Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [AMERICA RISES]

[staypositivefriend]

i townlean esooa

can you explain this a bit more

my understanding is that your scum game is fairly rigid and focused on asserting specific agendas/narratives within the thread - i haven't felt at all like you've been trying to reinforce any specific narratives with your approach in this game. you made a post defending me and then immediately made a post pointing out something about me that you find suspicious. you came into the game w/a slightly aggressive push on sloonei, and then your tone toward him subtly softened after you had an exchange. you've been pushy about getting people to acknowledge your long con read, but in a way that feels more like it stems from the frustration of being unheard and not because you want long con to perceived in a specific way

it just feels agenda-free, and i usually take that as a good sign for you. this post made me re-skim your iso, and i will say that viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=736533#p736533 made me a little nervous lol - made me wonder if that post was a roundabout way of trying to pocket me, by playing up your concern about me

can I ask what differences between Sloonei and myself causes the difference in confidence between a town lean and a town read?

i feel that i have a stronger baseline for how sloonei approaches the game as wolf vs town (since i played in 2 champs games with him and then wolfed in one game with him), whereas my read on you is partially predicated on meta that is mainly guesswork

what did you use to form the basis of that guesswork?

meta/personality~

[staypositivefriend]

Here's a good experiment:
@staypositivefriend, how confident do you think I am in my thoughts on you?

i don't quantify reads like that. maybe that's part of the problem

i think that you believe what you're saying, but i'm not going to give you a percentage

[staypositivefriend]

Here's a good experiment:
@staypositivefriend, how confident do you think I am in my thoughts on you?

i don't quantify reads like that. maybe that's part of the problem

i think that you believe what you're saying, but i'm not going to give you a percentage

oh actually, i misread your question

i think there's a solid chance that you perceived something as a minor inconsistency, and you're poking and prodding at it to see how i react. you're probably overstating your confidence, but the concern that prompted you to pressure me in the first place is probably real

[Sloonei]

i townlean esooa

can you explain this a bit more

my understanding is that your scum game is fairly rigid and focused on asserting specific agendas/narratives within the thread - i haven't felt at all like you've been trying to reinforce any specific narratives with your approach in this game. you made a post defending me and then immediately made a post pointing out something about me that you find suspicious. you came into the game w/a slightly aggressive push on sloonei, and then your tone toward him subtly softened after you had an exchange. you've been pushy about getting people to acknowledge your long con read, but in a way that feels more like it stems from the frustration of being unheard and not because you want long con to perceived in a specific way

it just feels agenda-free, and i usually take that as a good sign for you. this post made me re-skim your iso, and i will say that viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=736533#p736533 made me a little nervous lol - made me wonder if that post was a roundabout way of trying to pocket me, by playing up your concern about me

can I ask what differences between Sloonei and myself causes the difference in confidence between a town lean and a town read?

i feel that i have a stronger baseline for how sloonei approaches the game as wolf vs town (since i played in 2 champs games with him and then wolfed in one game with him), whereas my read on you is partially predicated on meta that is mainly guesswork

What have I done this game that suggests I am more in line with my town self than my mafia self?

[Dom]

i townlean esooa

What about Dom?

he might just be town too

i think most of the issue i take with dom stems from a difference in mindset and playstyle moreso than it does alignment

i find his style of questioning confusing/incredibly unclear - but not necessarily wolfy. i think i'm pretty decent at telling when pushes on me are happening in bad faith or good faith, and i don't get the sense that dom's line of questioning is stemming from bad faith - i can practically hear him cackling behind his keyboard as he types the "gotchas", and i can believe that he believes what he's saying even if it's difficult for me to wrap my head around

Again, if your goal is mutual understanding-- how is this helping you get there?

voicing your concerns about someone is part of reaching a mutual understanding

you posted something i found scummy. i explained why i found it scummy. you responded to my explanation. since that point, we've been going in circles and communicating in an ineffective way that has helped neither of us understand each other before

i would expand on this more, but i fundamentally do not understand your point. it feels like we're speaking two different languages

My point is clear.
You threw spaghetti at the wall. It did not stick. You accused me of being bad as a response to me prodding you.
You then threw more spaghetti at the wall. It still did not stick. You said I misunderstood a point and doubled down. I did not.
Your pasta isn't ready. Your stove is not on. There is no heat here.
I find both of these actions suspect; especially given that you went out of your way to say that your goal was understanding.

