Grasslands [Game Thread]

[Carotenoid]

omz plz don't, have a thought for light theme users

[tutuu]

omz plz don't, have a thought for light theme users

omg carotte.....

fine.....

if i was in a more sassy mood i would say "yes lets do a favor and yeet ur ass asap"

but hally put me in a cuddly mood .... so fine i wont blind u .... i lov u sweetie

[Carotenoid]

omz plz don't, have a thought for light theme users

omg carotte.....

fine.....

if i was in a more sassy mood i would say "yes lets do a favor and yeet ur ass asap"

but hally put me in a cuddly mood .... so fine i wont blind u .... i lov u sweetie

Lol thank you
fwiw I used to always write in dark green when I started playing forum mafia. It did not help me be more townread and it was quite annoying after a while

[Sloonei]

Phantom vote on LC.

[Carotenoid]

Phantom vote on LC.

Why LC?

[Long Con]

Where can I see Phantom vote totals?

[Sloonei]

Phantom vote on LC.

Why LC?

He’s actively not trying and I want him to explain his read on me.

[MartinGG99]

Alright, I'm here. Going to be digesting the 400 or so posts that have been made while I was gone (I've been rather busy past 20-ish hours dealing with my college classes) but I should have about 4 hours to spend here now. As well as be here for a few hours prior to EoD.

Feel free to @ and AMA, though it may take a few minutes to see the notification since I don't keep an eagle eye on the bell icon.

[Long Con]

Phantom vote on LC.

Why LC?

He’s actively not trying and I want him to explain his read on me.

I haven't caught you acting bad yet. So far, so good.

[tutuu]

Where can I see Phantom vote totals?

town votes:
tutuu - 2 - alison, tutuu
spf - 2 - hally, nutella

scum votes:
carotte - 3 - hally, JJJ, tutuu
sloonei - 2 - alison, nutella
long con - 1 - sloonei

[Thunal33]

My PoE is LC, Jay, and Sloonei with a low confidence level in that PoE. I know I've been asked before when I had a PoE the same size as the actual mafia team whether I think I've solved the game, and I definitely do not believe I've solved the game here.
Martin and Carotte are sort of in my outer PoE.
My strongest TRs are nutella, Hally, and tutuu.

Phantom votes:

Town: nutella
Scum: Sloonei

[Carotenoid]

My PoE is LC, Jay, and Sloonei with a low confidence level in that PoE. I know I've been asked before when I had a PoE the same size as the actual mafia team whether I think I've solved the game, and I definitely do not believe I've solved the game here.
Martin and Carotte are sort of in my outer PoE.
My strongest TRs are nutella, Hally, and tutuu.

Phantom votes:

Town: nutella
Scum: Sloonei

Earlier you said that you also don't really get all the scumreads on Sloonei for his nutella read. What made you change your mind to vote him now?

[Thunal33]

My PoE is LC, Jay, and Sloonei with a low confidence level in that PoE. I know I've been asked before when I had a PoE the same size as the actual mafia team whether I think I've solved the game, and I definitely do not believe I've solved the game here.
Martin and Carotte are sort of in my outer PoE.
My strongest TRs are nutella, Hally, and tutuu.

Phantom votes:

Town: nutella
Scum: Sloonei

Earlier you said that you also don't really get all the scumreads on Sloonei for his nutella read. What made you change your mind to vote him now?

His recent posts look scummy, his earlier ones look null. I dislike that he's making a case on me for thinking Carotte was a different player than you, I feel like that's a really easy thing for scum to grab onto. I also dislike that most of his posts have been responding to suspicion rather than solving. It feels a bit like self-pres minded scum. However I understand JJJ's point, I won't push Sloonei hard until he's had more of a chance to show his alignment.

[Carotenoid]

My PoE is LC, Jay, and Sloonei with a low confidence level in that PoE. I know I've been asked before when I had a PoE the same size as the actual mafia team whether I think I've solved the game, and I definitely do not believe I've solved the game here.
Martin and Carotte are sort of in my outer PoE.
My strongest TRs are nutella, Hally, and tutuu.

Phantom votes:

Town: nutella
Scum: Sloonei

Earlier you said that you also don't really get all the scumreads on Sloonei for his nutella read. What made you change your mind to vote him now?

His recent posts look scummy, his earlier ones look null. I dislike that he's making a case on me for thinking Carotte was a different player than you, I feel like that's a really easy thing for scum to grab onto. I also dislike that most of his posts have been responding to suspicion rather than solving. It feels a bit like self-pres minded scum. However I understand JJJ's point, I won't push Sloonei hard until he's had more of a chance to show his alignment.

Hmn okay, I can see what you mean regarding the case he made about you. I don't really see how not pushing him hard and voting him is compatible though. How did you feel about his vote and push on LC?

[MartinGG99]

Responses to page 3.

Spoiler: show

Martin has already pocketed me.

This is rather a surprising statement. Why is it that someone who has about ~6 games of experience be the first one to give you a strong towny indication?

Martin has already pocketed me.

tutuu is physically incapable of randing scum as usual.

Sloonei is scum for making stuff up.

why do u tr tutuu?

There's the usual energy coming from her that she displays when she's town. She could be mimicking it as scum but I think it's not easy to forge and will fall apart eventually if she's faking it. I felt kinda good about #51, #53, #76, #93. Individually taken they're just mildly townie, but all four of them combined + pretty decent energy means that I'm happy to give her an early game townread.

