Game of Champions 2020 [ENDGAME]

[tutuu]

what if alison....

is....

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Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

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Spoiler: show

town

[Alison]

I've protected your tracker and handed out power roles to townies like candy, please cease the fearmongering crap. I just want to collect my win and leave you guys to fighting. I have no reason to or intentions of harming any townies.

Well, yeah, I really do want to believe that. But not sure I can afford to.

if our numbers get low alison could in theory scumside, not out of betrayal but to fulfill her wincon, coz like, lets say last scum is outed, and if we were to yeet them game is over and alison doesnt fulfill her wincon, then she is incentivized to scumside hypthetically

Then help me fulfil my win con early and I'll be out of your hair

[tutuu]

I've protected your tracker and handed out power roles to townies like candy, please cease the fearmongering crap. I just want to collect my win and leave you guys to fighting. I have no reason to or intentions of harming any townies.

Well, yeah, I really do want to believe that. But not sure I can afford to.

if our numbers get low alison could in theory scumside, not out of betrayal but to fulfill her wincon, coz like, lets say last scum is outed, and if we were to yeet them game is over and alison doesnt fulfill her wincon, then she is incentivized to scumside hypthetically

Then help me fulfil my win con early and I'll be out of your hair

yea im thinking - woah slow down dizzy, we might need to suck up to alison and appease to her, dont burn bridges man xD

[Michelle]

can my bargainees please stop suiciding

Heartless comment

[tutuu]

@Hyena why r u voting dizzy?

whats up with u and voting towncore? u voted jpic, u voted dizzy, u said u also want jpic dead? wat?

[tutuu]

im feeling motivated to actually play coz of the hard hits we've been taking this is rly cool

i was messin around earlier coz it was way too easy / boring / lame

but when the shit hits the fan, some people run, and some people stay

and i aint running. i finna rise up to the threat. u know the sleeping lion? lions sleep up to 20 hours a day. i been sleeping, but this annoying mafia fly has woken up. u dont wanna hear my thundering roar cracking thru the savannah, for u shall cower in fear. pussy. yea thats right. i called u a pussy (mafia). what u gonna do? cry?

[Michelle]

We keep suspecting townies, that's why.
And put pressure on them until they give up.
Ted didn't give up until his last post

[Michelle]

im feeling motivated to actually play coz of the hard hits we've been taking this is rly cool

i was messin around earlier coz it was way too easy / boring / lame

but when the shit hits the fan, some people run, and some people stay

and i aint running. i finna rise up to the threat. u know the sleeping lion? lions sleep up to 20 hours a day. i been sleeping, but this annoying mafia fly has woken up. u dont wanna hear my thundering roar cracking thru the savannah, for u shall cower in fear. pussy. yea thats right. i called u a pussy (mafia). what u gonna do? cry?

Amaze me tutuu ^^

[Michelle]

I have to prepare dinner, bbl

[tutuu]

sloonei tried to work up to killing me n1. i was top priority threat for mafia. because they KNOW. they KNOW. the rising phoenix. the power of the dragon. the roaring thunder. that lies dormant inside me. i let myself get demotivated by my teammates as if they opinion matters, i was comparing myself o them and i was giving them credit as if their opinion on how mafia works is law i should abide to. big mistake. its a jungle out here. a savannah, really. lion habitat. no laws here. every person for themselves. strong survive and weak die. i feel the power surging thru my veins as i speak. with every key i press my IQ increases by 1 digit; every keystroke increases my agility and dextrerity imbued by the essence of the amazoness princess i was in my past life, every mouse tap doubles my sex appeal. who the hell do you think i am?

season 1 winner - DWetzel - a nobody
season 2 winner - coolkid - who?
season 3 winner - Whiskeyjack - below average
season 4 winner - Dels - washed up
season 5 winner - GeneralHankerchief - retired
season 6 winner - Beck - overrated
season 7 winner - Sloonei - washed up, retired AND overrated

i am the greatest mafia player of all time and its not even close. it never was close and it never will be. who the hell do u think i am

[Dyslexicon]

@tutuu Here's my point regarding Alison:

She said herself that she was not playing sentimental this game. So that's what I think we also should do.

