It's a Mysterious Universe (D6)

[TonyStarkPrime]

Poison wants to be the D1 kill, Poison won't be around any more, chop Poison?

[TonyStarkPrime]

But seriously where's Vul

[TonyStarkPrime]

Poison is acting similarly to when she was mafia and Vul is acting not at all like he did when he was town

[Marmot]

Poison is acting similarly to when she was mafia and Vul is acting not at all like he did when he was town

For someone who's never met this Poison, could you explain to me these similarities.

[Marmot]

Also [mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention], what do you make of this post from Vulcan? Particularly since they're voting for Poison, and those appear to be two of your primary suspects right now.

...Wait. Why's Marmot selfvoting?

Why are you Marmotvoting?

Because I want Marmot to do something other than selfvote, although I suppose that me saying that now defeats the purpose of my vote.

Meh.

I'm not sure what to do about Poison. I'm in a weird situation here. I think her play this game has been close to her mafia play... in an off-site game I read, but NOT the last game I played with her here, when she was mafia and fooled me. I dislike the fact her reads seem rather forced, and she seems to be struggling to find her footing in this game. The biggest thing going for her right now is postcount, because it shows that she is not afraid of voicing her thoughts, but there hasn't really been anything in her posts that made me think "this must come from town." I'm also more paranoid of her scumgame after the last game we played.

Alison is town, because I think that her thought processes not only make perfect sense, but show a lack of TMI. I might be severely underestimating her scumgame, but I think the complexity of her thoughts would be difficult to replicate as mafia. I think that if she were mafia trying to fake these thoughts, the thoughts would make less sense. But what she is saying is cohesive, I understand where she is coming from (for the most part), and she is being fairly consistent. I wrote that I did not like her early townread on Long Con, and she mostly ignored it in a way I also found very towny. There is just this air of stubbornness and confidence around Alison which I really could hardly see as coming from mafia.

TSP is town because he's actually solving in this game and he wasn't really solving in his last one. Or at least, some of his posts looked like he was solving, which is a notable improvement in comparison to the last mafia game I have seen from him. That said, the read is getting weaker, because I'm starting to see him shift back to his "I do not actually care about solving" approach. I also find the lack of shitposting very odd. Could potentially be mafia overcompensating for how I caught him last game...?
For now, I think the differences are notable enough, and I think he still deserves a townread, but I can see a world where he's mafia trying to appease me specifically, since I caught him last game and got nightkilled right after. I didn't have 100% confidence in my last game read, but it was correct, and it makes sense for mafia!TSP to play specifically in a way to fool me here. Although, maybe I'm overestimating my potential impact.
I'm getting sidetracked. The conclusion here is that I'm still fairly confident TSP is town, but I do see a singular world where he's mafia. I don't really think he's mafia, though.

[VOTE: Poison] aubergine

I'm not going to get anything from Marmot if they always selfvote like this. Would still like to see more than a selfvote, though.

By the way, @Enrique; how new are you to the game? Or did you already say it and I missed it? There's a read I have on you which only applies in case you answer in a specific way. I'm not saying what it is yet.

I find the highlighted portion to be a bit counter the rest of the paragraph. 1) Someone being unafraid to voice their thoughts looks civ to me. 2) If they're not afraid to voice their thoughts, how can said player also be forcing reads and not saying anything the reeks town?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Poison is acting similarly to when she was mafia and Vul is acting not at all like he did when he was town

For someone who's never met this Poison, could you explain to me these similarities.

Nutella had a wall on one particular aspect earlier. More generally: high general post count, more one liners than TSP. A few scum reads with content on those and not much big picture solving, though in this case we only have the promise of walls on those scum reads. Actually I don't even think we have the scum reads.

Also, frankly, Poison's posts this morning seem demotivated and sparse. As I'd expect Poison to be after losing a teammate to a day vig.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Also @TonyStarkPrime, what do you make of this post from Vulcan? Particularly since they're voting for Poison, and those appear to be two of your primary suspects right now.

...Wait. Why's Marmot selfvoting?

Why are you Marmotvoting?

Because I want Marmot to do something other than selfvote, although I suppose that me saying that now defeats the purpose of my vote.

Meh.

I'm not sure what to do about Poison. I'm in a weird situation here. I think her play this game has been close to her mafia play... in an off-site game I read, but NOT the last game I played with her here, when she was mafia and fooled me. I dislike the fact her reads seem rather forced, and she seems to be struggling to find her footing in this game. The biggest thing going for her right now is postcount, because it shows that she is not afraid of voicing her thoughts, but there hasn't really been anything in her posts that made me think "this must come from town." I'm also more paranoid of her scumgame after the last game we played.