I think this is good evaluation of them, and wouldn't mind tr'ing them as well. I can't really say or decide much about them because I'm not experienced with high-energy players, and so when I see a player like tutuu I sort of just null them for the moment until the game progresses.

nutella's response reminds me of the type of thing i will say when people misunderstand my (often deliberately) confusing words early in games.

nutella-or-sloonei says X.
Player asks nutella-or-sloonei about Y.
nutella-or-sloonei stresses Not Y, Only X.

I like it. It's a thing I do when I'm town. I see nutella do it and think town.

at tutuu

I would also note that the "misunderstanding" is irrelevant: a hypothetical mafioso might be less sure of their position right there. Even if tutuu is misunderstanding their initial point, they might see the question and think they need to come up with an answer for it. Instead nutella just stuck to the initial point and didn't budge.

i actually did a double take at these posts. i’m like.... so confused by this read. like do you think scum!nut is like so bad that she would see tutuu assume a read she hadn’t actually given and go “gee wiz, ig i have to tr sloonei now since tutuu assumed i did.” like, is scum!nut incapable of correcting wrong assumptions? why is this towny? i really don’t get it

At this point the conversation and topic has begun to become rather confusing to me. If this is some "weird" way of marking Sloonei as scum then I think it just might be natural awkwardness from a complex topic (of which may be NAI). I don't know about anybody else, but I have made awkward arguments or conversations in the past as either alignment.

ok full disclosure: i was afraid of this going into the game. like when i saw i randed town i was like “but spf and sloonei are gonna be so paranoid of me now if they’re town and i might not be able to work with them as well.” like particularly with you, im scared that even if we agree on stuff you’ll be so nervous that im just pocketing you that you won’t wanna just accept that im town, which is gonna suck for both of us. idk if that will actually happen but yea, i am cognizant of this

ok fine you can be town


(for now)

yea, im like 99% sure nut is a villager. she’s checked like every box already lol

Is that, in part, because you already know them?

I'm not entirely sold on them being town, but that may be due to my inexperience of not knowing everything that can constitute as "towny".

[staypositivefriend]

Spoiler alert, it felt more like reading for a book report lol. Having difficulty internalizing much.

I'm kind of nervous lolol

i ...sort of townread these opening posts from novase? i feel like scum is always so hyper-focused on giving off the impression that theyre solving and that theyre invested in the game, and novase is kind of running counter to that in these posts by outright admitting that they didn't get much from reading the thread and that they mostly just feel nervous. it's the type of honesty/transparency that scum don't usually exhibit that early into the game

You've actually been a on roller coaster while I was reading the thread. Loved your entrance, didn't like the push on Sloonei and you've been trending up this last page.

where would you say you landed on tutuu in light of the last few pages?

Tfw you hate being scumread as town but still feel slighted when you get TR early lol

lol, i kinda like this too

there were a few things i didn’t like

1) his push on alison for being confident in her reads when she’s always confident in her reads as town felt kinda fake

2) i didn’t like him jumping in to give sloonei a lifeline. i think town!jay would be more likely to wait for sloonei to address the suspicion so as not to poison the well, but here jay went to rescue sloonei immediately even though he doesn’t tr sloonei yet

3) didn’t like that he tr me so confidently early on, but meh

4) didn’t like that he said he had no thoughts on martin and when he went back to read he didn’t really give much of a stance

idk as i write these out now, particularly the last two, i do acknowledge i might be nitpicking somewhat and i probably overstated my confidence in the read in that moment but these small things added up for me as “jay is scum.” but it’s really too early to say that with any confidence

fwiw the point about sloonei is actually the same concern i have about jagged right now. i remember that in the final champs game when sloonei was getting a lot of heat early on, jagged didn't speak ~for~ sloonei, but he stood back and gave sloonei the opportunity to defend himself and explain his mindset. in this game i felt like jagged went out of his way to defend/justify sloonei's mindset, and it's just a little weird to me that he felt the need to do that without giving sloonei the opportunity to speak for himself first

i have a different take about his push on alison, though. i was getting these weird feelings in my guts when i read alison's posts that made me feel like ~something~ was off about her tone or her game but i couldn't really figure out a way to articulate it. jagged coming in and going like: "i don't trust alison" at the exact same time i was having those gut feelings reassured me a little bit that i wasn't going crazy. i know that jagged could do that as scum, but i dont find it actively suspicious

i have the game poe’d down to jay/sloonei/lc/carrote. not even kidding. like i tr everyone else. and rn im looking at that and going “this cannot possibly be right” so maybe one of my tr’s is wrong but this is where i’m at

could you sell me on nanook being town? i don't know how to read him, especially this game

I don't have much of a "town read" on nutella or Alison, but I'm also not sure I'd call them appropriate Day 1 eliminations. nutella still profiles in a pro-town way with her general energy level, and my suspicions of Alison are not highly developed or confident matters. If I move on from them at least temporarily, that leaves me with a relatively tight POE pool. And it's noteworthy enough that Sloonei would be in it. My dude still hasn't done much.

i thought nutella was towntelling a lot early on in the game, but i also get the impression that you have a lot more experience with her than i do. what's stopping you from feeling comfortable with her being town?

[tutuu]

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] [mention]Carotenoid[/mention]

[Carotenoid]

omg hahahhahhahahhahahahaha i'm legit dying of laughter IRL

just

why

[staypositivefriend]

Spoiler: show

I've read the thread.

r/IAmA

Spoiler alert, it felt more like reading for a book report lol. Having difficulty internalizing much.

