It's a Mysterious Universe (D6)

[Poison]

So this is an assumption and lemme ask you this, do you think a scum would be town reading all town members and scum read his teammate, hmmm, kinda meh right? how about we look at the bigger picture -
Day 1, scum getting scum read to and fro, a townie getting scum read to and fro [if you don't believe I'm town just assume here] what would the scum do?
Try to give explanations and lynch the townie as if it's their solid scum read? Or any other thing he would have done?

Is it so unbelievable a scenario?

Vulgard was not town reading all the town members. He voted for Marmot soon after the post in question. He pushed for Syn consistently throughout the day and Alison early on. He pushed hard on Mac after LC flipped. I think those are two members.
I think Vulgard being under such significant pressure from such an early stage would force him to do some things he normally wouldn't. That's not a comfortable position to be in for anybody, let alone a wolf in a relatively new environment. He had to be careful and also probably try to start setting up some distance between himself and his partner(s). I think his interactions with you look the most like what I'd assume distancing would look like in this instance.

Okay then, all I can say is the assumption is wrong here, because even Vulgard knew he would not be able to push a lynch on anyone you mentioned but me. His push on me made more sense than the others but I can't change your mind.

[Poison]

@Poison explain this post to me in a world where Enrique is mafia. #216 in case the link doesn't work.

He goes from hard defending Vulgard, who was under heavy pressure, to attacking Long Con, who was under little to no pressure, unprovoked in the same post.

In my last game as mafia and two games before that as town, the scum mates kinda did this. I won't say it's impossible from scum at all.

[Sloonei]

What I understood from the first made me say the quoted part. Because, as I said, that part mainly focused on aggressiveness and early distancing, which I still stand by with my earlier quote. I don't think I amde the statement without understanding that part you wrote. Unlike the latter part I agreed to. That part was specified and clear.

Then why did you ask what I meant?

[Sloonei]

@Poison explain this post to me in a world where Enrique is mafia. #216 in case the link doesn't work.

He goes from hard defending Vulgard, who was under heavy pressure, to attacking Long Con, who was under little to no pressure, unprovoked in the same post.

In my last game as mafia and two games before that as town, the scum mates kinda did this. I won't say it's impossible from scum at all.

Can you go into more specifics about this? What exactly did they do?

[Poison]

I don't understand how that clears Enrique.

"I'm going to defend the one partner who's being treated as a piñata but give no solid justification for it and then, in the same breath, turn around and bury my other partner who nobody's even talking about" does not seem like a likely thought process from a member of the mafia team.

But I am open to Enrique being scum and will listen to arguments.

But also, more importantly, my question was specifically intended for Poison.

My take on the scum is Enrique/FG. And if not them probably you are the deep wolf. I don't see anyother person here who is one.

Vulgard was a certain lynch either Day 1 or Day 2. LC was playing different from his town game and it was quite visible and people would have caught him later on. Going after vul like everybody would be so mainstream and more like sheeping when Enrique is not even that active or loud with his opinions, at least not much.

[Sloonei]

Also what is my alignment?

[Poison]

What I understood from the first made me say the quoted part. Because, as I said, that part mainly focused on aggressiveness and early distancing, which I still stand by with my earlier quote. I don't think I amde the statement without understanding that part you wrote. Unlike the latter part I agreed to. That part was specified and clear.

Then why did you ask what I meant?

Hmm I wanted you to explain more on the aggressive part and the early distancjng part I guess?

[Poison]

Also what is my alignment?

I don't know. I want to believe you are town but I'm still cannot go any further than null. Cause if you are the deep wolf. Town is doomed. I don't plan to just sheep read you, cause my flip might end up people diving into their read progession on me and you never know which would seem forced and which won't, so I'm just reading everyone exactly how it is seeming to me. Nothing more, nothing less. No sheeping.

[Poison]

*I still

[Poison]

Progression ** yo what's wrong with me.

