Bread Mafia [Game Over]

[DkKoba]

i was looking for an activity overview button cuz this forum is v similar to MS but cheers

[DkKoba]

HAHAHHAHAHAAH they fucking killed macd

[staypositivefriend]

Okay, well, that was the only ping, all my other notifications were just people quoting posts I made.

So my issue here is that Michelle is doing an awful lot of work/solving despite having a lot of pressure on her. I don't remember trying this hard to save herself in Champs finale when she was caught as scum, she just let her teammates bus her and maximize their cred. The situations are different and she might have felt pressured to do more here if her team is weak (eg. if it's Made/Michelle/Grogu), but I'm townreading this last burst of activity from her.

I agree broadly with the sentiment that DOOM's recent posts have been very good, and I am currently towncoring Esooa/nutella/tutuu/koba/nanook with fairly high confidence. I'm not scumreading SPF, but she hasn't made herself as raw town as she claimed she would be, and this particular post pinged me:

i'm going to bed but i'm probably parking my vote on michelle until she towntells. gnight

Because in this position, SPF was fairly confident Michelle was scum and making up nonsensical reasons ("you're lying about being drunk", etc.) to vote her. The "until she towntells" qualifier read to me as kinda hedgy, like she was leaving herself an out to get out of the wagon without too much scrutiny if she suddenly realizes Michelle is PR or that she'd look bad off Michelle's flip. @staypositivefriend can you elaborate a little about what sort of towntells Michelle could drop that would change your mind about her alignment at this point in time?

at the time, i didn't have any specific "towntells" in mind that michelle would need to drop - that was my drunken way of expressing that i felt that ~if~ michelle was town, then it was likely that she would organically reconsider and rethink the perspectives that she was outing

i could see a plausible world where michelle, as town, gets worked up about people voting her and concludes in the heat of the moment that anyone voting her is coming from a mafia POV. however, i found the world where michelle outed those reads and then ~continued~ to hold them for hours on end significantly less likely

the main thing that i was (and am) looking for was genuine reconsideration of the reads that she outed, or even a further analysis into why me/esooa/michelle made sense as a team. the main concern i have about michelle is that her gamesolving has not felt authentic to me, and i am searching for those moments of authenticity

[DkKoba]

i was pretty sad about LC being a mischop, but there's no direction to go but forward. my confidence is a little bit shook, so my plan for today is simply this:

find between 3-5 townreads that i can 100% confidently put into the "never re-evaluate until LYLO category"

i feel good about the "towncore" that we assembled yesterday, but the flip + the kill makes me want to re-evaluate some things and make sure that my foundation for this game is coming from the correct place. if i can just craft a game winning towncore, then i don't even need to focus my energy on sorting within the broadly scummy players

this is nothing new, but i just wanted to share where my head is at. i expect that ellie and esooa are going to thunderdome today, and if so, that's fine. i'm probably going to disengage from that thunderdome in favor of searching for solid townreads outside

bruh u were on fucking wagon what the fuck

[EllieDelight]

im changing my vote to made, i think the likelihood of him being scum is higher than Mich

Explain this in good detail.

You and Michelle could easily be teammates, and if Ellie can't genuinely give an explanation we just kill them both.

Mich could be town, like she's trying really REALLY hard for from my perspective looks like a failed mafia game. I'll still vote for her but I had taken it off earlier to avoid a hammer and am more comfortable having it go back on Made since he's 100% scum. Im not gonna get into why he is because ive already done a write up today but its all in my iso.

[Alison]

Everything with Made/Michelle/Ellie feels weird as shit honestly. Completely nonsensical reads, intentional wifoming/scumclaiming for no reason other than to mess with people's heads, hard shielding and deathtunnelling each other, AtE, I'm kind of done with it all. It's probably just some weird attempt to anti-spew/generate chaos because it's the only way they can win so I'm going to just kill them and let Marmot sort them out for me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Not particularly

Possibly in part because I don’t actually feel super strongly about most of my reads

I’m pretty much just taking a backseat and seeing if the current leaders push us to scum, if they don’t then I’ll try to course correct when it’s needed. Idk if that’s the correct way to play this game but it’s how I’m playing it anyways

Sure. I wanted to play the same way. Old instincts eventually take hold though.

