Bike [END]

[tutuu]

Is it just Sean and Guillo/Martin? Normally if you have a top 2 poe, you're fine voting either option?

guillo is outed mafia in my opinion

after that i'd have to think between sean and tony

if sean is mafia he is making a ton of towny sounding posts

i dont think tony has towny sounding posts, i think his posts sound scummy, but i cant ignore the townyness of his claim

but i think its one of them

(but im not fine voting either option, i want guillo)

[Marmot]

If you think Epignosis ISO'ing everyone's interactions with Made after his flip is townie, I would like to point out he'd absolutely do that as scum.

If there are other reasons you think he's town, fine I get it.


I agree sean's extremely townie, I'm probably just tin-foiling. :P

[tutuu]

okay fine we can have epi in the backburner. let's consider him eventually

[Seanzie]

even more of a reason for u to think guillo is spewed mafia imo

Like I said, Guillotine is my second choice. Epi seems more dangerous right now though, and I am really concerned that people aren't looking in that direction. Do you have any good reasons to think Epi is town? Sorry if you've already said so, but your ISO is hard to read because it is so long:P

yes - i have experience with epi and he is playing in the exact same way he played that one time i saw him town

additionally

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

Tell me why this is wrong.

You're wrong. Tell me why you're right.
(ur not)

this doesn't look partnery. this looks to me like a wolf begging a town to unvote him / trying to manipulate a town into unvoting him

additionally just look at the amount of effort epi has put in, the amount of ISOing he did and content and stuff he did

its just towny imo, especially after a wolf death

Have you seen Epi as scum? It sounds like he from how people described him, he is pretty good as scum.

As LC pointed out, Epi's long ISO posts N1 look good on face value, but are kind of confusing and it isn't clear what he is concluding. He quotes a bunch, but then his conclusions are all like "I am putting this person in horny jail" or "They get to play with a headless doll", and when asked to clarify what these things mean, if they are good or bad, he refused.

Many of his posts are like this; he has a lot in them, but leaves it up to the reader to connect the dots and make the conclusions. It is easy to look towny when you do this because townfolk will think they are coming to the same conclusions as Epi, even though different people can read the same post and come to different conclusions, all thinking that they agree with Epi.

[tutuu]

tutuu
Hally
juliets

Long Con
Marmot
Master Radishes

Epignosis

Seanzie
TonyStarkPrime

MartinGG99

[Marmot]

Back-burner Epi, I like it

[Marmot]

even more of a reason for u to think guillo is spewed mafia imo

Like I said, Guillotine is my second choice. Epi seems more dangerous right now though, and I am really concerned that people aren't looking in that direction. Do you have any good reasons to think Epi is town? Sorry if you've already said so, but your ISO is hard to read because it is so long:P

yes - i have experience with epi and he is playing in the exact same way he played that one time i saw him town

additionally

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

Tell me why this is wrong.

You're wrong. Tell me why you're right.
(ur not)

this doesn't look partnery. this looks to me like a wolf begging a town to unvote him / trying to manipulate a town into unvoting him

additionally just look at the amount of effort epi has put in, the amount of ISOing he did and content and stuff he did

its just towny imo, especially after a wolf death

Have you seen Epi as scum? It sounds like he from how people described him, he is pretty good as scum.

As LC pointed out, Epi's long ISO posts N1 look good on face value, but are kind of confusing and it isn't clear what he is concluding. He quotes a bunch, but then his conclusions are all like "I am putting this person in horny jail" or "They get to play with a headless doll", and when asked to clarify what these things mean, if they are good or bad, he refused.

Many of his posts are like this; he has a lot in them, but leaves it up to the reader to connect the dots and make the conclusions. It is easy to look towny when you do this because townfolk will think they are coming to the same conclusions as Epi, even though different people can read the same post and come to different conclusions, all thinking that they agree with Epi.

Epignosis is extremely hard to chop. This is primarily because as town, his ability to read players is good, and his ability to say what he means to say, and also to say a lot with very little are both exceptional. And he's diligent. He never gets mischopped as town because of this, and he's usually nk'd by Day 3 anyway, so the option never remains open.

As scum, he does a very good job of replicating this meta.


He's far and away the highest winning player on this site for a reason.

