Bread Mafia [Game Over]

[DaughterOfOmega]

Who asked me reads?

I am fairly confident that Ellie is mafia.

Made/Michelle less so, but have small things that are scummy.

I think Ellie's partners is more like Nanook+1

Can you give me a POE or list of candidates for the +1?

not really, I'd just be picking some people at random because I don't have a good feeling for the +1

[Alison]

I'm having mixed feelings about this SPF push on Koba and not sure whether to ding her for trying to widen the POE or give her points for townie paranoia.

if i was interested in widening the poe then i would be pushing on nanook, or jagged, or even you - not on a player that's been consensus "spewed clear" town from the very beginning of the game. if i was interested in getting people paranoid about koba, it would also be a lot more subtle

Okay. GTH, is the game easy or hard?

[staypositivefriend]

I'm having mixed feelings about this SPF push on Koba and not sure whether to ding her for trying to widen the POE or give her points for townie paranoia.

if i was interested in widening the poe then i would be pushing on nanook, or jagged, or even you - not on a player that's been consensus "spewed clear" town from the very beginning of the game. if i was interested in getting people paranoid about koba, it would also be a lot more subtle

you just said that when you're scum you do your best to imitate how you would really scumhunt soooo

lol that's true - it's possible that i would be raising paranoia about koba as scum right now too, but i think i would be more focused on getting people to organically come to the conclusion that koba could be scum instead of bruteforcing it and drawing potentially negative attention to myself by outing concerns about a universally townread player

[Alison]

Who asked me reads?

I am fairly confident that Ellie is mafia.

Made/Michelle less so, but have small things that are scummy.

I think Ellie's partners is more like Nanook+1

Can you give me a POE or list of candidates for the +1?

not really, I'd just be picking some people at random because I don't have a good feeling for the +1

Townie post

[nutella]

I'm having mixed feelings about this SPF push on Koba and not sure whether to ding her for trying to widen the POE or give her points for townie paranoia.

if i was interested in widening the poe then i would be pushing on nanook, or jagged, or even you - not on a player that's been consensus "spewed clear" town from the very beginning of the game. if i was interested in getting people paranoid about koba, it would also be a lot more subtle

Okay. GTH, is the game easy or hard?

Thunal send me your energy

[Alison]

I'm having mixed feelings about this SPF push on Koba and not sure whether to ding her for trying to widen the POE or give her points for townie paranoia.

if i was interested in widening the poe then i would be pushing on nanook, or jagged, or even you - not on a player that's been consensus "spewed clear" town from the very beginning of the game. if i was interested in getting people paranoid about koba, it would also be a lot more subtle

you just said that when you're scum you do your best to imitate how you would really scumhunt soooo

lol that's true - it's possible that i would be raising paranoia about koba as scum right now too, but i think i would be more focused on getting people to organically come to the conclusion that koba could be scum instead of bruteforcing it and drawing potentially negative attention to myself by outing concerns about a universally townread player

Usually people are more organic as town and more forced as scum

[staypositivefriend]

I'm having mixed feelings about this SPF push on Koba and not sure whether to ding her for trying to widen the POE or give her points for townie paranoia.

if i was interested in widening the poe then i would be pushing on nanook, or jagged, or even you - not on a player that's been consensus "spewed clear" town from the very beginning of the game. if i was interested in getting people paranoid about koba, it would also be a lot more subtle

Okay. GTH, is the game easy or hard?

it's easy with a strong likelihood of exactly one deep wolf

i think outing that thought could be perceived as instilling paranoia, but that's where i'm at

[Alison]

DOOM can you elaborate on why you think Nanook is a better fit for Ellie's partner than Made?

[staypositivefriend]

I'm having mixed feelings about this SPF push on Koba and not sure whether to ding her for trying to widen the POE or give her points for townie paranoia.

if i was interested in widening the poe then i would be pushing on nanook, or jagged, or even you - not on a player that's been consensus "spewed clear" town from the very beginning of the game. if i was interested in getting people paranoid about koba, it would also be a lot more subtle

you just said that when you're scum you do your best to imitate how you would really scumhunt soooo

lol that's true - it's possible that i would be raising paranoia about koba as scum right now too, but i think i would be more focused on getting people to organically come to the conclusion that koba could be scum instead of bruteforcing it and drawing potentially negative attention to myself by outing concerns about a universally townread player