Alison is town, because I think that her thought processes not only make perfect sense, but show a lack of TMI. I might be severely underestimating her scumgame, but I think the complexity of her thoughts would be difficult to replicate as mafia. I think that if she were mafia trying to fake these thoughts, the thoughts would make less sense. But what she is saying is cohesive, I understand where she is coming from (for the most part), and she is being fairly consistent. I wrote that I did not like her early townread on Long Con, and she mostly ignored it in a way I also found very towny. There is just this air of stubbornness and confidence around Alison which I really could hardly see as coming from mafia.

TSP is town because he's actually solving in this game and he wasn't really solving in his last one. Or at least, some of his posts looked like he was solving, which is a notable improvement in comparison to the last mafia game I have seen from him. That said, the read is getting weaker, because I'm starting to see him shift back to his "I do not actually care about solving" approach. I also find the lack of shitposting very odd. Could potentially be mafia overcompensating for how I caught him last game...?
For now, I think the differences are notable enough, and I think he still deserves a townread, but I can see a world where he's mafia trying to appease me specifically, since I caught him last game and got nightkilled right after. I didn't have 100% confidence in my last game read, but it was correct, and it makes sense for mafia!TSP to play specifically in a way to fool me here. Although, maybe I'm overestimating my potential impact.
I'm getting sidetracked. The conclusion here is that I'm still fairly confident TSP is town, but I do see a singular world where he's mafia. I don't really think he's mafia, though.

[VOTE: Poison] aubergine

I'm not going to get anything from Marmot if they always selfvote like this. Would still like to see more than a selfvote, though.

By the way, Enrique; how new are you to the game? Or did you already say it and I missed it? There's a read I have on you which only applies in case you answer in a specific way. I'm not saying what it is yet.

I find the highlighted portion to be a bit counter the rest of the paragraph. 1) Someone being unafraid to voice their thoughts looks civ to me. 2) If they're not afraid to voice their thoughts, how can said player also be forcing reads and not saying anything the reeks town?

The next word is "but", suggesting your interpretation is correct. The post in general, I mean this is a really non-committal read and that's bad. Actually everything in this post is quite hedgy in a way I don't think I should be expecting from Vul here.

[TonyStarkPrime]

To the second point, Poison is voicing thoughts but is pretty specifically /not/ giving reads. I have no clue where Poison's head is at right now. So that suggests that Poison is voicing thoughts (via post count) but those thoughts aren't necessarily town indicative.

[Funnygurl555]

so I fell asleep and yeah... uh whens eod

I'm sorry

Work and school

[TonyStarkPrime]

so I fell asleep and yeah... uh whens eod

I'm sorry

Work and school

eod in two point five hours lc is dead and a wolf give me thoughts on everything

[Marmot]

Poison is acting similarly to when she was mafia and Vul is acting not at all like he did when he was town

For someone who's never met this Poison, could you explain to me these similarities.

Nutella had a wall on one particular aspect earlier. More generally: high general post count, more one liners than TSP. A few scum reads with content on those and not much big picture solving, though in this case we only have the promise of walls on those scum reads. Actually I don't even think we have the scum reads.

Also, frankly, Poison's posts this morning seem demotivated and sparse. As I'd expect Poison to be after losing a teammate to a day vig.

I did browse her posts from before LC's death, specifically her interactions with Long Con. She did banter and chat a lot with him. On one hand, I could see a townie doing this with someone they townread (as Poison did). On the other hand, most of the interactions were either not game related, or quite shallow for in-game discussions.

I don't disagree with you, I think your assertion is very possible.


I also just came across this post:

Poison who's your top civ read?

Me













TSP. Nutella.
Syn
Marmot
Enrique

Maybe I'm missing something, but didn't Poison townread Long Con? Why would he not show up on this list when Enrique asked?

[Marmot]

I believe Poison indicated that she wouldn't be around before EOD, so we won't get any responses from her.

[Marmot]

so I fell asleep and yeah... uh whens eod

I'm sorry

Work and school

I hear sleep is better for your health than mafia, so I fully support this decision you've made.

[Alison]

Marmot is probably just town.

[Marmot]

To the second point, Poison is voicing thoughts but is pretty specifically /not/ giving reads. I have no clue where Poison's head is at right now. So that suggests that Poison is voicing thoughts (via post count) but those thoughts aren't necessarily town indicative.

I do believe that in most cases, sincerity is more alignment indicative than content.

[Marmot]

Marmot is probably just town.

That's what I've been (mostly) saying!!!

[Sloonei]

Poison & LC

Spoiler: show

Not alone!

Yo!

Buuuut... I'm going back to bed for an hour or two. I'm just up to get my kids off to school. Still off work due to Covid, so I live like that while I can. Later!

