Grasslands [Game Thread]

[MartinGG99]

Man u kno wat im tired af of this vote tally thingy, imma just [VOTE: Carotenoid] aubergine and im not voting myself, if u guys pick someone else over me then they get sent anyway cuz im like top poster so all good. And i might be online to self vote myself later on if needed, if it even bcomes necessary iight kewl

Hmm. Are we (the town) sure about Carotenoid though?

I think its a bit LHF to get rid of Carotenoid, which can imply being town.

In my 2nd town game (3rd game I played), 2-3 players who I thought were easy eliminations happened to actually be town when they were either night-killed or eliminated, and so I'm a little wary to just off Carotenoid right now unless we're imagining that Carotenoid is a day 1 bus.

[Alison]

Man u kno wat im tired af of this vote tally thingy, imma just [VOTE: Carotenoid] aubergine and im not voting myself, if u guys pick someone else over me then they get sent anyway cuz im like top poster so all good. And i might be online to self vote myself later on if needed, if it even bcomes necessary iight kewl

Not voting yourself just basically means you're voting yourself as the person who should get the gun. Which is reasonable for you to do, since you're in my doc pool anyway. I'm going to go ahead and lock a vote on myself since I don't think it's likely I'll get the gun.

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

Currently I'm deciding between Sloonei and Thunal for my second vote. I'll do a formal vote on them nearer the deadline when I'm certain of my choice.

where did your early sr on carotte go, alison? i haven’t seen you talk about her again since then despite her getting a lot of suspicion since. how has your read on her progressed?

I was more focused on building a case on Thunal and watching to see if Sloonei improves/watching JJJ's read on Sloonei. She improved a little in my eyes due to resurfacing after I pointed out her disengaged feel, but seems to have dipped again; although not to a degree that I can rule out real life issues as being a reasonable cause.

I haven't really found anything she's done that's townie enough to really counterbalance the early scumread. Playing it low key as mafia is well within her range too (see amdibals). For those reasons she's still in my POE and my read on her has not changed an awful lot.

[Alison]

Man u kno wat im tired af of this vote tally thingy, imma just [VOTE: Carotenoid] aubergine and im not voting myself, if u guys pick someone else over me then they get sent anyway cuz im like top poster so all good. And i might be online to self vote myself later on if needed, if it even bcomes necessary iight kewl

Hmm. Are we (the town) sure about Carotenoid though?

I think its a bit LHF to get rid of Carotenoid, which can imply being town.

In my 2nd town game (3rd game I played), 2-3 players who I thought were easy eliminations happened to actually be town when they were either night-killed or eliminated, and so I'm a little wary to just off Carotenoid right now unless we're imagining that Carotenoid is a day 1 bus.

Why does easy elimination = "town or bus"? Why can't they be caught mafia?

(This site has a pretty high rate of eliminating scum D1, also.)

[Alison]

@Alison do you have any thoughts on the relationship between Thunal and Carotte?

Probably not W/W.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]Hally[/mention] you asked me about the relationship between Carotte and Alison. If I were doing a blind interaction chart that would be a block I'd be tempted to color orange. They've both said a decent amount about one another without arriving at conclusions I would call clear or inspiring -- lots of room to land on town reads or mafia reads both ways depending upon the momentum of the game.

Take that with a grain of salt, because I don't believe pre-flip associations are super wise if not done comprehensively for everyone, or at least everyone within a POE pool.

[Hally]

@MartinGG99 I would be grateful if you could share your perspective of Alison please and thank you.

Personally, I haven't been particularly swayed by them by a whole lot since its day 1. However, I don't think anything they've done has been particularly scummy, and I think their rush to say that I pocketed them is indicative of being towny. I mean, if you were to try and pocket someone as scum, why would you rely on a player who has 6 games played so far to defend you? I'm not going to say no scum will ever do it but I do believe as it stands, I just think in this game's context, town's more likely to do that.

As for their prodding so far about your reaction to the Jay + Sloonei tinfoiling, I disagree with its prominence and relevance to your alignment. It could be honest differences in opinion, but I've felt the irrelevance or impertinence of it was preety obvious (in my opinion of course), especially since its day 1. I would almost say that's towny as well...but I almost can feel like if they're scum here then they're just trying to do things in order to get some town cred of some sort by doing things that don't immediately appear as scummy. Sort of a defensive scum play style where you don't particularly care who the town eliminates so long as its a townie.

