Escape From Russia [GAME OVER]

[Hally]

[mention]Vulgard[/mention] could you link a recent scum game?

[Hally]

https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/searc ... sf=msgonly

link to 112’s iso from their recent scum game ^

it... seems pretty different to me? she’s a lot more free flowing here than she was there

[mention]Vulgard[/mention] [mention]dunya[/mention] would you look at this and tell me what you think?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’m having second hand deja vu lmao

wdym

I scumread her entrance

ISO’d a couple of her past entrances

Flipped it to a townread

[Hally]

I’m having second hand deja vu lmao

wdym

I scumread her entrance

ISO’d a couple of her past entrances

Flipped it to a townread

in that game you mean? or in this game?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I actually did compare her entrance this game to that one back around the time you asked for a read on them, and it didn’t look dramatically different to me tbh

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’m having second hand deja vu lmao

wdym

I scumread her entrance

ISO’d a couple of her past entrances

Flipped it to a townread

in that game you mean? or in this game?

In that game

[Ash Lael]

I feel like Ash's post just now is very mafia. "I do not townread anyone, you guys are aligning too closely together, I have to break you up." Could come from a discontent townie in theory, but every single take in the post is a somewhat hedgy suspicion instead of a concrete town/scumread. And that really bothers me.
There are also additional excuses for not having reads on the lower posters, which I deem unnecessary to include unless you're very self-conscious. And mafia are the ones who have to be somewhat self-conscious. Yadda yadda.

Sorry if you're town, Ash, but I really didn't like your response just now, for the reasons mentioned above.

I'm trying to engage with you; the post you just quoted was an attempt to do that. Why do you think me/112 are V/V? What makes you think we're townies butting our heads against one another?
Also, what is your take on the me/Arete thing? You don't seem concerned about that at all. (A part of me is tinfoiling that you are TMIng both of us town and that is why you are not concerned.)

Come on man. That’s not being fair at all. I’ve been very clear about who I townread and how strongly and why. It’s not even slightly true to say I’ve got no townreads, or that I’m trying to break up people aligning together.

I think you’re wrong on 112 because I think her case on you was clearly motivated by town instincts, just like how I think your cases on people have been clearly motivated by town instincts (though on 112 specifically I frankly think you’ve got a fair bit of subconscious omgus going on). Obviously I think you’re both wrong in your conclusions, but I can see the process and I respect it. I think you’ll probably get there on each other eventually.

The thing with you and Arete did give me pause, and I said so. But ultimately I decided to just stick with my own reads while I waited for that situation to develop. Maybe it really is a w/t situation and Arete is the wolf. Maybe it’s t/t and you’ll find each other after butting heads a bit. It just didn’t feel worth dropping my own confident townread wholesale before seeing how it went.

[Vulgard]

Hally, linking a scumgame of mine would be problematic, because I'm playing differently here than I did in my last scumgame. There is one game in particular I could link, but I wasn't mafia for the entirety of it (we frequently play with conversion).

For those reasons, I don't think it's going to help you.

Currently reading 112's mafia ISO.

[Ash Lael]

town:
nook
tutuu

town lean:
tony
poison
ted
lc
vul
arete

idk yet:
ash
112
michelle
dunya

absent:
wilgy
trip


im like here? i could put more ppl in hard town if i wanted. like tony maybe. as soon as he started posting i was like “that’s town!tsp,” but i just want to wait before locking that in

ted as well could be hard town for me but im keeping him one lower out of respect for his scum game/because i know he can fool me

i do see what some people are saying about poison (dunya and vul i think) that she maybe isn’t giving many concrete takes? but i know she absolutely hates being mafia so i find her engagement here to be town indicative. i think she’d come off flatter and post less as scum. not gonna lock it in because concerns are noted but i feel good about her

lc seems like town!lc to me. caveat us he said he would play differently from last game if he randed scum again. w/e. still a town lean

vul/arete is pending further interactions and stuff from them but i can’t help but tr vul’s posts here even if arete says he can do them as scum. the solving and moments of doubt and everything just read very genuine to me. if arete feels strongly at EoD that vul is just mafia, i’ll have to consider that though. and for arete, i think how they’ve approached vul seems pretty natural. i don’t get the sense they’re forcing themselves to read him one way or another. i also think vul reading arete town makes them more likely town regardless of vul’s alignment. would like more content from arete though

im keeping 112/ash where they are because i cant decide what i think of them. i need to iso them and try to get more clarity. atm idk if i actually have any issues with either of them or if im just scared of not being able to read them well and sponging people who sr them. tbd

dunya and michelle i just want to wait and see on

wilgy/trip... yea

so like, i don’t actually have any scum reads atm, which is not like... great but idk what to do about it. nobody sticks out to me as like obvious mafia rn

I don’t know what to make of the fact that we’re seeing the game so similarly in some ways but your strongest townreads are my scumreads. But it’s a thing.

