The Hobbit Mafia: Day 12

[fingersplints]

what*

[fingersplints]

FZ. is on the poll D:

[thellama73]

Same! Sorry I meant to say early that I hadn't noticed anything of them during my original read but will give them a look.
Since it was Dom who commented on this that reminds me... why happened to your suspicion of Dom? Change your mind or just concentrating on bigger suspects

Dom hasn't done anything new to arouse my suspicions for a while, so I am focusing on those that continually ping me. Rest assured, he is still simmering quietly on my back burner.

[Dom]

TBH, Llama, I didn't do anything. MP did.

[Epignosis]

Epignosis is on and has yet to vote for me. This definitely makes me think he was just gauging my reaction to his suspicions.

I know a way to dispel that thought.

[Elohcin]

Rest in peace Kyle.

Elo, who do you think could be on MP/FZ's team?

Not too sure. I think that Juliets may be. I think she could be bad b/c of the way she piggybacked Epi's suspicions and didn't have anything to add really. But I admit that isn't a huge amount to go on. I also think Epi may be bad but on the other team. And I think that Rey is right about the other baddie team trying to keep the focus on MP/FZ's team and off of themselves. I can see what people are saying about Mongoose being on the other baddie team as well.

Also, am considering Elo, because I can't remember who pointed out her accusation of Juliet's and Epi having btsc this game. When it fact it was the champions game Juliets meant and Elo was part of this btsc! I need to read Eis case more thoroughly, but honestly that wild accusation made me wonder more than anything else said.

I guess I should have used sarcastic orange on the post you are talking about. I was trying to be funny. I knew they had BTSC in the champions game....I was there too

I'll direct you to the same post where I said I was Busytown, USA and also sick. It's amazing I am able to type at all, frankly.

Are you taking your zinc and vitamin C?

[thellama73]

TBH, Llama, I didn't do anything. MP did.

Really? You haven't done anything? All game? Why should we bother keeping you around then?

Are you taking your zinc and vitamin C?

I don't believe in nutrition.

[reywaS]

I don't believe in tap water.

[Epignosis]

Rest in peace Kyle.

Elo, who do you think could be on MP/FZ's team?

Not too sure. I think that Juliets may be. I think she could be bad b/c of the way she piggybacked Epi's suspicions and didn't have anything to add really. But I admit that isn't a huge amount to go on.

How does her piggybacking on my suspicion (which I don't believe she did, by the way) put her on team MP/FZ (as opposed to the Townie Mafia)?

"Townie Mafia"

I also think Epi may be bad but on the other team.

Why?

And I think that Rey is right about the other baddie team trying to keep the focus on MP/FZ's team and off of themselves.

Because...nobody at ALL has brought up the other team? So DUH the other team is focusing on your team. What else would they focus on? Themselves? Saruman the White? Shelob?

I can see what people are saying about Mongoose being on the other baddie team as well.

What are they saying? Why are they saying it? ARE YOU PIGGYBACKING ON WHAT THE MONGOOSE PEOPLE ARE SAYING?

[Hedgeowl]

Rest in peace Kyle.

Elo, who do you think could be on MP/FZ's team?

Not too sure. I think that Juliets may be. I think she could be bad b/c of the way she piggybacked Epi's suspicions and didn't have anything to add really. But I admit that isn't a huge amount to go on. I also think Epi may be bad but on the other team. And I think that Rey is right about the other baddie team trying to keep the focus on MP/FZ's team and off of themselves. I can see what people are saying about Mongoose being on the other baddie team as well.

Also, am considering Elo, because I can't remember who pointed out her accusation of Juliet's and Epi having btsc this game. When it fact it was the champions game Juliets meant and Elo was part of this btsc! I need to read Eis case more thoroughly, but honestly that wild accusation made me wonder more than anything else said.

I guess I should have used sarcastic orange on the post you are talking about. I was trying to be funny. I knew they had BTSC in the champions game....I was there too

I'll direct you to the same post where I said I was Busytown, USA and also sick. It's amazing I am able to type at all, frankly.

Are you taking your zinc and vitamin C?

Hah, that makes more sense. I was a little like, daaaamn girl. Short memory? Granted I haven't slept well in 14 months, so my short term memory ain't what it used to be. Mommy brain.

I was hoping to have time to do some reading this evening, but my son has an ear infection and its been a rough night and week. I should check in before the vote, but apologies for not being more present for discussion.

[Boogs]

As said earlier, I have to vote tonight because I may/may not be able to check tomorrow. I'm going to try to take a chance and believe Elohcin to be on the other Goblin team. (votes Elohcin) here's to us getting 3 baddies in a row!

[Dom]

Rest in peace Kyle.

Elo, who do you think could be on MP/FZ's team?

Not too sure. I think that Juliets may be. I think she could be bad b/c of the way she piggybacked Epi's suspicions and didn't have anything to add really. But I admit that isn't a huge amount to go on. I also think Epi may be bad but on the other team. And I think that Rey is right about the other baddie team trying to keep the focus on MP/FZ's team and off of themselves. I can see what people are saying about Mongoose being on the other baddie team as well.

Also, am considering Elo, because I can't remember who pointed out her accusation of Juliet's and Epi having btsc this game. When it fact it was the champions game Juliets meant and Elo was part of this btsc! I need to read Eis case more thoroughly, but honestly that wild accusation made me wonder more than anything else said.

