Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [AMERICA RISES]

[Sloonei]

Can't sleep. Midnight mafia.

I assume your asking for my Sloon tread. Looked good early, but I agree with Mac that his LC and Dom reads look TMI'ey.

have you considered that i'm literally just the best mafia player in the world?

[Alison]

Town: Dom, Epignosis, Esooa, falcon45ca, Long Con, MartinGG99, Sloonei, staypositive friend

Pure null: DaughterOfOmega, DrWilgy, Grogu, Marmot, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Poison, reywaS, Spacedaisy

Mixed: Urist, KZA

Light scum: ChopChop, TonyStarkPrime

Scum: BoKnows, c4e5g3d5, Jackofhearts2005, MacDougall, Rej

[c4e5g3d5]

Alright since you're on riddle me this @Alison

If I, hypothetically, provided a town game of mine where I made this exact kind of read your pushing me for rn, would you put this push in its rightful place in the bin?

[staypositivefriend]

I have caught up. That was less eventful than I thought it would be.

@staypositivefriend could you briefly explain your rej and urist reads?

i summarized my read on rej here - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=738380#p738380. it boils down to him piggybacking the same point that you and dom raised at a fairly opportunistic moment, (that he didn't even seem to fully find scum indicative, since he mentioned that the last person he saw do that specific thing was town), and then maintaining that exact same read 30ish~ hours later without seeming to make any strides to develop or expand upon his concerns. pairing that with him asking questions that go nowhere, and him outing a townread on you and dom that felt generic in a suspicious way (ie: "i am pinged the least by them") and in a way that would fit with the framework of him trying to pocket you two by piggybacking off of your concerns of me, he fits the profile for a low volume scum player that doesn't know how to get into the game but is trying to give off the impression of solving nonetheless. this isn't a read i feel particularly confident about because his content is so lacking in general

in all honesty, my urist read might be more OMGUS-y than i would like to admit. i really disliked the timing of him choosing to scumread me, and i especially hated him reiterating that exact same scumread after a lengthy period of silence while he chose to ignore my questions, and did not engage w/me directly. i find his confidence hard to swallow in general - i pointed out two posts from him that mildly pinged me last night (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=736928#p736928) and (viewtopic.php?p=736929#p736929), and my concerns were doubled when i noticed that his super confident scumread on long con seemed to have disappeared??? he made no mention of long con in most recent ~list of reads~ (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=737695#p737695) in spite of very much carrying the mindset of: "long con can not be town" in most of his posting before that point

[Alison]

I'm pushing you for a multitude of things so you'd need a lot of town game links

[Esooa]

I mainly TR Falcon, been vibing with em.

Slightly TR Alison or You (whichever one commented on my TWTBW post, you guys are similar so I don’t remember)

TL Urist and SL Tony

kinda think chop is flying solo here. This looks like someone fumbling around in the dark.

moving chop to mixed.

hate this post

[Alison]

I mainly TR Falcon, been vibing with em.

Slightly TR Alison or You (whichever one commented on my TWTBW post, you guys are similar so I don’t remember)

TL Urist and SL Tony

kinda think chop is flying solo here. This looks like someone fumbling around in the dark.

moving chop to mixed.

hate this post

Why

[c4e5g3d5]

I'm pushing you for a multitude of things so you'd need a lot of town game links

Would you stop pushing me for my Martin read? Would you possibly regret ignoring those two posts where I called your issue with my Martin read a playstyle issue?

[Alison]

Re: Urist, he's mixed because all his reads are agreeable to me, and I generally am unconcerned by people who are 100% on the same page as me D1, but I'm not really sure how he's getting there and he doesn't seem super interested in actually talking to people or pushing those reads.

[Alison]

I'm pushing you for a multitude of things so you'd need a lot of town game links

Would you stop pushing me for my Martin read? Would you possibly regret ignoring those two posts where I called your issue with my Martin read a playstyle issue?