[staypositivefriend]

i was pretty sad about LC being a mischop, but there's no direction to go but forward. my confidence is a little bit shook, so my plan for today is simply this:

find between 3-5 townreads that i can 100% confidently put into the "never re-evaluate until LYLO category"

i feel good about the "towncore" that we assembled yesterday, but the flip + the kill makes me want to re-evaluate some things and make sure that my foundation for this game is coming from the correct place. if i can just craft a game winning towncore, then i don't even need to focus my energy on sorting within the broadly scummy players

this is nothing new, but i just wanted to share where my head is at. i expect that ellie and esooa are going to thunderdome today, and if so, that's fine. i'm probably going to disengage from that thunderdome in favor of searching for solid townreads outside

bruh u were on fucking wagon what the fuck

i am v aware of that fact

[EllieDelight]

whats up fuckers

interested to see if you retain that energy after catching up lol. today has been, a thing

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Everything with Made/Michelle/Ellie feels weird as shit honestly. Completely nonsensical reads, intentional wifoming/scumclaiming for no reason other than to mess with people's heads, hard shielding and deathtunnelling each other, AtE, I'm kind of done with it all. It's probably just some weird attempt to anti-spew/generate chaos because it's the only way they can win so I'm going to just kill them and let Marmot sort them out for me.

relatable

[DkKoba]

ok before i continue reading: does anyone here like actually townread nutella

[EllieDelight]

Everything with Made/Michelle/Ellie feels weird as shit honestly. Completely nonsensical reads, intentional wifoming/scumclaiming for no reason other than to mess with people's heads, hard shielding and deathtunnelling each other, AtE, I'm kind of done with it all. It's probably just some weird attempt to anti-spew/generate chaos because it's the only way they can win so I'm going to just kill them and let Marmot sort them out for me.

okay, but can i be the last one to be killed please

[staypositivefriend]

we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

can you give a general reads list

made is 1000% scum, i have done nothing in this game for him to bend over backwards. i couldnt tell you anyone else, michelle looked scum to me d1 but idk what to say now. probably scum if shes helping made though.

nook, spf, nutter are lock town.

idk where to put you since i thought you were scum so bad yesterday but now im confused.

grogu is a passing thought and i dont care either way since he's inactive.

post like this, and your "ewww grosss made" only making me more confident that ur town. i see why that's problematic, but like it's gonna work out dw

oh yeah it's notable that Ellie showed up in thread but kept her vote on made without discussing why

i am constantly in thread witbout speaking at night since i cant sleep . i thought it was obvious since it shows who's online.
I'll vote for Mich tho, i think Made is scummier but Mich is definitely worth a bake.

Relatable. Sleep is a myth

We’re not actually going to bake Michelle are we? That literally makes no sense.

Like even from my POV I make more sense than Michelle, or Ellie. Michelle that’s some wacko type.

What if instead of baking esooa after Michelle we bake esooa first?

We’re 3 votes from hammer. Y’all really think mafia would let us get this close to hammering???


Why do we think esooa is civvie??? This is so silly

another thing to note

soon after I made my case basically saying why made and Michelle were scum, nanook called himself confirmed town

this felt off to me

I can get easily see scum! nanook realizing his partners are about to go down and expecting he needs to go deep, thus feeling the need to emphasize his town reads

worth looking into if Nanook has called himself confirmed town before that point, or if it was a notable increase

I'm wondering why though, if this would be the case, that nanook continues to defend Michelle. It's not too unlikely tbh, considering the distant way he chose to defend her, and I suppose it would be maybe weird if he flipped his read on her. But it should be looked into. Obviously other things to look into are how hard nanook bussed made and how likely scum!nanook is to do this

Nanook is more town than like anyone this game in the towncore sense.

these are a couple of posts from made that give me the impression that they are focused on anti-spew above all else. the thoughts here feel performative

[staypositivefriend]

ok before i continue reading: does anyone here like actually townread nutella

yes

[DkKoba]

i see others already said it but: esooa pls stop the entitlement spiel. its toxic and unproductive.