I guess I should have used sarcastic orange on the post you are talking about. I was trying to be funny. I knew they had BTSC in the champions game....I was there too

Elo, is there a reason why you didn't respond to my post on the matter?

TBH, Llama, I didn't do anything. MP did.

Really? You haven't done anything? All game? Why should we bother keeping you around then?

[Dom]

I'm not gonna be able to do that reread I wanted to. I am falling asleep as I try to.

I feel more convinced about Elo than Mongoose. I am voting her now so I don't screw up like I have every other day.

[Captain Bunny Killer]

I have to admit that the arguments for and against Elo (and for and against those who are for and against her ) are compelling, which means I really don't know at this point, and I'm probably not going to vote for her unless that changes. I've been kind of chasing other leads.

I went back and reread reywaS (short read... and I don't remember why, tbh), but I came out feeling good about him and not so much about at least one other person. There was a little-noticed exchange between reywaS, llama, and FZ that didn't leave me feeling good about llama. And llama's been kind of pushing things recently, which adds to that for me, though I seem to recall from my limited experience that he's an aggressive player. There were a couple of other things that pinged me on him in that read, but if you want chapter and verse, I'm going to have to do that tomorrow.

Also, I don't trust Boogs as far as I can throw him. Again, I will have to go back and read him, but his posts almost always come off as, what do we say around here, opportunistic and insincere? Perfect description, imo.

There's my limb. Join me if you'd like.

[Leamiteo]

Finally. caught up.

So I have been thinking about bandwagonry. Here are the last consecutive votes on FZ.
Spacedaisy (23), Leamiteo (24), DisgruntledPorcupine (25), reywaS (26) 31%

THe reasons for this could be:
1. Members of the second goblin team trying to protect either K4J or Elohcin
2. Members of FZ's team who saw her lynch as inevitable and wanted civ cred for voting for her (this particularly applies to reywaS)
3. Civs with either info or really good instincts.

I'm inclined to believe that at least one of the four is bad, and I already had lingering suspicions about SpaceDaisy and reywaS. Daisy did a pretty good job of logicking me out of voting for her yesterday, so that leaves reywaS. He is going on my list of people to possibly vote for tomorrow along with Mongoose, Dom and MetalMarsh. (in descending order of suspicion.)

For the record, let it be known that I had voiced my suspicion of FZ earlier in the day but got home from work just in time to vote.

Okay you guys... Daisy's got me eyeing her again after I went back and reread this post, including the conversation she had with FZ in the embedded quote (she's quoting her conversation with FZ as part of her defense). It reads like a lot of appealing

It would also be one-way distancing, as Daisy never mentions FZ (outside of talking to her in the above conversation)... until Daisy votes for her. Dun dun dun.

MP was a goner when I posted my support of him, he was ahead by like three votes with eight minutes to go. Why would I do that if he were my teammate and was clearly going to flip bad when I could just as easily say I suspect him? This argument makes no sense. I get why you say it if you take MPs posts and vote alone, but if you consider the whole picture and how it unfolded, it does not hold water.

That part's interesting because FZ also had an unconventional reaction before her buddy got lynched. FZ was saying things like "MP better be a baddie", or things like:

It did not strike me as suspicious actually. It struck me as normal MP.

I wonder if this is your way of trying to look better if MP comes out a civvie

For what it's worth I'm voting Daisy

The bolded accusation makes zero sense in retrospect.

I don't understand your reasoning at all tbh. It seems to be too far of a stretch to me, contrived possibly?

Also, I don't trust Boogs as far as I can throw him. Again, I will have to go back and read him, but his posts almost always come off as, what do we say around here, opportunistic and insincere? Perfect description, imo.

There's my limb. Join me if you'd like.

CBK, I may join you on that limb, but I feel uneasy about multiple people right now. My major pings were on the page surrounding the "Causation Not = Correlation" conversation starring Mongoose; I will admit I am waffling on Mongoose though. It's two days, and granted all we have to go off of, but it seems like a lot of energy to one channel of speculation and I feel like in the meantime the baddies are creeping up behind us and are going to slit our throats too! Btw, ripiywg, Kylemii

I have a few others on my watch list. I don't know, I just don't know.

Oh my gosh, it's late and I've read a bunch and zzzzzz. Time for bed.

LINKI everywhere.

[Turnip Head]

I don't understand your reasoning at all tbh. It seems to be too far of a stretch to me, contrived possibly?

"Contrived possibly"? What are you trying to say there?

Also, I don't trust Boogs as far as I can throw him.

NOBODY TOSSES A BOOGS.

Again, I will have to go back and read him, but his posts almost always come off as, what do we say around here, opportunistic and insincere? Perfect description, imo.

Why would you say that opportunistic and insincere are the perfect descriptors for Boogs?

Wait, you guys are suggesting I am on the team MP and FZ were on? Why on earth would I tie the vote up for FZ, when I could have cast my vote for k4j and given her more of a shot of surviving the lynch? This is all based on the fact they both said negative things about me, which you are saying was distancing. It could just as easily be two people looking for what they perceive to be an easy target. And I guarantee you it is, because I am not on their team, in fact I am not bad at all. I am securely civ. this seems like a major stretch to me, especially from you TH.

Daisy, this is your vote post:

I madei home with minutes to spare before the vote ends! I checked to see where things stood after I realized I could not possibly catch up before the poll ends. I found that fz was simply one vote behind k4j. Since the only suspect I have had was INH and he has no votes at the moment.if my vote is going to be any use at all, I figure it is better cast for someone who has votes already. And casting it for FZ would make a tie. So lets see how this shakes out, shall we?

