role in combination with poison chan as pseudo peeks?

force dr wilgy to claim his song and album

herm checks the album to find if there are any scum in it

poison chan checks to make sure dr wilgy says the truth

or anyone else not just dr wilgy
@MacDougall what do u think should we force someone to claim song

Yeah probably the whole POE. If the rogue kills them all then yay.

Top 3 Radiohead albums?