[DkKoba]

cool, really enjoy playing a game where I get based on if my reads are anything but 100% correct while u get to just sound towny day 0 and get lock cleared by everyone and don't have to care at all about if you have a single incorrect reads with players you barely even know they're all gonna apply some kinda insane meta where my reads are always correct or I get hard pushed for entire day phases at a time

I'm not checking this thread for the next 24 hours wtv

Ellie+made+1

+1 in koba/grogu/DOOM/spf/koba (maybe forgetting one)

most likely doom

awe u included me twice <3

[Made]

we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

can you give a general reads list

made is 1000% scum, i have done nothing in this game for him to bend over backwards. i couldnt tell you anyone else, michelle looked scum to me d1 but idk what to say now. probably scum if shes helping made though.

nook, spf, nutter are lock town.

idk where to put you since i thought you were scum so bad yesterday but now im confused.

grogu is a passing thought and i dont care either way since he's inactive.

post like this, and your "ewww grosss made" only making me more confident that ur town. i see why that's problematic, but like it's gonna work out dw

oh yeah it's notable that Ellie showed up in thread but kept her vote on made without discussing why

i am constantly in thread witbout speaking at night since i cant sleep . i thought it was obvious since it shows who's online.
I'll vote for Mich tho, i think Made is scummier but Mich is definitely worth a bake.

Relatable. Sleep is a myth

We’re not actually going to bake Michelle are we? That literally makes no sense.

Like even from my POV I make more sense than Michelle, or Ellie. Michelle that’s some wacko type.

What if instead of baking esooa after Michelle we bake esooa first?

We’re 3 votes from hammer. Y’all really think mafia would let us get this close to hammering???


Why do we think esooa is civvie??? This is so silly

another thing to note

soon after I made my case basically saying why made and Michelle were scum, nanook called himself confirmed town

this felt off to me

I can get easily see scum! nanook realizing his partners are about to go down and expecting he needs to go deep, thus feeling the need to emphasize his town reads

worth looking into if Nanook has called himself confirmed town before that point, or if it was a notable increase

I'm wondering why though, if this would be the case, that nanook continues to defend Michelle. It's not too unlikely tbh, considering the distant way he chose to defend her, and I suppose it would be maybe weird if he flipped his read on her. But it should be looked into. Obviously other things to look into are how hard nanook bussed made and how likely scum!nanook is to do this

Nanook is more town than like anyone this game in the towncore sense.

these are a couple of posts from made that give me the impression that they are focused on anti-spew above all else. the thoughts here feel performative

What does anti spew mean?

[nutella]

koba commenting on stuff from 1000 posts ago is gonna be fun

[Alison]

at the time, i didn't have any specific "towntells" in mind that michelle would need to drop - that was my drunken way of expressing that i felt that ~if~ michelle was town, then it was likely that she would organically reconsider and rethink the perspectives that she was outing

i could see a plausible world where michelle, as town, gets worked up about people voting her and concludes in the heat of the moment that anyone voting her is coming from a mafia POV. however, i found the world where michelle outed those reads and then ~continued~ to hold them for hours on end significantly less likely

the main thing that i was (and am) looking for was genuine reconsideration of the reads that she outed, or even a further analysis into why me/esooa/michelle made sense as a team. the main concern i have about michelle is that her gamesolving has not felt authentic to me, and i am searching for those moments of authenticity

Mmm, I can relate to this view of Michelle, and I think it's townie in that we both analyzed Michelle's play similarly (I was talking about how I expected her reads to be fluid if she was town and rigid if she was scum earlier). You have on multiple occasions expressed a stated intent to clear yourself through pure effort/townieness. Most people have you as consensus "just outside the towncore" or "upper POE but not clear" level. How do you feel about this? Do you think your play this game is off, or do you think they're just taking time to get there?

