Game of Champions 2020 [ENDGAME]

[Hyena]

Wait, is Dizzy one of Alison's bargainees?

yes

roleblock

So, then, Dizzy isn't an option if we're trying to help Alison, right?

[Michelle]

Wait, is Dizzy one of Alison's bargainees?

yes

roleblock

So, then, Dizzy isn't an option if we're trying to help Alison, right?

Yes
All the confirmes players are Alison's clients

[Michelle]

She posted her own math, i am too tired rn to recheck it

[Hyena]

If you exe a non bargainee and hit mafia, I lose 4/4, unless tutuu accepts my bargain.

If you no exe and mafia kills a bargainee, and they're outed tomorrow like has been planned, I lose 3/4 even if mafia is a non-bargainee.

If you no exe and mafia kills a non bargainee and is outed, I win 4/3 if they're a non bargainee.

If you exe a non bargainee and hit town, and mafia kills a non bargainee, I win 4/3.

If you exe a non bargainee and hit town and mafia kills a bargainee I lose.

So no matter what I should rand my protect between bargainees (probably weighted by how juicy a kill they are for mafia) tonight. If tutuu would kindly accept my bargain, I have more assurance of winning, otherwise my win condition is essentially determined by the actions of other people (if you choose to exe/nightkill bargainees or non bargainees)

@Michelle is this the one you're talking about?

[Michelle]

Yes

[Justplayingitcool]

As funny as it would be to hero shoot, I think shooting in the PoE is probably better.

Out of all the "confirmed" people in the game, here is who I trust from most to least

Kyle
tutuu
dizzy
lc

[Justplayingitcool]

Apart from just being obv town the most concrete reason based on facts in the thread is this:

For me to be scum you would have to believe that
- I have a 1-shot super protect role as mafia. This role is confirmed via Wilgy.
- I used that 1-shot protect on Nutella, confirmed town and likely to be a target N3. It’s confirmed that I did this via Martin, since his actions was half disrupted. Only my action could have done that.
- If your argument then is “you targeted Nut to gain town cred”, then that is impossible. I would not know at all that my role would interact with Martin in the way it did and thus be able to confirm that I targeted Nut indeed. That was pure coincidence.
- I claimed my role partly immediately when Martin explained what had happened to his actions. I did this because I knew this meant Martin was telling the truth and it cleared him for me. Martin was getting heat in the thread at that time and I outed my info only to back up Martin who I strongly believed to be town. I would have absolutely no incentive or need to do that as mafia, but every incentive to do it as town. (We also know some mafia tried to go for Martin as an easy target, which was in fact one of the things that ticked me off about Sloonei, who I felt should know better.
- Today I’ve come in with info that I believe clears two players reasonably (jpic and Michelle). I gave Michelle the opportunity to lie (if mafia) or tell the truth. She chose neither, but I feel she could’ve used her role to kill our outed cop or something at an earlier point in any case, and I’ve liked her handling of it. Jpic can only be mafia with someone who did the kill instead of him. Very very unlikely imo.
- I came up with a plan that would actually lock the game in a win AND give us control over Alison while at the same time allowing her to win if she is telling the full truth. Turns out it doesn’t work because mafia can holster (rip), but the intent should be clear.

If anyone cares. Actually they should. And explain around it if they still want to “scum read” me. That I’ve seen three people mention I’m top suspect is abysmal. I’m a pretty likely NK target because of the block if game doesn’t end. I would like to plan who I block with the whole of town, but I can’t because of this new plan. Would still like opinions on who I should block.

@Hyena - please provide your counterpoints on why you think dizzy is scum

[Dyslexicon]

Inb4 Alison/Tutu 3p team.

Tinfoils getting tinfoilier.

This ^ is why I keep suspecting you. You made the same post ("getting cold feet") on Tim and 112 before they flipped non-mafia.

