Escape From Russia [GAME OVER]

[Hally]

I guess you can make anything fit a narrative if you want to.

this fits a scummy narrative

[Ash Lael]

If I'm the wolf on the Tony vote, what was the deal with the timing and nature of my vote? Just chalk it up to general Long Con zaniness?

Wait until the last second to see which way it's going.

He's not going over? Jump on to distance.

He might go over? Jump on TH and yell "No ties!"

Or just do nothing and leave my vote on someone else , and just miss it.

Sure, you could have. But you didn't, and you didn't have to.

[TonyStarkPrime]

maybe gonna need to make a disassociation chart to work my way through this one

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

i don’t think scum reading tony for meming is valid. he memes a lot as town

I'm not scumreading him for meming. I'm questioning the way he entered the game (WAY TOO MANY MEMES, even for him, and yes, I compared with his town games on MU), and the quality of his solving.

Would be more useful to compare to his syndicate games

Since, you know, that’s where we’re playing

[Ash Lael]

Actually that vote count makes me think LC pretty much has to be a wolf. Regardless of Tony's alignment.

The TH wagon has Nanook and Hally, who are very likely just town. Dead town tutuu. And then Arete, Wilgy, and Tony.

Tony disaligns with both Arete and Wilgy. So if there's two wolves on the wagon it's exactly Arete/wilgy.

If there's not two wolves on the wagon, then either 2/3 of the wolves had to be offwagon, which seems unlikely - Michelle was hard on dunya so there's probably a disassociation there, and the other is 112 who is probably just town - or there had to be a wolf on the tony wagon. And LC is the only plausible option I can see.

So to sum up there are three possible worlds I can see.

In one, Arete has pulled off the mother of all pockets on Vulgard and switched from the high value town Tony lynch to killing a 2 poster late in the day for no discernible reason.

In one, LC is a wolf.

In one, our PoE is wrong and we have a deepwolf.

Someone poke holes in my logic.

[Long Con]

Your PoE is wrong and we have a deepwolf.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

There is a discernible reason/benefit to scum in killing Trip over TSP and if TSP is town we’re seeing it today

It isn’t that hard to discern tbh


However arete specifically this does not apply to given her very close after clearing of TSP

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

There is a discernible reason/benefit to scum in killing Trip over TSP and if TSP is town we’re seeing it today

It isn’t that hard to discern tbh


However arete specifically this does not apply to given her very close after clearing of TSP

*their

[Arete]

if im mafia at EoD1 i subtly angle towards killing tony without ever fully supporting it so that i get him killed but when he flips town the people who push him look bad not me. i don’t push back on his wagon

doesn't this rely on the assumption that Tony is town

[Arete]

i almost feel like tony pushing me here is like a perspective slip because if he knows himself to be town i should be like lock town to him for pushing back on his wagon D1 when i easily could have let him die. him focusing on how i was apparently trying to steer away from wilgy seems extremely weird when i think it should be obvious particularly to him that what i was actually doing was trying to steer away from him, which i feel like should be obvious because he was the main wagon up until trip overtook him

i mean, its not actually a perspective slip but like idk. it feels weird

and a couple posts later you shade him as well

lowkey think that (the post I quoted just before I quoted this one) could be TMI

[Hally]

if im mafia at EoD1 i subtly angle towards killing tony without ever fully supporting it so that i get him killed but when he flips town the people who push him look bad not me. i don’t push back on his wagon

doesn't this rely on the assumption that Tony is town

well yes, i was addressing what tony said and assuming that in a world where im mafia hes town

[Hally]

i almost feel like tony pushing me here is like a perspective slip because if he knows himself to be town i should be like lock town to him for pushing back on his wagon D1 when i easily could have let him die. him focusing on how i was apparently trying to steer away from wilgy seems extremely weird when i think it should be obvious particularly to him that what i was actually doing was trying to steer away from him, which i feel like should be obvious because he was the main wagon up until trip overtook him

i mean, its not actually a perspective slip but like idk. it feels weird

and a couple posts later you shade him as well

lowkey think that (the post I quoted just before I quoted this one) could be TMI

no. tony was saying i was mafia steering away from wilgy who is also mafia. i was trying to explain that if town is town and im mafia, regardless of who my team is i try to subtly get tony killed at EoD not steer away from him

[Hally]

tony is town*

[Hally]

its pretty clearly not tmi in context

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Yeh Hally wouldn’t be assuming tony is mafia while responding to a thing from Tony.

[Long Con]

Nanook.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Nanook.