What I notice is that in neither of the above posts (the vote post or the defense post derived from that vote) do you, Daisy, express any actual suspicion of FZ. You said at the time of your vote that INH was your only suspect, but you wanted your vote to matter, and that you voted FZ specifically to make a tie. Now you are using the existence of that sketchy vote to tell me you can't possibly be on a team with MP and FZ. And yet, you don't cite any suspicion of her (or your lack of suspicion against k4j) at all. You give no actual opinion of either of those players.To you they are just monikers for different perceived outcomes. A civvie has opinions on the players she is or is not voting for. A baddie only has an agenda.

[Lizzy]

I shall be looking at the 'we folk' today: Elo, Juliets and Boogie, but after I come back k.

[Vompatti]

I'm starting to get the feeling that some of the people that are pushing the thread conversation so far down "MP and FZ and who they did or didn't throw under the bus Avenue" might could be very interested in keeping the game talk on the one baddie team while basically completely ignoring the Goblin Town Goblins and Smaug.

I mean, that's probably what I would be doing if I was a member of the GTGs. "Hey, everyone, let's find those other 2 team mates asap! Let's just ignore the other threats! Ready, break!"

Yeah, that's what I be thinking.

This ^ So. Much. This. ^

I've been saying I think Mongoose is Goblin Town Goblins, but no one will respond to my requests to give her a read and comment on my case. Needless to say, this does not make me feel better about her.

Moh.
Elose? Mose. Mooh. Mooongose? Mongoh.
Same?
Same.
Elongose.
Same?
Elongoh.
Same?
Eloose.
Eloh.
Same? Mose? Mongoh.
Elose.
Eloose.
Eloh.
Elose?
Same?
Elose. Moh. Mongongoh.
Same? Moh.
Same?
Same.
Elose?
Elose.
Elongongongongose? Moh. Moose?
Same?
Same?
Elose.
Elongoooh.
Elongoongose? Mose. Moh.
Same.
Elose? Mose?
Eloh. Mongoh.
Elongose.
Same. Mose.
Same? Moh.
Elose? Mooh. Mongongose. Mose.
Elongoh.
Same? Moose? Mose? Moh.
Same. Moh.
Elongongongooh.
Elose. Mongose. Mongose.

I'm guessing you are trying to tell us you think Mongoose and Elohcin are on the same team?

Dada /ˈdɑːdɑː/ or Dadaism was an art movement of the European avant-garde in the early 20th century.

That said, I'm not voting for either.

[Spacedaisy]

TH, I did not voice any suspicion because I could not decide who I thought might be evil in the FZ vs. k4j death match. So I voted FZ in order to bring them into a tie. If you were making a case that I were the other team I could see why you were saying it (though you would be wrong inthat as well) but you are saying I was on a team with FZ and MP. It just does not make sense. And coming from you this surprises me to be frank.

Boogs... You keep talking about me and then suddenly drop me to vote Elo when people start disagreeing about the case against me. You do not look good to me right now my dear.

I have to vote right now. I won't be back in time from work. So I am going to vote Boogs because of what seems to be a serious case of bandwagoning/blendiness... *votes*

[Vompatti]

I'm hopping on the Boogs bandwagon (for strategic reasons).

[Russtifinko]

I just saw this and had to post it here.

Eye of Sauron Star Spotted by Planet-Hunting Camera

I KNEW IT!!

FZ. is on the poll D:

Yeah about that....please ignore. I can't fix it without resetting the poll. If anyone votes FH, their vote will not be counted and they will not receive gold for today.

[thellama73]

I'm voting Mongoose now. I've asked repeatedly for people to read her and give opinions but no one will, and that in itself seems fishy as a Moroccan bazaar to me.

[Leamiteo]

I don't understand your reasoning at all tbh. It seems to be too far of a stretch to me, contrived possibly?

"Contrived possibly"? What are you trying to say there?

It means that I think it is forced and it makes me distrustful of you.

[Leamiteo]

Llama has been on my watch list, and I think I am going to vote llama today. I cannot decide if Mongoose is bad or if llama is bad and trying to frame Mongoose or if both are bad. Some of the reasons why I am considering llama today:

In reference to the FZ vs. K4J head to head:

This is an odd head-to-head that I didn't forsee. I'm still voting for Mongoose though, because I think she is most culpable.

At this point, I would rather see ELoh go than either FZ or K4J, so I hope the remaining votes come in soon.

This last minute bandwagon does not bode well...

Then some of the posts after the lynch results:

Yes! I knew MP was distancing with someone! You're next, Dom!

Nice work FZ voters. I've never seen a game start this well before.

Does anyone still agree with me that the bandwagon was a bit odd though?

I do agree with you, and was surprised that FZ flipped baddie. Do you suppose the other bad team might have been protecting one of their own? But obvious, if so.

I'm torn. I could be reading this really wrong, but something has seemed off. I'm supposed to be working right now (shhh! don't tell my boss I'm playing a game! ). But I'll be in Chicago all weekend I'm doing a Color Run with some friends! and leaving directly from work. I'll have to vote really quickly before I hit the road.

How do others feel about llama at this point? Am I off? I don't know how I feel about Eloh, both sides seem persuasive, and that makes my decision hard. If I felt strongly that Eloh was bad I might back off llama a bit.