I also pushed you for the Dom stuff and the early LAMIST shit. Why are you so desperate to convince someone who isnt voting you that you are town?

[Alison]

There are 6 people who are currently voting to slaughter you in cold blood on the first day of the game. Why are you directing your appeals for clemency to me?

[staypositivefriend]

my vote is on boknows right now in spirit

[Sloonei]

I have not been looking closely at the poll. When did that many people put their votes on Clairvoyant Craig?

[KZA]

KZA

What is this player's read on the one called TonyStarkPrime?

he's acceptable

What about this post then:

Spoiler: show

Scumreading Sloonei is a tactic for keeping him alive until d2 and is therefore NAI

scumreading sloonei is clearly AI

I don't like this post at all

I agree and I don't actually see what prompted TSP to say that

what about that post sloonei

Alison implied a negative read on TSP. You supported and softly bolstered it. You have made no further mention of TSP until directly prompted now, where you say he is "acceptable."

When confronted with this chain of events you play the silly dodging game you've played several other times this game.

So what's up?

Just tell me what you want

[c4e5g3d5]

I'm pushing you for a multitude of things so you'd need a lot of town game links

Would you stop pushing me for my Martin read? Would you possibly regret ignoring those two posts where I called your issue with my Martin read a playstyle issue?

I also pushed you for the Dom stuff and the early LAMIST shit. Why are you so desperate to convince someone who isnt voting you that you are town?

Not particularly desperate to convince a wolf anything. I want to know why you ghosted twice when I brought up this particular point twice. I can show it was a valid point that you ignored. I can demonstrate that deliberately ignoring a valid point is scummy, especially when, with some more evidence, I can show it was hypocritical and done in guilty conscience.

[Sloonei]

I have caught up. That was less eventful than I thought it would be.

@staypositivefriend could you briefly explain your rej and urist reads?

i summarized my read on rej here - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=738380#p738380. it boils down to him piggybacking the same point that you and dom raised at a fairly opportunistic moment, (that he didn't even seem to fully find scum indicative, since he mentioned that the last person he saw do that specific thing was town), and then maintaining that exact same read 30ish~ hours later without seeming to make any strides to develop or expand upon his concerns. pairing that with him asking questions that go nowhere, and him outing a townread on you and dom that felt generic in a suspicious way (ie: "i am pinged the least by them") and in a way that would fit with the framework of him trying to pocket you two by piggybacking off of your concerns of me, he fits the profile for a low volume scum player that doesn't know how to get into the game but is trying to give off the impression of solving nonetheless. this isn't a read i feel particularly confident about because his content is so lacking in general

in all honesty, my urist read might be more OMGUS-y than i would like to admit. i really disliked the timing of him choosing to scumread me, and i especially hated him reiterating that exact same scumread after a lengthy period of silence while he chose to ignore my questions, and did not engage w/me directly. i find his confidence hard to swallow in general - i pointed out two posts from him that mildly pinged me last night (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=736928#p736928) and (viewtopic.php?p=736929#p736929), and my concerns were doubled when i noticed that his super confident scumread on long con seemed to have disappeared??? he made no mention of long con in most recent ~list of reads~ (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=737695#p737695) in spite of very much carrying the mindset of: "long con can not be town" in most of his posting before that point

i want to acknowledge that I have internalized this post, I just have no immediate comment and i'm too tired to dive into these two to sort them out myself right now.

[Sloonei]

KZA

What is this player's read on the one called TonyStarkPrime?

he's acceptable

What about this post then:

Spoiler: show

Scumreading Sloonei is a tactic for keeping him alive until d2 and is therefore NAI

scumreading sloonei is clearly AI

I don't like this post at all

I agree and I don't actually see what prompted TSP to say that

what about that post sloonei

Alison implied a negative read on TSP. You supported and softly bolstered it. You have made no further mention of TSP until directly prompted now, where you say he is "acceptable."