Usually people are more organic as town and more forced as scum

lol yeah :P but my point is that i really like "planting seeds" as mafia - asking certain leading questions to make people fight with each other, outing certain thoughts that other people will "mindmeld" with and come to a certain conclusion from, etc, etc. it's pretty rare for scum!me to be blunt about a read, unless i'm bussing

i know this is self-meta so it's mostly useless tho

[nutella]

I'm having mixed feelings about this SPF push on Koba and not sure whether to ding her for trying to widen the POE or give her points for townie paranoia.

if i was interested in widening the poe then i would be pushing on nanook, or jagged, or even you - not on a player that's been consensus "spewed clear" town from the very beginning of the game. if i was interested in getting people paranoid about koba, it would also be a lot more subtle

Okay. GTH, is the game easy or hard?

it's easy with a strong likelihood of exactly one deep wolf

i think outing that thought could be perceived as instilling paranoia, but that's where i'm at

a day ago I would have said easy, now I think hard but the degree of that hardness is variable lol

for example, if you are the deepwolf and i'm already starting to get there on you now then that's less hard. but i think it's possible there are two wolves who aren't really in the poe and it could take some doing to puzzle out

[DaughterOfOmega]

DOOM can you elaborate on why you think Nanook is a better fit for Ellie's partner than Made?

how much time is left in day?

I am in a game, will get to this after

[nutella]

DOOM can you elaborate on why you think Nanook is a better fit for Ellie's partner than Made?

how much time is left in day?

I am in a game, will get to this after

about 17 hours. you can see the end time at the top of the poll (assuming your timezone is set correctly)

[Alison]

I'm having mixed feelings about this SPF push on Koba and not sure whether to ding her for trying to widen the POE or give her points for townie paranoia.

if i was interested in widening the poe then i would be pushing on nanook, or jagged, or even you - not on a player that's been consensus "spewed clear" town from the very beginning of the game. if i was interested in getting people paranoid about koba, it would also be a lot more subtle

Okay. GTH, is the game easy or hard?

it's easy with a strong likelihood of exactly one deep wolf

i think outing that thought could be perceived as instilling paranoia, but that's where i'm at

This is actually where I'm at too lol

It's like Ellie and Made and then the elusive +1 is hard. It's why I've been looking for signs of powerwolfing, because in that world the +1 has to leverage their clout to help their team somehow, and I think this will be the marker that helps us find them. From that perspective, koba/doom/grogu are less likely to fit this bill, since they haven't been making any concerted effort to push a scum agenda. So maybe the +1 isn't DOOM after all and you just fooled me with the chill vibe, or JJJ faked a mind meld, or something.

[Michelle]

If you only take one of my reads to the bank, make it tutuu town. I'm never chopping her.

Tutuu lock town noted

If Michelle is town (a) fuck me I just suck then and (b) Ellie is still probably mafia and (c) maybe spf

What is bad in your push is not the scum read, is the fact you took the meta as absolute reason to scum read both of us LC and myself, and you had no mercy in making us the lynch of the day

Of course I have to question your alignament.
The easiest thing in mafia is bring a surface level meta from someone and after that person is loosing patience and posts unfitting with the ideal town play things, to push further because they 'scum slipped'.

You did this and for this i am wary of how bad your play was for town. I think this is the closest to mafia aligned play one can do and i scum read you for this reason.
I am sorry that my bad emotional state made me question you as my friend outside the game, please forgive me and accept my apologies.
After all is a game and my purpose of playing it is fulfilled by default.

[staypositivefriend]

I'm having mixed feelings about this SPF push on Koba and not sure whether to ding her for trying to widen the POE or give her points for townie paranoia.

if i was interested in widening the poe then i would be pushing on nanook, or jagged, or even you - not on a player that's been consensus "spewed clear" town from the very beginning of the game. if i was interested in getting people paranoid about koba, it would also be a lot more subtle

Okay. GTH, is the game easy or hard?

it's easy with a strong likelihood of exactly one deep wolf

i think outing that thought could be perceived as instilling paranoia, but that's where i'm at

This is actually where I'm at too lol

It's like Ellie and Made and then the elusive +1 is hard. It's why I've been looking for signs of powerwolfing, because in that world the +1 has to leverage their clout to help their team somehow, and I think this will be the marker that helps us find them. From that perspective, koba/doom/grogu are less likely to fit this bill, since they haven't been making any concerted effort to push a scum agenda. So maybe the +1 isn't DOOM after all and you just fooled me with the chill vibe, or JJJ faked a mind meld, or something.

i'm in a similar position, and i can't fault you for considering that i could be that elusive +1, because i am absolutely doing the same thing to you

[nutella]

If you only take one of my reads to the bank, make it tutuu town. I'm never chopping her.