[Sloonei]

Also what is my alignment?

I don't know. I want to believe you are town but I'm still cannot go any further than null. Cause if you are the deep wolf. Town is doomed. I don't plan to just sheep read you, cause my flip might end up people diving into their read progession on me and you never know which would seem forced and which won't, so I'm just reading everyone exactly how it is seeming to me. Nothing more, nothing less. No sheeping.

What have I done that prevents you from town-reading me? Do you have any reason to be actively suspicious of me? Why am I specifically the “deep wolf” candidate?

[Poison]

Also what is my alignment?

I don't know. I want to believe you are town but I'm still cannot go any further than null. Cause if you are the deep wolf. Town is doomed. I don't plan to just sheep read you, cause my flip might end up people diving into their read progession on me and you never know which would seem forced and which won't, so I'm just reading everyone exactly how it is seeming to me. Nothing more, nothing less. No sheeping.

What have I done that prevents you from town-reading me? Do you have any reason to be actively suspicious of me? Why am I specifically the “deep wolf” candidate?

Why can't you accept the fact that I'm not town reading you, Specifically, when you scum read me?

[Sloonei]

Also what is my alignment?

I don't know. I want to believe you are town but I'm still cannot go any further than null. Cause if you are the deep wolf. Town is doomed. I don't plan to just sheep read you, cause my flip might end up people diving into their read progession on me and you never know which would seem forced and which won't, so I'm just reading everyone exactly how it is seeming to me. Nothing more, nothing less. No sheeping.

What have I done that prevents you from town-reading me? Do you have any reason to be actively suspicious of me? Why am I specifically the “deep wolf” candidate?

Why can't you accept the fact that I'm not town reading you, Specifically, when you scum read me?

Because I haven’t seen you explain why the read exists yet, and this I am struggling to believe that it is genuine.

[Poison]

As for the reason
- mostly a feeling.
- your assessment on me is bad and I cannot let it go because I know who am I and it seems like the easy tunnel to mislynch I would expect scum to do.
- you are having the possibilities of me being town in a few rare posts but that seems like a setting for future?

The only positive thing apart from you activity would be, you voting for Vulgard last day and not me, cause I think with LC down, it won't make sense for you to vote vul as scum. But if we look at bigger picture why won't you vote vul to save you a spot in the town core?

[Poison]

Also what is my alignment?

I don't know. I want to believe you are town but I'm still cannot go any further than null. Cause if you are the deep wolf. Town is doomed. I don't plan to just sheep read you, cause my flip might end up people diving into their read progession on me and you never know which would seem forced and which won't, so I'm just reading everyone exactly how it is seeming to me. Nothing more, nothing less. No sheeping.

What have I done that prevents you from town-reading me? Do you have any reason to be actively suspicious of me? Why am I specifically the “deep wolf” candidate?

Why can't you accept the fact that I'm not town reading you, Specifically, when you scum read me?

Because I haven’t seen you explain why the read exists yet, and this I am struggling to believe that it is genuine.

If we talking about genuine reads, how do you perceive Enrique's reads on others?

[Sloonei]

Also what is my alignment?

I don't know. I want to believe you are town but I'm still cannot go any further than null. Cause if you are the deep wolf. Town is doomed. I don't plan to just sheep read you, cause my flip might end up people diving into their read progession on me and you never know which would seem forced and which won't, so I'm just reading everyone exactly how it is seeming to me. Nothing more, nothing less. No sheeping.

What have I done that prevents you from town-reading me? Do you have any reason to be actively suspicious of me? Why am I specifically the “deep wolf” candidate?

Why can't you accept the fact that I'm not town reading you, Specifically, when you scum read me?

Because I haven’t seen you explain why the read exists yet, and this I am struggling to believe that it is genuine.

If we talking about genuine reads, how do you perceive Enrique's reads on others?

I haven’t looked into them. Are there any that you specifically object to?