It kind of feels like playing in a new community. Haven't played with more than half the player list, that's wild.

I'm kind of nervous lolol

Ted burns 4 posts in the span of 6 minutes to say virtually nothing. Is this sort of disregard for the post cap more indicative of a town whose nervous energy compels them to post whatever comes to mind, or is it a mafioso trying to look spastic for effect?

can you give me a gth answer to the question youre asking? what does your gut tell you when you look at those posts?

Okay I would like to partner with SPF

okay, i'm in. can you help me townread you more? what's your plan for solving the game right now? do u have any concern about anyone here right now?

Sloonei's recent posts don't make me feel any better

Nova is an easy townread. I have enough townreads that I'm confident we can hit mafia in Sloonei/Carotte

do any of his recent posts explicitly bother you, or is there just an absence of sincerity? i would describe my problem with sloonei right now as the latter

Thunal is a she. And I think you're overblowing the weirdness of that, I just assumed she hadn't realized about the name and didn't particularly remember anything from Carotte hence not having a townread on her lol. It's not the type of inconsistency I'm concerned with. Do you think there's something scum indicative about it?

Sorry Thunal!

I am wary of the progression and want to highlight it. I could see it coming from scum, but it doesn't need to. I want Thunal to respond to it before I say more.

You are either in a tunnel or pretending to be. If you want me to prove that I am town, let me do my thing.

how is there so much linki in a light game?

this post gives me a weird stilted vibe but i don't really know how to explain why. i'm used to sloonei's gamesolving being very fluid and very focused on checking for internal consistency, but sloonei's desire to just ~highlight~ a minor point without particularly taking a stance on it either way rubs me the wrong way a little bit. this especially bothers me paired with the fact that sloonei asked jagged why he townread thunal just a few posts earlier - i feel like sloonei is trying to have it both ways by making the case for thunal being mafia without actually pushing on her. it feels like he doesn't wanna get his hands dirty. maybe im going crazy

i just hacked into dizzy's account and read the role pms (sorry)

tutuu - vanilla TOWN
Hally - vanilla TOWN
Long Con - vanilla TOWN
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - vanilla TOWN
Sloonei - vanilla TOWN
novaselinenever - vanilla TOWN
staypositivefriend - vanilla TOWN
nutella - vanilla TOWN
MartinGG99 - vanilla TOWN
Alison - vanilla TOWN

Carotenoid- Mafia GOON
Thunal33 - Mafia GOON
JaggedJimmyJay - Mafia GOON

So do you think we just all decided to bus?

i don't love the framing of this post but i can't put my finger on why. i might expand later

[Sloonei]

My PoE is LC, Jay, and Sloonei with a low confidence level in that PoE. I know I've been asked before when I had a PoE the same size as the actual mafia team whether I think I've solved the game, and I definitely do not believe I've solved the game here.
Martin and Carotte are sort of in my outer PoE.
My strongest TRs are nutella, Hally, and tutuu.

Phantom votes:

Town: nutella
Scum: Sloonei

Earlier you said that you also don't really get all the scumreads on Sloonei for his nutella read. What made you change your mind to vote him now?

His recent posts look scummy, his earlier ones look null. I dislike that he's making a case on me for thinking Carotte was a different player than you, I feel like that's a really easy thing for scum to grab onto. I also dislike that most of his posts have been responding to suspicion rather than solving. It feels a bit like self-pres minded scum. However I understand JJJ's point, I won't push Sloonei hard until he's had more of a chance to show his alignment.

I think it is a mistake to regard my post about you as a "case." It is not that. When I make a case on somebody, you will know it. Usually I'll say things like "Here is my case on X." That will rarely if ever happen early on Day 1.

I had a concern about you and I voiced it. That is all. You offered a read on a player who doesn't exist. I think that's noteworthy. It still is.

[Long Con]

Okay I would like to partner with SPF

okay, i'm in. can you help me townread you more? what's your plan for solving the game right now? do u have any concern about anyone here right now?

I plan to make judgment calls on peoples' posts, interactions, and reactions, and use those to guide my votes.

[MartinGG99]

Responses to page 4.

Spoiler: show

I am town and stand by my read on nutella.

how do u feel about the early pushes on you? do you think all of them are coming from a sincere place?

Idk, i’m distracted at the moment so I haven’t read them in detail. nutella tinfoiling me is on brand.

I'm not sure how I feel about this interaction. Feels like a nudge not intended to generate an AI response.

I was also a champs finalist but don’t worry making finale means very little in terms of how skilled you are

And yet, in the podcast, they were directly talking about how the JOAT^2 setup was meant, at least in part, to help people determine the skill of players. You could argue part of it to be luck, since games are often a team effort of some degree, but to dismiss the skill aspect to a large degree I would beg to differ.

If we're going to do the "Tammy/Sam" strategy I outlined in the signups thread, it may be best to have two kinds of phantom votes, one phantom vote for who we're going to give the gun to, and one vote for who we think is scummy and want to send into the Grasslands so they can be killed by the gun-wielder. I will represent these by Scum Vote: X and Town Vote: Y.

