Bike [END]

[Hally]

I understand (I think) what he's saying about various ways to get feedback but I don't know what made him so upset. I need to read Guillo, which I'll do right after breakfast.

I was getting pretty upset reading it tbh

So TSP are you saying you see why he was so upset? If so can you tell me why it was upsetting? I want to understand.

My impression is Martin felt like 1) he was being forced to talk about something he didn’t want to talk about — he came in and asked three questions about the game state, the response was “are you claiming PR” and 2) he was being dragged around, told what to do and the like, behind this veneer of “you can do what you want”.

None of this excludes martin from being mafia, and it makes him more likely PR

no one was forcing him or dragging him around. he made an incredibly vague claim. i asked him about the claim. he then proceeded to act like it was totally insane that i would ask him about it and got very defensive. that confused me and made me even more curious. that’s pretty much it

[TonyStarkPrime]

Literally Nanook was a pooled shot

[Hally]

i don’t know why you’re getting bent out of shape about this

Well what I quoted

was, in my opinion, a very stupid statement by a player who I believe is more than capable of knowing that "they could be any alignment" with regards to PR's is a statement that really ignores the nuances in forum mafia regardless of the usual or unusual nature of a setup.

Yes, this setup may be odd or unusual. But that doesn't mean that suddenly all the roles that could be beneficial for town or are seen as less beneficial for the mafia, are suddenly the scummiest PRs imaginable, nor does it garuntee it even being the case for even one of them.

I mean, seriously? It also seemed even more contradictory to the purpose you asking if I was claiming PR, which to me, seemed to be because of your scum-read of me. Problem being, you just said "[PR's] could be any alignment" and that's contradictory to you (what seems to me) trying to use my role, or what you saw as an odd PR claim, as a means of investigating my alignment.

Which made that whole initial interaction with me even more confusing.

Since we were clearly having problems for the past (hour?) or so at that time, I decided to leave the thread for awhile before I got more agitated over our differences.

i don’t really feel like engaging with you about this more. let’s move on

[Hally]

Okay, so what I got last night was, exclusively, an image.

It was a black-and-white picture of a lightly-colored bike partially submerged in (what I guess is) quicksand. The bike had no seat to it.

It was titled "A haunting vision".

Oh, and the picture had a white border around it sorta like a picture frame.

Now the reason why I think this might be not negative utility is because apparently someone else died on N1 along with the usual mafia kill.

Which makes me think there may not be another extra kill power out there aside from host compensation, but I don't really speculate on that, especially since I'm not aware of anything that has happened warranting that.

Unless its some sort of arsonist-like role with a smaller mafia?

i don’t know why you’re assuming it has anything to do with kp or any utility at all. the picture by item is not really enough to draw anything from imo

[Hally]

i also don’t get why you’re assuming that was sent by a town player. it seems like it was sent by jay, though i suppose a player could have sent it through jay. but i don’t know where anyone would find an image like that, is my point

maybe it does mean you’re cursed or something. i have no idea. it’s not important to me really

[Hally]

Literally Nanook was a pooled shot

i’m pretty sure nobody had nook in their immediate poe but you. he was in some people’s outer poe though. but clearly would not have been in contention to be voted out today imo. but it doesn’t matter, he’s dead now. maybe i’m just salty because he was obviously town to me

[Marmot]

maybe we're all just town and we need to chop jay

[Hally]

i don’t really know what to do

martin’s posts are strange but i question whether they’re truly wolfy. radishes exists and still feels lackluster but it’s not like i can’t see him as town here. tony is very likely just town for his role and i’m just annoyed at the shot, but it doesn’t make him a wolf

and then beyond this i don’t really know. my sense is we will find the remaining wolves in martin/lc/epi/marmot/radishes but none of them are really particularly wolfy to me. jules/sean/tutuu/tony are very likely to all be town here imo

[Marmot]

New idea: vig is not town.

Why?

TSP shot somebody who was in sort of in the poe, but not clearly in the poe. Also, since we've brought up the point that pr's do not belong to a specific alignment, the vig is not inherently town. Shooting Nanook as a scum-aligned vig sort of makes sense if the player who did it planned on claiming it.



I'm not thrilled about this idea, but it should be acknowleged.

[juliets]

i don’t really know what to do

martin’s posts are strange but i question whether they’re truly wolfy. radishes exists and still feels lackluster but it’s not like i can’t see him as town here. tony is very likely just town for his role and i’m just annoyed at the shot, but it doesn’t make him a wolf

and then beyond this i don’t really know. my sense is we will find the remaining wolves in martin/lc/epi/marmot/radishes but none of them are really particularly wolfy to me. jules/sean/tutuu/tony are very likely to all be town here imo

I am feeling the same way.

