Bread Mafia [Game Over]

[MacDougall]

jesus you quoted me like 12 times

soz i like u

[Alison]

no friends I am afraid that le Daughter is le mafia that is le truth of le matter

She got a lot townier later on.

[MacDougall]

unless ur gaslighting them...

sorry y'all be we're pretty far from a towncore, and tbh it's a dangerous to imply otherwise

Esooa: I think X is false.
Alison: If we accept that X, then Y is a natural conclusion.
Esooa: I disagree with Y tbh.
Alison: Well yeah, obviously, you disagree with X, so you would have no reason to think Y was true.

X = "tutuu is town", Y = "JJJ is town".

This is not gaslighting and it's a reach to say so.

Why don't you believe in the towncore idea?

unless ur gaslighting them...

sorry y'all be we're pretty far from a towncore, and tbh it's a dangerous to imply otherwise

nah it's fine, we go with it for a few days, if shit goes wrong we reevaluate

let's say it this way: If we mislynch, we should reevaluate everything.

I think Alison is shifty. yes, her/your if x then y makes sense, but what i'm saying is that's something that helps you/her, alison, to determine if she trust Esooa's read. it feels over explainy.
I think nutella is shifty because of interaction with JJJ who is my biggest scum read
I think i trust tutuu most, which is a 180 from where i was like 3 pages

I don't have enough trust in anyone to make a towncore, especially one based on mindmelds when they aren't alignment indicative.

I also also don't like how Alison positioned Mac (i think it was alison?) as a person who could break up towncore if he shows up and is bad. It implies that the only reason someone would have to break up a towncore would be because they're bad.

This all feels too fast and far too loose and i'm not liking none of it at towncore building stage

I can tell you 100% nutella and alison are lockest of lock town. Jay is near lock town. tutuu is actually kinda pingy but also very towny its weird.

[MacDougall]

no friends I am afraid that le Daughter is le mafia that is le truth of le matter

She got a lot townier later on.

i saw a lil bit but im not sold yet

[Alison]

I actually think Made is the highest scum equity player here because they can be scum in like every world but Michelle/Omega etc. have their scum equity reduced if Made isn't scum (becauase it doesn't make sense to pocket or TMI him in that situation)

nah u just wrong here, at least one of them literally did just TMI him... why do you think otherwise?

ATP I wrote this post, Made/Michelle/Omega were all suspected. If you're scum, under pressure, and a townie LHF is in bad shape, you don't stick your neck out to defend them and get called out for TMI. You just let 'em swing, save your own skin, and there's absolutely 0 accountability for their death.

Mafia TMI townies because they know that they're town and get caught trying to look good defending them. Michelle/DOO don't really look good or gain anything defending town!Made in that situation.

[MacDougall]

I actually think Made is the highest scum equity player here because they can be scum in like every world but Michelle/Omega etc. have their scum equity reduced if Made isn't scum (becauase it doesn't make sense to pocket or TMI him in that situation)

nah u just wrong here, at least one of them literally did just TMI him... why do you think otherwise?

ATP I wrote this post, Made/Michelle/Omega were all suspected. If you're scum, under pressure, and a townie LHF is in bad shape, you don't stick your neck out to defend them and get called out for TMI. You just let 'em swing, save your own skin, and there's absolutely 0 accountability for their death.

Mafia TMI townies because they know that they're town and get caught trying to look good defending them. Michelle/DOO don't really look good or gain anything defending town!Made in that situation.

I don't think Michelle or Omega were actually fully salient of the fact they were under pressure honestly. It was that a lot of people were a little bit sketch on them. Nobody was tunneling or trying to actually damage them. I don't think they felt particularly like they should have been considerate of such a detailed thing. You are probably placing your own mafia meta onto your expectations of them I feel.

[MacDougall]

Also I actually think the read that Michelle made on Made was sarcasm in hindsight.