Currently, my votes are:
Scum Vote: Sloonei

and

Town Vote: Nanook

I'm not sure nanook is actually the towniest player in the game, but he has decent equity of townsiding with his gun usage (since it would be pretty suicidal to demand the gun on post 1 when you're intending to use it to go rogue by shooting a townie) regardless of his alignment, and I also think he is the kind of player that would know when is the best time to go rogue with the gun.

I will Town Vote: Tutuu

I disagree with the assessment that scum would be using the "towniest" position to go rogue with the gun or execution. Remember, scum can only night-kill whoever's not in the grasslands. If they can land a scum in that spot, then that effectively gives them free reign to kill whoever they want as well as making sure that scum wont die. Hence, I refuse to town vote Nanook just because they demanded the gun. I've seen (and even have played as) scum with risky plays. Though, admittedly, I don't know Nanook as a player.

As for a phantom scum vote, I am reserving it for later, possibly when I am done catching up here. When I last left, there was only about 110 posts in the game and I think a vote there, phantom or not, would be a bit too hasty.

Actually the gun person gets the doc save too right? I kind of want to nominate tutuu then, she has the highest combination of town equity + "being targeted N1 by mafia" equity. That's probably more important than nanook having good judgement about when to go rogue.

Town Vote: tutuu

Oh, you changed your vote. That's good. Though the reasoning is different.

Also, why would you think they would be targeted night 1? Aside from being possibly highly town read?

thought dump

martin has some pretty nuanced thoughts so far both about the setup and then later re: his read on thun. his tone is also good imo. i would be pretty impressed if he was able to deliver such nuanced thoughts in such a genuine sounding way as mafia given his limited experience. wanna see if he can keep it up but yea, pretty towny so far

thun is also pretty towny. she’s a good wolf though and can replicate her town meta pretty well. she also has a tone that’s generally kinda hard to read. but her thoughts as town have greater nuance and depth than her scum game, and i’m seeing that here so far. don’t feel like shes forcing stuff. again, not gonna lock this in because it’s still early but so far i feel good about her

nook’s “just let me decide who to kill and ill take care of business” seems like town!nook lol. not actually sure he wouldn’t be brazen enough to push for it as scum but idk, not worried about it rn

and with sloonei, the best way i can put it is like how alison did. when i read his posts about why nut was town, my immediate reaction was “he’s just making this up, this isn’t a real read.” i dont disagree with the conclusion obviously because im like 99% sure nut is a villager rn. but i am extremely concerned that sloonei had that read before i think he “should” have. it makes me think he has tmi that nut is town and that was coloring his perception of her posts so he thought she had towntold before she actually did. but like, idk if sloonei would make a mistake like that as scum? and sloonei in particular is someone i really really really want to find if he’s town because he’s a huge asset if so. but nut, tutuu, alison, spf and i all noticing that he seems off does give me more confidence in the read than i usually might have. idk my mind is definitely not made up though and i want to see what he does going forward and how he responds to the pressure

vote: spf
vote: sloonei

Can anybody help me determine if its AI when someone seems to explain their phantom kill vote, without much explanation on their phantom town vote?

Or is that NAI or am I just fussing over nothing here?

[nutella]

You offered a read on a player who doesn't exist. I think that's noteworthy. It still is.

have you heard the ballad of telemundo

[Sloonei]

You offered a read on a player who doesn't exist. I think that's noteworthy. It still is.

have you heard the ballad of telemundo

I have not.

[staypositivefriend]

Okay I would like to partner with SPF

okay, i'm in. can you help me townread you more? what's your plan for solving the game right now? do u have any concern about anyone here right now?

I plan to make judgment calls on peoples' posts, interactions, and reactions, and use those to guide my votes.

cool, who do u townread the most so far?

[nutella]

You offered a read on a player who doesn't exist. I think that's noteworthy. It still is.

have you heard the ballad of telemundo

I have not.

okay so

there was this big bastard game on MU in June hosted by Amrock

it was a very large chaotic game with over 70 players and a very very fast paced thread so it was similar to a mash in that most people didn't read everything

at some point on day 1, someone asked GiraffeSyrup for his reads on a select list of players, and on the list was an autocorrected misspelling that was meant to be the player The Lukundo but autocorrected to Telemundo

GiraffeSyrup gave a gth townread on Telemundo, having not been able to find the name in the multi-ISO dropdown and thus assuming it was a zero-poster; having just recently played G6 with Jay, Giraffe was strongly defensive of the notion that a gth call should be made and that a null read defaults to town by probability

several people scumread Giraffe for giving a townread on a player that didn't exist or even just for defaulting to a townread on a zeroposter

Giraffe was town!


(also Telemundo became the best meme from that game; other people were fooled into thinking he was a real player including Mac who attempted to submit a dayvig shot on him)

[tutuu]

rofl

[MartinGG99]

Responses to page 5.

Spoiler: show

i think jay is wolfing, and it would not shock me at all if he was w/w with sloonei. this obviously needs more exploration, but my feeling right now is jay is not town

I think if JJJ is wolf, I don't see strong evidence for being w/w with sloonei (or much of anyone else for that matter) at the moment.

As to whether he's actually a wolf or town, I don't know that yet.

God damn it this is gonna be the dumbest read ive made in a while but i want to townread hally cuz they out spf in top town and didnt elaborate at all until asked. So like this is based off of the assumption that hally if they were mafia, would be more aware that they should probably be consistent and explain their reads and stuff, and they would be cautious about explaining all their reads except the top town one (spf), so it looked to me like a town not caring about apperance in this small instance

That's what I was thinking as well (see my last post full of spoilers, towards the bottom). However, I was wondering if the level of justification or focus on the scum vote was sort of...negatively AI? I don't know. I'll just TR hally for now since I do trust the town read on you at the moment.