[Vulgard]

I'm not sure if I'm blind, but I don't see a very notable contrast? There are few developed reads, and most of the takes are very surface-level, but a few "somewhat deeper insights" also exist. I don't think it's not similar to what 112 has done in the current game so far. I might change my mind as the game progresses, if 112 and me both survive.

[Vulgard]

112 does sound anxious in a few of her posts in that game, but she hasn't posted enough in the current game for me to figure out if she's anxious here as well.

[Hally]

I actually did compare her entrance this game to that one back around the time you asked for a read on them, and it didn’t look dramatically different to me tbh

not talking about her entrance, i’m talking about the solving/reads that came after

[Hally]

I’m having second hand deja vu lmao

wdym

I scumread her entrance

ISO’d a couple of her past entrances

Flipped it to a townread

in that game you mean? or in this game?

In that game

ah

[Ash Lael]

I have actually answered you ash, you just didn’t like the answer so I started being snarky when you kept asking

My problem was the answer wasn’t really an answer.

“Why did you say they were town?” “Well I thought they were townie.” Do you see how that doesn’t really tell me anything?

[Hally]

Hally, linking a scumgame of mine would be problematic, because I'm playing differently here than I did in my last scumgame. There is one game in particular I could link, but I wasn't mafia for the entirety of it (we frequently play with conversion).

For those reasons, I don't think it's going to help you.

Currently reading 112's mafia ISO.

alright

[Vulgard]

I think I just need 112 to post more in this game for a better meta comparison.
I'm also not sure if 112 is a very polarizing player. I know I was a VERY polarizing player for a while.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Their posts felt townie, they hit notes that I associate with a townie entrance.

That’s the answer, there isn’t more to it than that

[Hally]

town:
nook
tutuu

town lean:
tony
poison
ted
lc
vul
arete

idk yet:
ash
112
michelle
dunya

absent:
wilgy
trip


im like here? i could put more ppl in hard town if i wanted. like tony maybe. as soon as he started posting i was like “that’s town!tsp,” but i just want to wait before locking that in

ted as well could be hard town for me but im keeping him one lower out of respect for his scum game/because i know he can fool me

i do see what some people are saying about poison (dunya and vul i think) that she maybe isn’t giving many concrete takes? but i know she absolutely hates being mafia so i find her engagement here to be town indicative. i think she’d come off flatter and post less as scum. not gonna lock it in because concerns are noted but i feel good about her

lc seems like town!lc to me. caveat us he said he would play differently from last game if he randed scum again. w/e. still a town lean

vul/arete is pending further interactions and stuff from them but i can’t help but tr vul’s posts here even if arete says he can do them as scum. the solving and moments of doubt and everything just read very genuine to me. if arete feels strongly at EoD that vul is just mafia, i’ll have to consider that though. and for arete, i think how they’ve approached vul seems pretty natural. i don’t get the sense they’re forcing themselves to read him one way or another. i also think vul reading arete town makes them more likely town regardless of vul’s alignment. would like more content from arete though

im keeping 112/ash where they are because i cant decide what i think of them. i need to iso them and try to get more clarity. atm idk if i actually have any issues with either of them or if im just scared of not being able to read them well and sponging people who sr them. tbd

dunya and michelle i just want to wait and see on

wilgy/trip... yea

so like, i don’t actually have any scum reads atm, which is not like... great but idk what to do about it. nobody sticks out to me as like obvious mafia rn

I don’t know what to make of the fact that we’re seeing the game so similarly in some ways but your strongest townreads are my scumreads. But it’s a thing.

your strongest sr’s are tutuu/nook right? i get why you could read them like you do if you don’t know them but like, idk

[Ash Lael]

Their posts felt townie, they hit notes that I associate with a townie entrance.

That’s the answer, there isn’t more to it than that

But like... what notes? Why do you associate those notes with a townie entrance? Why did those posts feel townie?

This is just more “it is what it is”. There’s no actual explanation.

[Hally]

I'm not sure if I'm blind, but I don't see a very notable contrast? There are few developed reads, and most of the takes are very surface-level, but a few "somewhat deeper insights" also exist. I don't think it's not similar to what 112 has done in the current game so far. I might change my mind as the game progresses, if 112 and me both survive.

hm. ok. i think she’s more stilted in her solving in that game as opposed to here where it seems more natural. like a lot of her reads in that game feel kinda hedgy and i don’t think they’re anywhere near as strong or insightful as her takes on you and poison in this game for example