Is my point unclear or are you afraid of it?

[Sloonei]

I want to town read spf. She’s one of my favorite people in the world to go crazy town banana pants with. But I’m struggling to get there so far.

[Esooa]

I'm pretty happy rn cause sloonei is a really good town and I feel like we've had a very similar approach to this game

[Dom]

I am heading to bed.
goodnight.

[staypositivefriend]

i townlean esooa

What about Dom?

he might just be town too

i think most of the issue i take with dom stems from a difference in mindset and playstyle moreso than it does alignment

i find his style of questioning confusing/incredibly unclear - but not necessarily wolfy. i think i'm pretty decent at telling when pushes on me are happening in bad faith or good faith, and i don't get the sense that dom's line of questioning is stemming from bad faith - i can practically hear him cackling behind his keyboard as he types the "gotchas", and i can believe that he believes what he's saying even if it's difficult for me to wrap my head around

Again, if your goal is mutual understanding-- how is this helping you get there?

voicing your concerns about someone is part of reaching a mutual understanding

you posted something i found scummy. i explained why i found it scummy. you responded to my explanation. since that point, we've been going in circles and communicating in an ineffective way that has helped neither of us understand each other before

i would expand on this more, but i fundamentally do not understand your point. it feels like we're speaking two different languages

My point is clear.
You threw spaghetti at the wall. It did not stick. You accused me of being bad as a response to me prodding you.
You then threw more spaghetti at the wall. It still did not stick. You said I misunderstood a point and doubled down. I did not.
Your pasta isn't ready. Your stove is not on. There is no heat here.
I find both of these actions suspect; especially given that you went out of your way to say that your goal was understanding.

Is my point unclear or are you afraid of it?

so, your point boils down to:

"SPF pressured Dom for a post she found scummy, and then she backed off when Dom answered her concerns"

what you call throwing spaghetti at a wall is what i call scumhunting. i do want to understand you, but that does NOT mean that i'm not going to call out posts that i find suspicious - especially since that's part of how you reach an understanding with people in the first place!

above all else, i really do feel like we're approaching this exchange from radically different mindsets. me getting pinged by one of your posts and essentially going: "you wolfin, bro?", and then backing off when you responded to me is just how mafia .......works. you pressure people and see it if sticks, and then you move somewhere else if it doesn't stick

[staypositivefriend]

if there's someone who is willing to translate dom's points for me, i would genuinely appreciate it

and i dont mean that as an insult to dom - im sure that they are a talented and strong player, i just feel that our mindsets are so different that there's some kind of inherent conflict happening in our communication

[Esooa]

Hey Dom!
Your signature is too far!
Make it skinny!

Fat*

I think ChopChop coming into thread only to post this then leave was a bad look

[staypositivefriend]

i townlean esooa

can you explain this a bit more

my understanding is that your scum game is fairly rigid and focused on asserting specific agendas/narratives within the thread - i haven't felt at all like you've been trying to reinforce any specific narratives with your approach in this game. you made a post defending me and then immediately made a post pointing out something about me that you find suspicious. you came into the game w/a slightly aggressive push on sloonei, and then your tone toward him subtly softened after you had an exchange. you've been pushy about getting people to acknowledge your long con read, but in a way that feels more like it stems from the frustration of being unheard and not because you want long con to perceived in a specific way

it just feels agenda-free, and i usually take that as a good sign for you. this post made me re-skim your iso, and i will say that viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=736533#p736533 made me a little nervous lol - made me wonder if that post was a roundabout way of trying to pocket me, by playing up your concern about me

can I ask what differences between Sloonei and myself causes the difference in confidence between a town lean and a town read?

i feel that i have a stronger baseline for how sloonei approaches the game as wolf vs town (since i played in 2 champs games with him and then wolfed in one game with him), whereas my read on you is partially predicated on meta that is mainly guesswork