Aight, bye bye have a great day

This is pleasant but not game-related. There is no reason this can't be teammates. There is no reason it needs to be. LC was generally chattier than he has been in recent games from what I can remember, for whatever that's worth.

Spoiler: show

TSP? Is he in your scum chat?

Tsk Tsk TSP scumslip. Nice catch LC. Gg.

Poison's response does not look particularly serious, but she is going along with a very bogus "slip" allegation very early in Day 1 from LC.

Spoiler: show

Btw, I'm pretty sure he said Hi to us three cause he played with us and not the rest.

Ah, that makes sense. Only the three of us from the last game then.

Yeah.! I think I have played/playing all my games here with you.

High volume of fluffy interactions between these two early on. It does seem like Poison is responding to more than half the posts in the thread though. She is not singling out LC.

Spoiler: show

@nutella you were one of the out-of-thread demi-gods in Assassin's Creed. What can you tell us about that experience?

I don't remember a ton of detail but we had a discord, we could read the thread and discuss our thoughts, and we had daily choices on smaller or larger ways to influence the game (such as giving a certain player a power buff or something) and then a few phases in we entered the thread for a day and helped town solve the game and then left again

Could you guys do anything with the lynch or anything destructive from there?

I really don't remember sorry lol

You guys gave me a golden apple or something and I forget what that did, but it was something positive, and then I think you could vote on the day you were in the thread?

This was the game where LC self-voted for no reason and that confused me so much that I let him win at F3.

I see. Was LC in the out of the thread party? Was he scum?

This is a question about LC in another game, so not all that meaningful here. I will note that this felt like a pretty empty line of questioning from Poison. I do not see how it is relevant to this game. Maybe it wasn't supposed to be. How dare she make casual conversation?

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Syn] aubergine

I checked again and they have done nothing within their five posts. These posts were all spent on talking about themselves, their first post was a comment about the OP (which is not really game-related and is unlikely to out you as mafia when you talk about it as mafia), and they come across as trying to seem relaxed in the thread. Which is probably why they are spending so much time on "settling in."

I liked nutella's start, but I have some respect for their wolfgame, so I'm not going to pull an Alison and make a weakly supported solid townread on her out of nowhere.

what kind of opportunistic hogwash is this

Of course my posts are going to talk about me when I was responding to someone specifically asking me about my play style. Bro what

I agree, Syn didn't drive the conversation to be about himself, he was responding to questions and suspicions about him.

Come to think of it, you are a lot more memorable in this game than the last one. Are you more active in this one?

This feels like a shoehorned question. LC is not part of the ongoing conversation, but Poison barrels over to throw a generic prod at him about his activity level. This has the look and feel of two partners trying to stage an interaction.

Spoiler: show

This was the game where LC self-voted for no reason and that confused me so much that I let him win at F3.

Just want to mention that it was not for no reason. It was to "try to save" the other villager who was one vote ahead of me. Admittedly, the stated reason of "he's worth more than I am alive" is questionable, but the action of giving away an elimination like that is so unwolfy, which is the position I successfully took the risk for.

It was F3, with you and the other villa at 1 votes each? The scum hammered you didn't they?

She continues to try to figure out Assassin's Creed.

Spoiler: show

I agree, Syn didn't drive the conversation to be about himself, he was responding to questions and suspicions about him.

Come to think of it, you are a lot more memorable in this game than the last one. Are you more active in this one?

Yes, I am. I didn't feel like slanking, I think it's because I've gone over a week without a mafia game. Plus some old friends are playing, so that's exciting.

Ayy I know how it feels tbh. Not for this game but in general.

So this went absolutely nowhere.

Spoiler: show

One of Alison - Vulgard is scum probably, do not like the syn votes on page 3.

Why are Alison and Vulgard not the same alignment?

I don't think two wolves would try and tag-team a case on D1, and have such a wide divide on the logic behind it too. Alison's case has "makes sense" value behind it, while Vulgard's simply fell apart at the slightest breeze. If they wanted to establish a mis-elim as partners, Vulgard would have surely come up with something better than what he did.

I don't think mafia would try to do a miselim stunt at the start of the day tbh, but the progression was bad indeed.

Also, it's Syn's first game on the site, so it would be especially predatory for them to dive on together. Not that they really need to care about that; that's an old Syndicater perspective.

I heard from TSP last game that old syndicate people don't kill newbs at night iirc.

Another fluffy interaction. There is part of me that wants to say there are too many of these to be teammates. And, again, Poison is not singling out LC. She's been responding to everything, sometimes on-topic, sometimes not. (Also for what it's worth, I'm one of these old people: I'll never ever kill a player on Night 1 if it's their first game on the site.)

Spoiler: show

@nutella you were one of the out-of-thread demi-gods in Assassin's Creed. What can you tell us about that experience?

