The Hobbit Mafia: Day 12

[Hedgeowl]

The point is that your gut vote for Vomps is a perfect and fishy cover. Vomps defended mongoose against you, and she was good. Vomps claimed you were bad, and now he's dead. It was his fault he was an easy target, but it's the baddies fault he was targeted.

Or it is the fault of civs like me who can't tell when Vomps is good or bad because he makes no effort. You don't know that any baddies even voted for Vomps (unless you are one yourself.)

Vomps has created the perfect mafia strategy.

Just post nothing, and then nobody has anything to hold against you! It's perfect, you could be a civ, you could be bad, nobody knows!

Vomps truly is a innovator in the game of mafia.

ture.

[Boogs]

Yeah I will add the ones who jump on me easily because quite frankly, THAT's what baddies do and it's easy. So there's at least 6 to our knowledge left, considering none of them have been Nightkilled, I will go for SpaceDaisy simply because out of my suspects, you seemed to have livened up all of a sudden. "Did someone say my name? Oh crap let me get involved now!". I do realize Daisy you had things going on, but so did I this weekend but it didn't give two sh*ts less of people wanting to vote me out anyway. So, I just buy how you conveniently came back as you were discussed a little TOO odd. Almost as if your teammates were letting you know you were being discussed again. You seemed quick to jump on me again without ANY type of re reading this thread and actually having opinions on who you think is/could be bad, and then just "Oh guys... Well I thought Boogs was bad Day 3 which was like over a week ago so lets just blend in and vote him now! Down with the kitty!" Bull crap I am calling BS Daisy. I had a weird feeling about you from the Day 2 shenanigans.

Snow I will give a slide for my vote as he and Daisy are my top 2 targets as being bad, because he got silenced from the Wood Elf supposingly and some how that has turned into me being bad because I didn't post that I "knew he was silenced". Yes, no one SAID I knew, but the moment he comes back it's : "Omg guys! I was SiLENCED and no one cared! And omg Boogs didn't even bring it up so he HAD to have had something to do with this!!! I smell a rat!". I mean give me a fricken break SnowDog, you come back to talk and there first words out of your mouth are my name?

So Daisy it is.

I don't think it will matter again, but I'm going ahead to vote her.

Boogs, Boogs, Boogs. I won't say I know exactly what Snow Dog was saying against you, but the general consensus seems to be not that you had something to do with anyone's silence. It's all about you conveniently switching your suspicion to an easy vote while not even noticing that your top suspicion was mia (yes you had mentioned several names, but that one day after that one weird lynch, you came after Snow pretty strongly). You just keep misrepresenting the arguments against you (and so do others, oddly enough).

Now you're back on Daisy after that rant against Snow?

On that note, I feel that I should give some rl context, so that it doesn't get her into trouble. I knew what was going on with Daisy, because we live together. I saw that she was about to be replaced. She jumped back in, because I warned her about it. I don't have any info on her alignment. Just clearing up a potential unfair misunderstanding.

But to say I didn't bring him up would be implying I some how knew he was silenced. There was no way I was going to get Snow lynched yesterday when we had 2 hours until the lynch ended and no one has agreed with me about him. I saw. Vote on me, and I knew you would vote me too. So I posted, i wouldn't be around so I was going to trust llama's judgement and also vote Vompattii because I could see this turning into me being lynched so I made him get another vote. You guys don't see SAVING myself as now me just voting him? Look at exactly what happened. People showed up before the 2 hours were up and I'm off playing games and I check in to see I escape by 1 vote on the lynch! Exactly what I said happened. You're a misguided civ Bunny, an annoying misguided civ.

Linki Daisy: When I don't flip Smaug or Goblin, get ready to have a spare change of pants then.

[insertnamehere]

Yeah I will add the ones who jump on me easily because quite frankly, THAT's what baddies do and it's easy.

Holy NO U Batman.

[S~V~S]

Should anyone be in search of a person to call a lazy asshole, that would be me. Laziest asshole of all time. True story.

Call me names, not each other, k?

[insertnamehere]

I think that Vomps truly is an awesome person, and I've played games where he was 100% invested and a great poster.

But, I feel like he just joins games out of obligation, and isn't truly invested in them. He barely catches up on the thread, he barely posts, and when he does, it's almost never about the game.

For example, in my game The Stanley Parable Mafia, he and Mr. Rearranger were the baddie team. For the first time in the game, his team had a NK. Vomps, without consulting his partner, PM's me to say that he wants to use it on himself. I tell him that if he wanted to quit, that he could do so, and that I could find a replacement. He didn't have to cripple his team in the process. Vompatti didn't even try to explain anything, and poor MR changed the kill to someone who is actually not on his team.

So yeah.

Kind of frustrated with the guy.

[thellama73]

All I'll say is that I resent the accusation and it makes me want to try less hard, not more, since it's clear my efforts are not appreciated.

Rob is bragging about detecting two baddies. Just about everybody knew MP was bad. I said I wanted to switch my vote to him, but had voted early that day and could not. The second is someone he has lived with for many years and with whom he shares a computer. Not all of us have that advantage.

It's not lazy to try and fail. I have been trying, and trying without the need to personally insult my fellow players.

[fingersplints]

I am comforted in the fact that if you are successful, your own logic will lead everyone to accuse you of leading a lynch on a civilian and come after you next.

And I, good sir, don't give two damns about that happening.

You don't seem to be concerned with getting lynched

[fingersplints]

I'm voting inh [/] A large part of me wants to vote Vomps for admitting that he has not even bothered to read the thread, but I have to stick with my stronger suspicion.

linki with a bunch of stuff but gonna post before I read anyways

Can I have an explanation?

ok

Well, what made me suspicious of INH was how he handled Juliets in the beginning of the game. It felt like he was trying to force her into looking bad. I forget exactly what he said but it was regarding her comment on lower posters.
Aside from that, he is someone who was in FZ's suspicion post but she wouldn't really go further with it. I still think that FZ suspected at least one team member having defended MP and ignored Eloh.

