Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]

[BoKnows]

boknows is sus for not playing along

don't know it sorry

[MartinGG99]

[VOTE: nanook] aubergine

You didn't put your vote in the poll.

[MartinGG99]

We still got 3 town kills before losing the game.

[VOTE: Kyle] aubergine

If its not Kyle then it's prob Nanook imo.

I don't know who to chop at F3 though.

[MartinGG99]

I'm also not convinced that Alison wouldn't vote her scum-buddy on d1 if she were teamed with falcon

[MartinGG99]

I'm also not convinced that Alison wouldn't vote her scum-buddy on d1 if she were teamed with falcon

Especially since she temporarily cleared the whole wagon d2

She only cleared herself because well, if she's town then she knows she's town.

[MartinGG99]

I was thinking for awhile if Alison was taking advantage of it to push the game in a direction favorable for whoever team they were with but since Quin died I've been increasingly finding that Alison is prob town and shouldn't be chopped even at F3.

[MartinGG99]

It also slightly bothers me that Nanook was trying to get FS to shoot Alison. I think in every world though I would want Kyle + Nanook dead before F3 and now that I think about it more I really don't care which goes first here.

[Kylemii]

I still think it's pretty clearly not me. I also somewhat doubt it's nanook. but with that in mind, I think lylo will go smoother without me in it, since defending yourself is considered suspicious, and since most of the reasons to see me as town happened to me rather than because of me.

[MartinGG99]

I still think it's pretty clearly not me. I also somewhat doubt it's nanook. but with that in mind, I think lylo will go smoother without me in it, since defending yourself is considered suspicious, and since most of the reasons to see me as town happened to me rather than because of me.

I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that Falcon could have been self-aware of his own towniness and the mafia could have pushed him for it. As Alison had said, Falcon has (what's regarded by some) a meta of being fairly obviously townie...when he's town.

So I don't really see much value in "what falcon did", I see more value in "what people did wrt Falcon"

[MartinGG99]

I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that Falcon could have been self-aware of his own towniness and the mafia or falcon could have reacted and/or prepared accordingly.

Ebwop.

[Kylemii]

I still think it's pretty clearly not me. I also somewhat doubt it's nanook. but with that in mind, I think lylo will go smoother without me in it, since defending yourself is considered suspicious, and since most of the reasons to see me as town happened to me rather than because of me.

I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that Falcon could have been self-aware of his own towniness and the mafia could have pushed him for it. As Alison had said, Falcon has (what's regarded by some) a meta of being fairly obviously townie...when he's town.

So I don't really see much value in "what falcon did", I see more value in "what people did wrt Falcon"

what are you even talking about here man

[Kylemii]

brother I'm probably going to die regardless, you gotta endeavor to try and say things that make sense so people can try to figure out if you actually believed j was bad or not after I'm dead

[MartinGG99]

brother I'm probably going to die regardless, you gotta endeavor to try and say things that make sense so people can try to figure out if you actually believed j was bad or not after I'm dead

Why would I intentionally say things that don't make sense to me and stuff that I wouldn't believe in?

And why are you at the same time concerned about whether I appear *to others* to believe in it?

[MartinGG99]

I don't think I ever say things that don't make sense to me and therefore I don't believe in

nobody ever really does that and when its mafia its generally that they only don't believe in it

iirc even as mafia I will say arguments that I believe are valid and that I would believe in as town, aside from the fact that I would know that the conclusion is wrong

Someone once attacked me for replicating an argument I made in a past scum game of mine when I was town and they tried to call my push scummy and disingenuous for it

like to that person I'm going to say how stupid do they think I am to push something that I think doesn't make sense nor something that currently I do or would believe in as town

[MartinGG99]

I still think it's pretty clearly not me. I also somewhat doubt it's nanook. but with that in mind, I think lylo will go smoother without me in it, since defending yourself is considered suspicious, and since most of the reasons to see me as town happened to me rather than because of me.

I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that Falcon could have been self-aware of his own towniness and the mafia could have pushed him for it. As Alison had said, Falcon has (what's regarded by some) a meta of being fairly obviously townie...when he's town.