What have I done this game that suggests I am more in line with my town self than my mafia self?

when we played together in champs, i felt like i could understand your thought process incredibly well, and your questions always had a level of nuance/high depth of thought behind them that were internally consistent and easy to track

when i wolfed with you in grasslands, your thought process was still good, but it lacked a certain level of fluidity/intensity/nuance that i tend to associate with your town game. there were some moments in grasslands where your questions were more oblique and difficult to track from point A to point B

so, coming into this game, i was mostly looking to feel that sense of fluidity/nuance to your thought process. the way that your questioning toward me subtly shifted and changed in focus as we dialogued reminded me pretty strongly of the town!sloonei that i saw in champs. when i pair that with the fact that your reads have aligned fairly heavily with mine, i think it's more likely that you're town than not

of course, my meta on grasslands is flawed in the sense that i knew that you were scum, and it was easier for me to see the contradictions in your game, but it's still part of the foundation i'm using for reading you in general

[staypositivefriend]

I want to town read spf. She’s one of my favorite people in the world to go crazy town banana pants with. But I’m struggling to get there so far.

you'll get there. this game has been a little rough so far, but i'll bounce back

[TonyStarkPrime]

i townlean esooa

can you explain this a bit more

my understanding is that your scum game is fairly rigid and focused on asserting specific agendas/narratives within the thread - i haven't felt at all like you've been trying to reinforce any specific narratives with your approach in this game. you made a post defending me and then immediately made a post pointing out something about me that you find suspicious. you came into the game w/a slightly aggressive push on sloonei, and then your tone toward him subtly softened after you had an exchange. you've been pushy about getting people to acknowledge your long con read, but in a way that feels more like it stems from the frustration of being unheard and not because you want long con to perceived in a specific way

it just feels agenda-free, and i usually take that as a good sign for you. this post made me re-skim your iso, and i will say that viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=736533#p736533 made me a little nervous lol - made me wonder if that post was a roundabout way of trying to pocket me, by playing up your concern about me

I'm noting this in my iso for if I read back. Do other people who know Esooa think this is accurate?

[TonyStarkPrime]

k I'm locking sloonei as town for fairly obvious reasons

[TonyStarkPrime]

Sloonei is a good wolf but there's a difference that has already made itself clear

[Alison]

[VOTE: c4e5g3d5] aubergine

Poison & Long Con are mafia as well.
TSP is a maybe

uh oh

my reads align with Urist

something is wrong

[TonyStarkPrime]

tempted to write alison in as town for really bad reasons

[staypositivefriend]

[VOTE: c4e5g3d5] aubergine

Poison & Long Con are mafia as well.
TSP is a maybe

uh oh

my reads align with Urist

something is wrong

i wanna hear more

why do u find foresight scummy

[Alison]

[VOTE: c4e5g3d5] aubergine

Poison & Long Con are mafia as well.
TSP is a maybe

uh oh

my reads align with Urist

something is wrong

i wanna hear more

why do u find foresight scummy

trying so hard to appear townie that it becomes LAMIST - tone feels forced and artificial

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think that's standard new player on the block stuff tbh. I'm not reading much into it. Though, I remember when you did it in SI and some people were like "alison lock town" so idk

[staypositivefriend]

[VOTE: c4e5g3d5] aubergine

Poison & Long Con are mafia as well.
TSP is a maybe

uh oh

my reads align with Urist

something is wrong

i wanna hear more

why do u find foresight scummy

trying so hard to appear townie that it becomes LAMIST - tone feels forced and artificial

interesting. i just skimmed through his ISO again and the only thing that looked particularly LAMIST to me was his townread on esooa. the rest of his game does definitely feel forceful, but in a way that i perceive as more likely to be coming from a stressed out town than a scum trying to be LAMIST-y

what townreads do u have

[TonyStarkPrime]

@Jackofhearts2005 game started

[Alison]

I think that's standard new player on the block stuff tbh. I'm not reading much into it. Though, I remember when you did it in SI and some people were like "alison lock town" so idk

given my alignment in that particular game it doesn't really change my read on foresight