Ok thanks. I felt like inh took juliets comments personally but I didn't think he was suspicious because of that, though you could be right and he was trying to paint her as bad. (which team was juliets killed by? could be since the suspicion of her didn't take to kill her instead?)
I don't remember inh in regards to FZ though I did notice and mention that MP did defend him which I found a bit suspicious.

Checking back some juliets was killed by the town goblins.
INH was trying hard to get people to only look at those MP and FZ didn't mention (even made a spreadsheet about it.) while I think it's possible for him to be on either team, I think its more likely he's the last of the Moira goblins.

Yea, I think Epi is just trying to get the point across that he has been cursed. I don't really like to vote for someone who is unable to defend themself unless I have a good reason to do so. That leaves inh or vomps. I don't feel as strongly about vomps as some do, so I'm thinking my vote will go to inh.

[>SpaghettiEverywhere]

Look, guys, right now what i'm seeing is a bunch of people going for boogs and i dont really see why. Yeah, youre all saying a bunch of silly things like "oh, but snow dog! he didnt even mention snow dog while he was jailed!" so what? so what that he votes someone other that who he says is his top suspect? everybody does it all the friggin time. right now i'm just seeing a hate train against boogs and i dont like it. Honestly its been going all game and this all just seems bad bad bad to me. and why was all this started? because someone suspected boogs faked being silenced. right. great work everyone. I wont be voting boogs. in fact, Ill be voting CBK, because you seem to be leading this train against boogs and i think youre bad.

[Turnip Head]

Epignosis, who do you think could be Smaug?

Look, guys, right now what i'm seeing is a bunch of people going for boogs and i dont really see why. Yeah, youre all saying a bunch of silly things like "oh, but snow dog! he didnt even mention snow dog while he was jailed!" so what? so what that he votes someone other that who he says is his top suspect? everybody does it all the friggin time. right now i'm just seeing a hate train against boogs and i dont like it. Honestly its been going all game and this all just seems bad bad bad to me. and why was all this started? because someone suspected boogs faked being silenced. right. great work everyone. I wont be voting boogs. in fact, Ill be voting CBK, because you seem to be leading this train against boogs and i think youre bad.

I would like to quote this for all the truth it holds. The whole case against Boogs seems wrong to me. I'm not sure I'm going so far as to say I suspect his most vocal accusers, but I do find myself frequently scratching my head as to what other players are seeing in him, when he's sounded genuine to me all game.

Epignosis, do you think Boogs should be lynched?

SpaceDaisy, you say that you have been suspicious of Boogs for most of the game. To players like Llama and I who don't really see why we need to lynch the fella, could you lay out why you have been suspicious of Boogs for so long?

[Turnip Head]

Host: Do we get our our gold for the night that was skipped if we didn't have time to vote in the night poll before it got taken down?

[Bullzeye]

I've never really seen the case on Boogs tbh, and a lot of his defences seem like mine when I'm a frustrated (and hounded) civ.

However, I think Boogs is obviously bad. Boogs, not mentioning snow does not make you bad. Voting for vomps does not in itself make you bad. Ignoring your number one suspicion and suddenly voting a convenient unpredictable player simply on trust of a player who was obviously wrong about the last lynch... that looks bad. You voted as the third voter on Vomps when only one person had voted for you.

People are obviously gonna vote to defend themselves when it looks like they might go down. There was movement against him and movement against Vomp. Not wanting to die, he's obviously gonna vote Vomp regardless of his alignment. Also I really don't like when people say so and so is 'obviously' bad when they aren't obviously anything. Someone is only 'obviously' bad if they out themselves somehow. I predict a lot of people will follow you in your vote again and when he's eventually revealed not to be bad, they'll all turn on you and say 'oh it wasn't my fault we lynched Boogs, CBK was so sure! Blame her!'. If you're a civ, you're making yourself a very easy target post-bandwagon for all the baddies who inevitably latch on.

Dom summed up exactly why I feel so certain Boogs is bad.this is not the first time he has railed against one suspect all day just to suddenly vote someone else. It is classic Baddie bandwagoning. And he can go on about me all he wants, but I am civ. and I think that once he flips bad, a good deal of his teammates will be clear too.

I think he explained quite well why you just got his vote. I don't get how voting someone other than your main suspect makes you bad? If a baddie wants someone dead, they have two choices: Kill them at the earliest convenience, or get them lynched. It doesn't help to get someone lynched if you don't actually vote for them!

[Dom]

TH, do you think it's suspicious that Boogs has continually suspected Snow Dog but has never voted for Snow Dog?

[birdwithteeth11]

I think that Vomps truly is an awesome person, and I've played games where he was 100% invested and a great poster.

But, I feel like he just joins games out of obligation, and isn't truly invested in them. He barely catches up on the thread, he barely posts, and when he does, it's almost never about the game.

For example, in my game The Stanley Parable Mafia, he and Mr. Rearranger were the baddie team. For the first time in the game, his team had a NK. Vomps, without consulting his partner, PM's me to say that he wants to use it on himself. I tell him that if he wanted to quit, that he could do so, and that I could find a replacement. He didn't have to cripple his team in the process. Vompatti didn't even try to explain anything, and poor MR changed the kill to someone who is actually not on his team.

So yeah.

Kind of frustrated with the guy.

Yeah, this is my main issue with Vomps lately. When he's actually invested in the game, I think his style of play works much, MUCH more successfully. Because while he's still the same avant-garde type of player, he at least comes up with good ideas and opinions occasionally if he's trying. In the last few games I've played with him, he hasn't done that at all.

[birdwithteeth11]

TH, do you think it's suspicious that Boogs has continually suspected Snow Dog but has never voted for Snow Dog?

I'm not TH, but this is the main reason that I suspect Boogs. The fact that SD was jailed for a day, and Boogs didn't mention it, actually has very little to do with why I suspect him. That and I feel like it says something when a large swath of people you are either suspicious of or deem "low posters" are players who have voted for you.

