Overtime Mafia [Post-Game]

[sig]

Yo @sig, talk to me about your reads. You're voting for me and LC. LC is also voting for me. Do you think we're scummates?

I'm literally voting for whatever the counter wagon to Alison may be, LC was my other big scum lean. I see he claimed so I'll be moving my vote from there.

I'd much prefer to lynch tuutuu. She tried to save syn. She was one of the people Mac was going after and she's contributing to this Allison/esuaa nonsense

[sig]

I want everyone to explain to me their logic for the Allison vote. She literally started saying we should lynch her before she got any attention correct? Even without this the original scum strategy doesn't make sense. Though now I see she's trying to save herself so maybe I'm missing something and need to reevaluate

[sig]

@Alison what happened to your conviction on Essua.

[Alison]

[VOTE: alison] aubergine

Here you go. tutuu, this is a better course of action because the weight of the suspicion against me is sufficiently heavy and the people believing it are sufficiently convinced so that I'm unlikely to avoid being exed today. By doing it this way, I'm able to properly deliver a legacy/solve and discuss it with others. And, if the theory about the mafia killing Mac to try to get me and Esooa to self destruct is correct, then it may have saved the doctor for an additional night, as well.

Anyway, obviously all this is predicated on no counterclaim of doc from anyone else, and since we have two hardclaims if you are indeed a doc you should claim to expose that there's a liar.

[sig]

Esooa* rip my spelling skills this game

[sig]

I'm very salty at everyone here right now very very salty.

[Alison]

!	Message from: Alison

@Alison what happened to your conviction on Essua.

She's mech confirmed town unless a third player claims doc dude. It doesn't matter how suspicious i thought she was before if she can prove she's PR.

[sig]

!	Message from: Alison

@Alison what happened to your conviction on Essua.

She's mech confirmed town unless a third player claims doc dude. It doesn't matter how suspicious i thought she was before if she can prove she's PR.

.....

[Alison]

No idea how that BBcode got in there but it looks fun.

[Esooa]

Sig can't you just like, read the posts that were put in the night chat lol I hate all of this people asking stuff that's in thread to be explained

[Esooa]

Anyways I still stick to wanting to vote Wilgy if not Alison. Honestly I'm just confused why Alison believed I was scum so strongly for very flimsy reasons. I thought the only way she would have believed her reasons is if she's the doctor and had a cc to me but now Alison's play makes even less sense to me than before

[Esooa]

Alison can you explain your read on wiggly

[DrWilgy]

How much longer until EoD?

[tedxtr]

full disclosure for people that asked:

my alison read is straight up them being indiscernible from an outed wolf

guess I'd prefer Marmot in a vacuum because I have actual reasons there, but Alison should be flipped too. pretty much where i stand.

@DrWilgy

[MartinGG99]

How much longer until EoD?

At the time of this reply, just under 24 hours until EoD2.

[Marmot]

I want everyone to explain to me their logic for the Allison vote. She literally started saying we should lynch her before she got any attention correct? Even without this the original scum strategy doesn't make sense. Though now I see she's trying to save herself so maybe I'm missing something and need to reevaluate

It's a counter wagon to me.

[Marmot]

Here's my proposal. Exe me, and before you do, listen to my words, and engage with them, and treat them as though they were true. Since I'm guaranteed to die regardless, you are all going to ignore what I say if I flip red anyway. But when I flip green you will be glad you took the chance to talk to me when I'm still alive. Proceeding on the assumption that Esooa + LC are indeed the docs:

My towncore is as follows: the docs/tutuu/Falcon/sig. Obviously re-evaluate if one of them drops off sharply, but this is where I'm at right now.

If I haven't miscleared one of them, the mafia is in Marmot/Wilgy/ted, and if there's two there then we have auto. Now, my personal read on these three is ted -> Marmot -> Wilgy for exe order, but I think Marmot -> ted -> Wilgy is acceptable if you want to give ted some credit for being on the Syn wagon, or if you want to respect Mac's solve. I will say that I think Wilgy is by far the towniest player of the three and I nearly towncored him. I will also say that if I'm misclearing someone in the towncore it's most likely sig, as the other clears are stronger.

In a world where Alison is scum, after reading this post, I now think one of the "docs" is actually scum partners with Al. Probably not esooa, so it'd be either Tutuu or Long Con.

Although I do find it odd that Alison doesn't categorize tutuu as a doc here. Tmi?