There is no way for us to know if there are hidden mechanics to Alison's role or wincon. For example, when I was 3p here last time, I had a role that could lock certain people in their rooms. I claimed 3p and shared most of my power. But I didn't share what would happen when I did achieve my wincon, which was that all people I had currently locked up would instantly die at the same time as I left the game. We have no guarantee that this doesn't happen here. And if it does, that fucks us over.

And It's not about sabotaging for Alison. It's just about playing as pro-town as possible. I do want people who get good powers from Alison to accept. But a silencer is not a pro town-role. There's absolutely no reward for town taking that. It would only be from sentimentality and helping Alison achieve her wincon. Which would be great if we had a way to guarantee that she is telling the full truth, but I don't think we have that. But there is no reward. Let's be patient and let's not just make a gamble on there being no harmful mechanics to Alison's role when we don't know this, when we don't have to.

I don't know exactly how many people right now is in a bargain with Alison. But the whole thing sounds pretty ominous to me.

And I know that kind of sucks IF everything is as Alison says. But I just don't know that. I would like other's opinion on this too.

[Dyslexicon]

In other news. Yes. Mechanics has kind of fucked us overs. I have no idea what happened to Wilgy or Made's roles, and why the actions were all fucked. The dumb thing is that I had Made as town this whole game before that whole mech mess appeared. I think it's possible to clear or reasonably clear people from mech. However, clearly things can be manipulated enough that we also get false positives.

If I ever get the time to actually play this game, I'm going into actually try-mode and read all flipped scum. It shouldn't be impossible at all to nail the last or two last scum or however many there are.

[tutuu]

well if she sends me an offer i will ahve the whole day 9 to decide right so i promise to think about it

hopefully the game doesnt get to day 9 and tim just flips mafia here and game ends ;-;

[Alison]

If you're going to argue that Dizzy then you better accept the bargain I gave you because I offered you roleblocker which is pro town. I'm going to offer tutuu silencer tonight regardless. If she doesn't want to accept then I'll have Kyle steal my power and offer something unambiguously townie (eg. protective) to someone unambiguously town. The bargains made by Kyle count towards my win con, so I'll be happy to strike that compromise if you're paranoid.

[Alison]

Kyle can't steal my power today because LC hid me, but he can tomorrow. And Kyle's theft refreshes the role list of what can be offered, so he can choose any power from the list to offer.

[Dyslexicon]

If you're going to argue that Dizzy then you better accept the bargain I gave you because I offered you roleblocker which is pro town. I'm going to offer tutuu silencer tonight regardless. If she doesn't want to accept then I'll have Kyle steal my power and offer something unambiguously townie (eg. protective) to someone unambiguously town. The bargains made by Kyle count towards my win con, so I'll be happy to strike that compromise if you're paranoid.

Do you have a problem with me arguing this from a logical standpoint? Because I think it's pretty logical from a town perspective to be as careful as we can. Does that make sense? I'm not trying to sabotage you.

I was thinking I would accept your offer myself, but I'd really like it if @tutuu didn't. Tutu, I'd rather have a pro-town power in play instead of a useless one. I can accept and you can decline. Does that sound ok?

[tutuu]

ummm yea sure i dont know whats going on, i agree though

[Alison]

If you're going to argue that Dizzy then you better accept the bargain I gave you because I offered you roleblocker which is pro town. I'm going to offer tutuu silencer tonight regardless. If she doesn't want to accept then I'll have Kyle steal my power and offer something unambiguously townie (eg. protective) to someone unambiguously town. The bargains made by Kyle count towards my win con, so I'll be happy to strike that compromise if you're paranoid.

Do you have a problem with me arguing this from a logical standpoint? Because I think it's pretty logical from a town perspective to be as careful as we can. Does that make sense? I'm not trying to sabotage you.

I was thinking I would accept your offer myself, but I'd really like it if @tutuu didn't. Tutu, I'd rather have a pro-town power in play instead of a useless one. I can accept and you can decline. Does that sound ok?

sure. Then Kyle votes me tomorrow, steals my power and uses it to strike a bargain with someone he trusts in exchange for a pro-town power. I am fine with that compromise.

[Alison]

full disclaimer I'm still going to offer it to tutuu because it costs me nothing to do so.

[Long Con]

When I was Gambit Demon, I helped you win. You wouldn't be killing us all, would you?