I'm still leaning strongly towards Boogs right now, but the Epig vs. Llama thing is...interesting? Mostly because one of the last things I would ever associate llama with is the word "lazy". The guy's gut feelings often don't turn out very well, but he's at least very active and trying to participate as much as possible in every game I've played with him. I also don't really see how he's "lead" the lynches on 2 civvies. I can certainly understand someone having that opinion, but I just don't think llama was sitting there with Mongoose and Vompatti and trying to lead a charge against both of them or trying to convince others to vote for them. So unless someone (read: Epig) can pull a quote where llama is either doing that or implying it, I'm afraid I don't see his case on llama right now.

Also, Epig, just because you voted and helped lynch 2 baddies doesn't necessarily make you good. You should know that.

[Russtifinko]

Host: Do we get our our gold for the night that was skipped if we didn't have time to vote in the night poll before it got taken down?

During the Night, gold is awarded for voting in polls and/or answering riddles correctly.

Hope that answers your question!

[Captain Bunny Killer]

Look, guys, right now what i'm seeing is a bunch of people going for boogs and i dont really see why. Yeah, youre all saying a bunch of silly things like "oh, but snow dog! he didnt even mention snow dog while he was jailed!" so what? so what that he votes someone other that who he says is his top suspect? everybody does it all the friggin time. right now i'm just seeing a hate train against boogs and i dont like it. Honestly its been going all game and this all just seems bad bad bad to me. and why was all this started? because someone suspected boogs faked being silenced. right. great work everyone. I wont be voting boogs. in fact, Ill be voting CBK, because you seem to be leading this train against boogs and i think youre bad.

Hey, lets leave hate out of this. It's a game, spaghetti.

This has been going on all game, because Boogs has been all over the place all game. This isnt the first time that he's conveniently jumped on a civ lynch bandwagon. And, unless I'm really mistaken, that's classic baddie, especially when you had other suspicions. And the original case against him had nothing to do with wild theories about faking a silence (it's actually quite amazing that that keeps coming up and makes me think his baddie teammates are taking advantage of it). The original case was that he repeatedly either missed a vote or voted elsewhere and then tried to claim suspicion of an already lynched baddie which he never mentioned before said baddie had died (I made detailed posts about this). On top of that, he didn't start offering suspicions of his own until people started voting for him for jumping on other suspicions. Then it was all "Hey that was a freakin weird lynch and a I bet a bunch of those voting for me were teammies trying to save elo (even though that didn't make sense), and hey lets start going after low-posters (which I know is sometimes a civ frustration, but it's also classic baddie 101).

Seriously? You don't think any of that could indicate baddiness? I'll admit that his defenses have made sense a couple of times, but it's in the middle of a bunch of stuff that doesn't make sense at all, almost like someone was helping him clean up his messes. Then people keep coming around and saying, "Boy, I really don't get this Boogs thing... Something about a fake silence? Nah, I don't see it."

Scrambling much? I'm sure there's a civ out there who doubts it, so, unlike you, I'm not going to assume you're bad (although, I would point out that you were another on the vomps train).

Yes, I am civ, and I am trying to lead a lynch against Boogs. Yep, it would be bad if I'm totally wrong, but I tend to have a be sure and don't give up strategy. I think this is possibly the lead we need to finally hitting on the other goblin team, and the baddies are trying their darndest to dodge it.

So, I'll just go ahead and vote too.

*votes Boogs

[Captain Bunny Killer]

Dom summed up exactly why I feel so certain Boogs is bad.this is not the first time he has railed against one suspect all day just to suddenly vote someone else. It is classic Baddie bandwagoning. And he can go on about me all he wants, but I am civ. and I think that once he flips bad, a good deal of his teammates will be clear too.

I think he explained quite well why you just got his vote. I don't get how voting someone other than your main suspect makes you bad? If a baddie wants someone dead, they have two choices: Kill them at the earliest convenience, or get them lynched. It doesn't help to get someone lynched if you don't actually vote for them!

What does this last part even mean? How does a baddie wanting someone dead have anything to do with a suspicious switch to a bandwagon? Baddies switch their focus in order to blend in, not to kill someone off, though a great side effect of a civ lynch for them is one less civ.

And to this and the part to me: See my response to Spaghetti. Also, I am just more and more stunned that all these people don't think it's suspicious to swicth your suspicion to a bandwagon... more than once and with a general pattern of blendiness and fishy claims. ???

[fingersplints]

I don't think Llama is lazy. I think Epig is trying to get under his skin so he looks worse. Llama may be a baddie but I am not seeing it. Also I think Epig ignored all my comments about him possibly being Smaug because he doesn't want to draw attention to the idea.

Why exactly is it suspicious that boogs is voting for the person with the most amount of votes? What is he supposed to do? Not try and save himself? CBK is looking worse imo

[insertnamehere]

I'm voting inh [/] A large part of me wants to vote Vomps for admitting that he has not even bothered to read the thread, but I have to stick with my stronger suspicion.

linki with a bunch of stuff but gonna post before I read anyways

Can I have an explanation?

ok

Well, what made me suspicious of INH was how he handled Juliets in the beginning of the game. It felt like he was trying to force her into looking bad. I forget exactly what he said but it was regarding her comment on lower posters.
Aside from that, he is someone who was in FZ's suspicion post but she wouldn't really go further with it. I still think that FZ suspected at least one team member having defended MP and ignored Eloh.

Ok thanks. I felt like inh took juliets comments personally but I didn't think he was suspicious because of that, though you could be right and he was trying to paint her as bad. (which team was juliets killed by? could be since the suspicion of her didn't take to kill her instead?)
I don't remember inh in regards to FZ though I did notice and mention that MP did defend him which I found a bit suspicious.

Checking back some juliets was killed by the town goblins.
INH was trying hard to get people to only look at those MP and FZ didn't mention (even made a spreadsheet about it.) while I think it's possible for him to be on either team, I think its more likely he's the last of the Moira goblins.

First off, I wasn't the only person pushing that, and I also wasn't the one who pushed it the most. Also, we don't know for sure if I was right or wrong, and yet you condemn me. People in the thread were asking for a spreadsheet, I was bored, so I made one. I included everyone in it, and also made note of the people they mentioned the most. I tried to be as impartial as possible. I tried to look at it from all angles, not just from one.