[Marmot]

tutuu'ss new avatar = can't stop won't stop until scum are dead

[tutuu]

tutuu'ss new avatar = can't stop won't stop until scum are dead

lmao <3

[Hally]

New idea: vig is not town.

Why?

TSP shot somebody who was in sort of in the poe, but not clearly in the poe. Also, since we've brought up the point that pr's do not belong to a specific alignment, the vig is not inherently town. Shooting Nanook as a scum-aligned vig sort of makes sense if the player who did it planned on claiming it.



I'm not thrilled about this idea, but it should be acknowleged.

theoretically what you say makes sense in terms of the nature of the shot. but practically speaking i would be very surprised if jay included a scum vig in a 13er he ran. it just isn’t balanced

[juliets]

New idea: vig is not town.

Why?

TSP shot somebody who was in sort of in the poe, but not clearly in the poe. Also, since we've brought up the point that pr's do not belong to a specific alignment, the vig is not inherently town. Shooting Nanook as a scum-aligned vig sort of makes sense if the player who did it planned on claiming it.



I'm not thrilled about this idea, but it should be acknowleged.

theoretically what you say makes sense in terms of the nature of the shot. but practically speaking i would be very surprised if jay included a scum vig in a 13er he ran. it just isn’t balanced

What if it was a 1 shot mafia vig? Would that still be unbalanced? (I am not very knowledgeable about balance issues)

[Hally]

New idea: vig is not town.

Why?

TSP shot somebody who was in sort of in the poe, but not clearly in the poe. Also, since we've brought up the point that pr's do not belong to a specific alignment, the vig is not inherently town. Shooting Nanook as a scum-aligned vig sort of makes sense if the player who did it planned on claiming it.



I'm not thrilled about this idea, but it should be acknowleged.

theoretically what you say makes sense in terms of the nature of the shot. but practically speaking i would be very surprised if jay included a scum vig in a 13er he ran. it just isn’t balanced

What if it was a 1 shot mafia vig? Would that still be unbalanced? (I am not very knowledgeable about balance issues)

well let’s see if there’s another vig shot tonight. but no, a 1-shot scum vig in a 13er is not balanced. giving scum extra kp in a 13er is silly because it’s essentially a second nk. and that means they have to mislim one less person. it’s not a thing. every setup i’ve ever seen that has a scum one-shot vig, town is given an extra member to make up for it. and then this would be a 14er not a 13er

also jay is an experienced host who tends to dislike crazy stuff in setups. and he specified that mechanical intrigue would be minimal. in order for a 13er with a scum vig to be balanced town would have to be loaded. but town can’t ve loaded because a heist only allows for three roles, and one of them would be the scum vig meaning town gets only two roles meaning it’s impossible to balance it really. and it’s just silly. and i can almost guarantee jay would not do it

[Hally]

we should eliminate martin today imo. i agree with tutuu

tony is town off the claim. he just is. i know we all wanted him to be scum but let’s be real here

radishes is meh but has things re: made going for him

everyone else is more villagery than those people

so martin is the correct kill. let’s make it happen please

[Marmot]

I don't think we can say it's not balanced without knowing what other roles are in the game.

[Hally]

I don't think we can say it's not balanced without knowing what other roles are in the game.

i disagree

[Marmot]

Your perspective makes sense, it's just not one that I share.

[Hally]

tony is not dying today. let’s see if he can shoot N2 and who he goes for and then go from there. but he really is always town here and never the correct elimination today

[Hally]

Your perspective makes sense, it's just not one that I share.

that’s ok

[Hally]

do we all agree at least that if tony can shoot again he is always town?

[Marmot]

Only if he shoots Hally

[juliets]

we should eliminate martin today imo. i agree with tutuu

tony is town off the claim. he just is. i know we all wanted him to be scum but let’s be real here

radishes is meh but has things re: made going for him

everyone else is more villagery than those people

so martin is the correct kill. let’s make it happen please

Ok I'm convinced on Martin.

[Epignosis]

Hello clowns. I am here.

[Marmot]

That was post number 2020 of the game. It's only appropriate that we ignore it and move on.

[juliets]

do we all agree at least that if tony can shoot again he is always town?

yes. And thank you @tutuu for the balance perspective.