What do you mean by “theory meta”?

@TonyStarkPrime @Poison what are your thoughts on this game's version of Vulgard compared to the version you saw in the previous game?

I lean scum on Sloonei right now because these questions don't feel like they have any solving intention behind them. They're just filling out his post count. The first one especially rubs me the wrong way. The only thing I assume about this Nanook game is that the out-of-thread element is not the same as his last game, because I expect Nanook to have a bit more creativity than that. I expect, at the very least, a fun twist on it that would intentionally subvert our assumptions based on the previous game. Standard 'sequel' stuff.

That said, I can't see what value Sloonei expected from that question. There's nothing alignment-indicative about the way nutella answers this, and there's probably little relevance to this game.

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

This is interesting tbh and I do agree to some of the reasoning

I am becoming weary of this specific line of suspicion as a pseudo-scumtell. In my champs semifinal game, all three wolves made some version of this accusation against me. LC did it here. It is the easiest way to discredit me early in a game. I've only played one game with Poison, and I was only alive in that game for 12 hours, but it was (I think) a memorable experience for both of us (Champs Qualifier). I played that game a bit more aggressively than I ordinarily do and made myself the most obvious townie that has ever existed, so it's possible she's holding me to that standard of towniness. But even with that in mind, I have a hard time believing that Poison believes in LC's argument against me here.
The flipside of Poison only having had a brief glimpse of my highest-effort civilian game is that she's never seen my mafia game. She doesn't know what it would look like. I also got no sense that she was in any way skeptical of me in our (fairly extensive) interactions prior to this exact moment. This is a verifiably bogus suspicion from LC and I don't see how or why Poison could agree with it.

LC is more enthusiastic than she's seen before. Not inaccurate.

Spoiler: show

I can run down the list if you want me to

From memory:

You asked me about a three poster and also asked a weird setup question which I told LC was a bad read but specifically those questions
Alison made a long post early that I thought fit in her meta but felt off — too long for its purpose, Alison is efficient. I quoted it. Other early reads from Alison feel similar
FG, well FG actually townslipped iirc
Mac said everyone was town and then accepted LC’s positioning dance
LC called you out for the questions, did the thing with Mac, is LC
Vul has like 10 posts
Poison feels a little stilted and said that you had god reads which felt weird
Enrique I don’t know Enrique didn’t do anything wrong really
And I think that’s it?

I was in g9 with him. He came in for some hours. And 98% of his reads were damn right. So. Definitely super God reads. Why did you find it weird.

Although TSP is town thud game I think. Did he post a post like this last game? Don't think so.

See, here's Poison doing some work to put me in a favorable light. I sense no trace of that alleged agreement with LC's suspicion.

Spoiler: show

Don't like vul/Alison.
Syn, marmot, TSP seems towny.
LC, enrique seems okay nullish to townish I guess.
Super null on nutella, Sloonei, mac.

"LC seems okay nullish to townish I guess." As erinaceous as it gets.

Spoiler: show

Poison is blatant naked mafia.

[VOTE: Poison] aubergine

This post and vote is so bad that idk makes me scum read you more.

That's some clunky distancing, you guys.

I asked them to make a wallie about me first then vote me. Tsk Tsk.

Spoiler: show

Marmot traditionally self-votes at the start, iirc. Just putting it out there, I don't see it as at all alignment-indicative. I understand it probably confuses most players here. I don't particularly condone it as useful or productive, I just remember it.

I have always found self votes scummy, but more often seen townie doing it. But regardless of alignment I hate the idea of self voting.

Fluffy marmot chatter. That is, the chatter is fluffy. Not the marmot.

Spoiler: show

One of Alison - Vulgard is scum probably, do not like the syn votes on page 3.

Why are Alison and Vulgard not the same alignment?

They can easily be together, but there's a possibility of a confirmed mafia is higher.

I'm not quite understanding that last sentence, can you rephrase it?

Oh I explained a few posts after this, to Sloonei. Should I rephrase it again?

I talked about this misunderstanding as a slightly favorable look for Poison in my LC ISO. But it is not a big enough thing for me to make that a strong point.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

??

Little happened between Vul saying "Marmot’s first post is kinda towny, but my snapreads are legendarily bad, so I won’t rely on them too much." and then voting him.

Yes which is bad coming from vul tbh, cause last game he was doing quite the diggigg before coming to any conclusions or votes

I don't LC's post here at face value. I like Poison's a bit better. I would like it more if she was more critical of LC, but that's probably asking too much. If the team is LC/Poison/Vulgard, they are firmly committed to a bus. It wouldn't be impossible with the way the super-early-game went.