[Esooa]

tsp town lean

[Alison]

and my LAMIST stuff in SI was deliberately intended to make people read me as town so yeah

I've caught up to the start of page 6 and currently have a townread on sloonei (he's tryharding and I think it's sincere which is >rand town for him), long con (his post about "questioning my alignment or questioning my coolness?" was chill when I think scum LC that gets suspected early tends to be more tense and wired up) and esooa (paranoia about sloonei seemed real enough and interactions with long con seemed like she was resisting an urge to tunnel but trying to hold herself in check because she doesn't want to screw up the game)

they're reasonably thin townreads but enough for page 6

[Alison]

tsp town lean

have not seen anything yet that makes me retract my scumread of him early because he was jumping all over the place without much thoughtfulness in the way he does when he's scum trying to mimic his twitchy town style (see mysterious universe)

[Alison]

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

oh shit mac is mafia

[Esooa]

tsp town lean

have not seen anything yet that makes me retract my scumread of him early because he was jumping all over the place without much thoughtfulness in the way he does when he's scum trying to mimic his twitchy town style (see mysterious universe)

didn't really read day zero posts but I'll iso him tomorrow and see

[TonyStarkPrime]

tsp town lean

have not seen anything yet that makes me retract my scumread of him early because he was jumping all over the place without much thoughtfulness in the way he does when he's scum trying to mimic his twitchy town style (see mysterious universe)

alison townread removed

[Alison]

let's be honest who here understands this game

The game of Mafia is a game with an uninformed majority known as the town and an informed minority known as the mafia. The players may collectively choose one player to eliminate by vote every game cycle, and the mafia may collectively do the same privately. Each faction's objective is to eliminate or insure the elimination of the other.

am I jumping the shark if I said this looks like an attempt to pocket sloonei

[Alison]

tsp town lean

have not seen anything yet that makes me retract my scumread of him early because he was jumping all over the place without much thoughtfulness in the way he does when he's scum trying to mimic his twitchy town style (see mysterious universe)

alison townread removed

why

[Alison]

[VOTE: Esooa] aubergine

hello epi please talk to me about this post, it's not like you to drop a naked vote and run, you are usually more forceful in your pushes as town

[TonyStarkPrime]

tsp town lean

have not seen anything yet that makes me retract my scumread of him early because he was jumping all over the place without much thoughtfulness in the way he does when he's scum trying to mimic his twitchy town style (see mysterious universe)

alison townread removed

why

I don't think this is a good read and alison is supposed to make good reads. And OMGUS and all that.

[Alison]

need to do stuff for a few minutes so a quick response then will answer more later

I meant I treat my current read on you as not very serious and likely to change pending what you do later

Noted.

The reason I asked is that you seemed to be assigning more weight to my Long Con and spf reads than I am myself. I believe in the reads I have expressed in them so far, but I do not consider either of them to be even remotely close to solid. They are my initial impressions on the game.

There is not much more to the LC read than what I have said: I thought his attitude when he joked about being masons with me looked like a happy and carefree LC. The whole "claiming masons is easy" thing is not a line I'd apply to LC in particular: he's an old school Syndicat. The trend of claiming masons on Day 1 is a strange new custom we're not used to here. So I don't look at it as a routine thing for him to do. I just thought the post suggested he was coming at the thread from a place of ease, not straining to integrate himself. A vague impression, but an impression nonetheless.

I thought his response to the suspicion was snarky but laidback. I didn't mind. Scum LC doesn't get rattled by early Day 1 pressure.

do I get credit as the person who started the trend of claiming masons d1 due to making friends and enemies, or did that sprout from the mac/nook meme

[Alison]

tsp town lean

have not seen anything yet that makes me retract my scumread of him early because he was jumping all over the place without much thoughtfulness in the way he does when he's scum trying to mimic his twitchy town style (see mysterious universe)

alison townread removed

why

I don't think this is a good read and alison is supposed to make good reads. And OMGUS and all that.

but I was scumreading you since d0

why did you have the townread on me at all if that was the reason

[Alison]

ok I just saw that epi pipboy post and I think it's either a post restriction or a gimmick

either way he's cleared up my concern about him

[TonyStarkPrime]

On day 0 I had four posts and reasonably your read is like wrong but okay fine. And also, it's day 0.

and also I forgot

[TonyStarkPrime]

ok I just saw that epi pipboy post and I think it's either a post restriction or a gimmick

either way he's cleared up my concern about him

Back to alison town

[Alison]

ok I just saw that epi pipboy post and I think it's either a post restriction or a gimmick

either way he's cleared up my concern about him

Back to alison town

for?