Yeah, so then now you’ve met me. Hi.
If you paid attention you could town me. Your choice

[Hyena]

Apart from just being obv town the most concrete reason based on facts in the thread is this:

For me to be scum you would have to believe that
- I have a 1-shot super protect role as mafia. This role is confirmed via Wilgy.
- I used that 1-shot protect on Nutella, confirmed town and likely to be a target N3. It’s confirmed that I did this via Martin, since his actions was half disrupted. Only my action could have done that.
- If your argument then is “you targeted Nut to gain town cred”, then that is impossible. I would not know at all that my role would interact with Martin in the way it did and thus be able to confirm that I targeted Nut indeed. That was pure coincidence.
- I claimed my role partly immediately when Martin explained what had happened to his actions. I did this because I knew this meant Martin was telling the truth and it cleared him for me. Martin was getting heat in the thread at that time and I outed my info only to back up Martin who I strongly believed to be town. I would have absolutely no incentive or need to do that as mafia, but every incentive to do it as town. (We also know some mafia tried to go for Martin as an easy target, which was in fact one of the things that ticked me off about Sloonei, who I felt should know better.
- Today I’ve come in with info that I believe clears two players reasonably (jpic and Michelle). I gave Michelle the opportunity to lie (if mafia) or tell the truth. She chose neither, but I feel she could’ve used her role to kill our outed cop or something at an earlier point in any case, and I’ve liked her handling of it. Jpic can only be mafia with someone who did the kill instead of him. Very very unlikely imo.
- I came up with a plan that would actually lock the game in a win AND give us control over Alison while at the same time allowing her to win if she is telling the full truth. Turns out it doesn’t work because mafia can holster (rip), but the intent should be clear.

If anyone cares. Actually they should. And explain around it if they still want to “scum read” me. That I’ve seen three people mention I’m top suspect is abysmal. I’m a pretty likely NK target because of the block if game doesn’t end. I would like to plan who I block with the whole of town, but I can’t because of this new plan. Would still like opinions on who I should block.

@Hyena - please provide your counterpoints on why you think dizzy is scum

Why? I'm getting chopped today if Michelle doesn't hero shoot. And, by the looks of it, Alison doesn't want to go after Dizzy anyway, soooo we're going with my original plan of Michelle shooting me and Syn using my ability to clear himself.

[Hyena]

Inb4 Alison/Tutu 3p team.

Tinfoils getting tinfoilier.

This ^ is why I keep suspecting you. You made the same post ("getting cold feet") on Tim and 112 before they flipped non-mafia.

Yeah, so then now you’ve met me. Hi.
If you paid attention you could town me. Your choice

It doesn't matter. My plan is that I'm dying today so that my role gets confirmed, then Syn uses my ability tonight to get confirmed via track.

[Michelle]

As funny as it would be to hero shoot, I think shooting in the PoE is probably better.

Out of all the "confirmed" people in the game, here is who I trust from most to least

Kyle
tutuu
dizzy
lc

There is no such thing as fun in the hero shot I would want, but I want it to be in fact a consensus shot of Syn, Hyena, you and me.

[Justplayingitcool]

Apart from just being obv town the most concrete reason based on facts in the thread is this:

For me to be scum you would have to believe that
- I have a 1-shot super protect role as mafia. This role is confirmed via Wilgy.
- I used that 1-shot protect on Nutella, confirmed town and likely to be a target N3. It’s confirmed that I did this via Martin, since his actions was half disrupted. Only my action could have done that.
- If your argument then is “you targeted Nut to gain town cred”, then that is impossible. I would not know at all that my role would interact with Martin in the way it did and thus be able to confirm that I targeted Nut indeed. That was pure coincidence.
- I claimed my role partly immediately when Martin explained what had happened to his actions. I did this because I knew this meant Martin was telling the truth and it cleared him for me. Martin was getting heat in the thread at that time and I outed my info only to back up Martin who I strongly believed to be town. I would have absolutely no incentive or need to do that as mafia, but every incentive to do it as town. (We also know some mafia tried to go for Martin as an easy target, which was in fact one of the things that ticked me off about Sloonei, who I felt should know better.
- Today I’ve come in with info that I believe clears two players reasonably (jpic and Michelle). I gave Michelle the opportunity to lie (if mafia) or tell the truth. She chose neither, but I feel she could’ve used her role to kill our outed cop or something at an earlier point in any case, and I’ve liked her handling of it. Jpic can only be mafia with someone who did the kill instead of him. Very very unlikely imo.
- I came up with a plan that would actually lock the game in a win AND give us control over Alison while at the same time allowing her to win if she is telling the full truth. Turns out it doesn’t work because mafia can holster (rip), but the intent should be clear.