When confronted with this chain of events you play the silly dodging game you've played several other times this game.

So what's up?

Just tell me what you want

I want you to tell me what you're thinking about with regards to the game. Particularly how your read on TonyStarkPrime has developed over the last ~12 hours.

[Sloonei]

I'm pushing you for a multitude of things so you'd need a lot of town game links

Would you stop pushing me for my Martin read? Would you possibly regret ignoring those two posts where I called your issue with my Martin read a playstyle issue?

I also pushed you for the Dom stuff and the early LAMIST shit. Why are you so desperate to convince someone who isnt voting you that you are town?

Not particularly desperate to convince a wolf anything. I want to know why you ghosted twice when I brought up this particular point twice. I can show it was a valid point that you ignored. I can demonstrate that deliberately ignoring a valid point is scummy, especially when, with some more evidence, I can show it was hypocritical and done in guilty conscience.

[Alison]

I'm pushing you for a multitude of things so you'd need a lot of town game links

Would you stop pushing me for my Martin read? Would you possibly regret ignoring those two posts where I called your issue with my Martin read a playstyle issue?

I also pushed you for the Dom stuff and the early LAMIST shit. Why are you so desperate to convince someone who isnt voting you that you are town?

Not particularly desperate to convince a wolf anything. I want to know why you ghosted twice when I brought up this particular point twice. I can show it was a valid point that you ignored. I can demonstrate that deliberately ignoring a valid point is scummy, especially when, with some more evidence, I can show it was hypocritical and done in guilty conscience.

i've already addressed that point. It's not a playstyle issue unless your playstyle is making nonsensical and bullshit reads based on flimsy reasoning. So no I didn't ghost anything.

[c4e5g3d5]

I'm pushing you for a multitude of things so you'd need a lot of town game links

Would you stop pushing me for my Martin read? Would you possibly regret ignoring those two posts where I called your issue with my Martin read a playstyle issue?

I also pushed you for the Dom stuff and the early LAMIST shit. Why are you so desperate to convince someone who isnt voting you that you are town?

Not particularly desperate to convince a wolf anything. I want to know why you ghosted twice when I brought up this particular point twice. I can show it was a valid point that you ignored. I can demonstrate that deliberately ignoring a valid point is scummy, especially when, with some more evidence, I can show it was hypocritical and done in guilty conscience.

i've already addressed that point. It's not a playstyle issue unless your playstyle is making nonsensical and bullshit reads based on flimsy reasoning. So no I didn't ghost anything.

Alright well let's call them that for now. Why couldn't that be a playstyle? Don't shit players exist? I refuse to see a response of "guys he's scum" as an actual response to the point.

[Esooa]

I mainly TR Falcon, been vibing with em.

Slightly TR Alison or You (whichever one commented on my TWTBW post, you guys are similar so I don’t remember)

TL Urist and SL Tony

kinda think chop is flying solo here. This looks like someone fumbling around in the dark.

moving chop to mixed.

hate this post

Why

don't really think it's a real or good read

[KZA]

What is this player's read on the one called TonyStarkPrime?

he's acceptable

What about this post then:

Spoiler: show

scumreading sloonei is clearly AI

I don't like this post at all

I agree and I don't actually see what prompted TSP to say that

what about that post sloonei

Alison implied a negative read on TSP. You supported and softly bolstered it. You have made no further mention of TSP until directly prompted now, where you say he is "acceptable."

When confronted with this chain of events you play the silly dodging game you've played several other times this game.

So what's up?

Just tell me what you want

I want you to tell me what you're thinking about with regards to the game. Particularly how your read on TonyStarkPrime has developed over the last ~12 hours.

his post confused me back there because I thought he was talking about himself but then you told me it was about Jack and I said oh whatever and forgot about it

then when you asked me to read him I ISO'd and nothing pinged me so I said he's fine

this is literally as deep as my thoughts have been on D1 sorry I get like this

[Alison]

Alright well let's call them that for now. Why couldn't that be a playstyle? Don't shit players exist? I refuse to see a response of "guys he's scum" as an actual response to the point.