[DkKoba]

koba commenting on stuff from 1000 posts ago is gonna be fun

maybe dont generate 1000 posts in 12 hours

[Alison]

ok before i continue reading: does anyone here like actually townread nutella

I do.

[Alison]

Everything with Made/Michelle/Ellie feels weird as shit honestly. Completely nonsensical reads, intentional wifoming/scumclaiming for no reason other than to mess with people's heads, hard shielding and deathtunnelling each other, AtE, I'm kind of done with it all. It's probably just some weird attempt to anti-spew/generate chaos because it's the only way they can win so I'm going to just kill them and let Marmot sort them out for me.

okay, but can i be the last one to be killed please

What happened to "I accept death but just kill Made after me"?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Not particularly

Possibly in part because I don’t actually feel super strongly about most of my reads

I’m pretty much just taking a backseat and seeing if the current leaders push us to scum, if they don’t then I’ll try to course correct when it’s needed. Idk if that’s the correct way to play this game but it’s how I’m playing it anyways

Sure. I wanted to play the same way. Old instincts eventually take hold though.

I’m better at maintaining it than you

[staypositivefriend]

@Made - by "anti-spew", i mean posts that are intended to confuse/mislead people into the incorrect conclusions when you flip mafia and they re-read your posts for partner interactions

[DkKoba]

Michelle is really nitpicking at things that are inconsequential, which like I think she does as town but in a better balance with actual real reads and productive pushes tbh.

Really feeling she's mafia here, and I think Made is more likely town in comparison.

what things are those that are inconsequential to you?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My view of SPF is like a diet version of my view of Alison.

I've been seeing almost the exact same game as Alison the whole time, and I think that means we're the same alignment. I've been seeing the same game as SPF most of the time, and I think that means we
re probably the same alignment. When we're both town, SPF and I have in previous games been pretty close in our reads. So I am mostly pleased by that.

[EllieDelight]

Everything with Made/Michelle/Ellie feels weird as shit honestly. Completely nonsensical reads, intentional wifoming/scumclaiming for no reason other than to mess with people's heads, hard shielding and deathtunnelling each other, AtE, I'm kind of done with it all. It's probably just some weird attempt to anti-spew/generate chaos because it's the only way they can win so I'm going to just kill them and let Marmot sort them out for me.

okay, but can i be the last one to be killed please

What happened to "I accept death but just kill Made after me"?

i was about to die lol. i just wanted to make aure yall would take a mafia too. Now that its evenly between me and my two mafia reads if there's a chance I could outlive them i want to try. Anyways, it shouldnt matter what order we're baked unless you read me as 10× scummier

[DkKoba]

alright second general question: who here thinks michelle is scum?

[EllieDelight]

I do

[Alison]

This has been bothering the back of my mind for a bit so I'm going to note it down here: a lot of people have come forward and said something like "actually why are we townclearing nutella" or "actually maybe nutella is scum". This doesn't make sense to me because nutella is in the exact same obvious town position as she tends to be most of the time when she's town. I've played quite a few games with her in that position, as both alignments, and most of the time it's just accepted that she's town and people don't question it or tinfoil her.

From memory, the people who've tried to poke at nutella's position are DK, DOOM, Michelle, Made and LC. LC is flipped town, so not a concern - DK and DOOM are new to the site, which could potentially explain their behavior. That the two names left on the list are Michelle and Made (my top two suspects) makes me think that the shade against nutella comes from a wolfy place, possibly piggybacking off genuine new-to-the-site suspicion from DK and DOOM. This suggests that the towncore is mostly watertight, and that mafia are trying their best to crack it, and it doubly clears nutella if so.