So I don't really see much value in "what falcon did", I see more value in "what people did wrt Falcon"

what are you even talking about here man

To clarify:

I think when scum have a possible or plausible chance to know when "they're going down"

Their behavior can change wrt spew and other things. So I tend to ignore what they do, and so I look at *what people do to them* when that's happening.

I did this earlier on D1 to check if TS was just sheeping the push onto a teammate (if Falcon was scum) but after a small amount of prodding around it I thought he was non-w/w with Falcon.

[MartinGG99]

Falcon could have known or thought he would be obvious scum, and thus changed how he interacted in the thread

Given how Quin seemed to explicitly think everyone's reasons for pushing Falcon were meta-based (even though my and TS's reasons weren't iirc):

okay it's 5:20 and i am still awake and that makes me sad so

i'm caught up.

i'm not voting for alison or seanzie until i've given them both proper reading.

nobody is even talking about falcon beyond meta reads and somehow he's the lead wagon. fuck that.

[VOTE: BK] aubergine because of things i have said early on.

[MartinGG99]

And Long Con's reasons as well too

I don't think that was meta-based either

[Alison]

Day 1 VCA says nook is scum.

I think it's nook or Kyle and nook has been townier imo.

Falcon + Quin piling onto BK implies save attempt. It would be weird to see a mafia member on Falcon D1 given that. Therefore mafia is hiding on a vanity wagon. Nook and Kyle both fit the bill. Kyle was voting Quin, but Quin was never going to die D1 so it's a possible bus. Kyle has better interactions with falcon though while nook just openly defended him. If nook openly defends falcon and mafia were trying to save falcon then my take is that nook probably has more scum equity.

[Alison]

Suppose you are a mafia and you are trying to save falcon. Which wagons are most attractive to you?

#1 wagon is BK. We know two mafia were voting there and the last is flipped town. So that wagon is dealt with. #2 wagon is Ratrug. That's c4 and myself. I know I'm town and c4 is flipped town. So that wagon is dealt with for me. The #3 wagon is Esooa, because there was a small chance Esooa would go over (with BK's vote on her). After that comes the 1-vote pure vanity wagons: Quin and ts account. ts account was being voted by fingersplints so we know that's clean.

I think Esooa is slightly more attractive as a vanity wagon for mafia to rest on. A Quin vote equivalent to a no-vote for mafia, whereas Esooa actually has a chance of going over and saving falcon.

[Kylemii]

brother I'm probably going to die regardless, you gotta endeavor to try and say things that make sense so people can try to figure out if you actually believed j was bad or not after I'm dead

Why would I intentionally say things that don't make sense to me and stuff that I wouldn't believe in?

And why are you at the same time concerned about whether I appear *to others* to believe in it?

to be malicious or just lazy basically

i care how you appear to others because I'm going to be dead at the endgame and if every other player has the excuse of "well my actions during the yeet of kylemii aren't alignment indicative because we all decided to collectively consider him part of the PoE and then jerk off for 72-144 hours" then no one learns anything from the experience

[Kylemii]

I still think it's pretty clearly not me. I also somewhat doubt it's nanook. but with that in mind, I think lylo will go smoother without me in it, since defending yourself is considered suspicious, and since most of the reasons to see me as town happened to me rather than because of me.

I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that Falcon could have been self-aware of his own towniness and the mafia could have pushed him for it. As Alison had said, Falcon has (what's regarded by some) a meta of being fairly obviously townie...when he's town.

So I don't really see much value in "what falcon did", I see more value in "what people did wrt Falcon"

what are you even talking about here man

To clarify:

I think when scum have a possible or plausible chance to know when "they're going down"

Their behavior can change wrt spew and other things. So I tend to ignore what they do, and so I look at *what people do to them* when that's happening.

I did this earlier on D1 to check if TS was just sheeping the push onto a teammate (if Falcon was scum) but after a small amount of prodding around it I thought he was non-w/w with Falcon.

ok but what does that have to do with me?

