Escape From Russia [GAME OVER]

[112]

[mention]tutuu[/mention] we need to do the MU hydra event together. we'll be One one two two.

[tedxtr]

lmao

[tutuu]

@tutuu we need to do the MU hydra event together. we'll be One one two two.

loooool thats rly funny!

[tedxtr]

Looking forward to playing with syndicate hydras

[Hally]

poison may as well be an IC this game

No

but really, yes

[Epignosis]

TSP was scummy to me, or at the very least, less towny than most other people in the game. Other people (who I townread) brought a few compelling arguments to the table. I didn't believe that TSP had any idea how to defend himself, which is not what I would expect from a townie placed in the position he was in.

That's three sentences or fewer, right?

It's rather what I would expect from Tony, I would say.

[Epignosis]

The poll options leave a lot to be desired, G-Man.

[Michelle]

poison may as well be an IC this game

No

but really, yes

Wanna bet?

[Hally]

Spoiler: show

villas

Poison
112
Nanook

weaker villas

Michelle
TSP
LC

not reading lol

Hally
tutuu


PoE

dunya
Wilgy
Arete
Vulgard
Ash Lael

=====================

the people in "not reading lol" are not placed in PoE because I believe they're self resolving ; gun to head I'd say tutuu is probably townier than hally and if there would have to be a scum there, it's probably Hally (again, not saying there HAS TO BE ONE, just that, without reading their ISOs and going off what I've skimmed and feels and stuff, Hally looks worse than tutuu. They are in "not reading" because they have too many poasts and technically, they aren't scum reads or town reads of mine, they are more like...they get self-resolved. simple as that. Hally!scum top posting signs herself to a death wish late game. She'd have to answer a shitty question to fight against "why is Hally alive?" etc etc)

villas bracket

Nanook - actually haven't read his posts in isolation, I went with my gut feel of what I've skimmed and he doesn't really look like he's posting with an agenda to me. figures shit out, wants to yeet low posters whereas scum wouldn't be leading yeets there imo. level 1 stuff that I'm fine having him town for.

Poison - self-explanatory, everybody has the read.

112 - feel like she's stark different from her wolf play. Don't think she starts early game with reads, she keeps solving, has heaps between one liners and more depth of thought things. Liking pretty much ~all of her takes and comments. I'd be surprised if I'm being fooled here. It'd have to be a major improvement.

weaker villas

Michelle - liked her snark early on, liking the Poison push, her dunya case is good, think I can see some residue of her previous town meta in the way she's approaching her pushes.

TSP - Yeah so thinking about it, my case wasn't that good (which I've mentioned!) and they had a reasonable explanation for each and every loop hole. The way they've reacted to people poking holes in his reads and actions was prettay villager-y, the post I've quoted was pretty good. I'll just assume he's a town for now.

LC - I believe this is probably a stellar performance for him if he's a wolf. He's doing all the right things. Correcting people on their pushes on him (Hally calling him town for not being scum, he replied with "I'd copy my meta perfectly"), calling people out for town leaning him. I believe I can see some reasoning behind some of his pushes but he doesn't look like he wants to get any credit out of it. I believe if he's a wolf, he's posting primarily with the agenda of being town read and nothing else, and still, he'd be correcting a few holes in his scum play but allowing others to make him susceptible to scum reads, so that doesn't make a ton of sense in my head if he's a wolf looking to act exactly against his usual scum meta and more like his town meta ; I believe he'd leave some of his specific town tells out of this and he'd get greedy, copying it tell for tell is kind of a gambit, I think, and perhaps a bit too much even for LC. Could be wrong, that's why he's in weak villa.

PoE - not scum reads, just people that didn't make it in the villa / weak villa pile

==================

that's prettay much it

i agree with like all your explanations for your town reads and yet don’t really have faith that the poe you come up with contains every scum. like im pretty sure arete/vul is v/v. and then the three left are wilgy/dunya/ash. so that would have to be the team, but i feel like it’s not. but whatever, probably just kill wilgy and go from there

[Hally]

Wilgy's catchup I believe was pretty similar to that time in Pyre and I'm impressed you went for Triple Haven over him. The mindset is still pretty much the same, doesn't care about why top wagons are top wagons, he looked frozen while conversation was going and he'd reply to useless poasts / joke poasts until he realised he's not in danger anymore and then left.

dunya's way of reading the game makes it hard for me to realise whether she's a villager or not, her poasts were better live but skimming her ISO it doesn't feel as townie anymore. I can't tell how she's reading the thread or what info she's making reads based on which makes it hard for me to villa read her. Also doesn't really seem to stick to any read or explore it further which makes me feel like the reads are fake. Tons of posts that I didn't like ("I made 112 squirm, taking credit for that" and others which don't look pretty genuine and prettay performative)

Ash already talked about.