If there was one post that bothered me most, it probably would be this one:

Spoiler: show

I actually am not a huge fan of how the response from both JJJ and Sloonei to the theory of a JJJ/Sloonei wolf game has been "I'm tired of people always theorizing about JJJ/Sloonei wolf teams". If you think about it, that is actually an AtE defense (albeit a more polite and subtle kind), since it doesn't actually do anything to rebut the theory that they're wolfing together.

This looks fake too.

"That is actually an AtE defense", whether true or not (I don't get it), says nothing about whether it is genuine. I don't think either of us made an effort to "rebut", because the accusation means so little at this point. I'm not mafia. I don't know about Sloonei, but we cannot be teamed. We can be sarcastic about the notion, because it is an age-old meme. I used to make fun of Epignosis back in the day for making the token "JJJ and Sloonei are teammates" accusation at least once per game thread.

This post has little hunting value unless you believe us to be actual mafia teammates. Is that what we are?

I don't think it's AI for you to be tired of JJJ/Sloonei tinfoils. The part I'm concerned about is that you're using that as a replacement for actually defending yourself or trying to show your towniness. Like this applies to Sloonei especially because he used a very similar defense ("nutella always scumreads me") instead of trying to engage with nutella to show her that he's town, or rebutting the case that nutella had on him. That bothered me quite a lot when he dismissed the case nutella had as "nutella tinfoiling me is on brand".

I generally think that this behavior increases both of your individual scum equity slightly, but it doesn't do much to make me suspect the specific team of JJJ/Sloonei.

Here they say that they don't think its AI to be tired or annoyed of scum-team tinfoils. Then says using a non-AI thing to defend yourself is somehow AI? I would personally stop at "you're using that", and just go no further if "that" is a thing that I say is likely NAI.

And at the end of it, she self-admits that such an observation only increased "scum equity" slightly....so that kinda begs the question as to why she brought it up in the first place: "I actually am not a huge fan of how the response...".

At the end of the day though, they didn't spend much posts about it (and technically just only 1 post until she got questions about it) and so I think it might not be scum-indicative, unless they're just poking at things they don't like as part of a defensive scum play style.

But for me that's just tinfoiling that they're scum. I think they're town, and I did sheep them a bit on #119 (and the following interactions resulting from that looks good to me).

If you think I have misinterpreted some things about Alison, or failed to consider some possibilities, feel free to say so.

i know that martin has been getting less love lately but i’m... finding it difficult to not tr him. he just feels so genuine both in his tone and his thought process. maybe i’m being dumb or underestimating him but i see a villager here

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The other issue I have is that so far you've scumread someone for starting to scumread you (me), and townread two people (or at least liked their posts) for starting to townread you (SPF and Carotte). This isn't a consistent pattern in the sense that you don't townread everyone for townreading you (eg. I scrolled through your ISO and didn't see you reciprocatively townreading Martin or JJJ). But the fact that the three people you did so on were the same people I thought you had shallow reads on suggests that you might have been pulling together an excuse to scum/townread them for a more self-serving motive.

I'm not sure I'd call this a reasonable expectation for Thunal or his reads (that she'd be "consistent" about reciprocating them as a civilian).

[Thunal33]

Thunal, could you please state/expand on your read on me?

At first I wasn't sure about you since in the finals I really thought you were town the whole time and you just gave off obvtown vibes but you didn't seem quite as towny here at first, but now I'm giving you a light townread. It would make sense that you're not quite as clearly town if you're town since you were trying your absolute hardest in the finals. I like that you're trying to solve the game by building a towncore which is a strategy I think benefits town and of course is similar to what you did in finals, and the questions you're asking people make a lot of sense. Your approach to reading isn't quite conventional imo and I like that since personally I tend to read people in a more conventional way as scum while I try different things as town.

It really was good for me to spectate the finals closely tbh since it gave me some idea on the meta of a few players here.

[Alison]

You're misrepping me. I literally never said I scumread you and I don't. I townread you early for making a lot of sense but from the POV that I'm town this push doesn't make a lot of sense. I never said I scumread you once, I said I don't townread you anymore and I'm not sure about you. I'm not giving everyone that townreads me town points since it's really easy for scum to fake a townread on me. It was the way SPF did it (having expectations for what will happen when she looks through my ISO and then changing her mind on both me and Martin from our ISOs) and to a lesser degree the way Carotte did it that makes me think their specific progressions were towny. No, I won't townread everyone who townreads me.