[Alison]

Alison can you explain your read on wiggly

It feels like he's trying kinda hard to solve the game. I think specifically the way he engaged with ted was good and authentic, and my experience with Wilgy is that he tends to slank more as scum (see: Making Friends). He also slanks as town sometimes, but there's little bursts of effort that shows he has a real townie mindset, whereas when he's scum he just hard trolls/open wolfs

[Alison]

He's still in my POE because he hasn't done enough to get towncored, but he's the least suspicious person in it.

[Esooa]

full disclosure for people that asked:

my alison read is straight up them being indiscernible from an outed wolf

guess I'd prefer Marmot in a vacuum because I have actual reasons there, but Alison should be flipped too. pretty much where i stand.

@DrWilgy

I agree that she isn't discernible. Do you think it's possible she's town here? What do you think of wiggly?

[Alison]

full disclosure for people that asked:

my alison read is straight up them being indiscernible from an outed wolf

guess I'd prefer Marmot in a vacuum because I have actual reasons there, but Alison should be flipped too. pretty much where i stand.

@DrWilgy

what the hell does "indiscernible from an outed wolf" mean

outed wolves who are ready to die go into anti spew, not try to solve the game

I think you know I'm going to flip green and you don't like the fact that I'm going to flip green with a legacy pointing at you

[Alison]

Don't let ted off the hook when I flip green. That's the only thing I'm asking off you. Don't falsely clear him, put him in the POE even if you want to get Marmot first. I don't care if you think he looked town off the push on Syn, put that guy straight in the POE and don't let him claw his way back into the towncore under any circumstances.

[Alison]

Anyways I still stick to wanting to vote Wilgy if not Alison. Honestly I'm just confused why Alison believed I was scum so strongly for very flimsy reasons. I thought the only way she would have believed her reasons is if she's the doctor and had a cc to me but now Alison's play makes even less sense to me than before

They weren't flimsy reasons. Just because they don't make sense to you doesn't mean that there's no logic in them.

[Esooa]

Alison can you explain your read on wiggly

It feels like he's trying kinda hard to solve the game. I think specifically the way he engaged with ted was good and authentic, and my experience with Wilgy is that he tends to slank more as scum (see: Making Friends). He also slanks as town sometimes, but there's little bursts of effort that shows he has a real townie mindset, whereas when he's scum he just hard trolls/open wolfs

I think it's pretty easy for a wolf not getting scum read who joins the thread to go back and forth between two towns, which would be the case if you are town. He was asking questions but not giving much input so I couldn't see any townie reasoning. I think it makes a lot of sense for a wolf to come into a situation with two town death tunneling eachother and they just ask questions and go between them to seem solvey and get town cred. What do you think of this?

[Esooa]

Anyways I still stick to wanting to vote Wilgy if not Alison. Honestly I'm just confused why Alison believed I was scum so strongly for very flimsy reasons. I thought the only way she would have believed her reasons is if she's the doctor and had a cc to me but now Alison's play makes even less sense to me than before

They weren't flimsy reasons. Just because they don't make sense to you doesn't mean that there's no logic in them.

To clarify I didn't think they were straight up bad, mostly lol, but I think it was way more evident that I was town at the time you stuck with them. But that's all

[Alison]

Alison can you explain your read on wiggly

It feels like he's trying kinda hard to solve the game. I think specifically the way he engaged with ted was good and authentic, and my experience with Wilgy is that he tends to slank more as scum (see: Making Friends). He also slanks as town sometimes, but there's little bursts of effort that shows he has a real townie mindset, whereas when he's scum he just hard trolls/open wolfs

I think it's pretty easy for a wolf not getting scum read who joins the thread to go back and forth between two towns, which would be the case if you are town. He was asking questions but not giving much input so I couldn't see any townie reasoning. I think it makes a lot of sense for a wolf to come into a situation with two town death tunneling eachother and they just ask questions and go between them to seem solvey and get town cred. What do you think of this?

I don't see why scum Wilgy feels obligated to do anything. He can just sit there and let me go over. No need to put his hand in the pie. I also don't think the way he treated me/you was in the position of a wolf egging two townies to attack each other - do you have posts that show why you think that way? Also, it's not particularly scummy for Wilgy to ask questions but not give much input, not sure why you think that. That's just the way he plays, and he's made genuine contributions to the gamestate.

[Alison]

Anyways I still stick to wanting to vote Wilgy if not Alison. Honestly I'm just confused why Alison believed I was scum so strongly for very flimsy reasons. I thought the only way she would have believed her reasons is if she's the doctor and had a cc to me but now Alison's play makes even less sense to me than before

They weren't flimsy reasons. Just because they don't make sense to you doesn't mean that there's no logic in them.