Spoiler: show

also Poison did nothing really to assuage my worries of open wolfing

and then Nutella quoted their last game as wolf, where they did the exact same thing

so idk [VOTE: Poison] aubergine

Don't get overwhelmed. I can quote you 6-7 games where i did this as town. 2-3 games as scum, 2-3 as 3p.

Are you sure you want me to read/vote me on that basis, sir?

What is it that you are doing/are accused of doing/do every game? Are you sure you are looking at your game form the same perspective? I hate vagueness.

Well, if you want meta, the recent ones, I'm just messing around every game, if you are talking about the nutella quotes, I do that a lot, regardless of alignment,apart from my first few games.

This whole exchange feels very very empty. I do not like it. LC's question is flat. Poison's answer is meh.

And then he's dead.

---
Takeaway: There is a lot of idle chatterin here, but that's more of a Poison thing than a Poison & LC thing. A few pointedly negative things are:
-Poison never says anything or offers any clear stance on LC anywhere in this game.
-Poison expresses agreement with LC's suspicion against Sloonei and later refuses to budge off a null read on him despite there being no signs of Sloonei suspicion from Poison elsewhere in her ISO.
-A couple exchanges between the two which feel particularly like teammates trying to stage an interaction purely for optics.

These can still be teammates.

[Syn]

I don't like Marmot committing to the meme four hours before EOD

Why are you more concerned about my timing then my actions though??

I come from a community where banter and random behaviour is the norm for D1, so the actions themselves don't really ping me beyond there being no real actions mixed in with them

the timing is of note because we're getting info and have a confirmed kill already, so this is about the time when people would be switching to a more serious approach rather than recommitting to the joke phase

your vote has the power to change the landscape, same with TSP's

just leaving it parked on LC, to me, feels worse than doing a sleep vote

[Syn]

oh TSP switched

[Sloonei]

Vulgard & Long Con

Spoiler: show

Oh yeah, hi TSP, Poison, LC. The others I haven't played with yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
Will get back here when there's stuff to work with.

LC is one of 3 players in this game that Vulgard has played with before. Noted.

Spoiler: show

I don't like Alison's thin read on Long Con, I don't think it's reasonable to townread him for such a thing this early.

I like Sloonei, though. I like how he's already hardcore solving, and he's doing that in a way which doesn't come across as forced.
To answer his question -- I'm honestly not sure how to answer it at this point, because my playstyle tends to be pretty fluid. I usually try to find mafia and/or town through macro reads, and when I want to push a mafia, I case them, like I did last game. This means that I am invariably stumbling around blind on day 1 and only later developing the ability to find people's alignments with higher confidence.

TL;DR Focus on macro reads, gets better as the game goes on, usually.

Indirect defense of LC via suspicion of Alison. Noted.

Vulgard mentions and gives reads on most of the players in the game, but not LC. Idk what that means. Does a mafia forget to mention their partner in a post like this? Or is it a conscious thing? Or is Vulgard just town who wasn't trying to give a read on everyone, but just dumping a bunch of loosely organized thoughts in the thread?

Another big, sprawling post that doesn't mention Long Con.

Spoiler: show

We're at three "second votes being placed on someone" from vulgard now

And that matters... why? What do you think this means about my alignment? Or Alison's alignment, or Poison's?
This comment looks really random. Why does this matter to you?

It feels like you don't know where to go. You make big long posts with every vote, don't say anything about them, then switch your vote later after not getting any traction. That's wolfy but it might also be "I'm in a game where I've played with three people and I don't have Arete" and I need to find some footing. I think it disaligns you and Alison, says nothing else.

I literally just said that I never know what I'm doing on day 1, so that's really not AI in and of itself.
I think my vote on Poison pretty much follows my thoughts about her (it also wasn't influenced by Alison's post in the slightest, although it's comforting to be on the same wagon as my townread). The vote on Marmot was a pressure vote that lost its meaning as soon as I learned that Marmot always selfvoted regardless of everything.

Do you know where to go? Is your vote on LC OMGUS?

Long Con is mentioned incidentally in a question for Tony. Means nothing.

... and then he's dead. That was underwhelming.

---
Takeaways:
There are very few noteworthy interactions between Vulgard and LC. Virtually none. Vulgard barely even acknowledges that Long Con is a player in this game outside of a specific greeting for him in his third post. After that, he never expresses a read on LC or engages with him in any meaningful way. It is not like Vulgard has been omnipresent here, but he has done a fairly good job of responding to a wide range of things. The relative absence of LC stands out.

They could be partners, but that's based on a conspicuous lack of content, rather than content which is suspicious on its own merits.

[Poison]

Omg

[Poison]

I feel bad for Sloonei. Putting all that effort on my wallie and yet... Probably my first time seeing a wallie on me.

[Marmot]

I don't like Marmot committing to the meme four hours before EOD

Why are you more concerned about my timing then my actions though??

