Game of Champions 2020 [ENDGAME]

[MacDougall]

What was Hyenas claim?

A role that could choose one person from the living to talk to a dead person each night. I thought it was a town role at first because of what it was but someone brought up that there was a role like that that was scum and I wanted to know if Hyena's role was specifically based on that scum role.

This "scumslip" tilts me a little bit. I've tried really hard to communicate clearly this game especially with my PoE status and I swear I did not scumslip and I'm not scum.

Talk to me about this scumslip. What did you do from your perspective and how is this a scum thing?

Mac says I'm caught mafia because he thinks me forgetting that Hyena's exact role was scum in a different game was somehow a scumslip. I'm not even sure why he thinks I scumslipped but he's saying I'm caught mafia.

That seems rather weak for Mac to push so strongly on.

@MacDougall I thought you were a Mafia God?

Does it?

[MartinGG99]

[gigantic block of text on Hyena]

I have to leave shortly. I won't be around for the deadline. I like my vote on Hyena and encourage others to look there. Here is my most recent argument about him, in addition to things that were said earlier in the phase, pre-claim.

The other multi-vote wagons right now appear to be cat, falcon, nutella, and thunal. If I'm ranking them in order of preference I'd go:
cat
Thunal
Falcon
[A wide gap]
nutella

But all of the nutella votes feel like leftovers from an bygone era way back at the start of this phase a hundred years ago, so I don't think she's a viable wagon anyway. I think I want to leave my vote on Hyena to at least promote him as an option as we move toward the deadline. Thank you for your support, Kyle. I prefer cat over Thunal if things do not change from their current trajectory. If I can keep an eye on the thread while I'm at work, I will, but there's no guarantee of that.

This has been probably the highest volume Day 1 I've ever participated in. Excellent work, y'all. Let's make it a successful one. Keep doing what needs to be done.

I would agree overall with your hyena case, and I'll likely sheep it in the future if there's no one else who should be executed.

However, I do recall the role that was used in U-Pick, which I'm guessing its being referred to. I would like to point out there's a distinct difference between "I can communicate with any dead player" (which is what U-Pick had, I believe) and "I can chose someone who's alive to have a chat with someone who is dead each phase". Regardless though I believe both roles aren't necessarily or inherently towny, but I think its an important distinction nonetheless to make.

Keep doing what needs to be done

"What needs to be done" is for people to not scum-read Thunal. As I've said I feel like they're quite similar, or at least in mindset or thought process, as compared to their Grasslands game.

I really would not like to believe they can replicate that as scum until they prove me wrong. It'll just cause problems for me in future games with them if I keep on fearing "but what if they're just really really good at copying their town game".

[Thunal33]

Do you have any thoughts on any of the people who are voting for you?

Here to wait for my death. Not to solve me, atleast judging from the last few pages. You will wait for D2 and then blame it on inactivity or something. A bunch of people prodding at others to avoid backlash later probably. It took one post to look at Thunal/dyachei interaction that dyachei is completely ignoring Thunal right now to push them . Nutella is being helpful and actually doing stuff. I'm not sure why you are trying to counterwagon right now when i'm the top wagon.

Please name names.
Also is that an accusation directed against dya? Why? I do not know what you are referring to.

Pretty much everyone around is guilty. The people who openly don't give a shit are the towniest right now. Kylemii and Syn from what i can tell.
Inbetween me arriving and making my second post. I don't know the full context, but Thunal writes a defense, and Dyachei skips half of it and focuses on the emotional content. I don't know if Thunal is actually suspicious but it makes thunal look towny from an outsider's perspective.

This is interesting. I actually think not caring about solving is >rand scum because scum doesn't have the same motivation to solve for the other scum as town does to solve for scum. I feel like it would make sense from town!Cat who doesn't care to think the opposite since he's not caring a lot. I'm skimming Cat's ISO right now and it feels different from both the town ISOs and the scum ISO in his previous games. He's putting in more effort than he did in any of those games.

[Thunal33]

Both Cat and Falcon have a somewhat apathetic response to them being wagons. I like Cat's reaction a bit better than Falcon's because Cat is at least trying a little to give a legacy.

