Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Alison]

I especially like how he tried to argue that I'm scum because I'm not trying to townclear anyone like 5 posts after questioning my townread on fingersplints.

[Alison]

Is Kyle's first read of the game that Alison is town because she's putting in effort to solve? That's a scummy opener from Kyle.

that was like my 4th or 5th read

What are your first three?

in no particular order, falcon scum, long con town, falcon town, also esooa sus

Why're are you trying to read me by effort?

Also why is Esooa scum?

[Alison]

nanook I know you're Seanzie's teammate but I'll let you coast to endgame on the cred if you help me hang him D1.

[Quin]

also quin, but that was just throwing mud to get him to notice me, rather than for the regular reasons

i always notice you, kyle. i'll never forget fog of love.

[Seanzie]

If you're trying to argue that I'm scum because I'm playing differently from Spank! then you're completely outed. Also if you're desperate enough to try 1v1ing me on page 6 then it means I'm probably right about your team.

I'm arguing that you're scum because you aren't townhunting and you are batting 0. If you want a thunderdome, we can have it out. If you win, everyone gets to see how wrong you are... so you lose.

[Alison]

also quin, but that was just throwing mud to get him to notice me, rather than for the regular reasons

Actually I think this is slightly townie because I think wolf Kyle might try to sell me on the idea that his read on Quin is real whereas town Kyle is more likely to be laidback and "yeah, I'll just hang out with Quin and figure 'em out later".

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

nanook I know you're Seanzie's teammate but I'll let you coast to endgame on the cred if you help me hang him D1.

I literally just said he's mafia

[Kylemii]

also quin, but that was just throwing mud to get him to notice me, rather than for the regular reasons

i always notice you, kyle. i'll never forget fog of love.

i think of you every time the syndicate tries to log me in as "rimworld bros"

[Alison]

If you're trying to argue that I'm scum because I'm playing differently from Spank! then you're completely outed. Also if you're desperate enough to try 1v1ing me on page 6 then it means I'm probably right about your team.

I'm arguing that you're scum because you aren't townhunting and you are batting 0. If you want a thunderdome, we can have it out. If you win, everyone gets to see how wrong you are... so you lose.

I've called bunch of people (LC, c4, fingersplints) town and have openly said that I do not believe nook/Esooa is scum with you two (which means I don't suspect them right now).

You seem to be suspiciously confident that I'm batting 0 when I've expressed scumreads on 3 people and if you're town you should only know the alignments of one of them. Hell, you seem to believe that I'm batting 0 even though one of the people I'm wolfreading is BK, your top scumread until now.

You're lying through your teeth and faking this bravado about the thunderdome.

[Alison]

nanook I know you're Seanzie's teammate but I'll let you coast to endgame on the cred if you help me hang him D1.

I literally just said he's mafia

Yeah I know. I just thought I'd say that anyway. No downside.

[Seanzie]

If you're trying to argue that I'm scum because I'm playing differently from Spank! then you're completely outed. Also if you're desperate enough to try 1v1ing me on page 6 then it means I'm probably right about your team.

I'm arguing that you're scum because you aren't townhunting and you are batting 0. If you want a thunderdome, we can have it out. If you win, everyone gets to see how wrong you are... so you lose.

I've called bunch of people (LC, c4, fingersplints) town and have openly said that I do not believe nook/Esooa is scum with you two (which means I don't suspect them right now).

You seem to be suspiciously confident that I'm batting 0 when I've expressed scumreads on 3 people and if you're town you should only know the alignments of one of them. Hell, you seem to believe that I'm batting 0 even though one of the people I'm wolfreading is BK, your top scumread until now.

You're lying through your teeth and faking this bravado about the thunderdome.

I already explained how you are batting zero, and it is telling that you either didn't read that or don't want to acknowledge it. I specifically asked you if you would still scumread BK if I flipped town, and you said you wouldn't. Your 3 scumreads all revolve around the incorrect idea that I am a wolf. As I already mentioned, if you are correct about BK or Ratrug, it is solely because you lucked into a correct read. I'd still call tha batting 0 since your reasoning doesn't check out. I don't give people points for being lucky.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

We also both know I'm gonna coast no matter what he flips

[Kylemii]

Is Kyle's first read of the game that Alison is town because she's putting in effort to solve? That's a scummy opener from Kyle.

that was like my 4th or 5th read

What are your first three?

in no particular order, falcon scum, long con town, falcon town, also esooa sus

Why're are you trying to read me by effort?