Tutuu lock town noted

If Michelle is town (a) fuck me I just suck then and (b) Ellie is still probably mafia and (c) maybe spf

What is bad in your push is not the scum read, is the fact you took the meta as absolute reason to scum read both of us LC and myself, and you had no mercy in making us the lynch of the day

Of course I have to question your alignament.
The easiest thing in mafia is bring a surface level meta from someone and after that person is loosing patience and posts unfitting with the ideal town play things, to push further because they 'scum slipped'.

You did this and for this i am wary of how bad your play was for town. I think this is the closest to mafia aligned play one can do and i scum read you for this reason.
I am sorry that my bad emotional state made me question you as my friend outside the game, please forgive me and accept my apologies.
After all is a game and my purpose of playing it is fulfilled by default.

It's not surface level, it's not only meta, I had very clear reasons based on your actions in this game and you are misrepresenting my reasoning for scumreading you here. I should have been more openminded at times yes but you are making harsh assumptions about my motivations here that are not representative of my actual case against you.

[Alison]

Alison five minutes ago: why are people tinfoiling SPF/JJJ? I'm not concerned.

Alison now: well someone has to be the +1 and signs point to them...

I should probably go back to bed and sleep on it, as well as see if any of those worlds doesn't make sense (eg. unaligned associatives)

[nutella]

Alison five minutes ago: why are people tinfoiling SPF/JJJ? I'm not concerned.

Alison now: well someone has to be the +1 and signs point to them...

I should probably go back to bed and sleep on it, as well as see if any of those worlds doesn't make sense (eg. unaligned associatives)

I'm also off to bread and will caramelize on this

[Michelle]

what i understand about koba's scum meta is that they are very interested in doing 4d chess strategies and they are very interested in how they are being perceived/the level of towncred theyre going to get on each day

if we assume for a moment that we live in a michelle!town world, then koba's approach to today puts them in an extremely good position that they can reap towncred from without getting their hands dirty

koba has consistently stated with a high level of confidence that michelle is town:

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

also im fairly sure michelle is town.
her intent in her posts feel towny

ok there was this analyiss post from michelle i really likea bt the mac kill and then also i say her VCA which i totally vibed with cuz she seems to be the only one who is looking for scum on wagons here based on what im reading which is something i am also doing.

like ignoring nightkills/wagon composition is something scum tend to do.

i cba to case ppl bc of the post volume but the vibes are there and the vibes are strong.

koba has consistently flaunted their townread on michelle and emphasized that they think that she's going to flip town

but at the same time, their attitude toward the michelle chop has been relatively ....apathetic. they have been pushing outside, but they also seem to take michelle's lynch as somewhat of an inevitability:

michelle can u promise me u wont self hammer please

they've tried to prevent michelle from being hammered too quickly, but they haven't done anything specific to change the course of the chop

instead, they've been speculating that michelle will flip town while trying to create wagons on players that are realistically never going to happen today (nutella, tutuu)

so is it possible for all of this to be coming from koba!town? absolutely

but what i'm saying is that from a koba!scum worldview (where michelle is assumed town), they've positioned themselves perfectly to get towncred from michelle's flip without meaningfully changing the course or the direction of the game

as someone who knows koba as a player who will raise absolute hell if the game is going in a direction they dislike, this somewhat apathetic approach to michelle's chop concerns me. it could simply be that they feel they don't have the clout necessary to get a chop on anyone else - but surely they are aware that a nutella/tutuu chop isn't going to happen today

i'm going to let this read simmer for a while and see how it feels, but this is something worth thinking about

Walk me through the reason of Koba to save me if he is mafia?
Use words suited for a 5 y o pls.

[Michelle]

If you only take one of my reads to the bank, make it tutuu town. I'm never chopping her.

Tutuu lock town noted

If Michelle is town (a) fuck me I just suck then and (b) Ellie is still probably mafia and (c) maybe spf

What is bad in your push is not the scum read, is the fact you took the meta as absolute reason to scum read both of us LC and myself, and you had no mercy in making us the lynch of the day

Of course I have to question your alignament.
The easiest thing in mafia is bring a surface level meta from someone and after that person is loosing patience and posts unfitting with the ideal town play things, to push further because they 'scum slipped'.

You did this and for this i am wary of how bad your play was for town. I think this is the closest to mafia aligned play one can do and i scum read you for this reason.
I am sorry that my bad emotional state made me question you as my friend outside the game, please forgive me and accept my apologies.
After all is a game and my purpose of playing it is fulfilled by default.