I read through Epi about an hour ago and just couldn't grab onto LC and Marmot's points of view. I get that the Made vote didn't have any explanation but that's not enough for me to say "mafia" given his other contributions. LC said his analyses of people was basically quotes and gibberish but I can't fault Epi for not having a sound conclusion on everyone on Night 1. The whole process just made me tired.

Then, just now I read through Radish and he seems to be picking up the pace a bit, contributing more meat.

Guillo seemed somewhat wolfy to me but Martin feels genuine, at least so far.

Tony I have to believe is town though I too am annoyed at the shot.

I have not read through Sean and will do so tomorrow but as he has posted I have felt good about what he has to say.

So which way to go tomorrow, I need to mentally sift for a bit before deciding.

[Long Con]

Literally Nanook was a pooled shot

What does that mean?

New idea: vig is not town.

Why?

TSP shot somebody who was in sort of in the poe, but not clearly in the poe. Also, since we've brought up the point that pr's do not belong to a specific alignment, the vig is not inherently town. Shooting Nanook as a scum-aligned vig sort of makes sense if the player who did it planned on claiming it.



I'm not thrilled about this idea, but it should be acknowleged.

Acknowledged. Giving an extra kill to a Mafia team would require some sick balancing for the town though. Sending pics of bikes doesn't seem to cut it.

[Long Con]

Holy paprika, I just noticed an honest-to-goodness player salad. I think I saw someone reference it so I know I'm not the first to notice it; it just made me chuckle out loud when I noticed it.

It is really special when you find such a perfect specimen that reinforces the concept as a proper tool for suspicion.

[tutuu]

Alright, whoever sent the bike pic to martin probably town, w/e

I still believe he is mafia due to guillo

I also believe tony is mafia due to made

I townread MR due to day play

[tutuu]

But i wouldnt cry if MR gets chopped w/e

Hes mafia if its not tony + marton imo

Just please dont chop someone outside those 3 today that would be dumb

[tutuu]

Like chopping epi or marmot today is dumb please dont do that

[tutuu]

Martin was probably roleblocked/jailkept or his vote is nullified or something

[Long Con]

But i wouldnt cry if MR gets chopped w/e

Hes mafia if its not tony + marton imo

Just please dont chop someone outside those 3 today that would be dumb

I would chop Radish out of those three. Tony has the gun, and Martin has hit more town markers than Radish. And Radish voted for Guillo while saying Made is scummier but he likes to Let It Rand.

[Long Con]

Martin was probably roleblocked/jailkept or his vote is nullified or something

Maybe getting a photo means your player is being replaced! It could happen to YOU! Imagine tomorrow you were Joseph.

[tutuu]

Oh no

[Marmot]

So which way to go tomorrow, I need to mentally sift for a bit before deciding.

Does this involve literally running your brain through a sift?

[Marmot]

@juliets why do you have to believe Tony is town?

[Long Con]

@juliets why do you have to believe Tony is town?

What is the purpose of this question?

[Marmot]

@juliets why do you have to believe Tony is town?

What is the purpose of this question?

Juliets said "I have to believe Tony is town", and I want to know why she feels that she has to believe that?

[tutuu]

Multiple people feel the need to believe the vig claim is town due to assumptions / reads about the setup

I dont care if tony claims a god damn innocent child i think the way made treated him was partnery

[tutuu]

only now im getting around to ISOing Made

I'm licking my lips in anticipation.

I like the cut of your jib.

also, does MR open wolf like this as town? I've played with him once before, but I feel like I would of noticed some bull like this-- This and the rest of his ISO

MR town, this isnt how partners talk ime and from my observation of made. this is how a wolf talks about a scummy town

[tutuu]

@Made How much do you suspect Guillo and Tony?

my baddie three right now are Guillo Tutuu and MR with tony on my bench. I think almost every game i've played since i came back i've played with tony, and I think i've read him bad every game. don't think i've been right, so if he's on meta, i'm not likely to go there

rule of 3 as MR said, pretty straightforward

[tutuu]

I bet you there is at least one wolf on my wagon now

i mean without looking at the wagon that's what 1464/2184 for you? Not taking those odds smh

Wait how did u calculate those permutations?

