Overtime Mafia [Post-Game]

[Alison]

Let's say I give you credit for exeing Syn. Why should I believe this makes you town? From the perspective of a mafia Esooa, you bus there every time. If you exe a townie and survive the night, you get killed D2 no question, and Syn isn't exactly going to clutch the game out. If you bus him you can gather enough cred to make it to endgame. Show me why you're disincentivized to bus Syn as mafia if you want me to believe that voting Syn makes you town.

[Alison]

It is very easy to see why someone who has many scum leans would prefer to exe someone they have began to believe is slightly more townie as well as is a claimed PR. Basically every point you have is either extremely invalid or a lie

I'm not asking why ted voted away from you. I'm suggesting that you've done nothing to garner the rapid trust he seems to have in you. @tedxtr, what did Esooa do that made her seem so townie all of a sudden?

[Esooa]

Let's say I give you credit for exeing Syn. Why should I believe this makes you town? From the perspective of a mafia Esooa, you bus there every time. If you exe a townie and survive the night, you get killed D2 no question, and Syn isn't exactly going to clutch the game out. If you bus him you can gather enough cred to make it to endgame. Show me why you're disincentivized to bus Syn as mafia if you want me to believe that voting Syn makes you town.

Pretty simple: I've hard claimed PR. I will get cc'ed if I'm fake claiming. Also, with how much suspicion is already on me, I see no reason to not just get a townie killed then die the next day. Much better than getting a mafia killed. Regardless, I don't really care if you think I'm confirmed town or anything else, but the fact you're literally stuck on it, while having zero actual reads rather than a contrived idea about me possibly bussing and an entry post read which the explanation of is "gut," makes zero sense.

[Alison]

I'm alive specifically to kill you today. Why do you not think I was left alive so that you die today, and then I'm scumread the day after or just killed that night?

Are you suggesting that the mafia intentionally left a claimed doctor alive in order to cast suspicion on a slot that's already widely suspected? They'd be taking on an awful lot of risk of you protecting someone and both clearing yourself + the person you healed (and of course denying them an NK), all to cast suspicion on me.

Why not just kill you at night and let me look bad off your flip along with your legacy?

[Alison]

Let's say I give you credit for exeing Syn. Why should I believe this makes you town? From the perspective of a mafia Esooa, you bus there every time. If you exe a townie and survive the night, you get killed D2 no question, and Syn isn't exactly going to clutch the game out. If you bus him you can gather enough cred to make it to endgame. Show me why you're disincentivized to bus Syn as mafia if you want me to believe that voting Syn makes you town.

Pretty simple: I've hard claimed PR. I will get cc'ed if I'm fake claiming. Also, with how much suspicion is already on me, I see no reason to not just get a townie killed then die the next day. Much better than getting a mafia killed. Regardless, I don't really care if you think I'm confirmed town or anything else, but the fact you're literally stuck on it, while having zero actual reads rather than a contrived idea about me possibly bussing and an entry post read which the explanation of is "gut," makes zero sense.

There are two doctors in the game. Counterclaims aren't in play here. I think if you're mafia buddies with Syn the correct line is always to bus because it gives you the best chance of winning. That isn't a contrived idea - one mafia dies either way, and this line sets you up to go deep. It seems like a better line to me.

I'm not sure why you're accusing me of having no reads. I've made my reads on tutuu, ted and LC clear, and I'm trying to figure out Marmot.

What's wrong with suspecting you based on my entry post read? It's not a gut read, either.

[Esooa]

I like how you bring about so many points as to why mafia wouldn't want to do what I suggested, yet you see no issue in bringing about even more to explain why mafia!esooa is a possibility, lol. Anyways, the primary reason to not kill me at night is because I said kill you, then kill me if you flip town. If you die and flip town mafia then would probably try to push me. Also, one reason to support this is the night kill. Mac was said by a few people to be the most likely busser, however mafia still wants to kill a voter there. So their options are:

me, which I haven't been killed presumably for the reasons stated before,

Ted, which is in my opinion the most townie of all the voters,

Sig, also very townie and definitely will be put in my town core,

and Mac, who was the most suspicious.

All in all, the kill on mac, imo, points to a medic dodge.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Is esooa not angleshot town?

