Nanook is a Bastard Town Win!

[chardonnay]

The fact that Martian has arguably the most WIM left of the living roster I'm not even going to bother to reconsider the TR I've developed there. If i get stuck in a elo/melo situation with Martian then I will review his slot more seriously.

I could make a similar argument for Made, but I kinda forgot why i was TRing him, oof.

Also LC i need to look at.

[chardonnay]

@TonyStarkPrime

Can you eleborate on the town tell on Marmot you mentioned the other day? How successful is it?

[chardonnay]

Man the baddies are really coming out of the woodwork to jump on lil old me.

You guys have grievances you wanna talk about? Those would be good.

Who do you think is most likely team?

Who is mostly likely scum to you not considering assossitives? is it Marmot?

[chardonnay]

Oh yeah, Made exudes town looking paranoia several times this game. Expressing concerns over things that I dont think mafia would be comfortable asserting. Like the "Maybe mod OP is lie, and ties aren't mafia kill choice" line.

I think tonally he looks town over all I'd say.

-/-/-/-

Ill lookit LC tomorrow.

[Marmot]

I've tried to claim vanilla town several times I hope people noticed.

[Marmot]

I'm surprised Mac was killed last night, I guess the mafia really bought his doc claim.

[Marmot]

"Potential for mod lies! I promise it’ll be fun."

Anybody seen any reason to think lies are happening?

[Marmot]

For those of you claiming fake roles, namely speedchuck and Made. Did y'all target anyone last night?

@speedchuck @Made plz respond.

[Marmot]

I don't want to treat this like a mountainous 9 player setup because it isn't supposed to be one, but someone plz give me reasons not to treat it as such.

[Marmot]

Also, hammer is 5 today, dont rush it plz.

[Marmot]

TSP's iso is kinda meh. He gave a lot of townreads yesterday, no scumreads though. Unless you count his calling of speddchuk/myself the scum team in rvs stage. I don't.

nanook told me that someone is town therefore they are a wolf is this good logic

I came across this post TSP, what does it mean? Who's town?

[Marmot]

Or by your logic, who's wolf?

[Marmot]

IMO wolves will either unintentionally not interact with eachother or they will and when they do they will try to sell it

this has no selling value so don't paint that as w/w unless you think we're both bad

hello my fellow townsman

would you like to join me on a vote on [VOTE: Macaplyier?

I don't think he's good this game] aubergine

can you elaborate on why you are scum reading Mac?

He usally seems same-y in the small sample size of early games i've seen of his.

okay i didn't want to share this too soon, but it may help the thread.
i was informed that I took a n0 vig shot against a player because i thought they were talking fun, and that they were mafia.

I don't recall doing this, and from what i can tell everyone is still alive, BUT if i were to of taken a N0 vig shot, it would of been at Mac. therefore he's very likely mafia this game

That said, [VOTE: Esoaa
is probably just mafia here] aubergine

Why would you have taken a N0 vig of Mac? I'm curious because Mac is now dead. It's probably a coincidence, but

[Marmot]

Crazy idea. Everyone has to state their night targets in the thread instead of via pm, and so Mac doced speedchuck and Made kill Mac.

[Marmot]

Yeah it's crazy. So is Nanook. I dunno, this probably isn't the way, but why would Mac say who he was doccing?

[Marmot]

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

Let's see what happens.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I feel like something's off with TSP, granted I don't think I've had a whole tonnage of experience playing with him.

But this just feels tonally off to go from this

vote martin i guess

cereal with knife turned out poorly

to this

i mean jfc

no one has reasoned to me exactly why someone else is scum

even after I claimed I didn't really have any reads

like the lack of town coordination or ability on display here

is just bad imo overall

fine you can be town

Or at least when I say "fine", or starting with it, it generally has more agitation with it.