[Marmot]

[VOTE: Martin] aubergine


Hello Epignosis

[Epignosis]

Before I get down to business

Our daughter has never asked for a video game for Christmas until recently, so we got her Sims 4.

She's got us all participating and making people.

She has us playing Barbie on the computer. That's all this shit is. Digital Barbie. And I'm doing it.

[juliets]

also

[VOTE: Martin] aubergine

And hi Epi, I am on my way out but it's nothing personal. I'm here way later than usual and I'm pooped. And lol about Abigail!

[Epignosis]

Seanzie has a grievance with me. Let me find that and address it.

[Epignosis]

Why was he not civilian in your eyes?

Made did nothing to make me believe otherwise.

I mean, this may or may not be true, but it is hard to judge if you are town or not based off responses like this. Were there specific things you were looking for? Did Made do ANYTHING towny that you noticed? Did Made to ANYTHING scummy that you noticed? Is there any reason to believe that your vote was not TMI?

I don't care what's hard to judge or not hard to judge. I don't answer on the basis of how easy it is to judge something. I answered the question.

I already said I voted Made and fucked off to bed. I didn't think much about it.

When I came back, Made was the big consensus. It worked out. I'll take the dub however I get it.

Are you concerned about me figuring out if you are town or not?

No, I'm not concerned.

[Seanzie]

Why was he not civilian in your eyes?

Made did nothing to make me believe otherwise.

I mean, this may or may not be true, but it is hard to judge if you are town or not based off responses like this. Were there specific things you were looking for? Did Made do ANYTHING towny that you noticed? Did Made to ANYTHING scummy that you noticed? Is there any reason to believe that your vote was not TMI?

I don't care what's hard to judge or not hard to judge. I don't answer on the basis of how easy it is to judge something. I answered the question.

I already said I voted Made and fucked off to bed. I didn't think much about it.

When I came back, Made was the big consensus. It worked out. I'll take the dub however I get it.

Are you concerned about me figuring out if you are town or not?

No, I'm not concerned.

Why not? You quoted a post, but it is unclear what you are trying to communicate with it. What does it mean that I am sharing a headless doll?

When did you stop in near EoD1? Was it like 15 minutes before the vote, an hour before EoD? 6 hours before EoD?

[Epignosis]

@Seanzie

How do you feel about Long Con and Master Radishes together?

How many wolves do you see in there?

I think it is possible, and neither LC or MR are in my towncore, but I think there are more likely options. In the moment, I really did feel like Made wanted a MR CFD at EoD1, so I have a sneaking suspicion MR is town. LC has also asked me a few good questions getting me to doubt my light town read on MR, and I don't think LC would do that if they were teamed. These things can be explained by bussing, which is why I haven't cleared either of them, but I am more concerned about you and Epignosis.

Especially since LC and I are mindmelding a bit about Epi. Epi's posts have that political feel, where it looks like he is saying a lot, but the reader needs to fill in the blanks, so it is easy to interpret Epi's posts how we want to interpret them. Maybe Epi is just like that, but I've seen strong wolves use that sort of posting technique to make themselves look towny.

How do you feel about Epi?

You accused me of the politician thing Day 1 only to realize you missed my joke when someone else pointed it out to you. I don't think I sound like a politician, and I don't think you believe I sound like one either. What blanks need filling in?

If you're talking about my humorous manner of sorting people, that's not filling in the blanks. That's reading comprehension. My analysis is there for people to conveniently draw their own conclusions, not steal mine.

I don't care about how I look. I care about winning.

[Epignosis]

Why was he not civilian in your eyes?

Made did nothing to make me believe otherwise.

I mean, this may or may not be true, but it is hard to judge if you are town or not based off responses like this. Were there specific things you were looking for? Did Made do ANYTHING towny that you noticed? Did Made to ANYTHING scummy that you noticed? Is there any reason to believe that your vote was not TMI?

I don't care what's hard to judge or not hard to judge. I don't answer on the basis of how easy it is to judge something. I answered the question.

I already said I voted Made and fucked off to bed. I didn't think much about it.

When I came back, Made was the big consensus. It worked out. I'll take the dub however I get it.

When did you come back to the thread D1?

While I was cooking.

[Epignosis]

Why was he not civilian in your eyes?