[Alison]

lol dude i know i can, you literally showed me how you play mafia. get fucked kid if youre mafia this game youre as good as toast

lock town

probs your only bad take so far

I have a less strong reaction to that post now especially given Esooa's testimony about her meta but I townread it at the time because the spike in hostility was so strong, and it's not the same kind of aggression you see from scum players trying to get people off their back either. It's just pure ego coming from someone who knows they're town and genuinely resents the suspicion placed on them.

[MacDougall]

this game is unwinnable for mafia fmpov because Nutella, Alison, SPF, Nanook are all obvious town and Jay and Esooa are not far behind them. As long as y'all play nice with me this game is going to be ez mode.

[MacDougall]

lol dude i know i can, you literally showed me how you play mafia. get fucked kid if youre mafia this game youre as good as toast

lock town

probs your only bad take so far

I have a less strong reaction to that post now especially given Esooa's testimony about her meta but I townread it at the time because the spike in hostility was so strong, and it's not the same kind of aggression you see from scum players trying to get people off their back either. It's just pure ego coming from someone who knows they're town and genuinely resents the suspicion placed on them.

There was zero hostility. It was competitive enthusiasm. It might have been ego driven but they don't have to be town to feel challenged by that sentiment as it was and was intended to belittle her.

[MacDougall]

The only townie looking person who keeps pushing into the towncore is Tutuu so I can't clear her but damn she's townie.

[MacDougall]

me and esooa town
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost4592956

im mafia, esooa town
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/29268

kinda townie tho

[Alison]

I actually think Made is the highest scum equity player here because they can be scum in like every world but Michelle/Omega etc. have their scum equity reduced if Made isn't scum (becauase it doesn't make sense to pocket or TMI him in that situation)

nah u just wrong here, at least one of them literally did just TMI him... why do you think otherwise?

ATP I wrote this post, Made/Michelle/Omega were all suspected. If you're scum, under pressure, and a townie LHF is in bad shape, you don't stick your neck out to defend them and get called out for TMI. You just let 'em swing, save your own skin, and there's absolutely 0 accountability for their death.

Mafia TMI townies because they know that they're town and get caught trying to look good defending them. Michelle/DOO don't really look good or gain anything defending town!Made in that situation.

I don't think Michelle or Omega were actually fully salient of the fact they were under pressure honestly. It was that a lot of people were a little bit sketch on them. Nobody was tunneling or trying to actually damage them. I don't think they felt particularly like they should have been considerate of such a detailed thing. You are probably placing your own mafia meta onto your expectations of them I feel.

Re: projecting my own playstyle on them, maybe, yeah. But I give them enough credit to be able to read the room and know that they're the scummiest people in it. Michelle is experienced, and according to nutella DOO is the alt of someone who has been around the block. They aren't D1 newbie newbs. And in a game with such strong trust between vocal players with a lot of presence, "a lot of people are a little bit sketch on you" is pretty big pressure, just because everyone else is townread so hard.

[MacDougall]

i think you're overestimating your perspective of what the gamestate was at the time tbh. I just read through it, at the time the cards were not laid out as clearly as you are insinuating. The towncore level shit actually came after and in some way as a response to that.

[MacDougall]

I do think Ellie is town though.

I feel like it's nearly impossible for Michelle and DoO to both be though. As strange as it sounds because of POE.

[MacDougall]

Okay y'all. Write out your hypotetical towncores, because i don't think they line up.

Like Alison, SPF isn't even in your towncore???

Alison
Nutella
SPF
Nanook
Jay
Esooa
You

[EllieDelight]

it's just my fragile ego getting bruised a bit i promise lol. loving the posts so far mac, i hope you keep en coming

[MacDougall]

I’m already in the towncore and Mac hasn’t even show up to Mason with me yet

What a world we live in

[MacDougall]

I am going to trust Eso to read Ellie.

I am going to trust nutella to read Long Con.

I am going to trust Nanook to read MacDougall.

I have no reliable method of reading Grog or spf or JJJ and I wish I did. I think I can get around to Made on my own. I dunno who am I missing.

I reckon you have this backwards ngl

[MacDougall]

so you're just going to copy other people's reads?