So, let's recap. You think that I'm suspicious because I was one of many people interested in a theory that someone else suggested, one that we don't know is wrong! And also because I shared a spreadsheet designed to give impartial data to the group, so we could be informed. Air-tight.

[fingersplints]

The theory being that MP and FZ must have not mentioned their last teammate? I don't agree with that theory at all. Neiher does the one person playing who knows FZ the best.

I condemn you for making a spreadsheet and presenting it as fact even though its not. The spreadsheet is also wrong since as I pointed out you have it listed that MP didn't mention me day 1 when I wasn't even in the game then. Also how do you call deciding which posts were most "liked" as impartial?

And although you weren't the only one who mentioned it you are the one that MP defended. You are making this just about the spreadsheet and conveniently leaving out that there is more to it.

[Captain Bunny Killer]

Splints, do you actually read what I post? It's a pattern of suspicious behavior. Having an out to join a bandwagon once because several people are after him doesn't make him good either.

[fingersplints]

Yes, I actually read what you post.

[insertnamehere]

The theory being that MP and FZ must have not mentioned their last teammate? I don't agree with that theory at all. Neiher does the one person playing who knows FZ the best.

Do we know for certain that it is incorrect? No. Do we know for certain that it's correct? No. Does thinking about it make me bad? No.

I condemn you for making a spreadsheet and presenting it as fact even though its not. The spreadsheet is also wrong since as I pointed out you have it listed that MP didn't mention me day 1 when I wasn't even in the game then.


Anyone who pays attention to the game would know that you replaced someone, and therefore you wouldn't be mentioned. Just because I forgot to add a disclaimer saying that FS replaced in, and therefore wouldn't be mentioned, mostly because I think that we are all intelligent enough to know that already, you condemn me, and my research.

Also how do you call deciding which posts were most "liked" as impartial?

Do you actually know what I did? I had stringent impartial rules as to how I would rank a comment or mention. I wasn't ranking it on whether I thought it was "liked", I was ranking in terms of what was said.

Here's the process and criteria I used.

MinPos means that the baddie interacted with another player in a kind of jokey, or OT way.
RegPos means that the scummeister agreed with something this player said.
StrongPos means that the goblin said that they trust a player, or that a player is innocent.
RegNeg means that the evil sonuvagun disagreed with something this player said.
StrongNeg means that the mean Mr. Mustard said that this player is suspicious, or possibly bad.
Voted means that the commie bastard voted to lynch this player.

If you can point out any specific instance in which I mistakenly labeled something, be my guest, but I think that my criteria was easy to follow, and impartial.

[insertnamehere]

And although you weren't the only one who mentioned it you are the one that MP defended. You are making this just about the spreadsheet and conveniently leaving out that there is more to it.

Ah, ah, ah!

I didn't forget about this part!

For those who don't know, juliets got offended at people posting OT too much. As a joke, I responded to her saying that I was offended at her getting offended at people posting OT too much.

Because of this, people wanted to lynch me.



Something that makes this game different from a regular one mafia type game, is the fact that the mafia is looking for baddies just as much as we are. This makes two-mafia games extra hard. In a regular game, the mafia isn't really trying to investigate leads, only doing so to avert suspicion. In a game like this, they are genuinely trying to catch the other team. I remember playing a game on a mafia team where we barely cared about the civilians, and were more focused on catching other baddies. If this was a regular game, you would have a point. But, I'd argue that the case against me was laughably weak, and that MP, wanting to get a real suspicion going, defended me.

[Bullzeye]

Dom summed up exactly why I feel so certain Boogs is bad.this is not the first time he has railed against one suspect all day just to suddenly vote someone else. It is classic Baddie bandwagoning. And he can go on about me all he wants, but I am civ. and I think that once he flips bad, a good deal of his teammates will be clear too.

I think he explained quite well why you just got his vote. I don't get how voting someone other than your main suspect makes you bad? If a baddie wants someone dead, they have two choices: Kill them at the earliest convenience, or get them lynched. It doesn't help to get someone lynched if you don't actually vote for them!

What does this last part even mean? How does a baddie wanting someone dead have anything to do with a suspicious switch to a bandwagon? Baddies switch their focus in order to blend in, not to kill someone off, though a great side effect of a civ lynch for them is one less civ.

And to this and the part to me: See my response to Spaghetti. Also, I am just more and more stunned that all these people don't think it's suspicious to swicth your suspicion to a bandwagon... more than once and with a general pattern of blendiness and fishy claims. ???

What I'm saying is it's pretty obvious he's been jumping on bandwagons to save himself from you and the bandwagon you want to bring down on him. Just like every single player in the history of mafia has done regardless of their own alignment. It's simple, if there are two big candidates for a lynch and you're one of them then you vote the other. I once didn't do that as a civ and regretted it because I got lynched anyway so from then on I'm happy to let someone else die if I get to live, just like 99% of other players. So no I don't think it's suspicious that he voted with bandwagons rather than for his own suspicion which nobody else seems to have agreed with anyway. I'd hardly call Boogs blendy. That suggests he's going under the radar, following the herd, trying not to stand out. If he's trying to be blendy he sucks at it.

[fingersplints]

"For those who don't know" Who wouldn't know? They can all read the thread lol

The thing is you say juliets got offended but she didn't . It read mostly to me like you got offended (and not jokingly)

I may vote for the person with the most "filler" posts - posts that are only tangentially or not at all related to the thread.

Ok, I can see some problems with this. What denominates "filler"? Is it OT posts? What about posts that are only half OT? Are those considered one half in your scoring system? What about jokes? If I post a suspicion of someone, and add a joke at the end, does that count as "filler"? Also, if I post 8 "filler" posts and 2 "on-topic" posts, would I be ranked higher or lower in your magical "filler" system than someone with only 2 "filler" posts in the thread? If you deem a post to be "filler", can someone dispute that claim?