If anyone cares. Actually they should. And explain around it if they still want to “scum read” me. That I’ve seen three people mention I’m top suspect is abysmal. I’m a pretty likely NK target because of the block if game doesn’t end. I would like to plan who I block with the whole of town, but I can’t because of this new plan. Would still like opinions on who I should block.

@Hyena - please provide your counterpoints on why you think dizzy is scum

Why? I'm getting chopped today if Michelle doesn't hero shoot. And, by the looks of it, Alison doesn't want to go after Dizzy anyway, soooo we're going with my original plan of Michelle shooting me and Syn using my ability to clear himself.

Because if you're town then I will read your words carefully

[Justplayingitcool]

And by that, if you flip town and I am alive to tell the tale, then I will take into consideration

[Hyena]

As funny as it would be to hero shoot, I think shooting in the PoE is probably better.

Out of all the "confirmed" people in the game, here is who I trust from most to least

Kyle
tutuu
dizzy
lc

There is no such thing as fun in the hero shot I would want, but I want it to be in fact a consensus shot of Syn, Hyena, you and me.

Just stick to chopping me, Michelle. To help Alison, we'd need to chop one of me, Syn, you, or JPIC -- otherwise we'd be chopping a bargainee. If this is the case, then I still maintain I'm the better shot over Syn because 1.) my role would get confirmed by it, and 2.) Syn would be able to clear himself the same way I said I'd be able to clear myself earlier if we had chopped Syn.

[Justplayingitcool]

As funny as it would be to hero shoot, I think shooting in the PoE is probably better.

Out of all the "confirmed" people in the game, here is who I trust from most to least

Kyle
tutuu
dizzy
lc

There is no such thing as fun in the hero shot I would want, but I want it to be in fact a consensus shot of Syn, Hyena, you and me.

hyena would be the safe choice

but if I made a hero shot it would be LC

[Hyena]

And by that, if you flip town and I am alive to tell the tale, then I will take into consideration

I've already stated countless times why I think Dizzy is scum. You have to ignore the mechanics.

[Dyslexicon]

Not totally caught up. But hold the phone.

No. We are not killing Hyena. I strongly believe they are town. Do not do it.

LC saying that Hyena's plan clears Syn is absolutely wrong! It doesn't at all. Where did that come from?

Obviously, mafia can kill and use an action at the same time, that is totally normal in every game, and we know Ted did that.

If LC should track someone the only logical thing to do is for that person to NOT MAKE AN ACTION. Only that way can they be cleared.

Hello???

[Justplayingitcool]

And by that, if you flip town and I am alive to tell the tale, then I will take into consideration

I've already stated countless times why I think Dizzy is scum. You have to ignore the mechanics.

Just say it again for me please, and counteracting each point

[Dyslexicon]

Hyena is town. @Michelle Do not kill Hyena please-

Hyena holy shit can you just stop. If not just stop talking about me at all and vote me. It hurts my eyes.

[Hyena]

Not totally caught up. But hold the phone.

No. We are not killing Hyena. I strongly believe they are town. Do not do it.

LC saying that Hyena's plan clears Syn is absolutely wrong! It doesn't at all. Where did that come from?

Obviously, mafia can kill and use an action at the same time, that is totally normal in every game, and we know Ted did that.

If LC should track someone the only logical thing to do is for that person to NOT MAKE AN ACTION. Only that way can they be cleared.

Hello???

If you don't chop me today, I'm not hearing any sort of argument from you that I'm possibly scum tomorrow or thereafter. I'm done being the designated last chop needed for mafia to win. Either do it now, or never.

[Syn]

oh no Hyena's using my own words to build their own chop-me case

[Hyena]

And by that, if you flip town and I am alive to tell the tale, then I will take into consideration

I've already stated countless times why I think Dizzy is scum. You have to ignore the mechanics.