Sup

[Long Con]

I have some issues and I don't want to upset you. I think they're reasonable.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I don’t have a problem with reasonable issues

I take offense to “the way nanook plays is lazy and low effort”

Say whatever you want

[Long Con]

Well, that's a good start. I never said you were lazy, BUT you called yourself lazy several times in the game earlier.

You declared yourself as having a low-effort, slanky game, more than once I think.

I don't understand why you got upset earlier. If I said going for the low-poster chop is low-effort, why would you take offense - actually declaring that it was an insult - when it's how you yourself stated you would be playing?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I can make self deprecating jokes about my play, actually sincerely believing that my play is low effort, in this game specifically, is fairly insulting

Similar to, say, Hally saying “I’m bad at mafia maybe my reads aren’t good,” that’s a self deprecating statement, whereas if ash says “Hally might be mafia cause she’s bad at the game so it’s easy to replicate her town play” that would be pretty rude

[Arete]

I guess his read on them is a bit odd. Like he says they're not their normal town self, not their normal scum self, maybe 3p... but definitely not mafia? I'm not quite sure how that computes.

i do want to ask @Vulgard about this. vul, you said you’re absolutely certain arete isn’t mafia/doesn’t have tmi but at the same time they’re not like their town self. where does your confidence that arete absolutely isn’t mafia stem from?

Talking about vul, didn't he kinda drop a little activity wise as well as content wise?

@Arete what do you think of vul's current state in the game?

activity isn't super relevant to my read on his alignment, he can highpost as scum, he can lowpost as town

the "needle" hasn't really moved for me there since the last time I commented on him

[Hally]

I can make self deprecating jokes about my play, actually sincerely believing that my play is low effort, in this game specifically, is fairly insulting

Similar to, say, Hally saying “I’m bad at mafia maybe my reads aren’t good,” that’s a self deprecating statement, whereas if ash says “Hally might be mafia cause she’s bad at the game so it’s easy to replicate her town play” that would be pretty rude

rude but accurate wowee

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Like idk how you look at this game and go “yes, nanook is slanking and low effort here” unless those jokes are literally the only thing you’ve read

[Hally]

yea nook is clearly putting in a lot of effort here

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I can make self deprecating jokes about my play, actually sincerely believing that my play is low effort, in this game specifically, is fairly insulting

Similar to, say, Hally saying “I’m bad at mafia maybe my reads aren’t good,” that’s a self deprecating statement, whereas if ash says “Hally might be mafia cause she’s bad at the game so it’s easy to replicate her town play” that would be pretty rude

rude but accurate wowee

I don’t think you’re bad at mafia! You just share my self occasionally deprecating sense of humor so I used you as a third party example

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

And even besides that, like...you’ve played with me a fair bit now, you’ve seen slanky nanook and high posting nanook (largely unconnected to amount of effort I’m putting into the game btw, but that’s a different subject)...idk how you look at my play and go “yes that’s easy to fake as scum”

[Long Con]

Like idk how you look at this game and go “yes, nanook is slanking and low effort here” unless those jokes are literally the only thing you’ve read

I went through the first half of your ISO, and I don't think you qualified a single read with any reasoning to back it up.

How much effort would you say you applied when you started to push for Triple's chop? Show me the effort, maybe?

[Hally]

I can make self deprecating jokes about my play, actually sincerely believing that my play is low effort, in this game specifically, is fairly insulting

Similar to, say, Hally saying “I’m bad at mafia maybe my reads aren’t good,” that’s a self deprecating statement, whereas if ash says “Hally might be mafia cause she’s bad at the game so it’s easy to replicate her town play” that would be pretty rude

rude but accurate wowee

I don’t think you’re bad at mafia! You just share my self occasionally deprecating sense of humor so I used you as a third party example

lol ik

[Long Con]

And even besides that, like...you’ve played with me a fair bit now, you’ve seen slanky nanook and high posting nanook (largely unconnected to amount of effort I’m putting into the game btw, but that’s a different subject)...idk how you look at my play and go “yes that’s easy to fake as scum”

I didn't say there was anything easy to fake as scum in your play. I have seen you put effort in, and it's not like this game at all.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

So you measure effort in exactly one way and nothing else, cool.

I’m done with this conversation someone else tell him he’s being dumb please

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

And even besides that, like...you’ve played with me a fair bit now, you’ve seen slanky nanook and high posting nanook (largely unconnected to amount of effort I’m putting into the game btw, but that’s a different subject)...idk how you look at my play and go “yes that’s easy to fake as scum”

I didn't say there was anything easy to fake as scum in your play. I have seen you put effort in, and it's not like this game at all.