[staypositivefriend]

at the time, i didn't have any specific "towntells" in mind that michelle would need to drop - that was my drunken way of expressing that i felt that ~if~ michelle was town, then it was likely that she would organically reconsider and rethink the perspectives that she was outing

i could see a plausible world where michelle, as town, gets worked up about people voting her and concludes in the heat of the moment that anyone voting her is coming from a mafia POV. however, i found the world where michelle outed those reads and then ~continued~ to hold them for hours on end significantly less likely

the main thing that i was (and am) looking for was genuine reconsideration of the reads that she outed, or even a further analysis into why me/esooa/michelle made sense as a team. the main concern i have about michelle is that her gamesolving has not felt authentic to me, and i am searching for those moments of authenticity

Mmm, I can relate to this view of Michelle, and I think it's townie in that we both analyzed Michelle's play similarly (I was talking about how I expected her reads to be fluid if she was town and rigid if she was scum earlier). You have on multiple occasions expressed a stated intent to clear yourself through pure effort/townieness. Most people have you as consensus "just outside the towncore" or "upper POE but not clear" level. How do you feel about this? Do you think your play this game is off, or do you think they're just taking time to get there?

it's a mix of both. i feel that this is one of the weaker town games i've had recently, in the sense that i misvoted on d1 and in the sense that i've been having a harder time grabbing ahold of solid, concrete scumreads like i usually do. (no need to be hard on myself tho - this game is still fun). i also feel that if we live in a michelle/made/x scumworld like i suspect that we might, then my town equity is going to increase day by day, and the game will hopefully be over before anyone has a chance to meaningfully tinfoil me

the rigidity within michelle's gamesolving concerns me as well - i felt as though she was deliberately twisting her perspective of the game to fit into the confirmation biased belief of: "esooa/nutella/spf are scum" instead of interpreting and organically considering the information she was presented with

[Made]

@Made - by "anti-spew", i mean posts that are intended to confuse/mislead people into the incorrect conclusions when you flip mafia and they re-read your posts for partner interactions

Noted. My play is a bit everywhere, but I’m trying a bit more of a player interaction focused to find mafia which is requiring me to interact directly with players a lot, but I get how that can be confusing.

Hopefully when someone dies, It’ll make me look explicitly better or worse in a way that’s less messy

[DkKoba]

Michelle doesn't have the guts to straight out say she suspects me because she damn well knows I'm obvious town so instead she resorts to vague shit like "something isn't right"

she's just mafia

lol this post is so wild

[Alison]

Everything with Made/Michelle/Ellie feels weird as shit honestly. Completely nonsensical reads, intentional wifoming/scumclaiming for no reason other than to mess with people's heads, hard shielding and deathtunnelling each other, AtE, I'm kind of done with it all. It's probably just some weird attempt to anti-spew/generate chaos because it's the only way they can win so I'm going to just kill them and let Marmot sort them out for me.

okay, but can i be the last one to be killed please

What happened to "I accept death but just kill Made after me"?

i was about to die lol. i just wanted to make aure yall would take a mafia too. Now that its evenly between me and my two mafia reads if there's a chance I could outlive them i want to try. Anyways, it shouldnt matter what order we're baked unless you read me as 10× scummier

Well currently I have you as last to go out of the three :P

[JaggedJimmyJay]

When I ask myself if I would rather chop Made, Ellie, or Michelle, my answer is "I literally don't give a crap"

[staypositivefriend]

My view of SPF is like a diet version of my view of Alison.

I've been seeing almost the exact same game as Alison the whole time, and I think that means we're the same alignment. I've been seeing the same game as SPF most of the time, and I think that means we
re probably the same alignment. When we're both town, SPF and I have in previous games been pretty close in our reads. So I am mostly pleased by that.

lol, it helped me to see you orient yourself around similar positions as me when i was catching up with the thread earlier. i think our perspective has mostly been in lockstep with a couple of minor differences/bumps along the way

[Michelle]

@Made - by "anti-spew", i mean posts that are intended to confuse/mislead people into the incorrect conclusions when you flip mafia and they re-read your posts for partner interactions

Isn't this implying a preflip asociation for Made who is not prooved yet? How do you know how Made flips?

Both these, the above idea plus the wallies about me are highly performative and fitting a general scum behaviour.

[DkKoba]

"LC is flipped town"

idk abt u but i trust the viewpoint of a flipped town than an unclear slot but hey thats just me alison.