Here he could've said:

"ok you can be town"
"I've changed my mind martin is town"
"I don't think martin is scum now"

etc etc etc

Instead he just says "fine you can be town", which looks and feels a lot different to me than from where he originally started as "vote martin I guess"


Granted ofc this could be to me not knowing him well as a player.

Tone read on fine vs ok is a new one.

[TonyStarkPrime]

@TonyStarkPrime

Can you eleborate on the town tell on Marmot you mentioned the other day? How successful is it?

How would I know he’s still alive(?) Bayes suggests that’s not good for my case but oh well.

He might not like this but on a secondary level wolves in danger don’t often scumread people just for townreading them :P

[TonyStarkPrime]

TSP's iso is kinda meh. He gave a lot of townreads yesterday, no scumreads though. Unless you count his calling of speddchuk/myself the scum team in rvs stage. I don't.

nanook told me that someone is town therefore they are a wolf is this good logic

I came across this post TSP, what does it mean? Who's town?

Someone who wants you dead, it’s not good for you

[TonyStarkPrime]

I’m sorta convinced that Nanook might have given us random jokey things to do D0 that don’t mean anything

[TonyStarkPrime]

D1 Speed chuck was hard to figure out since I thought the thing about copping Tony's partner just seemed like a joke, but i did want him to out the result for curiosity. He backed off later and said it was a post restriction thing. I did take his word at face value, and didnt press it since i didnt see it as particularly useful info to pick at.

I think post restrictions should be treated as non-AI this game. Not sure if i have said that already.

I do think that Speed tying up the votes is probably the singerly most scummy thing he has done this game. Like, its scummy wheather or not Marmot turns out to be scum. Giving mafia the chance to choose who to shoot means they can build WIFOM on a player that was garnering suspicion, (Marmot in this case).

Really only argument i can think of for town doing this is not knowing better, I dont have the experince w/ Speed to know if town them makes a mistake like that.

So yes, i do scum lean Speed.

Tony SR was fueled by spinning non-ai things about me as if they were scummy.

Just seemed like he was saying things for the sake of putting reads out there, but not really thinking about it in a slovely way. If that makes sense.

Of course im not very familiar with Tony, so there could be method to the madness.

Sort by character count become WW expert?

Char puts almost zero thought into this read on me, puts paragraphs in on Speed, and still inexplicably has a bloodlust for the groundhog

[TonyStarkPrime]

Speed is largely persona non grata. No reason to think it’s Speed/Marmot because Speed doesn’t need to tie up the votes to save Marmot if Marmot is voting off wagon

[TonyStarkPrime]

So let’s think about it.

Who kills Esooa over Marmot?

Well 1) Marmot.

[TonyStarkPrime]

If I pull Marmot from the POE though things feel better

[TonyStarkPrime]

That feels like an incredibly stupid thing to do, he’s the D1 CW

[TonyStarkPrime]

We can get there when we get there

[TonyStarkPrime]

If the Mac kill is a Marmot frame then who’s going after Marmot

[Long Con]

"Potential for mod lies! I promise it’ll be fun."

Anybody seen any reason to think lies are happening?

No host lies have been apparent.

I don't want to treat this like a mountainous 9 player setup because it isn't supposed to be one, but someone plz give me reasons not to treat it as such.

I'd say treat it like mountainous until there's reason to do otherwise. I don't think we do ourselves any favours by basing our decisions on hypothetical bastardry.

Crazy idea. Everyone has to state their night targets in the thread instead of via pm, and so Mac doced speedchuck and Made kill Mac.

Do you mean hypothetical targets? Like, vanillas would state who they would target? With what ability? I wanna be that one that seduces players to not kill me.

Yeah it's crazy. So is Nanook. I dunno, this probably isn't the way, but why would Mac say who he was doccing?

I think he was just throwing a line out there, and it wasn't real. Luring the kill. Unless eliminations are just all janitored, which could be the case. We didn't even get to see his role's bastardy name, did we?