[TonyStarkPrime]

I'll leave this one as an exercise for the reader.

[Alison]

On day 0 I had four posts and reasonably your read is like wrong but okay fine. And also, it's day 0.

and also I forgot

alison is very well known for having all her early reads be not serious at all

oh wait, that's the opposite of what alison is well known for

[TonyStarkPrime]

I do not think "Alison" and also "her early reads are very serious" to be honest

[Alison]

Like I think Esooa's scumread of LC is contrived and then the fact that they move from that to an associative scumread of Sloonei for townreading LC feels even more contrived

think this particular behavior is NAI for esooa

[Alison]

Hi all-- I am catching up and hope to keep up throughout the game going forward. This school year has proven especially challenging for us teachers this year, so I will do my best. I'm glad to see new faces and some old friends. <3

Hey guys, metadiving is a huge PITA and so is figuring out whether NAI playstyle stuff is actually NAI playstyle stuff or not, so everyone gimme some playstyle cliffnotes. Here are mine.

Pros: Bunch o' stuff.
Cons: Can't brown nose for shit. Can't PR read for shit.
Gameplan: Make bad reads until I can make good reads.
Misc.: *deep inhale*

The shortest cycle length ever to be run on my home site was one 3/1 game, and most cycle lengths are things like 10/2 and 14/2, so TS cycles are definitely pretty fast for me. I've played a few 2/1 games on MU, so I can still keep up with reading for sure, and I can still make reads for sure, but don't expect me to highpost unless I really want to. For the same reason, I'm not so experienced with the live interaction side of this time format, which is something I'm hoping to learn more about.

My home site doesn't have pages, just long scrolls of posts, which actually makes wallposts easier to read than quintaposts n stuff. Wallposting is a habit I've been told to break on a couple of sites with actual pages. Will work on that.

Esooa is the only player here that I've played with before (I mean, who hasn't played with Esooa before at this point?), but I'm sorta familiar with spf's playstyle because I read G6. I'm also familiar with the playstyles of some other players here for reasons I can't talk about.

I feel icky about this. I have never liked when folks explain away n00bish behavior or cultural differences when it hasn't been a problem yet.

im gay

You are my friend :3

hey checking in
will come back later

be still my heart

All that talk of trying extra hard huh.

What is your mafia experience? What sort of things will you be looking for on Day 1?

My experience is a bunch of games, most on AoPS, some on MU, and I'm looking for AI posts like a normal person.

What the fresh hell does this mean? Vague on vague on vague. I am not entertained.
[VOTE: C4] aubergine

I think this is town

[Alison]

Do you think baddies usually plan every single action out as a massive manipulation tactic? If you really think this, I have news for you.

[Alison]

I have strong townreads on Dom and Epi.

Sloonei, Esooa and LC are lighter townreads.

TSP, foresight and Mac are my scumreads.

Am caught up to the top of page 10. I'll see if pages 10-12 change anything.

[Alison]

I get the feeling that LC is prob vault city

can you explain why you think LC is exactly vault city?

[Alison]

I get the feeling that LC is prob vault city so idk why he's getting wagonned atm but i said i'd sheep mac so
Poison's reaction to tsp on d0 is +enclave
C4 & spf are enclave

Like literally everyone is enclave except lc

what is vault city and why is LC that

Vault city is a 2nd scumteam that is kinda bad but not super bad
Enclave is the primary scumteam and there are allegedly more of them so we should be focusing on that team first
Lc is vc bc c4 voted 4 him

why can't LC be town being voted by scum c4

[Alison]

Sloonei can you remind me why you townread c4 because it's the main concern I have about your posting

I am of the opinion that virtually everything written by SPF this game has been NAI