To clarify I didn't think they were straight up bad, mostly lol, but I think it was way more evident that I was town at the time you stuck with them. But that's all

Maybe they're evident to you because you can see your own role card. But they weren't evident to me.

[Alison]

Like genuinely all you had to your name at the time was the vote on Syn. That's it. Role claims don't mean anything because mafia always claim D1 when they're run up, they don't lose anything if they were going to die anyway if they didn't claim.

[Alison]

Anyway, at any rate I think you can take your time to resolve Wilgy. If you're right about him being scum then I suspect his partner is in ted/Marmot, and you should fish out the wolf in those two. The POE is fairly small, so you have room to work with.

[Esooa]

Like genuinely all you had to your name at the time was the vote on Syn. That's it. Role claims don't mean anything because mafia always claim D1 when they're run up, they don't lose anything if they were going to die anyway if they didn't claim.

If you think there's no reason to town read me from my posts at the time then whatever.

But regardless, Wilgy has continuously asked who are your partners, who are my partners, he had said some things you've done that are scummy, but they can also be town, he has spent his entire time in thread bouncing back and forth off you and me being scum or town and has nothing to show for it. He doesn't really have, based on what I can see, any viable partners between us. He hadn't decided who to believe, etc. If he's town he's trying to solve but his posts look more like he wants to appear as if he's solving than he actually is

[Alison]

He's launched a push on ted, indicating that he suspects ted is a member of the mafia. #767 is pretty townie as well, the way he was looking at the whole Alison suicide bomb situation.

[Esooa]

I can see why you disagree based on thinking Ted is Mafia. In my opinion, Ted is town, but I'll suspect him a lot more if you are town. But I mean to ask, if Ted is town what do you think of Wilgy?

[Alison]

I can see why you disagree based on thinking Ted is Mafia. In my opinion, Ted is town, but I'll suspect him a lot more if you are town. But I mean to ask, if Ted is town what do you think of Wilgy?

If ted is town then the mafia team is just Marmot/Wilgy, since my POE is ted/Marmot/Wilgy.

That's assuming I haven't miscleared a town, but my policy is to clear the POE to prove that a deepwolf exists before spinning off into space on tinfoils. So in the case that ted flips town, Marmot and Wilgy go next.

[Esooa]

With that PoE you believe Marmot will close to always be mafia?

[Alison]

I think if ted is town I would go after Marmot before Wilgy, because Marmot had a really bad post recently. But I think both of them die before any of sig/falc/tutuu.

linki: Yes, Marmot has high scum equity right now in my eyes. The ways Marmot is town is if I miscleared a town or if the team is ted/Wilgy, and I think both of those possibilities are much less likely than Marmot just being scum.

[Esooa]

I think if ted is town I would go after Marmot before Wilgy, because Marmot had a really bad post recently. But I think both of them die before any of sig/falc/tutuu.

linki: Yes, Marmot has high scum equity right now in my eyes. The ways Marmot is town is if I miscleared a town or if the team is ted/Wilgy, and I think both of those possibilities are much less likely than Marmot just being scum.

I've been pushing you really hard but I'm open to the idea of exeing Marmot over you. I'm not sure how good of an idea this is because you are really scummy in my eyes, but I agree with you analysis since the claims so I'm ok to go that direction. I'd also feel horrible to misyeet you lol

[Alison]

The reason I suggested suicide bombing N1 was because it was strictly correct. If you're mafia (which I suspected was the case) then obviously I'd want to suicide bomb you. If you're town then it makes the mafia let you live another day in the hope I self destruct into you. Either way it's a good move.

Now the purpose of suiciding is more to lend weight to my words. If I say things, people are going to try to discredit me or suggest that I shouldn't be listened to because I'm scum. By voting myself and making myself die today, I release them from the necessity of pushing me and allow them to listen to my words and treat them seriously, thus allowing me to get more solving done before I inevitably die anyway.

[Esooa]

I don't think that's true. If you're town it's best here that you don't get exed

[sig]

Actually Alison last few posts are pinging me, kinda reminds me of my scum game how she's pivoted now away from trying to be lynched.

[falcon45ca]

@Alison Who should we vote for when you flip red?

[falcon45ca]

I want everyone to explain to me their logic for the Allison vote. She literally started saying we should lynch her before she got any attention correct? Even without this the original scum strategy doesn't make sense. Though now I see she's trying to save herself so maybe I'm missing something and need to reevaluate

Why does Alison voting for herself strike you as a towny move? Cuz it's not optimal scum strategy?