[Esooa]

There are two doctors in the game. Counterclaims aren't in play here. I think if you're mafia buddies with Syn the correct line is always to bus because it gives you the best chance of winning. That isn't a contrived idea - one mafia dies either way, and this line sets you up to go deep. It seems like a better line to me.

Yes, there are two...? Do you think that means counterclaims don't exist?

[Alison]

Anyways, the primary reason to not kill me at night is because I said kill you, then kill me if you flip town.

If that's their plan, they'd be giving you two nights to use your doctor ability unopposed. That doesn't seem like a great idea, and I'm skeptical that it's what we should be assuming the mafia is doing.

[Alison]

Is esooa not angleshot town?

If anything Esooa would be angleshot scum because Martin would give the mafia team much greater compensation if the mafia role cop was exed over the town doctor due to host error, IMO.

I'm sticking to in-game reasons for scumreading her though.

[Alison]

There are two doctors in the game. Counterclaims aren't in play here. I think if you're mafia buddies with Syn the correct line is always to bus because it gives you the best chance of winning. That isn't a contrived idea - one mafia dies either way, and this line sets you up to go deep. It seems like a better line to me.

Yes, there are two...? Do you think that means counterclaims don't exist?

It's never correct to CC a claimed doctor if you're doc in this setup. You expose yourself and don't prove anything.

[Esooa]

There are two doctors in the game. Counterclaims aren't in play here. I think if you're mafia buddies with Syn the correct line is always to bus because it gives you the best chance of winning. That isn't a contrived idea - one mafia dies either way, and this line sets you up to go deep. It seems like a better line to me.

Yes, there are two...? Do you think that means counterclaims don't exist?

It's never correct to CC a claimed doctor if you're doc in this setup. You expose yourself and don't prove anything.

The claims will come out, either from claiming normally or flips. Do you think it's really possible for a hard fake claimed PR to go deep in a setup with flips?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I mean we don’t know if he did give them more compensation or not

But ok, sure. I think I disagree but I can’t pretend I’ve been fully engaged

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I also agree with alison that a doc claim shouldn’t be CCed right now. Like...there’s two docs alive still yeah? CCing one claim has a good chance of just leading to both docs being outed

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I also agree with alison that a doc claim shouldn’t be CCed right now. Like...there’s two docs alive still yeah? CCing one claim has a good chance of just leading to both docs being outed

This is in a vacuum from the doc POV

[Esooa]

Also, in what world does Syn get bussed and die instead of me?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I think I’m just gonna sheep Mac’s LC and marmot solve, seems like the optimal play here

[Alison]

I mean the simpler way to prove it is to just point out that you were not in fact CC'd. Why would you be not CC'd as town, but CC'd as scum? The other doctor(s) don't know your alignment.

linki: Why is Syn unbussable?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

9/2 with both docs a scum RC and strongman
7/2
5/2
3/2

Worst case we have time to kill through Mac’s solve and if it’s 100% wrong (which seems unlikely tbh) then we can figure out alison/esooa if they’re both alive

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Also am I insane or is LC holding a doc claim?

[Esooa]

I mean the simpler way to prove it is to just point out that you were not in fact CC'd. Why would you be not CC'd as town, but CC'd as scum? The other doctor(s) don't know your alignment.

linki: Why is Syn unbussable?

Why am I unbussable? In what world does Syn, as mafia, come into the thread just to post a read list where I'm his only read then he votes for me THEN I BUSS him???? This makes literally no sense, do you think he just comes into the thread to buss me becuase we disagreed with pineapple on pizza in mafia chat or something, then I tried to buss him back?

Also, I have never assumed I would have been cc'ed yesterday, I am saying the fact that I am a hard claimed PR is directly contrary to your idea of me bussing to go deep. I can NOT go deep as a fake claim with flips on, people will claim before the game ends

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’m too tired to tell if he’s being serious lmao

[Esooa]

9/2 with both docs a scum RC and strongman
7/2
5/2
3/2

Worst case we have time to kill through Mac’s solve and if it’s 100% wrong (which seems unlikely tbh) then we can figure out alison/esooa if they’re both alive

I promise you Mac's solve involved exe'ing Alison, I don't really care what you think

[Esooa]

how to get double cleared 101

cya tomorrow

Agreed.