[MartinGG99]

Does it?

quite frankly

I don't even know how forgetting a role was scum-sided in a past game is a scum slip in the first place

I mean, its not like towns don't know if a role is scum-sided or town-sided and that only scum know

like how is that even a "slip", even if we assume that's an intentional omission rather than forgetfulness

[Thunal33]

Townreads (in no order):
Nutella
Martin
Tutuu
Michelle
Tim

[Marmot]

well... in my opinion these types of reads work when you know the person well and youre noticing small stuff like this

i dont believe youve played with dyachei before, and in my experience i have seen towns use the words they used, its not a scumtell, and while dya could be scum i think applying this read on them will have random accuracy

i ... was trying to say that in the most kind and respectful way, maybe i overdid it and came across as too condescending, not the intent, but, when i see types of reads that wont land well from my experience i will speak up about it since its in my interest to do so!

Sure. The response I got from you and nutella was "dya is just town", so I'll just accept that for now. It was a thing that I noticed that I pointed out, but I do appreciate the response.

Dismissing might not have been the right word for me to use, but it did feel like something in that ballpark. And despite my assertion that word usage is a useful tool, I'll admit that I'm not the best with using the right words in the right era.

[MartinGG99]

also I'm tired of seeing these stupid reasons for voting Thunal (aside from Dya's seemingly tone-gut reason for voting thunal that I disagree with)

ofc I haven't been in the thread 24/7 so idk if there's other reasons

[Thunal33]

I also townlean Mac for much less concrete reasons than the five townreads I gave. I liked his multiball strategy post and he feels like town!Mac, but I do wonder why he gave up that strategy.

[Thunal33]

What was Hyenas claim?

A role that could choose one person from the living to talk to a dead person each night. I thought it was a town role at first because of what it was but someone brought up that there was a role like that that was scum and I wanted to know if Hyena's role was specifically based on that scum role.

This "scumslip" tilts me a little bit. I've tried really hard to communicate clearly this game especially with my PoE status and I swear I did not scumslip and I'm not scum.

Talk to me about this scumslip. What did you do from your perspective and how is this a scum thing?

Mac says I'm caught mafia because he thinks me forgetting that Hyena's exact role was scum in a different game was somehow a scumslip. I'm not even sure why he thinks I scumslipped but he's saying I'm caught mafia.

That seems rather weak for Mac to push so strongly on.

@MacDougall I thought you were a Mafia God?

Does it?

You said it was antitown to make pushes and cases this game since it's multiball. Why are you making pushes and cases anyway?

[MartinGG99]

how come no one is explaining to me why we're killing cat

I would really appreciate it if, for example,

someone told me who or what started the Cat wagon

because that *totally* couldn't affect reads based on cat's flip

[MartinGG99]

like even if its really short I would appreciate it

(other than "because they're scum")

[Thunal33]

well... in my opinion these types of reads work when you know the person well and youre noticing small stuff like this

i dont believe youve played with dyachei before, and in my experience i have seen towns use the words they used, its not a scumtell, and while dya could be scum i think applying this read on them will have random accuracy

i ... was trying to say that in the most kind and respectful way, maybe i overdid it and came across as too condescending, not the intent, but, when i see types of reads that wont land well from my experience i will speak up about it since its in my interest to do so!

Sure. The response I got from you and nutella was "dya is just town", so I'll just accept that for now. It was a thing that I noticed that I pointed out, but I do appreciate the response.

Dismissing might not have been the right word for me to use, but it did feel like something in that ballpark. And despite my assertion that word usage is a useful tool, I'll admit that I'm not the best with using the right words in the right era.

Dya has a pretty big wolfrange so I'm not townreading them now. It concerns me how hyperfocused Dya's been on me this game, I dislike how they've spent more time and effort pushing me than on sorting people out or on any of their other reads.

[Thunal33]

how come no one is explaining to me why we're killing cat

I would really appreciate it if, for example,

someone told me who or what started the Cat wagon

because that *totally* couldn't affect reads based on cat's flip

I don't remember who started it, but nutella gave some ISOs of Cat in previous games and said that Cat was more like their scum game, and I read the ISOs and agreed. I feel like now they're different from both metas and their reaction to being wagoned looks towny.

[Thunal33]

Is this game open night or closed night?

