The Hobbit Mafia: Day 12

[kneel4justice]

In case it was missed....what is this way or item or role? Everything is on Page One. You are are trying to get us to lynch him without telling us why we should. You are bad news.

Your response should have consisted of saying there was no item or role.
I didn't know if there was and I did not feel it necessarily to check since we were having a discussion. oop.

You've made it this far without knowing what the items do? Is that because most of the items are more useful to civs than mafia (nk protects, role checks) and so you didn't feel the need to study them?

I'm not trying to disrespect our mod but I honestly didn't even know there were items until like the previous day phase lol

[thellama73]

I'm not trying to disrespect our mod but I honestly didn't even know there were items until like the previous day phase lol

So you thought the gold you have been earning was for... what exactly?

[Epignosis]

In case it was missed....what is this way or item or role? Everything is on Page One. You are are trying to get us to lynch him without telling us why we should. You are bad news.

Your response should have consisted of saying there was no item or role.
I didn't know if there was and I did not feel it necessarily to check since we were having a discussion. oop.

I called you out on a matter and you're telling me what I should have said? You're Turnip Head's Goblin partner and you threw him under the bus because you didn't figure he'd have much time.

Didn't you?

DIDN'T YOU?

[thellama73]

I'm not trying to disrespect our mod but I honestly didn't even know there were items until like the previous day phase lol

And what does SVS have to do with your not reading the original host posts?

[kneel4justice]

In case it was missed....what is this way or item or role? Everything is on Page One. You are are trying to get us to lynch him without telling us why we should. You are bad news.

Your response should have consisted of saying there was no item or role.
I didn't know if there was and I did not feel it necessarily to check since we were having a discussion. oop.

I called you out on a matter and you're telling me what I should have said? You're Turnip Head's Goblin partner and you threw him under the bus because you didn't figure he'd have much time.

Didn't you?

DIDN'T YOU?

I suspected him before you.
I don't make long cases like you do.
I read a players behavior and make up my mind from that.

I got people talking about him when Snow was going to be lynched.

So, no.

[kneel4justice]

I'm not trying to disrespect our mod but I honestly didn't even know there were items until like the previous day phase lol

And what does SVS have to do with your not reading the original host posts?

I meant host, on KSITE we only have a mod and that is the person who runs the game.

[Epignosis]

I'm not trying to disrespect our mod but I honestly didn't even know there were items until like the previous day phase lol

And what does SVS have to do with your not reading the original host posts?

To be fair, I think "Mod" = "Host" in their culture.

[thellama73]

I don't believe you about the items. I think you got caught in a lie and are digging yourself in deeper. We have had so many contests that earn gold, and you never thought "Hmm, I wonder what this gold is for" or noticed that there is a huge list of items on the first page? I find that incredible, in the literal sense of the word.

[Epignosis]

In case it was missed....what is this way or item or role? Everything is on Page One. You are are trying to get us to lynch him without telling us why we should. You are bad news.

Your response should have consisted of saying there was no item or role.
I didn't know if there was and I did not feel it necessarily to check since we were having a discussion. oop.

I called you out on a matter and you're telling me what I should have said? You're Turnip Head's Goblin partner and you threw him under the bus because you didn't figure he'd have much time.

Didn't you?

DIDN'T YOU?

I suspected him before you.
I don't make long cases like you do.
I read a players behavior and make up my mind from that.

I got people talking about him when Snow was going to be lynched.

So, no.

All right. Let's slow down.

Who do you think should go?

[kneel4justice]

I don't believe you about the items. I think you got caught in a lie and are digging yourself in deeper. We have had so many contests that earn gold, and you never thought "Hmm, I wonder what this gold is for" or noticed that there is a huge list of items on the first page? I find that incredible, in the literal sense of the word.

That would be a very stupid thing to lie about.
I saw people spending gold that one time when there was something where we had to come up with like 600 and then I was like wait, what? How do people know much gold they have. And then I started looking around. I felt bad about it because I should have known sooner. The culture here is very different from mine and I just thought that I could go with the flow and understand the game mechanics. It was my mistake and I didn't really want to speak on it because I thought it was disrespectful to the host, but I didn't see the item post originally and I never went back thinking I missed something until recently.

