Game of Champions 2020 [ENDGAME]

[TonyStarkPrime]

vote: nanook ??

[Jackofhearts2005]

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

sheeping radish

Wat? Was your case “Jack is too logical to be a townie” not good enough?

You know Radishes is coming off a t/t game where he suspected me the whole time, right?

I read you wrong where you subbed in, weren't very active for awhile, and so never cleared yourself? Yeah. I also never pushed particularly hard to chop you in the end.

I guess that matches this game pretty well.

[Michelle]

vote: nanook ??

I feel like Nanook's wagon doesn't get traction and idk why

[Master Radishes]

Eh Radishes, why is JPIC town?

Because he is. Everything he does bleeds green. He's active, focused, having fun, solving on his own, following others when he likes their ideas, mostly serious and focused but with moments of levity when it strikes his fancy, not afraid to respond to anything from anyone that catches his attention, etc etc etc.

He is my myc from SF2 or Dizzy from finale or KZA from Spiderverse - I vibe with him so hard my teeth shake. He's never flipping scum and if he did I'd never trust again.

myc was still a wolf modbot lied

Lol. I'm baffled you ever thought this. I had him pegged town from the get go and never let go.

Spoiler: show

He should've been voted into Finale tbh. I couldn't believe he wasn't.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I guess.. the progression from cat to marmot on day 1 feels pretty scummy from 112 but it feels like there's just a general lack of agenda there

[Jackofhearts2005]

Yeah MYC was robbed but when town plays really well, it’s hard to pick who advances.

[Master Radishes]

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

sheeping radish

Wat? Was your case “Jack is too logical to be a townie” not good enough?

You know Radishes is coming off a t/t game where he suspected me the whole time, right?

I read you wrong where you subbed in, weren't very active for awhile, and so never cleared yourself? Yeah. I also never pushed particularly hard to chop you in the end.

I guess that matches this game pretty well.

So far, yeah.

I'm fine with chopping you because you've done little that I'd call townie and a few things I'd call scummy. But I have a fairly large PoE still and may let you live for now.

[TonyStarkPrime]

wilgy's voting for sloonei. t/t confirmed?

[Jackofhearts2005]

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

sheeping radish

Wat? Was your case “Jack is too logical to be a townie” not good enough?

You know Radishes is coming off a t/t game where he suspected me the whole time, right?

I read you wrong where you subbed in, weren't very active for awhile, and so never cleared yourself? Yeah. I also never pushed particularly hard to chop you in the end.

I guess that matches this game pretty well.

So far, yeah.

I'm fine with chopping you because you've done little that I'd call townie and a few things I'd call scummy. But I have a fairly large PoE still and may let you live for now.

Orange is my home and I’ll always come out on top so don’t sweat it.

[Master Radishes]

Yeah MYC was robbed but when town plays really well, it’s hard to pick who advances.

Don't get me wrong, I don't know who I could possibly have dropped from the 5 who did make it (4 of us are in this game, I just noticed!).

[TonyStarkPrime]

I have to decide what I think about the insom reverse wolf slip from marmot

[Michelle]

Yeah MYC was robbed but when town plays really well, it’s hard to pick who advances.

Don't get me wrong, I don't know who I could possibly have dropped from the 5 who did make it (4 of us are in this game, I just noticed!).

[Master Radishes]

I guess.. the progression from cat to marmot on day 1 feels pretty scummy from 112 but it feels like there's just a general lack of agenda there

My problem with 112 is there's a lack of anything from her.

Town 112, even when not super active, is more invested than this. Slanky!villa!112 still takes time to pop in to the thread, fire a few shots from the hip, respond to concerns about her slot directed at her, and so on. 112 in this game has barely posted and half of what she posts are 'you guys are bad/this is bad' sort of responses.

[nutella]

I have to decide what I think about the insom reverse wolf slip from marmot

que

[Jackofhearts2005]

Legit, maybe town wins should get an extra advancement slot. Someone should pitch that to the jury.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I can’t wait for jury chat tbh.