Sorry martin and thunal i havent been paying much attention to u cuz we re stranges and im cautious to give reads on ppl i have no experience with. I will try eventually but i will be very low confident about it

I hope you understand the same goes for me, right? Though I will do my best to determine my reads on people.

I actually am not a huge fan of how the response from both JJJ and Sloonei to the theory of a JJJ/Sloonei wolf game has been "I'm tired of people always theorizing about JJJ/Sloonei wolf teams". If you think about it, that is actually an AtE defense (albeit a more polite and subtle kind), since it doesn't actually do anything to rebut the theory that they're wolfing together.

This looks fake too.

"That is actually an AtE defense", whether true or not (I don't get it), says nothing about whether it is genuine. I don't think either of us made an effort to "rebut", because the accusation means so little at this point. I'm not mafia. I don't know about Sloonei, but we cannot be teamed. We can be sarcastic about the notion, because it is an age-old meme. I used to make fun of Epignosis back in the day for making the token "JJJ and Sloonei are teammates" accusation at least once per game thread.

This post has little hunting value unless you believe us to be actual mafia teammates. Is that what we are?

I personally think the problem is not that its AtE but rather I would believe if I were constantly tinfoiled with being possibly scum-teamed with X player in many games, I would be annoyed as well regardless of alignment (I am presuming you are annoyed of course).

The thing is, if I am understanding the conversation/posts correctly so far, that has been your primary defense as to why you aren't teamed with Sloonei; that it has been tinfoiled plenty of times.

Given the plausible NAI nature of making a statement out of annoyance regardless of alignment, I am hesitant to assign the topic and your responses to it any sort of AI value.

[Carotenoid]

I am a bit bothered by JJJ's progression on Martin, it doesn't seem like he really thought about it, despite mentioning him a few times already.

Spoiler: show

His first mentions of Martin are through the Alison read (that bugs him). A bit later he takes a closer look at Martin since he has no clear opinion:

I looked more closely at Martin. I have no "gripes". The posts emphasize strategic dialogue so far, so I couldn't provide a confident town read. I am not bothered either.

Then, when he does his 6-6 split, Martin is in the + half. (At this time, Martin is pretty much townread. No one scumread him.)

I asked myself to try to split the game at least 6-6 between town-inclined reads and not-town-inclined reads. The latter shouldn't be perceived as "suspicion" as much as "I am less confident they're town than the 6 above them". I chose the 6-6 split arbitrarily; I like to set some kind of numeral goal. I'll have to figure out if the unusual mechanics impact the standard approach to POE pool sizes.

+
tutuu
Hally
Thunal33
staypositivefriend
MartinGG99
Sloonei

Not +
Long Con
NANOOK
novaselinenever
nutella
Alison
Carotte

The names within groups are not ordered. The player I immediately find myself conflicted over is nutella. I like her energy level and engagement, and will have to reconcile that with my gripes.

Later, he puts more emphasis about his view of Martin being vague:

i was just iso'ing martin/thurnal, and i was expecting to come out of it with a scum-lean on thurnal and a townread on martin. weirdly enough, i'm kinda feeling like i'm in the exact opposite position. martin left a strong impression on me with his early townread on thurnal, but his logic doesn't read as: "this is a perspective that is DEFINITELY coming from a town mindset" in the same way that it did when it was happening in the moment. i also wasn't particulary moved by any of his other posts

on the contrary, i actually quite like how much of an open book thurnal is. the way that she unflinchingly accept hally's meta on nutella on #156 and the way that she explicitly brings attention to alison's meta to townread them on #130 does not strike me as somebody who is trying to play the game with an agenda

i'm not completely sure i'll feel the same way when i wake up tomorrow, but i'm especially interested in hearing more from martin right now

My view of Martin is very vague, so I think that's agreeable enough. I have no significant "complaints". I agree about Thurnal though. After looking over their ISO I felt more secure about their sincerity than anyone else here save maybe tutuu. I will temper that with the meta-related question I asked earlier (regarding how Thurnal usually hunts re: town reads and suspects), but in the absence of an answer to that I like them.

Then, Martin appears in his PoE... ?

I don't have much of a "town read" on nutella or Alison, but I'm also not sure I'd call them appropriate Day 1 eliminations. nutella still profiles in a pro-town way with her general energy level, and my suspicions of Alison are not highly developed or confident matters. If I move on from them at least temporarily, that leaves me with a relatively tight POE pool. And it's noteworthy enough that Sloonei would be in it. My dude still hasn't done much.

To be clear, that POE pool would look like this:

Sloonei
Long Con
MartinGG99
Carotte

In that way I relate with Hally. I don't have great confidence that three mafia are in this pile. But one or two seems quite likely at least.

General takes on Martin would be appreciated.

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] It seems like you never had a really clear view of Martin's posting. What made you put him in the + half of the split? Why did you then decide to put him in PoE?

[Long Con]

Okay I would like to partner with SPF

okay, i'm in. can you help me townread you more? what's your plan for solving the game right now? do u have any concern about anyone here right now?

I plan to make judgment calls on peoples' posts, interactions, and reactions, and use those to guide my votes.

cool, who do u townread the most so far?

I think I townread tutuu the most.