Vulgard appeared like he didn't care for the second part of the day which is why I took him off town leans. A wolf in his position would be very much pleased with the game state and it didn't look like scum were in much danger. Why attend second part of the day when towns are being wagonned and you are in no danger.

Arete...I mean, I can ~see her being town, but I don't believe she's passed any reasonable bar for villagery-ness. Her reads are basically poking at Vulgard with a ten foot pole (that takes one page of her ISO) and the TSP scum read that turned into a town read by the end based on one post.

gonna check wilgy’s iso in pyre after i catch up. i was under the impression he doesn’t slank as scum but from your description that sounds... inaccurate

[Epignosis]

and then the three left are wilgy/dunya/ash. so that would have to be the team, but i feel like it’s not. but whatever, probably just kill wilgy and go from there

What prompts you to feel it is not?

[Hally]

@tutuu If I'm in a final 3 with Arete and anyone else, I snapvote the person who isn't Arete and say GG.

@Hally I had a wacky dream last night. For some reason, we were playing Among Us and I was Impostor with you. And we swept the game. And I was very happy about it.
It makes me hope you're town.

I don't think Hally's EoD was very good, though, but maybe it's because I'm biased against TSP. It felt like Hally was trying to make sure that mafia was not getting killed. I really hate the push on TripleHaven, and TH's flip did not surprise me whatsoever.

Disclaimer: EoD was in the middle of the night for me, so I couldn't attend. Please don't take me to LyLo, or I'm going to cry, because I won't have as much time to make a decision as the other players there.

Catching up took me a while, and I have classes today all day long, so don't expect me to post much. I'm updated regarding the current events, though.

I didn't really like 112's EoD, although if TSP is town, she looks better for defending him when she didn't have to.

TSP's post everybody mentioned is indeed towny, but I don't think it's clearing. It makes me want to go elsewhere tomorrow, though.

I think Michelle vs Poison is TvT.

I am running out of scumreads.

Is there a way to check vote history on this site? I'd like to see how exactly the wagons moved.

i mean, i get why you wouldn’t like my EoD if tony is scum but i don’t feel it so trip seemed like a better kill. tbh when i voted trip i didn’t even expect her to go over because i think i was like the second or third vote on her and tony had like six. i more just voted her because i didn’t want to vote tony

[Vulgard]

Is it normal on this site to just kill the lowest posters first before considering anything else?
I'm not being slanky, I'm just asking if that's the meta, because I seem to be the only person who's like "killing lowposters is a waste of time and they are probably town anyway."

[Vulgard]

I meant snarky, not slanky.
I'm tired.

[Hally]

Is it bad that I suspect Hally because they were the equivalent of mafia in the dream I had, even though we were on the same team in that dream?
This is stupid, I should stop. The in-game reason is because of their EoD, since I found it suspicious how they were gunning for TripleHaven, the slanker with 2 posts who understandably flipped VT.

i really would not classify my vote on trip as “gunning” and idk how anyone could come away with that interpretation. nook was gunning for her. i just voted her because i didn’t feel good about any other vote

[Long Con]

Is it normal on this site to just kill the lowest posters first before considering anything else?
I'm not being slanky, I'm just asking if that's the meta, because I seem to be the only person who's like "killing lowposters is a waste of time and they are probably town anyway."

I also share that opinion, at least this early in the game. It is not normal to kill the lowest posters first; normally Day 1 ends with the chop of someone who has earned actual suspicion.

[Hally]

I don't know about you guys, but I think Michelle has been getting progressively townier. The take just above this post is something I really like. I don't think mafia would consider "who voted only on the poll is more suspicious, because showing your votes in the thread is a towny activity."

actually i’ve seen michelle make weird reads like that as scum but i agree she’s been trending up

[Vulgard]

Is it bad that I suspect Hally because they were the equivalent of mafia in the dream I had, even though we were on the same team in that dream?
This is stupid, I should stop. The in-game reason is because of their EoD, since I found it suspicious how they were gunning for TripleHaven, the slanker with 2 posts who understandably flipped VT.

i really would not classify my vote on trip as “gunning” and idk how anyone could come away with that interpretation. nook was gunning for her. i just voted her because i didn’t feel good about any other vote

What about your comments later that were like "murder the lurkers?" I know that's not exactly what you said, but I remember you expressing a sentiment like that.