Look at the first couple pages of this game and look at the townleans I gave out: https://mafiacafe.boards.net/thread/105 ... ial?page=2

Hally can also vouch that I do this sort of reading style as any alignment and actually a little more often as town (as scum I tend to have a harder time transitioning from fluff to solving).

So expand on the way those specific progressions were townie. Because earlier you said it was the fact that they re-evaluated at all, when they could have opportunistically continued to scumread you, that was townie about the read changes.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i know that martin has been getting less love lately but i’m... finding it difficult to not tr him. he just feels so genuine both in his tone and his thought process. maybe i’m being dumb or underestimating him but i see a villager here

I appreciate the substance of Martin's reply to me there; he spared no effort to give me a thorough answer. I'm a bit uneasy that his conclusions about Alison seem to convey a tone of some confidence, or they pack a punch, both for giving her town credit and for casting suspicion on the post he highlighted. I remain torn.

[Hally]

Man u kno wat im tired af of this vote tally thingy, imma just [VOTE: Carotenoid] aubergine and im not voting myself, if u guys pick someone else over me then they get sent anyway cuz im like top poster so all good. And i might be online to self vote myself later on if needed, if it even bcomes necessary iight kewl

Hmm. Are we (the town) sure about Carotenoid though?

I think its a bit LHF to get rid of Carotenoid, which can imply being town.

In my 2nd town game (3rd game I played), 2-3 players who I thought were easy eliminations happened to actually be town when they were either night-killed or eliminated, and so I'm a little wary to just off Carotenoid right now unless we're imagining that Carotenoid is a day 1 bus.

lhf can easily be mafia too. i don’t think this is a reason in and of itself to not eliminate carotte

is there anyone you feel better about eliminating?

[Alison]

The other issue I have is that so far you've scumread someone for starting to scumread you (me), and townread two people (or at least liked their posts) for starting to townread you (SPF and Carotte). This isn't a consistent pattern in the sense that you don't townread everyone for townreading you (eg. I scrolled through your ISO and didn't see you reciprocatively townreading Martin or JJJ). But the fact that the three people you did so on were the same people I thought you had shallow reads on suggests that you might have been pulling together an excuse to scum/townread them for a more self-serving motive.

I'm not sure I'd call this a reasonable expectation for Thunal or his reads (that she'd be "consistent" about reciprocating them as a civilian).

That wasn't my implication. It was a qualifying statement to point out that not everything Thun does is self serving, but these particular reads, of interest, are.

[Thunal33]

You're misrepping me. I literally never said I scumread you and I don't. I townread you early for making a lot of sense but from the POV that I'm town this push doesn't make a lot of sense. I never said I scumread you once, I said I don't townread you anymore and I'm not sure about you. I'm not giving everyone that townreads me town points since it's really easy for scum to fake a townread on me. It was the way SPF did it (having expectations for what will happen when she looks through my ISO and then changing her mind on both me and Martin from our ISOs) and to a lesser degree the way Carotte did it that makes me think their specific progressions were towny. No, I won't townread everyone who townreads me.

Look at the first couple pages of this game and look at the townleans I gave out: https://mafiacafe.boards.net/thread/105 ... ial?page=2

Hally can also vouch that I do this sort of reading style as any alignment and actually a little more often as town (as scum I tend to have a harder time transitioning from fluff to solving).

So expand on the way those specific progressions were townie. Because earlier you said it was the fact that they re-evaluated at all, when they could have opportunistically continued to scumread you, that was townie about the read changes.

That's true for Carotte (which is why I'm much less sure on her than I am on SPF) but for SPF it's the way she reevaluated me plus just having a lot of thoughts that make sense and some mindmelds with me.

[Hally]

Man u kno wat im tired af of this vote tally thingy, imma just [VOTE: Carotenoid] aubergine and im not voting myself, if u guys pick someone else over me then they get sent anyway cuz im like top poster so all good. And i might be online to self vote myself later on if needed, if it even bcomes necessary iight kewl

Not voting yourself just basically means you're voting yourself as the person who should get the gun. Which is reasonable for you to do, since you're in my doc pool anyway. I'm going to go ahead and lock a vote on myself since I don't think it's likely I'll get the gun.

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

Currently I'm deciding between Sloonei and Thunal for my second vote. I'll do a formal vote on them nearer the deadline when I'm certain of my choice.

where did your early sr on carotte go, alison? i haven’t seen you talk about her again since then despite her getting a lot of suspicion since. how has your read on her progressed?