Also why is Esooa scum?

i mean to be frank, seeing you put effort in at all was surprising.

i wouldn't put esooa in a scum bucket, i was just adding them to the list of people i said words about with some nebulous amount of seriousness or lack thereof.

[Kylemii]

Is Kyle's first read of the game that Alison is town because she's putting in effort to solve? That's a scummy opener from Kyle.

that was like my 4th or 5th read

What are your first three?

in no particular order, falcon scum, long con town, falcon town, also esooa sus

Why're are you trying to read me by effort?

Also why is Esooa scum?

i mean to be frank, seeing you put effort in at all was surprising.

i wouldn't put esooa in a scum bucket, i was just adding them to the list of people i said words about with some nebulous amount of seriousness or lack thereof.

[Kylemii]

that's not to imply i don't think you normally put in effort, but more like... my most formative experience with you was GoC, and my vote on you was with that in mind

[Seanzie]

If you're trying to argue that I'm scum because I'm playing differently from Spank! then you're completely outed. Also if you're desperate enough to try 1v1ing me on page 6 then it means I'm probably right about your team.

I'm arguing that you're scum because you aren't townhunting and you are batting 0. If you want a thunderdome, we can have it out. If you win, everyone gets to see how wrong you are... so you lose.

I've called bunch of people (LC, c4, fingersplints) town and have openly said that I do not believe nook/Esooa is scum with you two (which means I don't suspect them right now).

You seem to be suspiciously confident that I'm batting 0 when I've expressed scumreads on 3 people and if you're town you should only know the alignments of one of them. Hell, you seem to believe that I'm batting 0 even though one of the people I'm wolfreading is BK, your top scumread until now.

You're lying through your teeth and faking this bravado about the thunderdome.

Your read on Fingersplints is bad (comfortable in thread after being afk most of D1? sure...), and you already know the avenue my brain is going with regards to you and LC. I don't remember your English Opening read, so I'll go back and look at that, but there is a stark contrast here between how you played in Spank! vs this game. Calling me "outed" for pointing that out doesn't do you any favors btw.

[Alison]

I already explained how you are batting zero, and it is telling that you either didn't read that or don't want to acknowledge it. I specifically asked you if you would still scumread BK if I flipped town, and you said you wouldn't. Your 3 scumreads all revolve around the incorrect idea that I am a wolf. As I already mentioned, if you are correct about BK or Ratrug, it is solely because you lucked into a correct read. I'd still call tha batting 0 since your reasoning doesn't check out. I don't give people points for being lucky.

There are two scumtells in this post.

Firstly, Seanzie isn't getting around my charge of TMI - he's just passing the buck down the road. He says that I'm batting zero because I'd believe that BK is town if he flipped town. This is wrong, because it *still* relies on TMI on BK. He's arguing, effectively, that I'm scum because I'm pushing wrong reads. Usually that's a fine read, but it happens after flips. Seanzie is essentially arguing that I should be exed for being wrong on BK before BK even flips. That's not townie behavior - it makes a lot more sense to go "look, if I'm town, then flip BK instantly, and if BK is scum then flip Alison for trying to paint him as town".

Secondly, he's playing word games by trying to argue that if BK/Ratrug are scum I'd have "lucked into a correct read". Leaving aside the fact that this ignores how I've identified scummy behavior from both of those slots that have nothing to do with his alignments, I want you to recall that his primary argument of me being scum was that I'm trying to push wrong reads. If that is what he thinks I am, then "lucking out into a correct read" should have absolutely nothing to do with his read on me. Scum does not luck out into correct reads, because they know the exact alignments of every player in the game. Further more, a scum who gives correct reads "by luck" is essentially admitting the truthful alignments of the wolves - a characterization which is completely at odds with the way he tried to portray me (as scum trying to lead townies down the wrong path).

This man is outed. If you're reading this post and are a townie, I suggest you get on the wagon ASAP for a free red flip.