[kneel4justice]

In case it was missed....what is this way or item or role? Everything is on Page One. You are are trying to get us to lynch him without telling us why we should. You are bad news.

Your response should have consisted of saying there was no item or role.
I didn't know if there was and I did not feel it necessarily to check since we were having a discussion. oop.

I called you out on a matter and you're telling me what I should have said? You're Turnip Head's Goblin partner and you threw him under the bus because you didn't figure he'd have much time.

Didn't you?

DIDN'T YOU?

I suspected him before you.
I don't make long cases like you do.
I read a players behavior and make up my mind from that.

I got people talking about him when Snow was going to be lynched.

So, no.

All right. Let's slow down.

Who do you think should go?

I think that Llama and Splints have a good chance of being TH's partners, and due to what you pointed out AP/Kylemii seems to have been the last Moria.

[thellama73]

I don't believe you about the items. I think you got caught in a lie and are digging yourself in deeper. We have had so many contests that earn gold, and you never thought "Hmm, I wonder what this gold is for" or noticed that there is a huge list of items on the first page? I find that incredible, in the literal sense of the word.

That would be a very stupid thing to lie about.
I saw people spending gold that one time when there was something where we had to come up with like 600 and then I was like wait, what? How do people know much gold they have. And then I started looking around. I felt bad about it because I should have known sooner. The culture here is very different from mine and I just thought that I could go with the flow and understand the game mechanics. It was my mistake and I didn't really want to speak on it because I thought it was disrespectful to the host, but I didn't see the item post originally and I never went back thinking I missed something until recently.

I'm not trying to be mean, but I have never been to KSite and I don't understand what you mean. Is the culture over there not to read anything the host posts? Because gold has been mentioned in almost every Day and Night period. Help me out here.

[thellama73]

I think that Llama and Splints have a good chance of being TH's partners, and due to what you pointed out AP/Kylemii seems to have been the last Moria.

Pssht, Rob knows I'm on the side of the angels.

[kneel4justice]

I don't believe you about the items. I think you got caught in a lie and are digging yourself in deeper. We have had so many contests that earn gold, and you never thought "Hmm, I wonder what this gold is for" or noticed that there is a huge list of items on the first page? I find that incredible, in the literal sense of the word.

That would be a very stupid thing to lie about.
I saw people spending gold that one time when there was something where we had to come up with like 600 and then I was like wait, what? How do people know much gold they have. And then I started looking around. I felt bad about it because I should have known sooner. The culture here is very different from mine and I just thought that I could go with the flow and understand the game mechanics. It was my mistake and I didn't really want to speak on it because I thought it was disrespectful to the host, but I didn't see the item post originally and I never went back thinking I missed something until recently.

I'm not trying to be mean, but I have never been to KSite and I don't understand what you mean. Is the culture over there not to read anything the host posts? Because gold has been mentioned in almost every Day and Night period. Help me out here.

Our rules are always the same, there's never anything different. We don't know the roles and we do not know any items or game mechanics, at least not until later on when an event or something may be announced. The mods stories for a lynch/night kill are just strictly flavor and for fun, they do not give any information away, and I had been assuming that was what the posts here were. Except for the posts about the poll (which I didn't realize were necessary since the question and choices I thought were just self explanatory and nothing deeper). You might not believe me and think it is stupid of me, and it is, I didn't make the best choices but I've always been the type to just go with the flow in games and focus on suspicions and reading players rather than worrying about the game's roles. It sounds selfish and I do apologize for that because I feel bad especially to a first time host.

[kneel4justice]

I think that Llama and Splints have a good chance of being TH's partners, and due to what you pointed out AP/Kylemii seems to have been the last Moria.

Pssht, Rob knows I'm on the side of the angels.

Just like he 'knows' I am bad. He doesn't know everything.