I was more focused on building a case on Thunal and watching to see if Sloonei improves/watching JJJ's read on Sloonei. She improved a little in my eyes due to resurfacing after I pointed out her disengaged feel, but seems to have dipped again; although not to a degree that I can rule out real life issues as being a reasonable cause.

I haven't really found anything she's done that's townie enough to really counterbalance the early scumread. Playing it low key as mafia is well within her range too (see amdibals). For those reasons she's still in my POE and my read on her has not changed an awful lot.

interesting

[Thunal33]

Man u kno wat im tired af of this vote tally thingy, imma just [VOTE: Carotenoid] aubergine and im not voting myself, if u guys pick someone else over me then they get sent anyway cuz im like top poster so all good. And i might be online to self vote myself later on if needed, if it even bcomes necessary iight kewl

Hmm. Are we (the town) sure about Carotenoid though?

I think its a bit LHF to get rid of Carotenoid, which can imply being town.

In my 2nd town game (3rd game I played), 2-3 players who I thought were easy eliminations happened to actually be town when they were either night-killed or eliminated, and so I'm a little wary to just off Carotenoid right now unless we're imagining that Carotenoid is a day 1 bus.

Carotte doesn't even look bad, she's just suspicious to a lot of people since she hasn't done much to clear herself as town compared to many others. It does feel a bit LHF and generally I'm opposed to just eliming that person with the low post count and a lack of posts that seem towny on D1 (unless I have a strong reason to read them as wolf, which I don't with Carotte).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

One hesitation I encounter about going after Alison or taking her to task -- I think she is an easy player to nitpick. Her posts are thick and thoughtful regardless of alignment, and that means each of them presents more opportunities than most to be interpreted in an unsavory manner. I suffer the same fate. With that in mind, I'd appreciate any feedback I can get from non-Alison sources about specific grievances I raise relating to Alison's posts. If you feel it's nitpicking, please say so. It never feels like nitpicking to the nitpicker.

[Hally]

@Hally you asked me about the relationship between Carotte and Alison. If I were doing a blind interaction chart that would be a block I'd be tempted to color orange. They've both said a decent amount about one another without arriving at conclusions I would call clear or inspiring -- lots of room to land on town reads or mafia reads both ways depending upon the momentum of the game.

Take that with a grain of salt, because I don't believe pre-flip associations are super wise if not done comprehensively for everyone, or at least everyone within a POE pool.

alright, thanks. i agree for what it’s worth. alison’s response to me just now re: carotte seemed... not good, like alison wants to distance but not commit to a bus yet. it seems like she’s trying to see if she can get someone other than carotte killed while still “scum reading” carotte. it was too hedgey and trying to have it both ways. like, if i’m being honest, i... really didn’t like it at all

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That wasn't my implication. It was a qualifying statement to point out that not everything Thun does is self serving, but these particular reads, of interest, are.

Is there a reason you feel it's especially interesting that Thunal would make these self-serving reads on those specific players instead of [someone else]?

[Hally]

i know that martin has been getting less love lately but i’m... finding it difficult to not tr him. he just feels so genuine both in his tone and his thought process. maybe i’m being dumb or underestimating him but i see a villager here

I appreciate the substance of Martin's reply to me there; he spared no effort to give me a thorough answer. I'm a bit uneasy that his conclusions about Alison seem to convey a tone of some confidence, or they pack a punch, both for giving her town credit and for casting suspicion on the post he highlighted. I remain torn.

alright, i’ll try to keep an open mind

[Alison]

The actual reason my posts are easy to nitpick is that they rely on chains of logic. If you disagree with any premise in a chain of logic, then the whole thing falls apart - so often, anyone who disagrees with any aspect of my post ends up disagreeing with the whole thing. Contrast with a gut read, which is impossible to nitpick. Either you think the gut read is bad or you think is good. There's no logic to argue about. The more your posts rely on logic or structure, the easier it is to nitpick. But conversely, if the logic stands then it's more powerful. If you disagree with a gut read you just say it's wrong and they can't really argue against it coherently. But if you can't refute a chain of logic then it's not going to go away.

[Hally]

One hesitation I encounter about going after Alison or taking her to task -- I think she is an easy player to nitpick. Her posts are thick and thoughtful regardless of alignment, and that means each of them presents more opportunities than most to be interpreted in an unsavory manner. I suffer the same fate. With that in mind, I'd appreciate any feedback I can get from non-Alison sources about specific grievances I raise relating to Alison's posts. If you feel it's nitpicking, please say so. It never feels like nitpicking to the nitpicker.

alison is.... trending down for me, i have to say

[MartinGG99]

that ^ was for page 11

i also have to say that i found it kind of hard to digest martin’s catch up posts so i’m making a note to try to real time more with him. to kick that off @MartinGG99 where’s your head at rn? who do you think could be scum? who is town? any general thoughts and feelings about the game or anyone in it?