[Kylemii]

what does it have to do with anything that I said

[Kylemii]

if I were mafia, this game would be a direct analogue to Christmas mafia, a game in which 2 of my teammates went under fire early, and I enthusiastically bussed them asap and then lost due to unrelated mechanical shenanigans that were basically unavoidable.

i had fun distancing from and bussing my teammates in that game, and plotting out a course to victory despite that. I wouldn't be timid about doing so a second time, least of all with Quin who is my eternal Fog of Love partner.

[Kylemii]

and to a lesser extent, Falcon, who I've clashed with mildly in the past like twice

[MartinGG99]

what does it have to do with anything that I said

and since most of the reasons to see me as town happened to me rather than because of me.

You were implying that mafia actions spewed you town.

[MartinGG99]

So the way I see this conversation is

1. You imply that mafia actions or interactions spew you town

2. I dismiss that because I think its possible Falcon and/or quin altered their behavior because they suspected falcon going over was possible

3. You claim that wasn't relevant to you and now you go on to use meta to defend yourself

Am I understanding this correctly or did something happen at #1?

If I'm not misunderstanding then I don't really see much reason to see you town other than to poke Nanook first to see if they have more to say and maybe consider them before you.

But I would like to think I was right on their sheep reason being towny.

[BoKnows]

I still think it's pretty clearly not me. I also somewhat doubt it's nanook. but with that in mind, I think lylo will go smoother without me in it, since defending yourself is considered suspicious, and since most of the reasons to see me as town happened to me rather than because of me.

How is it clear that you're not mafia?

[Esooa]

sorry I haven't been keeping up with this game much, I've been busy

I think Kyle is still towny

[Kylemii]

what does it have to do with anything that I said

and since most of the reasons to see me as town happened to me rather than because of me.

You were implying that mafia actions spewed you town.

that's something that you decided on your own and then you went on a giant rant about how you thought falcon always seems town or something, which is btw not even true in the slightest. I have never seen falcon and thought he was acting extremely towny. the thing that gave me pause here was that he was repeating the same behavior towards me as he portrayed in magic the gathering mafia, which at the time wasn't over yet

[Kylemii]

I still think it's pretty clearly not me. I also somewhat doubt it's nanook. but with that in mind, I think lylo will go smoother without me in it, since defending yourself is considered suspicious, and since most of the reasons to see me as town happened to me rather than because of me.

How is it clear that you're not mafia?

I just am dude. literally every known mafia came at me in a way that I would have reacted to differently if I were on a team with them. Easy to access anecdotal evidence shows that I don't pass up an easy chance to bus teammates when mafia. Quin doesn't come at me with some weird AtE bullshit if we're on the same side, and if he does it's done with consent and enthusiasm from both parties.

ask anyone to come up with a reason why I must be mafia and they won't come up with anything other than "I just don't know anything about him, cus none of his actions seem alignment indicative to me, and/or I haven't read the thread" and that's fine and valid and I accept that I should be gone before lylo for practical reasons but that doesn't make it any less boring.

[Kylemii]

I actually don't know why I'm bothering with all this. no matter what, me and nanook need to get yeeted for the remaining town to take the game seriously again so that's what has to happen regardless, the rest is just semantics.

[MartinGG99]

what does it have to do with anything that I said

and since most of the reasons to see me as town happened to me rather than because of me.

You were implying that mafia actions spewed you town.

that's something that you decided on your own and then you went on a giant rant about how you thought falcon always seems town or something, which is btw not even true in the slightest. I have never seen falcon and thought he was acting extremely towny. the thing that gave me pause here was that he was repeating the same behavior towards me as he portrayed in magic the gathering mafia, which at the time wasn't over yet

You've seen falcon in Shadow Corridors back in November-ish of last year; I was in that game as well:

Players (Snipped most of the list from quote)

falcon45ca Died N3 <-------------------------------------------------------------
Grand Scheme
Joe Who? died Night 8, revealed as Seraph Knight by oracle
Kylemii Died Night 6 <---------------------------------------------------------------

Furthermore; it doesn't exactly matter if you knew him. It matters if Falcon45 was aware and believed in a meta of himself where generally (if he's town) then he looks and appears towny rather easily. If he was concerned about that, and decided to warn his scum teammates (which some scum players do if they don't believe they're the greatest), then you would know about it regardless if you didn't know about Falcon before this game so long as you were his teammate.