[tutuu]

for the record i townread all wagons from day 1 fml

i can give reasons for why everyone could be town

112 solved so much and did so much good stuff d1

wilgy had a towny "maybe u guys could listen to me for once" post d1

falcon ... i thought had towny attitude but im not good at making reads like this maybe, i was wrong on cat like this

jack had some towny "i havent read the game or the rules of the mechanics and i dont care" posts

hollowkat ... i guess is scumsiding so aggressively that he might be town? but more like i thought thunal was towny

tony idk how to read tony. he feels cool

dizzy i think is correct that he has never slanked as wolf before and i liked his posts

martin ... if wolf went for an odd tactic of constantly repeating "tutuu and thunal good" during d2 and not defending hismelf and he was ready to accept death

i would be way harder to try to come up with reasons to call anyone scum

everyone is pretty towny imo

[Jackofhearts2005]

I lost my place.

[Michelle]

I am tired and here with low brain power, i think we have 2 and half hours until Eod and i will try to put the phone to ring.

[Master Radishes]

vote: nanook ??

I feel like Nanook's wagon doesn't get traction and idk why

He's built such a reputation of 'I don't give a fuck' town play that no one feels comfortable ever calling him 'scummy'.

My only hesitation now is that I've wolfed with Nanook before, and when his teammates went down he did step up and get more engaged in the game, whereas here, if he's scum, he's watched two teammates go down and he's still just not really paying attention. So maybe he's just town? But I'd still be happy to flip him and find out.

[Master Radishes]

I'm gonna give Tetris one more go to try and improve upon my pitiful score.

[Michelle]

I would not read Dizzy based on effort, but if he has agenda he is scum ig

[tutuu]

the marmot cfd was pretty out of the blue and it worked

we have fool proof evidence that flash wagons are incredibly pro-town and probably the best strategy for town to employ much to the demise to a canadian hater girl somewhere out there in the cold

town leaders, do ur magic, i know u can

[Michelle]

I'm gonna give Tetris one more go to try and improve upon my pitiful score.

Awww.. i had once an ability to play chess. Unfortunately i didn't play but i have since a lichess account named mafia player

[hollowkatt]

HK wanting to chop two of my top towns is a huge red flag for me

Why? Are your townreads supported by actual facts that you have laid out in front of HK?

I want to shoot Made. Nutella is mad at me because she TRs Made. I tell her to prove her case, and she points out that I town read her as if that means I have to just assume she's right. That's kinda what you are doing here. Just because you town read them doesn't make them lock towns above suspicion for other people.

That said.

@hollowkatt

The Marmot flip revealed that he had this weird Tetris based power. The Sloonei silencing shows that the wolves do have some way to use the powers of their dead. Radish claims to have been Tetris challenged. This I think is clearing, at least for now, so chop an onion or something instead of the Radish.

If you're a wolf and Radish is town you don't say this. you let me stay there b/c it looks meh and gets me negative attention from other townies making me a viable push later.
If you're a wolf and Radish is also a wolf you also don't say this, you let me vanity wagon b/c I don't have the thread presence and force of will to get people to follow me.

Therefore, you are not a wolf.

Well that was easy, Tim isn't a wolf guys, solved that for you.

If you're town and you think Radish is a wolf you also don't say that (which you did, because you don't)

You also don't say that if either 112 or TSP is a wolf with you because I've already indicated I think you're town and I think nutella is town, and those two players are the two people you two are voting for, so adding to those wagons instead of guiding me towards a mischop would be your goal here. So again, you're not a wolf with either of those two should they flip.

Finally, I like the TSP wagon composition more than the 112
[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

calvin is funny yeah

[Master Radishes]

Nope.

[hollowkatt]

HK wanting to chop two of my top towns is a huge red flag for me

I assume radish and tutuu? Nobody has been able to explain to me why/how tutuu has to be town here, all I'm getting is "that's just tutuu" which is probably fine for the people who are vv familiar with them. For people who aren't (read me) that's not enough. Basically you're saying "HK, accept on faith that tutuu is town" and I'm saying "no"

Tutuu is town.

*Marmot's iso spews her likely clear. The way he interacts with her sounds like he's talking to someone not his teammate. The way he handles her slot is one where he's friendly and chatty but also quietly keeping her in the PoE. He talks with her a lot on D1, in fact, whereas he largely ignores Cat, his only other confirmed teammate.

*Tutuu's handling of Marmot at EoD2 could be WIFOMy scummate, but also is just probably town. Like she made clear she felt Marmot was town but didn't try to save him exactly. She voted him, then recanted, but never tried to gain cred nor fight back. She let it happen, whilst calmly stating she didn't agree.

*Cat's iso doesn't implicate tutuu either. I don't remember why I think that, though.