Anywho, back to work!!!!

[Epignosis]

Llama has been on my watch list, and I think I am going to vote llama today. I cannot decide if Mongoose is bad or if llama is bad and trying to frame Mongoose or if both are bad. Some of the reasons why I am considering llama today:

In reference to the FZ vs. K4J head to head:

This is an odd head-to-head that I didn't forsee. I'm still voting for Mongoose though, because I think she is most culpable.

At this point, I would rather see ELoh go than either FZ or K4J, so I hope the remaining votes come in soon.

This last minute bandwagon does not bode well...

Then some of the posts after the lynch results:

Yes! I knew MP was distancing with someone! You're next, Dom!

Nice work FZ voters. I've never seen a game start this well before.

Does anyone still agree with me that the bandwagon was a bit odd though?

I do agree with you, and was surprised that FZ flipped baddie. Do you suppose the other bad team might have been protecting one of their own? But obvious, if so.

I'm torn. I could be reading this really wrong, but something has seemed off. I'm supposed to be working right now (shhh! don't tell my boss I'm playing a game! ). But I'll be in Chicago all weekend I'm doing a Color Run with some friends! and leaving directly from work. I'll have to vote really quickly before I hit the road.

These aren't reasons. They're just quotes. You haven't expressed any reason why these quotes make llama suspicious to you. Those quotes you pulled could have said anything. The most you offer is that "something seemed off."

I could take five or six of things you've said, quote them, and then say "something seemed off."

How do others feel about llama at this point? Am I off? I don't know how I feel about Eloh, both sides seem persuasive, and that makes my decision hard. If I felt strongly that Eloh was bad I might back off llama a bit.

Anywho, back to work!!!!

If you felt strongly that Elohcin was bad, why would that cause you to back off llama a bit? What does one suspicion have to do with the other?

[thellama73]

Hi Leamiteo,

If I am trying to frame Mongoose, I am terrible at it, because no one but me has been voting for her. Seems like a dumb thing for me to do if I were bad.

I fully admit that I was wrong about FZ. She had me fooled, and I was surprised she flipped bad especially after that suspicious bandwagon. However, I did say earlier that I thought MP had mentioned one of his teammates and that she might be one of them. It was her subsequent conversation with me that convinced me it must be Dom or SD instead of her, and I have since decided that SD is probably civ as well.

Consider this, if I had known that FZ was bad, why would I have gone out of my way to say I was uneasy about the votes? My comment about the bandwagon came in after there was no way to save her, so I would just be setting myself up to look suspicious. In fact, I didn't know, which is why I said what I did. I hope this allays some of your suspicions. I would be happy to answer any other questions you have.

[Boogs]

I have a quick second to check in luckily. Okay, so because I decided to try Elohcin over Spacedaisy even though I said I suspect her as well, that makes me bad today? Interesting. Also, if the people who voted on me suspect me as bad, are you suggesting I am on the same Goblin team as MP? That's funny if so. I don't see how me voting second in the poll automatically diverts attention from players who have been talked about the past week and onto me all of a sudden because I choose to vote someone else based on good thread evidence Epignosis and others have made about Elohcin. I have waited on Daisy because I found her argument something to consider about why she would have helped get rid of 2 teammates (MP and FZ) when she would now be alone with just 1 person. I think when I first assumed after Day 1's result, it felt like that was what Mp was doing by throwing her under. But then with FZ gone also, it does make me original idea fade and not logical. That is why I am trying Elohcin today, I am considering again Daisy and Mongoose possibly being bad teammates like K4J is trying to say and I'm not sure if Elohcin is on that team or MP's.

This "Boogs bandwagon" Vompattii stated he jumped on pings me some about him also when Epignosis and I are the only ones who had voted and it feels he is trying to start one.

[thellama73]

Hey Boogs, while you're here, I noticed you voted for K4J on Day 1, but then on Day 2 when there was actually a chance of lynching her, you were nowhere to be found. What gives?

[Boogs]

I have to admit that the arguments for and against Elo (and for and against those who are for and against her ) are compelling, which means I really don't know at this point, and I'm probably not going to vote for her unless that changes. I've been kind of chasing other leads.

I went back and reread reywaS (short read... and I don't remember why, tbh), but I came out feeling good about him and not so much about at least one other person. There was a little-noticed exchange between reywaS, llama, and FZ that didn't leave me feeling good about llama. And llama's been kind of pushing things recently, which adds to that for me, though I seem to recall from my limited experience that he's an aggressive player. There were a couple of other things that pinged me on him in that read, but if you want chapter and verse, I'm going to have to do that tomorrow.

Also, I don't trust Boogs as far as I can throw him. Again, I will have to go back and read him, but his posts almost always come off as, what do we say around here, opportunistic and insincere? Perfect description, imo.

There's my limb. Join me if you'd like.

You've never played with me before dude lol

[Boogs]

Hey Boogs, while you're here, I noticed you voted for K4J on Day 1, but then on Day 2 when there was actually a chance of lynching her, you were nowhere to be found. What gives?

The Wood elf drink silenced me and unfortunately, my vote was not allowed to be cast. I was intending on Daisy at that point or FZ. The K4J was random on Day 1 because I have no idea on the first days who to ever vote for.

[thellama73]

Hey Boogs, while you're here, I noticed you voted for K4J on Day 1, but then on Day 2 when there was actually a chance of lynching her, you were nowhere to be found. What gives?