[Alison]

i mean to be frank, seeing you put effort in at all was surprising.

Why?

[Kylemii]

i mean to be frank, seeing you put effort in at all was surprising.

Why?

explained later

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Seanzie SRing Alison for not doing enough while Kyle TRs her for posting is hilarious

[Alison]

Your read on Fingersplints is bad (comfortable in thread after being afk most of D1? sure...), and you already know the avenue my brain is going with regards to you and LC. I don't remember your English Opening read, so I'll go back and look at that, but there is a stark contrast here between how you played in Spank! vs this game. Calling me "outed" for pointing that out doesn't do you any favors btw.

I played Spank! and this game the exact same. I know because I open most (~90%) of my games like this. Seanzie is making stuff up to try to discredit me.

Please note that Seanzie has expressed no read on fingersplints and as such has no ability to know how good my read on fingersplints is. Once again, he's trying to argue that I'm scum because I'm wrong about all my reads, when if he's town he has no ability to know how wrong those reads are.

The players in this game who have played with Seanzie before have both immediately called him scum. Other people have identified his push on BoKnows as scummy behavior even if they disagree on whether it's W/T or W/W. Calling Seanzie outed is pretty damn reasonable, because it's what he is.

[Alison]

i mean to be frank, seeing you put effort in at all was surprising.

Why?

explained later

I'm not seeing it, quote the post?

[Seanzie]

I already explained how you are batting zero, and it is telling that you either didn't read that or don't want to acknowledge it. I specifically asked you if you would still scumread BK if I flipped town, and you said you wouldn't. Your 3 scumreads all revolve around the incorrect idea that I am a wolf. As I already mentioned, if you are correct about BK or Ratrug, it is solely because you lucked into a correct read. I'd still call tha batting 0 since your reasoning doesn't check out. I don't give people points for being lucky.

There are two scumtells in this post.

Firstly, Seanzie isn't getting around my charge of TMI - he's just passing the buck down the road. He says that I'm batting zero because I'd believe that BK is town if he flipped town. This is wrong, because it *still* relies on TMI on BK. He's arguing, effectively, that I'm scum because I'm pushing wrong reads. Usually that's a fine read, but it happens after flips. Seanzie is essentially arguing that I should be exed for being wrong on BK before BK even flips. That's not townie behavior - it makes a lot more sense to go "look, if I'm town, then flip BK instantly, and if BK is scum then flip Alison for trying to paint him as town".

Secondly, he's playing word games by trying to argue that if BK/Ratrug are scum I'd have "lucked into a correct read". Leaving aside the fact that this ignores how I've identified scummy behavior from both of those slots that have nothing to do with his alignments, I want you to recall that his primary argument of me being scum was that I'm trying to push wrong reads. If that is what he thinks I am, then "lucking out into a correct read" should have absolutely nothing to do with his read on me. Scum does not luck out into correct reads, because they know the exact alignments of every player in the game. Further more, a scum who gives correct reads "by luck" is essentially admitting the truthful alignments of the wolves - a characterization which is completely at odds with the way he tried to portray me (as scum trying to lead townies down the wrong path).

This man is outed. If you're reading this post and are a townie, I suggest you get on the wagon ASAP for a free red flip.

Explained in the original post I made about this, Alison just isn't listening because she is scum. She can't listen and still push her theory.

Tell me about the scummy behavior you've identified for BK. I saw you defend him once, then once you could paint me and him as a team, you flipped on that. Go ahead, quote some posts about that. Also Ratrug. I don't think you really said anything about them other than that they weren't around much.

Can you explain this more? Because If you say "Oh, Y is scum because X is scum", and then we find out that X is town and Y is scum, I still count the read "Y is scum because X is scum" as an incorrect read, and I think any logical person would.

Yeah, so if you're town, you're batting 0, and I don't think you are that poor of a mafia player, so you are probably scum.

[Seanzie]

Seanzie SRing Alison for not doing enough while Kyle TRs her for posting is hilarious

I'm not scumreading her for not doing enough, I'm scumreading her because her process looks completely different than it did in Spank!, and because her reads are off.

[Alison]

Valiant attempt to bait me into a thunderdome to try to gum up the thread with page after page of gish gallops nobody will read. I especially appreciated the part where he accuses me of not reading because he thinks I can be provoked.