*Tutuu's emotional journey this game is traceable and feels genuine. She started off super pumped. Then when she started getting suspicion she felt was unwarranted she became frustated. She didn't stop trying to engage with people about their concerns, but was visibly annoyed that she was being scumread despite all her hard work on D1. And in fact when I backed off she kept trying to draw me back in to address what she perceived to be terribad reasons from me. She then kept playing but stopped trying so hard. Since the townread players have started to also townread her again, she's warming up again. This just all feels really organic and genuine.


Each thing mentioned is circumstantial. But that's a lot of circumstantial reasons to think someone is 'probably just town'.

having this all laid out I can see how people are getting to town tutuu much easier and while I may not agree with it, I can at least wrap my head around that, and it increases my trust level.
I still don't particularly LIKE it, but it's understandable how you get there.

[Michelle]

HK since then the wagon composition is important when you make a read?

[hollowkatt]

Ok, why though?
Like I'm thinking back to the spec chat game where I did some crafty setup for a future chop on town as wolf before I went over, townies bought it, and we went on to win the game. Hard defense of someone town as wolf is something that should be in every wolves repertoire, yeah? Especially because it leads into situations like this.
And, in my experience, when done correctly it's generally a wolf that brings it back up after a day or two so that they can look solving while susing town and not getting any heat back from it.

'I did this thing one time and therefore Radishes is mafia.'

Makes sense.

Wow, that's reductive and unhelpful! Good job

Your original attempt to explain why I might be a wolf was reductive and unhelpful. I responded in kind.

If you're town and you want to avoid getting mischopped, you need to do more, because you're deep in the PoE.

I'm literally always deep in the POE, or I'm dead. Those are the only two ways things go with me.
The question you should be asking is, am I purposefully misdirecting things or am I just muddling through.

[Master Radishes]

the marmot cfd was pretty out of the blue and it worked

we have fool proof evidence that flash wagons are incredibly pro-town and probably the best strategy for town to employ much to the demise to a canadian hater girl somewhere out there in the cold

town leaders, do ur magic, i know u can

This might be...watchmacallit...survivor bias? Dunno if that's the right one.

But anyway, flash wagons work for me more often than they don't. People who say they are anti-town (*cough*Alison) simply don't wield the weapon of the flash wagon correctly.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Legit, maybe town wins should get an extra advancement slot. Someone should pitch that to the jury.

if wolves win the town who spent the most time in ohio should advance

[Master Radishes]

Ok, why though?
Like I'm thinking back to the spec chat game where I did some crafty setup for a future chop on town as wolf before I went over, townies bought it, and we went on to win the game. Hard defense of someone town as wolf is something that should be in every wolves repertoire, yeah? Especially because it leads into situations like this.
And, in my experience, when done correctly it's generally a wolf that brings it back up after a day or two so that they can look solving while susing town and not getting any heat back from it.

'I did this thing one time and therefore Radishes is mafia.'

Makes sense.

Wow, that's reductive and unhelpful! Good job

Your original attempt to explain why I might be a wolf was reductive and unhelpful. I responded in kind.

If you're town and you want to avoid getting mischopped, you need to do more, because you're deep in the PoE.

I'm literally always deep in the POE, or I'm dead. Those are the only two ways things go with me.
The question you should be asking is, am I purposefully misdirecting things or am I just muddling through.

Maybe. You were pretty clear in Syn's game, right up until I began to tinfoil your emotional breakdown right before you were NKed.

I prefer to draw my own conclusions each game without overreliance on meta, personally. Meta changes. It's a baseline, not more.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Nope.

Try to not let the shapes get to the top.

[Master Radishes]

I guess I just proved your point in referencing Syn's game actually. Lel.

[Master Radishes]

Nope.

Try to not let the shapes get to the top.

Oh. I thought we were building pretty towers.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Also I've misunderstood the phrase exception that proves the rule for like forever

[hollowkatt]

Not against a Tim counterwagon tbh

I'm not going to argue against it like I did previously, but I do have to say that Tim is easy to misread. He often says things that sound scummy on the surface, or explores a weird and unlikely theory, or builds narratives that don't exist, etc - as town. If anything I think he's likely more reasonable as a wolf, albeit still manipulative rather than passive.

I dunno. I wouldn't stop a Tim wagon now, but I think there are better options.