[Ash Lael]

town:
nook
tutuu

town lean:
tony
poison
ted
lc
vul
arete

idk yet:
ash
112
michelle
dunya

absent:
wilgy
trip


im like here? i could put more ppl in hard town if i wanted. like tony maybe. as soon as he started posting i was like “that’s town!tsp,” but i just want to wait before locking that in

ted as well could be hard town for me but im keeping him one lower out of respect for his scum game/because i know he can fool me

i do see what some people are saying about poison (dunya and vul i think) that she maybe isn’t giving many concrete takes? but i know she absolutely hates being mafia so i find her engagement here to be town indicative. i think she’d come off flatter and post less as scum. not gonna lock it in because concerns are noted but i feel good about her

lc seems like town!lc to me. caveat us he said he would play differently from last game if he randed scum again. w/e. still a town lean

vul/arete is pending further interactions and stuff from them but i can’t help but tr vul’s posts here even if arete says he can do them as scum. the solving and moments of doubt and everything just read very genuine to me. if arete feels strongly at EoD that vul is just mafia, i’ll have to consider that though. and for arete, i think how they’ve approached vul seems pretty natural. i don’t get the sense they’re forcing themselves to read him one way or another. i also think vul reading arete town makes them more likely town regardless of vul’s alignment. would like more content from arete though

im keeping 112/ash where they are because i cant decide what i think of them. i need to iso them and try to get more clarity. atm idk if i actually have any issues with either of them or if im just scared of not being able to read them well and sponging people who sr them. tbd

dunya and michelle i just want to wait and see on

wilgy/trip... yea

so like, i don’t actually have any scum reads atm, which is not like... great but idk what to do about it. nobody sticks out to me as like obvious mafia rn

I don’t know what to make of the fact that we’re seeing the game so similarly in some ways but your strongest townreads are my scumreads. But it’s a thing.

your strongest sr’s are tutuu/nook right? i get why you could read them like you do if you don’t know them but like, idk

Do you think maybe you could talk me through how you’d expect them to be acting differently if they were scum?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Their posts felt townie, they hit notes that I associate with a townie entrance.

That’s the answer, there isn’t more to it than that

But like... what notes? Why do you associate those notes with a townie entrance? Why did those posts feel townie?

This is just more “it is what it is”. There’s no actual explanation.

I don’t explain my reads in minute detail, and I don’t plan to start now. I gave you the explanation, take it or leave it, I no longer give a fuck

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Call it a gut read if that helps you

[Hally]

ash, i don’t think you’re going to get a more satisfying answer out of nook. this is how he is. if you’re looking for elaborate and well explained reasoning for reads, you won’t get that with him. he goes a lot based on gut/instinct. it’s probably not a great use of your time in this game to try to force him to give reads in the way you want him to because he won’t do it and you’ll just get more frustrated

[Hally]

town:
nook
tutuu

town lean:
tony
poison
ted
lc
vul
arete

idk yet:
ash
112
michelle
dunya

absent:
wilgy
trip


im like here? i could put more ppl in hard town if i wanted. like tony maybe. as soon as he started posting i was like “that’s town!tsp,” but i just want to wait before locking that in

ted as well could be hard town for me but im keeping him one lower out of respect for his scum game/because i know he can fool me

i do see what some people are saying about poison (dunya and vul i think) that she maybe isn’t giving many concrete takes? but i know she absolutely hates being mafia so i find her engagement here to be town indicative. i think she’d come off flatter and post less as scum. not gonna lock it in because concerns are noted but i feel good about her

lc seems like town!lc to me. caveat us he said he would play differently from last game if he randed scum again. w/e. still a town lean

vul/arete is pending further interactions and stuff from them but i can’t help but tr vul’s posts here even if arete says he can do them as scum. the solving and moments of doubt and everything just read very genuine to me. if arete feels strongly at EoD that vul is just mafia, i’ll have to consider that though. and for arete, i think how they’ve approached vul seems pretty natural. i don’t get the sense they’re forcing themselves to read him one way or another. i also think vul reading arete town makes them more likely town regardless of vul’s alignment. would like more content from arete though

im keeping 112/ash where they are because i cant decide what i think of them. i need to iso them and try to get more clarity. atm idk if i actually have any issues with either of them or if im just scared of not being able to read them well and sponging people who sr them. tbd

dunya and michelle i just want to wait and see on

wilgy/trip... yea

so like, i don’t actually have any scum reads atm, which is not like... great but idk what to do about it. nobody sticks out to me as like obvious mafia rn

I don’t know what to make of the fact that we’re seeing the game so similarly in some ways but your strongest townreads are my scumreads. But it’s a thing.

your strongest sr’s are tutuu/nook right? i get why you could read them like you do if you don’t know them but like, idk

Do you think maybe you could talk me through how you’d expect them to be acting differently if they were scum?

well i’ve never seen tutuu as scum. she hasn’t randed scum in years. but everything she’s done this game is in line with what i think of as her town self

for nook, i saw him as mafia one game. not sure i could adequately explain the difference without going back to check his iso there but basically, i think he actually cares about solving in his own nanook way. like his takes on things don’t feel fake given what i know of him idk

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

There’s more to it than just gut/instinct fwiw, but it’s easier to just say “it’s gut/instinct.” I am fairly thorough and fairly accurate, but I don’t show most of my work beyond the conclusion most of the time.