I come from a community where banter and random behaviour is the norm for D1, so the actions themselves don't really ping me beyond there being no real actions mixed in with them

the timing is of note because we're getting info and have a confirmed kill already, so this is about the time when people would be switching to a more serious approach rather than recommitting to the joke phase

your vote has the power to change the landscape, same with TSP's

just leaving it parked on LC, to me, feels worse than doing a sleep vote

If I'm understanding a sleep vote correctly, wouldn't they be exactly the same? Why would it feel worse?

You're assigning a lot of intent to my actions that aren't actually accurate.

[Poison]

To the second point, Poison is voicing thoughts but is pretty specifically /not/ giving reads. I have no clue where Poison's head is at right now. So that suggests that Poison is voicing thoughts (via post count) but those thoughts aren't necessarily town indicative.

I do believe that in most cases, sincerity is more alignment indicative than content.

I was sincere in my last scum game.

[Marmot]

Oh Poison you're here!!! Are you ready to die?

[Poison]

Oh Poison you're here!!! Are you ready to die?

Yeah!!! I was prepared before rand!

[Poison]

Why aren't you voting me marmot?

[Alison]

I'm thinking of switching to Vulgard. I'm confident the wagon on Vulgard is pure (Mac, Sloonei, nutella are all confident townreads of mine), and there are two players in the POE voting Poison, Vulgard and Syn. Mafia cannot afford to lose another member after an early dayvig and really need a misexe right now, so it's not out of the question that a Vulgard/Syn team just piles onto Poison and tries to force it through.

[Sloonei]

I feel bad for Sloonei. Putting all that effort on my wallie and yet... Probably my first time seeing a wallie on me.

gimme some reads on some players.

[Poison]

I feel bad for Sloonei. Putting all that effort on my wallie and yet... Probably my first time seeing a wallie on me.

gimme some reads on some players.

Pretty much the same I had before. Maybe syn is not that towny anymore.

[Alison]

In a vacuum I suspect Poison more than Vulgard. But when we compare wagon purities I think Vulgard's wagon looks a lot better. In Radiohead Mafia D1 I voted my 2nd or 3rd strongest suspect instead of my 1st strongest suspect, purely because I had a lot of very confident townreads, and all my townreads were screaming for her head. I was confident the wagon there was pure so I voted her and she flipped mafia.

I'm in a similar situation now.

[Poison]

In a vacuum I suspect Poison more than Vulgard. But when we compare wagon purities I think Vulgard's wagon looks a lot better. In Radiohead Mafia D1 I voted my 2nd or 3rd strongest suspect instead of my 1st strongest suspect, purely because I had a lot of very confident townreads, and all my townreads were screaming for her head. I was confident the wagon there was pure so I voted her and she flipped mafia.

I'm in a similar situation now.

Hmm... Why do you suspect me Alison? Give me 5 points.

[Syn]

If I'm understanding a sleep vote correctly, wouldn't they be exactly the same? Why would it feel worse?

You're assigning a lot of intent to my actions that aren't actually accurate.

well, since I haven't assigned any intent, I'm not so sure about that. who knows what goes on in the head of a marmot? :P If I have to speculate on intent, though...

I guess to me a sleep vote is an explicit statement that you think killing no one is the best choice, but a vote for LC after reading his dayvig and his flip can come across like you're throwing your vote

idk what The Syndicate does but vote assessments are common in my experience, so knowing where you put your vote and why can be important

without context or explanation, a vote for LC can be later assessed as "marmot is just doing their own thing and not involving themselves in the game state," especially if coupled with joke-y meme-y retorts to random posts

and that will inevitably look scummier than someone with bad reads, or someone who's just coasting, or someone who looks a little mechanically iffy, since someone not involving themselves in the game is ultimately someone who is anti-town

I'm not saying that's what you're doing, more so just saying that my personal expectations are that people will at least have started doing some real activity at the precipice of EOD

[Poison]

Post game I really wanna ask people with my meta how could they find both of my games so similar.

I mean look outside of post counts. That is just a fog.

Also, im my next game, I'll be low posting and using correct punctuation regardless of my alignment. Let's see what happens

[Poison]

[VOTE: vul] aubergine

I'm going to bed

[Alison]

[VOTE: Vulgard] aubergine

Poison: Here's your five points.

1) Your reads haven't made sense to me this game.

2) The way you flooded the thread with a bunch of meaningless posts is a scumtell.

3) The way you handled the "I have TMI on TSP too" stuff with nutella was awkward and bad, and now that TSP has been spewed green it looks a lot like you really did have TMI on him and were trying to pass it off as a joke.

4) LC's flip hasn't changed your read on me at all, indicating that you are not interested in having good reads and are looking to push a narrative.