Made did nothing to make me believe otherwise.

I mean, this may or may not be true, but it is hard to judge if you are town or not based off responses like this. Were there specific things you were looking for? Did Made do ANYTHING towny that you noticed? Did Made to ANYTHING scummy that you noticed? Is there any reason to believe that your vote was not TMI?

I don't care what's hard to judge or not hard to judge. I don't answer on the basis of how easy it is to judge something. I answered the question.

I already said I voted Made and fucked off to bed. I didn't think much about it.

When I came back, Made was the big consensus. It worked out. I'll take the dub however I get it.

Are you concerned about me figuring out if you are town or not?

No, I'm not concerned.

Why not? You quoted a post, but it is unclear what you are trying to communicate with it. What does it mean that I am sharing a headless doll?

When did you stop in near EoD1? Was it like 15 minutes before the vote, an hour before EoD? 6 hours before EoD?

Oh, you want a specific time. Can't help you there.

Best I can say is between 5:30pm EST and lock.

[Epignosis]

Okay, so I actually read a bit more of the context for what I was reading earlier.

I didn't realize Epi just simply OMGUS voted Marmot.

Not the case at all.

[Epignosis]

Okay, so I actually read a bit more of the context for what I was reading earlier.

I didn't realize Epi just simply OMGUS voted Marmot.

Not the case at all.

There's a link there.

[Epignosis]

Okay, so I actually read a bit more of the context for what I was reading earlier.

I didn't realize Epi just simply OMGUS voted Marmot.

What do you think of Epi's votes in general? Do you think all his hard work on Night 1 makes him towny? I don't. He just quotes a bunch of posts and concludes gibberish. I don't see at all what everyone is townreading about him. It's like his obstinance is earning applause and respectful nods.

TBH I kinda felt with his vote flying earlier at early D1 (Like 5 times across 150 posts of the thread or so) was him indicative of having no specific scum agenda.

That's also the kind of feel I get from most of his comments. Just no agenda. Also, the following doesn't seem like the kind of thing you do to a scum teammate

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

Tell me why this is wrong.

And I will hear what you have to say tomorrow.

He's not capitalizing on it at all. And when the night phase hits:

I'd rather be lucky than good.

My time is limited. I'll do what I can.

He's not really taking credit for it.

What is there to take credit for? The last dart he threw blindly hit the secret number on the board? Epi has played enough to know that he's not going to squeeze blood from a stone.

Epi is one of the only player that I know if strongly anti-bussing. I usually suggest it on very early in the game when I'm scum, but if Epi's on the team, he belittles the idea.

Which is it?

[Epignosis]

even more of a reason for u to think guillo is spewed mafia imo

Like I said, Guillotine is my second choice. Epi seems more dangerous right now though, and I am really concerned that people aren't looking in that direction. Do you have any good reasons to think Epi is town? Sorry if you've already said so, but your ISO is hard to read because it is so long:P

How do I seem more dangerous?

[Hally]

@MartinGG99 i want to apologize again for frustrating you earlier

have you explained your marmot vote?

[Hally]

i realize your vote is not currently on marmot. i’m just interested in why you voted him

[Marmot]

Okay, so I actually read a bit more of the context for what I was reading earlier.

I didn't realize Epi just simply OMGUS voted Marmot.

[Marmot]

I guess that doesn't fully explain it, but he did say that.

[Epignosis]

okay fine we can have epi in the backburner. let's consider him eventually

That's been my career in a nutshell.

[Hally]

I guess that doesn't fully explain it, but he did say that.

that quote is about epi though, not you

[Epignosis]

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

[Seanzie]

@Seanzie

How do you feel about Long Con and Master Radishes together?

How many wolves do you see in there?

I think it is possible, and neither LC or MR are in my towncore, but I think there are more likely options. In the moment, I really did feel like Made wanted a MR CFD at EoD1, so I have a sneaking suspicion MR is town. LC has also asked me a few good questions getting me to doubt my light town read on MR, and I don't think LC would do that if they were teamed. These things can be explained by bussing, which is why I haven't cleared either of them, but I am more concerned about you and Epignosis.