Where my head is at? I guess I'll try to talk about it.

Basically these are the people who I am considering to vote:

Long Con
Carotenoid
novaselinenever (I can elaborate on this one, though I don't think they would be on today's or maybe even D2's table for an elimination)
Nutella
Nanook

Actually, this kinda looks like a randomly-ordered PoE of sorts that JJJ mentioned. I don't know who would go into the 6th slot.

Here are the towns that I feel a bit strongly about:

Thunal33
Tutuu (Granted, I did sheep a bit on this one based on other's arguments)
SPF


Hally, JJJ, Sloonei and Alison are somewhere in between the PoE list above and towns that I feel strongly about.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

novaselinenever (I can elaborate on this one, though I don't think they would be on today's or maybe even D2's table for an elimination)

I'd love to hear about this.

[tutuu]

alison - carotte - martin - long con right sweetie?

ok. well. im not very good with. big words. and stuff. if i force myself to. usually play on my impulse

i find it extremely, extremely hard to read posts that are written in correct grammar, with proper punctuation and capital letters. its a neurological thing i think (i think i have adhd) and like, it just takes immeasurable amount of effort to focus reading such a post. (sorry to yall ppl who write correctly, keep writing correctly, im just saying how tis on my end, u dont gotta change for me!)

so like. martin is off the table sorry i just cant afford to put that effort rn

alison and carotte and long con all also write correctly but their posts are like easier to digest.

i SUPPOSE i wouldnt rule out alison/carotte w/w. it would be rly nice if carotte is mafia and alison helped a lot by pointing out how shes scummy then, and i guess i cant rule out w/w cuz she hasnt been on her throat thaaaat much. i can rule out alison/thunal w/w but maybe not ali/carotte. (independetly im still townreading alison rn in a vacuum) but yeah i mean, i dont usually do these stuff

martin tbh i just wanna called thread spewed town? if a lot of ppl townread some person they just end up being town

i cant rule out any w/w pairings with long con cuz he is a secret undercover agent of few words. he is a man of action, not words. so yah. indenendtly still think hes town lol

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] sorry i wish in a more elevated mania episode rn so i could like fire a machine gun like brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr brrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrra rrrrrrrrrrrra with attempts of analysis and stuff but like. its just. the physical limitations of the mech im operating

sorry . pls give me lots of headpats if you want even tho maybe i dont deserve them but i will ask for headpats nonetheless. pat the head pat the head pat the head pls pls pls

[Alison]

That wasn't my implication. It was a qualifying statement to point out that not everything Thun does is self serving, but these particular reads, of interest, are.

Is there a reason you feel it's especially interesting that Thunal would make these self-serving reads on those specific players instead of [someone else]?

Those were the same players I felt she had "shallow reads" on. If the reads are also self-serving, it lends credence to my "shallow reads" theory by establishing a clear motive or reason for her to pull unexamined reasoning out of a hat to justify those reads.

[Hally]

that ^ was for page 11

i also have to say that i found it kind of hard to digest martin’s catch up posts so i’m making a note to try to real time more with him. to kick that off @MartinGG99 where’s your head at rn? who do you think could be scum? who is town? any general thoughts and feelings about the game or anyone in it?

Where my head is at? I guess I'll try to talk about it.

Basically these are the people who I am considering to vote:

Long Con
Carotenoid
novaselinenever (I can elaborate on this one, though I don't think they would be on today's or maybe even D2's table for an elimination)
Nutella
Nanook

Actually, this kinda looks like a randomly-ordered PoE of sorts that JJJ mentioned. I don't know who would go into the 6th slot.

Here are the towns that I feel a bit strongly about:

Thunal33
Tutuu (Granted, I did sheep a bit on this one based on other's arguments)
SPF


Hally, JJJ, Sloonei and Alison are somewhere in between the PoE list above and towns that I feel strongly about.

thanks. i’d like to hear you talk more about the people in yellow as well as those in your poe

[Alison]

@Hally you asked me about the relationship between Carotte and Alison. If I were doing a blind interaction chart that would be a block I'd be tempted to color orange. They've both said a decent amount about one another without arriving at conclusions I would call clear or inspiring -- lots of room to land on town reads or mafia reads both ways depending upon the momentum of the game.