5) LC has made a lot of people look good except you. That means there are very few candidates who can be mafia, which means the probability of any individual player in the list being mafia is higher. Combined with the above 4 points, that makes your scum equity pretty high.

[Sloonei]

Post game I really wanna ask people with my meta how could they find both of my games so similar.

I mean look outside of post counts. That is just a fog.

Also, im my next game, I'll be low posting and using correct punctuation regardless of my alignment. Let's see what happens

the previous games i've seen from you were G9 and Radiohead. i feel like i have seen less firm activity from you here than in either of those two games.

[Enrique]

Also @TonyStarkPrime, what do you make of this post from Vulcan? Particularly since they're voting for Poison, and those appear to be two of your primary suspects right now.

...Wait. Why's Marmot selfvoting?

Why are you Marmotvoting?

Because I want Marmot to do something other than selfvote, although I suppose that me saying that now defeats the purpose of my vote.

Meh.

I'm not sure what to do about Poison. I'm in a weird situation here. I think her play this game has been close to her mafia play... in an off-site game I read, but NOT the last game I played with her here, when she was mafia and fooled me. I dislike the fact her reads seem rather forced, and she seems to be struggling to find her footing in this game. The biggest thing going for her right now is postcount, because it shows that she is not afraid of voicing her thoughts, but there hasn't really been anything in her posts that made me think "this must come from town." I'm also more paranoid of her scumgame after the last game we played.

Alison is town, because I think that her thought processes not only make perfect sense, but show a lack of TMI. I might be severely underestimating her scumgame, but I think the complexity of her thoughts would be difficult to replicate as mafia. I think that if she were mafia trying to fake these thoughts, the thoughts would make less sense. But what she is saying is cohesive, I understand where she is coming from (for the most part), and she is being fairly consistent. I wrote that I did not like her early townread on Long Con, and she mostly ignored it in a way I also found very towny. There is just this air of stubbornness and confidence around Alison which I really could hardly see as coming from mafia.

TSP is town because he's actually solving in this game and he wasn't really solving in his last one. Or at least, some of his posts looked like he was solving, which is a notable improvement in comparison to the last mafia game I have seen from him. That said, the read is getting weaker, because I'm starting to see him shift back to his "I do not actually care about solving" approach. I also find the lack of shitposting very odd. Could potentially be mafia overcompensating for how I caught him last game...?
For now, I think the differences are notable enough, and I think he still deserves a townread, but I can see a world where he's mafia trying to appease me specifically, since I caught him last game and got nightkilled right after. I didn't have 100% confidence in my last game read, but it was correct, and it makes sense for mafia!TSP to play specifically in a way to fool me here. Although, maybe I'm overestimating my potential impact.
I'm getting sidetracked. The conclusion here is that I'm still fairly confident TSP is town, but I do see a singular world where he's mafia. I don't really think he's mafia, though.

[VOTE: Poison] aubergine

I'm not going to get anything from Marmot if they always selfvote like this. Would still like to see more than a selfvote, though.

By the way, @Enrique; how new are you to the game? Or did you already say it and I missed it? There's a read I have on you which only applies in case you answer in a specific way. I'm not saying what it is yet.

I find the highlighted portion to be a bit counter the rest of the paragraph. 1) Someone being unafraid to voice their thoughts looks civ to me. 2) If they're not afraid to voice their thoughts, how can said player also be forcing reads and not saying anything the reeks town?

i disagree

marmot good though

[Sloonei]

I feel bad for Sloonei. Putting all that effort on my wallie and yet... Probably my first time seeing a wallie on me.

gimme some reads on some players.

Pretty much the same I had before. Maybe syn is not that towny anymore.

A confirmed mafia flip has not changed the outlook for you?

[Alison]

[mention]Marmot[/mention] [mention]Funnygurl555[/mention]

With the wagons this close, it is important to me that you make a clear and unambiguous decision whether you want Vulgard or Poison to die today. There is a chance that Poison and Vulgard are W/V, and if that's the case then mafia has a really tough decision to make between letting another mafia die and looking terrible off making the deciding vote on someone who flips town. So I want you to make a stand and not dodge the decision.

[Enrique]

If I'm understanding a sleep vote correctly, wouldn't they be exactly the same? Why would it feel worse?

You're assigning a lot of intent to my actions that aren't actually accurate.

well, since I haven't assigned any intent, I'm not so sure about that. who knows what goes on in the head of a marmot? :P If I have to speculate on intent, though...