[MartinGG99]

Responses to page 6.

Spoiler: show

The part I'm concerned about is that you're using that as a replacement for actually defending yourself or trying to show your towniness.

Yeah I don't think this works often enough to be a good way to spend my posts. People make their reads and then struggle with their internal confirmation biases regardless of defense. I will "clear" myself as well as I can by trying to solve the game, and I just have to hope people see it.

Yeah but what I'm getting at is that if people are like "hey I think you're scummy because of XYZ" and the response is "that's what everyone always says", then I'm not going to be very impressed by that response since it's just a dodge answer.

what do u feel like you're getting out of this exchange with jagged right now? is it helping you read him?

I'm going to give town points for this. Not that it was exactly what I was thinking, but I believe this was fairly close to my thoughts (or at least what would be my thoughts if I was present right then and there).

i was just iso'ing martin/thurnal, and i was expecting to come out of it with a scum-lean on thurnal and a townread on martin. weirdly enough, i'm kinda feeling like i'm in the exact opposite position. martin left a strong impression on me with his early townread on thurnal, but his logic doesn't read as: "this is a perspective that is DEFINITELY coming from a town mindset" in the same way that it did when it was happening in the moment. i also wasn't particulary moved by any of his other posts

on the contrary, i actually quite like how much of an open book thurnal is. the way that she unflinchingly accept hally's meta on nutella on #156 and the way that she explicitly brings attention to alison's meta to townread them on #130 does not strike me as somebody who is trying to play the game with an agenda

i'm not completely sure i'll feel the same way when i wake up tomorrow, but i'm especially interested in hearing more from martin right now

I apologize if I didn't come off as "this is a perspective that is DEFINITELY coming from a town mindset", but that sort of caution is necessary with regards to my experience level.

Consider thinking about it this way: I didn't announce a TR or any sort of read on anyone else at the time. This would imply that my publicly stated read was (and is) the most confident at that point in time.

I don't often like defending and presenting a different view of my own posts to players who suspect me (or mention me without talking to me), but I think in this case its necessary because when just ISO'ing its sometimes easy to forget the context or important details. Otherwise I feel like my opening is going to get misinterpreted here (for better or worse).

I hope you understand where I'm coming from on that issue.

us: carotte, are you mafia?

carotte:

Okay, this wins the most adorable post of the game contest.

If the game reaches a Final Three, they will all be sent to The Grasslands. All dead town players will vote for which one of these players shall carry out the final execution kill.

Nice twist!

lolol

Going back to this, initial scum lean on LC. Not a big fan of using the host as an icebreaker to get into the thread, it also kind of feels off since the same text was present in the sign up thread for over a week now. The comment itself is also pretty bland, he isn't really adding anything to the mech convo.

As for the "lolol", that was basically my reaction to it 'cause I often scum read LC and it's a "why are you always so scummy LC" lol. He's more often than not scum, so no my fault

Huh. I never paid attention to host quoting and when they happen.

But now you point that out I can agree with you on that.

Kind of think nova town for the way they went about reading LC.

I can't disagree that it does look towny. I do feel slightly less about it though that they didn't post about it until after they said they read the thread at #280.

While I do think its towny of them for how they went about it, a very small part of me wonders if it was intentional after having read the thread to post about Long Con to shift some of the thread's "direction" or "focus" later on.

Although I think at this state of the game it is too dangerous to suggest or do any sort of pre-flip association tin-foiling right now, so I'm just going to town lean them.

[Thunal33]

My PoE is LC, Jay, and Sloonei with a low confidence level in that PoE. I know I've been asked before when I had a PoE the same size as the actual mafia team whether I think I've solved the game, and I definitely do not believe I've solved the game here.
Martin and Carotte are sort of in my outer PoE.
My strongest TRs are nutella, Hally, and tutuu.

Phantom votes:

Town: nutella
Scum: Sloonei

Earlier you said that you also don't really get all the scumreads on Sloonei for his nutella read. What made you change your mind to vote him now?

His recent posts look scummy, his earlier ones look null. I dislike that he's making a case on me for thinking Carotte was a different player than you, I feel like that's a really easy thing for scum to grab onto. I also dislike that most of his posts have been responding to suspicion rather than solving. It feels a bit like self-pres minded scum. However I understand JJJ's point, I won't push Sloonei hard until he's had more of a chance to show his alignment.

Hmn okay, I can see what you mean regarding the case he made about you. I don't really see how not pushing him hard and voting him is compatible though. How did you feel about his vote and push on LC?

I honestly don't think it means much - since LC is doing little he's an easy target for scum!Sloonei to push if he were town but I don't think that vote means they aren't teamed either. Town!Sloonei could also make that vote since it makes reasonable sense.

[Thunal33]

My PoE is LC, Jay, and Sloonei with a low confidence level in that PoE. I know I've been asked before when I had a PoE the same size as the actual mafia team whether I think I've solved the game, and I definitely do not believe I've solved the game here.
Martin and Carotte are sort of in my outer PoE.
My strongest TRs are nutella, Hally, and tutuu.

Phantom votes:

Town: nutella
Scum: Sloonei

Earlier you said that you also don't really get all the scumreads on Sloonei for his nutella read. What made you change your mind to vote him now?