[MartinGG99]

how come no one is explaining to me why we're killing cat

I would really appreciate it if, for example,

someone told me who or what started the Cat wagon

because that *totally* couldn't affect reads based on cat's flip

I don't remember who started it, but nutella gave some ISOs of Cat in previous games and said that Cat was more like their scum game, and I read the ISOs and agreed. I feel like now they're different from both metas and their reaction to being wagoned looks towny.

okay thank you

but I would caution against perhaps re-reading them for being different after their past games were mentioned.

In that case they may be trying to shake things up regardless of alignment.

[Marmot]

how come no one is explaining to me why we're killing cat

I would really appreciate it if, for example,

someone told me who or what started the Cat wagon

because that *totally* couldn't affect reads based on cat's flip

Here is Mac's case, or at least the first post (of three)

[Long Con]

Joseph clearly started the Cat wagon. He gave a detailed, titled case in two or three defined parts, and quoted them multiple times. I'm shocked that you could ask that question, but I just skipped the last 8 pages, so maybe you did as well.

D0 and an extended D1.

This is torture.

Reporting the first mimdmeld with Mr. R

Mindmeld on lamenting a super-long Day? That's some WTF stuff right there. It's like I say "Man I love tacos" and Michelle is like "total mindmeld there, allow me to make it alignment-indicative".

@Alison Michelle is a villager.

I challenge anyone to disagree with me.

Thus is it declared.

Challenge accepted!

[dyachei]

well... in my opinion these types of reads work when you know the person well and youre noticing small stuff like this

i dont believe youve played with dyachei before, and in my experience i have seen towns use the words they used, its not a scumtell, and while dya could be scum i think applying this read on them will have random accuracy

i ... was trying to say that in the most kind and respectful way, maybe i overdid it and came across as too condescending, not the intent, but, when i see types of reads that wont land well from my experience i will speak up about it since its in my interest to do so!

Sure. The response I got from you and nutella was "dya is just town", so I'll just accept that for now. It was a thing that I noticed that I pointed out, but I do appreciate the response.

Dismissing might not have been the right word for me to use, but it did feel like something in that ballpark. And despite my assertion that word usage is a useful tool, I'll admit that I'm not the best with using the right words in the right era.

Dya has a pretty big wolfrange so I'm not townreading them now. It concerns me how hyperfocused Dya's been on me this game, I dislike how they've spent more time and effort pushing me than on sorting people out or on any of their other reads.

i was trying to get other reads on you to confirm or argue with my current read so i could get a better idea of if it was just me or not

I also know you better than a lot of people here

i have given several town reads

Mac I've talked about
MR I've at least alluded to
I don't think I've mentioned nutella but this is miles away from the wolf games I've seen from her

i like what marmot's doing

[MartinGG99]

Is this game open night or closed night?

We don't know D:

It wasn't mentioned apparently. But quite a few people are requesting it be closed.

[Master Radishes]

Can't promise to be around again before EoD. I'm good with cat going over.

But

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

to keep things interesting.

[Long Con]

i like what marmot's doing

What's he doing?

[DrWilgy]

What was Hyenas claim?

A role that could choose one person from the living to talk to a dead person each night. I thought it was a town role at first because of what it was but someone brought up that there was a role like that that was scum and I wanted to know if Hyena's role was specifically based on that scum role.

This "scumslip" tilts me a little bit. I've tried really hard to communicate clearly this game especially with my PoE status and I swear I did not scumslip and I'm not scum.

Talk to me about this scumslip. What did you do from your perspective and how is this a scum thing?

Mac says I'm caught mafia because he thinks me forgetting that Hyena's exact role was scum in a different game was somehow a scumslip. I'm not even sure why he thinks I scumslipped but he's saying I'm caught mafia.

That seems rather weak for Mac to push so strongly on.

@MacDougall I thought you were a Mafia God?

Does it?

It does, but that was more of an opportunity for you to share your perspective. Now I'm more curious as to why you didn't.

[Master Radishes]

I might just treat the Night as closed even if it's not.

[dyachei]

i like what marmot's doing

What's he doing?

he's questioning in ways that make me think he's actually considering the content and what it means first.