I've had three separate issues with you - your early forced tone, your push on Dom, and your reason for clearing Martin. I find it unconvincing that all of them can be explained away by "well maybe c4 is just a bad town player".

[Alison]

I mainly TR Falcon, been vibing with em.

Slightly TR Alison or You (whichever one commented on my TWTBW post, you guys are similar so I don’t remember)

TL Urist and SL Tony

kinda think chop is flying solo here. This looks like someone fumbling around in the dark.

moving chop to mixed.

hate this post

Why

don't really think it's a real or good read

It's a little like player salad, but instead of sprinkling random names in, they're clinging onto spots of AI that they can anchor on (vibe with falcon, the twtbaw post). I think that clinginess is indicative of being lost and needing those small things you're confident on to help figure out where you're at.

[Sloonei]

Scumreading Sloonei is a tactic for keeping him alive until d2 and is therefore NAI

@KZA how did you interpret this post as TSP talking about himself?

[KZA]

Yeah

[Sloonei]

Not particularly desperate to convince a wolf anything. I want to know why you ghosted twice when I brought up this particular point twice. I can show it was a valid point that you ignored. I can demonstrate that deliberately ignoring a valid point is scummy, especially when, with some more evidence, I can show it was hypocritical and done in guilty conscience.

I am not Alison, but this does not feel like a productive use of your time or energy to me. In my experience, desperate pleas like this one (and it does come off as desperate on some level. Not saying that you personally are desperate here) rarely if ever succeed at convincing anyone of anything. If you are town, the best way for you to demonstrate that would be to continue hunting and solving the game alongside other town players.

I would also caution against accusing others of engaging in unfair rhetorical practices too often. That does not build trust.

[Sloonei]

Yeah

Is Jay charging you a dollar for every word you post in the thread or something?

[KZA]

Yeah

Is Jay charging you a dollar for every word you post in the thread or something?

Oh I thought you were asking if that was the correct post so I said yeah

So if you squint it looks like he's defending himself from someone calling him AI but I don't know if that even happened

Probably not since you said it was about something else and I couldn't find it

[staypositivefriend]

c4's response to pressure reminds me quite a bit of how i can get under pressure too - accusatory and frustrated - especially if i feel like my points are being misunderstood/unacknowledged

i think the core of the source of foresight's frustration today is probably stemming from the feeling that he is being misunderstood - and seeing posts that increase the feeling of: "No One Gets Me" probably makes him double down in that frustration and spend too much time getting caught up in trying to defend himself

maybe he's just a wolf and im getting fooled too easily, but i do think his emotion is genuine. and i do think that specific type of emotion is typically more town indicative than not

[c4e5g3d5]

Not particularly desperate to convince a wolf anything. I want to know why you ghosted twice when I brought up this particular point twice. I can show it was a valid point that you ignored. I can demonstrate that deliberately ignoring a valid point is scummy, especially when, with some more evidence, I can show it was hypocritical and done in guilty conscience.

I am not Alison, but this does not feel like a productive use of your time or energy to me. In my experience, desperate pleas like this one (and it does come off as desperate on some level. Not saying that you personally are desperate here) rarely if ever succeed at convincing anyone of anything. If you are town, the best way for you to demonstrate that would be to continue hunting and solving the game alongside other town players.

I would also caution against accusing others of engaging in unfair rhetorical practices too often. That does not build trust.

Hey I'm gonna die, if not now, in a couple days, so if I wanted to play as pro-town as possible I'd sub out in the hopes of getting someone townier in this slot, but that feels like it would be in even worse spirit. I decided early that I wouldn't be able to clear myself at this rate, so I decided clearing other people was the next best thing I could do. Chop and Martin were my choices, and the rest is history.