His recent posts look scummy, his earlier ones look null. I dislike that he's making a case on me for thinking Carotte was a different player than you, I feel like that's a really easy thing for scum to grab onto. I also dislike that most of his posts have been responding to suspicion rather than solving. It feels a bit like self-pres minded scum. However I understand JJJ's point, I won't push Sloonei hard until he's had more of a chance to show his alignment.

I think it is a mistake to regard my post about you as a "case." It is not that. When I make a case on somebody, you will know it. Usually I'll say things like "Here is my case on X." That will rarely if ever happen early on Day 1.

I had a concern about you and I voiced it. That is all. You offered a read on a player who doesn't exist. I think that's noteworthy. It still is.

Why is it scum indicative? I was really considering bringing up Telemundo but Nutella already did lol.

[MartinGG99]

Only had one response/question for page 7.

Nanook seems fine. novaselinenever is a civilian.

Are your reasons for this similar to the ones found itt or are they different?

If you don't wish to elaborate on those reasons then you can just say if they're the same/similar or dissimilar/different.

[MartinGG99]

Responses to page 8.

Spoiler: show

a thought i had about this setup while brainstorming is that the "the person who has the least votes gets sent to the grasslands" rule basically functions as a doc save - we can ensure that our strongest townread gets sent to the endgame if we take advantage of the mechanics to save them every night (and we can also use them as a means to submit the execution kill that we want - this was discussed as an idea in the pre-game but it's worth bringing up again)

While I did read about that pre-game strategy post, and this, I can't help but feel a bit skeptical of things related to this plan.

Let me say this first though: I do agree with the idea so far in terms of a "best bet".

However, the only failing of that plan is that it relies on not having scum manipulate the execution to be onto a townie, or be the one who's selected to carry out the execution.

Additionally, there may be a divide as to who is the "towniest" or should be least-voted.

Although, I think I feel safer with this plan rather than the imaginable alternatives right now.

I think trying to think of the votes as anything else at the moment may make things a bit too unpredictable for town to (collectively) handle, hence why I agree with it the most at the moment. Though I suppose that may be a thought to consider later if we've repeatedly failed to catch a single scum since at that point the game would be proof that the plan hasn't worked. In which case, trying to shake things up may put things out of scum's control.

I have a hate and love relationship with this post.

If hate and love are equivalent to say like, town points and scum points, do you have anything else to say about that post? Or is there something you would like to point out about it?

Otherwise, if my interpretation is correct, its basically saying "This looks towny and it looks scummy", which is nothing.

(This was answered by a later post)

Well I didn't mean to post that. Larger post incoming. Preview so as to not completely burn two posts: I am tired of being suspected from the outset of every game here. It is draining and Not Fun. But people are, like, allowed to read me. They need to read me if the game is going to proceed. But it's not fun for me.

If it helps, I don't have any negative tinfoils about you for the moment. I find most of the public reasons to scum-read you a bit flimsy and not particularly strong to warrant a D1 (or is it technically night 1?) execution kill on, especially since it was just 1 thing that, for all I know, may have been a misunderstanding.

martin is maybe the tr im least confident in when i step back and look? as in, i may have been lowering the bar too much because he’s new-ish. i’ll see what he does going forward

I actually would appreciate this. If I'm given special "newbie" status all the time then that isn't really going to help me learn how to play when I'm no longer considered a newbie. To emphasize though, I'm saying this regardless of my alignment here.

I have a hate and love relationship with this post.

tell me more

I have read it several times, and every time come out with a different take. Initially felt pure in tone, like an enthusiastic townie wanting to add to the mechanical conversation and give his thought. At other times, I'm not actually sure what he is adding to the conversation, there are a lot of words but he isn't really saying much and there is no stance either way. Even when commenting on the plan or the issues, there is nothing specific about it and it's just filled with "it's probably the best way, but bla bla bla, although I'm all for it, however bla bla bla" lol. It goes without saying that a the most townie pick is unlikely to be unanimous as would be the eliminated player in a normal game, also same with mafia manipulating the execution or the pick. It'd be the same exact thing in a normal game, it's the name of the game lol.

But then deeper into the rabbit hole, that "not adding much to the conversation" actually resonates as town if that makes sense lol. Feels like a town post in that sense, like a townie just pouring his raw thought into the thread with no real agenda behind them.

Okay, thanks for stating that. Answers one of my responses above in this spoilered post of responses.

[MartinGG99]

Responses to page 9.

Spoiler: show

Oh yea i just thought of this

@JaggedJimmyJay jimbo jax jeraldo, u said how alison had the false bravado thing, what about nook?

I didn't get the same impression from Nanook, particularly given that his "bravado" (e.g. the just give me the gun stuff) didn't take the shape of a read on anyone. It was just general conceit in his usual form. What I like more about Nanook is that I think his reads look authentic -- especially his hard town read on novaselinenever, which preceded the general consensus we're seeing on nova now.

I think I can sheep this. Still though, I don't think they should be the one to receive the doc save and gun. I would prefer it to be tutuu as I've said before in my past few spoiled posts.

Thunal is a she. And I think you're overblowing the weirdness of that, I just assumed she hadn't realized about the name and didn't particularly remember anything from Carotte hence not having a townread on her lol. It's not the type of inconsistency I'm concerned with. Do you think there's something scum indicative about it?

I will admit, I've been guilty of doing the word "he" improperly once or twice this game. I just didn't post and apologize about it in order to conserve postage that may or may not be necessary later on for me.

Though I've been working on using "they" a lot over the past year or so, as a default pronoun to use.