@TonyStarkPrime

Can you eleborate on the town tell on Marmot you mentioned the other day? How successful is it?

How would I know he’s still alive(?) Bayes suggests that’s not good for my case but oh well.

He might not like this but on a secondary level wolves in danger don’t often scumread people just for townreading them :P

Who is Bayes?

I’m sorta convinced that Nanook might have given us random jokey things to do D0 that don’t mean anything

I'm more convinced that we have descriptive role names that were never supposed to be any sort of instruction.

I'm also of the mind that there are - at least to start? - most or all vanilla roles in this game. And that we can't judge alignment based on role names and the possible fallacies players have had in dealing with the names.

[Long Con]

When y’all think bastard, what do y’all expect?
Like I assumed just role switches, things like that
[VOTE: ] aubergine

[VOTE:

People being lied to about their roles.

Broken game mechanics like jesters and maybe lynchers as well.

False cops who aren't told they are false cops. Unreliable information. Nanook straight-up lying to us.

IDK. Been a long time since I've played a roight bastad game.] aubergine

I do have a suspicion that Made's role could involve catching people with open vote tags though. You'll never get me!

[Long Con]

Gut read: ties aren’t resolved by mafia. I’m cool where things are I think

Where were things at this point? I assume they were tied?

[Long Con]

When a game or rule is considered "bastard", is that generally negative for the town, or just potentially negative for any alignment?

[Long Con]

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

Don't make Mac do all the work for you.

So Marmot cast this vote after voting Esooa and making it a 3-3 tie between Esooa and Marmot.

So he decided to make it 3-2-1 for Marmot-Esooa-TSP.

That feels like an action that is designed to make us say "Why would a wolf do that? Probably just towny." It's a tactic that has won me game sin the past as a wolf.

inb4 I flip Mafia instead of Vapor Trails.

What does this mean? What's Vapor Trails? Is this connected to Vanity Towels? Oh goddammit I get it now never mind. Bah.

[Long Con]

The end of Day 1 was entirely ridiculous. Everyone involved seem to be making the worst possible decisions.

It ended with Marmot and Essoa tied.

That looks awful for Martin, who was voting off either wagon despite being present at Day's end.

It looks awful for Esooa, just based on general understanding of the rules of the game.

It looks awful for Marmot, survivor of the tie he could have very easily broken.

Martin is a wolf. [VOTE: Martin] aubergine

[Marmot]

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

Don't make Mac do all the work for you.

So Marmot cast this vote after voting Esooa and making it a 3-3 tie between Esooa and Marmot.

So he decided to make it 3-2-1 for Marmot-Esooa-TSP.

That feels like an action that is designed to make us say "Why would a wolf do that? Probably just towny." It's a tactic that has won me game sin the past as a wolf.

inb4 I flip Mafia instead of Vapor Trails.

What does this mean? What's Vapor Trails? Is this connected to Vanity Towels? Oh goddammit I get it now never mind. Bah.

It was more of a "I think I'm Vermin Traps, so I don't really care if I die here over esooa" kind of vote.

[Long Con]

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

Don't make Mac do all the work for you.

So Marmot cast this vote after voting Esooa and making it a 3-3 tie between Esooa and Marmot.

So he decided to make it 3-2-1 for Marmot-Esooa-TSP.

That feels like an action that is designed to make us say "Why would a wolf do that? Probably just towny." It's a tactic that has won me game sin the past as a wolf.

inb4 I flip Mafia instead of Vapor Trails.

What does this mean? What's Vapor Trails? Is this connected to Vanity Towels? Oh goddammit I get it now never mind. Bah.

It was more of a "I think I'm Vermin Traps, so I don't really care if I die here over esooa" kind of vote.

But you didn't know if she was town or Mafia. Am I missing something, or is that shamefully suboptimal?

[Long Con]

Is this true: any yeet that does not end in a tie is always superior to a yeet that ends in a tie.