It's not surface level, it's not only meta, I had very clear reasons based on your actions in this game and you are misrepresenting my reasoning for scumreading you here. I should have been more openminded at times yes but you are making harsh assumptions about my motivations here that are not representative of my actual case against you.

Why you told me to lolcat?

[staypositivefriend]

what i understand about koba's scum meta is that they are very interested in doing 4d chess strategies and they are very interested in how they are being perceived/the level of towncred theyre going to get on each day

if we assume for a moment that we live in a michelle!town world, then koba's approach to today puts them in an extremely good position that they can reap towncred from without getting their hands dirty

koba has consistently stated with a high level of confidence that michelle is town:

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

also im fairly sure michelle is town.
her intent in her posts feel towny

ok there was this analyiss post from michelle i really likea bt the mac kill and then also i say her VCA which i totally vibed with cuz she seems to be the only one who is looking for scum on wagons here based on what im reading which is something i am also doing.

like ignoring nightkills/wagon composition is something scum tend to do.

i cba to case ppl bc of the post volume but the vibes are there and the vibes are strong.

koba has consistently flaunted their townread on michelle and emphasized that they think that she's going to flip town

but at the same time, their attitude toward the michelle chop has been relatively ....apathetic. they have been pushing outside, but they also seem to take michelle's lynch as somewhat of an inevitability:

michelle can u promise me u wont self hammer please

they've tried to prevent michelle from being hammered too quickly, but they haven't done anything specific to change the course of the chop

instead, they've been speculating that michelle will flip town while trying to create wagons on players that are realistically never going to happen today (nutella, tutuu)

so is it possible for all of this to be coming from koba!town? absolutely

but what i'm saying is that from a koba!scum worldview (where michelle is assumed town), they've positioned themselves perfectly to get towncred from michelle's flip without meaningfully changing the course or the direction of the game

as someone who knows koba as a player who will raise absolute hell if the game is going in a direction they dislike, this somewhat apathetic approach to michelle's chop concerns me. it could simply be that they feel they don't have the clout necessary to get a chop on anyone else - but surely they are aware that a nutella/tutuu chop isn't going to happen today

i'm going to let this read simmer for a while and see how it feels, but this is something worth thinking about

Walk me through the reason of Koba to save me if he is mafia?
Use words suited for a 5 y o pls.

my concern is that koba is actually not doing very much to "save" you - because the counterwagons they have presented to you are wagons that are never going to go through today (tutuu, nutella)

i'm theorizing that koba could be TMI'ing you as town while still allowing your chop to eventually go through

[Alison]

Before I head back, stray thought that passed thorugh my mind.

No matter how deep a wolf is, their position isn't safe forever. I've been the "solo deepwolf" in enough games to know that when the LHF gets cleared and everyone else remaining is townie, people will realize a deepwolf exists (I sometimes call this "proving the deepwolf"). At that point you need something else going for you than just "good tone" or "townie vibes", since otherwise you'll get POE'd out by people who are green checked or who have multiple pelts to their name.

This suggests that the current towncore poses a threat to the status of the deepwolf. Unless they're buried really really deep in it (like nutella or Esooa or tutuu deep, which I don't think is the case), they need to crack it open at some point. Which means that the deepwolf is actually probably someone who's been targeting the more trusted members to slowly erode their position.

This thought came to me because I was thinking about possible SPF scum worlds and what her path to victory is, and I was feeling like SPF has no chance to win if her teammates are Ellie/Made and her strategy is to just throw me + JJJ under the bus, because at some points the easy exes run out and if the really trusted towncore are still as entrenched as they are right now by then, she'll just be eliminated by default. Nightkills are a thing, of course, but the mafia only have one a night and new people will enter the deep towncore as the gamestate goes on and flips start to clear people.

[Alison]

Before I head back, stray thought that passed thorugh my mind.

No matter how deep a wolf is, their position isn't safe forever. I've been the "solo deepwolf" in enough games to know that when the LHF gets cleared and everyone else remaining is townie, people will realize a deepwolf exists (I sometimes call this "proving the deepwolf"). At that point you need something else going for you than just "good tone" or "townie vibes", since otherwise you'll get POE'd out by people who are green checked or who have multiple pelts to their name.

This suggests that the current towncore poses a threat to the status of the deepwolf. Unless they're buried really really deep in it (like nutella or Esooa or tutuu deep, which I don't think is the case), they need to crack it open at some point. Which means that the deepwolf is actually probably someone who's been targeting the more trusted members to slowly erode their position.