Imma go ahead and say all the Syn voters are civs, with the exception of possibly Mac, but that heavy tinfoil read given the number of mafia members.

We should look over who was around near EOD but not really doing anything and sticking with the Esooa wagon as well as maybe more inactive people. We probably have a mafia member on Mac rather than Esooa.

I'd bet with two people left one is more inactive and one is active.

For active players I'd be eyeing Tuutuu, Alison, or Marsh in order. For more inactive I'm going to go with LC

For protections I'd suggest both Doctors use their shots on players who voted for Syn.

I agree with these reads very strongly. I don't think mac is the exe tomorrow. Also I don't think falcon is maf cause he jumped in here to vote me but then removed it and basically barely knew what was going on. I'm not sure on how to read marmot but honestly at this point I'm going to stop agreeing with people who know Alison and just say her day one was very scummy. She had no reason to not reevaluate on me (imo but I could be biased on this), but her read on Ted especially was just bad, and not in a townie way. Ted is basically ride or die to me now btw

All of this is accurate

Mac agreeing with me when saying Alison was very scummy, if you don't know why

[Alison]

Why am I unbussable? In what world does Syn, as mafia, come into the thread just to post a read list where I'm his only read then he votes for me THEN I BUSS him???? This makes literally no sense, do you think he just comes into the thread to buss me becuase we disagreed with pineapple on pizza in mafia chat or something, then I tried to buss him back?

Also, I have never assumed I would have been cc'ed yesterday, I am saying the fact that I am a hard claimed PR is directly contrary to your idea of me bussing to go deep. I can NOT go deep as a fake claim with flips on, people will claim before the game ends

First part - the obvious answer is that you saw the way the wind was blowing and instructed Syn to distance from you in mafia chat. So Syn drops in and votes you. This is not as "can never be W/W" an interaction as you're making it out to be and you've played enough mafia to know this.

Second part is a good point.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

9/2 with both docs a scum RC and strongman
7/2
5/2
3/2

Worst case we have time to kill through Mac’s solve and if it’s 100% wrong (which seems unlikely tbh) then we can figure out alison/esooa if they’re both alive

I promise you Mac's solve involved exe'ing Alison, I don't really care what you think

His two strongest scumreads AFAICT were LC and marmot

[Alison]

If Mac wanted me dead he'd actually push me, not agree with someone else's post that had 10 different takes in it, one of which is "I think Alison is scummy".

[Esooa]

9/2 with both docs a scum RC and strongman
7/2
5/2
3/2

Worst case we have time to kill through Mac’s solve and if it’s 100% wrong (which seems unlikely tbh) then we can figure out alison/esooa if they’re both alive

I promise you Mac's solve involved exe'ing Alison, I don't really care what you think

His two strongest scumreads AFAICT were LC and marmot

I'll explain, sorry if the don't really care what you think was too harsh I'm kinda frustrated right now because if Alison is indeed town I'll be really rly sad. But, he was talking about where to go after Alison. If you look at the progression of night chat and the post I quoted above, he agreed Alison was very scummy.

[Alison]

I'll explain, sorry if the don't really care what you think was too harsh I'm kinda frustrated right now because if Alison is indeed town I'll be really rly sad. But, he was talking about where to go after Alison. If you look at the progression of night chat and the post I quoted above, he agreed Alison was very scummy.

You're sprinkling in an awful lot of "if Alison is town"s for someone who's repping a 100% certainty scumread on me.

[Esooa]

Re-reading night chat, maybe I was mistaken on it. It's possible he didn't include Alison so sheep him if you want. Alison is the correct exe regardless though. And yes, I'm saying if you're town, I'm the most obv town player in this game and town players say "if someone's" town in the game all the time so if you want to accuse me on some kind of edge case scenario scum slip you're welcome to

[Alison]

I'd be down to be exed if you want, on the condition that everyone else agree to turbo Esooa the moment I flip green.

[Alison]

9/2 with both docs a scum RC and strongman
7/2
5/2
3/2

Worst case we have time to kill through Mac’s solve and if it’s 100% wrong (which seems unlikely tbh) then we can figure out alison/esooa if they’re both alive

I'm thinking about this. Why not reverse the order and resolve us two first? LC/Marmot aren't going anywhere, and resolving us now seems better than resolving us at F5 - there's more room for error.