I guess to me a sleep vote is an explicit statement that you think killing no one is the best choice, but a vote for LC after reading his dayvig and his flip can come across like you're throwing your vote

idk what The Syndicate does but vote assessments are common in my experience, so knowing where you put your vote and why can be important

without context or explanation, a vote for LC can be later assessed as "marmot is just doing their own thing and not involving themselves in the game state," especially if coupled with joke-y meme-y retorts to random posts

and that will inevitably look scummier than someone with bad reads, or someone who's just coasting, or someone who looks a little mechanically iffy, since someone not involving themselves in the game is ultimately someone who is anti-town

I'm not saying that's what you're doing, more so just saying that my personal expectations are that people will at least have started doing some real activity at the precipice of EOD

[Poison]

Post game I really wanna ask people with my meta how could they find both of my games so similar.

I mean look outside of post counts. That is just a fog.

Also, im my next game, I'll be low posting and using correct punctuation regardless of my alignment. Let's see what happens

the previous games i've seen from you were G9 and Radiohead. i feel like i have seen less firm activity from you here than in either of those two games.

As I said post count is just a myth. I posted 10-15 times a phase as town and got yeeted. I posted 7 times a phase as town and got yeeted in my last town game. Activity is something I M playing around with. I used to post not more than 20 posts as scum. I changed that too.

My games depends on my mood a lot, I fluff D1 in every game. Sometime less, sometime more. I am mostly a high poster as town though.

I can post wallies when I like to post it to get town cred, I could do that from the start.

I'm just trying to change my meta so hard so that people starts reading me instead of my post count in the game.

[Sloonei]

Post game I really wanna ask people with my meta how could they find both of my games so similar.

I mean look outside of post counts. That is just a fog.

Also, im my next game, I'll be low posting and using correct punctuation regardless of my alignment. Let's see what happens

the previous games i've seen from you were G9 and Radiohead. i feel like i have seen less firm activity from you here than in either of those two games.

As I said post count is just a myth. I posted 10-15 times a phase as town and got yeeted. I posted 7 times a phase as town and got yeeted in my last town game. Activity is something I M playing around with. I used to post not more than 20 posts as scum. I changed that too.

My games depends on my mood a lot, I fluff D1 in every game. Sometime less, sometime more. I am mostly a high poster as town though.

I can post wallies when I like to post it to get town cred, I could do that from the start.

I'm just trying to change my meta so hard so that people starts reading me instead of my post count in the game.

i am not talking about your post count at all.

[Poison]

I feel bad for Sloonei. Putting all that effort on my wallie and yet... Probably my first time seeing a wallie on me.

gimme some reads on some players.

Pretty much the same I had before. Maybe syn is not that towny anymore.

A confirmed mafia flip has not changed the outlook for you?

I haven't really read after LC flip. And didn't dig either, mostly because of our festival tbh, didn't even read your wallie on me.

[Poison]

Post game I really wanna ask people with my meta how could they find both of my games so similar.

I mean look outside of post counts. That is just a fog.

Also, im my next game, I'll be low posting and using correct punctuation regardless of my alignment. Let's see what happens

the previous games i've seen from you were G9 and Radiohead. i feel like i have seen less firm activity from you here than in either of those two games.

As I said post count is just a myth. I posted 10-15 times a phase as town and got yeeted. I posted 7 times a phase as town and got yeeted in my last town game. Activity is something I M playing around with. I used to post not more than 20 posts as scum. I changed that too.

My games depends on my mood a lot, I fluff D1 in every game. Sometime less, sometime more. I am mostly a high poster as town though.

I can post wallies when I like to post it to get town cred, I could do that from the start.

I'm just trying to change my meta so hard so that people starts reading me instead of my post count in the game.

i am not talking about your post count at all.

I thought your activity indicated post count

[TonyStarkPrime]

In a vacuum I suspect Poison more than Vulgard. But when we compare wagon purities I think Vulgard's wagon looks a lot better. In Radiohead Mafia D1 I voted my 2nd or 3rd strongest suspect instead of my 1st strongest suspect, purely because I had a lot of very confident townreads, and all my townreads were screaming for her head. I was confident the wagon there was pure so I voted her and she flipped mafia.

I'm in a similar situation now.

this is a terrible choice

[Alison]

I gave you 5 reasons why you were scum that had nothing to do with post count.

[Poison]

In a vacuum I suspect Poison more than Vulgard. But when we compare wagon purities I think Vulgard's wagon looks a lot better. In Radiohead Mafia D1 I voted my 2nd or 3rd strongest suspect instead of my 1st strongest suspect, purely because I had a lot of very confident townreads, and all my townreads were screaming for her head. I was confident the wagon there was pure so I voted her and she flipped mafia.

I'm in a similar situation now.

this is a terrible choice

This is a terrible conclusion

[TonyStarkPrime]

I mean the reasoning makes sense

[Poison]

I gave you 5 reasons why you were scum that had nothing to do with post count.

I was replying to Sloonei's activity read on me