14 slots left of which 11 are town outside of myself (given I'm not voting for Guillo). So then the odds they're all town is 11 x 10 x 9 x 8 / 14 x 13 x 12 x 11, cancel the 11s, 720/14x13x12 = 13^3-13= 2184, so 720/2184 that all town

I love me some memes, but like this whole interaction is gross, especially insight of Tony's fluffyness, Tutuu's 180 going on 360.

feels like a buncha cocky baddies imo

partnery interactions to distance imo

if my name wasnt in here and it was someone else's name i would have also scumread either tony or the other name

[tutuu]

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

I won't be around EoD. This is a self preservation vote, Made voting me certainly makes it easier for me though.

I really don't like the lack of ownership of their reads that Guillotine is doing. If he thinks i'm bad, they should say it

partnery

also he didnt self-pres to guillo, he could have

[tutuu]

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

Tell me why this is wrong.

You're wrong. Tell me why you're right.
(ur not)

not partnery

[tutuu]

wow LC was right i really did became joseph

[tutuu]

[VOTE: Master Radish] aubergine I don't like how quiet the thread is leading up to a Made or Guillotine lunch...

[VOTE: Mr Radishes] aubergine

last minute useless vote on MR (from made) instead of self-pressing to the top competing wagon guillo

also that vote from seanzie doesnt look good

[tutuu]

okay u know what, now i think its MartinGG99 + Seanzie

[tutuu]

okay u know what, now i think its MartinGG99 + Seanzie

this was also nanook's poe iirc and nanook is underrated in terms of read accuracy, he is really good

[tutuu]

no man but i cant get over my tunnel of tony

[tutuu]

i believe MR was spewed town by Made

[tutuu]

[VOTE: Mr Radishes] aubergine

like look at this shit, Made is basically suiciding so that Guillotine doesn't die

let me double check the votes

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Mr Radishes] aubergine

like look at this shit, Made is basically suiciding so that Guillotine doesn't die

let me double check the votes

After I moved to MR it was 6/4/3 Made/Guillotine/MR, and once Made moved, it was 6/3/4, so Made's vote didn't really un-self-pres. It was very close to EoD, but in the moment, to me it felt like a MR CFD would have been possible. This is one reason I am thinking MR may just be town not trying super hard right now, and why Martin/Guillotine is potentially scum.

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Master Radish] aubergine I don't like how quiet the thread is leading up to a Made or Guillotine lunch...

[VOTE: Mr Radishes] aubergine

last minute useless vote on MR (from made) instead of self-pressing to the top competing wagon guillo

also that vote from seanzie doesnt look good

Yes, I agree my vote doesn't look good. It felt to me like the wolves were sitting there laughing at two town wagons though. If a wolf was about to be chopped, I would have expected a bit more movement in the thread before EoD, but it was really quiet and it was creeping me out.

[tutuu]

eod1 votes:

guillotine - 3 - nook, MR, LC
Made - 6 - epi, dizzy, julie, hally, tutuu, guillo
MR - 4 - marmot, tsp, made, seanzie

before made voted MR he was on guillotine
before seanzie voted MR he was on guillotine
(both of these votes happened 2 minutes before EoD)
Hally also voted Made 5 minutes before EoD, before that they were on radish



so, 5 minutes before eod, this is how wagons looked like:

guillotine - 5 - nook, MR, LC, made, seanzie
Made - 5 - epi, dizzy, julie, tutuu, guillo
MR - 3 - marmot, tsp, hally

then hally switches to Made, forming these wagons

guillotine - 5 - nook, MR, LC, made, seanzie
Made - 6 - epi, dizzy, julie, tutuu, guillo, hally
MR - 2 - marmot, tsp

then 2 minutes before eod seanzie and made switch to MR, forming these wagons

guillotine - 3 - nook, MR, LC
Made - 6 - epi, dizzy, julie, tutuu, guillo, hally
MR - 4 - marmot, tsp, made, seanzie

if guillo was town, there was no reason for made not to stay there, he just cemented his own death by switching to MR

am i wrong to think this?

his vote switch happend at the same time as seanzie, even if they are partnered in wolf chat, they would have known they had not enough votes to avoid wolf yeet

even if they aren't partnered in wolf chat, from Made's pov he's only putting MR at 3 votes

i believe that made just got himself killed to make Guillo (the mafia PR) look good off of his flip

[tutuu]

[VOTE: Master Radish] aubergine I don't like how quiet the thread is leading up to a Made or Guillotine lunch...

[VOTE: Mr Radishes] aubergine

last minute useless vote on MR (from made) instead of self-pressing to the top competing wagon guillo

also that vote from seanzie doesnt look good

Yes, I agree my vote doesn't look good. It felt to me like the wolves were sitting there laughing at two town wagons though. If a wolf was about to be chopped, I would have expected a bit more movement in the thread before EoD, but it was really quiet and it was creeping me out.

pls vote martin he mafia

[juliets]

So which way to go tomorrow, I need to mentally sift for a bit before deciding.