Maybe we should plan for what happens on a mass death Alison win. Who would be left, and would they be able to carry it to a town victory anyway?

[Kylemii]

kyle stole tim's power and he was told he can kill someone which ended up being a host mistake as told by kyle

so tim could be the curse giver

hyena was tracked to targets that make sense with his graveyard role so i dunno

michelle could be the curse giver. but to be fair we dont know anything about this, who knows if its a standard role

i suppose hollowkatt is a candidate? but in my mind i had something clearing for him

It was only a mistake that I was told that it was a kill

though as things have been going I get more the impression that the implications of the thief thing hasn't been thought through completely. there's been slight inconsistency in what I have and haven't been told about.

[Long Con]

I skipped just the last page. Did anyone claim the Made kill?

[tutuu]

I skipped just the last page. Did anyone claim the Made kill?

he knew that he was cursed by something and deliberately did something that the curse forbid him from doing / saying because he wanted to die and flip to help town push thru faster

its certainly a scum role - this thing that cursed him

[Kylemii]

but who curse made

[Long Con]

Yes, I recall him mentioning that.

I couldn't detect what the curse was compelling him to do/say.

[Justplayingitcool]

But why would scum curse Made, unless he was hit with it really early in the game?

[Justplayingitcool]

god im envious of radishes right about now

[Long Con]

But why would scum curse Made, unless he was hit with it really early in the game?

Maybe the nature of the curse would make it more likely for him to be suspected and yeeted?

[Alison]

When I was Gambit Demon, I helped you win. You wouldn't be killing us all, would you?

Maybe we should plan for what happens on a mass death Alison win. Who would be left, and would they be able to carry it to a town victory anyway?

I won't, my role can't kill. It would be pretty out of flavor for the Gambit Demon and also add unnecessary swing to the setup where half the game is decided based on the 3P essentially kingmaking. I'm just here to get my free win and peace out.

[Long Con]

When I was Gambit Demon, I helped you win. You wouldn't be killing us all, would you?

Maybe we should plan for what happens on a mass death Alison win. Who would be left, and would they be able to carry it to a town victory anyway?

I won't, my role can't kill. It would be pretty out of flavor for the Gambit Demon and also add unnecessary swing to the setup where half the game is decided based on the 3P essentially kingmaking. I'm just here to get my free win and peace out.

I believe it. The negative possibilities coming from you are covered by the idea that we safeguard you from harm with our lives. Your open claim negated the negatives inherent in trusting a demon by taking the demon off the table as a target for any faction.

[Timsup2nothin]

@Timsup2nothin

You mentioned that your vig takes three nights to charge, how come you were able to shoot again? I ignored it when you first revealed this phase because I thought you were doing a gambit

Syn pointed out that a roleblock can be a prevented discharge, and I asked. If you check my ISO you will see the exchange with Syn and notice that I went quiet about the subject. As it turned out, he was right and my laser was fully charged and ready to go so I had a shot on N7.

[Syn]

[VOTE: Tim] aubergine

[Timsup2nothin]

how did made die anyway

I have a theory...

he said he was suicide bombing into tim (right? let me check)

whats ur theory

No, he just suicided, there was no bomb involved.

Yet again, I have done an obviously town sided thing...and yet again you are refusing to re-evaluate. I get "but I have a green check from Kyle so I can just open wolf" but I am really thinking that there is fuckery somewhere in the mech. The more you openwolf the more I think it has to be in that 'greencheck.'

[Michelle]

sloonei tried to work up to killing me n1. i was top priority threat for mafia. because they KNOW. they KNOW. the rising phoenix. the power of the dragon. the roaring thunder. that lies dormant inside me. i let myself get demotivated by my teammates as if they opinion matters, i was comparing myself o them and i was giving them credit as if their opinion on how mafia works is law i should abide to. big mistake. its a jungle out here. a savannah, really. lion habitat. no laws here. every person for themselves. strong survive and weak die. i feel the power surging thru my veins as i speak. with every key i press my IQ increases by 1 digit; every keystroke increases my agility and dextrerity imbued by the essence of the amazoness princess i was in my past life, every mouse tap doubles my sex appeal. who the hell do you think i am?

season 1 winner - DWetzel - a nobody
season 2 winner - coolkid - who?
season 3 winner - Whiskeyjack - below average
season 4 winner - Dels - washed up
season 5 winner - GeneralHankerchief - retired
season 6 winner - Beck - overrated
season 7 winner - Sloonei - washed up, retired AND overrated

i am the greatest mafia player of all time and its not even close. it never was close and it never will be. who the hell do u think i am

How this is this helpful in this game?
If mafia wanted you dead you would be.