Just say it again for me please, and counteracting each point

I'm not going to. I told you that I'm tired and that I'm out of energy trying to push my reads.

[Dyslexicon]

It doesn't matter why Hyena thinks I'm scum. They just made it up for themselves and it's stuck. It happens. But I think they believe it. I really really don't read Hyena as scum here when they are trying to come up with a (logically extremely flawed) plan to try and clear Syn and trying to die themselves. They aren't scum.

I'm going to read more and see how Syn reacts to this.

[Michelle]

Okay, so Hyena is?
@Hyena @Justplayingitcool @Syn
I will submit if you confirm and go to bed.

Dizzy. give a big thanks to Alison, my scum team is you and tutuu or Long Con and tutuu. Because you realised i am town only after you understood my power of today, i take it as pocketing. Or maybe is you and LC

Inb4 tutuu, Alison, kyle, LC and Dizzy are forming the second mafia team and Ted was the last of his team.
In this case we lost long ago

[Hyena]

It doesn't matter why Hyena thinks I'm scum. They just made it up for themselves and it's stuck. It happens. But I think they believe it. I really really don't read Hyena as scum here when they are trying to come up with a (logically extremely flawed) plan to try and clear Syn and trying to die themselves. They aren't scum.

I'm going to read more and see how Syn reacts to this.

How is it logically flawed? Explain it to me.

[Kylemii]

secret dambit demon team

[Dyslexicon]

Not totally caught up. But hold the phone.

No. We are not killing Hyena. I strongly believe they are town. Do not do it.

LC saying that Hyena's plan clears Syn is absolutely wrong! It doesn't at all. Where did that come from?

Obviously, mafia can kill and use an action at the same time, that is totally normal in every game, and we know Ted did that.

If LC should track someone the only logical thing to do is for that person to NOT MAKE AN ACTION. Only that way can they be cleared.

Hello???

If you don't chop me today, I'm not hearing any sort of argument from you that I'm possibly scum tomorrow or thereafter. I'm done being the designated last chop needed for mafia to win. Either do it now, or never.

I'm literally fucking defending you as town here. Either pay attention or realise that your opinions are flawed if you're just going to randomly make it up because you just feel that way. That is not solving. Sorry to say.

Your plan to clear Syn doesn't work. @Long Con How did you suppose it would work?

[Justplayingitcool]

Okay, so Hyena is?
@Hyena @Justplayingitcool @Syn
I will submit if you confirm and go to bed.

Dizzy. give a big thanks to Alison, my scum team is you and tutuu or Long Con and tutuu. Because you realised i am town only after you understood my power of today, i take it as pocketing. Or maybe is you and LC

Inb4 tutuu, Alison, kyle, LC and Dizzy are forming the second mafia team and Ted was the last of his team.
In this case we lost long ago

wait until what dizzy says!

[Syn]

yeah wait for dizzy

sorry michelle lol

[Michelle]

Hyena is town. @Michelle Do not kill Hyena please-

Hyena holy shit can you just stop. If not just stop talking about me at all and vote me. It hurts my eyes.

Let me speak with the people I trust please

[Hyena]

It doesn't matter why Hyena thinks I'm scum. They just made it up for themselves and it's stuck. It happens. But I think they believe it. I really really don't read Hyena as scum here when they are trying to come up with a (logically extremely flawed) plan to try and clear Syn and trying to die themselves. They aren't scum.

I'm going to read more and see how Syn reacts to this.

How is it logically flawed? Explain it to me.

Because here's what you're saying -- you're saying the plan I originally had laid out for myself would NOT have cleared myself. If this is the case, why were we originally going to go with it? What's the difference between doing it and Syn doing it outside of the fact that MY ROLE WOULD BE CONFIRMED IF I'M THE ONE THAT'S CHOPPED (which is why letting Syn do it is actually better than me doing it).

[Hyena]

It’s either Hyena or Alison.

I like it when people defend me like this.

[Dyslexicon]

How is it logically flawed? Explain it to me.