The Wood elf drink silenced me and unfortunately, my vote was not allowed to be cast. I was intending on Daisy at that point or FZ. The K4J was random on Day 1 because I have no idea on the first days who to ever vote for.

That's enough to satisfy me. Thanks!

[juliets]

Rest in peace Kyle.

Elo, who do you think could be on MP/FZ's team?

Not too sure. I think that Juliets may be. I think she could be bad b/c of the way she piggybacked Epi's suspicions and didn't have anything to add really. But I admit that isn't a huge amount to go on. I also think Epi may be bad but on the other team. And I think that Rey is right about the other baddie team trying to keep the focus on MP/FZ's team and off of themselves. I can see what people are saying about Mongoose being on the other baddie team as well.

You think I'm on team MP and FZ? I think you may have forgotten that the day MP was lynched I voted for him when he and two other people had 2 votes, giving him 3 votes, putting him out ahead of everyone else. And please explain how not adding to Epi's suspicion makes me bad? I think instead you suspect me for no other reason than I suspect you. And after getting after me for not adding anything to my suspicion of you, why do you make such a broad statement about Mongoose without adding anything of your own?

Also, am considering Elo, because I can't remember who pointed out her accusation of Juliet's and Epi having btsc this game. When it fact it was the champions game Juliets meant and Elo was part of this btsc! I need to read Eis case more thoroughly, but honestly that wild accusation made me wonder more than anything else said.

I guess I should have used sarcastic orange on the post you are talking about. I was trying to be funny. I knew they had BTSC in the champions game....I was there too

Elo, here is the post you are referencing:

And where have you had these conversations about me? BTSC perhaps? BTSC during THIS GAME perhaps? on the both of yuse.

That statement doesn't look like a post that you would have put in orange. It doesn't look remotely like sarcasm. Instead, it looks like the type of post you were making in Willow where you were more aggressive and turned out bad.

Also, this statement makes you seem somewhat desperate:

Epignosis is on and has yet to vote for me. This definitely makes me think he was just gauging my reaction to his suspicions.

As a person Elo I don't want to vote for you but nothing has happened since the last time I voted you to make me less suspicious. Instead, there have been things that just add to my suspicions. I'm going to hold on my vote for awhile just in case some big thing happens that causes me to change my mind.

[Captain Bunny Killer]

I have to admit that the arguments for and against Elo (and for and against those who are for and against her ) are compelling, which means I really don't know at this point, and I'm probably not going to vote for her unless that changes. I've been kind of chasing other leads.

I went back and reread reywaS (short read... and I don't remember why, tbh), but I came out feeling good about him and not so much about at least one other person. There was a little-noticed exchange between reywaS, llama, and FZ that didn't leave me feeling good about llama. And llama's been kind of pushing things recently, which adds to that for me, though I seem to recall from my limited experience that he's an aggressive player. There were a couple of other things that pinged me on him in that read, but if you want chapter and verse, I'm going to have to do that tomorrow.

Also, I don't trust Boogs as far as I can throw him. Again, I will have to go back and read him, but his posts almost always come off as, what do we say around here, opportunistic and insincere? Perfect description, imo.

There's my limb. Join me if you'd like.

You've never played with me before dude lol

I'm not a dude, dude.
Yes, that's true, but I also don't play often enough to put as much weight on past experience as others do. (That's why, as a side note, the Mongoose-just-doesn't-seem-like-herself case isn't enough for me, though I'm sure other things have been dug up on her.) I can still notice when posts seem to suggest a person who is conveniently following the whims of others. And, yes, someone asked for more on that. i'll have to try to give it a go. It just takes me forever, so hold your horses.

[Snow Dog]

Hey Boogs, while you're here, I noticed you voted for K4J on Day 1, but then on Day 2 when there was actually a chance of lynching her, you were nowhere to be found. What gives?

The Wood elf drink silenced me and unfortunately, my vote was not allowed to be cast. I was intending on Daisy at that point or FZ. The K4J was random on Day 1 because I have no idea on the first days who to ever vote for.

That's enough to satisfy me. Thanks!

But the gaoler does this....unless the drink copies this ability. Seems unusual for the same ability repeated on one team

[Snow Dog]

I have a quick second to check in luckily. Okay, so because I decided to try Elohcin over Spacedaisy even though I said I suspect her as well, that makes me bad today? Interesting. Also, if the people who voted on me suspect me as bad, are you suggesting I am on the same Goblin team as MP? That's funny if so. I don't see how me voting second in the poll automatically diverts attention from players who have been talked about the past week and onto me all of a sudden because I choose to vote someone else based on good thread evidence Epignosis and others have made about Elohcin. I have waited on Daisy because I found her argument something to consider about why she would have helped get rid of 2 teammates (MP and FZ) when she would now be alone with just 1 person. I think when I first assumed after Day 1's result, it felt like that was what Mp was doing by throwing her under. But then with FZ gone also, it does make me original idea fade and not logical. That is why I am trying Elohcin today, I am considering again Daisy and Mongoose possibly being bad teammates like K4J is trying to say and I'm not sure if Elohcin is on that team or MP's.

This "Boogs bandwagon" Vompattii stated he jumped on pings me some about him also when Epignosis and I are the only ones who had voted and it feels he is trying to start one.

Well he voted Llama the first time because Llama voted Mongoose. What's up with that? Usual Wombat behaviour or a smokescreen?