Especially since LC and I are mindmelding a bit about Epi. Epi's posts have that political feel, where it looks like he is saying a lot, but the reader needs to fill in the blanks, so it is easy to interpret Epi's posts how we want to interpret them. Maybe Epi is just like that, but I've seen strong wolves use that sort of posting technique to make themselves look towny.

How do you feel about Epi?

You accused me of the politician thing Day 1 only to realize you missed my joke when someone else pointed it out to you. I don't think I sound like a politician, and I don't think you believe I sound like one either. What blanks need filling in?

If you're talking about my humorous manner of sorting people, that's not filling in the blanks. That's reading comprehension. My analysis is there for people to conveniently draw their own conclusions, not steal mine.

I don't care about how I look. I care about winning.

I've gotten that politician feeling from you a lot. For example, D1 you were jumping your vote around, and never really gave any reason to be voting here or there. I understand that D1 sometimes vote hopping can help make reactions and sort feelings, but over and over again, I read your posts and I don't know what you are thinking. Another example is that post you just quoted for Marmot. You gave it apparently as a reason why you voted Marmot, but the post itself doesn't take a stance on Marmot, and seems to provide evidence either way. What changed with regard to Marmot to trigger you to vote there rather than LC or Guillotine?

Does helping other townfolk find you as town help town win?

[Seanzie]

even more of a reason for u to think guillo is spewed mafia imo

Like I said, Guillotine is my second choice. Epi seems more dangerous right now though, and I am really concerned that people aren't looking in that direction. Do you have any good reasons to think Epi is town? Sorry if you've already said so, but your ISO is hard to read because it is so long:P

How do I seem more dangerous?

Because people seem to have respect for your scum game, and I don't understand the reasons why some people are finding you towny.

[Marmot]

I read through Guillo's iso, and I still feel content voting for him. He spent a lot of time discussing what players should or shouldn't do as mafia or town, and very little time making reads. Additionally, this is the only time he interacted with Made.

Ok i understand. Butting in to answer questions meant for others is generally a scum tell, be careful.

It totally isn't imo. This is kind of what I mean with using "general scum tells" that are meant to apply to everyone. I don't know, it's not my thing. But it's ok if it works for you.

I don't tend to be careful. =p

but one step further, policy scum tells are really only useful in context- unless you're mafia in which case it's always useful

[VOTE: Guillotine] aubergine

explain

Then, Guillo voted for Made out of preservation. That piece of the puzzle is fine, anyone would do that. It's the lack of any interaction before that.


I feel bad for voting Martin for something entirely out of his control, but this does look like teammate compatibility. Then again, Martin did make the argument to me that scum are likely to unintentionally ignore each other in the thread, so

[Seanzie]

Made did nothing to make me believe otherwise.

I mean, this may or may not be true, but it is hard to judge if you are town or not based off responses like this. Were there specific things you were looking for? Did Made do ANYTHING towny that you noticed? Did Made to ANYTHING scummy that you noticed? Is there any reason to believe that your vote was not TMI?

I don't care what's hard to judge or not hard to judge. I don't answer on the basis of how easy it is to judge something. I answered the question.

I already said I voted Made and fucked off to bed. I didn't think much about it.

When I came back, Made was the big consensus. It worked out. I'll take the dub however I get it.

Are you concerned about me figuring out if you are town or not?

No, I'm not concerned.

Why not? You quoted a post, but it is unclear what you are trying to communicate with it. What does it mean that I am sharing a headless doll?

When did you stop in near EoD1? Was it like 15 minutes before the vote, an hour before EoD? 6 hours before EoD?

Oh, you want a specific time. Can't help you there.

Best I can say is between 5:30pm EST and lock.

Hmm... Okay, so the vote count was probably something like 6/5/2 Made/Guillotine/MR? Since you don't seem to have a great reason why you voted Made, were you worried about choosing between Made and Guillotine when you checked in?

[Hally]

honestly gth i feel like epi is just town here. i haven’t really been able to grasp the points against him. they don’t really resonate with me and to me epi has been playing his town game

i think it’s more likely marmot or lc are the “deep wolf” over epi. that’s just my feeling

[Marmot]

I guess that doesn't fully explain it, but he did say that.

that quote is about epi though, not you

I asked him why he voted for me, and I interpreted that response as him saying he'd sheeped Epi's vote, not realizing Epi's vote was an OMGUS vote.