[Syn]

how did made die anyway

I have a theory...

he said he was suicide bombing into tim (right? let me check)

whats ur theory

No, he just suicided, there was no bomb involved.

Yet again, I have done an obviously town sided thing...and yet again you are refusing to re-evaluate. I get "but I have a green check from Kyle so I can just open wolf" but I am really thinking that there is fuckery somewhere in the mech. The more you openwolf the more I think it has to be in that 'greencheck.'

silence, wolf

[Michelle]

how did made die anyway

I have a theory...

he said he was suicide bombing into tim (right? let me check)

whats ur theory

No, he just suicided, there was no bomb involved.

Yet again, I have done an obviously town sided thing...and yet again you are refusing to re-evaluate. I get "but I have a green check from Kyle so I can just open wolf" but I am really thinking that there is fuckery somewhere in the mech. The more you openwolf the more I think it has to be in that 'greencheck.'

silence, wolf

How sure are you is Tim?

[Timsup2nothin]

Now that Made is proven villager his read for Tim deserves to be sheeped.
I don't have a reason to consider Tim as villager, I don't remember his interactions with flipped scum, but I will try to check.
Until then
[VOTE: Tim] aubergine

Cool. Totally lacking in logic, but cool.

[Michelle]

@Kylemii what was the answer when you tried to steal from me?

[Michelle]

Now that Made is proven villager his read for Tim deserves to be sheeped.
I don't have a reason to consider Tim as villager, I don't remember his interactions with flipped scum, but I will try to check.
Until then
[VOTE: Tim] aubergine

Cool. Totally lacking in logic, but cool.

If I am wrong, can you proove it? without Ate and explaining what you wouldn't do as wolf and other self meta things?

[Syn]

how did made die anyway

I have a theory...

he said he was suicide bombing into tim (right? let me check)

whats ur theory

No, he just suicided, there was no bomb involved.

Yet again, I have done an obviously town sided thing...and yet again you are refusing to re-evaluate. I get "but I have a green check from Kyle so I can just open wolf" but I am really thinking that there is fuckery somewhere in the mech. The more you openwolf the more I think it has to be in that 'greencheck.'

silence, wolf

How sure are you is Tim?

I've been sure all game.

His power is scum-sided. Everything he does is scum-sided. Everything he says is scum-sided. He's going to respond to this and tell us about how Radishes was his biggest advocate, and funnily enough Radishes is dead and can't weigh in, so Tim's biggest defense is "if I were a wolf" and "follow the dead leader," which is doubly funny when he spent the entire game whining and blubbering that we were taking dead reads into consideration.

[Timsup2nothin]

its interesting that master radish and wilgy's role are both town and work in negative utility with each other

uhh i wonder if there were any other flips that were fake - hope not

I doubt there have been any fake flips

wilgy would have flipped mafia if he used his role from my understanding, and nobody has claimed they were in a btsc other than who hyena has targeted.

what if nook has a similar / the same role as wilgy

what if kyle did in fact not shoot a wolf

If Kyle didn't shoot a wolf then Nanook was the NK and is town. That suggests there could still be two wolves. It suggests pretty strongly that Kyle is one of them, which invalidates your green check. It suggests that Kyle id probably lying about having blocked my shot "to save made" and that w!Kyle blocked my shot to save you, which makes a whole lot more sense since you were the obvious target.

Fortunately, we have plenty of time, so the fact that no one is gonna believe I am anything but the caught wolf trying to save myself doesn't really matter. When you flip me green hopefully Michelle will opt for "so now sheep Tim" just like she went with "so now sheep Made."