Does this involve literally running your brain through a sift?

I mentally imagine the process as a sieve where the solids stay in it and the liquid goes through.

Regarding TSP, I regard him as town because of the whole way his claim went. Someone asked him if he had done it and it flowed from there. You made a point that we might have a mafia vig and I haven't made up my mind how I feel about that. Seems over powered is my first gut reaction but I'll think about it.

[tutuu]

@Epignosis @Marmot @juliets @Long Con @Master Radishes @TonyStarkPrime i believe MR is spewed town and guillotine is spewed mafia pls vote martin pls

[tutuu]

I'm licking my lips in anticipation.

I like the cut of your jib.

also, does MR open wolf like this as town? I've played with him once before, but I feel like I would of noticed some bull like this-- This and the rest of his ISO

@Long Con @TonyStarkPrime this isnt how partners talk to each other

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Master Radish] aubergine I don't like how quiet the thread is leading up to a Made or Guillotine lunch...

[VOTE: Mr Radishes] aubergine

last minute useless vote on MR (from made) instead of self-pressing to the top competing wagon guillo

also that vote from seanzie doesnt look good

Yes, I agree my vote doesn't look good. It felt to me like the wolves were sitting there laughing at two town wagons though. If a wolf was about to be chopped, I would have expected a bit more movement in the thread before EoD, but it was really quiet and it was creeping me out.

pls vote martin he mafia

He is my second choice after Epi, and in many people's PoEs, so if an Epi vote isn't getting support and Martin is a viable wagon, my vote will probably be there.

For the record, I can't say for sure, but I think Made saw my vote before he moved. I submitted it to the poll before posting it, so the timestamps are slightly off. I feel like there was at least a minute after I moved before Made did. Hard to tell for sure though.

[tutuu]

[VOTE: Master Radish] aubergine I don't like how quiet the thread is leading up to a Made or Guillotine lunch...

[VOTE: Mr Radishes] aubergine

last minute useless vote on MR (from made) instead of self-pressing to the top competing wagon guillo

also that vote from seanzie doesnt look good

Yes, I agree my vote doesn't look good. It felt to me like the wolves were sitting there laughing at two town wagons though. If a wolf was about to be chopped, I would have expected a bit more movement in the thread before EoD, but it was really quiet and it was creeping me out.

pls vote martin he mafia

He is my second choice after Epi, and in many people's PoEs, so if an Epi vote isn't getting support and Martin is a viable wagon, my vote will probably be there.

For the record, I can't say for sure, but I think Made saw my vote before he moved. I submitted it to the poll before posting it, so the timestamps are slightly off. I feel like there was at least a minute after I moved before Made did. Hard to tell for sure though.

this info is good to know, thanks

[tutuu]

even more of a reason for u to think guillo is spewed mafia imo

[Seanzie]

even more of a reason for u to think guillo is spewed mafia imo

Like I said, Guillotine is my second choice. Epi seems more dangerous right now though, and I am really concerned that people aren't looking in that direction. Do you have any good reasons to think Epi is town? Sorry if you've already said so, but your ISO is hard to read because it is so long:P

[Marmot]

@Epignosis @Marmot @juliets @Long Con @Master Radishes @TonyStarkPrime i believe MR is spewed town and guillotine is spewed mafia pls vote martin pls

I don't agree with everything you pointed out, but I agree enough.

At EOD, it was sean, Made and I around, and I think Hally too. Sean and Made were both already voting for Guillo, so they woulda had to convince Hally and I to swap our votes to Guillo when they were on Made and MR respectively.

If sean is scum, he did a very good job encouraging chaos at the EOD.

[tutuu]

even more of a reason for u to think guillo is spewed mafia imo

Like I said, Guillotine is my second choice. Epi seems more dangerous right now though, and I am really concerned that people aren't looking in that direction. Do you have any good reasons to think Epi is town? Sorry if you've already said so, but your ISO is hard to read because it is so long:P

yes - i have experience with epi and he is playing in the exact same way he played that one time i saw him town

additionally

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

Tell me why this is wrong.

You're wrong. Tell me why you're right.
(ur not)

this doesn't look partnery. this looks to me like a wolf begging a town to unvote him / trying to manipulate a town into unvoting him

additionally just look at the amount of effort epi has put in, the amount of ISOing he did and content and stuff he did

its just towny imo, especially after a wolf death

[Marmot]

Is it just Sean and Guillo/Martin? Normally if you have a top 2 poe, you're fine voting either option?