My ISO isn't long. The answers are all in there. You can continue banging this drum as long as you want, but everyone in the thread knows you're a wolf.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Seanzie SRing Alison for not doing enough while Kyle TRs her for posting is hilarious

I'm not scumreading her for not doing enough, I'm scumreading her because her process looks completely different than it did in Spank!, and because her reads are off.

Do you think people play/post the same on discord as on a forum?

[Alison]

Also perspective slip on the incorrect read argument because it only applies if the person in question is town and trying to measure accuracy of reads. Also attempt to dismiss any correct reads I have as "just luck" after hyping up my scumreading ability and using it as an integral part of the case against me in his original post.

The case against this guy just keeps piling higher and higher.

[Kylemii]

that's not to imply i don't think you normally put in effort, but more like... my most formative experience with you was GoC, and my vote on you was with that in mind

[Alison]

that's not to imply i don't think you normally put in effort, but more like... my most formative experience with you was GoC, and my vote on you was with that in mind

That was due to special circumstances though.

Anyway I'm gonna go eat dinner and do some other stuff. My stances are pretty clear.

[Kylemii]

from now on i'm just going to policy vote anyone who responds to large posts by color tagging stuff rather than breaking up the quote and making it readable

[Seanzie]

Your read on Fingersplints is bad (comfortable in thread after being afk most of D1? sure...), and you already know the avenue my brain is going with regards to you and LC. I don't remember your English Opening read, so I'll go back and look at that, but there is a stark contrast here between how you played in Spank! vs this game. Calling me "outed" for pointing that out doesn't do you any favors btw.

I played Spank! and this game the exact same. I know because I open most (~90%) of my games like this. Seanzie is making stuff up to try to discredit me.

Please note that Seanzie has expressed no read on fingersplints and as such has no ability to know how good my read on fingersplints is. Once again, he's trying to argue that I'm scum because I'm wrong about all my reads, when if he's town he has no ability to know how wrong those reads are.

The players in this game who have played with Seanzie before have both immediately called him scum. Other people have identified his push on BoKnows as scummy behavior even if they disagree on whether it's W/T or W/W. Calling Seanzie outed is pretty damn reasonable, because it's what he is.

This isn't true. I expressed a null read on FingerSplints, because they haven't done enough to adequately read. Please PLEASE explain how they are "comfortable in the thread"? Please do so, because 6 posts does not scream "comfortable". Everyone else, please note that I brought this up about Alison's FingerSplints read, and she just dodged the subject rather than elaborating on how Finger is "comfortable in the thread".

Nook is the only one in the thread who has played with me for any reasonable number of games, but Nook has never seen me wolf. Everyone else I've played with at most once, so idk who this "both" is, but no one really knows me here, and Nook is the closest person to knowing me. He did call me, scum, I'll give you that, but you called him scum right afterwards, so idk if you saying "nook should be trusted" makes a lot of sense here.

You should elaborate here. Who said this? Some people are scumreading BK because of my interaction with him. I generated readable content from multiple people by pushing BK. Some people definitely got annoyed, but you are jumping here, and trying to make it sound like multiple people thought my push was scummy, when I haven't seen any evidence of this in thread. This is called shade, which is something wolves do.

[Seanzie]

Valiant attempt to bait me into a thunderdome to try to gum up the thread with page after page of gish gallops nobody will read. I especially appreciated the part where he accuses me of not reading because he thinks I can be provoked.

My ISO isn't long. The answers are all in there. You can continue banging this drum as long as you want, but everyone in the thread knows you're a wolf.

Alison is deflecting here, refusing to actually address the points I'm making. Please read what I've posted, and see how she has no defense.

[Kylemii]

i never go back on my word, it's my ninja way [VOTE: seanzie] aubergine

[Seanzie]

Seanzie SRing Alison for not doing enough while Kyle TRs her for posting is hilarious

I'm not scumreading her for not doing enough, I'm scumreading her because her process looks completely different than it did in Spank!, and because her reads are off.

Do you think people play/post the same on discord as on a forum?