On a "serious" note, I'm not sure I like this. One of the reasons I love this site is the banter, which you affectionately refer to as "filler". Even if you don't enjoy it, persecuting those who do just seems kind mean-spirited. Also, my "strategy" is to usually sit back and observe for the first few cycles, and see what developments happen. I don't want to be misconstrued as inactive, so I post "filler", usually with some connection to the game. It doesn't mean I'm not taking the game seriously, I just play it in a different way. For you to condemn players like me because of it, strikes me as a bit rude.

It's also just interesting that you don't agree with juliets being bothered by the OT talk yet ou have issues with Vomps behavior

I think that Vomps truly is an awesome person, and I've played games where he was 100% invested and a great poster.

But, I feel like he just joins games out of obligation, and isn't truly invested in them. He barely catches up on the thread, he barely posts, and when he does, it's almost never about the game.

For example, in my game The Stanley Parable Mafia, he and Mr. Rearranger were the baddie team. For the first time in the game, his team had a NK. Vomps, without consulting his partner, PM's me to say that he wants to use it on himself. I tell him that if he wanted to quit, that he could do so, and that I could find a replacement. He didn't have to cripple his team in the process. Vompatti didn't even try to explain anything, and poor MR changed the kill to someone who is actually not on his team.

So yeah.

Kind of frustrated with the guy.

[Leamiteo]

It's feeling tense again....I would just like to encourage everyone to take a nice, deep breath. It's a game.

Boogs has not answered my questions. He posted a snarky post claiming that I didn't read the thread and that he did in fact answer my questions (which, no he didn't). Then he made several posts indicating that he did not himself read the thread very closely.

I think he's bad. Lunch is over in four minutes. I'm voting now while I can.

*Boogs*

[Hedgeowl]

I have a quick second to check in luckily. Okay, so because I decided to try Elohcin over Spacedaisy even though I said I suspect her as well, that makes me bad today? Interesting. Also, if the people who voted on me suspect me as bad, are you suggesting I am on the same Goblin team as MP? That's funny if so. I don't see how me voting second in the poll automatically diverts attention from players who have been talked about the past week and onto me all of a sudden because I choose to vote someone else based on good thread evidence Epignosis and others have made about Elohcin. I have waited on Daisy because I found her argument something to consider about why she would have helped get rid of 2 teammates (MP and FZ) when she would now be alone with just 1 person. I think when I first assumed after Day 1's result, it felt like that was what Mp was doing by throwing her under. But then with FZ gone also, it does make me original idea fade and not logical. That is why I am trying Elohcin today, I am considering again Daisy and Mongoose possibly being bad teammates like K4J is trying to say and I'm not sure if Elohcin is on that team or MP's.

This "Boogs bandwagon" Vompattii stated he jumped on pings me some about him also when Epignosis and I are the only ones who had voted and it feels he is trying to start one.

First of all, who said you're suspected because you switched your opinion of Daisy? No, seriously, I couldn't figure out who said that.

Secondly, no one said you were on MP's team (unless I missed that too). I think it's funny that you're defending against an imagined accusation.

Thirdly, if you switched to Elo due to "good thread evidence," you never said so before this. You switched because you believe Epi (or at least that's what you said).

As said earlier, I have to vote tonight because I may/may not be able to check tomorrow. I'm going to try to take a chance and believe Elohcin to be on the other Goblin team. (votes Elohcin) here's to us getting 3 baddies in a row!

Hmmm you think they are on the other team? Something to consider. Thanks for trying to tell us your suspicions for today. Epignosis seems to feel strongly that Elohcin is bad... But idk. If he knows his wife as well as he says, it's worth a try I suppose. I still feel something is going on with SD if not MP's teammate, then possibly on the other Goblin team. She just pings me and I can't play my finger quite on it.

[Despite your own suspicion for Daisy which you have your own original (I think?) thoughts on.]

Moh.
Elose? Mose. Mooh. Mooongose? Mongoh.
Same?
Same.
Elongose.
Same?
Elongoh.
Same?
Eloose.
Eloh.
Same? Mose? Mongoh.
Elose.
Eloose.
Eloh.
Elose?
Same?
Elose. Moh. Mongongoh.
Same? Moh.
Same?
Same.
Elose?
Elose.
Elongongongongose? Moh. Moose?
Same?
Same?
Elose.
Elongoooh.
Elongoongose? Mose. Moh.
Same.
Elose? Mose?
Eloh. Mongoh.
Elongose.
Same. Mose.
Same? Moh.
Elose? Mooh. Mongongose. Mose.
Elongoh.
Same? Moose? Mose? Moh.
Same. Moh.
Elongongongooh.
Elose. Mongose. Mongose.

I'm guessing you are trying to tell us you think Mongoose and Elohcin are on the same team?

Is this the good thread evidence you recognized before this?
Because before that you thought the a vote on Elo was suspicious.

Nice work FZ voters. I've never seen a game start this well before.

Does anyone still agree with me that the bandwagon was a bit odd though?

I definitely do. It was all crazy back and forth all of a sudden for both FZ and K4J. Keeping my eyes open

Two things that struck me as odd during this lynch were:
a) I felt like the Elohcin thing was kind of random and I'm surprised people voted for her. Just because she randomized? Idk.. Felt weird to me.

B) BWT vote on himself... It just stood out odd as hell to me when there were names out there that deserved suspicion and he voted himself. I saw Bea recently do that when I hosted Pokemon, but she was Indy still so I don't know if that tells me something about BWT being Indy also, or him being bad and not wanting to get his hands dirty. Just rubbed me the wrong way honestly. I didn't see anyone else I believe mention his vote.

But let's go back and look at the record (Just click on Boogs's in topic. It's only one page.)

First you voted randomly (and I admit you said it was random) for k4j.

MP was lynched, and then you said he pinged you... after he was dead.

Then you picked the one easy target from MP's personal fireball of doom, the unexplained and sudden vote on Daisy. This suspicion had already been discussed before MP went down, but this is the first you mention it, after MP flips bad.