This thought came to me because I was thinking about possible SPF scum worlds and what her path to victory is, and I was feeling like SPF has no chance to win if her teammates are Ellie/Made and her strategy is to just throw me + JJJ under the bus, because at some points the easy exes run out and if the really trusted towncore are still as entrenched as they are right now by then, she'll just be eliminated by default. Nightkills are a thing, of course, but the mafia only have one a night and new people will enter the deep towncore as the gamestate goes on and flips start to clear people.

Based on what I've seen in Grasslands I think SPF does think far enough ahead that she'd be forming a plan to crack the towncore if she was town and not just taking pot shots at Koba/myself/JJJ or whatever. So slight plus points for her, but I can't think of anyone offhand that fits the archetype I just described (trying to undermine the Esooa/nutella/tutuu tier of consensus townreads).

[Alison]

forming a plan to crack the towncore if she was scum*, rather.

[Michelle]

what i understand about koba's scum meta is that they are very interested in doing 4d chess strategies and they are very interested in how they are being perceived/the level of towncred theyre going to get on each day

if we assume for a moment that we live in a michelle!town world, then koba's approach to today puts them in an extremely good position that they can reap towncred from without getting their hands dirty

koba has consistently stated with a high level of confidence that michelle is town:

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

also im fairly sure michelle is town.
her intent in her posts feel towny

ok there was this analyiss post from michelle i really likea bt the mac kill and then also i say her VCA which i totally vibed with cuz she seems to be the only one who is looking for scum on wagons here based on what im reading which is something i am also doing.

like ignoring nightkills/wagon composition is something scum tend to do.

i cba to case ppl bc of the post volume but the vibes are there and the vibes are strong.

koba has consistently flaunted their townread on michelle and emphasized that they think that she's going to flip town

but at the same time, their attitude toward the michelle chop has been relatively ....apathetic. they have been pushing outside, but they also seem to take michelle's lynch as somewhat of an inevitability:

michelle can u promise me u wont self hammer please

they've tried to prevent michelle from being hammered too quickly, but they haven't done anything specific to change the course of the chop

instead, they've been speculating that michelle will flip town while trying to create wagons on players that are realistically never going to happen today (nutella, tutuu)

so is it possible for all of this to be coming from koba!town? absolutely

but what i'm saying is that from a koba!scum worldview (where michelle is assumed town), they've positioned themselves perfectly to get towncred from michelle's flip without meaningfully changing the course or the direction of the game

as someone who knows koba as a player who will raise absolute hell if the game is going in a direction they dislike, this somewhat apathetic approach to michelle's chop concerns me. it could simply be that they feel they don't have the clout necessary to get a chop on anyone else - but surely they are aware that a nutella/tutuu chop isn't going to happen today

i'm going to let this read simmer for a while and see how it feels, but this is something worth thinking about

Walk me through the reason of Koba to save me if he is mafia?
Use words suited for a 5 y o pls.

my concern is that koba is actually not doing very much to "save" you - because the counterwagons they have presented to you are wagons that are never going to go through today (tutuu, nutella)

i'm theorizing that koba could be TMI'ing you as town while still allowing your chop to eventually go through

What reason would have mafia to descourage the shorter day from a hammer and the elimination in the same time of an incomod townie?
You can say Koba doesn't know me. This is true, but doesn't hold water against why saving a townie in the first place.
I strongly consider he saved me in that moment and at least for prolonging the day I see his action as pro town.

[Michelle]

Sorry for wrong pronouns Dkk, i am often thinking at verbs and how to make sense of my ideas

[Michelle]

You know what i like now? How mafia is playing with sweet words and relaxing when they have granted a new mislynch.
No one cares about solving. No one.

tbf i did find it a little odd that michelle was so concerned about ~no one~ solving the game when she had already solved the game from her perspective. she seemed pretty confident about a me/esooa/nutella scumworld, and she seemed pretty content to tell people to sheep her reads if she flipped green

This is 110% shady from SPF

The context was a totally happiness from everyone, outside the game thing, where i can bet mafia felt at ease posting heart kindness because they could be honest in posting that and what i pointed out was about the others lack of solve, in a moment when i was at 2 votes from being eliminated. Linking this with my own solve looks performative.