[DkKoba]

so anyways i got bored catching up cuz i got a scumread out of it.

[Michelle]

When I ask myself if I would rather chop Made, Ellie, or Michelle, my answer is "I literally don't give a crap"

Me either tbh, but don’t say it again, it hurts my feelings.

[staypositivefriend]

@Made - by "anti-spew", i mean posts that are intended to confuse/mislead people into the incorrect conclusions when you flip mafia and they re-read your posts for partner interactions

Isn't this implying a preflip asociation for Made who is not prooved yet? How do you know how Made flips?

Both these, the above idea plus the wallies about me are highly performative and fitting a general scum behaviour.

i don't - i'm saying that a couple of the posts that made has posted feel as though they are intended to mislead/confuse people, and that makes me suspicious of his intent

[DkKoba]

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

also im fairly sure michelle is town.
her intent in her posts feel towny

[EllieDelight]

Spoiler: show

Everything with Made/Michelle/Ellie feels weird as shit honestly. Completely nonsensical reads, intentional wifoming/scumclaiming for no reason other than to mess with people's heads, hard shielding and deathtunnelling each other, AtE, I'm kind of done with it all. It's probably just some weird attempt to anti-spew/generate chaos because it's the only way they can win so I'm going to just kill them and let Marmot sort them out for me.

okay, but can i be the last one to be killed please

What happened to "I accept death but just kill Made after me"?

i was about to die lol. i just wanted to make aure yall would take a mafia too. Now that its evenly between me and my two mafia reads if there's a chance I could outlive them i want to try. Anyways, it shouldnt matter what order we're baked unless you read me as 10× scummier

Well currently I have you as last to go out of the three :P

When I ask myself if I would rather chop Made, Ellie, or Michelle, my answer is "I literally don't give a crap"

blessed

[Alison]

it's a mix of both. i feel that this is one of the weaker town games i've had recently, in the sense that i misvoted on d1 and in the sense that i've been having a harder time grabbing ahold of solid, concrete scumreads like i usually do. (no need to be hard on myself tho - this game is still fun). i also feel that if we live in a michelle/made/x scumworld like i suspect that we might, then my town equity is going to increase day by day, and the game will hopefully be over before anyone has a chance to meaningfully tinfoil me

Alright, that answer satisfies me. I think if we live in, say, Michelle/Made/SPF world, you'd be a lot more desperate to get into the towncore and go deep (see: Grasslands where you realized your two partners were POE'd out of the game early and focused all your efforts on getting to endgame). I don't see desperation or panic here wrt to your status in the towncore or lack thereof, which moves you higher in my eyes, since forcing your way into the towncore is your path to victory as mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

When I ask myself if I would rather chop Made, Ellie, or Michelle, my answer is "I literally don't give a crap"

Me either tbh, but don’t say it again, it hurts my feelings.

I mean no offense nor callousness, Michelle. This game wears me out much faster than it used to. Part of my apathy is my fatigue.

[staypositivefriend]

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

also im fairly sure michelle is town.
her intent in her posts feel towny

can you expand on that? what specifically about her intent are you townreading?

[DkKoba]

hey michelle can u unvote urself its not helpful to VCA when u do stuff like that

[Michelle]

@Made - by "anti-spew", i mean posts that are intended to confuse/mislead people into the incorrect conclusions when you flip mafia and they re-read your posts for partner interactions

Isn't this implying a preflip asociation for Made who is not prooved yet? How do you know how Made flips?

Both these, the above idea plus the wallies about me are highly performative and fitting a general scum behaviour.

i don't - i'm saying that a couple of the posts that made has posted feel as though they are intended to mislead/confuse people, and that makes me suspicious of his intent

Just don't say it with other words, i understand your narrative and why are you doing it

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

[Alison]

"LC is flipped town"

idk abt u but i trust the viewpoint of a flipped town than an unclear slot but hey thats just me alison.

The other flipped town has nutella as lock town so if we're playing it this way it's a wash.

Why is nutella scum?