[thellama73]

I don't understand your reasoning at all tbh. It seems to be too far of a stretch to me, contrived possibly?

"Contrived possibly"? What are you trying to say there?

It means that I think it is forced and it makes me distrustful of you.

We should all always be distrustful of TH, because his baddie game is AMAZING. He always seems so helpful and thorough in his analysis, and he always fools me. Consequently, I never believe he is for real, no matter how civ he seems.

[Elohcin]

I don't understand your reasoning at all tbh. It seems to be too far of a stretch to me, contrived possibly?

"Contrived possibly"? What are you trying to say there?

It means that I think it is forced and it makes me distrustful of you.

We should all always be distrustful of TH, because his baddie game is AMAZING. He always seems so helpful and thorough in his analysis, and he always fools me. Consequently, I never believe he is for real, no matter how civ he seems.

I agree with this

[Marmot]

I'm voting Mongoose now. I've asked repeatedly for people to read her and give opinions but no one will, and that in itself seems fishy as a Moroccan bazaar to me.

Yep, everyone must have baddie BTSC with the Mongoose. I will give her a reread today if I get a chance. I meant to last night (and had another post ready to submit), but my ipad died before I could submit.

I also meant to ask llama. Why do you seem so certain that Mongoose is of the Misty Mountains Goblins if she is bad? Why not Moria, or why not Smaug, or why not even the Mayor?

[Turnip Head]

Llama, I reread Mongoose, and nothing stood out to me tbh. Though I also didn't realize how talkative she's been... I think that's the only thing that stood out, I'm used to Mongoose participating but not being so active especially at the beginning of a game. I have also never seen Mongoose's baddie game before. What makes you think this looks like her baddie game opposed to her civ game?

[thellama73]

I'm voting Mongoose now. I've asked repeatedly for people to read her and give opinions but no one will, and that in itself seems fishy as a Moroccan bazaar to me.

Yep, everyone must have baddie BTSC with the Mongoose. I will give her a reread today if I get a chance. I meant to last night (and had another post ready to submit), but my ipad died before I could submit.

I also meant to ask llama. Why do you seem so certain that Mongoose is of the Misty Mountains Goblins if she is bad? Why not Moria, or why not Smaug, or why not even the Mayor?

She might be Smaug or Indie, but I think the refusal of literally all players to look closely at her indicates that at least a few are on her team.

I don't think she can be a Moria Goblin because the timing of her vote for FZ doesn't make sense if she is.

[Lizzy]

Llama, I reread Mongoose, and nothing stood out to me tbh. Though I also didn't realize how talkative she's been... I think that's the only thing that stood out, I'm used to Mongoose participating but not being so active especially at the beginning of a game. I have also never seen Mongoose's baddie game before. What makes you think this looks like her baddie game opposed to her civ game?

I'm not Llama, but I wholeheartedly agreed with this observation of his:

Notice the subtle implantation of the seed that I am not to be trusted. Not an accusation, just hints, almost subliminal remarks designed to undermine me in the eyes of others. Very clever.

... but as far as VAL was concerned, particularly some assumed skills of mine:

Random: Matt is being chatty. And I like that. Sometimes he is like that when he is being managed on a team (Lizzy has handled him quite well in the past, for instance), but I think it's more than he was called out (and Vomperdoodle) for not being as helpful as he could. Matt's a realllllly smart guy, so I'm hoping it's just him feeling comfortable enough to participate more. Mattmatt, I hope you don't take offense of any of that. I know it doesn't sound very polite to insinuate someone is being coached, but that's not precisely what I mean (V&A wouldn't mind being coached by L, if you know what they mean).

However, I'm not fully sold on this to vote for her.

[thellama73]

Llama, I reread Mongoose, and nothing stood out to me tbh. Though I also didn't realize how talkative she's been... I think that's the only thing that stood out, I'm used to Mongoose participating but not being so active especially at the beginning of a game. I have also never seen Mongoose's baddie game before. What makes you think this looks like her baddie game opposed to her civ game?

Thank you, TH!

I think her civ game is more genuinely helpful and productive at baddie hunting as opposed to the faux-helpful, no real suspicions version we are seeing here. It's a hallmark of the laziness (for lack of a better term) that comes from not really needing to deduce alignments.

[juliets]

I'm voting Mongoose now. I've asked repeatedly for people to read her and give opinions but no one will, and that in itself seems fishy as a Moroccan bazaar to me.

Yep, everyone must have baddie BTSC with the Mongoose. I will give her a reread today if I get a chance. I meant to last night (and had another post ready to submit), but my ipad died before I could submit.

I also meant to ask llama. Why do you seem so certain that Mongoose is of the Misty Mountains Goblins if she is bad? Why not Moria, or why not Smaug, or why not even the Mayor?

She might be Smaug or Indie, but I think the refusal of literally all players to look closely at her indicates that at least a few are on her team.

I don't think she can be a Moria Goblin because the timing of her vote for FZ doesn't make sense if she is.

I actually did re-read her llama and I did see the non-commitalness that you were talking about. This early in the game though it's not surprising to me that someone would not show strong commitment. I guess in the end, it's just not enough to make me vote her. Your strength of commitment though may prompt me to give her another re-read, though I want to make sure I'm not trying too hard to see something there. Today however I'm voting Elo unless something convinces me to do otherwise in the next hour.

[thellama73]

Thank you, juliets. I don't mind people deciding to vote elsewhere. I just wanted them to look, and was disturbed when it appeared that they weren't.