Your plan is to give Syn your power, so that Syn can target a dead and alive player and be tracked? Yes?
What good would that do? Syn could kill at the same time as he uses your power. He could kill the "live person" he targets with your power, so double target them so it won't show up on a track.

In any case. He doesn't need your power to be tracked. If we should track someone to clear them they should not do an action at all. Only that would be clearing. If you want to clear Syn: Have him do no action and track him.

You don't need to die for us to track Syn. That doesn't make any sense.

[Hyena]

How is it logically flawed? Explain it to me.

Your plan is to give Syn your power, so that Syn can target a dead and alive player and be tracked? Yes?
What good would that do? Syn could kill at the same time as he uses your power. He could kill the "live person" he targets with your power, so double target them so it won't show up on a track.

In any case. He doesn't need your power to be tracked. If we should track someone to clear them they should not do an action at all. Only that would be clearing. If you want to clear Syn: Have him do no action and track him.

You don't need to die for us to track Syn. That doesn't make any sense.

I thought mafia can't kill if they use their ability instead? Isn't that why we've been trying to use the tracker to clear town?

[Syn]

How is it logically flawed? Explain it to me.

Your plan is to give Syn your power, so that Syn can target a dead and alive player and be tracked? Yes?
What good would that do? Syn could kill at the same time as he uses your power. He could kill the "live person" he targets with your power, so double target them so it won't show up on a track.

In any case. He doesn't need your power to be tracked. If we should track someone to clear them they should not do an action at all. Only that would be clearing. If you want to clear Syn: Have him do no action and track him.

You don't need to die for us to track Syn. That doesn't make any sense.

that's why I'd be giving a chat to LC in this scenario

LC can't die

[Dyslexicon]

It’s either Hyena or Alison.

I like it when people defend me like this.

This is my whole problem. I've said it all the time now jeez. I don't scum read anyone in thread. This is why I'm worried about Alison, but nobody is. You weren't in thread and Syn was insisting on dying, so you were the only one left that made any sense to me (but event that has never sat right with me) When you started posting now, I'm once again convinced you are town.

This is me, I don't care if you don't like it. I change my mind, and now it's crunch time and I believe your reaction here is real. It has never sat right with me that you are scum either. And you have to actually be here in order to be read.

I really don't care to have a discussion with you were you are going to go "gotcha" with me like this because of your "gut" read. I'm very very over it.

[Dyslexicon]

that's why I'd be giving a chat to LC in this scenario

LC can't die

Why? Doesn't Alison leave the game now?

[Dyslexicon]

I thought mafia can't kill if they use their ability instead? Isn't that why we've been trying to use the tracker to clear town?

NO!

[Justplayingitcool]

lol, i still think dizzy is town

[Hyena]

It’s either Hyena or Alison.

I like it when people defend me like this.

This is my whole problem. I've said it all the time now jeez. I don't scum read anyone in thread. This is why I'm worried about Alison, but nobody is. You weren't in thread and Syn was insisting on dying, so you were the only one left that made any sense to me (but event that has never sat right with me) When you started posting now, I'm once again convinced you are town.

This is me, I don't care if you don't like it. I change my mind, and now it's crunch time and I believe your reaction here is real. It has never sat right with me that you are scum either. And you have to actually be here in order to be read.

I really don't care to have a discussion with you were you are going to go "gotcha" with me like this because of your "gut" read. I'm very very over it.

And I said, when I returned to the thread earlier, that I don't have the energy any more to play. What you got this dayphase is what you're going to get the next dayphase and thereafter, if not worse. Thus, if you're suspicious of it now and you're going to be suspicious of it later, then maybe you need to chop me today rather than wait until later.

[Dyslexicon]

lol, i still think dizzy is town

I'm like fucking pissed and in disbelief this is even a question right now. Like for real. I wish I was in a position to have people kill me I'd be so up for that right now.

I don't like the idea of killing Hyena here. If they are scum I suck at reading people, but I really really don't think so.
Killing Syn is hardly a better option. Maybe. I will quickly catch up to his reaction to Hyena taking over for him. It's possible he did a fancy ass play, but to be honest, I feel there are far far more arguments for Syn is just town here.