I have long given up on making anyone trust me. Even for the people that townread me I am the guy nobody talks about. Call out my defeatism all you want.

[Sloonei]

Not particularly desperate to convince a wolf anything. I want to know why you ghosted twice when I brought up this particular point twice. I can show it was a valid point that you ignored. I can demonstrate that deliberately ignoring a valid point is scummy, especially when, with some more evidence, I can show it was hypocritical and done in guilty conscience.

I am not Alison, but this does not feel like a productive use of your time or energy to me. In my experience, desperate pleas like this one (and it does come off as desperate on some level. Not saying that you personally are desperate here) rarely if ever succeed at convincing anyone of anything. If you are town, the best way for you to demonstrate that would be to continue hunting and solving the game alongside other town players.

I would also caution against accusing others of engaging in unfair rhetorical practices too often. That does not build trust.

Hey I'm gonna die, if not now, in a couple days, so if I wanted to play as pro-town as possible I'd sub out in the hopes of getting someone townier in this slot, but that feels like it would be in even worse spirit. I decided early that I wouldn't be able to clear myself at this rate, so I decided clearing other people was the next best thing I could do. Chop and Martin were my choices, and the rest is history.

I have long given up on making anyone trust me. Even for the people that townread me I am the guy nobody talks about. Call out my defeatism all you want.

This is me calling out your defeatism. I don't know what games are like in your experience, but 'round here we don't pre-ordain anyone for anything on Day 1.

[c4e5g3d5]

Not particularly desperate to convince a wolf anything. I want to know why you ghosted twice when I brought up this particular point twice. I can show it was a valid point that you ignored. I can demonstrate that deliberately ignoring a valid point is scummy, especially when, with some more evidence, I can show it was hypocritical and done in guilty conscience.

I am not Alison, but this does not feel like a productive use of your time or energy to me. In my experience, desperate pleas like this one (and it does come off as desperate on some level. Not saying that you personally are desperate here) rarely if ever succeed at convincing anyone of anything. If you are town, the best way for you to demonstrate that would be to continue hunting and solving the game alongside other town players.

I would also caution against accusing others of engaging in unfair rhetorical practices too often. That does not build trust.

Hey I'm gonna die, if not now, in a couple days, so if I wanted to play as pro-town as possible I'd sub out in the hopes of getting someone townier in this slot, but that feels like it would be in even worse spirit. I decided early that I wouldn't be able to clear myself at this rate, so I decided clearing other people was the next best thing I could do. Chop and Martin were my choices, and the rest is history.

I have long given up on making anyone trust me. Even for the people that townread me I am the guy nobody talks about. Call out my defeatism all you want.

This is me calling out your defeatism. I don't know what games are like in your experience, but 'round here we don't pre-ordain anyone for anything on Day 1.

Cool you chose the pro-town route.

Yes that was totally a big planned RT from the start of course. None of that was real. Totally.

[Sloonei]

Now I'm going to call you out for something else:

I have long given up on making anyone trust me. Even for the people that townread me I am the guy nobody talks about. Call out my defeatism all you want.

If this is so, then what has been the point of your exchange with Alison on this page?

Would you stop pushing me for my Martin read? Would you possibly regret ignoring those two posts where I called your issue with my Martin read a playstyle issue?

Not particularly desperate to convince a wolf anything. I want to know why you ghosted twice when I brought up this particular point twice. I can show it was a valid point that you ignored. I can demonstrate that deliberately ignoring a valid point is scummy, especially when, with some more evidence, I can show it was hypocritical and done in guilty conscience.

You seem to want Alison to see you as honest here. You frame it as a suspicion against her, but the motivation comes across more (to me) as you wanting to be town-read than wanting to catch mafiers.