[Sloonei]

As for the reason
- mostly a feeling.
- your assessment on me is bad and I cannot let it go because I know who am I and it seems like the easy tunnel to mislynch I would expect scum to do.
- you are having the possibilities of me being town in a few rare posts but that seems like a setting for future?

The only positive thing apart from you activity would be, you voting for Vulgard last day and not me, cause I think with LC down, it won't make sense for you to vote vul as scum. But if we look at bigger picture why won't you vote vul to save you a spot in the town core?

I can do nothing with “mostly a feeling.”
Points 2 & 3 in conjunction paint a scenario in which I cannot win. Either I read you as scum, which (in your eyes) is bad, or I consider the alternative of you being town which is again (in your eyes) bad.

You are my top suspect and I have reason to town read everybody else. The thread has been dead today, presumably because everyone else is accepting your fate as a foregone conclusion. If I was fully satisfied with this result, I would not still be questioning you right now. As a civilian, it is my imperative to keep talking to you and to consider the future so that we have those possible other worlds set up in the event that you do flip town. I am doing all of this because I want you to show me that you are town and that somebody else is not.

Why does it seem bad that I specifically am wrong about you when nobody else (except for you) has made a case for any other suspect today? If I am wrong, the whole thread is wrong. Why am I singled out?

[Poison]

Not really, but it we look at their iso it makes more sense that he is a scummate to vul.
-refuses to vote vul who could have been lynched.
-votes a person who would not get lynched [LC was not going to get lynched, their vote ans sus does not clear him at all.]
- votes the player who would get lynched in place of vul.


Their overall play has not been much either. Nothing worth town reading him for. Not much explanations on their reads either. They also seems to be demotivated, what you'd expect a scum to be rn.

[Poison]

As for the reason
- mostly a feeling.
- your assessment on me is bad and I cannot let it go because I know who am I and it seems like the easy tunnel to mislynch I would expect scum to do.
- you are having the possibilities of me being town in a few rare posts but that seems like a setting for future?

The only positive thing apart from you activity would be, you voting for Vulgard last day and not me, cause I think with LC down, it won't make sense for you to vote vul as scum. But if we look at bigger picture why won't you vote vul to save you a spot in the town core?

I can do nothing with “mostly a feeling.”
Points 2 & 3 in conjunction paint a scenario in which I cannot win. Either I read you as scum, which (in your eyes) is bad, or I consider the alternative of you being town which is again (in your eyes) bad.

You are my top suspect and I have reason to town read everybody else. The thread has been dead today, presumably because everyone else is accepting your fate as a foregone conclusion. If I was fully satisfied with this result, I would not still be questioning you right now. As a civilian, it is my imperative to keep talking to you and to consider the future so that we have those possible other worlds set up in the event that you do flip town. I am doing all of this because I want you to show me that you are town and that somebody else is not.

Why does it seem bad that I specifically am wrong about you when nobody else (except for you) has made a case for any other suspect today? If I am wrong, the whole thread is wrong. Why am I singled out?

I don't know tbh. I think it's mostly a me problem because I rarely get sussed by others when I'm town and it just does not sit well with me. But I mean I should be expecting this when I'm changing playstyle. But either way -

You are singled out because -
1. You did the most work and even after diving that much deep your conclusions are wrong and I rarely see you considering a different world.
2. I have reasons to town read TSP, nutella and Marmot. On the other hand I am scum reading FG and Enrique yoia re in neither list. Because you have good sides as well as bad one.

[Sloonei]

I am going out for a bit. I’ll be back for about an hour. As a show of good faith, i’m putting a vote on enrique for now. I encourage anyone else who’s here right now to take a look at him and try to determine his alignment one way or another. I took a quick glance at yesterday and came out with one post that I felt pointed strongly to him being town, but I did not do a thorough scan of his play as a whole.