[thellama73]

Oh, and she voted for Eloh without comment.

[Marmot]

Oh, and she voted for Eloh without comment.

Hmm...

Well I was planning on voting Elo too. Still three hours to decide though.

[Captain Bunny Killer]

I have a quick second to check in luckily. Okay, so because I decided to try Elohcin over Spacedaisy even though I said I suspect her as well, that makes me bad today? Interesting. Also, if the people who voted on me suspect me as bad, are you suggesting I am on the same Goblin team as MP? That's funny if so. I don't see how me voting second in the poll automatically diverts attention from players who have been talked about the past week and onto me all of a sudden because I choose to vote someone else based on good thread evidence Epignosis and others have made about Elohcin. I have waited on Daisy because I found her argument something to consider about why she would have helped get rid of 2 teammates (MP and FZ) when she would now be alone with just 1 person. I think when I first assumed after Day 1's result, it felt like that was what Mp was doing by throwing her under. But then with FZ gone also, it does make me original idea fade and not logical. That is why I am trying Elohcin today, I am considering again Daisy and Mongoose possibly being bad teammates like K4J is trying to say and I'm not sure if Elohcin is on that team or MP's.

This "Boogs bandwagon" Vompattii stated he jumped on pings me some about him also when Epignosis and I are the only ones who had voted and it feels he is trying to start one.

First of all, who said you're suspected because you switched your opinion of Daisy? No, seriously, I couldn't figure out who said that.

Secondly, no one said you were on MP's team (unless I missed that too). I think it's funny that you're defending against an imagined accusation.

Thirdly, if you switched to Elo due to "good thread evidence," you never said so before this. You switched because you believe Epi (or at least that's what you said).

As said earlier, I have to vote tonight because I may/may not be able to check tomorrow. I'm going to try to take a chance and believe Elohcin to be on the other Goblin team. (votes Elohcin) here's to us getting 3 baddies in a row!

Hmmm you think they are on the other team? Something to consider. Thanks for trying to tell us your suspicions for today. Epignosis seems to feel strongly that Elohcin is bad... But idk. If he knows his wife as well as he says, it's worth a try I suppose. I still feel something is going on with SD if not MP's teammate, then possibly on the other Goblin team. She just pings me and I can't play my finger quite on it.

[Despite your own suspicion for Daisy which you have your own original (I think?) thoughts on.]

Moh.
Elose? Mose. Mooh. Mooongose? Mongoh.
Same?
Same.
Elongose.
Same?
Elongoh.
Same?
Eloose.
Eloh.
Same? Mose? Mongoh.
Elose.
Eloose.
Eloh.
Elose?
Same?
Elose. Moh. Mongongoh.
Same? Moh.
Same?
Same.
Elose?
Elose.
Elongongongongose? Moh. Moose?
Same?
Same?
Elose.
Elongoooh.
Elongoongose? Mose. Moh.
Same.
Elose? Mose?
Eloh. Mongoh.
Elongose.
Same. Mose.
Same? Moh.
Elose? Mooh. Mongongose. Mose.
Elongoh.
Same? Moose? Mose? Moh.
Same. Moh.
Elongongongooh.
Elose. Mongose. Mongose.

I'm guessing you are trying to tell us you think Mongoose and Elohcin are on the same team?

Is this the good thread evidence you recognized before this?
Because before that you thought the a vote on Elo was suspicious.

Nice work FZ voters. I've never seen a game start this well before.

Does anyone still agree with me that the bandwagon was a bit odd though?

I definitely do. It was all crazy back and forth all of a sudden for both FZ and K4J. Keeping my eyes open

Two things that struck me as odd during this lynch were:
a) I felt like the Elohcin thing was kind of random and I'm surprised people voted for her. Just because she randomized? Idk.. Felt weird to me.

B) BWT vote on himself... It just stood out odd as hell to me when there were names out there that deserved suspicion and he voted himself. I saw Bea recently do that when I hosted Pokemon, but she was Indy still so I don't know if that tells me something about BWT being Indy also, or him being bad and not wanting to get his hands dirty. Just rubbed me the wrong way honestly. I didn't see anyone else I believe mention his vote.

But let's go back and look at the record (Just click on Boogs's in topic. It's only one page.)

First you voted randomly (and I admit you said it was random) for k4j.

MP was lynched, and then you said he pinged you... after he was dead.

Then you picked the one easy target from MP's personal fireball of doom, the unexplained and sudden vote on Daisy. This suspicion had already been discussed before MP went down, but this is the first you mention it, after MP flips bad.

Then you said almost nothing (except a video) until FZ went down. Conveniently, you claimed in your next post that you had been pinged by both Daisy and FZ, which, again, you had never said before. And, in fact, you didn't vote at all that time.

Then you responded to MM's comment about the crazy k4j/FZ pile up (seen above) with the Elo comment and a ping by a self-voter (another understandable, though easy, target).

Then you said, "Cool, JC, I get the Elo thing now." (paraphrase).

Then Epi eyed you for your bogus-looking claim of a FZ suspicion, and other people picked up on it (Juliets and Lizzy). You said it was elves drink causing an effect that we no the wood elf gaoler can cause, but if it's true of the drink, we don't know. But you stuck with your story (I gotta give you that).

Then you agreed with TH's noting how MP and FZ interacted with Daisy, according to INH's chart. I feel the need to quote that one.