[kneel4justice]

Also worth noting thta on Day 2, when K4J was in danger of being lynched, A Person (now Kyle) voted for INH, the only vote he took, in order to have no connection to the lynch.

Can you explain how that's relevant?

It's the behavior I would expect from one teammate when the other is taking heavy suspicion.

I just realized this has a flaw. If AP is a Moria like this evidence suggests, I cannot be on his team because there is only one Moria left but you are trying to make this connection happen.

[Bullzeye]

So I did a bit of vote analysis in an attempt to be more objective since my gut has been wrong all game. I'm going to assume that there is at least one goblin among the Snow Dog voters trying to save TH. Looking at the voting records of those people, the worst one (apart from me! Ha!) is Bullzeye.
Snow Dog, FZ, Missed Vote, Mongoose , Mongoose, Vompatti, A Person, Snow Dog.

He's gotten next to no scrutiny all game, and I think it's interesting that he defended Boogs so hard after most of the Moria Goblins were dead. A baddie could do that and be (almost) sure that they were defending a civilian, which would make them look good. Before the demise of the Moria Goblins, he was much less adamant about anything.

Bullz will be getting my attention today.

Are you seriously going to suggest I tried to save TH by voting Snow? When I voted TH had one vote and I was Snow's fourth. There didn't seem to be any danger of TH being lynched - so no need for anybody to try to save him yet. I have no idea how you leapt to that conclusion. I didn't defend Boogs, I rarely defend anyone. I just didn't see the case against him and thought it was over-exaggerated and latched onto by baddies looking for an easy target. I'd been less adamant previously because like I said in about half my posts I've been really busy for a large portion of this game and only became not-busy quite recently. By all means look, but you'll not find a goblin here. Besides, I kinda think Snow and TH may have been allies. It's not based on much but TH did come out saying he wasn't seeing Snow as bad because he didn't seem to be connected to any potential teammates.

[Epignosis]

I don't believe you about the items. I think you got caught in a lie and are digging yourself in deeper. We have had so many contests that earn gold, and you never thought "Hmm, I wonder what this gold is for" or noticed that there is a huge list of items on the first page? I find that incredible, in the literal sense of the word.

That would be a very stupid thing to lie about.
I saw people spending gold that one time when there was something where we had to come up with like 600 and then I was like wait, what? How do people know much gold they have. And then I started looking around. I felt bad about it because I should have known sooner. The culture here is very different from mine and I just thought that I could go with the flow and understand the game mechanics. It was my mistake and I didn't really want to speak on it because I thought it was disrespectful to the host, but I didn't see the item post originally and I never went back thinking I missed something until recently.

I'm not trying to be mean, but I have never been to KSite and I don't understand what you mean. Is the culture over there not to read anything the host posts? Because gold has been mentioned in almost every Day and Night period. Help me out here.

Our rules are always the same, there's never anything different. We don't know the roles and we do not know any items or game mechanics, at least not until later on when an event or something may be announced. The mods stories for a lynch/night kill are just strictly flavor and for fun, they do not give any information away, and I had been assuming that was what the posts here were. Except for the posts about the poll (which I didn't realize were necessary since the question and choices I thought were just self explanatory and nothing deeper). You might not believe me and think it is stupid of me, and it is, I didn't make the best choices but I've always been the type to just go with the flow in games and focus on suspicions and reading players rather than worrying about the game's roles. It sounds selfish and I do apologize for that because I feel bad especially to a first time host.

There's something in your signature that belies all of this.

[thellama73]

Also worth noting thta on Day 2, when K4J was in danger of being lynched, A Person (now Kyle) voted for INH, the only vote he took, in order to have no connection to the lynch.

Can you explain how that's relevant?

It's the behavior I would expect from one teammate when the other is taking heavy suspicion.

I just realized this has a flaw. If AP is a Moria like this evidence suggests, I cannot be on his team because there is only one Moria left but you are trying to make this connection happen.

You're right. I was getting AP and TH mixed up in my head, but TH 2.0 wasn't around for that lynch. My mistake.