Wolf Tim is less likely to drive things unless he thinks it's a sure thing. Wolf Tim likes to be the navigator, not the driver. Town Tim finds things he thinks are suspicious, hammers on them for a while, and then moves on to other people.
He is a naturally wolfy player and that does need to be taken into account when trying to read him.

My reasoning for town reading him is that he's not doing things directed towards me that I would expect him to if he were wolfing, especially with regards to the current wagons, unless like specifically he is partnered with nutella which I think is never a thing.
For me, the post telling me to get off of you and find someone else to chop is like super town indicative. your mileage may vary.

[tutuu]

the marmot cfd was pretty out of the blue and it worked

we have fool proof evidence that flash wagons are incredibly pro-town and probably the best strategy for town to employ much to the demise to a canadian hater girl somewhere out there in the cold

town leaders, do ur magic, i know u can

This might be...watchmacallit...survivor bias? Dunno if that's the right one.

But anyway, flash wagons work for me more often than they don't. People who say they are anti-town (*cough*Alison) simply don't wield the weapon of the flash wagon correctly.

survivor bias is when some of your ww2 planes return home riddled with bullets and u see that they all have bullet holes only in specific areas so the bias is to think that u should fortify those areas that have the holes when in reality the planes who didnt return are the ones who had bullets in the other parts coz they were critical so in reality u should fortify the places on your plane that come back without a scratch on them

i dont know if this translates to flash wagons but its a really cool thing

[Timsup2nothin]

the marmot cfd was pretty out of the blue and it worked

we have fool proof evidence that flash wagons are incredibly pro-town and probably the best strategy for town to employ much to the demise to a canadian hater girl somewhere out there in the cold

town leaders, do ur magic, i know u can

This might be...watchmacallit...survivor bias? Dunno if that's the right one.

But anyway, flash wagons work for me more often than they don't. People who say they are anti-town (*cough*Alison) simply don't wield the weapon of the flash wagon correctly.

survivor bias is when some of your ww2 planes return home riddled with bullets and u see that they all have bullet holes only in specific areas so the bias is to think that u should fortify those areas that have the holes when in reality the planes who didnt return are the ones who had bullets in the other parts coz they were critical so in reality u should fortify the places on your plane that come back without a scratch on them

i dont know if this translates to flash wagons but its a really cool thing

I don't even care if she is a wolf. For this post alone we are not killing Tutuu. Fite me.

[hollowkatt]

Eh Radishes, why is JPIC town?

Because he is. Everything he does bleeds green. He's active, focused, having fun, solving on his own, following others when he likes their ideas, mostly serious and focused but with moments of levity when it strikes his fancy, not afraid to respond to anything from anyone that catches his attention, etc etc etc.

He is my myc from SF2 or Dizzy from finale or KZA from Spiderverse - I vibe with him so hard my teeth shake. He's never flipping scum and if he did I'd never trust again.

okay then

[112]

[VOTE: nanook] aubergine

[tutuu]

u cute timmy ^_^

[Justplayingitcool]

im just gonna sheep my two top townies

[VOTE: Jack] aubergine

[hollowkatt]

Eh Radishes, why is JPIC town?

Because he is. Everything he does bleeds green. He's active, focused, having fun, solving on his own, following others when he likes their ideas, mostly serious and focused but with moments of levity when it strikes his fancy, not afraid to respond to anything from anyone that catches his attention, etc etc etc.

He is my myc from SF2 or Dizzy from finale or KZA from Spiderverse - I vibe with him so hard my teeth shake. He's never flipping scum and if he did I'd never trust again.

myc was still a wolf modbot lied

pretty sure I was the wolfiest townie that game, not myc

[Kylemii]

Tim is probably just town still

[hollowkatt]

Yeah MYC was robbed but when town plays really well, it’s hard to pick who advances.

Don't get me wrong, I don't know who I could possibly have dropped from the 5 who did make it (4 of us are in this game, I just noticed!).

voting that game was one of the hardest mafia related things i've had to do. So many vv strong players. Glad to have been involved.

[Kylemii]

Just requesting a headcount, who wants made to get nightyeeted tonight, Vs. who thinks someone else should be eliminated from the PoE via nightyeet, and if so who please. Thanks, love you.

[Kylemii]

who and also why* please

[Kylemii]

please include in the "why" why it's also better to nightyeet them than to dayyeet them

[Kylemii]

just for hypothetical purposes