[Poison]

I am going out for a bit. I’ll be back for about an hour. As a show of good faith, i’m putting a vote on enrique for now. I encourage anyone else who’s here right now to take a look at him and try to determine his alignment one way or another. I took a quick glance at yesterday and came out with one post that I felt pointed strongly to him being town, but I did not do a thorough scan of his play as a whole.

I'm gonna go to bed, I'll either wake up being dead on the game (90%) or we probably win.

Either way making this post considering myself as the dead meat. Look into Enrique / FG. Tsp is 100% town. Or I won't have ice cream for a week. Marmot too. And nutella towny as well.

[Poison]

265 posts. Not bad. Anyways good night!

[Sloonei]

You are singled out because -
1. You did the most work and even after diving that much deep your conclusions are wrong and I rarely see you considering a different world.

Want to quickly say this, because I think this is a point that a lot of people have backwards in mafia.

Look at the thread right now. It is dead. I would say that I am the one putting in the most work, at least visibly. A member of the mafia team in this situation does not need to put in work, assuming you are town. There is no resistance, the clock is running out, and everyone agrees with the conclusion. Mafia can sit back and wait for that result and let the town be unprepared for the future. More than that, mafia can let a civilian do the work and hang back, this wiping their hands clean of your mischop. I think mafia members in situations like this are much more likely to be quietly hanging back than “putting in work.” This is a general point, not strictly self-defense right now. I don’t need self-defense. I’m in no danger.

There are definitely scenarios where wolves need to exert effort to get a player chopped. This is not one of them.

[Sloonei]

Flashbacks to Search For Quin when I was mischopped for being “the only one pushing a narrative” when I was, in fact, the only person in the thread who was posting at all.

[Marmot]

I take back what I said, I can't really think of a reason why I'd read Enrique as town. He also hasn't done his homework yet.

Funnygurl I suspected for lack of early activity, but she changed my mind on that.

I like Poison's effort and her vote yesterday.

[Marmot]

Hey, what if nutella and TSP are mafia teammates and they vigged Long Con for some cred?

[Marmot]

[mention]Enrique[/mention] how did you go from this to this?

[Sloonei]

Hey, what if nutella and TSP are mafia teammates and they vigged Long Con for some cred?

That would mean we started the game at 8 vs 4 in the thread.

[Sloonei]

Day end in ~40 minutes, just so we're all aware.

[Enrique]

Few comments:

1. Poison knows I'm not scum and has nothing against me. She's trying to clear herself and in the process point at the two other people who she thinks are lynchable, which on the one hand, self-preservation is understandable, but in this case also dishonest.
2. [mention]Marmot[/mention] I thought that post made you look good but later forgot about it. It's not a very radical jump in the two posts you cited either; I don't have strong feelings about you, but I do about most other players in the thread.
3. Re: my whole situation with Vulgard... true, I was wrong. I didn't think the case against him had legs, and based on that initial dismissal I didn't pay enough attention to the developments that resulted in him getting caught. Sloonei correctly points out that if it were for me though we would have lynched LC that day, and it's easy to assume Vulgard would have soon followed. I don't think this "clears me" completely, I'm not going for a supatown role in the thread discussion, but as a matter of fact I do have a town role and want to win this game as such.
4. If it comes to it, I believe [mention]nutella[/mention] should be able to clear me. I targeted her last night. She should know it wasn't something bad.
5. I've been a little removed from the thread today. I was super invested but I think the 24+ hour break kinda killed my momentum. I'm still reading, and though I'm not perfectly caught up on everything that's been discussed, I don't think that much has happened and I'm still following fine.

[Sloonei]

[mention]Enrique[/mention] if we're wrong about Poison, who should we look at next?

[Enrique]

I will be voting for [VOTE: Poison] aubergine. The one thing holding me back before was how out of sync her reads were with stuff we knew from the thread. Now I see it's bad faith opportunism.

[Enrique]

@Enrique if we're wrong about Poison, who should we look at next?