Then you said almost nothing (except a video) until FZ went down. Conveniently, you claimed in your next post that you had been pinged by both Daisy and FZ, which, again, you had never said before. And, in fact, you didn't vote at all that time.

Then you responded to MM's comment about the crazy k4j/FZ pile up (seen above) with the Elo comment and a ping by a self-voter (another understandable, though easy, target).

Then you said, "Cool, JC, I get the Elo thing now." (paraphrase).

Then Epi eyed you for your bogus-looking claim of a FZ suspicion, and other people picked up on it (Juliets and Lizzy). You said it was elves drink causing an effect that we no the wood elf gaoler can cause, but if it's true of the drink, we don't know. But you stuck with your story (I gotta give you that).

Then you agreed with TH's noting how MP and FZ interacted with Daisy, according to INH's chart. I feel the need to quote that one.

I felt that way too before and after MP's lynch in particular. I think he was throwing her under the bus to distance himself. She's still on my radar for possibly getting my vote today. I also have to consider some last minute voters on the back and forth votes with FZ and K4J. I think there was some initial saving possibly from the other Goblin team for K4J possibly also. Will examine it when I get free time during work today and decide who I want to cast a vote for after that.

Wait, what? You felt that way about Daisy before MP's lynch? You never even voiced any suspicion of him until afterwards. Yet you theorized that he was throwing a baddie teammate under the bus? An event you never took note of until after his lynch?

Odd. Very very odd.

And this is why I don't do this often, I'm too freakin detailed. And this isn't even my only suspicion, but I try to answer when someone asks for suspicion evidence.

Here is CBKs case that convinced me Boogs was worth a second look. His playstyle since then hasnt changed my mind. People keep saying they don't see a case against him and are getting rather defensive about it. That more than anything makes go all squirrelly amd people. nobody stood up for Vomps that I saw. It has been his overall tone and backtracking on suspects throughout the game that makes him seem like a possible baddie. I agree with Bullz that his type of defensiveness reads more civ to me currently, but I am leaning more baddie on him ATM.

[Bullzeye]

Here is CBKs case that convinced me Boogs was worth a second look. His playstyle since then hasnt changed my mind. People keep saying they don't see a case against him and are getting rather defensive about it. That more than anything makes go all squirrelly amd people. nobody stood up for Vomps that I saw. It has been his overall tone and backtracking on suspects throughout the game that makes him seem like a possible baddie. I agree with Bullz that his type of defensiveness reads more civ to me currently, but I am leaning more baddie on him ATM.

Who is getting defensive? People are perfectly entitled to not follow an easy bandwagon if they don't agree with why. Personally I'll be more suspicious of those who do simply jump on without adding anything to the case. I'd honestly be kinda surprised if Boogs flips goblin, I think it's more likely that baddies are using the CBK's passionate movement against him to their advantage. I genuinely feel like he's a frustrated civ tired of being hounded for a couple of mistakes. His attitude toward the case on him feels exactly like mine towards Dom in Pokemon.

[>SpaghettiEverywhere]

Look, guys, right now what i'm seeing is a bunch of people going for boogs and i dont really see why. Yeah, youre all saying a bunch of silly things like "oh, but snow dog! he didnt even mention snow dog while he was jailed!" so what? so what that he votes someone other that who he says is his top suspect? everybody does it all the friggin time. right now i'm just seeing a hate train against boogs and i dont like it. Honestly its been going all game and this all just seems bad bad bad to me. and why was all this started? because someone suspected boogs faked being silenced. right. great work everyone. I wont be voting boogs. in fact, Ill be voting CBK, because you seem to be leading this train against boogs and i think youre bad.

Hey, lets leave hate out of this. It's a game, spaghetti.

This has been going on all game, because Boogs has been all over the place all game. This isnt the first time that he's conveniently jumped on a civ lynch bandwagon. And, unless I'm really mistaken, that's classic baddie, especially when you had other suspicions. And the original case against him had nothing to do with wild theories about faking a silence (it's actually quite amazing that that keeps coming up and makes me think his baddie teammates are taking advantage of it). The original case was that he repeatedly either missed a vote or voted elsewhere and then tried to claim suspicion of an already lynched baddie which he never mentioned before said baddie had died (I made detailed posts about this). On top of that, he didn't start offering suspicions of his own until people started voting for him for jumping on other suspicions. Then it was all "Hey that was a freakin weird lynch and a I bet a bunch of those voting for me were teammies trying to save elo (even though that didn't make sense), and hey lets start going after low-posters (which I know is sometimes a civ frustration, but it's also classic baddie 101).

Seriously? You don't think any of that could indicate baddiness? I'll admit that his defenses have made sense a couple of times, but it's in the middle of a bunch of stuff that doesn't make sense at all, almost like someone was helping him clean up his messes. Then people keep coming around and saying, "Boy, I really don't get this Boogs thing... Something about a fake silence? Nah, I don't see it."

Scrambling much? I'm sure there's a civ out there who doubts it, so, unlike you, I'm not going to assume you're bad (although, I would point out that you were another on the vomps train).

Yes, I am civ, and I am trying to lead a lynch against Boogs. Yep, it would be bad if I'm totally wrong, but I tend to have a be sure and don't give up strategy. I think this is possibly the lead we need to finally hitting on the other goblin team, and the baddies are trying their darndest to dodge it.

So, I'll just go ahead and vote too.

*votes Boogs

What I am seeing is yes, boogs, has been all over the place this game, but (and let me bold this because i want everyone to see it) YOU AND YOUR ENTIRE POSSE GOING AFTER HIM HAVE FORCED HIM TO. you have 4 or 5 people who all are coming up with a whole bunch of baloney stuff in this game to accuse him of. How is he supposed to react to 5 different people all accusing him of another little meaningless thing that you think is suspicious? And no, thats PART of your original case on him, but you all started it because he said that he was silenced and was therefore unable to vote or talk in the thread. and you say that its bad that once he comes back he starts laying out his suspicious? And bullz makes a very good point, why would he vote snow dog, his top suspicion, when Boogs himself is the next in line under vomps for a lynch? it only makes sense. there was good reason to vote vomps as well, which is why i had voted vomps in previous nights before his lynch as well.