[juliets]

It looks like i will have to vote tonight because i will be traveling tomorrow. Epig has presented some good cases but i have lots of re-reading to do. If anyone wants to discuss please jump in. What does everyone think of Epig's case on Kyle? I don't think he has responded unless I missed it. I think it's a pretty decent case for Kyle being the last Moria. I'm pretty sure Epig is right about missing night PMs, I seem to remember that when I hosted. Also the computer issue makes the theory even more believable imo. Anyone else with thoughts on this?

I thought Epig's case on k4j was also good. k4j has at least been responding and I need to go back over his responses to see how much of Epg's case they refute. I did read through them but did not consider them on a point by point basis. I think llama put in his 2 cents on this case - how about anyone else? Does is seem plausible or likely to be true to you?

I know the WC is on and I'm watching it too but if anyone wants to discuss while watching I'm here.

[Russtifinko]

Message from the Host:

Anyone who signs up for MP's Fight Club game, and then PMs him saying it was I who recruited them, may cc me in the PM and will receive a bounty of 500 gold. Deadies who may be looking for that shot at resurrection can earn 1000 gold by doing so (which, I think, would put a number of them fairly close to getting back).

Thanks!

[kneel4justice]

There's something in your signature that belies all of this.

I made a choice as a person, there's no way I can defend that as a player.
CAH was my first time being mafia on this site so I tried to get a handle on the game better, IDEK if I actually tried until I had BTSC with TH.

[kneel4justice]

I thought Epig's case on k4j was also good. k4j has at least been responding and I need to go back over his responses to see how much of Epg's case they refute. I did read through them but did not consider them on a point by point basis. I think llama put in his 2 cents on this case - how about anyone else? Does is seem plausible or likely to be true to you?

Yeah, you do need to reread my responses because after those I do not see how anyone can view his case as good.

[thellama73]

Message from the Host:

Anyone who signs up for MP's Fight Club game, and then PMs him saying it was I who recruited them, may cc me in the PM and will receive a bounty of 500 gold. This also applies to deadies who may be looking for that shot at resurrection.

Thanks!

Well that hardly seems fair.

[Tangrowth]

Message from the Host:

Anyone who signs up for MP's Fight Club game, and then PMs him saying it was I who recruited them, may cc me in the PM and will receive a bounty of 500 gold. This also applies to deadies who may be looking for that shot at resurrection.

Thanks!

LOL, now this is recruiting.

This is not my doing, but I must say it is an amusing application of intertwining the current game with the subsequent!

[Tangrowth]

Also, rezz please?

[fingersplints]

What if I convince someone to play other than myself and have them say you recruited them? is there any gold in that situation?

[fingersplints]

It looks like i will have to vote tonight because i will be traveling tomorrow. Epig has presented some good cases but i have lots of re-reading to do. If anyone wants to discuss please jump in. What does everyone think of Epig's case on Kyle? I don't think he has responded unless I missed it. I think it's a pretty decent case for Kyle being the last Moria. I'm pretty sure Epig is right about missing night PMs, I seem to remember that when I hosted. Also the computer issue makes the theory even more believable imo. Anyone else with thoughts on this?

I thought Epig's case on k4j was also good. k4j has at least been responding and I need to go back over his responses to see how much of Epg's case they refute. I did read through them but did not consider them on a point by point basis. I think llama put in his 2 cents on this case - how about anyone else? Does is seem plausible or likely to be true to you?

I know the WC is on and I'm watching it too but if anyone wants to discuss while watching I'm here.

hello juliets. I don't want you to feel ignored so I am going to comment on this.

I have been a pretty big failure at judging people this game. Maybe it's because I'm too busy to play really. I'm trying to keep an open mind about this kitty suspicion and not let my opinion on Epig stop me from considering it again.

As for his "mistake" about the items. Juliets, you may be one of the people who understand my stance on this better than most. I used to get a lot of shit early on in games for not reading the roles. There was even a game when I didn't know my own win condition. I can see kitty's standpoint. He is used to smaller games with no roles listed so the amount of role info/items could have been intimidating. He could very well be lying about this, but I don't see that as a mistake he would make.