[Michelle]

I have to sleep, good night everyone

[Hally]

I need to check the TH wagon. I find it really sketchy how it appeared at EoD, was pushed by Hally without evaluating why it might be bad (at least, that is the way I think about it), then people just hopped onto it casually and it flipped. I don't think anyone had a good reason to hop onto it, and yet it went over.

why do you keep saying i pushed it? like, not that that would be bad even if i did because i don’t think killing a two poster is necessarily bad. but like, it’s blatantly untrue that i was hard pushing for trip to die. again, that was nook

[Hally]

People were like "let's kill the 2-poster" and for some reason, people were on board with that. That was really, really bad and I had higher expectations.
Which is why I'm trying to find the TH voters, but I'm coming up short.

there is no reason why killing a two poster is inherently bad

[112]

People were like "let's kill the 2-poster" and for some reason, people were on board with that. That was really, really bad and I had higher expectations.
Which is why I'm trying to find the TH voters, but I'm coming up short.

there is no reason why killing a two poster is inherently bad

+1

[Vulgard]

Gives us literally nothing if it's town, and it's probably not mafia, because mafia would post more than 2 times just to avoid getting voted off according to this type of logic. Like Wilgo did!

[Hally]

So, the public votes go tutuu->Hally->...no one? Yeeted with two votes??

Didn't Tony/Wilgy have more public votes? What happened there?

votes were tony, arete, tutuu, me, nook, wilgy in some order

[Hally]

Is it bad that I suspect Hally because they were the equivalent of mafia in the dream I had, even though we were on the same team in that dream?
This is stupid, I should stop. The in-game reason is because of their EoD, since I found it suspicious how they were gunning for TripleHaven, the slanker with 2 posts who understandably flipped VT.

I mean

That was me gunning for trip and people begrudgingly agreeing FMPOV

Definitely would not classify Hally as gunning for her lol

thank you

[Hally]

Is it bad that I suspect Hally because they were the equivalent of mafia in the dream I had, even though we were on the same team in that dream?
This is stupid, I should stop. The in-game reason is because of their EoD, since I found it suspicious how they were gunning for TripleHaven, the slanker with 2 posts who understandably flipped VT.

I mean

That was me gunning for trip and people begrudgingly agreeing FMPOV

Definitely would not classify Hally as gunning for her lol

I suppose so. You didn't even publicly vote there, though. Were you voting TH at EoD?
Hally definitely added significant traction to the TH wagon.

i truly did not. you werent there and didn’t see how my posts itt lined up with the votes coming in on trip. i never seriously advocated for trip to be killed and was actually surprised it happened. the only one who could be reasonably characterized as pushing for trip was nanook

like, again i don’t really think my vote there was inherently problematic at all but if you’re going to suspect me for it, at least characterize things accurately

[Vulgard]

Meh, I've dropped that line of reasoning since.
Keep in mind I didn't know two things:

- how your vote placement fell into things (because I didn't have the end of day votecount at the time);
- whether your comments about the lurker were before or after end of day. It's not really clear when the day ends here.

I won't bother to suspect you for the vote, and we're probably TvTing here, but I think my general suspicion on you is going to last for the rest of the game. I'm not sure if your posts are written in good faith.

[tedxtr]

and then the three left are wilgy/dunya/ash. so that would have to be the team, but i feel like it’s not. but whatever, probably just kill wilgy and go from there

What prompts you to feel it is not?

[Hally]

PoE

Wilgy / dunya / hally / TSP

think I'm somewhere around here, will keep switching up the formula

having me in a poe of four is actually insane

[tedxtr]

i wonder who's gonna die tonight btw

this game's a very complex puzzle

[Vulgard]

If I accept Michelle vs Poison as a TvT, here is where I stand.

Town:

Arete- Town. Soulread says so. Never kill this. The only nontown thing I could imagine them being is exactly the 3p, based on their low level of investment. You can keep that in mind if you want to.

Ash Lael - Very town in his pushes and his commentary about the day 1 wagons we had. I think his towniness really began to shine through especially as the day was heading to a close. I liked the push on NANOOK as well, it felt like he really believed in the read as opposed to fabricating it and being aggressive instead of genuine.