[staypositivefriend]

You know what i like now? How mafia is playing with sweet words and relaxing when they have granted a new mislynch.
No one cares about solving. No one.

tbf i did find it a little odd that michelle was so concerned about ~no one~ solving the game when she had already solved the game from her perspective. she seemed pretty confident about a me/esooa/nutella scumworld, and she seemed pretty content to tell people to sheep her reads if she flipped green

This is 110% shady from SPF

The context was a totally happiness from everyone, outside the game thing, where i can bet mafia felt at ease posting heart kindness because they could be honest in posting that and what i pointed out was about the others lack of solve, in a moment when i was at 2 votes from being eliminated. Linking this with my own solve looks performative.

from my point of view, it felt like you had a solve that you felt 100% confident about, and a solve that you were completely satisfied having people sheep after you got chopped. that's why it pinged me that you were complaining about people ~not solving~ when the game was already solved from your perspective

i get what youre saying here, though

[Michelle]

Anyone have any idea when Nanook moved to Made??? Wtf

I'm triggered bc like, he was defending Michelle and only jumped on her wagon last night when I was going hard against her and it seemed that she was beyond sure to be the chop

And now that Made is a viable counter again he jumped over there without announcing it in thread

This is the second time when someone points out @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME voting on or off my wagon, i unfortunately forgot who asked it first time and it would be useful if someone could find this. I know i answered that i don't find his vote odd because i invited him to vote and i blame my own hyper activity who makes me unable to search on phone rn who asked.

Feels like who is looking so carefully at how wagons are moving and who is moving is a little too concerned and it's forced, ig this makes sense

[staypositivefriend]

@michelle - that's a fair point about koba - i'm considering that my paranoia about them is something that i'm just overthinking

[staypositivefriend]

i'm going to bed shortly. my solve still looks like 2/3 of made/ellie/michelle and +1 in doom/some other person in the "towncore"

but frankly, i'm starting to favor an ellie/made chop significantly more than a michelle chop. we'll see how i feel tomorrow

[Michelle]

You know what i like now? How mafia is playing with sweet words and relaxing when they have granted a new mislynch.
No one cares about solving. No one.

tbf i did find it a little odd that michelle was so concerned about ~no one~ solving the game when she had already solved the game from her perspective. she seemed pretty confident about a me/esooa/nutella scumworld, and she seemed pretty content to tell people to sheep her reads if she flipped green

This is 110% shady from SPF

The context was a totally happiness from everyone, outside the game thing, where i can bet mafia felt at ease posting heart kindness because they could be honest in posting that and what i pointed out was about the others lack of solve, in a moment when i was at 2 votes from being eliminated. Linking this with my own solve looks performative.

from my point of view, it felt like you had a solve that you felt 100% confident about, and a solve that you were completely satisfied having people sheep after you got chopped. that's why it pinged me that you were complaining about people ~not solving~ when the game was already solved from your perspective

i get what youre saying here, though

Can you stop giving me the sensation you pat me on my head like i am a disturbed doggo?
Your last sentence feels exactly like that

About the solve, i know complacency is what kills a game for town, and knowing i am a mislynch made me complain about everyone who was complacent in approving my lynch, and the majority were, mathematically speaking, villagers.
Otoh i am not enough self sufficient to put myself as a perfect game solver, so like usual I need my townies to step up and give their solve.

What you said was opportunistic.

[Michelle]

@michelle - that's a fair point about koba - i'm considering that my paranoia about them is something that i'm just overthinking

Dw, you just gave me a more solid reason to lock you wolf.

[Michelle]

Since people don't seem to want to kill Ellie today, I am moving my vote to Michelle.

Ellie is voting Made, I think Made has more town points than Michelle, and I don't want to be off wagon on days like this

What means days like this and why do you want to be on wagon?

[DaughterOfOmega]

The more I read of Nanook ISO, the more i lock them in as mafia

Working on my post on why Ellie's partner is Nanook

@Alison

[Michelle]

my chop preferences right now are michelle > ellie > made in that order

Ellie > Made > Michelle

i'll probably meet you in the middle and vote for ellie

i'm just paranoid about her getting off the hook lol

Understandable.

Do you think there's any validity in comparing Michelle to Chemist in the Finale D2? Off-kilter reads against the town core, consensus suspect, demoralized by errant suspicion, groaned and walked to the gallows

hmm....they are similar in the sense that i recall struggling to fully understand/vibe with chemist's perspective, and in both cases, they both got demoralized because of the level of pressure on them

i suppose the core difference i can point out is that chemist's reads appeared to have a lot of thought behind them even if i didnt understand them - whereas michelle's reads are concerningly reactive and focused solely on who's fos'ing her at any given moment

The pink text is not true, i was accused of frozen reads on just 3 people so what you said is part of a narrative

[Michelle]

The more I read of Nanook ISO, the more i lock them in as mafia

Working on my post on why Ellie's partner is Nanook

@Alison

Can you quote the posts please?