No, of course not. I am not reading her differently because of her post-style or anything like that, but because of her process. In Spank! she formed a large towncore, scumread a few people based on probabilistic estimates, cleared a few scumreads as she got updated information about them, and then arrived at a PoE. Here she has thrown a few garbage townreads out, and then immediately started tunneling a team that doesn't exist, and is building her whole world around that team. If she is town, she is just playing poorly here, and while I don't think she is as infaliable as she thinks she is, I think she is better than what I am seeing here. I know I have TMI about myself, but from my perspective, her game is bad right now, probabilistically speaking, unlikely to be coming from a player of her caliber.

[Esooa]

Seanzie SRing Alison for not doing enough while Kyle TRs her for posting is hilarious

half my town read on Alison is for not posting

[Alison]

You wanna know why I'm not bothering to respond to your points? Because I don't need to defend myself against you. You're scummy and everyone knows it. You're trying to bait me into a long drawn out anti town thunderdome, but what you don't understand is that I have no reason to bite. Right now you are butt naked pants on head neon sign flashing mafia, which means I don't have to listen to a word you say, just bury you. Even if you somehow convince the town that I am mafia and get me exed I know this player list well enough to know that you're most likely a goner afterwards, and 1 for 1 with enough evidence to expose your whole team afterwards is a perfectly fine trade in my book.

[Seanzie]

from now on i'm just going to policy vote anyone who responds to large posts by color tagging stuff rather than breaking up the quote and making it readable

Sorry, I try to avoid editing people's quotes as much as I can, since I feel like that is misrepresenting how the person said what they said. I use color-coding to be able to still present the original message as it was presented, while still being able to reply to multiple parts simultaneously. Spaces, paragraphs, line breaks, punctuation all matter in a message, so I try not to artificially change these things if I can avoid it.

[Kylemii]

that's not to imply i don't think you normally put in effort, but more like... my most formative experience with you was GoC, and my vote on you was with that in mind

That was due to special circumstances though.

Anyway I'm gonna go eat dinner and do some other stuff. My stances are pretty clear.

i know, but that's why it stuck out enough to mention, in light of my vote for you. we played a month long game together where you "Luigi wins by doing nothing meme". seeing you here come out the gates swinging, and more importantly making sense, it stands out.

[Alison]

Seanzie SRing Alison for not doing enough while Kyle TRs her for posting is hilarious

half my town read on Alison is for not posting

Elaborate?

[Seanzie]

You wanna know why I'm not bothering to respond to your points? Because I don't need to defend myself against you. You're scummy and everyone knows it. You're trying to bait me into a long drawn out anti town thunderdome, but what you don't understand is that I have no reason to bite. Right now you are butt naked pants on head neon sign flashing mafia, which means I don't have to listen to a word you say, just bury you. Even if you somehow convince the town that I am mafia and get me exed I know this player list well enough to know that you're most likely a goner afterwards, and 1 for 1 with enough evidence to expose your whole team afterwards is a perfectly fine trade in my book.

Would you bet your life on me being mafia? Because I am okay with that. Flip me today, if Alison is okay being flipped tomorrow after I turn up town.

[Esooa]

Seanzie SRing Alison for not doing enough while Kyle TRs her for posting is hilarious

half my town read on Alison is for not posting

Elaborate?

you didn't post for a while SoD

[Alison]

You wanna know why I'm not bothering to respond to your points? Because I don't need to defend myself against you. You're scummy and everyone knows it. You're trying to bait me into a long drawn out anti town thunderdome, but what you don't understand is that I have no reason to bite. Right now you are butt naked pants on head neon sign flashing mafia, which means I don't have to listen to a word you say, just bury you. Even if you somehow convince the town that I am mafia and get me exed I know this player list well enough to know that you're most likely a goner afterwards, and 1 for 1 with enough evidence to expose your whole team afterwards is a perfectly fine trade in my book.

Would you bet your life on me being mafia? Because I am okay with that. Flip me today, if Alison is okay being flipped tomorrow after I turn up town.

I accept. You heard him, pile on for a free pelt. And remember every post from this point on is anti-spew.