Also, let me make this clear: I dont know if Boogs is good or bad, but his playing so far has definitely not dictated either way. To me, he looks like a cornered civ doing everything he can to combat the lynch train that a group has aimed at him.

[insertnamehere]

I'M MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!

[>SpaghettiEverywhere]

And now I'm being made fun of. Wonderful. Its shit like this that makes me quit playing mafia.

[thellama73]

So far four people have votes and I don't think any of them is bad. What's a llama to do?

[thellama73]

And now I'm being made fun of. Wonderful. Its shit like this that makes me quit playing mafia.

I completely agree with you, Spaghetti, if it makes you feel any better.

[Snow Dog]

Well I'm pretty convinced Boogs is bad. And it isn't for one reason. It's for many.

[fingersplints]

And now I'm being made fun of. Wonderful. Its shit like this that makes me quit playing mafia.

I hear ya

So far four people have votes and I don't think any of them is bad. What's a llama to do?

Seems like you should know if you are bad not just think haha
Seriously though there's lots of votes still unaccounted for but I feel like this vote will be spread a lot. I don't like that but I doubt I will be voting for any of the people with votes already as well.

[Captain Bunny Killer]

Look, guys, right now what i'm seeing is a bunch of people going for boogs and i dont really see why. Yeah, youre all saying a bunch of silly things like "oh, but snow dog! he didnt even mention snow dog while he was jailed!" so what? so what that he votes someone other that who he says is his top suspect? everybody does it all the friggin time. right now i'm just seeing a hate train against boogs and i dont like it. Honestly its been going all game and this all just seems bad bad bad to me. and why was all this started? because someone suspected boogs faked being silenced. right. great work everyone. I wont be voting boogs. in fact, Ill be voting CBK, because you seem to be leading this train against boogs and i think youre bad.

Hey, lets leave hate out of this. It's a game, spaghetti.

This has been going on all game, because Boogs has been all over the place all game. This isnt the first time that he's conveniently jumped on a civ lynch bandwagon. And, unless I'm really mistaken, that's classic baddie, especially when you had other suspicions. And the original case against him had nothing to do with wild theories about faking a silence (it's actually quite amazing that that keeps coming up and makes me think his baddie teammates are taking advantage of it). The original case was that he repeatedly either missed a vote or voted elsewhere and then tried to claim suspicion of an already lynched baddie which he never mentioned before said baddie had died (I made detailed posts about this). On top of that, he didn't start offering suspicions of his own until people started voting for him for jumping on other suspicions. Then it was all "Hey that was a freakin weird lynch and a I bet a bunch of those voting for me were teammies trying to save elo (even though that didn't make sense), and hey lets start going after low-posters (which I know is sometimes a civ frustration, but it's also classic baddie 101).

Seriously? You don't think any of that could indicate baddiness? I'll admit that his defenses have made sense a couple of times, but it's in the middle of a bunch of stuff that doesn't make sense at all, almost like someone was helping him clean up his messes. Then people keep coming around and saying, "Boy, I really don't get this Boogs thing... Something about a fake silence? Nah, I don't see it."

Scrambling much? I'm sure there's a civ out there who doubts it, so, unlike you, I'm not going to assume you're bad (although, I would point out that you were another on the vomps train).

Yes, I am civ, and I am trying to lead a lynch against Boogs. Yep, it would be bad if I'm totally wrong, but I tend to have a be sure and don't give up strategy. I think this is possibly the lead we need to finally hitting on the other goblin team, and the baddies are trying their darndest to dodge it.

So, I'll just go ahead and vote too.

*votes Boogs

What I am seeing is yes, boogs, has been all over the place this game, but (and let me bold this because i want everyone to see it) YOU AND YOUR ENTIRE POSSE GOING AFTER HIM HAVE FORCED HIM TO. you have 4 or 5 people who all are coming up with a whole bunch of baloney stuff in this game to accuse him of. How is he supposed to react to 5 different people all accusing him of another little meaningless thing that you think is suspicious? And no, thats PART of your original case on him, but you all started it because he said that he was silenced and was therefore unable to vote or talk in the thread. and you say that its bad that once he comes back he starts laying out his suspicious? And bullz makes a very good point, why would he vote snow dog, his top suspicion, when Boogs himself is the next in line under vomps for a lynch? it only makes sense. there was good reason to vote vomps as well, which is why i had voted vomps in previous nights before his lynch as well.

Also, let me make this clear: I dont know if Boogs is good or bad, but his playing so far has definitely not dictated either way. To me, he looks like a cornered civ doing everything he can to combat the lynch train that a group has aimed at him.

Hey, calm down. I don't know why you're so defensive about this when you claim you don't even know whether or not you think Boogs is bad. Is it because I pointed out that you jumped on the Vomps thing too? Didn't I say I wasn't trying to peg you as bad?

And I think your timeline on Boogs is not correct. I brought up a string of fishy claims made by Boogs, one of which was defended by a supposed silence. I said nothing about any theories of fake silences (a planned out strategy). That particular instance just looked like a quick cover up move which was described in a very doubtful way (the wrong role, as they are posted). I just said overall his posts seem doubtful. In fact, if you look back, you'll see that I argued with people who started up discussion about the ins and outs of a fake-silence strategy. I am not on a team with anyone.

Yes, unlike llama, I will recognize that I'm taking responsibility for initiating and continuing this. I wouldn't take that risk unless I was sure. I keep pushing it, because there seems to be an amazing amount of dodging on what seems to me to be many forms of bad behavior (not just bandwagon voting, by the way). If you combine that with the fact that there has been a couple of competing bandwagons for civs, I think there's a strong possibility that I'm correct and being villainized.

[Captain Bunny Killer]

Sorry, I didn't fully explain the timeline thing. Boogs sudden mention of several really vague accusations did not come right after he "came back" from a silence. It game days later (game days) when people started seriously considering him. That looks bad.