[Esooa]

By the way, @Long Con has claimed doctor. So if you want to get it solved, you can have him confirm his claim and then at that point with 2 doctor claims, assuming one is fake, the last should come out. Which either 1. won't happen or 2. will be a suicide from mafia. So I welcome this if you want to do that to solve too.

[Alison]

I'm not convinced that claim was real for several reasons but I'm happy to allow LC to clarify if he's maintaining his claim before stating those reasons.

[Esooa]

/shrug, not aware of the format so if you want him to just float an awkward claim I'm fine with that, but I don't mind having a mass claim either

[Alison]

We are not mass claiming. I'm going to wait for LC to confirm if he's locking in the claim or not.

[Esooa]

I mostly wouldn't mind one because it will end with 2 hard claims, one being me, and me being completely confirmed town. Dealing with thinking I'm mafia while I'm the most blatant town here is not the most enjoyable

[Alison]

I mostly wouldn't mind one because it will end with 2 hard claims, one being me, and me being completely confirmed town. Dealing with thinking I'm mafia while I'm the most blatant town here is not the most enjoyable

The only person who's actively suspecting you, and I'm your top scumread.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

9/2 with both docs a scum RC and strongman
7/2
5/2
3/2

Worst case we have time to kill through Mac’s solve and if it’s 100% wrong (which seems unlikely tbh) then we can figure out alison/esooa if they’re both alive

I'm thinking about this. Why not reverse the order and resolve us two first? LC/Marmot aren't going anywhere, and resolving us now seems better than resolving us at F5 - there's more room for error.

I’m not convinced on the difference check so it seems better to me to test Mac’s solve first

[Esooa]

I mostly wouldn't mind one because it will end with 2 hard claims, one being me, and me being completely confirmed town. Dealing with thinking I'm mafia while I'm the most blatant town here is not the most enjoyable

And btw, Alison, this post is also an invitation to you to hard claim when ever you want

[Alison]

9/2 with both docs a scum RC and strongman
7/2
5/2
3/2

Worst case we have time to kill through Mac’s solve and if it’s 100% wrong (which seems unlikely tbh) then we can figure out alison/esooa if they’re both alive

I'm thinking about this. Why not reverse the order and resolve us two first? LC/Marmot aren't going anywhere, and resolving us now seems better than resolving us at F5 - there's more room for error.

I’m not convinced on the difference check so it seems better to me to test Mac’s solve first

ok

[Alison]

I mostly wouldn't mind one because it will end with 2 hard claims, one being me, and me being completely confirmed town. Dealing with thinking I'm mafia while I'm the most blatant town here is not the most enjoyable

And btw, Alison, this post is also an invitation to you to hard claim when ever you want

I'm not making any claims at this point in time.

[Esooa]

hahahaha

[tedxtr]

this Alison / Esooa talk doesn’t help at all. Alison’s gonna be the default yeet for the day and wasting time arguing with them doesn’t do anything.

Ted hasn't posted yet today, but he's voted. I don't like that.

Long Con is sheeping, but I can't blame him since I sheeped him yesterday.

Marmot, are you saying I’m scum because I didn’t make my vote acknowledged in thread? Why’s it such a scummy thing?

[tedxtr]

and also, if you can, you’ve read the entire D1 thread, right? (to marmot)

[tedxtr]

it was supposed to say answer if you can

don’t really have much thoughts beyond what I’ve already said

[sig]

This Allison/essoa thing is silly, Mac was killed since he was one of the four who voted syn, probably the most active besides essoa, and wasn't being scum read. Pair that with the fact essoa was probably protected by the other docter I'd not have shot her either. A doctor isn't a cop doesn't need to be hit right away.

I still think tuutuu is scrambling a bit, her tone has just seemed off since the flip.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’m locking sig town and never reconsidering

[tutuu]

I agree; he doesnt seem to realize mafia has a strongman and i believe him

[Alison]

We can probably get there with a town core of like tutuu/falcon/nanook/sig regardless of who the last two mafia are