Hally - Most likely town and I'm just being paranoid / not liking some of their interactions. 400+ posts on day 1 is no joke. That said, if they don't die within the next two cycles, re-evaluate this.

Long Con - I think he is playing the game in a genuine way which indicates a lack of TMI. He could be mafia, I suppose. My read here is comparatively weaker when I put him next to the other people on this list. Which is why you should probably remove him from it later down the line, if he does not become townier than he already is.

Michelle - I think she has been steadily improving, and her argument with Poison comes across as a TvT argument to me, plain and simple.

NANOOK - Similar situation to Hally. Pretty much the same thing applies here as well.

Poison - Arguably the most obvious town in the game, for me anyway. Explained numerous times earlier.

tutuu - I don't think that someone who rands mafia for the first time in a very long time manages to fool this entire playerlist so consistently. I think it would really show that she's rusty. I think she's very comfortable in the thread and free-flowy. Which means she is just town.

I'm starting to get cold feet about tedxtr, which is why I'm not adding him to this list, but I still think he's town.

Everyone else is basically PoE for me and I want to kill them to varied extent.

[Vulgard]

PoE

Wilgy / dunya / hally / TSP

think I'm somewhere around here, will keep switching up the formula

having me in a poe of four is actually insane

But do you think it's mafia AI?

[Vulgard]

i wonder who's gonna die tonight btw

this game's a very complex puzzle

Remind me to ISO ted again when I can.

[tedxtr]

I'm starting to get cold feet about tedxtr, which is why I'm not adding him to this list

[Hally]

Had some bad jujus when Hally was pushing me at random times as well

she should have a better grip on me than attacking me for "not reading actives"

prettay weird push, felt like I was being "handled" in a wolfy way

i'll quote the page the whole thing was on and you can give thoughts

i never pushed you ted. when i question someone over something, its not necessarily a push of like “i think this person is scum,” it’s “i saw something that could be concerning or i dont agree with/understand, let me question them to see if i can unpack this/understand them/see if my concern is warranted.” i will even question town reads the same way if i dont get something or want to understand them better. im always evaluating every single read i have all the time and that includes asking questions. it’s maybe fair to say i had some vague suspicion of you in that moment because our reads didn’t line up but i wouldn’t classify it as a push. when i actually am pushing someone, it looks way different

[Vulgard]

I'm starting to get cold feet about tedxtr, which is why I'm not adding him to this list

I'm using emojis because I think you're being scummy in the moment. Your responses right now feel very backhanded.

[Vulgard]

Which stands in stark contrast to how I felt about Michelle's responses "in the moment."

[tedxtr]

Had some bad jujus when Hally was pushing me at random times as well

she should have a better grip on me than attacking me for "not reading actives"

prettay weird push, felt like I was being "handled" in a wolfy way

i'll quote the page the whole thing was on and you can give thoughts

i never pushed you ted. when i question someone over something, its not necessarily a push of like “i think this person is scum,” it’s “i saw something that could be concerning or i dont agree with/understand, let me question them to see if i can unpack this/understand them/see if my concern is warranted.” i will even question town reads the same way if i dont get something or want to understand them better. im always evaluating every single read i have all the time and that includes asking questions. it’s maybe fair to say i had some vague suspicion of you in that moment because our reads didn’t line up but i wouldn’t classify it as a push. when i actually am pushing someone, it looks way different

point is that I didn't feel like you were being genuine in your questioning and you weren't actually concerned for us "not mindmelding"

agree or disagree but I don't believe you should have that read, even if you're a villager

it's okay though, i'm ~probably not gunning for you, like I said. It's mostly trying to find a solid PoE that I feel good about.

[Hally]

starting from bottom of page 31 with "my and ted's views of the game are different and I don't know how to feel about it" and every question after that until I stopped the conversation felt like she wasn't trying to sort me and just handle me in a way

also thought the "me and ted have different views of the game so that must mean something for his alignment" is a weird thing to think about and not a genuine thought that she'd have

we don't have any extensive history where we mindmelded or powertowned or anything so it felt faked and not a villagery approach to me in particular, think she wanted to have the tunnel just to fake attempting to read me because she didn't have me as any lean whatsoever by then

me and Hally have 1 finished game together, one where she died N2 and I sucked and we didn't even interact and one where I was scum and she was town.