If we're wrong about Poison, if it's anyone currently in the thread, I think it would have to be Funnygurl. I think there's a decent chance that we'll get a bunch of new players we haven't had the chance to read though and hopefully they'll be armed with useful information.

[Sloonei]

@Enrique if we're wrong about Poison, who should we look at next?

If we're wrong about Poison, if it's anyone currently in the thread, I think it would have to be Funnygurl. I think there's a decent chance that we'll get a bunch of new players we haven't had the chance to read though and hopefully they'll be armed with useful information.

Why funnygurl?

I was wary of her earlier in the day, but I think Vulgard's progression on her in particular makes her look very, very good.

[nutella]

4. If it comes to it, I believe @nutella should be able to clear me. I targeted her last night. She should know it wasn't something bad.

ok

this checks out


don't think it's 100% clearing but

[nutella]

actually a previous game of nanook's had a similar town role iirc

[Sloonei]

Characters and abilities are not alignment-indicative.

[nutella]

fair enough

yeah I'm certainly not clearing enrique then

Spoiler: show

now we wait and see if my conditional vig works on him

[Sloonei]

Poison trustfall:
Her assumption that the mafia team controls the mechanic which removes players from the thread is odd and possibly not in line with the realty of the thread. A member of the mafia team would not incorrectly assume this, and it would be a clever thing to fake.
Her effort today has been better than null. I still wish she had been able to produce more concrete reads on any of her suspects (the needle doesn't seem to have moved much on any of them), but she's in a deflating position either way here so I do not think it is damning that she hasn't poured a ton of effort into solving the game when she's being faced with a million questions.

[Enrique]

@Enrique if we're wrong about Poison, who should we look at next?

If we're wrong about Poison, if it's anyone currently in the thread, I think it would have to be Funnygurl. I think there's a decent chance that we'll get a bunch of new players we haven't had the chance to read though and hopefully they'll be armed with useful information.

Why funnygurl?

I was wary of her earlier in the day, but I think Vulgard's progression on her in particular makes her look very, very good.

Because it's not nutella, very likely not you or TSP, and that leaves Marmot and funnygurl. As I said I'm pretty neutral on Marmot, and he just linked me to a post where I got a good vibe from him so I guess that's happened at least once. It's the opposite with Fg. There really isn't that much either but I haven't liked much of the buttering certain players, egging on a few others, and focusing so much on herself all the time (when she hasn't been seriously under that much of a threat). There's also the fact that she had one of the most consequential votes on Day 1. I was wrong about Vulgard and I recognize it, but my wrongness is there for all to see. Fg suspected them first and then abstained from the vote, not trying to save him but also making sure it was still a possibility and she wasn't directly linked to it.

[Enrique]

fair enough

yeah I'm certainly not clearing enrique then

Spoiler: show

now we wait and see if my conditional vig works on him

Don't you get a pretty positive effect from what I did?

[Marmot]

Do we vote Poison just for a reveal? That's what it feels like to me.

[Enrique]

I don't know what a conditional vig is...

[Sloonei]

I don't know what a conditional vig is...

she can shoot anyone but it only goes through if she targets the correct person, i think. like what happened with lc.

[Sloonei]

Do we vote Poison just for a reveal? That's what it feels like to me.

Why not Enrique?

[Marmot]

Do we vote Poison just for a reveal? That's what it feels like to me.

Why not Enrique?

Because of recent events. But yes, that's an option too.

[Enrique]

Oh yeah ok lmao. Well if it won't kill me if I'm town go for it. Even if it's "wasted" there's probably only one or two scums left and I'm sure we can get them.

[Sloonei]

funnygurl is no-voting again.

[Sloonei]

Do we vote Poison just for a reveal? That's what it feels like to me.

Why not Enrique?

Because of recent events. But yes, that's an option too.

which recent events?

[Marmot]

The one where enrique said he did things to nutella and should be given some credit for it

And nutella's subsequent acknowledgement