Take that with a grain of salt, because I don't believe pre-flip associations are super wise if not done comprehensively for everyone, or at least everyone within a POE pool.

alright, thanks. i agree for what it’s worth. alison’s response to me just now re: carotte seemed... not good, like alison wants to distance but not commit to a bus yet. it seems like she’s trying to see if she can get someone other than carotte killed while still “scum reading” carotte. it was too hedgey and trying to have it both ways. like, if i’m being honest, i... really didn’t like it at all

Not much I can say in response to this one. That's just how I feel about Carotte. If you think it's hedgy then okay, I'll just have to show you that you're wrong with the rest of my play.

[Hally]

[mention]Alison[/mention] i’d like you to talk about non-thunal players, if possible. i think you’ve made your position on her clear enough

can you do a quick sorting of everyone? just so i can see generally where your head is

[tutuu]

i think hally elevated up very much for me, among the top townreads now

i think jay also elevated up a bit. not sure who i wanan put as scum number 3 now. i still wanna have carotte and thunal as 2 of the scum. maybe something funny. how about nanook?

[MartinGG99]

@Martin: A clarification about the post you were confused about. I think it's NAI to feel certain emotions. But I think it's AI to use those emotions as a shield in place of a real defense. I am well known for being harsher than average on AtE defenses, and I think they very frequently come from scum as well. It's fine to feel things, it's even fine to express those things, but when your only response is the expression of emotion and not, like, real reasons why the accusation is wrong, then that is where I get suspicious.

I understood that. I think that is an honest opinion held by you, however I personally don't think it holds as much weight as you probably do. I think the bigger thing to look at is what they do outside of that topic. If they focus on it forever and use that defense, then hell yeah its AI and I would think its scummy.

However, I think JJJ has repeatedly tried to move the discussion away from that, and I find that to be a slightly more town indication.

This isn't a dismissal of your points -- I think they're valid. I just disagree with the valuation of those points and how you've reacted to/with them. You even said that it only makes them seem slightly more scummy.

I also think further discussion over something that has been said to be miniscule in consequences (either finding it for scumminess or towniness in the end) is probably going to be more pointless, but if it must be discussed by the town in general then I suppose we will.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

alison - carotte - martin - long con right sweetie?

@JaggedJimmyJay sorry i wish in a more elevated mania episode rn so i could like fire a machine gun like brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr brrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrra rrrrrrrrrrrra with attempts of analysis and stuff but like. its just. the physical limitations of the mech im operating

sorry . pls give me lots of headpats if you want even tho maybe i dont deserve them but i will ask for headpats nonetheless. pat the head pat the head pat the head pls pls pls

You did a great job, thank you.

I wouldn't ask tutuu to write a term paper in APA format and cite at least ten sources followed by a complete annotated bibliography. I know that's not your style. All I really wanted was your instincts, and that's what you have given me. Thank you very much for that, tutuu. Place your head in the patting zone below.

┏--------------------------------------------------------┓
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. |--------------------------------------------------------|
. |--------------------------------------------------------|
. |--------------------------------------------------------|
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. |--------------------------------------------------------|
┗--------------------------------------------------------┛

[Hally]

@Alison i’d like you to talk about non-thunal players, if possible. i think you’ve made your position on her clear enough

can you do a quick sorting of everyone? just so i can see generally where your head is

[mention]Carotenoid[/mention] same to you if you’re around. just a quick tiered list would be great. i don’t feel like i have any idea where you stand on most people

[tutuu]

LOOOOOOOOOOOL jay

oki i placed it

give me plenty of headpats now

[tutuu]

here is a funny read:

alison loves playing scum more than anything. she lives to play scum

if she was scum she wouldnt allow herself to be in a position where shes being widely scumread rn for the correct reasons

so she is town. big smart. big brain. ur welcome *bows*

[Alison]

@Alison i’d like you to talk about non-thunal players, if possible. i think you’ve made your position on her clear enough

can you do a quick sorting of everyone? just so i can see generally where your head is

Town:
tutuu
Hally
SPF
Martin
nova

Townlean:
nutella
LC
nanook

Mixed but trending up:
JJJ

POE:
Carotte
Sloonei
Thunal

[JaggedJimmyJay]

stand by tutuu while i seek out a good head pat gif. everything is anime but i don't watch anime so it would be disingenuous to use that gif so i need a different gif