[dyachei]

oh and i think sloonei is village as well

[DrWilgy]

112
0
No votes
Voters: None
Alison
0
No votes
Voters: None
Cat
10
31%
Voters: nutella, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, tutuu, Made, tedxtr, falcon45ca, MacDougall, Timsup2nothin, Dyslexicon, Marmot
DrWilgy
0
No votes
Voters: None
Dyslexicon
0
No votes
Voters: None
falcon45ca
5
16%
Voters: Thunal33, cat, MartinGG99, Justplayingitcool, Master Radishes
Hyena
2
6%
Voters: Sloonei, Kylemii
JackofHearts2005
0
No votes
Voters: None
JustPlayingitcool
0
No votes
Voters: None
Kylemii
0
No votes
Voters: None
Long Con
0
No votes
Voters: None
MacDougall
0
No votes
Voters: None
Made
0
No votes
Voters: None
Marmot
1
3%
Voters: 112
MartinGG99
0
No votes
Voters: None
Master Radishes
0
No votes
Voters: None
Michelle
0
No votes
Voters: None
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
0
No votes
Voters: None
nutella
2
6%
Voters: Syn, Jackofhearts2005
sig
0
No votes
Voters: None
Sloonei
0
No votes
Voters: None
Syn
0
No votes
Voters: None
Thunal33
4
13%
Voters: DrWilgy, dyachei, TonyStarkPrime, Michelle
Timsup2nothin
0
No votes
Voters: None
TonyStarkPrime
0
No votes
Voters: None
TurnipHead
1
3%
Voters: Hyena
tutuu
0
No votes
Voters: None
No vote
1
3%
Voters: Alison
No elimination
1
3%
Voters: Long Con
Tom Brady (host/non)
5
16%
Voters: juliets, Epignosis, c4e5g3d5, JaggedJimmyJay, dunya

[DrWilgy]

oh and i think sloonei is village as well

Why is this?

[DrWilgy]

So I return to Cat still being bork'd

A falcon rally happened and then there's Thunal slightly behind.

Voting Thunal. Lets see what happens.

[Long Con]

I don't really suspect falcon... so [VOTE: falcon] aubergine is probably a safe bet.

[Long Con]

So I return to Cat still being bork'd

A falcon rally happened and then there's Thunal slightly behind.

Voting Thunal. Lets see what happens.

I was going to do that vote before I read this post... so don't count my vote as reactionary to yours, or you will get false results.

[Master Radishes]

I don't really suspect falcon... so [VOTE: falcon] aubergine is probably a safe bet.

I can tell you've played Mafia before.

[Long Con]

I don't really suspect falcon... so [VOTE: falcon] aubergine is probably a safe bet.

I can tell you've played Mafia before.

Enough that I'm starting to see a pattern. So I'm gonna Costanza this one.

[Marmot]

I don't really suspect falcon... so [VOTE: falcon] aubergine is probably a safe bet.

After Nanook is a Bastard this is how I should play the game

[DrWilgy]

So I return to Cat still being bork'd

A falcon rally happened and then there's Thunal slightly behind.

Voting Thunal. Lets see what happens.

I was going to do that vote before I read this post... so don't count my vote as reactionary to yours, or you will get false results.

Thank you LC. You had scum read me earlier and I had scum read you as well. How are you feeling about that now?

[DrWilgy]

Are we going to get to page 100 before n1?

sweet.

[Thunal33]

Is this game open night or closed night?

We don't know D:

It wasn't mentioned apparently. But quite a few people are requesting it be closed.

Okay. I'll give a legacy now then incase I end up vigged tonight.

[Long Con]

So I return to Cat still being bork'd

A falcon rally happened and then there's Thunal slightly behind.

Voting Thunal. Lets see what happens.

I was going to do that vote before I read this post... so don't count my vote as reactionary to yours, or you will get false results.

Thank you LC. You had scum read me earlier and I had scum read you as well. How are you feeling about that now?

Still get suspicious vibes from a number of your posts. I don't feel good at all about you scum-reading me. Makes me feel OMGUSsy, and no one likes that.

I just had a good hand in winning the 'Nanook Is A Bastard' game... but me voting for the bad guys correctly in the end was totally based on their voting actions in a few-players game, where specific actions either made sense as wolfy (Chard placing a vote early and leaving for the rest of the day, and what it meant to the game), or seeing the towniness more in one player than another (Speedchuck's EOD on the Chard yeet, and his talk afterward).

I think my general behavioural suspicions are almost always wrong.

[Long Con]

And I am better in the later game than the early. Right now I feel like I'm in a crowd where everyone is talking at once and they all sound the same.