[Esooa]

You wanna know why I'm not bothering to respond to your points? Because I don't need to defend myself against you. You're scummy and everyone knows it. You're trying to bait me into a long drawn out anti town thunderdome, but what you don't understand is that I have no reason to bite. Right now you are butt naked pants on head neon sign flashing mafia, which means I don't have to listen to a word you say, just bury you. Even if you somehow convince the town that I am mafia and get me exed I know this player list well enough to know that you're most likely a goner afterwards, and 1 for 1 with enough evidence to expose your whole team afterwards is a perfectly fine trade in my book.

Would you bet your life on me being mafia? Because I am okay with that. Flip me today, if Alison is okay being flipped tomorrow after I turn up town.

this is not the way

[Kylemii]

from now on i'm just going to policy vote anyone who responds to large posts by color tagging stuff rather than breaking up the quote and making it readable

Sorry, I try to avoid editing people's quotes as much as I can, since I feel like that is misrepresenting how the person said what they said. I use color-coding to be able to still present the original message as it was presented, while still being able to reply to multiple parts simultaneously. Spaces, paragraphs, line breaks, punctuation all matter in a message, so I try not to artificially change these things if I can avoid it.

i mean it's absolutely fine, and i think it's just a 'me' problem, i just have trouble reading them and basically find myself skipping over every post formatted like that

[Seanzie]

You wanna know why I'm not bothering to respond to your points? Because I don't need to defend myself against you. You're scummy and everyone knows it. You're trying to bait me into a long drawn out anti town thunderdome, but what you don't understand is that I have no reason to bite. Right now you are butt naked pants on head neon sign flashing mafia, which means I don't have to listen to a word you say, just bury you. Even if you somehow convince the town that I am mafia and get me exed I know this player list well enough to know that you're most likely a goner afterwards, and 1 for 1 with enough evidence to expose your whole team afterwards is a perfectly fine trade in my book.

Would you bet your life on me being mafia? Because I am okay with that. Flip me today, if Alison is okay being flipped tomorrow after I turn up town.

this is not the way

If Alison has stopped defending herself, then she is mafia. If I need to flip to prove that to people, I am okay with it.

[Esooa]

You wanna know why I'm not bothering to respond to your points? Because I don't need to defend myself against you. You're scummy and everyone knows it. You're trying to bait me into a long drawn out anti town thunderdome, but what you don't understand is that I have no reason to bite. Right now you are butt naked pants on head neon sign flashing mafia, which means I don't have to listen to a word you say, just bury you. Even if you somehow convince the town that I am mafia and get me exed I know this player list well enough to know that you're most likely a goner afterwards, and 1 for 1 with enough evidence to expose your whole team afterwards is a perfectly fine trade in my book.

Would you bet your life on me being mafia? Because I am okay with that. Flip me today, if Alison is okay being flipped tomorrow after I turn up town.

this is not the way

If Alison has stopped defending herself, then she is mafia. If I need to flip to prove that to people, I am okay with it.

that is completely incorrect

[Seanzie]

You wanna know why I'm not bothering to respond to your points? Because I don't need to defend myself against you. You're scummy and everyone knows it. You're trying to bait me into a long drawn out anti town thunderdome, but what you don't understand is that I have no reason to bite. Right now you are butt naked pants on head neon sign flashing mafia, which means I don't have to listen to a word you say, just bury you. Even if you somehow convince the town that I am mafia and get me exed I know this player list well enough to know that you're most likely a goner afterwards, and 1 for 1 with enough evidence to expose your whole team afterwards is a perfectly fine trade in my book.

Would you bet your life on me being mafia? Because I am okay with that. Flip me today, if Alison is okay being flipped tomorrow after I turn up town.

I accept. You heard him, pile on for a free pelt. And remember every post from this point on is anti-spew.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

Ngl, I will probably switch this to you before EoD if it would make a difference, but this symbolic gesture confirms that I am game for this plan.

[Kylemii]

Seanzie SRing Alison for not doing enough while Kyle TRs her for posting is hilarious

i mean i bet part of it is that the posts i like of hers are specifically targetting seanzie

[Esooa]

sigh

[Kylemii]

also quin, but that was just throwing mud to get him to notice me, rather than for the regular reasons

i always notice you, kyle. i'll never forget fog of love.

oh shit dude i just remembered fog of love

we never got to finish that we would have won for sure