[Hally]

every time ash is itt i kinda feel like he’s probably just town but if i take 112/ash both as town i have at least a town lean on everyone except michelle/dunya/wilgy/trip and its not like i can’t see mich/dunya as town too. so my reads are probably wrong and im bad at mafia. cool

[Hally]

there’s some games where i have like really strong and accurate sr’s right from the start and then there’s games like this one where i can’t get any sr’s and basically just wanna tr everyone. not sure what to do about that lol

[Vulgard]

I think I'm bad at mafia every single game, including this game. But I'm desperately trying to improve.

I want to townread Ash too. There's just something... off about his posts.

[Hally]

nook why are you voting arete what

[Ash Lael]

every time ash is itt i kinda feel like he’s probably just town but if i take 112/ash both as town i have at least a town lean on everyone except michelle/dunya/wilgy/trip and its not like i can’t see mich/dunya as town too. so my reads are probably wrong and im bad at mafia. cool

Or it’s G8 again and the whole scum team is in the bottom three posters and we’re all just townies chasing our tails.

[Hally]

every time ash is itt i kinda feel like he’s probably just town but if i take 112/ash both as town i have at least a town lean on everyone except michelle/dunya/wilgy/trip and its not like i can’t see mich/dunya as town too. so my reads are probably wrong and im bad at mafia. cool

Or it’s G8 again and the whole scum team is in the bottom three posters and we’re all just townies chasing our tails.

possible

[Vulgard]

Imagine if the only remaining 0 poster is mafia and we kill them before they can post once.

[Hally]

except me. i wasn’t a townie remember

[Hally]

Imagine if the only remaining 0 poster is mafia and we kill them before they can post once.

ftr im pretty sure trip has somewhat of a habit of flaking on games atp and im not really sure it’s AI. i think she just forgets she’s in games sometimes idk

[Vulgard]

Are you a townie in this game, Hally?

[Ash Lael]

except me. i wasn’t a townie remember

Yeah but you subbed into Steele’s slot. The team day 1 was Drums/Steele/Berz.

[Vulgard]

I don't know, I've played one game with TripleHaven and she was active enough for me to remember that she existed. She was town PR.

[Hally]

Are you a townie in this game, Hally?

have i not made that incredibly obvious

[Vulgard]

Would I ask if it was obvious to me?

[Hally]

I don't know, I've played one game with TripleHaven and she was active enough for me to remember that she existed. She was town PR.

it’s not every game. but this is her first game here so maybe she just forgot to check the site idk

[Hally]

Would I ask if it was obvious to me?

i... suppose not

[tutuu]

where's my baby tutuu?

i can't play without her positive energy guiding me in the right direction tbh

your baby tutuu apologizes but she doesnt know if she has any positive energy left

[Ash Lael]

where's my baby tutuu?

i can't play without her positive energy guiding me in the right direction tbh

your baby tutuu apologizes but she doesnt know if she has any positive energy left

Tutuu, talk to me. Why are you voting Vulgard? What is your read on me right now?

[Vulgard]

I'm just going to quote a post I wrote about Hally in a specchat after they flipped mafia in the champs game.

"I agree with Hally's reads very, very strongly. I think I would swap dya with Radishes, and Phighter with Dobby, but overall, this looks good.

Hally is still very town."

Are you that surprised I'm not townlocking you?

[Vulgard]

Before they flipped mafia, I mean. Not after.

[Vulgard]

Hally has a playstyle which simply autopockets me. I'm going to be wary of them for the entire game, most likely.

[Hally]

I'm just going to quote a post I wrote about Hally in a specchat after they flipped mafia in the champs game.

"I agree with Hally's reads very, very strongly. I think I would swap dya with Radishes, and Phighter with Dobby, but overall, this looks good.

Hally is still very town."

Are you that surprised I'm not townlocking you?

i guess not. i probably should get used to a lot more paranoia about me in general given that everyone has now seen what i can do as scum

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

nook why are you voting arete what

There were two on vulgard already at the time

And I’ve been too lazy to move

[tutuu]

where's my baby tutuu?

i can't play without her positive energy guiding me in the right direction tbh

your baby tutuu apologizes but she doesnt know if she has any positive energy left

Tutuu, talk to me. Why are you voting Vulgard? What is your read on me right now?

arete has most experience with him and says he's maf. 112 seems town to me and says he's maf. so i sheep

idk about my read on u. it will probably wrong even if i try. im just trying to find someone to sheep