[dyachei]

oh and i think sloonei is village as well

Why is this?

I don;'t really know. he's kind of hitting the same notes as he did in finale for me

[MartinGG99]

how come no one is explaining to me why we're killing cat

I would really appreciate it if, for example,

someone told me who or what started the Cat wagon

because that *totally* couldn't affect reads based on cat's flip

Here is Mac's case, or at least the first post (of three)

Reading/lightly skimming the first two

I think that's a satisfactory case and I don't see much or any of a counter argument to it unless we start conjecturing some things of what Cat must've been thinking but never said in a towny light.

I'm not sold on Made though; I've seen (and quite frankly experienced) towns being portrayed as partners to someone as the sole explicit reason of being scum and then getting mischopped for it.

[nutella]

yoooo I did a really tricky thing in excel for work and it worked and i feel so satisfied rn i am spreadsheet wizard

[MartinGG99]

Voting Thunal. Lets see what happens.

what happens is that martin gets mad at people again for voting thunal even though he's done that before (to apparently no effect) and so he gets condemned to an asylum for meeting the definition of insanity.

[Marmot]

Cat's ISO looks meh. Their earlier posts don't look great, particularly the one where Sloonei asked for their reads. Their response to the case from Mac (and others) looked better. But they didn't really leave much of a legacy aside from Sloonei grilling them for reads.

I'm also happy voting falcon.


I will not be voting for Thunal though. The overtly formal nature of their approach being a sign of scum is a read I disagree with.

[Marmot]

yoooo I did a really tricky thing in excel for work and it worked and i feel so satisfied rn i am spreadsheet wizard

I've been having a lot of fun with excel (Google Sheets) lately tooo

[nutella]

well... in my opinion these types of reads work when you know the person well and youre noticing small stuff like this

i dont believe youve played with dyachei before, and in my experience i have seen towns use the words they used, its not a scumtell, and while dya could be scum i think applying this read on them will have random accuracy

i ... was trying to say that in the most kind and respectful way, maybe i overdid it and came across as too condescending, not the intent, but, when i see types of reads that wont land well from my experience i will speak up about it since its in my interest to do so!

Sure. The response I got from you and nutella was "dya is just town", so I'll just accept that for now. It was a thing that I noticed that I pointed out, but I do appreciate the response.

Dismissing might not have been the right word for me to use, but it did feel like something in that ballpark. And despite my assertion that word usage is a useful tool, I'll admit that I'm not the best with using the right words in the right era.

Dya has a pretty big wolfrange so I'm not townreading them now. It concerns me how hyperfocused Dya's been on me this game, I dislike how they've spent more time and effort pushing me than on sorting people out or on any of their other reads.

i can see this yeah

[Marmot]

how come no one is explaining to me why we're killing cat

I would really appreciate it if, for example,

someone told me who or what started the Cat wagon

because that *totally* couldn't affect reads based on cat's flip

Here is Mac's case, or at least the first post (of three)

Reading/lightly skimming the first two

I think that's a satisfactory case and I don't see much or any of a counter argument to it unless we start conjecturing some things of what Cat must've been thinking but never said in a towny light.

I'm not sold on Made though; I've seen (and quite frankly experienced) towns being portrayed as partners to someone as the sole explicit reason of being scum and then getting mischopped for it.

Actually, where is Made?

[MartinGG99]

And I am better in the later game than the early. Right now I feel like I'm in a crowd where everyone is talking at once and they all sound the same.

LC is just plausibly town

I'm calling it

[nutella]

yoooo I did a really tricky thing in excel for work and it worked and i feel so satisfied rn i am spreadsheet wizard

I've been having a lot of fun with excel (Google Sheets) lately tooo

i use both tbh

[dyachei]

how come no one is explaining to me why we're killing cat

I would really appreciate it if, for example,

someone told me who or what started the Cat wagon

because that *totally* couldn't affect reads based on cat's flip

Here is Mac's case, or at least the first post (of three)

Reading/lightly skimming the first two

I think that's a satisfactory case and I don't see much or any of a counter argument to it unless we start conjecturing some things of what Cat must've been thinking but never said in a towny light.

I'm not sold on Made though; I've seen (and quite frankly experienced) towns being portrayed as partners to someone as the sole explicit reason of being scum and then getting mischopped for it.

Actually, where is Made?

i was just wondering this