Though I do have an issue with this:

And is it impossible that TH 2.0 thought that K4J was someone he'd rather not go up against? I don't think so. TH knows from the game at KSITE I can be a pain for him (no offense to him), but I don't see how it is odd that he didn't want to truly engage in suspecting me. I am pretty sure he knew it would come right back at him.

I don't know what you are talking about here. You were teammates with TH for a lot of that game. You may have caused him a bit of trouble in the beginning but you were hardly a pain for him. I feel like you are overstating this since most people here wouldn't know better about what happened that game.

[kneel4justice]

I don't know what you are talking about here. You were teammates with TH for a lot of that game. You may have caused him a bit of trouble in the beginning but you were hardly a pain for him. I feel like you are overstating this since most people here wouldn't know better about what happened that game.

I am not overstating anything, Splints.
I do think that I caused him some trouble in that game. As well as FZ, but I remember going against him for quite sometime.

[Russtifinko]

What if I convince someone to play other than myself and have them say you recruited them? is there any gold in that situation?

Great idea! You can also earn 300 gold by recruiting other players and having them say I recruited them. Just make sure they cc me in the PM, or that you get it verified by MP.

[kneel4justice]

I don't know what you are talking about here. You were teammates with TH for a lot of that game. You may have caused him a bit of trouble in the beginning but you were hardly a pain for him. I feel like you are overstating this since most people here wouldn't know better about what happened that game.

I am not overstating anything, Splints.
I do think that I caused him some trouble in that game. As well as FZ, but I remember going against him for quite sometime.

And I would not even overstate something because people wouldn't know better when clearly if I was overstating something I would expect to be called our by either you or Juliets who played that game.

[insertnamehere]

OK, Russti, how much does my firstborn get me?

[juliets]

Thanks for your thoughts splints. I'm most likely going to give k4j the botd today because time is slipping away and I haven't had time yet to re-read him.

[Russtifinko]

OK, Russti, how much does my firstborn get me?

Depends. Is it male or female? And how strong is it?

[Dom]

K4J, who do you think should go?

[kneel4justice]

K4J, who do you think should go?

I have said multiple times, and I don't have a problem saying it again I just feel like when (some) people are asking me they're implying or giving off the idea that I haven't actually spoke on my suspicions.

Judging mainly by their interaction with TH or around TH, I would say that I am most suspicion of Llama and Splints.

I've spoke on Llama. I just didn't like how he thought a quiet TH was a better sign than a vocal TH. I thought it was trying to push the idea of his innocence, though of course he could just have been wrong.
With Splints, it was just the last minute vote for Snow that I found odd and I thought there was a good chance that Splints was trying to save TH.

[kneel4justice]

Although Splints sticking up for me, saying she used to get in trouble for not reading the roles gave me a pause because I'm not quite sure why a baddie would defend me on that subject, so I am slightly conflicted but I have to remember just because someone defends me doesn't mean they are civ and just because someone suspects me doesn't mean they're bad. But it did make me wonder a bit more if I was wrong.

[thellama73]

I pointed out before that there is a chance K4J is Smaug, and I still think that is the case. Combined with Epig's case (which I find quite strong) I will probably vote for k4j today. The odds seem in favor of getting either a goblin or a dragon.

[kneel4justice]

I pointed out before that there is a chance K4J is Smaug, and I still think that is the case. Combined with Epig's case (which I find quite strong) I will probably vote for k4j today. The odds seem in favor of getting either a goblin or a dragon.

You find Epi's case strong? Which points, please.
Because I cannot understand how you think that I am Smaug when half his case is my interaction with TH.
It does not add up.

[Dom]

So, K4J, which would you advocate?

[kneel4justice]

So, K4J, which would you advocate?

Right now Llama because he is trying too hard to find me suspect.
He wants to call me Smaug so badly, but he finds Epi's case strong? The one that focuses most on my interaction with TH?