I very much doubt this is a sincere thought

[Hally]

i don’t think this conversation is productive at all

[Arete]

Tony and Michelle most obvious town 2020.

why is Tony obvious town

checking in briefly, will probably have to dip again

the number of people familiar with TSP's meta saying things like 'WHY ARE YOU KILLING HIM HE'S ALWAYS LIKE THIS' is making me kind of nervous

also I obviously don't want a rand

but killing a 2-poster seems kind of mrrr

but I kind of think I might do it anyway

wowee

I moved my vote

I'm killing your two-poster for you Nanook

how does this make you feel

Ok, so here's the deal

this is a very bad EoD especially if wilgy is wolf (or maybe TSP /shrug)

no way are you worried about TSP flipping town here ; you were questioning people why they had him villa an hour ago

you also said you weren't gonna be here for EoD

I find it very unlikely a villager would come back to move here. They had no reads on anybody saying TSP was town, I don't know how them voting a 2 poster over TSP makes sense in any world. I don't know the wagonomics, but immediately seeing this I thought it was a defence of either Wilgy who got bombed with votes and TSP wagon left the station and TH was the fighting wagon.

The comment to Nanook may give it away ; I read it as some type of self-awareness trying to be brushed off by making forced thoughts / jokes. Like what's that post doing? What's it's purpose?

okay I know this is not remotely the point but ... I was not in fact there for EoD ... like, the reason I couldn't be there is that I had a specific commitment during the scheduled EoD time but it hadn't started yet when I popped back in

your Wilgy point is also nonsensical given that Wilgy wasn't a wagon, like, at all, I'm pretty sure? inconveniently I can't pull a retro VC but at the very least he had 0 votes at EoD

and I'm sort of curious why you apparently didn't even bother to check the EoD vote tally

[Long Con]

Classic. Ok, you guys play your game and I'll shut up.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

There’s the victim card, was wondering how long it would take

[Long Con]

There’s the victim card, was wondering how long it would take

I was hoping for an AtE card in my hand, but I think you got them all in yours.

[Arete]

Like why would Arete be nervous about a wolf read flipping town? Makes no sense, feels performative.

If you don't get the reasoning, then ask for it. TSP's defenders didn't even give a solid reason as to why he's town, they just said "lol this isn't TSP's scum game lol"

that's why I felt like her coming back at EoD was to defend either wilgy who got wagonned like crap or potentially TSP. I don't know the order of events.

I mean

if I have reasons for scumreading someone

and a bunch of other people who know them is like 'no, those reasons that you have are just how he plays as town, meta-wise he's town'

then ... yes, that's something I'm going to care about and take into account

I fail to see what's confusing about that

[Long Con]

Like really, taking "I have disagreed with most of Nanook's reasoning, and found it devoid of value" and claiming I said insulted you and called you lazy and low-effort... that's a huge emotional jump. Whatever.

[Hally]

guys, just drop this exchange please

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

“Nanook’s reasoning is devoid of value”

Yeah that’s not an insult *at all*

[Long Con]

No prob. I tried to reach an understanding, you're not interested. Message received. We're done here.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

You also left out

This may be a usual thing and NAI, because of his slavish devotion to PoE, but I think that very devotion can easily used to hide behind as scum. "I don't need to hunt - I'm just going PoE! Who's the next low hanging fruit on the menu?"

This part of the quote

How is this not saying my play is low effort and/or lazy? How is this not insulting?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

No prob. I tried to reach an understanding, you're not interested. Message received. We're done here.

No you fucking didn’t there’s no way that was in any way a good faith effort to reach an understanding at all

[Long Con]

Uh, because it's a Mafia game and not a schoolyard?

Or because you are devoted to PoE and chopped low hanging fruit because of it? It's not a mean rumour I'm trying to spread.

[Long Con]

No prob. I tried to reach an understanding, you're not interested. Message received. We're done here.

No you fucking didn’t there’s no way that was in any way a good faith effort to reach an understanding at all

Maybe another time then.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’ve never seen LC be this much of a prick or this disingenuous-seeming and I no longer think I can read it

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

“LC has a slavish devotion to misreading town, and this is easy to hide behind as scum.”

How do you not see that this is an insulting thing to say to/about someone, like it’s a very rude and insulting thing to say about how someone plays

[Hally]

you’re probably both town

[Long Con]

Because it's a Mafia game, and analyzing behaviour is supposed to be part of it?