[Marmot]

The end of Day 1 was entirely ridiculous. Everyone involved seem to be making the worst possible decisions.

It ended with Marmot and Essoa tied.

That looks awful for Martin, who was voting off either wagon despite being present at Day's end.

It looks awful for Esooa, just based on general understanding of the rules of the game.

It looks awful for Marmot, survivor of the tie he could have very easily broken.

Martin is a wolf. [VOTE: Martin] aubergine

You're not wrong about Martin's vote. Although Martin is the towniest player in the game to me aside from his vote location at EOD.

Why are these the worst possible decisions? We appeared to be the only three around at EOD, meaning the wagons were hardstuck at 3-3 aside from our votes. What else could we do that would've looked better in your eyes?

[Long Con]

I also don't believe that Nanook lied on that particular rule, because it would be a really weird lie.

[Marmot]

I thought she was town. Her attitude at EOD resonated with mine.

[Long Con]

The end of Day 1 was entirely ridiculous. Everyone involved seem to be making the worst possible decisions.

It ended with Marmot and Essoa tied.

That looks awful for Martin, who was voting off either wagon despite being present at Day's end.

It looks awful for Esooa, just based on general understanding of the rules of the game.

It looks awful for Marmot, survivor of the tie he could have very easily broken.

Martin is a wolf. [VOTE: Martin] aubergine

You're not wrong about Martin's vote. Although Martin is the towniest player in the game to me aside from his vote location at EOD.

Why are these the worst possible decisions? We appeared to be the only three around at EOD, meaning the wagons were hardstuck at 3-3 aside from our votes. What else could we do that would've looked better in your eyes?

You could have at least tried a vote that takes the power away from the mafia team. Unless you mean it was just an accepted assumption that if you voted for her, she would instantly vote for you?

[Long Con]

I thought she was town. Her attitude at EOD resonated with mine.

Yeah, but you are wrong sometimes, aren't you? Like, does that not factor into a decision like this in a very important way?

[Marmot]

Is this true: any yeet that does not end in a tie is always superior to a yeet that ends in a tie.

In an rng world yes, definitely.

In a world where ties are decided by a game mechanic, I don't feel as strongly.

[Marmot]

I thought she was town. Her attitude at EOD resonated with mine.

Yeah, but you are wrong sometimes, aren't you? Like, does that not factor into a decision like this in a very important way?

Sure, but I also think I'm a Vote Trap and after a few "fake-claims" I figured my role is not a tough one to lose.

[Marmot]

The end of Day 1 was entirely ridiculous. Everyone involved seem to be making the worst possible decisions.

It ended with Marmot and Essoa tied.

That looks awful for Martin, who was voting off either wagon despite being present at Day's end.

It looks awful for Esooa, just based on general understanding of the rules of the game.

It looks awful for Marmot, survivor of the tie he could have very easily broken.

Martin is a wolf. [VOTE: Martin] aubergine

You're not wrong about Martin's vote. Although Martin is the towniest player in the game to me aside from his vote location at EOD.

Why are these the worst possible decisions? We appeared to be the only three around at EOD, meaning the wagons were hardstuck at 3-3 aside from our votes. What else could we do that would've looked better in your eyes?

You could have at least tried a vote that takes the power away from the mafia team. Unless you mean it was just an accepted assumption that if you voted for her, she would instantly vote for you?

If I felt my survival was important, then yes I would've voted someone I thought was town. I didn't feel that way though.

[MartinGG99]

Wait actually TSP is just voting me =_=

and Chuck is voting Marmot rn

TSP/Chuck team? hmmm

how likely a world do you see this as Martian?

well given that I've been lost for most of D1

and *perhaps* I could be missing some things

I'm not very confident on it and I'm speaking about it so that people may agree or disagree with me on it

[MartinGG99]

I'm surprised Mac was killed last night, I guess the mafia really bought his doc claim.