Fwiw when you have strong meta on players you can actually get to a level of confidence on a player where you drop all tinfoil and if you know that player has a similar level of skill reading another it is pro town and good play to do what she did there. There's no point in sussing her for that it's NAI for anyone who has played as much as she has.

[Alison]

i think you're overestimating your perspective of what the gamestate was at the time tbh. I just read through it, at the time the cards were not laid out as clearly as you are insinuating. The towncore level shit actually came after and in some way as a response to that.

tbh gamestates always feel different in the moment vs when you're catching up afterwards

all I can say it's that's the vibe I got and it's why I said what I said

at any rate, Esooa saying that Ellie has scum meta of using hostility to get townread has nullified my old read so it doesn't matter now.

[MacDougall]

the thing that bothers me about made's issue with the "towncore" is that it feels like a half-finished thought

~if~ made believes that the towncore is coming from a place of manufactured consent, it logically follows that multiple people approving of the town-core are mafia

but i don't see much intent on their part to figure out who would be disingenuously supporting the towncore - it feels like a broad complaint that puts a lot of peoples alignment into question without getting into specifics

that's the sneaky part. I don't think that towncore is a bad idea generally. Where the manufactored consent is coming from for me is in the concensus that a towncore exist this game, where it's seemly like there isn't one.

like if everyone has their own different towncore, there is no towncore.

I think the maliciousness comes from assuming there is one.

Is anyone following my line of reasoning at least?

It is my opinion that towncore vs. poe is never a bad idea. Does it win 100% of the time? Hell no. Does it win more than when you play a game in any other way? Yes, drastically so. It is the ultra process and games without it are hellscapes of wifom, impulse reads, tunneling and scumwins.

[MacDougall]

i think you're overestimating your perspective of what the gamestate was at the time tbh. I just read through it, at the time the cards were not laid out as clearly as you are insinuating. The towncore level shit actually came after and in some way as a response to that.

tbh gamestates always feel different in the moment vs when you're catching up afterwards

all I can say it's that's the vibe I got and it's why I said what I said

at any rate, Esooa saying that Ellie has scum meta of using hostility to get townread has nullified my old read so it doesn't matter now.

fair e-nuff homie

[Alison]

Actually Mac why is Made in your towncore? Just because he reversed his read on you after you started annoying him?

[MacDougall]

idk i always felt like copying other people's reads is scummy. obviously im wrong. so im sorry tutuu, that was needlessly rude. my bad.

ah i am redundant

also you were not at all rude

[MacDougall]

Actually Mac why is Made in your towncore? Just because he reversed his read on you after you started annoying him?

yeah it was VERY townie

[tutuu]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME hey buddy lets not call our votes for the rest of the game. Thats such an us thing to do. I will laugh

In like Flynn

Can I join

Yesss

Also waking up to 9 notifications makes me feel so warm and fuzzy and theyre mostly from mac i cant wait to read

[MacDougall]

like what kind of mafia who is trying to tunnel a townie decides that the moment they start pushing on them back in omgus is the time to drop the read while also subtly insulting them? the entire point of tunneling a townie is to get them to omgus you back so you can clog up the thread with nasty shit that everyone hates

[tutuu]

Sowwy accidental emoji on top (mobile)

[MacDougall]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME hey buddy lets not call our votes for the rest of the game. Thats such an us thing to do. I will laugh

In like Flynn

Can I join

Yesss

Also waking up to 9 notifications makes me feel so warm and fuzzy and theyre mostly from mac i cant wait to read

[MacDougall]

I think michelle might be town here, it feels like a meta read from my sub conscious lol

[MacDougall]

but all the town are scumreading her so maybe i am just wrong

[Alison]

I was briefly entertaining the world where Mac is scum with Made + LHF and he comes back to see the thread on fire and the scum team asking him what to do in scum chat, and his plan is to come in, post himself clear and go deep, and then make us all trust him on Made and bus the 3rd to try to salvage the situation.