I've seen wolves do it many times, so town folks think like you & don't lynch.

[falcon45ca]

How much longer until EoD?

Why are you joke voting Mac instead of me, one of your top scum reads? Others have said why they think I'm town, you've not said anything to indicate you have a read change. Why the joke vote instead of a scum vote?

[tutuu]

I'm a little sketched out by the folks who are trying to get me to alter my current doctor claim. I don't really know what claiming rules and regulations they're playing by, but I'm a doctor, yes. Or am I?

Maybe someone wanted it to look like I am the killer, since Joseph was after me.

Joe is pretty good at reading you

Maybe he's pretty good and just has a bad read this time... or maybe he's pretty average at reading me, and has gotten lucky once or twice.

If Alison's scum, why would should ask everyone to chop her today? I'm confused.

It'd make more sense if there were three scum left, but there's only 2..

I'm not losing to a scum that asked me to yeet them as part of a bid to deflect my suspicion. So, my vote has to stay on Alison.

I'd like if you just hard claimed. Alisons probably going to cc so I'd rather get it over with sooner rather than later

Ok, I hard-claim doc. For you.

No you're not you stupid motherfucker.

@Alison @Esooa @falcon45ca @Marmot @DrWilgy @sig @tedxtr

I AM THE DOCTOR

n1 - macdougall only (didn't submit a second action)

mafia used their strongman. i didnt protect esooa cuz no point, if she was gonna be the nk it would have been strongmanned, i figured if she won't be the nk for whatever reason the next most likely case is mac (and i was right). whoever is mafia is smart for strongmanning that shot

everyone unvote alison immediately. she's spewed town. there is no world where long con suicides to get me outed when his mafia buddy is on the chopping block. the 2nd mafia is deep. ted or sigurd are my initial thoughts

his claim is atrocious and it will be laughable if anyone believes it. look at how wishy-washy it is, just watch him retract it now and claim he was VT trying to provide the real doc with cover and eat the NK. just watch dude LOL

[tutuu]

i have no reason as mafia to cc when i am consensus townread by everyone sans sigurd. esooa has no reason to be mafia as well with her bussing syn and putting herself on a clock

its LC + ted/sigurd, LC's claim is purposefully dubious and he's trying to make it seem like he's providing me with cover while cementing the alison misyeet, and he's giving himself room to retract after he's left to be alive

[tutuu]

mafia used their strongman n1. this means they are vulnerable to two docs who both have at least 1 shot remaining. i believe this is why LC (who was never making it to end-game anyway) is suiciding to get their last mafia buddy the freeway to f3. ted or sigurd. sigurd's last post scumreading me was a blatant lie, claiming that macdougall was scumreading me when mac's last post was "tutuu is most likely town"

[tutuu]

this scenario happend EXACTLY, JUST LIKE THIS in this perc game i played recently. i can link it. mafia was yeeted d1. one of the partners hard bussed and was the deciding vote (the counterwagon was town), the other mafia didnt bus. the 2nd mafia claimed a PR d2 to suicide for the real pr. scum won due to town being clowns on multiple levels but thats beside the point, me and nanook have literally seen this exact game happen a few weeks ago. here is the link: https://mafiacafe.boards.net/thread/143 ... fia-locked

[tutuu]

fuck i need to conserve my posts but i cant stop. why does this clown think he can claim my role

[tutuu]

if u read my iso from day 1 i was genuinely doc-reading marmot, after the esooa claim i was a bit shook but decided i'd be outing myself if i suddenly stopped doc-reading marmot so i kept at it. on day 2 i decided its anti-town for me to keep doing it so i started retracing my footsteps

this feels fucking insulting that mafia are actually voting our claimed doc and getting away with it

Thought you had Marmot as the Doc?

yea dude but like thats just my interpretation of a soft claim

esooa straight up hard claimed

u dont belive her?

i was afraid this post kinda outed me as doc and i was annoyed at myself but luckily mafia didnt pick up on it n1

[tutuu]

look at the time stamps of this flurry of posts i just produced, there is no way as mafia i am able to come up with bullshit as fast as this. please turbo yeet LC and then look for the deep wolf

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

[tutuu]

also just realized actually that the plan might not be for LC to suicide into me. maybe he was looking to not only out me, but spin it on esooa now and piggyback town!alison's wrong tunnel and misyeet esooa today and then try to 1v1 me tomorrow after keeping me alive at night. yea that actually sounds way more believable. we'll see what he decides to do

maybe he actually believed my read that marmot is the 2nd doc and he wanted to consecutively thunderdome both marmot and esooa and yeet them both