[Michelle]

Spoiler: show

its interesting that master radish and wilgy's role are both town and work in negative utility with each other

uhh i wonder if there were any other flips that were fake - hope not

I doubt there have been any fake flips

wilgy would have flipped mafia if he used his role from my understanding, and nobody has claimed they were in a btsc other than who hyena has targeted.

what if nook has a similar / the same role as wilgy

what if kyle did in fact not shoot a wolf

If Kyle didn't shoot a wolf then Nanook was the NK and is town. That suggests there could still be two wolves. It suggests pretty strongly that Kyle is one of them, which invalidates your green check. It suggests that Kyle id probably lying about having blocked my shot "to save made" and that w!Kyle blocked my shot to save you, which makes a whole lot more sense since you were the obvious target.

Fortunately, we have plenty of time, so the fact that no one is gonna believe I am anything but the caught wolf trying to save myself doesn't really matter. When you flip me green hopefully Michelle will opt for "so now sheep Tim" just like she went with "so now sheep Made."

I don't think we have plenty of time... if anyone who tries to save himself is considered wolf we already made this mistake twice in a row.
I wish everyone to be active and search for evidence in the first days, the answer is in the thread but it's so damn huge..

[Timsup2nothin]

In other news. Yes. Mechanics has kind of fucked us overs. I have no idea what happened to Wilgy or Made's roles, and why the actions were all fucked. The dumb thing is that I had Made as town this whole game before that whole mech mess appeared. I think it's possible to clear or reasonably clear people from mech. However, clearly things can be manipulated enough that we also get false positives.

If I ever get the time to actually play this game, I'm going into actually try-mode and read all flipped scum. It shouldn't be impossible at all to nail the last or two last scum or however many there are.

The key to reading mechanics is to look at how people use them, not the actual results. I have fired three shots that anyone can objectively look at and say "that was the best shot a towny could take at the time." No one has expressed any doubt that I took the shots I claimed, ever.

I made the case to Made as to why his suicide was the best play for town if he was town. It was a good case. Made was going to eat the chop, putting the next kill in the wolves hands. Instead he opted out, putting the next kill in towns hands instead. If I am the wolf, I want the kill in my hands. The kill in towns hands is liable to be used on me. How dumb do you think I am?

I am just flat out the towniest town to ever town...not because I "make towny sounding posts" but because I have actually DONE towny things.

So, notice how all of a sudden when I say "there's fuckery in the mech, and that fuckery is that Nanook's flip makes no sense" all of a sudden mighty Tutuu, queen lion of the savannah, has suddenly sprung to life...and wants to kill me. Yes, she has once again been stirred by the pesky fly. But the fly is me, and I am town. Tutuu wants this game to be a game of fuckery in the mech, not a game of actually looking at what people do and why.

[VOTE: Tutuu] aubergine

Sheep me when I'm dead y'all. Tim-Tutuu-Kyle is the winning chop order. I'm not even asking you to trust me.

[Michelle]

Tutuu is bad for using that flashy emote

[Timsup2nothin]

I skipped just the last page. Did anyone claim the Made kill?

Made suicided. I openly talked him into it. It was the town sided thing for him to do here.

[Michelle]

I don't need to trust Tim, I trust myself
If anyone wants a case I can post a novel
[VOTE: tutuu] aubergine

[Michelle]

Vote in the poll too Tim

[Timsup2nothin]

But why would scum curse Made, unless he was hit with it really early in the game?

The curse was probably just from the mods because he had somehow abused his powers.

[Michelle]

I skipped just the last page. Did anyone claim the Made kill?

Made suicided. I openly talked him into it. It was the town sided thing for him to do here.

The vote in the poll is the vote counted

[Timsup2nothin]

Now that Made is proven villager his read for Tim deserves to be sheeped.
I don't have a reason to consider Tim as villager, I don't remember his interactions with flipped scum, but I will try to check.
Until then
[VOTE: Tim] aubergine

Cool. Totally lacking in logic, but cool.

If I am wrong, can you proove it? without Ate and explaining what you wouldn't do as wolf and other self meta things?

Nope. My entire case revolves around having used my vig shots in totally town sided ways and having talked Made into a totally town sided suicide. If you wanna say "wolf Tim would do all those things just for WIFOM" I genuinely have no argument, because maybe I would if I was a wolf. If you genuinely believe that I am that good as a wolf, then kill me. I'm actually fine with that, because I think I have presented the solve that makes sense, and once I flip green town can either sheep it or not as they choose.