i don’t know how you’re saying that me being concerned that a very good player who i have difficulty reading has very different reads than me and wanting to question them over it wouldnt be genuine coming from town!me. you really don’t know me at all if you actually believe that. like genuinely, what are you basing that on? you just said we don’t have extensive experience with each other in normal games. as town im all about working with people and trying to bridge gaps and create a good consensus and understand where people are coming from. so when i see a good player who i know has good reads have different reads than me, yes that does concern me. not necessarily in a “this person is scum way” but absolutely in a “i need to ask this person about their reads to see how we can reconcile this difference.” thats my town play by the book. you characterizing it as a tunnel or even a push is really baffling to me. an interaction which spans like 15 minutes is not a tunnel. like what

[Hally]

Привет дураки

hey epi! thought you were retired from playing so good to see you

[Arete]

I particularly remember Hally supporting this, which is why I'm singling them out, but they weren't the only one on the wagon.
I could re-read EoD, but I don't actually have a way to check who was REALLY voting TH at EoD, do I?

raises hand

I switched to TH (and announced it in thread, although maybe not with the right words) because people who've played with TSP kept telling me that was just how TSP plays as town

[Hally]

At this point I'm under the impression that Poison vs Michelle is just TvT and it's eating the thread alive.
Hi, Epignosis.

yea i agree. if there is mafia there its michelle but atm i don’t really feel that

[tedxtr]

that makes sense, I knew that you'd take that line of inquiry exclusively as villa that respects my villa game but judging by our games that we played, I was kind of lacking so I was wondering why you'd respect my town game here

[Vulgard]

I particularly remember Hally supporting this, which is why I'm singling them out, but they weren't the only one on the wagon.
I could re-read EoD, but I don't actually have a way to check who was REALLY voting TH at EoD, do I?

raises hand

I switched to TH (and announced it in thread, although maybe not with the right words) because people who've played with TSP kept telling me that was just how TSP plays as town

Counterpoint to people who've played with TSP.
I watched TSP play in champs and I don't think this is how he plays as town.
Maybe I'm just silly.

[tedxtr]

that's why i felt like it was a bad avenue that villager!you doesn't really walk on

[Hally]

Reading the poll right now. The TH wagon is very sketchy to me, meanwhile I townread every single TSP voter.
Hmm.

how is it sketchy? the th wagon is me/nook/tutuu/arete, who should all be town, plus tony and wilgy who are more uncertain. wilgy especially

but like, idk i feel like you’re making a bit of a big deal out of trip being eliminated? does fol just never kill low posters? like why is this so objectionable on D1? im just confused

[Vulgard]

Reading the poll right now. The TH wagon is very sketchy to me, meanwhile I townread every single TSP voter.
Hmm.

how is it sketchy? the th wagon is me/nook/tutuu/arete, who should all be town, plus tony and wilgy who are more uncertain. wilgy especially

but like, idk i feel like you’re making a bit of a big deal out of trip being eliminated? does fol just never kill low posters? like why is this so objectionable on D1? im just confused

I've just described why I think it's bad.

- Gives you nothing if it's town.
- It's also almost never mafia, because mafia won't just 2-post on day 1 specifically to avoid being misyeeted for this exact reason, even if they don't really want to play the game. People who 0-post as mafia are very specific players for whom it's sort of a meta tell, from my experience.
- Given these two, it gives you nothing 99% of the time and you're probably removing a town slot from the game.

Bad.

[Arete]

I particularly remember Hally supporting this, which is why I'm singling them out, but they weren't the only one on the wagon.
I could re-read EoD, but I don't actually have a way to check who was REALLY voting TH at EoD, do I?

raises hand

I switched to TH (and announced it in thread, although maybe not with the right words) because people who've played with TSP kept telling me that was just how TSP plays as town

(also the vote was tied 5/5 and tie = noelim)

[Vulgard]

"avoid being misyeeted"
Yeeted.
I shouldn't be answering questions while exhausted.

[Vulgard]

Reading the poll right now. The TH wagon is very sketchy to me, meanwhile I townread every single TSP voter.
Hmm.

how is it sketchy? the th wagon is me/nook/tutuu/arete, who should all be town, plus tony and wilgy who are more uncertain. wilgy especially

but like, idk i feel like you’re making a bit of a big deal out of trip being eliminated? does fol just never kill low posters? like why is this so objectionable on D1? im just confused

Tony and wilgy I think have potential to be mafia, and I have tinfoil/paranoia on you/nanook. I don't see a problem with what I said there based on the opinions and thoughts that I've presented so far.