General takes on Martin would be appreciated.

I think a few general reads have been given out/sprinkled over the course of several pages. I was only there for about the first 100 posts or so then I had IRL to deal with until I came back to find ~500 posts made in the game so far.

Am I the only one town reading Sloonei lol?

Aside from you it kinda feels like I am the only one not-scum-reading them.

It feels like his moves, statements, or arguments have been too awkward to be mafia/scum at the moment.

Also the fact that he had to disappear for a bit and posted about not being having the time to focus on the accusations laid against him until recently makes me think there may be external factors at play here that's distorting his town play....as town.

I don't have a good town read on him, but I do think its strong enough to warrant not being the D1/N1 execution target from my point of view.

[MartinGG99]

Responses for page 10.

Spoiler: show

Martin is just a very transparent player I think. There's something about the way he talks about managing information and how he feels his tell on Thunal can only be used once that rings of truth to me; I can sense the paranoia about being fooled by scum there. Honestly even this is like some attempt at verbalizing or rationalizing a gut read that was probably made for murkier reasons though.

I think I find players easier to read if their playstyle is similar to mine (duh). For instance I found proto's approach to the game very easy to read and vibe with, and I have a good track record of reading proto because of that. I suspect Martin is a similar case, and I townread him.

^ I kinda want to townread this post, because I also had the vague idea that Martin was somewhat similar to Proto and that it's the archetype of player that w!Alison would want to pocket. Alison initial way of approaching Martin didn't seem like she was actively trying to pocket him and I don't think she would be disclosing that much "info" if she was a wolf.

Is there anything preventing you from town reading that post? You said you "kinda want" as if there's something holding you back.

Why is it specifically one between {Carotte, Sloonei} and one between {Martin, Thunal} and not like {Carotte, Thunal} for example?

cuz i dont think carotte and sloonei are w/w due to the way carotte gave a read on sloonei and i dont think martin and thunal are w/w due to the way they hard townread each other at start of the game without playing each other in the past; it just didnt look faked on both ends

Carotte questioned the pairings, in lieu of giving an opinion.

vote: carotte

sorry sweetiepie i rly love u but i think we might have different alignments

The timing of this makes me think this is very pure. Both of the first responses were made in the same minute by Tutuu and Long Con. If Carotte is mafia or scum here there I would honestly argue that this clears them both. Or at the very least puts Long Con towards the end of a PoE.

[MartinGG99]

Alright. So I'm all caught up. And that took a fair bit longer than I thought.....

Oh well. Anyways,

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] When you get the time:

You discussed a bit about the Thunal-on-Carotenoid interaction, but I was wondering if you had any thoughts about Carotenoid?

Please note the point of this question isn't related to other player's pushes on to you.

[MartinGG99]

Where can I see Phantom vote totals?

town votes:
tutuu - 2 - alison, tutuu
spf - 2 - hally, nutella

scum votes:
carotte - 3 - hally, JJJ, tutuu
sloonei - 2 - alison, nutella
long con - 1 - sloonei

Also I believe I put in one of my spoiled posts recently:

Town Vote: Tutuu

I don't have a phantom scum vote yet, but I do believe I will have one soon. If not tonight then by tomorrow, a few hours before EoD.

[Alison]

I like Thunal more today.

I'm not sure if everyone understands that the person sent to the grassland only gets to shoot *among* the persons in the grassland? (most voted, least voted, sent by scum)

I think tutuu & nutella are town. I liked Nanook/SPF/nova/LC/JJJ with no particular order.

I have some mixed feelings about Alison. I think that the only thing I really disliked is how she asked Hally why I wasn't on their read list (I thought it was pretty evident that they jsut didn't have a read on me) and then not really followed up when Hally answered that they didn't have a read yet.

Honestly I just wanted to start a conversation about you because I had a scumread on you, but then Hally said they had no read so I moved on.

[Sloonei]

Hey guys I'm literally the best mafia player in the world now, so don't vote for me today. Thanks.

[Hally]

SLOONEI GOAT SEASON 7 CHAMP AAAAAAAAA

[staypositivefriend]

Hey guys I'm literally the best mafia player in the world now, so don't vote for me today. Thanks.

cant argue with that :P

[Alison]

I am a little suspicious of Long Con since he doesn't have much to say but he still has a presence and makes jokes and short responses. Is that normal for him?

Yes and I've misexed him a couple of times because of it.

[nutella]

Hey guys I'm literally the best mafia player in the world now, so don't vote for me today. Thanks.

deal, I'll vote for you tomorrow!

[Alison]

General takes on Martin would be appreciated.

I have a confident townread on him.

Am nearly caught up. Will post thoughts once I am.

[Alison]

I need to go do things that are not mafia.

nutella is town
tutuu is town
nova is not ted and town.
martin was town earlier but i have not revisited that read.

?

[Alison]

Clarifying because the bold doesn't look as obvious as I thought - why is nutella town? You just gone down explaining why her behavior is totally null for you because she tinfoils you every game.

[Sloonei]

Clarifying because the bold doesn't look as obvious as I thought - why is nutella town? You just gone down explaining why her behavior is totally null for you because she tinfoils you every game.

I've said several other things about nutella besides that.

[Long Con]

I am a little suspicious of Long Con since he doesn't have much to say but he still has a presence and makes jokes and short responses. Is that normal for him?

Yes and I've misexed him a couple of times because of it.

Well, let it be known that I'm definitely male.