The fact that Quin just wrote off all the Falcon45 pushes, where there were 4 or 5 votes on them, as relating to meta (where there was 3 votes he could potentially have challenged or considered since they weren't related to Falcon's meta) suggests to me that its certainly not impossible for Falcon to have warned his team.

As a side note: "giant rant" is a bit of an mischaracterization; if I wanted to rant I could definitely do larger (and definitely more) posts about it.

[Kylemii]

oh my god

[Kylemii]

no one cares, we get it you're in love with falcon

[Kylemii]

and again, what does any of that have to do with me

[Kylemii]

do you legit suspect i'm mafia like for real? like this isn't just a "everyone else seems fine and Kyle's what's left" thing for you?

[Kylemii]

i don't see the connection to "falcon knows his own meta and warned his teammates about it or whatever you said" has to me

[Kylemii]

do you legit suspect i'm mafia like for real? like this isn't just a "everyone else seems fine and Kyle's what's left" thing for you?

@MartinGG99

[MartinGG99]

and again, what does any of that have to do with me

I've explained why Falcon's actions don't prove you town in my point of view.

You haven't explained whether my understanding of you implying that (^^The previous Line^^) was correct; you said that's something I decided on my own and then you didn't give me the correct interpretation of it.

Now, since I've given reasons as to why *Falcon's interactions with you* doesn't really say to me you're town

*your reads of him* for most of D1 doesn't prove you town either and may even be w/w.

falcon is probably town

there is a 56% chance that falcon is town, i put the data into a bee cumputer and the computer spat out a paper thing that said "56% town" so take that to the bank

quote=Kylemii post_id=755947 time=1616042950 user_id=289]

Is Kyle's first read of the game that Alison is town because she's putting in effort to solve? That's a scummy opener from Kyle.

that was like my 4th or 5th read

What are your first three?

in no particular order, falcon scum, long con town, falcon town, also esooa sus
[/quote]

@falcon45ca i forgot to say i love you i don't remember what you said but i remember making a mental note to say that cus you said something nice and i appreciated it thank u for coming to my ted talk

[Kylemii]

i can't tell which things are your words and which are mine

[MartinGG99]

i can't tell which things are your words and which are mine

Then I don't know how to explain this conversation to you in better terms; I can't really simplify it either.

[Kylemii]

those are not the words of a teammate lol

[Kylemii]

i can't tell which things are your words and which are mine

Then I don't know how to explain this conversation to you in better terms; I can't really simplify it either.

maybe simplify it by placing the brackets correctly

[Kylemii]

@MartinGG99 do you legit think i'm mafia? this isn't just a process of elimination thing for you?

[MartinGG99]

Are you on a phone or something? It should appear obvious if it's on a computer.

[Kylemii]

can you answer the question please

[MartinGG99]

@MartinGG99 do you legit think i'm mafia? this isn't just a process of elimination thing for you?

More or less both.

I think Kyle + Nanook die before F3, as I find everyone else much more towny and I have no clear clue who it is if we get to F3 if it isn't one of you guys.

[Kylemii]

@MartinGG99 do you legit think i'm mafia? this isn't just a process of elimination thing for you?

More or less both.

I think Kyle + Nanook die before F3, as I find everyone else much more towny and I have no clear clue who it is if we get to F3 if it isn't one of you guys.

then why are you putting so much effort into this

[MartinGG99]

Much less of an idea if I would be alive at F3.

[MartinGG99]

@MartinGG99 do you legit think i'm mafia? this isn't just a process of elimination thing for you?

More or less both.

I think Kyle + Nanook die before F3, as I find everyone else much more towny and I have no clear clue who it is if we get to F3 if it isn't one of you guys.

then why are you putting so much effort into this

Because you're challenging my claims?

What, am I going to sit here and do nothing and you call me wrong?