[DaughterOfOmega]

You know what, I just finished the entire ISO, and I take back what I said.

I think Nanook is extremely likely to be mafia, and Michelle is much more likely to be their partner.

I still feel this slight chance Ellie is with Nanook since he spent so much time on Made over Ellie, and has only pushed Made for 2 days without a strong explanation to the read.

I think if Ellie and Made are both town, they should be pushing Nanook with haste.

[staypositivefriend]

You know what i like now? How mafia is playing with sweet words and relaxing when they have granted a new mislynch.
No one cares about solving. No one.

tbf i did find it a little odd that michelle was so concerned about ~no one~ solving the game when she had already solved the game from her perspective. she seemed pretty confident about a me/esooa/nutella scumworld, and she seemed pretty content to tell people to sheep her reads if she flipped green

This is 110% shady from SPF

The context was a totally happiness from everyone, outside the game thing, where i can bet mafia felt at ease posting heart kindness because they could be honest in posting that and what i pointed out was about the others lack of solve, in a moment when i was at 2 votes from being eliminated. Linking this with my own solve looks performative.

from my point of view, it felt like you had a solve that you felt 100% confident about, and a solve that you were completely satisfied having people sheep after you got chopped. that's why it pinged me that you were complaining about people ~not solving~ when the game was already solved from your perspective

i get what youre saying here, though

Can you stop giving me the sensation you pat me on my head like i am a disturbed doggo?
Your last sentence feels exactly like that

About the solve, i know complacency is what kills a game for town, and knowing i am a mislynch made me complain about everyone who was complacent in approving my lynch, and the majority were, mathematically speaking, villagers.
Otoh i am not enough self sufficient to put myself as a perfect game solver, so like usual I need my townies to step up and give their solve.

What you said was opportunistic.

i'm talking to you like i would talk to literally anyone else

i'm acknowledging the reasons why you found it opportunistic, while also asking you to acknowledge that my thought process behind making that post was completely sincere

i'm starting to see a world where you're just town, and it doesn't sound fun for you to get locked into pushing me

[Michelle]

Spoiler: show

Alison
0
No votes


Voters: None

DaughterOfOmega
0
No votes


Voters: None

DkKoba
0
No votes


Voters: None

EllieDelight
5
29%


Voters: Esooa, DaughterOfOmega, Made, nutella, JaggedJimmyJay

Esooa
0
No votes


Voters: None

Grogu
0
No votes


Voters: None

JaggedJimmyJay
0
No votes


Voters: None

Made
3
18%


Voters: staypositivefriend, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, EllieDelight

Michelle
2
12%


Voters: Grogu, tutuu

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
0
No votes


Voters: None

nutella
2
12%


Voters: DkKoba, Michelle

staypositivefriend
0
No votes


Voters: None

tutuu
0
No votes


Voters: None

No Bake
0
No votes


Voters: None

Unvote
1
6%


Voters: Alison

Pizza!!! (Host, Mods, Nonplayers, Deads)
4
24%


Voters: MacDougall, juliets, Marmot, MartinGG99


Total votes: 17

for the record, here's the vote count rn

Reposting this, thanks for the VC

[DaughterOfOmega]

Nanook has posted of 200 times, he has less than 15 posts over 25 words.

There is a majority of commentary, with no real value even during day 2 of this game.

The "solving" he does is mainly just saying reads, and not interacting/questioning people who he gives reads about.

When Nanook talks about me a couple times, it's more of a TMI thing because I know he is right, but the evidence he has to call me town at times aren't good.

[Michelle]

You know what i like now? How mafia is playing with sweet words and relaxing when they have granted a new mislynch.
No one cares about solving. No one.

tbf i did find it a little odd that michelle was so concerned about ~no one~ solving the game when she had already solved the game from her perspective. she seemed pretty confident about a me/esooa/nutella scumworld, and she seemed pretty content to tell people to sheep her reads if she flipped green

This is 110% shady from SPF

The context was a totally happiness from everyone, outside the game thing, where i can bet mafia felt at ease posting heart kindness because they could be honest in posting that and what i pointed out was about the others lack of solve, in a moment when i was at 2 votes from being eliminated. Linking this with my own solve looks performative.

from my point of view, it felt like you had a solve that you felt 100% confident about, and a solve that you were completely satisfied having people sheep after you got chopped. that's why it pinged me that you were complaining about people ~not solving~ when the game was already solved from your perspective

i get what youre saying here, though

Can you stop giving me the sensation you pat me on my head like i am a disturbed doggo?
Your last sentence feels exactly like that

About the solve, i know complacency is what kills a game for town, and knowing i am a mislynch made me complain about everyone who was complacent in approving my lynch, and the majority were, mathematically speaking, villagers.
Otoh i am not enough self sufficient to put myself as a perfect game solver, so like usual I need my townies to step up and give their solve.