[Alison]

c4's response to pressure reminds me quite a bit of how i can get under pressure too - accusatory and frustrated - especially if i feel like my points are being misunderstood/unacknowledged

i think the core of the source of foresight's frustration today is probably stemming from the feeling that he is being misunderstood - and seeing posts that increase the feeling of: "No One Gets Me" probably makes him double down in that frustration and spend too much time getting caught up in trying to defend himself

maybe he's just a wolf and im getting fooled too easily, but i do think his emotion is genuine. and i do think that specific type of emotion is typically more town indicative than not

I see variations of this argument every game I play and it has about a ~rand chance to be right

[staypositivefriend]

c4's response to pressure reminds me quite a bit of how i can get under pressure too - accusatory and frustrated - especially if i feel like my points are being misunderstood/unacknowledged

i think the core of the source of foresight's frustration today is probably stemming from the feeling that he is being misunderstood - and seeing posts that increase the feeling of: "No One Gets Me" probably makes him double down in that frustration and spend too much time getting caught up in trying to defend himself

maybe he's just a wolf and im getting fooled too easily, but i do think his emotion is genuine. and i do think that specific type of emotion is typically more town indicative than not

I see variations of this argument every game I play and it has about a ~rand chance to be right

i like those odds!

[c4e5g3d5]

Now I'm going to call you out for something else:

I have long given up on making anyone trust me. Even for the people that townread me I am the guy nobody talks about. Call out my defeatism all you want.

If this is so, then what has been the point of your exchange with Alison on this page?

Would you stop pushing me for my Martin read? Would you possibly regret ignoring those two posts where I called your issue with my Martin read a playstyle issue?

Not particularly desperate to convince a wolf anything. I want to know why you ghosted twice when I brought up this particular point twice. I can show it was a valid point that you ignored. I can demonstrate that deliberately ignoring a valid point is scummy, especially when, with some more evidence, I can show it was hypocritical and done in guilty conscience.

You seem to want Alison to see you as honest here. You frame it as a suspicion against her, but the motivation comes across more (to me) as you wanting to be town-read than wanting to catch mafiers.

Dramatic effect duh.

[Esooa]

Now I'm going to call you out for something else:

I have long given up on making anyone trust me. Even for the people that townread me I am the guy nobody talks about. Call out my defeatism all you want.

If this is so, then what has been the point of your exchange with Alison on this page?

Would you stop pushing me for my Martin read? Would you possibly regret ignoring those two posts where I called your issue with my Martin read a playstyle issue?

Not particularly desperate to convince a wolf anything. I want to know why you ghosted twice when I brought up this particular point twice. I can show it was a valid point that you ignored. I can demonstrate that deliberately ignoring a valid point is scummy, especially when, with some more evidence, I can show it was hypocritical and done in guilty conscience.

You seem to want Alison to see you as honest here. You frame it as a suspicion against her, but the motivation comes across more (to me) as you wanting to be town-read than wanting to catch mafiers.

don't like this post

[Esooa]

posting quippy thoughts btw cause I'm playing league and sometimes reading the thread

[Esooa]

btw I'd like everyone who thinks Mac is scum to say so right now

[staypositivefriend]

btw I'd like everyone who thinks Mac is scum to say so right now

if his game doesn't improve, then he is

[Esooa]

btw I'd like everyone who thinks Mac is scum to say so right now

if his game doesn't improve, then he is

baps you

[staypositivefriend]

[staypositivefriend]

it makes me sad that grogu's presence in this game has been so lowkey

[Esooa]

Jess be honest, are you scum

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

"town core" most overrated concept in mafia, don't @ me

Phighter if you’re going to steal sloonei’s account you should probably be a bit more subtle about it

[Alison]

btw I'd like everyone who thinks Mac is scum to say so right now

so

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Just this one game can I be town cleared without having to put in the frankly unappealing work of clearing myself?

I’m half serious

[Esooa]

btw I'd like everyone who thinks Mac is scum to say so right now

so

are you scum?

[Alison]

btw I'd like everyone who thinks Mac is scum to say so right now

so

are you scum?

no