[>SpaghettiEverywhere]

The reason I'm being so defensive about all of this is because in pretty much every single mafia game I have played, I have been bandwagon lynched by these bullshit lynch trains over a bullshit reason that doesnt even make sense. Im saying that boogs is getting assailed from every direction by these people in your lynch train and no matter what move he makes is going to be wrong in someones eyes. I dont care if you believe me at this point, I dont care if anybody does. But youre wrong. And so is everyone else who hopped on the train behind you.

[Leamiteo]

If at any point during the game you have an issue with the game itself or another player, please contact me or S~V~S and we will do our best to help resolve your issue quickly. If you have an issue with me during the game, S~V~S is the person to talk to, and I think she'll be able to talk sense into me if I'm acting crazy or unfairly.

I don't this this would EVER happen, lol. But if anything DOES happen that makes anyone unhappy, I am here, even if you just need to vent. If you have an issue, take it to me, via PM, and not to the thread

So I just wanted to remind everyone that SVS is there for us. Please vent to her if you need a reassuring

[Captain Bunny Killer]

For the sake of sanity and fun, I'm going to stop now, unless someone has a specific question (a lot happened in there, so I may have missed something).

See ya on the other side.

[insertnamehere]

And now I'm being made fun of. Wonderful. Its shit like this that makes me quit playing mafia.

And now someone took a joke I made personally. Wonderful. Its shit like this that makes me quit playing mafia.

[>SpaghettiEverywhere]

Mocking me too? Fuck it. Pretty much done for good here.

[thellama73]

And the thread crashes and burns...

[Russtifinko]

If at any point during the game you have an issue with the game itself or another player, please contact me or S~V~S and we will do our best to help resolve your issue quickly. If you have an issue with me during the game, S~V~S is the person to talk to, and I think she'll be able to talk sense into me if I'm acting crazy or unfairly.

I don't this this would EVER happen, lol. But if anything DOES happen that makes anyone unhappy, I am here, even if you just need to vent. If you have an issue, take it to me, via PM, and not to the thread

So I just wanted to remind everyone that SVS is there for us. Please vent to her if you need a reassuring

Hey everyone! Just wanted to supplement S~V~S's and Lea's reminders by saying that S~V~S and I are here for you if you do ever need to talk for any reason. It's definitely an intense game at this point, and I love that people are so into it, but having fun is literally Rule #1 (and 7 and 11). If you're not following that rule, you may need a break, and if someone is preventing you from following it, please please please come to us and I promise we will resolve it.

[thellama73]

I just want to say you are doing a terrific job hosting your first game, Russ, and I'm sorry if I have been testy at times or contributed to an atmosphere of tension. This really has been fantastic.

[birdwithteeth11]

I'm really starting to feel like some of us forgot to take our chill pills. Remember, it's a game. If you're starting to feel incredibly frustrated, or feel tempted to resort to name-calling, take a minute to walk away and catch your breath. I know I don't harbor any strong negative feelings about any of you, and you're all terrific players and I like playing with all of you! You make it interesting to say the least! :P But seriously, I understand people getting frustrated or upset in mafia. I do it all the time. But knowing when to commit something to typed-out words we can all see, when to take it to the host or an admin, or when to walk away for a few minutes makes it a lot less stressful.

I've already said my piece on the whole Boogs thing. CBK's case was what made me go back and look at him more, and I found several good reasons to be looking at him. But unless someone has questions to ask me personally about it, I'm done with it for now. Because it seems like it's just stoking the kettle right now.

Also, Dan, you've done a terrific, super fantastic job hosting your first-ever game so far! And theme aside, I'm enjoying it just because of that, man!

[Russtifinko]

Thanks, guys! I really appreciate the support!

And I should make clear again, my post wasn't directed at any one (or even two or three) player(s). BWT is right; everybody gets frustrated at times (I know I have). Handling it in the right way can take a great deal of both self-awareness and awareness of your environment.

It has been an absolute joy hosting this so far and seeing you all interact! It's been rewarding that so many players are so involved. The journey to the Lonely Mountain is perilous, but it makes for one hell of a story.

[Dom]

What I am seeing is yes, boogs, has been all over the place this game, but (and let me bold this because i want everyone to see it) YOU AND YOUR ENTIRE POSSE GOING AFTER HIM HAVE FORCED HIM TO. you have 4 or 5 people who all are coming up with a whole bunch of baloney stuff in this game to accuse him of. How is he supposed to react to 5 different people all accusing him of another little meaningless thing that you think is suspicious? And no, thats PART of your original case on him, but you all started it because he said that he was silenced and was therefore unable to vote or talk in the thread. and you say that its bad that once he comes back he starts laying out his suspicious? And bullz makes a very good point, why would he vote snow dog, his top suspicion, when Boogs himself is the next in line under vomps for a lynch? it only makes sense. there was good reason to vote vomps as well, which is why i had voted vomps in previous nights before his lynch as well.

Also, let me make this clear: I dont know if Boogs is good or bad, but his playing so far has definitely not dictated either way. To me, he looks like a cornered civ doing everything he can to combat the lynch train that a group has aimed at him.

Spaghetti, do you think everyone who is suspecting Boogs is in on this? I certainly am not, but I simply suspect it when people continuously 'suspect' one person, but continuously vote other players.

And now I'm being made fun of. Wonderful. Its shit like this that makes me quit playing mafia.

I am sorry that you have to go through that. I enjoy you as a player.

Hey everyone! Just wanted to supplement S~V~S's and Lea's reminders by saying that S~V~S and I are here for you if you do ever need to talk for any reason. It's definitely an intense game at this point, and I love that people are so into it, but having fun is literally Rule #1 (and 7 and 11). If you're not following that rule, you may need a break, and if someone is preventing you from following it, please please please come to us and I promise we will resolve it.

Stepping out of my role as a player and into my role as a moderator:
Y'all need to PM SVS. She is a wonderful lady and would love to help you all out. I have PM'd the mod in a game just to vent about something before. I wasn't that offended, but instead of voicing it to anyone, I just wrote a response to the moderator of the game. It really helped.