I think he is probably TH's teammate and doesn't want to rely on me being a Goblin because he knows it isn't true. I feel like he keeps grabbing at things to make me bad.

[thellama73]

I pointed out before that there is a chance K4J is Smaug, and I still think that is the case. Combined with Epig's case (which I find quite strong) I will probably vote for k4j today. The odds seem in favor of getting either a goblin or a dragon.

You find Epi's case strong? Which points, please.
Because I cannot understand how you think that I am Smaug when half his case is my interaction with TH.
It does not add up.

I don't think you are both Smaug and a Goblin, that would be absurd. I think Epig's case is strong based on your interactions with TH, and I think thta even if he is wrong there is a good chance you are Smaug, so there is a high probability of a good outcome by lynching you.

[thellama73]

He wants to call me Smaug so badly, but he finds Epi's case strong? The one that focuses most on my interaction with TH?

I don't see what is inconsistent about this. There are two competing cases both painting you bad in different ways. Two cases is better than one, since if one is not true, the other still might be.

[kneel4justice]

I pointed out before that there is a chance K4J is Smaug, and I still think that is the case. Combined with Epig's case (which I find quite strong) I will probably vote for k4j today. The odds seem in favor of getting either a goblin or a dragon.

You find Epi's case strong? Which points, please.
Because I cannot understand how you think that I am Smaug when half his case is my interaction with TH.
It does not add up.

I don't think you are both Smaug and a Goblin, that would be absurd. I think Epig's case is strong based on your interactions with TH, and I think thta even if he is wrong there is a good chance you are Smaug, so there is a high probability of a good outcome by lynching you.

But you are playing both sides of me being Smaug and Goblin.
It just comes off like you are deadset on me being being bad and trying to push this lynch.

[kneel4justice]

He wants to call me Smaug so badly, but he finds Epi's case strong? The one that focuses most on my interaction with TH?

I don't see what is inconsistent about this. There are two competing cases both painting you bad in different ways. Two cases is better than one, since if one is not true, the other still might be.

Your 'case' that I am Smaug is barely a case.

[thellama73]

I pointed out before that there is a chance K4J is Smaug, and I still think that is the case. Combined with Epig's case (which I find quite strong) I will probably vote for k4j today. The odds seem in favor of getting either a goblin or a dragon.

You find Epi's case strong? Which points, please.
Because I cannot understand how you think that I am Smaug when half his case is my interaction with TH.
It does not add up.

I don't think you are both Smaug and a Goblin, that would be absurd. I think Epig's case is strong based on your interactions with TH, and I think thta even if he is wrong there is a good chance you are Smaug, so there is a high probability of a good outcome by lynching you.

But you are playing both sides of me being Smaug and Goblin.
It just comes off like you are deadset on me being being bad and trying to push this lynch.

Again, there is nothing inconsistent about seeing two different ways in which you could be bad. It is not "playing both sides." It would be foolish to ignore evidence for you being Smaug just because there is also evidence for you being a goblin. Surely you can see that, or else you are pretending not to be able to in order to make a case on me.


linki: it's actually an excellent case.

[kneel4justice]

It is a theory that has nothing to do with my behavior. So, whatever.

[thellama73]

It is a theory that has nothing to do with my behavior. So, whatever.

Since when do cases have to be based on behavior? If there was a role that said "cannot be lynched" and we tried repeatedly and failed to lynch a player, it would be reasonable to assume they had that role, which would have nothing to do with their behavior.

There are other clues besides behavioral ones. Why did Smaug lay dormant until Night 3? My theory is that something woke him up. You are the only surviving person to receive a lot of votes prior to Night 3. I think it's reasonable to make the leap that taking all those votes woke you up and made you start protecting your treasure.

[thellama73]

Speaking of Smaug:
Host: Did the Smaug art contest ever get judged? I saw no results.

[Epignosis]

Speaking of Smaug:
Host: Did the Smaug art contest ever get judged? I saw no results.

I asked about that earlier. The answer is no, but the results are forthcoming.