[Alison]

here is a funny read:

alison loves playing scum more than anything. she lives to play scum

if she was scum she wouldnt allow herself to be in a position where shes being widely scumread rn for the correct reasons

so she is town. big smart. big brain. ur welcome *bows*

Is this just "too wolfy to be wolf" with the serial numbers filed off?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[tutuu]

awww jay u cutiepie

here is a funny read:

alison loves playing scum more than anything. she lives to play scum

if she was scum she wouldnt allow herself to be in a position where shes being widely scumread rn for the correct reasons

so she is town. big smart. big brain. ur welcome *bows*

Is this just "too wolfy to be wolf" with the serial numbers filed off?

noooooo

it means ... u know how in anime they often say "i must protect her smile no matter what!"

so its the same, except, i wanna protect her pout no matter what!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[reads list]

Any idea where you might look first if your POE of three isn't precisely the team?

[MartinGG99]

Man u kno wat im tired af of this vote tally thingy, imma just [VOTE: Carotenoid] aubergine and im not voting myself, if u guys pick someone else over me then they get sent anyway cuz im like top poster so all good. And i might be online to self vote myself later on if needed, if it even bcomes necessary iight kewl

Hmm. Are we (the town) sure about Carotenoid though?

I think its a bit LHF to get rid of Carotenoid, which can imply being town.

In my 2nd town game (3rd game I played), 2-3 players who I thought were easy eliminations happened to actually be town when they were either night-killed or eliminated, and so I'm a little wary to just off Carotenoid right now unless we're imagining that Carotenoid is a day 1 bus.

Why does easy elimination = "town or bus"? Why can't they be caught mafia?

(This site has a pretty high rate of eliminating scum D1, also.)

Noted, didn't know that this site had a preety high rate of eliminating scum on day 1.

Its just my personal experience that tells me to be careful of LHF

On my Romeo & Juliet game on MU, SPECIFICALLY on day 1, the top two wagons were town and the 3rd wagon had a scum. I can't recall any specific post I made about the wagons being too easy, and that no-one was rushing to jump on the wagon that (in the end) had a scum, but it really felt like until day 3 or day 4 it was difficult to find and catch/eliminate scum. Admittedly, maybe my inexperience had a hand in not catching scum until later.

Link*
*Shows the closest that the wagons got, close to EoD1. The top two were town, third (insomnia) was scum.

[Hally]

right now, where i stand is that i would eliminate carotte pretty much without hesitation. that feels weird to say because i’m not typically confident in my sr’s on D1, but it’s how i feel rn. im used to town!carotte being a shining beacon of towniness. in g6, sf2, space invaders, etc carotte had an undeniable purity and tenacity to her town game that simply isn’t present here. she seems like she’s really struggling to integrate herself into the game. she’s given a couple of takes on thunal and jay that on their face seem like “good observations” but hasn’t followed up with them. her read on thun shifted from her primary sr to “has gotten better” without any progression and when asked, carotte couldn’t explain why her read trended up, just that there were some posts she liked. for jay, she highlights his treatment of martin but stops short of saying what that means for jay’s alignment and doesn’t follow up with his response. and her treatment of sloonei smells of tmi. she says she doesn’t get the suspicion on him and says she believes he believes his reads, but stops short of actually town reading him because she doesn’t actually want to clear villagers. and i cannot, at this time, tell you what her reads on most people are, which is a lack of clarity that i don’t associate with her town game. also, she used scare quotes, which according to nova is punishable by death

i’m pretty confident carotte is mafia and i expect my vote will go there

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: Carotenoid] aubergine

If enough of the gang is ready to place some trust in my motivations and machinations, I'd happily take that gun or otherwise a trip to the grasslands. I will not be winning any post count tiebreakers though.

Otherwise I feel pretty good about all of: tutuu, SPF, Hally, and nova as gun recipients. I have other town reads too, but I favor a broader consensus for this purpose.

[Alison]

[reads list]

Any idea where you might look first if your POE of three isn't precisely the team?

I don't think Carotte/Thunal are W/W so I don't think this POE is precisely the team. But it's a good start and I think there's one or two wolves in it. After those three are sorted...

I'd look at LC if he keeps slanking. There's a point where unashamedly idling throughout the game stops being "townie because he doesn't care about how he looks" and starts being "mafia coasting by on a cheap read".

I'd look at you if you were wrong about Sloonei.