I felt that way too before and after MP's lynch in particular. I think he was throwing her under the bus to distance himself. She's still on my radar for possibly getting my vote today. I also have to consider some last minute voters on the back and forth votes with FZ and K4J. I think there was some initial saving possibly from the other Goblin team for K4J possibly also. Will examine it when I get free time during work today and decide who I want to cast a vote for after that.

Wait, what? You felt that way about Daisy before MP's lynch? You never even voiced any suspicion of him until afterwards. Yet you theorized that he was throwing a baddie teammate under the bus? An event you never took note of until after his lynch?

Odd. Very very odd.

And this is why I don't do this often, I'm too freakin detailed. And this isn't even my only suspicion, but I try to answer when someone asks for suspicion evidence.

[Captain Bunny Killer]

I have two amendatory notes.

1) Apparently the Daisy suspicion wasn't original, since, as I observed later, you didn't even notice that in thread until MP was dead.

2) When I noted your comment on k4j's wacky post as being your possible thread evidence, I did not mean to say that there was no evidence (I think I've already stated that I don't know what to think about that). I meant that you never recognized or said anything about good evidence in-thread except k4j's desperate attempt to communicate... until now.

[juliets]

I have to go do my workout and then spend time getting ready for my Jeopardy game (ya'll should come sometime) so I'm going to go ahead and vote.

As I said earlier, nothing has changed in my suspicion of Elocin so I am voting for her for the following reasons:

This post outlines several points about the logic in one of Eloh's posts.

Here it's pointed out that Eloh's good gut pings have not led her to suspect anyone and her wording of "increasingly wondering" about Mongoose is not backed up by her posts to that date.

Also, I pointed out in my post from this morning that Elo names me as a suspect because I suspect her and is trying to back pedal on a post she made and is doing what she accuses me of doing. In addition, her tone in this game sounds baddie when i compare it with another fairly recent game where she was a baddie. I understand tone can be hard to read sometimes but her tone in that post takes me back to her other baddie game.

Finally, I think we've talked enough about Epi's opinion in all this but I haven't seen anything that counters his claim that he knows Elo is bad. And just as a reminder, he has only been wrong once.

If I am wrong about Elo I understand I'm accountable for my vote. It's not Epi's fault I'm voting for her, I'm making the decision based on the evidence available.

CBK - you present a compelling case on Boogs. I'm going to have to take another look at him in lieu of some of the things you point out.

[Leamiteo]

Llama has been on my watch list, and I think I am going to vote llama today. I cannot decide if Mongoose is bad or if llama is bad and trying to frame Mongoose or if both are bad. Some of the reasons why I am considering llama today:

In reference to the FZ vs. K4J head to head:

This is an odd head-to-head that I didn't forsee. I'm still voting for Mongoose though, because I think she is most culpable.

At this point, I would rather see ELoh go than either FZ or K4J, so I hope the remaining votes come in soon.

This last minute bandwagon does not bode well...

Then some of the posts after the lynch results:

Yes! I knew MP was distancing with someone! You're next, Dom!

Nice work FZ voters. I've never seen a game start this well before.

Does anyone still agree with me that the bandwagon was a bit odd though?

I do agree with you, and was surprised that FZ flipped baddie. Do you suppose the other bad team might have been protecting one of their own? But obvious, if so.

I'm torn. I could be reading this really wrong, but something has seemed off. I'm supposed to be working right now (shhh! don't tell my boss I'm playing a game! ). But I'll be in Chicago all weekend I'm doing a Color Run with some friends! and leaving directly from work. I'll have to vote really quickly before I hit the road.

These aren't reasons. They're just quotes. You haven't expressed any reason why these quotes make llama suspicious to you. Those quotes you pulled could have said anything. The most you offer is that "something seemed off."

I could take five or six of things you've said, quote them, and then say "something seemed off."

How do others feel about llama at this point? Am I off? I don't know how I feel about Eloh, both sides seem persuasive, and that makes my decision hard. If I felt strongly that Eloh was bad I might back off llama a bit.

Anywho, back to work!!!!

If you felt strongly that Elohcin was bad, why would that cause you to back off llama a bit? What does one suspicion have to do with the other?

Sorry, I'm at work and supposed to be, well, working. I am doing a shoddy job at building a case in brief, hurried bursts. I can see that this makes me look bad. My point was with the quotes that llama seemed weirdly against the FZ vs. K4J, almost in a defensive way, like a teammate may be. The point about Eloh was that I have one vote, I feel wishy-washy about both. If I felt strongly about Eloh, then I would vote there, but at that moment didn't. So that was me answering to the thread why I would place my vote with llama and not Eloh. Clear as mud?

@Llama, thanks for the explanation. This makes me feel better hearing your reasoning, and I totally get it. We're shooting in the dark here trying to find baddies and it's early yet. I'll postpone voting for you until you give me a hard and fast reason to suspect you.

I don't understand your reasoning at all tbh. It seems to be too far of a stretch to me, contrived possibly?

"Contrived possibly"? What are you trying to say there?

It means that I think it is forced and it makes me distrustful of you.

We should all always be distrustful of TH, because his baddie game is AMAZING. He always seems so helpful and thorough in his analysis, and he always fools me. Consequently, I never believe he is for real, no matter how civ he seems.

*gulp* This makes me nervous, because toward the beginning TH made me feel secure that he was either civ or indy, but now I'm not so sure...