I sorta think his read on Made is something he actually believes though, and it was thoughtful enough that I don't think it was some bullshit he made up on the spot when questioned about that read. So I'm off that idea now.

[staypositivefriend]

I think michelle might be town here, it feels like a meta read from my sub conscious lol

she kinda towntold earlier when i engaged w/her

[MacDougall]

Two other reasons to town read Made

1 - Made is more likely to be contrarian as town
2 - Made is out of his scum range already on volume imo

[Alison]

I think michelle might be town here, it feels like a meta read from my sub conscious lol

I relate to this and it's why I've treated Michelle with a softer approach lately.

I do also think that Michelle is the most likely person in the POE to self-resolve, which is why I have her as the last person to go through in there. Like, I could see her posting herself clear in D2 or D3. I can't see LC doing that.

[MacDougall]

I think michelle might be town here, it feels like a meta read from my sub conscious lol

she kinda towntold earlier when i engaged w/her

oh i am glad it was you who said this cuz it was ur scumread on her i was considering sheeping lol

[Alison]

I think michelle might be town here, it feels like a meta read from my sub conscious lol

she kinda towntold earlier when i engaged w/her

Where did she do that? Did I miss it?

[Alison]

Two other reasons to town read Made

1 - Made is more likely to be contrarian as town
2 - Made is out of his scum range already on volume imo

I don't recall Made being particularly contrarian in Shadow Corridors or Doppelgangsters though?

[MacDougall]

Actually I am just gonna say Tutuu can be in the towncore

[MacDougall]

Two other reasons to town read Made

1 - Made is more likely to be contrarian as town
2 - Made is out of his scum range already on volume imo

I don't recall Made being particularly contrarian in Shadow Corridors or Doppelgangsters though?

I do lol

[MacDougall]

Shadow Corridors anyway. I dont even know if I played Doppelgangsters. Did I?

[staypositivefriend]

I think michelle might be town here, it feels like a meta read from my sub conscious lol

she kinda towntold earlier when i engaged w/her

oh i am glad it was you who said this cuz it was ur scumread on her i was considering sheeping lol

lol it's not impossible for her to be scum but i find it less likely than i did about 10 pages ago - the two names i feel the most confident in being hits rn are long con and grogu

[MacDougall]

Man are you motherfuckers just this good at mafia that you have levelled up so much that y'all can pocket me now? Cuz this shit is ridic if it is what it seems.

[Alison]

Two other reasons to town read Made

1 - Made is more likely to be contrarian as town
2 - Made is out of his scum range already on volume imo

I don't recall Made being particularly contrarian in Shadow Corridors or Doppelgangsters though?

I do lol

What was he contrarian to in SC?

[MacDougall]

I think michelle might be town here, it feels like a meta read from my sub conscious lol

she kinda towntold earlier when i engaged w/her

oh i am glad it was you who said this cuz it was ur scumread on her i was considering sheeping lol

lol it's not impossible for her to be scum but i find it less likely than i did about 10 pages ago - the two names i feel the most confident in being hits rn are long con and grogu

I am on page 14

LC has at this point made 1 post i can recall
Grogu 0

Seems pretty ez but guess we shall see

[MacDougall]

Two other reasons to town read Made

1 - Made is more likely to be contrarian as town
2 - Made is out of his scum range already on volume imo

I don't recall Made being particularly contrarian in Shadow Corridors or Doppelgangsters though?

I do lol

What was he contrarian to in SC?

Me, several times.

[MacDougall]

Made is also the type of townie who will reserve judgement on what appears so in favour of sniffing around the periphery and will uncover hidden truths in otherwise clandestine things.

[Alison]

lol it's not impossible for her to be scum but i find it less likely than i did about 10 pages ago - the two names i feel the most confident in being hits rn are long con and grogu

Made is a suspect of mine too but Mac seems determined to shield him and has actual reasons so eh

[Alison]

I am on page 14

LC has at this point made 1 post i can recall
Grogu 0

Seems pretty ez but guess we shall see

counterpoint: nutella is scum reading LC

and LC is trying to act like he doesn't give a fuck about it