What you said was opportunistic.

i'm talking to you like i would talk to literally anyone else

i'm acknowledging the reasons why you found it opportunistic, while also asking you to acknowledge that my thought process behind making that post was completely sincere

i'm starting to see a world where you're just town, and it doesn't sound fun for you to get locked into pushing me

I don't push you because i want to, i do it because i found in the saved quotes new reasons to not trust you

[DaughterOfOmega]

I recommend reading the ISO of Nanook and asking yourself three questions.

1. Is Nanook actively solving the game, and inspecting the people he is interacting with.

2. Is Nanook posting too much fluff for you?

3. When Nanook finally gives any reads, are they given with some kind of evidence that would convince you? Or all of his reads just commentary without some details backing it up.

[Michelle]

I recommend reading the ISO of Nanook and asking yourself three questions.

1. Is Nanook actively solving the game, and inspecting the people he is interacting with.

2. Is Nanook posting too much fluff for you?

3. When Nanook finally gives any reads, are they given with some kind of evidence that would convince you? Or all of his reads just commentary without some details backing it up.

I think he is villager for some posts and in the games where i wanted to lynch him for reasons you posted he was always villager.
I don't think scum Nanook has the reason to say he TRs me but he will not defend his reads, it is just illogical.

[DaughterOfOmega]

I recommend reading the ISO of Nanook and asking yourself three questions.

1. Is Nanook actively solving the game, and inspecting the people he is interacting with.

2. Is Nanook posting too much fluff for you?

3. When Nanook finally gives any reads, are they given with some kind of evidence that would convince you? Or all of his reads just commentary without some details backing it up.

I think he is villager for some posts and in the games where i wanted to lynch him for reasons you posted he was always villager.
I don't think scum Nanook has the reason to say he TRs me but he will not defend his reads, it is just illogical.

Weird, because the read of his I hate the most is the read on you.

[Michelle]

I recommend reading the ISO of Nanook and asking yourself three questions.

1. Is Nanook actively solving the game, and inspecting the people he is interacting with.

2. Is Nanook posting too much fluff for you?

3. When Nanook finally gives any reads, are they given with some kind of evidence that would convince you? Or all of his reads just commentary without some details backing it up.

I think he is villager for some posts and in the games where i wanted to lynch him for reasons you posted he was always villager.
I don't think scum Nanook has the reason to say he TRs me but he will not defend his reads, it is just illogical.

Weird, because the read of his I hate the most is the read on you.

We have a history of reading each other in few games. I accepted his read in this game as i did in the others, i gave him a mutual TR.
Tinfoiling a town read is not what i am doing before any scum flip in a game.

[Michelle]

I have usually independent scum reads and making possible teams is not a thing i find as useful.
They are only helping mafia if a 'team' is made by wrong associations.
Is rather useful to search for 3 independent scums.
'but Michelle you gave a 3 players Poe'
Yes i did, because i felt in that moment that they have the same narrative.
If something is wrong it will be obvious in further flips.

[Michelle]

ellie is a fine wagon and a probable scum flip, but i will say that i struggle to see michelle outing the reads that she has today with a town mindset. i don't get the townreads on her

Basically this kind if posts are not helping me to understand you are town motivated.
You say too many times you struggle to read me, like you are fixated on this word to express your thoughts, and from my pov wolves are often repeating words and stances to make known their ideas but they don't realise repetition shows they have a rigid mindset.

[Michelle]

Michelle can still be mafia by analytic reduction. There's a part of me that wants to run the hell away from "it hurt my feelings", but I am not allowed to make hard emotion reads anymore

[Michelle]

i relate to jagged in the sense that michelle made me feel guilty on d1 and her ate has been one of the few things about her that i've found towny

if i could find an example of michelle ATE'ing like that as scum, it'd prolly be helpful

My problem with meta is exactly this, it can be misinterpreted to fit a narrative and i am fighting with this concept since long time.
Is completely useless to dig after other games to search because every game has its unique environment even with the same players and idk if someone plays carbon copy after another game.

While searching for meta may help the game for a difficult read reducing the play at a meta hunt means you don't really pay attention to this very game