If I'm lucky, Alison wins and I can say told you so.

I don't know what to do in this scenario. I really don't.

[tutuu]

I dreamt a horrible nightmare about this game that we lost because Poison (who isnt even here) was a hidden mafia while supposedly dead and idk what hapened but i was really angry i also dreamt that the entire site broke and it was impossible to post

[Dyslexicon]

And I said, when I returned to the thread earlier, that I don't have the energy any more to play. What you got this dayphase is what you're going to get the next dayphase and thereafter, if not worse. Thus, if you're suspicious of it now and you're going to be suspicious of it later, then maybe you need to chop me today rather than wait until later.

I'm not suspicious. I'm in fact not suspicious of anyone!

On in thread behaviour only, maaaaybe Tutu. But she is twice green checked.

[Long Con]

If Syn-the-Wolf decided to kill the same player he dead-linked, then that would be incriminating to Syn. Or a giant coincidence. Also that player shouldn't be public.

[Hyena]

lol, i still think dizzy is town

I'm like fucking pissed and in disbelief this is even a question right now. Like for real. I wish I was in a position to have people kill me I'd be so up for that right now.

I don't like the idea of killing Hyena here. If they are scum I suck at reading people, but I really really don't think so.
Killing Syn is hardly a better option. Maybe. I will quickly catch up to his reaction to Hyena taking over for him. It's possible he did a fancy ass play, but to be honest, I feel there are far far more arguments for Syn is just town here.

If I'm lucky, Alison wins and I can say told you so.

I don't know what to do in this scenario. I really don't.

Why don't we just chop Alison? Why aren't we doing this?

[Long Con]

The plan clears Hyena through death and clears Syn trough track.

[Dyslexicon]

Actually, I don't really blame the "scum reads" on me, but I feel everyone should be able to tell how fucking insanely grasping at straws that is. There's a very very very clear line of reasoning why I'm always town here if anyone actually BOTHERS reading it and thinking it through. So if that is the best people can come up with now, then something is seriously fucked here.

[Hyena]

Actually, I don't really blame the "scum reads" on me, but I feel everyone should be able to tell how fucking insanely grasping at straws that is. There's a very very very clear line of reasoning why I'm always town here if anyone actually BOTHERS reading it and thinking it through. So if that is the best people can come up with now, then something is seriously fucked here.

This is what I've been arguing the past two days I feel like. This is why I've been getting frustrated that people have been focusing on mechanics and why I tried to shake the game up last dayphase (or was it the one before that?) by making new towncores. We're going in circles talking about the same things.

[Justplayingitcool]

lol, i still think dizzy is town

I'm like fucking pissed and in disbelief this is even a question right now. Like for real. I wish I was in a position to have people kill me I'd be so up for that right now.

I don't like the idea of killing Hyena here. If they are scum I suck at reading people, but I really really don't think so.
Killing Syn is hardly a better option. Maybe. I will quickly catch up to his reaction to Hyena taking over for him. It's possible he did a fancy ass play, but to be honest, I feel there are far far more arguments for Syn is just town here.

If I'm lucky, Alison wins and I can say told you so.

I don't know what to do in this scenario. I really don't.

Why don't we just chop Alison? Why aren't we doing this?

It would get directed to dizzy, I think? @Michelle can you confirm?

[Dyslexicon]

Why don't we just chop Alison? Why aren't we doing this?

Because most town are apparently more invested in fulfilling Alison's wincon than their own. I have no idea why. I don't think putting your own wincon first is a "dick move"

If we chop Alison I will die too. That is a relief for me. If town can go on without a role blocker, then I'm ok.

Or Michelle could try to use her power on Alison, and maybe I won't die with her, but maybe I will. I don't know.

BUT - I don't know if this is the right option! I don't know. I really have no idea. If LC is town, it's bad, cause Alison can't protect him then.

I just can't for the life of me understand who is scum here. Like what's the case on who? "Dizzy is scum because Hyena had a gut read on a person they didn't know D1 even thought they are literally confirmed town"? "Tutu is overlord godfather?"

Seriously. And I'm not trying to freak out unnecessarily, but this is how it feels for me right now.