Other people I'd look at would depend a lot on how the game goes down and who exactly in the POE was town/scum - who makes pushes that end in a scum exe, who makes pushes that are the counterwagon to a scum exe, etc. By the time the POE is sorted, those dynamics would probably bring new people to the forefront of my suspicions. As things stand these two are the people I'm most interested in investigating after the POE.

[Hally]

@Alison i’d like you to talk about non-thunal players, if possible. i think you’ve made your position on her clear enough

can you do a quick sorting of everyone? just so i can see generally where your head is

Town:
tutuu
Hally
SPF
Martin
nova

Townlean:
nutella
LC
nanook

Mixed but trending up:
JJJ

POE:
Carotte
Sloonei
Thunal

thanks. how likely do you think it is that those in your poe are aligned with each other?

[Alison]

Man u kno wat im tired af of this vote tally thingy, imma just [VOTE: Carotenoid] aubergine and im not voting myself, if u guys pick someone else over me then they get sent anyway cuz im like top poster so all good. And i might be online to self vote myself later on if needed, if it even bcomes necessary iight kewl

Hmm. Are we (the town) sure about Carotenoid though?

I think its a bit LHF to get rid of Carotenoid, which can imply being town.

In my 2nd town game (3rd game I played), 2-3 players who I thought were easy eliminations happened to actually be town when they were either night-killed or eliminated, and so I'm a little wary to just off Carotenoid right now unless we're imagining that Carotenoid is a day 1 bus.

Why does easy elimination = "town or bus"? Why can't they be caught mafia?

(This site has a pretty high rate of eliminating scum D1, also.)

Noted, didn't know that this site had a preety high rate of eliminating scum on day 1.

Its just my personal experience that tells me to be careful of LHF

On my Romeo & Juliet game on MU, SPECIFICALLY on day 1, the top two wagons were town and the 3rd wagon had a scum. I can't recall any specific post I made about the wagons being too easy, and that no-one was rushing to jump on the wagon that (in the end) had a scum, but it really felt like until day 3 or day 4 it was difficult to find and catch/eliminate scum. Admittedly, maybe my inexperience had a hand in not catching scum until later.

Link*
*Shows the closest that the wagons got, close to EoD1. The top two were town, third (insomnia) was scum.

"LHF were town in one game" is not evidence that "LHF is usually town". I can show you a slew of counterexamples where LHF wagons with like 80% of the game voting them flipped scum.

The truth is that if someone is easy to vote off, it probably means they were acting super scummy, which is why the whole game is suspicious of them. If it's a chronic thing, like if they always get exed regardless of alignment, then at best it's NAI and not a reason to clear someone. If they're LHF because they actually did something to suspect them for, then obviously they just have high scum equity.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My view of Sloonei is a bit less concrete than I would like. I think he seems fine still, and my only real gripe is that his presence has been low. Nonetheless, I cannot provide that rock solid town read that I usually have for him as the end of Day 1 approaches. I can only give you "I think he's probably town". I encourage everyone to continue reviewing him on their own terms. I do think that as the game progresses I will get closer to a strong stance, assuming I am alive.

[Alison]

thanks. how likely do you think it is that those in your poe are aligned with each other?

I don't think Carotte/Thunal is W/W. The way Thunal praised Carotte's re-evaluation did not look like wolf buddy interaction. If anything I'd say it looks more like one of them trying to get on the other's good side. Carotte/Sloonei and Sloonei/Thunal both seem pretty viable to me.

[Alison]

My view of Sloonei is a bit less concrete than I would like. I think he seems fine still, and my only real gripe is that his presence has been low. Nonetheless, I cannot provide that rock solid town read that I usually have for him as the end of Day 1 approaches. I can only give you "I think he's probably town". I encourage everyone to continue reviewing him on their own terms. I do think that as the game progresses I will get closer to a strong stance, assuming I am alive.

Does the fact that you can't confidently say "this is town Sloonei" the way you usually can affect the way you see him at all?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My view of Sloonei is a bit less concrete than I would like. I think he seems fine still, and my only real gripe is that his presence has been low. Nonetheless, I cannot provide that rock solid town read that I usually have for him as the end of Day 1 approaches. I can only give you "I think he's probably town". I encourage everyone to continue reviewing him on their own terms. I do think that as the game progresses I will get closer to a strong stance, assuming I am alive.

Does the fact that you can't confidently say "this is town Sloonei" the way you usually can affect the way you see him at all?

Nah I don't think so. It wouldn't be unprecedented for the read to develop more slowly than usual. If he is town I will get there. If he isn't, he already knows he's in trouble.