Tbh I wasn't sure why they killed Mac either

Like, I could have been paranoid of him for D2 but nope they closed that door

My only guess is that claim or they wanted to use his death as a justification for X push or to solidify their "town reads" because Mac agreed with them.

Or it was something like "hey lets kill someone random so why not Mac". I personally as Mafia very much like WIFOM kills on n1 and sometimes n2 where the kills don't have an immediate impact in furthering my goals (other than having killed a town). I don't know how it is for other people though.

[MartinGG99]

Anybody seen any reason to think lies are happening?

Not yet.

Only that the "lie" is where there isn't mechanical bastardy like we might expect.

[MartinGG99]

Why would you have taken a N0 vig of Mac? I'm curious because Mac is now dead. It's probably a coincidence, but

He didn't have a choice in it if I recall.

He said his role said on N0 he shot someone funny or something

and he thought that might've been Mac considering he won funniest poster in the past

[Marmot]

My poe right now consists of TSP/speedchuck.

TSP was around for some of EOD. His vote looked lazy. I'm not really sure how he could say this about me, but not about esooa. The reason I do think Martin is town even though his EOD vote was off-wagon is the means to which he got there were transparent.

TSP's overall handling of speedchuck aren't great:

the wolf team is speed/marmot. this is the way.

D1 Speed chuck was hard to figure out since I thought the thing about copping Tony's partner just seemed like a joke, but i did want him to out the result for curiosity. He backed off later and said it was a post restriction thing. I did take his word at face value, and didnt press it since i didnt see it as particularly useful info to pick at.

I think post restrictions should be treated as non-AI this game. Not sure if i have said that already.

I do think that Speed tying up the votes is probably the singerly most scummy thing he has done this game. Like, its scummy wheather or not Marmot turns out to be scum. Giving mafia the chance to choose who to shoot means they can build WIFOM on a player that was garnering suspicion, (Marmot in this case).

Really only argument i can think of for town doing this is not knowing better, I dont have the experince w/ Speed to know if town them makes a mistake like that.

So yes, i do scum lean Speed.

Tony SR was fueled by spinning non-ai things about me as if they were scummy.

Just seemed like he was saying things for the sake of putting reads out there, but not really thinking about it in a slovely way. If that makes sense.

Of course im not very familiar with Tony, so there could be method to the madness.

Sort by character count become WW expert?

Char puts almost zero thought into this read on me, puts paragraphs in on Speed, and still inexplicably has a bloodlust for the groundhog

Speed is largely persona non grata. No reason to think it’s Speed/Marmot because Speed doesn’t need to tie up the votes to save Marmot if Marmot is voting off wagon

He called for a Marmot/Speed scum team in rvs, then backed off.

I have no idea what this line is trying to say, can you expand on it TSP? What's odd about Char sussing a player they wrote paragraphs on?

It looks like an attempt to cast shade onto Char for suspecting speedchuck, even though it makes sense to given the content TSP is describing.


Then there's chuck's handling of TSP yesterday.

Hot Take: TSP mad that I red checked his partner

yes I am who'd you redcheck

Your partner.

I thought we'd been over this.

yes I am who'd you redcheck

Your partner.

I thought we'd been over this.

whose his partner?

You tell me

@Martiangg99 consolidate onto marmot please?

I could also support TSP/Esoopa

Im not interested in LC atm b/c he adores living in PoE as both alignments.

little early for consolidation innit?

I don't support a TSP lynch at this time.

Ok, it's mostly fluff.

But

Speedchuck didn't support a TSP chop. Why didn't you @speedchuck?

[Marmot]

Wait actually TSP is just voting me =_=

and Chuck is voting Marmot rn

TSP/Chuck team? hmmm

how likely a world do you see this as Martian?

well given that I've been lost for most of D1

and *perhaps* I could be missing some things

I'm not very confident on it and I'm speaking about it so that people may agree or disagree with me on it

Oh, I didn't even notice char posted that.

Yeah, I agree with him.